LACMTA heritage fleet?
Dennis Coady
bus, I think in the 5800 series, painted in LAMTA two-tone green
(Metropolitan Coach Lines green if it is old enough). Does LACMTA
maintain a fleet of historic vehicles?
I have seen junk yards appearantly devoted to retired RTD buses in
Rosamond, Kramers Corner (w. of Victorvile), and out around Rialto or
Colton. Any other collections?
Gsoma
(Dennis Coady) writes:
>I think in the 5800 series, painted in LAMTA two-tone green
>(Metropolitan Coach Lines green if it is old enough).
5808
Fred B Young Jr
>About six months ago I saw at LAMTA's Chatsworth yard an old Flxble
>bus, I think in the 5800 series, painted in LAMTA two-tone green
>(Metropolitan Coach Lines green if it is old enough). Does LACMTA
>maintain a fleet of historic vehicles?
There is also a 1958 GMC "Old Look" bus in the 5100 series (might be 5189), also dressed up in
LAMTA green that they've used at various functions. It's located at the CMF most of the time,
although I've also seen it at Division 2.
Gsoma
writes:
>here is also a 1958 GMC "Old Look" bus in the 5100 series (might be
5189),
>also
5193 :)
Pierre A Plauzoles
I have seen both types at Chatsworth recently; I think it was in the two or
three weeks around the time of the latest "big shindig" (I thing it was
the opening of the Green Line, but I'm not sure).
--
Pierre Plauzoles ae...@lafn.org
Canoga Park, California
M Greene
to yo...@bcf.usc.edu(Fred B. Young Jr.) who was responding to LZFZ51A@
prodigy.com(Dennis Coady):
> >>About six months ago I saw at LAMTA's Chatsworth yard an old Flxble
> >>bus, I think in the 5800 series, painted in LAMTA two-tone green
> >>(Metropolitan Coach Lines green if it is old enough). Does LACMTA
> >>maintain a fleet of historic vehicles?
> ><snip>
> >
> >There is also a 1958 GMC "Old Look" bus in the 5100 series (might be 5189), also dressed up in
> >LAMTA green that they've used at various functions. It's located at the CMF most of the time,
> >although I've also seen it at Division 2.
>
> I have seen both types at Chatsworth recently; I think it was in the two or
> three weeks around the time of the latest "big shindig" (I thing it was
> the opening of the Green Line, but I'm not sure).
>
Isn't there also bus 6500 in this fleet(the last number the
TDH4510 bought by Pacific Electric wore)? I seem to recall years ago
reading in Bus World that this bus was to be preserved by SCRTD. Just
curious to see if this was done.
Later
Michael T. Greene
Richard Eyre-Eagles
: although I've also seen it at Division 2.
Are you sure that was not a 2100 series old look? If I remember, the
5100 series were GMCS used for the old "Airport Express" routes (no
rear door). If I remember correctly, this series was the only ones that
had manual transmissions during it's era.
--
==================================================================
Richard Eyre-Eagles, KJ7MU | "The opinions expressed are not
Tempe, Arizona | those of anyone but myself"
==================================================================
goodnet is good
primenet is bad
Arizona, you have a choice
Richard Eyre-Eagles
: I have seen junk yards appearantly devoted to retired RTD buses in
: Colton. Any other collections?
I know the owner in Kramer. This lot is located at US395 and SR-58 in
Boron. Those buses are for sale, he will convert them. He has some of
the Flx 7100 series RTDs and even cuter, he has some of the old 31'
Flxibles used for RTD's old "Minibus" services (white with the red
'awning' style roofs). It's a shame there are no GMCs there.
A friend of mine has a lot in Perris, CA with nothing but GMC new looks.
He has restored some of them to the old MTA colors (Green). He even has
some of the old rollsigns in them. He also has some buses from the SF
Bay Area (GGT, Muni) and from san Diego Transit.
Gsoma
Eyre-Eagles) writes:
>Are you sure that was not a 2100 series old look? If I remember, the
>5100 series were GMCS used for the old "Airport Express" routes (no
>rear door). If I remember correctly, this series was the only ones that
>had manual transmissions during it's era.
>
>
Those were 2000 series buses (not 2100 :) ). Later on RTD aquired the
5500, 5600, then finally the 3000 series buses. The 3000's replaced(?)
the 2000's as airport express buses.
Fred B Young Jr
>: There is also a 1958 GMC "Old Look" bus in the 5100 series (might be 5189), also dressed up in
>: LAMTA green that they've used at various functions. It's located at the CMF most of the time,
>: although I've also seen it at Division 2.
>
>5100 series were GMCS used for the old "Airport Express" routes (no
>rear door). If I remember correctly, this series was the only ones that
>had manual transmissions during it's era.
You're thinking of the 2000 series. While I never saw them on the Airport Express routes, I did see
them on the 496 (L.A.-Riverside-San Bernardino) and the old 860 route (Long
Beach-Disneyland-Riverside). The Airport Express used 3000s (Late 60s GMC TDH-5301s in
commuter mode (Front Door only, manual transmission (toward the end of their careers they were
converted to automatic transmission))) and 5600s (Mid 60s Flxibles, also manual transmission etc).
Fred B. Young Jr.
USC-University of Southern California
yo...@bcf.usc.edu
Fred B Young Jr
Stephen J. Hoskins
Coady) writes:
>
>I have seen junk yards appearantly devoted to retired RTD buses in
>Rosamond, Kramers Corner (w. of Victorvile), and out around Rialto or
>Colton. Any other collections?
Those yards you mention aren't exactly "collections" for historical
purposes. The yard in Colton is A to Z Bus Sales. The yard in Kramers
Corner (on 395) is Zackers Salvage. A-Z resells the buses, many of
them locally in southern California. They also cannibalize them and
sell the parts. The ones out at Zackers are sold in dribs and drabs,
mostly south of the border. There hasn't been much activity in THAT
field as right after Zacker bought them all up, the Mexican government
passed a new law, something to the effect that buses bought used cannot
be over a certain age, or they can't even come in from the USA (not
that it hasn't stopped loads of them anyway). I am not sure of the
specifics of that law, but have heard lots of mention of variations of
it.
Stephen J. Hoskins
>You're thinking of the 2000 series. While I never saw them on the
>Airport Express routes, I did see them on the 496 (L.A.-Riverside-San
>Bernardino) and the old 860 route (Long Beach-Disneyland-Riverside).
>The Airport Express used 3000s (Late 60s GMC TDH-5301s in commuter
>mode (Front Door only, manual transmission (toward the end of their
>careers they were converted to automatic transmission))) and 5600s
>(Mid 60s Flxibles, also manual transmission etc).
>
>Fred B. Young Jr.
The 2000's were briefly used on Airport Express routes but none were
ever painted in the special paint scheme that was used on buses later
assigned to this service. They didn't last very long; used only for a
short time after AirporTransit went out of business until Airport
Service Inc. successfully gained the franchise to run the downtown L.A.
and Hollywood routes that originated at AirporTransit.
The 3000 series buses (3000-3014) were 1967 S8M5303A's. This is the
suburban "cousin" of the "TDH" transit series; the TDH5301's were made
from 1960-1962. I'm not sure where SCRTD got the automatic
transmissions that were later put in this series of buses, but the
automatic transmission sure slowed the bus down. I can remember days
of the stick-shifts in the 3000's and they would literally FLY between
L.A. and Pomona when it used to be the Line 60F (later 496).
The Flxibles you mention were 5600-5624; those were 1965 suburbans.
Not sure of the model number. One still floats around the southern
California area converted to a motor home. These also were converted
to automatics in the mid-1970's, and they, too, were slowed down quite
a bit. One SCRTD driver claimed these buses would do 95 miles an hour
when they had the stick shifts. (I'd say he was close, they would do
about 25 in FIRST gear!!)
undercover
Jerry Duncan retired February 25, 1994, from Division 9 after 25 years
with RTD/MTA.
"Driving a bus was such a satisfying career for me that when I had more
time available,I knew I wanted to spend it driving and maintaining buses
for the Pacific Bus Museum." said Jerry
And he so did. Located in the City of Industry, the museum houses some
60 historic buses, about 15 of which are owned by the museum and another
45 buses are owned by its members. The museum also has a base at
Williams, California, 60 miles west of Sacramento, where about 50 antique
buses are on display. The total membership between the two locations is
about 125 members, including several other RTD/MTA employees or retirees.
The Pacific Bus Museum had a prominent display at the Division 9 Open
House on September 23, 1995. Besides the hisoric MTA owned bus-a 1958
GMC, with its two-tone green and white color scheme, No. 5193-the museum
provided five buses for the open house. Two of the buses are fully
restored: a 1971 RTD Flxible bus, No. 7103, and a 1961 MTA GMC bus, No.
5302. Also on display were a 1958 MTA GMC suburban transit bus, with high
back seats and one door, No. 2028; a 1963 MTA Flxible transit bus,
semi-restored, No 5808; and a 1958 Greyhound Mack transit bus, No 1962.
Retired Operator Duncan noted that the museum display was a big hit with
the many community members who turned out for the event. He said that
museum buses will be displayed at several other MTA division open houses.
Also of interest to long-time MTA employees and retirees is the 1971
Flxible bus that was on display, bus 7103, which was restored in honor of
George Powell. For many years, George was in charge of bus maintenance
for the former RTD and was working for the agency back when it was first
call the MTA. He continues to serve as an active advisor to the museum,
which used to be called the West Coast Motor Coach Museum. Bus 7103 was
bought in his honor by the museum.
*******************
The purpose of the Pacific Bus Museum is to preserve and restore buses
that represent various transit companies throughout the years, with
emphasis on buses from transit operations in California. The museum's
secretary,Stephin Schwargwald, states he believes there are several
mutual interests between the museum and MTA. For example, the museum is a
resoruce to educate MTA employees about the historic role transit buses
have played over the years in the region. Not only is it a source of
information, the museum is a moral booster for many employees.
The museum considers that another opportunity for a joint endeavor with
the MTA would be day-long bus excursions using historic buses. The
excursions are successful in the Bay Area, Stephin notes, both as a
promotion for the museum and for the transit agency involved.
MTA employees and their families who would like more information can call
(310) 271-4106. The Pacific Bus Museum is usually open on Sundays
between 12 Noon and 5 p.m.; however visitors should call first.
M Greene
responded to yo...@bcf.usc.edu(Fred B Young Jr)(I'm also reposting the
original m.t.u-t post in la.transportation)
> In <4gi6ga$7...@usc.edu> Fred B Young Jr <yo...@bcf.usc.edu> writes:
>
> >You're thinking of the 2000 series. While I never saw them on the
> >Airport Express routes, I did see them on the 496 (L.A.-Riverside-San
> >Bernardino) and the old 860 route (Long Beach-Disneyland-Riverside).
> >The Airport Express used 3000s (Late 60s GMC TDH-5301s in commuter
> >mode (Front Door only, manual transmission (toward the end of their
> >careers they were converted to automatic transmission))) and 5600s
> >(Mid 60s Flxibles, also manual transmission etc).
> >
> >Fred B. Young Jr.
>
> The 2000's were briefly used on Airport Express routes but none were
> ever painted in the special paint scheme that was used on buses later
> assigned to this service. They didn't last very long; used only for a
> short time after AirporTransit went out of business until Airport
> Service Inc. successfully gained the franchise to run the downtown L.A.
> and Hollywood routes that originated at AirporTransit.
Some of them, I think, made it into 1980.
>
> The 3000 series buses (3000-3014) were 1967 S8M5303A's.
If they were 1967, they were SDM5302's. S8M5303A's weren't
built until 1968.
> This is the
> suburban "cousin" of the "TDH" transit series; the TDH5301's were made
> from 1960-1962. I'm not sure where SCRTD got the automatic
> transmissions that were later put in this series of buses, but the
> automatic transmission sure slowed the bus down. I can remember days
> of the stick-shifts in the 3000's and they would literally FLY between
> L.A. and Pomona when it used to be the Line 60F (later 496).
You also forgot the 5500 series TDM5301's. These were numbered
5500-5529, and were transit-type bodies, but with high-back seats.
>
> The Flxibles you mention were 5600-5624; those were 1965 suburbans.
> Not sure of the model number.
The model number was FDV8C-401-7-UL-AC, and came in 1966.
> One still floats around the southern
> California area converted to a motor home. These also were converted
> to automatics in the mid-1970's, and they, too, were slowed down quite
> a bit. One SCRTD driver claimed these buses would do 95 miles an hour
> when they had the stick shifts. (I'd say he was close, they would do
> about 25 in FIRST gear!!)
Hope this helps.
Later
Michael T. Greene
Stephen J. Hoskins
writes:
>
>If they were 1967, they were SDM5302's. S8M5303A's weren't
>built until 1968.
Oh, well, I was going by some data which showed the dates they were
ORDERED by SCRTD. I did check my complete GMC New Look coach
production record and it showed they were delivered in 5/68.
>>The Flxibles you mention were 5600-5624; those were 1965 suburbans.
>> Not sure of the model number.
>
> The model number was FDV8C-401-7-UL-AC, and came in 1966.
These must have been later than 1965. My Flxible records don't show
the production date, but they were the next to last order of the
suburbans produced. The LAST one went to the Atomic Energy Commission,
and really weren't suburbans, they were designated as such, but were
listed with transit serial numbers.
Thanks for the help!
Big Don
> RETIRED OPERATOR SHIFTS GEARS TO DRIVE MUSEUM BUSES
>
> Jerry Duncan retired February 25, 1994, from Division 9 after 25 years
> with RTD/MTA.
>
> "Driving a bus was such a satisfying career for me that when I had more
*******************
> time available,I knew I wanted to spend it driving and maintaining buses
> for the Pacific Bus Museum." said Jerry
Poor ol' Jerry must have missed those satisfying LOOT_End_of_Line snacks...
Big Don
No LOOT Belches !!
M Greene
whose name wasn't listed(I've reposted the original article to la.
transportation, for those la.transportation followers who didn't see
this the first time)
> : There is also a 1958 GMC "Old Look" bus in the 5100 series (might be 5189), also dressed up in
> : LAMTA green that they've used at various functions. It's located at the CMF most of the time,
> : although I've also seen it at Division 2.
>
> Are you sure that was not a 2100 series old look? If I remember, the
> 5100 series were GMCS used for the old "Airport Express" routes (no
> rear door). If I remember correctly, this series was the only ones that
> had manual transmissions during it's era.
>
The 5100 series were actually 2 groups of TDH4801's. Numbers
5100-5149 were ordered by Los Angeles Transit Lines. Numbers 5150-
5199 were ordered by Metropolitan Coach Lines(successor to the Pacific
Electric passenger business) as their 620-669. Both were delivered to
LAMTA in 1958, after both companies(and, if effect, Asbury Rapid Transit)
were acquired. The 2100 series was the MCL 500 series TDH4801's.
For the record, the only mechanical-shift 4801's (TDM4801)were
built for Pacific Greyhound in 1954. I think these buses were intended
for Bay Area service, but some(or possibly all) doubtless saw some
service in the Los Angeles area.
Celebrating 40 years of dispensing occasionally useful tidbits
of information...live, from Philadelphia,PA...
Later
Michael T. Greene
Stephen J. Hoskins
writes:
> For the record, the only mechanical-shift 4801's (TDM4801)were
>built for Pacific Greyhound in 1954. I think these buses were
>intended for Bay Area service, but some(or possibly all) doubtless saw
>some service in the Los Angeles area.
For the record, the 2000-sries LAMTA/SCRTD buses being discussed
(2025-2044) were model TDM4515's built in 1958 or 1959 (I don't have my
GM production lists handy...)
The Greyhound TDM4801's did make it to the Los Angeles area, for how
long I do not know, but I do remember seeing them on the route that ran
from Santa Monica to Long Beach by way of Los Angeles International
Airport. I also remember seeing some of the TDM5303's (the "New Look"
with standard transmission) on this route. I believe they worked out
of the same pool that supplied the San Diego-Tijuana Border route that
Greyhound operated. Some of the TDM5303's were even painted in GREEN
and red (Mexico colors) instead of the standard blue and red. The
5303's were numbered in the 9600 series.
One of the TDM4801's, formerly Greyhound 9400, worked for a local
shuttle/tour bus area around Disneyland for awhile. It became Town
Tour Funbus #708. They sold it off around 1977 or so; the company went
out of business in 1987.
M Greene
responded to mgr...@voicenet.com(The birthday boy)
>
> For the record, the 2000-sries LAMTA/SCRTD buses being discussed
> (2025-2044) were model TDM4515's built in 1958 or 1959 (I don't have my
> GM production lists handy...)
I think these buses were 1955 buses,from the MCL 251-267 series
of buses, along possibly with others, so there may have been some from
1958 and 1959. There were buses in the 2400 series, which were TDM4515
buses with 41 seats;these came in 2 groups in 1955 and 1958. The 1958
group was ordered by MCL, but were delivered to LAMTA.
> I also remember seeing some of the TDM5303's (the "New Look"
> with standard transmission) on this route.(A Greyhound-operated Los
Angeles suburban route)
> I believe they worked out
> of the same pool that supplied the San Diego-Tijuana Border route that
> Greyhound operated. Some of the TDM5303's were even painted in GREEN
> and red (Mexico colors) instead of the standard blue and red. The
> 5303's were numbered in the 9600 series.
These also ran in the Bay Area. I remember seeing them in the
late 1970's on SAMTRANS runs into San Francisco.
>
> One of the TDM4801's, formerly Greyhound 9400, worked for a local
> shuttle/tour bus area around Disneyland for awhile. It became Town
> Tour Funbus #708. They sold it off around 1977 or so; the company went
> out of business in 1987.
Just out of curiosity, what was the "Green Tortoise" TDM4801's
original Greyhound number?
Later
Michael T. Greene