Hidden subway in Scranton?
Joe Morris
info on the web....
A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
fancy subway platform. Scranton made tons of money from anthracite
coal used in long distance train travel and spent some of that on this
nice subway system which at some point ran out of money.
Sounds like the Cincinnati story with some local flavor added.
Any truth to this or is it pure UL
--
Joe Morris, SysAdmin and Not Insane
Atlanta stories: http://www.olagrande.net/users/jolomo
WooF
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Joe Morris wrote:
> A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
> Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
> underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
> fancy subway platform.
A possible origin for this legend is that Philadelphia once had
plans for a subway line in Arch Street (an east-west street a
couple of blocks north of City Hall). At two locations, where
there was extensive excavation for water and/or sewer mains, the
City too the opportunity to put in a short section of subway
tunnel in one of those excavations, and a short section of a
subway station in another. But both these never-completed
facilities have been known to the Cioty's Department of Public
Property ever since.
George Scithers of owls...@netaxs.com
Access Systems
> This sounded like an urban legend and I haven't found any
> info on the web....
> A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
> Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
> underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
> Sounds like the Cincinnati story with some local flavor added.
> Any truth to this or is it pure UL
maybe they are thinking of the almost mile long tunnel under Crown Ave
used by the Laurel line, a third rail operated interurban.
Bob
--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign accessBob .-.
\ / NO HTML/PDF in e-mail acce...@smartnospam.net /v\
X NO MSWord docs in e-mail Access Systems, engineers // \\
/ \ NO attachments in e-mail equal access is a civil right /( _ )\
^^ ^^
Christopher Rivituso
there is a completely new and ready station that was built just before World
War II. I know that there are tunnels meant for the metro on the other side
of the Wisła River, near railroad station Dworzec Wileński. But they are
flooded.
CR
"WooF" <owls...@netaxs.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.SUN.3.95.101062...@unix2.netaxs.com...
Erich S Houchens
This sounds almost like the subway station at Washington's Dulles
International airport. What, you didn't know Dulles airport had a subway
station?? Here's a web site that says it does -
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~carguy/metro.html#Dulles Airport Rail Tunnel.
> George Scithers of owls...@netaxs.com
--
Erich S Houchens
Fort Worth, Texas
eshou...@home.com
BNS...@trainorders.com
AOL IM: RRspatch ICQ: 172674
Random "Bushism" -
"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as
we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from
incredible disease."
--After meeting with the leaders of the European Union,
Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001
Access Systems
> info on the web....
> A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
> Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
> underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
> Sounds like the Cincinnati story with some local flavor added.
> Any truth to this or is it pure UL
maybe they are thinking of the almost mile long tunnel under Crown Ave
used by the Laurel line, a third rail operated interurban.
Bob
--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign accessBob .-.
\ / NO HTML/PDF in e-mail acce...@smartnospam.net /v\
X NO MSWord docs in e-mail Access Systems, engineers // \\
/ \ NO attachments in e-mail equal access is a civil right /( _ )\
^^ ^^
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John R Cambron
Erich S Houchens wrote:
>
> WooF wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Joe Morris wrote:
> >
> > > A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
> > > Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
> > > underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
> > > fancy subway platform.
> >
> > A possible origin for this legend is that Philadelphia once had
> > plans for a subway line in Arch Street (an east-west street a
> > couple of blocks north of City Hall). At two locations, where
> > there was extensive excavation for water and/or sewer mains, the
> > City too the opportunity to put in a short section of subway
> > tunnel in one of those excavations, and a short section of a
> > subway station in another. But both these never-completed
> > facilities have been known to the Cioty's Department of Public
> > Property ever since.
>
> This sounds almost like the subway station at Washington's Dulles
> International airport. What, you didn't know Dulles airport had a subway
> station?? Here's a web site that says it does -
>
> http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~carguy/metro.html#Dulles Airport Rail Tunnel.
I asked one of the planning people at one of the Dullas Tysons
Rail project scopping meetings about this alleged Dullas Airport
station that was allegedly built when the main terminal was built.
He told me no such station exists !!
--
======================================================================
NT Geek, MCP
Transit Geek
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/
Model Railroader HO N John R Cambron
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/sunbelt/ North Beach MD USA
Railroad Geek camb...@chesapeake.net
======================================================================
DW
DW
http://www.railfan.net/lists/erielack-digest/200003/msg00458.html
http://www.trainweb.com/anchorvideos/T9.html
http://www.transitgloriamundi.com/trolley_videos/trolley_video_list.html#mat
Looks like there was a streetcar tunnel, but whether or not it could be
considered a subway is debatable.
greg byshenk
> John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote :
> >I asked one of the planning people at one of the Dullas Tysons
> >Rail project scopping meetings about this alleged Dullas Airport
> >station that was allegedly built when the main terminal was built.
> >He told me no such station exists !!
> The same horseshit story existed out in San Francisco when they built
> a huge parking structure in the center of San Francisco Airport. The
> manure was that they built a full size BART station under the garage.
> Now that BART definitely IS going into the airport, they had to built
> a whole brand new station.
> Gee, I wonder what happened to the one under the garage????
While this kind of integration in construction is nice when possible,
I suspect that attempting to build a subway station that way is not
practical -- unless the design of the subway itself (alignment, etc.)
is basically complete.
--
greg byshenk - gbys...@byshenk.net - Leiden, NL
hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org>
<http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html>
Exile on Market Street
<gbys...@byshenk.net> wrote:
[re: tales of subway stations built under facilities in anticipation of
rapid-transit service that might or might not come some day]
>
> While this kind of integration in construction is nice when possible,
> I suspect that attempting to build a subway station that way is not
> practical -- unless the design of the subway itself (alignment, etc.)
> is basically complete.
>
Well, it *did* happen in Philadelphia, and this one's not urban legend.
It was in the mid-1950s, when the city was dusting off long-dormant plans
for a Northeast spur of the Broad Street Subway. The city's proposal
called for a route following Roosevelt Blvd.
Anyway, in conjunction with a bridge-reconstruction project on that street,
space was dug out for a subway station beneath the Boulevard just E of its
intersection with Adams and Whitaker Avenues, adjacent to a Sears catalog
warehouse and retail store.
Community opposition led the city to shelve the Northeast Spur proposal, so
the station sat unused -- and remains so to this day.
(Stories about this station appeared in _The Philadelphia Inquirer_ in the
late 1980s and the _Philadelphia City Paper_ in the mid-1990s.)
FWIW, since then, there have been at least two more attempts to get the BSS
Northeast Spur off the drawing board, and a third has just begun as part of
a city Streets Department proposal to go ahead and build the Roosevelt
Expressway.
--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Managing Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
In keeping with the times, this .sig is now for rent.
Ask about our rates.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
WooF
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Exile on Market Street wrote:
> FWIW, since then, there have been at least two more attempts to get the BSS
> Northeast Spur off the drawing board, and a third has just begun as part of
> a city Streets Department proposal to go ahead and build the Roosevelt
> Expressway.
One of the proposals was studied in the late '70s, when I was in
the Department of Public Property, working on the Center City
Commuter Connection.
George Scithers of owls...@netaxs.com
WooF
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, DW wrote:
> Did the Laurel Line have a station as well?
Yes, it did. (The Laurel Line was the mostly-third-rail powere
Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley, which ran from Scranton to Wilkes
Barre.) The stations at both ends, however, were on the surface.
The L&WV also had a tunnel, but there were no stations in it.
Very close to the Wilkes-Barre terminal of the L&WV was the
terminal of the Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton, another
third-rail-powered interurban. But the platform and tracks of
that station were on the second floor of the terminal building.
George Scithers of owls...@netaxs.com
Tim Kynerd
Market Street wrote:
Speaking of built but unused stations, there is such a station on the
Stockholm tunnelbana (underground). It's called Kymlinge and is between
Kista and Hallonbergen on line 11 (one of the blue lines, the one that goes
to Akalla).
The station is right at a tunnel opening in a hillside, so part of the
platform is in the open air, and the rest is in tunnel. Kymlinge was built
because at the time (early 1970s), there were plans to develop the area
around it with both offices and residences. These plans never came to
fruition, although proposals still surface from time to time.
On the standard tunnebana maps, there is an extra-long gap between Kista and
Hallonbergen that I assume is reserved for Kymlinge, should it ever be put
into service.
-- Tim
John R Cambron
greg byshenk wrote:
>
> , <,> wrote:
> > John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote :
>
> > >I asked one of the planning people at one of the Dullas Tysons
> > >Rail project scopping meetings about this alleged Dullas Airport
> > >station that was allegedly built when the main terminal was built.
> > >He told me no such station exists !!
>
> > The same horseshit story existed out in San Francisco when they built
> > a huge parking structure in the center of San Francisco Airport. The
> > manure was that they built a full size BART station under the garage.
>
> > Now that BART definitely IS going into the airport, they had to built
> > a whole brand new station.
>
> > Gee, I wonder what happened to the one under the garage????
>
> While this kind of integration in construction is nice when possible,
> I suspect that attempting to build a subway station that way is not
> practical -- unless the design of the subway itself (alignment, etc.)
> is basically complete.
The allegedly station was built 20 years before their were any
general load gauge, car and train length specs agreed upon, or even
the agency that predates WMATA existed.
DW
a "hidden" subway that was based on fact: a old interurban (and later used
for freight) tunnel under downtown Dallas. To this day, few know about it.
There is also the "hidden subway" in Brooklyn, a spur which goes partially
under the Narrows toward Staten Island and stops. According to what I've
read, a politico who hated the subways killed the line after construction
had started.
Dan
Bill Bolton
> Speaking of built but unused stations, there is such a station on the
> Stockholm tunnelbana (underground). It's called Kymlinge and is between
> Kista and Hallonbergen on line 11 (one of the blue lines, the one that goes
> to Akalla).
>
> The station is right at a tunnel opening in a hillside, so part of the
> platform is in the open air, and the rest is in tunnel. Kymlinge was built
> because at the time (early 1970s), there were plans to develop the area
> around it with both offices and residences. These plans never came to
> fruition, although proposals still surface from time to time.
There's one somewhat like that on the Eastern Suburbs line in Sydney
between Edgecliff and Bondi Junction in short open section between two
underground sections. The tracks spread for a platform and there is a
sort of partial platform coping structure there, but NIMBY opposition
from the resident in the area ensured the station was never
constructed past that point.
I remember in the '70s being surprised to see that there was an above
ground station, complete with tracks, catenary stanchions etc at
Philadelphia airport that wasn't connected to anything. It is now
integrated in with the Philadelphia surface electric commuter rail
network as far as I'm aware, though that didn't occur until quite a
long time later.
Cheers,
Bill
Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia
Peter Schleifer
>There is also the "hidden subway" in Brooklyn, a spur which goes partially
>under the Narrows toward Staten Island and stops. According to what I've
>read, a politico who hated the subways killed the line after construction
>had started.
The depression had more to do with halting some subway construction..
The mayor in question (Hylan?) hated the private subway companies, but
not subways - he supported the city-owned IND. There was only a very
short section of tunnel built towards Staten Island, but there are
several "ghost stations" that were partially built in anticipation of
the IND second system while the IND lines were being constructed.
See
http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/rails/disused.underground.html
There is also a long-lost LIRR tunnel under Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn
that was rediscovered a decade or so ago.
--
Peter Schleifer
"We lost some time after things that never matter"
John Hibbert
In Syracuse NY, back in the old days ( I believe that was the late
30s/early 40s), there were public restrooms located below Hanover Square,
there people in need to refresh themselves had to go down a flight of
stairs to either facility (men's or women's). When out-of-towners would
ask where the subway was, they were usually directed to our "subway
stations" located in the square (which is actually a triangular park, but
that's beside the point).
I might be able to dig up a link for a picture of these restrooms once I
get back to work.
John "can't get there from here" Hibbert
--
Visit "The World's Littlest Web Server!"
A Mac SE running as a web server, at:
http://149.96.1.33
Dan W
confused!
"John Hibbert" <jhib...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jhibbert-290...@192.168.1.100...
Robert Cote
"Dan W" <texm...@swbt.net> wrote:
> Hmm, it's a good thing they weren't in Dayton. Then they'd really be
> confused!
>
Nah, Dayton is easy. Just remember that the Presidential stations are
clockwise starting in order of term in office.
William H. Pittman
<tech...@gte.net> wrote:
How does the Glorious Communist Workers station (or whatever) fit into
that? :-)
William H. Pittman
Robert Cote
Clockwise disembark FDR Way, Counterclockwise Clinton Circle (spin
until dizzy).
Ray Mullins
Robert Cote <tech...@gte.net> wrote:
>In article <williepitt-895CE...@news.mybizz.net>,
> "William H. Pittman" <willi...@global2000.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <g75%6.5094$g72.3...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Robert Cote
>> <tech...@gte.net> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <ZN2%6.38$uk1....@nnrp1.sbc.net>,
>> > "Dan W" <texm...@swbt.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hmm, it's a good thing they weren't in Dayton. Then they'd really be
>> > > confused!
>> > >
>> >
>> > Nah, Dayton is easy. Just remember that the Presidential stations are
>> > clockwise starting in order of term in office
>>
>> How does the Glorious Communist Workers station (or whatever) fit into
>> that? :-)
>
>Clockwise disembark FDR Way, Counterclockwise Clinton Circle (spin
>until dizzy).
ROFTL!
Don't forget the complementary beverage services on the express rush hour
routes...
--
M. Ray Mullins Big Bear City, California home of the other MARTA ICQ# 28901695
California Transit Publications - your one stop shop for transit marketing,
publications, planning and web services at http://www.catransit.com/ TIPs:
http://socaltip.tipnetworks.org http://norcaltip.tipnetworks.org http://cencaltip.tipnetworks.org
Robert Cote
m...@lerctr.org (Ray Mullins) wrote:
> In article <0Q5%6.1934$fu2.1...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> Robert Cote <tech...@gte.net> wrote:
> >In article <williepitt-895CE...@news.mybizz.net>,
> > "William H. Pittman" <willi...@global2000.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <g75%6.5094$g72.3...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>, Robert Cote
> >> <tech...@gte.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <ZN2%6.38$uk1....@nnrp1.sbc.net>,
> >> > "Dan W" <texm...@swbt.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hmm, it's a good thing they weren't in Dayton. Then they'd really be
> >> > > confused!
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Nah, Dayton is easy. Just remember that the Presidential stations are
> >> > clockwise starting in order of term in office
> >>
> >> How does the Glorious Communist Workers station (or whatever) fit into
> >> that? :-)
> >
> >Clockwise disembark FDR Way, Counterclockwise Clinton Circle (spin
> >until dizzy).
>
> ROFTL!
Kudos to William for the excellent straight line as well.
> Don't forget the complementary beverage services on the express rush hour
> routes...
Isn't that a new driver benefit in the latest MTA contract?
[Special thanks for the understanding that I actually do have a sense
of humor, something so commonly forgotten.]
WooF
> "John Hibbert" <jhib...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:jhibbert-290...@192.168.1.100...
> > In article <GsT_6.226$Ki.1...@nnrp2.sbc.net>, "DW" <texm...@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I've heard of a few others, too. Even here in Dallas, there was a rumour
> of
> > > a "hidden" subway that was based on fact: a old interurban (and later
> used
> > > for freight) tunnel under downtown Dallas. To this day, few know about
> it.
> > >
I seriously doubt that there was ever an interurban tunnel under
downtown Dallas. There's no mention of such in the various books
about Texas Electric, and it certainly wasn't there in the 1940s,
when I was exploring TE and the Dallas Railway & Terminal as a
high-school kid.
George Scithers of owls...@netaxs.com
Robert Coe
wrote:
: I asked one of the planning people at one of the Dullas Tysons
: Rail project scopping meetings about this alleged Dullas Airport
: station that was allegedly built when the main terminal was built.
: He told me no such station exists !!
The original Dulles didn't even have a pedestrian tunnel to the gates. (It
does now, doesn't it??) In fact, it didn't even have the remote gatehouse! The
"Dulles Busses" went straight to the plane, and docked against the door! At
the time, that was considered very forward looking and a harbinger of things
to come. (OK, go ahead and laugh; I'm telling the truth!) :^)
--
___ _ - Bob
/__) _ / / ) _ _
(_/__) (_)_(_) (___(_)_(/_____________________________________ b...@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, MA 01776-2120 USA ** 978-443-3265
James B Guthrie
>The original Dulles didn't even have a pedestrian tunnel to the gates. (It
>does now, doesn't it??) In fact, it didn't even have the remote gatehouse!
The
>"Dulles Busses" went straight to the plane, and docked against the door! At
>the time, that was considered very forward looking and a harbinger of
things
>to come. (OK, go ahead and laugh; I'm telling the truth!) :^)
Edmonton International Airport opened in the early 1960s and had a pair of
sir shuttle cars the same as Dulles. In our winters these were a lot more
user friendly than was walking outdoors. Eventually all of the regular gates
got aeroquays, and the shuttles were used for loading charter flights only.
In the last renovation/expansion, the shuttles and their mating gates were
scrapped.
Some european airlines used to have systems where you were ticketed and
checked in at downtown terminals, then taken by highway buses out to the
airport, then driven right up to the plane, and you just walked up the
stairs into the plane. Modern security approaches have led to this being
scrapped so far as I know.
Ted Rosenberg
stations under baltimore. None had been used at LEAST since WWII.
except West Baltimore/Edmonson which was operating on the MARC line
briefly until they moved it downtrack to the stub end of the expressway,
with a parking lot and some benches on top of the bridge instead of a
station.
I was in the Laurens St. station of the Western Maryland about 20 years
ago, probably the first person there in many years - CSX was SUPPOSED to
deck the small cut between the station and the "Baltimore and Potomac"
Tunnel - but they never did. Since then, the "Western Maryland"
Laurens St. tunnel connection across the Amtrak "B & P" Tunnel seems to
have been cut.
Supposedly there is a station in the Howard St. tube, BUT since the
tunnel is on fire, for the THIRD day now, I doubt that much is left.
CSX maintenance is AWFUL - the city has had a running battle with them
to maintain the Mount Royal and 26st PST cuts.
Joe Morris wrote:
>
> This sounded like an urban legend and I haven't found any
> info on the web....
>
> A friend of mine claims there was a discovery maybe 40 years ago in
> Scranton. They were doing work on a roadbed, found some large plates
> underground and underneath that a marble staircase leading down to a
> fancy subway platform. Scranton made tons of money from anthracite
> coal used in long distance train travel and spent some of that on this
> nice subway system which at some point ran out of money.
>
> Sounds like the Cincinnati story with some local flavor added.
> Any truth to this or is it pure UL
>
> --
> Joe Morris, SysAdmin and Not Insane
> Atlanta stories: http://www.olagrande.net/users/jolomo
Robert Coe
: I remember in the '70s being surprised to see that there was an above ground
: station, complete with tracks, catenary stanchions etc at Philadelphia
: airport that wasn't connected to anything. It is now integrated in with the
: Philadelphia surface electric commuter rail network as far as I'm aware,
: though that didn't occur until quite a long time later.
But that's what it was for. Those platforms (one in each of three or four
sections of the terminal) were put in as part of an airport upgrade project in
the early 1970s. I remember seeing them in 1974 and wondering if anything
would ever use them. As I recall, I thought an extension of the Broad St
subway was the most likely possibility.
--
Exile on Market Street
<b...@1776.COM> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:25:17 GMT, Bill Bolton <billb...@computer.org> wrote:
> : I remember in the '70s being surprised to see that there was an above ground
> : station, complete with tracks, catenary stanchions etc at Philadelphia
> : airport that wasn't connected to anything. It is now integrated in with the
> : Philadelphia surface electric commuter rail network as far as I'm aware,
> : though that didn't occur until quite a long time later.
>
> But that's what it was for. Those platforms (one in each of three or four
> sections of the terminal) were put in as part of an airport upgrade project in
> the early 1970s. I remember seeing them in 1974 and wondering if anything
> would ever use them. As I recall, I thought an extension of the Broad St
> subway was the most likely possibility.
You may or may not be interested to know that PHL is in the midst of a
major expansion. A new terminal for regional/commuter service (Terminal F)
has been completed, and a new, larger international terminal (Terminal 1)
is now under construction.
AFAICT, Terminal F is not physically connected to either the main airport
terminals or the Airport Line, as it lies beyond the end of the tracks and
a little ways away from Terminal E.
It appears that there is enough width and length in the Airport Line ROW to
add a platform to serve Terminal 1, but there are no signs of construction
of such a creature. The approach ramps from I-95 to the airport's
departures and arrivals roads are being relocated south of their present
locations, though.
--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Managing Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
"That Tony Lombardo guy that you share your life with -- is he homosexual
too?"
--Late former mayor and talk-show host Frank Rizzo, to _Philadelphia Gay
News_ publisher Mark Segal on the first night of Rizzo's talk show
---------------------------(as reported in Segal's _PGN_ column 8/3/01)--
Loren Petrich
use: the Fort Mason tunnel on the north coast of San Francisco to the
west of the Fisherman's Wharf tourist trap.
There had once been a railroad line there; a railroad line that had
gone from there eastward and then southward along the waterfront to the
then-Southern-Pacific tracks in the China Basin area. This railroad
line had spurs into the piers, some of which I remember seeing (are
there any survivors?).
However, that line has been abandoned for years, and there is now a
different rail system there -- northward and southward extensions of
the Muni Metro.
The southward line is an extension of the Muni Metro, while the
northward one is an extension of the F/Market antique-trolley line.
That line has a loop in the Fisherman's Wharf area that ends a little
to the east of the Fort Mason tunnel.
It might be possible to extend that line further eastward to the
Fort Mason tunnel and beyond, but that would require either a shared
track or overlapping double tracks (a gauntlet track), since that
tunnel is single-track.
--
Loren Petrich
pet...@panix.com
Happiness is a fast Macintosh
And a fast train
Loren Petrich
railroad tunnel, though I don't recall the details.
Lee Ayrton
On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Loren Petrich wrote:
>
> Also, the St. Louis light-rail system makes use of an abandoned
> railroad tunnel, though I don't recall the details.
If the light-rail system uses the tunnel, does it not make it rebandoned?
Robert Coe
wrote:
: On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:31:11 -0500, "DW" <texm...@msn.com> wrote:
:
: >There is also the "hidden subway" in Brooklyn, a spur which goes partially
: >under the Narrows toward Staten Island and stops. According to what I've
: >read, a politico who hated the subways killed the line after construction
: >had started.
:
: The depression had more to do with halting some subway construction..
: The mayor in question (Hylan?) hated the private subway companies, but
: not subways - he supported the city-owned IND. There was only a very
: short section of tunnel built towards Staten Island, but there are
: several "ghost stations" that were partially built in anticipation of
: the IND second system while the IND lines were being constructed.
: See
: http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~brennan/rails/disused.underground.html
I'd always heard that it was Robert Moses, Parks Commissioner and road-loving
urban planner, who delivered the coup-de-grace to the subway extersion to SI.
I've seen it claimed that he deliberately had the eastern tower of the
Verrazano Bridge positioned so as to make the stub tunnel unusable at any
future time.
bba...@gmail.com
>>On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:50:28 -0400, Peter Schleifer <pschl...@speakeasy.org>
wrote:
Hi Rob.
Are you related to Ed Rice?
gnohmon
Robert Coe wrote:
> [snip]
Thanks for reviving the topic.
The LIRR spur under atlatic avenue in brooklyn was discovered, at least
according to my memory, only when it filled up with a gas leak and then
exploded.
Fictionally, forgotten tunnels in Manhattan were used by Doctor Savage,
by Fu Man Chu, and, i think, by Batman.
In reality, the original Manhattan subway line was a pneumatic gadget
invented by a dr. beach. It was discovered under city hall after nearly
a hundred years of lostness.
It's much more difficult to hide or lose surface structures than
underground structures. Can you imagine the Empire State Bldg being
lost for a hundred years?
Mark Brader
> The LIRR spur under atlatic avenue in brooklyn was discovered, at least
> according to my memory, only when it filled up with a gas leak and then
> exploded.
Such an explosion did happen in the former Pneumatic Despatch Railway
tunnel in London.
> In reality, the original Manhattan subway line was a pneumatic gadget
> invented by a dr. beach.
For suitable values of "line". It was a demonstration project with
just one station.
> It was discovered under city hall after nearly a hundred years of
> lostness.
It wasn't under the city hall and it wasn't lost, although it was
little remembered. For the full story of Beach's project together
with great detail about related subjects, see this book-length web
article by Joe Brennan:
<http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beach/>
Here's a shorter article that I wrote earlier, which relates Beach's
project to other atmospheric and pneumatic railways.
http://www.davros.org/rail/atmospheric.html
This contains an erroneous statement that Beach's project was built
without permission; see Joe Brennan's article for the full story.
> It's much more difficult to hide or lose surface structures than
> underground structures.
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~a3cranda/Useless%20Knowledge%20Pages/Road%20Signs/Secret%20Nuclear%20Bunker.jpg
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "To great evils we submit; we resent
m...@vex.net little provocations." -- W. Hazlitt, 1822
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Hatunen
wrote:
>
>Robert Coe wrote:
>> [snip]
>
>Thanks for reviving the topic.
>
>The LIRR spur under atlatic avenue in brooklyn was discovered, at least
>according to my memory, only when it filled up with a gas leak and then
>exploded.
>
>Fictionally, forgotten tunnels in Manhattan were used by Doctor Savage,
>by Fu Man Chu, and, i think, by Batman.
And Lex Luthor in the Superman movies.
>In reality, the original Manhattan subway line was a pneumatic gadget
>invented by a dr. beach. It was discovered under city hall after nearly
>a hundred years of lostness.
"Invented" is a difficult word here; he was copying some other
pneumatic transport devices.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
David DeLaney
>by Fu Man Chu, and, i think, by Batman.
I believe they showed up in the Wild Cards series too, but can't remember
details right now. (Yes, I know the motto contest is closed, sorry.)
>It's much more difficult to hide or lose surface structures than
>underground structures. Can you imagine the Empire State Bldg being
>lost for a hundred years?
Depends where in the Western US it got lost.
Dave "New Mexico, for example, is where they store all the unused scenery from
the other states" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
There may be some sort of re-flooding-with-old-posts going on, recently; VIC
has taken to dribbling stuff from 2004 every so often into otherwise up-to-date
newsgroups. And sometimes to dumping thousands of old posts in at once.
Dave "hoping, in a way, it -is- just my server" DeLaney
mars...@gmail.com
The actual plans were developed by the Kriegsmarine and pre-date the Luftwaffe; they were based on WWI conditions, but there were actual plans afoot to cripple the anthracite industry, which would have virtually shut down the eastern PA steel making as well.
Chamberlain is now owned by General Dynamics and they make the forged bodies for 105mm artillery, 120mm mortars and 155mm artillery ammunition.
qexplosives are handled in the downtown Scranton plant.
The subway is unused but still exists; it is underneath the former DL&W locomotive shops, and traveled underneath South Washington Ave to the LCL and storage buildings that are in the area where the new Scranton Police Headquarters are.
I have some pictures, maps and diagrams in my Library, from the Tabor books on the Lackawanna. If I can get permission, I'll scan them.
mark.ka...@gmail.com
John Levine
Sounds like the Crown Ave tunnel. It's over 4700 feet long, but it's
not exactly hidden, since the Electric City Trolley Museum runs
trolley excursions through it.
See http://www.ectma.org/
--
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly