Re: Explosion on district line

[e27002 aurora]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:

>Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders chemicals that
>overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545

There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
"the religion of piece" proselytizing.

[Graeme Wall]

Which piece is that?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

[sp...@potato.field]

If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of the
peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.

--
Spud

[Recliner]

It does appear to be terrorism.

[Tim Watts]

Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.

And my money's on some jihadi fucker. We shall see.

[Recliner]

That seems to be the current theory.

[tim...]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:50ms8e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

the device had a timer (apparently)

tim

[Basil Jet]

Maybe LU can find out how one works,
and fit them in their line control offices.

[tim...]

"Basil Jet" <ba...@spamspamspam.com> wrote in message
news:opgpqg$t1h$3...@dont-email.me...

are we meant to understand that comment?

tim

[Charles Ellson]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:47:08 +0100, e27002 aurora <e27...@gmaill.com>
wrote:

You mean the crap Trump has come out with while poking his nose into
our business ?

[Martin Edwards]

Okay, you've got it off your chest. Be it noted that most of the vitims
of these punks are Muslims in Muslim majority countries. The daughters
of my next door neighbour but one call me "Uncle". I do not anticipate
that they will try to blow me up when they are older.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

[Martin Edwards]

Yes.

[Martin Edwards]

An uncle of mine was an army officer and did time against Christian
terrorists in Cyprus.

[Tim Watts]

Which, apparently is a first for jihadi nutters if it is so.

[Graeme Wall]

But not for Irish nutters.

[Recliner]

Martin Edwards <big_m...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 9/15/2017 10:15 AM, Recliner wrote:
>> <sp...@potato.field> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:47:08 +0100
>>> e27002 aurora <e27...@gmaill.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders chemicals that
>>>>> overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545
>>>>
>>>> There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
>>>> flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
>>>> "the religion of piece" proselytizing.
>>>
>>> If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of the
>>> peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.
>>
>> It does appear to be terrorism.
>>
> Yes.

And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

[Tim Watts]

On 16/09/17 09:52, Graeme Wall wrote:

>
> But not for Irish nutters.
>

The use of a timer is not a huge advancement of tech for the alan's
snackbar brigade, but it is unusual that they seem short of willing
martyrs. Assuming it's them and my money says it is (speculation of
course...)

Perhaps they are losing the ability to find dickheads willing to blow
themselves up?

[Graeme Wall]

Not on current evidence, this is the first attack in quite a while that
wasn't a suicide attack.[1] The exception, of course, being North
Ireland where there are still terrorist attacks involving bombs with
either timers or other ways of being detonated that don't involve the
death of the perpetrator.

[1] In fact I can't think of an attack since 911 by Islamic
fundamentalists in Europe/USA that wasn't a suicide attack.

[tim...]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message

news:r6bv8e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

> On 16/09/17 09:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
>
>>
>> But not for Irish nutters.
>>
>
> The use of a timer is not a huge advancement of tech for the alan's
> snackbar brigade, but it is unusual that they seem short of willing
> martyrs. Assuming it's them and my money says it is (speculation of
> course...)

alan's snackbar brigade?

tim

[Recliner]

What about the printer bombs?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot

Or, pre-911, there was the Hindawi attempted bombing that led to the
subsequent additional airport questioning:
https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/

[Tim Watts]

There has been quite a bit of knife waving that has not always resulted
in being shot - thinking of Buck House for one. But yes, it's rare.

I suppose it's just possible the DUP/Tory deal has upset the IRA
splinters, but wouldn't they have access to professional grade explosives?

[Tim Watts]

It's a homophone of a well know phrase jihadi nutters like to shout :)

[Graeme Wall]

On 16/09/2017 12:03, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 16/09/2017 11:32, Tim Watts wrote:
>>> On 16/09/17 09:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But not for Irish nutters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The use of a timer is not a huge advancement of tech for the alan's
>>> snackbar brigade, but it is unusual that they seem short of willing
>>> martyrs. Assuming it's them and my money says it is (speculation of
>>> course...)
>>>
>>> Perhaps they are losing the ability to find dickheads willing to blow
>>> themselves up?
>>
>> Not on current evidence, this is the first attack in quite a while that
>> wasn't a suicide attack.[1] The exception, of course, being North
>> Ireland where there are still terrorist attacks involving bombs with
>> either timers or other ways of being detonated that don't involve the
>> death of the perpetrator.
>>
>> [1] In fact I can't think of an attack since 911 by Islamic
>> fundamentalists in Europe/USA that wasn't a suicide attack.
>
> What about the printer bombs?
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot

Good point, not subsequently attempted again and the perpetrator was
taken out by a crise missile IIRC.

>
> Or, pre-911, there was the Hindawi attempted bombing that led to the
> subsequent additional airport questioning:
> https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/
>

That was very much before 911 but wasn't a suicide attack as such. The
mule didn't know she was intended to be murdered.

[Graeme Wall]

They have other concerns as well.

> but wouldn't they have access to professional grade explosives?

Possibly not these days. Has it been confirmed what the explosive was?

Still most likely to be IS inspired, they've been urging attacks on the
railways for a while now.

[Recliner]

Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/09/2017 12:03, Recliner wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2017 11:32, Tim Watts wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/17 09:52, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But not for Irish nutters.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The use of a timer is not a huge advancement of tech for the alan's
>>>> snackbar brigade, but it is unusual that they seem short of willing
>>>> martyrs. Assuming it's them and my money says it is (speculation of
>>>> course...)
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps they are losing the ability to find dickheads willing to blow
>>>> themselves up?
>>>
>>> Not on current evidence, this is the first attack in quite a while that
>>> wasn't a suicide attack.[1] The exception, of course, being North
>>> Ireland where there are still terrorist attacks involving bombs with
>>> either timers or other ways of being detonated that don't involve the
>>> death of the perpetrator.
>>>
>>> [1] In fact I can't think of an attack since 911 by Islamic
>>> fundamentalists in Europe/USA that wasn't a suicide attack.
>>
>> What about the printer bombs?
>>
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot
>
> Good point, not subsequently attempted again and the perpetrator was
> taken out by a crise missile IIRC.

Or perhaps not?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Asiri#Reports_of_death

>>
>> Or, pre-911, there was the Hindawi attempted bombing that led to the
>> subsequent additional airport questioning:
>> https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/
>>
>
> That was very much before 911 but wasn't a suicide attack as such. The
> mule didn't know she was intended to be murdered.

Yes, and that's why passengers subsequently were asked, "Were you given
anything? And did you pack it yourself?"

[Recliner]

I think the Barcelona cell might also have been planning timer bombs, but
managed to blow themselves up while making them. Even suicidal jihadis
might want to plant more than one bomb each. Another post-911 train timer
bombing was in Madrid:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings

[Graeme Wall]

It was Anwar al-Awlaki I was thinking of as the organiser, rather than
the maker.

>
>
>>>
>>> Or, pre-911, there was the Hindawi attempted bombing that led to the
>>> subsequent additional airport questioning:
>>> https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/
>>>
>>
>> That was very much before 911 but wasn't a suicide attack as such. The
>> mule didn't know she was intended to be murdered.
>
> Yes, and that's why passengers subsequently were asked, "Were you given
> anything? And did you pack it yourself?"
>

Which lead to me making a formal complaint about the attitude of a
certain airline's check in staff (no, not that one). When asked the
statutory question about whether I'd packed my own bag, the female
chimed in before I could reply and said I probably got my wife to do it
as men can't pack their own bags.

[Graeme Wall]

Still intend suicide to get their hands on all those virgins…

Another post-911 train timer
> bombing was in Madrid:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings
>

That is an exception.

[Roland Perry]

In message <opivsl$1sd$2...@dont-email.me>, at 11:54:13 on Sat, 16 Sep
2017, Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>[1] In fact I can't think of an attack since 911 by Islamic
>fundamentalists in Europe/USA that wasn't a suicide attack.

Other than "attempted suicide-by-cop", how would you characterise the
Lee Rigby attack?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message
<92302599.527249949.661658....@news.eternal-septem
ber.org>, at 10:20:13 on Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Recliner
<recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:

>And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.

Trying to get on a ferry?

ObRail: earlier such terrorists did successfully get on a Eurostar in
London.
--
Roland Perry

[Graeme Wall]

One person, after the second tube bombing attempt.

[Graeme Wall]

As suicide by cop, they made no attempt to make a getaway after the murder.

[tim...]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cWPpYvIy...@perry.co.uk...

> In message
> <92302599.527249949.661658....@news.eternal-septem
> ber.org>, at 10:20:13 on Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Recliner
> <recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>
>>And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.
>
> Trying to get on a ferry?

OOI

assuming that he is the actual wanted person and not just some random person
of the correct ethnicity (as in - the Birmingham Six)

I wonder if they identified him as a potential suspect:

a) from a name
b) from facial recognition
c) his general demeanor
d) a failed attempt to travel on false documents

anything else?

tim

[Christopher A. Lee]

Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
they're going to get caught?

[Recliner]

<damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
> <c....@fairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>> It does appear to be terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.
>>
>> Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
>> they're going to get caught?

> It's not guaranteed.
> Most criminals are caught due to having some form of previous
> interaction with the Police and establishing the end of a trail, eg a
> bank robbers trail may have started when he nicked some sweets from a
> corner shop as a 13 year old and became one to watch and whose habits
> and haunts become known.
> With a terrorist the trail may have been started by intelligence
> services observing their coming and goings with other known people
> doing suspicious activity or being seen at certain buildings.
> In both case if the perpetuator of a bank robbery or a terrorist act
> is doing it for absolutely the first time and is a lone wolf it
> becomes much harder, surveillance videos will not help if the person
> in the image cannot be recognized or are disguised unless they happen
> to turn up again elsewhere unguarded.
> There are experts at analyzing videos but as an example of how
> difficult it is to find someone with no previous look at the Jogger
> who pushed the woman into the path of a Bus recently, not even
> disguised, reasonable video from the street and the bus, loads of
> people about.
> They still have not identified anyone enough to bring charges

Indeed, and they've wrongly arrested two innocent joggers so far. You'd
think the jogger should be relatively easy to find, as his home location
can be pinned down to quite a narrow area, and he must have been caught by
many other cameras on his route.

[Basil Jet]

On 2017\09\16 07:54, Martin Edwards wrote:
> On 9/15/2017 10:11 AM, sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>
>> If it is terrorism then it'll almost certainly be down to followers of
>> the
>> peaceful not in any way militant religion of islam.
>

> Okay, you've got it off your chest.  Be it noted that most of the vitims
> of these punks are Muslims in Muslim majority countries.  The daughters
> of my next door neighbour but one call me "Uncle".  I do not anticipate
> that they will try to blow me up when they are older.
>

Are you sure it's not "uncool"? ;-)

[Graeme Wall]

Not necessarily in central London, could have jogged from his place of
work and back (he recrossed the bridge shortly after the incident) and
actually lives somewhere in the London commuter area, aka England.

and he must have been caught by
> many other cameras on his route.
>

But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

[Recliner]

Yes, good point.

>
> and he must have been caught by
>> many other cameras on his route.
>>
>
> But who is going to put in the effort to look at them all, once he left
> the bridge he could have gone in any direction.

Yes, but they can work outwards from the end of the bridge to trace his
route. That area must have plenty of cameras. And the case is high profile
enough that it may be worth the effort.

However, if, within a few days of the incident, they didn't realise that
they needed to do it, the footage from most of the cameras may not have
been retained.

[Christopher A. Lee]

As would the bomber. The only question would be how long it took to
back-track his movements. It takes people time - but he must have
boarded the train somewhere with his bucket-in-a-LIDL-bag.

[Graeme Wall]

Lots of cameras at the north end of the bridge, possibly not so many at
the south end.

>
> However, if, within a few days of the incident, they didn't realise that
> they needed to do it, the footage from most of the cameras may not have
> been retained.
>

It took quite a while to be made public. Don't know how long footage is
kept on modern CCTV but doubt it is more than week at the outside.

[Graeme Wall]

Limited to 5 possible places and a fairly short window of time so fairly
easy to go through.

[Recliner]

Yes, that may be the weak link.

[Nobody]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:20:32 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<c....@fairpoint.net> wrote:

I dunno why youse guys in the UK aren't (constantly?) up in arms over
the seemingly massive surveillance you appear to live under.

And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
nothing to fear" defence at me.

To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
more than a few years.

[Nobody]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 07:55:38 +0100, Martin Edwards
<big_m...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 9/15/2017 11:18 AM, Tim Watts wrote:

>> On 15/09/17 09:47, e27002 aurora wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders
>>>> chemicals that
>>>> overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545
>>>
>>> There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
>>> flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
>>> "the religion of piece" proselytizing.
>>>
>>

>> Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.
>>
>> And my money's on some jihadi fucker. We shall see.
>
>An uncle of mine was an army officer and did time against Christian
>terrorists in Cyprus.

One would expect that an uncle, were he such, would be yours!

Maybe, he was just one of your uncles.

<ducks>

[Recliner]

If anything, people seem to want more of it, as they feel safer with it.
This latest Parsons Green case seems to be an example where it paid off.
That may well also happen with the homicidal bridge jogger.

>
> And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
> nothing to fear" defence at me.

Why not? It's exactly what most people think.

>
> To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
> fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
> suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
> more than a few years.

Yes, it's been around for many years.

But instead of the early grainy, very low res, fuzzy, extended play VHS
images on worn-out tapes, it's now HD quality, sharp, clear, digital
images. Perhaps some are now 4k video quality?

They can now also be centrally monitored and stored for much longer. And,
in some cases, the images are automatically computer-scanned for car number
plates (ANPR) and known faces.

Your time will come: this is one area where Britain leads and the world
follows.

[Nobody]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 00:12:50 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

And 'they' don't really think/consider beyond, as to how it affects
their individual right to unobserved movement.

The state (in Canaduh anyway) has no right to know where I might or
might not be.

>> And please don't launch the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have
>> nothing to fear" defence at me.
>
>Why not? It's exactly what most people think.

That's a surrender to un-involved citizenship. Big word:
acquiescence.

>
>>
>> To an outsider, watching your exports of TV programming involving
>> fictional crime (e.g. the rather ancient series 'Scott and Bailey')
>> suggests that a mind-boggling Big Brother watch-it has been around for
>> more than a few years.
>
>Yes, it's been around for many years.

Sad.

>Your time will come: this is one area where Britain leads and the world
>follows.

Interestingly, the crime rate in Canaduh has been dropping for
decades.

Yes, Bad Things happen... but the occurrence relative to overall
population ain't growing.

Perception of safety, at least in my and general observation in our
major urban areas, is stable or improving... and remember, we're a
welcoming, multi-cultural society.

[Recliner]

What's with your unfunny misspellings? They just make your posts less
readable.

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 00:12:50 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

How many would sir like ?
https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/4k-ip-cameras.html

[Charles Ellson]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:52:11 +0100, Graeme Wall
<ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 15/09/2017 19:16, Tim Watts wrote:
>> On 15/09/17 13:06, tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>>> news:50ms8e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

>>>> On 15/09/17 09:47, e27002 aurora wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders
>>>>>> chemicals that
>>>>>> overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545
>>>>>
>>>>> There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
>>>>> flesh.  It sounds like a chemical reaction.  We can but hope it's not
>>>>> "the religion of piece" proselytizing.
>>>>>
>>>>

>>>> Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.
>>>

>>> the device had a timer (apparently)
>>>
>>
>> Which, apparently is a first for jihadi nutters if it is so.

>>
>
>But not for Irish nutters.
>

Or US nutters, the construction apparently being similar to the Boston
Marathon bombings :-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parsons-green-tube-bomber-inspired-11176982

or just plain home grown nutters who like killing people for some
vague reason.

[Recliner]

I wonder how widely installed those are? Most installed cameras are well
behind the state-of-the-art.

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 01:57:40 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

At around 200 squid a time possibly roughly the same good/bad quality
spread among users applies as before when it seemed to be "TV" quality
v. something cheaper ?

[Martin Edwards]

I think police methods are now far more sophisticated.

--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must
painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman

[Martin Edwards]

On 9/16/2017 4:06 PM, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
>> they're going to get caught?

> It's not guaranteed.

I was once caught urinating in New Street Station by cctv. I had gone
off the platform onto some gravel, but there was a camera there.

[Martin Edwards]

And well policed. Stephen Pinker cites a police strike in Montreal
where there were bank raids on the first day and a provincial policeman
was attacked.

[Martin Edwards]

Impossible.

[Martin Edwards]

Yes, the other is still alive and in a bad way. Please don't make fun.

[Graeme Wall]

One key thing is you don't have anything like the British tabloid press
which delights in keeping the population in a state of panic. What
Canadian newspapers I've seen on visits appear to be fairly staid in
comparison and some even have news in.

[Graeme Wall]

All new vehicles (trains, buses, trams, etc) will have had them fitted
since they became available. Its older stock and fixed installations
that don't get changed so often. I expect there are still a few tube
cameras out there more than 30 years after CCD cameras became ubiquitous.

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/09/2017 07:41, Martin Edwards wrote:
> On 9/16/2017 2:14 PM, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:cWPpYvIy...@perry.co.uk...
>>> In message
>>> <92302599.527249949.661658....@news.eternal-septem
>>>
>>> ber.org>, at 10:20:13 on Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Recliner
>>> <recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.
>>>
>>> Trying to get on a ferry?
>>
>> OOI
>>
>> assuming that he is the actual wanted person and not just some random
>> person of the correct ethnicity (as in - the Birmingham Six)
>>
>> I wonder if they identified him as a potential suspect:
>>
>> a) from a name
>> b) from facial recognition
>> c) his general demeanor
>> d) a failed attempt to travel on false documents
>>
>> anything else?
>>
>> tim
>>
>>
>>
> I think police methods are now far more sophisticated.
>

Nothing very sophisticated about trawling through CCTV coverage, but it
aooears to have worked.

[Roland Perry]

In message <gbnrrcln26e1361v8...@4ax.com>, at 03:29:35 on
Sun, 17 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:

>>>> But instead of the early grainy, very low res, fuzzy, extended play VHS
>>>> images on worn-out tapes, it's now HD quality, sharp, clear, digital
>>>> images. Perhaps some are now 4k video quality?
>>>>
>>> How many would sir like ?
>>> https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/4k-ip-cameras.html
>>
>>I wonder how widely installed those are? Most installed cameras are well
>>behind the state-of-the-art.
>>
>At around 200 squid a time possibly roughly the same good/bad quality
>spread among users applies as before when it seemed to be "TV" quality
>v. something cheaper ?

The cost of CCTV systems is much more than just a consumer grade camera.
For public surveillance not only is there the backhaul, but they are
often able to pan and tilt, and need much better sensitivity/
illumination than those listed.

Have you actually installed and used those cheapo ones? They are OK for
the passageway down the side of a shop, but not much else.
--
Roland Perry

[mechanic]

On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:54:55 -0700, Nobody wrote:

> dunno why youse guys in the UK aren't (constantly?) up in arms over
> the seemingly massive surveillance you appear to live under.

Some are, but those don't get much coverage in the media.

[tim...]

"Martin Edwards" <big_m...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pMovB.1111145$ik4.7...@fx38.am4...

> On 9/16/2017 2:14 PM, tim... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:cWPpYvIy...@perry.co.uk...
>>> In message
>>> <92302599.527249949.661658....@news.eternal-septem
>>> ber.org>, at 10:20:13 on Sat, 16 Sep 2017, Recliner
>>> <recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> And they've now made an arrest, in Dover.
>>>
>>> Trying to get on a ferry?
>>
>> OOI
>>
>> assuming that he is the actual wanted person and not just some random
>> person of the correct ethnicity (as in - the Birmingham Six)
>>
>> I wonder if they identified him as a potential suspect:
>>
>> a) from a name
>> b) from facial recognition
>> c) his general demeanor
>> d) a failed attempt to travel on false documents
>>
>> anything else?
>>
>> tim
>>
>>
>>
> I think police methods are now far more sophisticated.

ESP?

My question really is

did they pick him up because they had managed to get a name/face for the
person they were looking for

or did he give himself away

tim

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 07:43:37 +0100, Martin Edwards
<big_m...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 9/16/2017 4:06 PM, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> Don't these bombers realise that with all the surveillance videos,
>>> they're going to get caught?
>> It's not guaranteed.
>
>I was once caught urinating in New Street Station by cctv. I had gone
>off the platform onto some gravel, but there was a camera there.

Were they pissed?

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/09/2017 14:06, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:44:03 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>> assuming that he is the actual wanted person and not just some random
>>>> person of the correct ethnicity (as in - the Birmingham Six)
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they identified him as a potential suspect:
>>>>
>>>> a) from a name
>>>> b) from facial recognition
>>>> c) his general demeanor
>>>> d) a failed attempt to travel on false documents
>>>>
>>>> anything else?
>>>>
>>>> tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think police methods are now far more sophisticated.
>>
>> ESP?
>>
>> My question really is
>>
>> did they pick him up because they had managed to get a name/face for the
>> person they were looking for
>>
>> or did he give himself away
>>
>> tim
>
>

> Look at Train CCTV of man with with bag getting on at station xxx
> look at CCTV at station xxx for the time period you expect someone on
> that train to have entered the station and see same man with same bag
> touching in.
> Strike lucky and find he used a registered Oyster card.
>

Or he's a minor criminal with a record and fingerprints/DNA on file.
Get a match from the bucket.

[Roland Perry]

In message <opm5se$4bb$4...@dont-email.me>, at 16:54:53 on Sun, 17 Sep
2017, Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked

>>> did they pick him up because they had managed to get a name/face for the
>>> person they were looking for
>>>
>>> or did he give himself away
>>>

>> Look at Train CCTV of man with with bag getting on at station xxx
>> look at CCTV at station xxx for the time period you expect someone on
>> that train to have entered the station and see same man with same bag
>> touching in.
>> Strike lucky and find he used a registered Oyster card.
>
>Or he's a minor criminal with a record and fingerprints/DNA on file.
>Get a match from the bucket.

Very little hard information two days later. One arrest in Dover,
another in London; are either firmly linked to forensics from CCTV and
the bucket, or because of something else?
--
Roland Perry

[Recliner]

Presumably information will remain limited if they're still looking for
more suspects, suppliers, funders, inspirers, etc.

[Graeme Wall]

Doubt we will be told for a while yet. Threat level has been lowered
again so looks like they think no one else is involved.

[Roland Perry]

In message
<518959309.527358135.504501...@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 16:25:19 on Sun, 17 Sep 2017, Recliner
<recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:

>> Very little hard information two days later. One arrest in Dover,
>> another in London; are either firmly linked to forensics from CCTV and
>> the bucket, or because of something else?
>
>Presumably information will remain limited if they're still looking for
>more suspects, suppliers, funders, inspirers, etc.

But they've lowered the threat level.
--
Roland Perry

[Arthur Figgis]

On 17/09/2017 17:41, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> A friend who was in the police said many minor criminals aren't that
> bright and often make one mistake which is all that is needed .
>
> One I recall he mentioned was the interviewing of a suspect who had
> previous form and had been brought in because of a torch dropped at
> the scene.
> Suspect was a getting a bit cockier as he got older and argued that no
> way could they have found any prints on the scene because he had
> learnt inside Prison always to wear gloves and the torch they said he
> had handled would be clean and he had never seen it before.
> "can you explain how your prints got on the batteries inside the
> Torch ? was the next question.

A while back someone shared on a Facebook group a local newspaper story
about the police looking for someone who had run someone over. Someone
else then added a comment saying the story was unfair on her boyfriend
because his victim hadn't been watching out for people driving on the
footpath...

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:40:01 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

There's not much point having pan and tilt if you haven't got someone
to operate it; the "do you know this person?" pictures generally seem
to come from fixed cameras. The need for moveable cameras is reduced
by siting fixed cameras at pinch points; each moveable camera is
likely to augment several fixed cameras depending on purpose. When you
get to the point of needing to track a specific target then you
probably are needing more moveable cameras (and zoom lenses).

[Nobody]

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 01:24:59 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

Oh please, lighten up!

They are at least deliberately consistent.

We gave up wearing bowlers while striding across London Bridge a
decade or few ago, Shirley. <g>

[sp...@potato.field]

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 17:54:43 +0100
"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Basil Jet" <ba...@spamspamspam.com> wrote in message
>news:opgpqg$t1h$3...@dont-email.me...

>> On 2017\09\15 13:06, tim... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>>> news:50ms8e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...

>>>> On 15/09/17 09:47, e27002 aurora wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders
>>>>>> chemicals that
>>>>>> overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545
>>>>>
>>>>> There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
>>>>> flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
>>>>> "the religion of piece" proselytizing.
>>>>>
>>>>

>>>> Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.
>>>

>>> the device had a timer (apparently)
>>

>> Maybe LU can find out how one works,
>> and fit them in their line control offices.
>
>are we meant to understand that comment?

Makes perfect sense to me. LU timetables are just fiction. Someone should
invest in buying the drivers and signalmen some watches at least. Oh, and
sack the idiot who thought playing "There is a good service on all lines"
every 5 minutes was a way to stop people noticing that there hasn't been a
train for the last 10 and there are now 1000 people on the platform waiting.

--
Spud

[Roland Perry]

In message <5ahtrcp0r0tvuep69...@4ax.com>, at 20:05:01 on

Sun, 17 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:
>On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 09:40:01 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <gbnrrcln26e1361v8...@4ax.com>, at 03:29:35 on
>>Sun, 17 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:
>>>>>> But instead of the early grainy, very low res, fuzzy, extended play VHS
>>>>>> images on worn-out tapes, it's now HD quality, sharp, clear, digital
>>>>>> images. Perhaps some are now 4k video quality?
>>>>>>
>>>>> How many would sir like ?
>>>>> https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/4k-ip-cameras.html
>>>>
>>>>I wonder how widely installed those are? Most installed cameras are well
>>>>behind the state-of-the-art.
>>>>
>>>At around 200 squid a time possibly roughly the same good/bad quality
>>>spread among users applies as before when it seemed to be "TV" quality
>>>v. something cheaper ?
>>
>>The cost of CCTV systems is much more than just a consumer grade camera.
>>For public surveillance not only is there the backhaul, but they are
>>often able to pan and tilt, and need much better sensitivity/
>>illumination than those listed.
>>
>>Have you actually installed and used those cheapo ones? They are OK for
>>the passageway down the side of a shop, but not much else.
>>
>There's not much point having pan and tilt if you haven't got someone
>to operate it; the "do you know this person?" pictures generally seem
>to come from fixed cameras.

Tell that to the installers of the tens of thousands of cameras which do
pan and tilt.

>The need for moveable cameras is reduced by siting fixed cameras at
>pinch points;

The moveable cameras tend to be at strategic points where they can cover
may different routes. The panning and tilting can be automatic on a
timer. Such cameras are more for preventing crime than detecting it.

>each moveable camera is likely to augment several fixed cameras
>depending on purpose. When you get to the point of needing to track a
>specific target then you probably are needing more moveable cameras
>(and zoom lenses).

You've been watching too much "Spooks".
--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

<damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cfssrctduh5i1gn1t...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 13:44:03 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>

>>>> assuming that he is the actual wanted person and not just some random
>>>> person of the correct ethnicity (as in - the Birmingham Six)
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they identified him as a potential suspect:
>>>>
>>>> a) from a name
>>>> b) from facial recognition
>>>> c) his general demeanor
>>>> d) a failed attempt to travel on false documents
>>>>
>>>> anything else?
>>>>
>>>> tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think police methods are now far more sophisticated.
>>
>>ESP?
>>
>>My question really is
>>
>>did they pick him up because they had managed to get a name/face for the
>>person they were looking for
>>
>>or did he give himself away
>>
>>tim
>
>

> Look at Train CCTV of man with with bag getting on at station xxx
> look at CCTV at station xxx for the time period you expect someone on
> that train to have entered the station and see same man with same bag
> touching in.
> Strike lucky and find he used a registered Oyster card.

Yes I do know how they could have found out the identity of the person

my question is

did they in fact manage this in the time available before they stopped the
guy at Dover

or

did they just get lucky because he gave himself away, some other way

My interest here (as a tech professional) is in assessing the state of the
art of the technology to do this in 12 hours, where previously it might have
taken them 3 weeks (or more)

tim

[Recliner]

It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds. Only later did they
discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing. So they got lucky.

[tim...]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message

news:vO5l+qLp...@perry.co.uk...

I never had a problem with spooks following people on CCTV

It was the way that there was always magically a "new" real person to take
over regardless of the route that the perp took, that was unbelievable.

tim


> --
> Roland Perry

[tim...]

<sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opo0fs$mdm$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 17:54:43 +0100
> "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>"Basil Jet" <ba...@spamspamspam.com> wrote in message
>>news:opgpqg$t1h$3...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 2017\09\15 13:06, tim... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:50ms8e-...@squidward.local.dionic.net...
>>>>> On 15/09/17 09:47, e27002 aurora wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:19:08 +0000 (UTC), sp...@potato.field wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like it could be an improvised device, or some builders
>>>>>>> chemicals that
>>>>>>> overheated. Hopefully the latter but seems unlikely to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are reports of folks leaving the station with burns on exposed
>>>>>> flesh. It sounds like a chemical reaction. We can but hope it's not
>>>>>> "the religion of piece" proselytizing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seen a picture of the device on twitter with wires hanging out.
>>>>
>>>> the device had a timer (apparently)
>>>
>>> Maybe LU can find out how one works,
>>> and fit them in their line control offices.
>>
>>are we meant to understand that comment?
>
> Makes perfect sense to me. LU timetables are just fiction. Someone should
> invest in buying the drivers and signalmen some watches at least.

you mean that they don't have them (watches that is)?

And in any case, how does having a timer stop the delay happening in the
first place.

and how does it help fix the problem?

(Yes I do know how to fix it!)

tim

[sp...@potato.field]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:39:38 +0100
"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opo0fs$mdm$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

>> Makes perfect sense to me. LU timetables are just fiction. Someone should
>> invest in buying the drivers and signalmen some watches at least.
>
>you mean that they don't have them (watches that is)?
>
>And in any case, how does having a timer stop the delay happening in the
>first place.

Because as a couple of hundred people are sitting in a train with a green
light waiting for the relief driver to turn up to take over, perhaps having
an alarm bell in the mess might remind him that he's paid to drive the damn
thing.

Another nice-to-have would be an auto cutoff interval on the PA if the driver
decides he's a budding talk radio host and spends 2 minutes telling us the
bleedin fecking obvious.

--
Spud

[tim...]

"Recliner" <recli...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:34805601.527430757.438307....@news.eternal-september.org...

Thanks

I had half expected that would be the answer (but had seen nothing to
suggest it was)

tim

[Roland Perry]

In message
<34805601.527430757.438307....@news.eternal-septem
ber.org>, at 12:34:55 on Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Recliner
<recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:

>> my question is
>>
>> did they in fact manage this in the time available before they stopped the
>> guy at Dover
>>
>> or
>>
>> did they just get lucky because he gave himself away, some other way
>>
>> My interest here (as a tech professional) is in assessing the state of the
>> art of the technology to do this in 12 hours, where previously it might have
>> taken them 3 weeks (or more)
>
>It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds.

No, or forged, passport/ticket?

>Only later did they discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing.
>So they got lucky.

--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

<sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opofmc$1itp$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:39:38 +0100
> "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opo0fs$mdm$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> Makes perfect sense to me. LU timetables are just fiction. Someone
>>> should
>>> invest in buying the drivers and signalmen some watches at least.
>>
>>you mean that they don't have them (watches that is)?
>>
>>And in any case, how does having a timer stop the delay happening in the
>>first place.
>
> Because as a couple of hundred people are sitting in a train with a green
> light waiting for the relief driver to turn up to take over, perhaps
> having
> an alarm bell in the mess might remind him that he's paid to drive the
> damn
> thing.

well having grown up on a route where turns started at the terminus (Morden)
I suppose that I never experienced that problem

But you're right it does happen on the Picc at Acton

But I still don't see that it's down to the individual not knowing the time.
They just do it because they can.

tim

[sp...@potato.field]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:58:21 +0100

"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opofmc$1itp$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:39:38 +0100

>> Because as a couple of hundred people are sitting in a train with a green
>> light waiting for the relief driver to turn up to take over, perhaps
>> having
>> an alarm bell in the mess might remind him that he's paid to drive the
>> damn
>> thing.
>
>well having grown up on a route where turns started at the terminus (Morden)
>I suppose that I never experienced that problem

Congratulations, you had utl post 80000 on the aioe server :)

>But you're right it does happen on the Picc at Acton

And arnos grove and no doubt rayners lane too.

>But I still don't see that it's down to the individual not knowing the time.
>They just do it because they can.

Well thats probably true unfortunately.

--
Spud

[Charles Ellson]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:36:47 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

No, I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.

[Arthur Figgis]

On 18/09/2017 13:34, Recliner wrote:

> It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds. Only later did they
> discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing.

"They" would say that, wouldn't they...?

[Roland Perry]

In message <6310sc925i341v56v...@4ax.com>, at 18:47:06 on
Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:

>>> The moveable cameras tend to be at strategic points where they can cover
>>> may different routes. The panning and tilting can be automatic on a timer.
>>> Such cameras are more for preventing crime than detecting it.
>>>
>>>>each moveable camera is likely to augment several fixed cameras depending
>>>>on purpose. When you get to the point of needing to track a specific
>>>>target then you probably are needing more moveable cameras (and zoom
>>>>lenses).
>>>
>>> You've been watching too much "Spooks".
>>
>No, I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
>is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
>generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
>watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.

How are the police alerted to the flight of the alleged offender so
soon?

Meanwhile, I was looking at one of the pan/tilt cameras on a street
corner (T-junction) earlier today, and it simply cycles between each of
the three directions every 15-20 seconds.
--
Roland Perry

[Recliner]

Arthur Figgis <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/09/2017 13:34, Recliner wrote:
>
>> It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds. Only later did they
>> discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing.
>
> "They" would say that, wouldn't they...?

Why? "They" would look smarter if they'd claimed to have caught him
through their superior intelligence, rather than catching him through lucky
accident.

[Charles Ellson]

On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 21:19:32 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <6310sc925i341v56v...@4ax.com>, at 18:47:06 on
>Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:
>
>>>> The moveable cameras tend to be at strategic points where they can cover
>>>> may different routes. The panning and tilting can be automatic on a timer.
>>>> Such cameras are more for preventing crime than detecting it.
>>>>
>>>>>each moveable camera is likely to augment several fixed cameras depending
>>>>>on purpose. When you get to the point of needing to track a specific
>>>>>target then you probably are needing more moveable cameras (and zoom
>>>>>lenses).
>>>>
>>>> You've been watching too much "Spooks".
>>>
>>No, I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
>>is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
>>generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
>>watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.
>
>How are the police alerted to the flight of the alleged offender so
>soon?
>

Through a set of the local authority's radios used by door staff,
police, street wardens and others.

>Meanwhile, I was looking at one of the pan/tilt cameras on a street
>corner (T-junction) earlier today, and it simply cycles between each of
>the three directions every 15-20 seconds.
>

That would suggest it is mainly for observing the traffic when in that
style of use. It might be findable on one of the various websites that
get feeds from cameras.

[Arthur Figgis]

They don't need to look smart, just to get the right person. There might
be less paperwork and fewer awkward questions if it was seemingly lucky
chance, rather than something which could give some vague clue as to how
they knew.

ISTR once reading about an aircraft being sent to fly past a major
German warship, in the hope that when the ship came under attack shortly
afterwards the Kriegsmarine would think that the plane had happened to
stumble across it, rather than suspect that someone might be reading
their messages and finding them that way.

[Roland Perry]

In message <ujg0sc9e208r47voe...@4ax.com>, at 23:11:45 on

Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:

>>>I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
>>>is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
>>>generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
>>>watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.
>>
>>How are the police alerted to the flight of the alleged offender so
>>soon?
>>
>Through a set of the local authority's radios used by door staff,
>police, street wardens and others.

I'm surprised to find that's the idea behind the cameras where I live.
Surprised because I know the police station (where the feeds end up) is
unmanned at the times when they would be most useful.

>>Meanwhile, I was looking at one of the pan/tilt cameras on a street
>>corner (T-junction) earlier today, and it simply cycles between each of
>>the three directions every 15-20 seconds.
>>
>That would suggest it is mainly for observing the traffic when in that
>style of use.

Antisocial behaviour.

>It might be findable on one of the various websites that get feeds from
>cameras.

No, and the pictures it takes are virtually inaccessible to the public
even under SAR. I've never seen quite such a lots of bogus reasons why
they could refuse :(
--
Roland Perry

[tim...]

<sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opoi6h$1noc$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:58:21 +0100
> "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opofmc$1itp$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:39:38 +0100
>>> Because as a couple of hundred people are sitting in a train with a
>>> green
>>> light waiting for the relief driver to turn up to take over, perhaps
>>> having
>>> an alarm bell in the mess might remind him that he's paid to drive the
>>> damn
>>> thing.
>>
>>well having grown up on a route where turns started at the terminus
>>(Morden)
>>I suppose that I never experienced that problem
>
> Congratulations, you had utl post 80000 on the aioe server :)

does that win me some spurious "free" prize that I have to spend more on an
a 0900 phone number to collect, than it is worth?


tim

[tim...]

"Arthur Figgis" <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:CeWdnfy2jPr9vF3E...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 18/09/2017 13:34, Recliner wrote:
>
>> It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds. Only later did they
>> discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing.
>
> "They" would say that, wouldn't they...?

I'm inclined to think that the alternative is the greater deterrent, to be
honest.

Announcing that they did, in fact, manage to identify the perp's name using
normal policing looking at CCTV is going to worry them into stopping
attacking such targets - after all it's no secret that the CCTV is there,
and I doubt that any of theses copycat cells have the resources to disable
it.

Keeping it secret that they can do this, is no deterrent at all.

and it is the deterrent that we need here. Catching the perf after he has
killed 100 people is not a successful outcome.

[tim...]

"Arthur Figgis" <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote in message

news:pNCdnVlWgqggwF3E...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 18/09/2017 22:01, Recliner wrote:
>> Arthur Figgis <afi...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 18/09/2017 13:34, Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems he was arrested at Dover on other grounds. Only later did they
>>>> discover he was wanted fir the attempted bombing.
>>>
>>> "They" would say that, wouldn't they...?
>>
>> Why? "They" would look smarter if they'd claimed to have caught him
>> through their superior intelligence, rather than catching him through
>> lucky
>> accident.
>
> They don't need to look smart, just to get the right person. There might
> be less paperwork and fewer awkward questions if it was seemingly lucky
> chance, rather than something which could give some vague clue as to how
> they knew.

the "vague clue" to how it might be achieved was fully explained on
"Breakfast" the day after the incident

tim

[bol...@cylonhq.com]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:02:15 +0100

"tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opoi6h$1noc$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:58:21 +0100
>> "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>><sp...@potato.field> wrote in message news:opofmc$1itp$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 13:39:38 +0100
>>>> Because as a couple of hundred people are sitting in a train with a
>>>> green
>>>> light waiting for the relief driver to turn up to take over, perhaps
>>>> having
>>>> an alarm bell in the mess might remind him that he's paid to drive the
>>>> damn
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>>well having grown up on a route where turns started at the terminus
>>>(Morden)
>>>I suppose that I never experienced that problem
>>
>> Congratulations, you had utl post 80000 on the aioe server :)
>
>does that win me some spurious "free" prize that I have to spend more on an
>a 0900 phone number to collect, than it is worth?

It entitles you to one free pleasant comment in a reply.

"Have a nice day!"

[Recliner]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <opm5se$4bb$4...@dont-email.me>, at 16:54:53 on Sun, 17 Sep
> 2017, Graeme Wall <ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked

>>>> did they pick him up because they had managed to get a name/face for the
>>>> person they were looking for
>>>>
>>>> or did he give himself away
>>>>

>>> Look at Train CCTV of man with with bag getting on at station xxx
>>> look at CCTV at station xxx for the time period you expect someone on
>>> that train to have entered the station and see same man with same bag
>>> touching in.
>>> Strike lucky and find he used a registered Oyster card.
>>

>> Or he's a minor criminal with a record and fingerprints/DNA on file.
>> Get a match from the bucket.
>
> Very little hard information two days later. One arrest in Dover,
> another in London; are either firmly linked to forensics from CCTV and
> the bucket, or because of something else?

Well, they're still making arrests:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41327872

[Charles Ellson]

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 07:15:23 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <ujg0sc9e208r47voe...@4ax.com>, at 23:11:45 on
>Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:
>
>>>>I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
>>>>is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
>>>>generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
>>>>watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.
>>>
>>>How are the police alerted to the flight of the alleged offender so
>>>soon?
>>>
>>Through a set of the local authority's radios used by door staff,
>>police, street wardens and others.
>
>I'm surprised to find that's the idea behind the cameras where I live.
>

Your area might not use them the same way as Lambeth.

>Surprised because I know the police station (where the feeds end up) is
>unmanned at the times when they would be most useful.
>
>>>Meanwhile, I was looking at one of the pan/tilt cameras on a street
>>>corner (T-junction) earlier today, and it simply cycles between each of
>>>the three directions every 15-20 seconds.
>>>
>>That would suggest it is mainly for observing the traffic when in that
>>style of use.
>
>Antisocial behaviour.
>

That tends to happen at night. If the cameras are available then it
would seem to be sensible to use them for observing the traffic at
other times. In the above case, the cameras are usually "parked"
around 4am after the clubs have closed, not necessarily all aimed at
something as at least one (not at a junction) is just left pointing
down.

[Roland Perry]

In message <VqfwB.1231461$zs1.6...@fx15.am4>, at 20:51:01 on Tue, 19

Sep 2017, Recliner <recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:

>> Very little hard information two days later. One arrest in Dover,
>> another in London; are either firmly linked to forensics from CCTV and
>> the bucket, or because of something else?

Turns out to be "something else".

>Well, they're still making arrests:
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41327872

Most likely "associated with/linked to" one or both of the first two
arrestees, rather than to the bucket or CCTV in west London.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <d4f3sc96pdvfghrid...@4ax.com>, at 02:03:16 on
Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 07:15:23 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <ujg0sc9e208r47voe...@4ax.com>, at 23:11:45 on
>>Mon, 18 Sep 2017, Charles Ellson <ce1...@yahoo.ca> remarked:
>>
>>>>>I've been working in one of many areas where that is exactly what
>>>>>is done when an offender leaves the scene of their crime. They're
>>>>>generally too thick to go off down a side street so we've often
>>>>>watched the police with us just waiting for them to walk/run past.
>>>>
>>>>How are the police alerted to the flight of the alleged offender so
>>>>soon?
>>>>
>>>Through a set of the local authority's radios used by door staff,
>>>police, street wardens and others.
>>
>>I'm surprised to find that's the idea behind the cameras where I live.
>>
>Your area might not use them the same way as Lambeth.

The intention in their write-up is the same.

>>Surprised because I know the police station (where the feeds end up) is
>>unmanned at the times when they would be most useful.
>>
>>>>Meanwhile, I was looking at one of the pan/tilt cameras on a street
>>>>corner (T-junction) earlier today, and it simply cycles between each of
>>>>the three directions every 15-20 seconds.
>>>>
>>>That would suggest it is mainly for observing the traffic when in that
>>>style of use.
>>
>>Antisocial behaviour.
>>
>That tends to happen at night. If the cameras are available then it
>would seem to be sensible to use them for observing the traffic at
>other times.

That's not in fact in their business case. Also, being observable only
at the police station, when these days the police have no interest in
the smooth flow of traffic in town centres. As far as I can see they
don't even turn out to RTAs which block the road unless someone
specifically calls them.

>In the above case, the cameras are usually "parked" around 4am after
>the clubs have closed, not necessarily all aimed at something as at
>least one (not at a junction) is just left pointing down.

The one I saw was doing its pan-dance in the middle of the day.

--
Roland Perry

[Recliner]

I wouldn't claim to know.

[Clive D.W. Feather]

In article <pNCdnVlWgqggwF3E...@brightview.co.uk>, Arthur
Figgis <afi...@example.com.invalid> writes

>ISTR once reading about an aircraft being sent to fly past a major
>German warship, in the hope that when the ship came under attack shortly
>afterwards the Kriegsmarine would think that the plane had happened to
>stumble across it, rather than suspect that someone might be reading
>their messages and finding them that way.

That was part of standard policy for "Ultra".

Basically, no information from Enigma decrypts could be used in the
field unless there was a plausible non-crypto-related explanation that
the Germans would believe. Of course, the information could be used to
generate that "explanation".

So, in the example I think you're thinking of, a decrypt would indicate
where and when an attack submarine was meeting with a tanker submarine
to refuel - this had to be done on the surface and neither could
submerge during the process. So a reconnaisance squadron was instructed
to send a plane out in that specific area. To their surprise, they would
find the two subs sitting there and could whistle up some bombers. If
the submariners survived the experience, they would report that they got
spotted by a plane.

--
Clive D.W. Feather