Re: Oh No not again
C. Dewick
>On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:54:53 +1000, "Uncle Joe" <be...@over.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Tcard: here we go again
>>
>>Linton Besser Transport Reporter
>>July 3, 2008
>>
>>
>It's beyond me why they wouldn't put the readers on the trains rather
>than at station entrances. Then a fare scale could be developed
>according to distance travelled over a period of time and travellers
>would not need to "tag in". Make it a sliding scale by all means, just
>not sliding as much as it does now.
Putting 'mobile' devices on trains requires 100 percent 'live' wireless
technology to get it working accurately and properly, but that doesn't exist
at present. Even the existing CityRail train radio system does not have 100
percent coverage. There are some key places where drop-outs are frequent and
where signal coverage falls off to a point where an actual conversation
could not be carried out, even though the radio on the train can get enough
signal from the nearest base-station.
>Everyone knows that short haul trips make money (eg Bondi Junction to
>Central) but long haul ones don't. How can they, when a weekly Central
>to Bondi Junction costs 40% as much as Katoomba to Central although
>costing only 10% (and possibly less) of the amount to provide the
>service.
This is why the fare-structure is so badly skewed IMHO.
Craig.
--
Craig Dewick - HO-Scale Railway Modeller and Professional Train Manager at
http://lios.apana.org.au/~craigd or cra...@lios.apana.org.au if you're game!
RailZone Australia - http://www.railzone.org - No Fundies! No RailCorp CodeCon!
http://lios.apana.org.au/mailman/listinfo/aus_rail_safety for Oz Rail Safety
Matthew Geier
> x@x.x (Fish Womper) writes:
>
>>On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:54:53 +1000, "Uncle Joe" <be...@over.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>>Tcard: here we go again
>>>
>>>Linton Besser Transport Reporter
>>>July 3, 2008
>>>
>>>
>>It's beyond me why they wouldn't put the readers on the trains rather
>>than at station entrances.
What's the difference ?. You can only join/leave the train at a station,
so why add a reader to all many 1000's of train doors in the system
instead of the much lower number of station entrances.
The only thing i'd possible change is the range of the readers. Why 'tap-
n-go', when the reader field could be designed to read anything it finds
in a several square metre radius. (Although this stops the carrying of
multiple cards, which their may be legitimate reasons to do - say a work
card and a private one).
> Putting 'mobile' devices on trains requires 100 percent 'live' wireless
> technology to get it working accurately and properly,
The smart card systems currently deployed do not require 'live' access
to the back end. That's the major 'smart' bit about it - the ability to
run disconnected. (on a bus mainly).
Data is written to the card AND stored by the vehicle reader. In daily
use the system uses the data on the card to work out what's happening 'on
the spot'. On a bus for example, when the bus returns to the depot in the
evening, the data is downloaded and transmitted to the back end
processing facility that tallies it all up.
At the end of the day, the result the back end comes up with should
match the data stored in the users card. It will have multiple data
points collected during the day of the users card. Every thing should
match at all times.
If it doesn't, the card will be flagged for further investigation.
(possible card tampering fraud for example, although 'computer error' is
possible too).
Dik T. Winter
...
> The only thing i'd possible change is the range of the readers. Why 'tap-
> n-go', when the reader field could be designed to read anything it finds
> in a several square metre radius. (Although this stops the carrying of
> multiple cards, which their may be legitimate reasons to do - say a work
> card and a private one).
Overhere in Europe many people have multiple RFID cards in their pockets.
And quite legitimate. In the Netherlands for instance the ID-card. It
interferes with the public transport card.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
Paul Westcott
> C. Dewick wrote:
>> Fish Womper writes:
>>> Uncle Joe" wrote:
>>
>>>> Tcard: here we go again
>>>>
>>>> Linton Besser Transport Reporter
>>>> July 3, 2008
>>>>
>>> It's beyond me why they wouldn't put the readers on the trains rather
>>> than at station entrances.
>
> What's the difference ?. You can only join/leave the train at a station,
> so why add a reader to all many 1000's of train doors in the system
> instead of the much lower number of station entrances.
The reason that Myki is being trialled first on Geelong buses is that
the technology required to handle the ticket information emanating from
a mobile source is the hardest to get right.
Kamco have been testing for six months in Geelong and have most recently
reported a 90% success rate.
Paul Westcott
ten
>
> The only thing i'd possible change is the range of the readers. Why 'tap-
> n-go', when the reader field could be designed to read anything it finds
> in a several square metre radius. (Although this stops the carrying of
> multiple cards, which their may be legitimate reasons to do - say a work
> card and a private one).
>
>
Not a good idea at some stations where the T-Card readers were located
in public thoroughfares and could thus be activated when not required to be.
An example of this is Berala where the readers are located in the narrow
subway that links the north and south sides of the suburb. With your
range of 1 sq metre it would be almost impossible to walk through the
subway without activating one of the readers on either side.
David Johnson
> x@x.x (Fish Womper) writes:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:54:53 +1000, "Uncle Joe" <be...@over.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Tcard: here we go again
>>>
>>> Linton Besser Transport Reporter
>>> July 3, 2008
>>>
>>>
>> It's beyond me why they wouldn't put the readers on the trains rather
>> than at station entrances. Then a fare scale could be developed
>> according to distance travelled over a period of time and travellers
>> would not need to "tag in". Make it a sliding scale by all means, just
>> not sliding as much as it does now.
>
> Putting 'mobile' devices on trains requires 100 percent 'live' wireless
> technology to get it working accurately and properly, but that doesn't exist
> at present. Even the existing CityRail train radio system does not have 100
> percent coverage. There are some key places where drop-outs are frequent and
> where signal coverage falls off to a point where an actual conversation
> could not be carried out, even though the radio on the train can get enough
> signal from the nearest base-station.
There is a move to coincide with the introduction of the PPP trains to
have a permanent data link back to base using GSM technology.
--
---
Captain please, not in front of the Klingons.
---
David Johnson
usenet.at.trainman.id.au
http://www.trainman.id.au
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of RailCorp.
Matthew Geier
>> Putting 'mobile' devices on trains requires 100 percent 'live' wireless
>> technology to get it working accurately and properly, but that doesn't
>> exist at present. Even the existing CityRail train radio system does
>> not have 100 percent coverage. There are some key places where
>> drop-outs are frequent and where signal coverage falls off to a point
>> where an actual conversation could not be carried out, even though the
>> radio on the train can get enough signal from the nearest base-station.
>
> There is a move to coincide with the introduction of the PPP trains to
> have a permanent data link back to base using GSM technology.
There wouldn't be enough bandwidth on a mobile channel to deal with
several hundred transactions in a sort period of time - think of the
crush alighting and boarding at Town Hall in the peak.
But anyway, 'smart card' systems DON'T require a live link to the back
end. That's the 'smart' bit of the system - the secure data store on the
card itself.
You really only need intermittent connections to download collected
data. You could do that with 802.11 wireless in 'terminal' stations where
trains are stopped for a little while. They come into wireless range and
do a download.
The guys I work with have a vehicle tracking system like that - it's
intended for areas with poor to no phone coverage. The vehicles up load
their logs when the come back into 802.11 radio range automatically.