FAQ LOOT
David McLoughlin
The most frequently asked FAQ of all in mtu-t:
Q: What is meant by all these references to LOOT and LOOT rail?
Nobody can answer this better than Sandy Smith of Philadelphia, PA,
(Exile On Market Street). This is his classic answer to the Number One
question in this newsgroup:
From: smi...@pobox.upenn.edu (Exile on Market Street)
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit
Subject: Re: Newbie asks, What is LOOT?
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 16:12:59 -0500
Actually, the "LOOT..." construction originated 'way back in the early
days of m.t.u-t -- mid-'94 or thereabouts.
One of the handful of *ir*rational transit-phobes who lurk and
occasionally post here found an item in _U.S. News & World Report_
about Baltimore's Central Light Rail Line, and some unhappy residents
of Linthicum, a southern suburb of Baltimore that had recently gotten
a station on the line.
According to the article, there had been an increase in burglaries and
other crimes since the station opened, and as a result, the locals had
taken to calling the line "loot rail" (note lower case).
It was this that our friend BigDon seized upon, starting one of the
first genuine flamefests on this newsgroup. As Neal noted, he now
liberally sprinkles the adjective (in all caps) in front of almost any
noun – to quote him, "No LOOT *.*!" -- and the rest of us have
semi-gleefully joined in the practice where appropriate.
This, perhaps, should be item #1 in any m.t.u-t FAQ.
-----------
This was followed up almost two years later by an update to the
Baltimore "loot rail" story posted by David McLoughlin, who found
relevant information in the UK magazine -Light Rail & Modern Tramway-
(now -Tramways & Urban Transit- ):
Subject: Original LOOT Rail Update
From: David McLoughlin <dav...@iprolink.co.nz>
Date: 1997/01/19
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit
For those who've enjoyed the LOOT Rail saga on this newsgroup, or for
those who are plain mystified how it came about, I have come across an
interesting update of the original LOOT rail story which launched Big
Don and countless others on the group's longest running flame war.
The update is in the December 1996 issue of Light Rail & Modern
Tramway (UK) [...] There is a largish article on extensions to the
Baltimore (US) light rail system which refers to the original LOOT
rail item which was published in US News & World Report. For those who
don't know the background, the original report concerned residents of
the nice Baltimore enclave of Linthicum who claimed the opening of a
light rail stop in their area had enabled criminals from central
Baltimore to get to their area, burgle their homes and escape by light
rail with the loot. Hence the term "loot rail," turned into "LOOT
rail" on this newsgroup.
Enough of background: Here is the quote in the December LR&MT I wish
to share with Big Don and everyone else here:
"[...] It was also discovered that the majority of the thefts in
Linthicum which had started the whole uproar HAD BEEN COMMITTED BY
JUVENILES IN THE COMMUNITY."
(Emphasis added.)
Well, I think the latter revelation puts a different complexion on the
whole debate. Has anyone, anywhere, actually ever seen anyone rob a
bank or burgle a house and escape by bus or trolley?
-----------
To which some commonsense was posted on this issue by Anthony
Matheson:
Subject:
Sidelight on LOOT comment in FAQ
Date:
Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:10:13 GMT
From:
Anthony....@amath.demINSERTon.co.uk (Anthony
Matheson)
I'm a newcomer to the group and, glancing through the FAQ, I noticed
the following aside:
>Has anyone, anywhere, actually ever seen anyone rob a bank or burgle a house and >escape by bus or trolley?'
Well, I have, almost. I live in London, UK. Some 12 or more years ago,
I went into a branch of Lloyd's Bank at Swiss Cottage in North London.
I immediately noticed the atmosphere was more highly charged than the
usual somnolent air. Two police officers ran in just after me.
Apparently there had just been a hold-up. I listened to the police
questions and got the story.
A young man dashed into the bank, where about 4 people were waiting
for service. He produced a gun (or a model) and went to the nearest
window. Unfortunately (for him), the woman on that till was just at
that moment called away to take a phone call. She locked the till and
left without even noticing the man. He turned to the customers and
demanded their wallets. They handed them over but, as they were
waiting, among other things, to draw cash, the wallets were mostly
empty. The young man then ran out.
"Did he have a car?", asked one of the police officers.
"No," said the teller. "He went down into the Underground station."
So, having pulled one of the worst bank jobs in history, this guy
attempted to make his getaway on public transport. I expect there was
a signal failure just at that moment.
From what I read of Big Don's history, I wouldn't be a fan of his
standpoint, but maybe this will help calm his fears. Public transport
probably just brings in a few incompetent criminals. That will take
your mind off the really competent ones who will continue to get away
with their large-scale crimes as before, because they're so competent
you don't even know they're doing it.
And from George Scithers
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:17:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: WooF <owls...@netaxs.com>
A question was posed in the FAQ about any burglar making his escape by
transit. Around here (Western suburbs of Philadelphia), one almost did
a few years ago. He was trying to make his escape by catching the
Norristown High Speed Line (former Philadelphia & Western, a surviving
interurban line, no grade [level] crossings, all high platform, all
third rail, mostly single-car operation). In his haste, and because he
was encumbered by a bag of his loot, he fell between platform and
moving car and was fatally squished.
Service on the line was briefly disrupted.
--
To which Daniel Webster (daniel_...@my-deja.com) added on June 10
1999:
> Well, I think the latter revelation puts a different complexion on the
> whole debate. Has anyone, anywhere, actually ever seen anyone rob a
> bank or burgle a house and escape by bus or trolley?
Yes, absolutely!
In Seattle, Washington, USA. A guy was using the bus system to dash in
and rob businesses, running from one place to another across the
street, getting back on a bus, etc. This happened just within the last
year.
At least one of the businesses has installed cameras and monitors, and
other hidden security measures, and enlisted the aid of nearby
merchants for help in the event of another emergency. The shop now has
a website and is trying to recover their loss.
http://pizazz.com/Seattle/clothing/simuel
Maybe I'm partial to the underdog (or victimized people), but after
seeing the community come to their aid I'm proud to be from Seattle!
Wouldn't it be great if every town helped each other like that?
Sincerely,
Daniel (A new anti-LOOTer.)
-------------------------------------------
Who is this Big Don?
Big Don (real name Don Anderson) lives in the Seattle area in the
state of Washington in the USA.. Now retired, he launched a prolific
newsgroup war against a proposal for rail transit improvements in the
Seattle-Tacoma area. Don saw the proposals as likely to allow the
residents of Tacoma (whom he saw as welfare "scum") to "LOOT" his
house by enabling them to catch a train to his place. Big Don might
seem like a stereotype Archie Bunker but many posters to the group
accept that some of his points about state-funding of welfare schemes
are valid, if greatly exaggerated, though wonder about the relevance
of some of his comments to public transit.
Big Don created various phrases which continue to mystify readers of
mtu-t. What FAQ would be complete without a few words of wisdom from
BigDon himself describing these terms?
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit
Subject: LOOT_Faq (was: LOOTed Developments...)
From: Big Don (big...@eskimo.com)
> Please define: LOOT, PS8Scum.
> I get the general idea from the context, but it would be nice to know
> the actual expanded forms.
LOOT - In general, a symbolic reference to the existence of
ilk from the subclass of humanity that perpetrate most
property
crime and violent crime, that predominately live in areas
where
public transit is available, i.e., relatively few live in
areas
where public transit is NOT available.
PS8Scum - Parasitic Section_8 Scum: Those folks who live on Section_8
subsidized housing vouchers, food stamps, medicaid AND who
are culturally conditioned to believe they DESERVE all
this as some sort of GOD_GIVEN right, and indeed tend
to continually demand more. They are heavy users of public
transit, if they own/drive cars, they don't have any
insurance.
A high proportion have criminal records for petty theft,
drugs,
and domestic violence. Virtually all PS8Scum births are OOW
and
taxpayer-funded.
OOW - Out Of Wedlock
***
* And some more recent ones Don has added to his store in 1998:
DAFNs - Darling America's Finest Nationals
LOOT -- Living Off Others’ Taxes (an alternative to LOOT Rail, it
seems)
----------------
Big Don is not universally popular on mtu-t, but when he turned 60 in
1997, many regulars of the group showered him with accolades. His
response below, to a generic post by group stalwart Colin Leech of
Ottawa, Canada, also includes some of the ASCII art for which Big Don
is famous (or infamous):
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday to Big Don
From: Big Don <big...@eskimo.com>
Date: 1997/10/28
Message-ID: <345664...@eskimo.com>
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit
[More Headers]
Colin R. Leech wrote:
> John Ballentine (bal...@aztec.asu.edu) wrote:
>> October 27, 1937 was a big day in the history of public transit. On that
>> historic day the man who we now know as the scourge of LOOTers was born.
>> That man was our own Big Don. So, let us all drink a round to celebrate
>> his birthday.
> Happy 60th, big guy! To celebrate, we had a nice LOOT fluffy snowfall here
> in Ottawa on Monday. Just great for cycling in. :-)
Big Don is deeply touched by the massive outpouring of sentiments,
warmth, and LOOT_Fuzziness....
big don
_ L-O-O-X-x-xxxxzzz....~~
/
/ "Hey, how we 'sposed to git anywhere ??"
o_II_-__-__-----____________
----------------/========================\
I_________I__I I Immobilized PS8Scum & LOOTers
I
/-o--0-0-0-0~~~~~o=o~==~o=o~~~o==o~~~~~~o==o~~~o=o=o~~~~~~~~~~o=o=o~~~~
** The Seattle-Tacoma Crack-Cocaine Express parks for a LOOT_Free
Honorary Day **
------------------
Some posters are, however, fortunately (for the future of urban
transit) cynical about the attitudes displayed by Big Don and Co. See
for example this post by Michael Greene:
From: MGr...@voicenet.com (M Greene)
To: ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Colin R. Leech)
Subject: Re: Origin of Newsgroup Jargon
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:04:28 GMT
Anyway, perhaps it's time to add another listing to the FAQ on Jargon:
The "Big Don" Syndrome(somewhat related to NIMBYism), where people
along a proposed transit artery are opposed to its construction due to
the possibility that people deemed "undesirable" may travel to/through
their areas. In the Philadelphia/South Jersey area, such arguments
have been used currently, as well as in the past, to delay or kill,
construction of transit lines, such as the Northeast Extension of the
Broad Street Subway, as well as the Gloucester County(N.J.)light
rail/modified PATCO line.
If this may make it, make sure that I get credit for the line(assuming
I don't decide to use it first-I decided to run it by both of you ) *
Later
Michael T. Greene
Phaethon
"David McLoughlin" <dav...@REMOVEiprolink.co.nz> wrote in message
news:38951ef4...@news.iprolink.co.nz...
> MTUT LOOT FAQ
> This, perhaps, should be item #1 in any m.t.u-t FAQ.
>
> -----------
>
>
>
> Big Don (real name Don Anderson) lives in the Seattle area in the
> state of Washington in the USA.. Now retired, he launched a prolific
> newsgroup war against a proposal for rail transit improvements in the
> Seattle-Tacoma area. Don saw the proposals as likely to allow the
> residents of Tacoma (whom he saw as welfare "scum") to "LOOT" his
> transit) cynical about the attitudes displayed by Big Don and Co. See
> for example this post by Michael Greene:
>
> From: MGr...@voicenet.com (M Greene)
> To: ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Colin R. Leech)
> Subject: Re: Origin of Newsgroup Jargon
> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:04:28 GMT
>
> Anyway, perhaps it's time to add another listing to the FAQ on Jargon:
>
> The "Big Don" Syndrome(somewhat related to NIMBYism), where people
> along a proposed transit artery are opposed to its construction due to
> the possibility that people deemed "undesirable" may travel to/through
> their areas. In the Philadelphia/South Jersey area, such arguments
> have been used currently, as well as in the past, to delay or kill,
> construction of transit lines, such as the Northeast Extension of the
> Broad Street Subway, as well as the Gloucester County(N.J.)light
> rail/modified PATCO line.
>
> If this may make it, make sure that I get credit for the line(assuming
> I don't decide to use it first-I decided to run it by both of you ) *
>
> Later
> Michael T. Greene
>
Mr. Greene's comments about the Gloucester County Light Rail System are
about 180 degrees off the mark. But he's entitled to his OPINION.
Ron Brittin
http://home.att.net/~notrain
David McLoughlin
>
> Where's BIG DON now?
He's about. He went into deep bunkering mode fearing the worst on
January 1, but he's emerged since. Your comment will probably bring him
out.
The E-mail address listed here isn't valid.
>
He has changed his email address but still uses the (invalid) eskimo one
in his posts.
David McLoughlin
Auckland New Zealand
Phaethon
"David McLoughlin" <davemcl@AXE*THISiprolink.co.nz> wrote in message
news:389e...@news.iprolink.co.nz...
> Phaethon wrote:
> >
>
> > Where's BIG DON now?
>
> He's about. He went into deep bunkering mode fearing the worst on
> January 1, but he's emerged since. Your comment will probably bring him
> out.
don't believe. I had hoped to find someone who had opposed Light Rail with
research and facts.
South Jersey(NJ) Light Rail opponents have listened to misplaced
charges of racism since a slick magazine (NJ Monthly) published a slanted
article in 1997. Light Rail is being used in South Jersey as the vehicle to
increase population density in otherwise well developed residential
communites. There are many downsides to urban life which most of the
residents of these towns have intentionally avoided.
Personally, I just don't want the noise.
Ron Brittin