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ralph...@my-deja.com
Mar 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/11/00
to
I have some information here from a Cummins brochure on the LF 3000
Fleetguard combination lube filter that is interesting to me as a
bypass oil filter man. It is a chart that shows micron size and wear
rate. Because ring wear is the higest I will use it as an example. They
also show main and rod bearings wear.
Fleetguard combination lube filter that is interesting to me as a
bypass oil filter man. It is a chart that shows micron size and wear
rate. Because ring wear is the higest I will use it as an example. They
also show main and rod bearings wear.
0-1 UM almost 5 mg/hr
1-2 UM 10 mg/hr
2.5-5 UM almost 30 mg/hr
5-10 UM 45 mg/hr
10-20 UM about 38 mg/hr
The brochure says 3 micron filtration. As far as I know there are
several bypass filters that can filter down to under one UM. I have
owned 5 of them over the last 37 years. I know of no full flow filters
that have the capacity and depth to deal with 10-20 UM abrasives over
the length of the normal oil drain interval. If you notice there is a
point where the abrasives get too large to get under the rings and the
wear rate drops off.
Ralph
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rusty Wade
Mar 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/11/00
to
Het Ralph my new Cat has a spinner filter, Know anything about them?
Because I choose to be a long distance driver and work in an entirely
different structure, outside the union, does not mean that I am antiunion.
What it means is that I choose to live my life in a setting where the union has
no relevance.
Rusty
Because I choose to be a long distance driver and work in an entirely
different structure, outside the union, does not mean that I am antiunion.
What it means is that I choose to live my life in a setting where the union has
no relevance.
Rusty
Rusty Wade
Mar 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/11/00
to
Correction Mary' Cat engine has the spinner, Weird thing has a paper that you
fold in a circle and insert!!
fold in a circle and insert!!
ralph...@my-deja.com
Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
to
Hi,
One of my trucker friends asked me about the factory installed
centrifuge on his Mack. I have no personal experience with the
centrifuge filters except on a motorcycle. I called an expert with many
years of experience with these things on heavy marine engines and was
told to run the engine 10,000 miles with the centrifuge, take a sample
of oil and send it to the lab but don't change the oil. They go another
10,000 with one of the large double roll paper towel filters and send
another sample to the lab and compare the reports. On some of the
drilling rigs offshore they put the big paper towel filter down stream
of the centrifuge to get what the centrifuge missed on the fuel.
Companies such as Shell offshore are very big on oil analysis. My
opinion doesn't really mean much.
I am biased toward depth filters. I have an oil analysis report on a
Cat 3406 C, 550 HP in a 379 Pete. The oil was drained the last time at
7,946 miles. It now has 372,310 miles when the sample was taken. I have
another oil analysis on a 425 HP Detroit series 60 in a 1990 379 Pete
with 1,017,037 miles. 767,388 since its last oil drain. They both use
Shell Rotella 15-40 and Bounty big roll paper towels. The Detroit uses
paper towels for both the lube oil and fuel water seperator.
One of my trucker friends asked me about the factory installed
centrifuge on his Mack. I have no personal experience with the
centrifuge filters except on a motorcycle. I called an expert with many
years of experience with these things on heavy marine engines and was
told to run the engine 10,000 miles with the centrifuge, take a sample
of oil and send it to the lab but don't change the oil. They go another
10,000 with one of the large double roll paper towel filters and send
another sample to the lab and compare the reports. On some of the
drilling rigs offshore they put the big paper towel filter down stream
of the centrifuge to get what the centrifuge missed on the fuel.
Companies such as Shell offshore are very big on oil analysis. My
opinion doesn't really mean much.
I am biased toward depth filters. I have an oil analysis report on a
Cat 3406 C, 550 HP in a 379 Pete. The oil was drained the last time at
7,946 miles. It now has 372,310 miles when the sample was taken. I have
another oil analysis on a 425 HP Detroit series 60 in a 1990 379 Pete
with 1,017,037 miles. 767,388 since its last oil drain. They both use
Shell Rotella 15-40 and Bounty big roll paper towels. The Detroit uses
paper towels for both the lube oil and fuel water seperator.
Ralph
truckracer
Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
to
Ok, I have a lot of experience with the spinner type oil filters. I ran
them on 55 natural gas fired compressor engines ranging in horsepower from
650 to 2450.
They are very good at extending the life of the regular oil filters while
reducing sludge buildup in the crankcase and valve cover areas. They DO NOT
extend the life of the oil appreciably. We ran oil analysis every 30 days
(these engines run 24 hours a day, only shut down for maintenance). The
paper insert is to help clean the inside of the filter when it is serviced.
It's not necessary but the fine particles become very difficult to remove
from the inside without it.
Oh, no major company runs PAPER TOWEL OIL FILTERS in engines that cost
from 75,000 to 650,000 dollars, no maintenance manager such as myself wants
that type of liability. I worked for Gulf, Chevron, and Texaco and met many
others from majors at conferences and schools. Believe me, anyone selling
toilet paper or paper towel filters would be laughed right out the door..
them on 55 natural gas fired compressor engines ranging in horsepower from
650 to 2450.
They are very good at extending the life of the regular oil filters while
reducing sludge buildup in the crankcase and valve cover areas. They DO NOT
extend the life of the oil appreciably. We ran oil analysis every 30 days
(these engines run 24 hours a day, only shut down for maintenance). The
paper insert is to help clean the inside of the filter when it is serviced.
It's not necessary but the fine particles become very difficult to remove
from the inside without it.
Oh, no major company runs PAPER TOWEL OIL FILTERS in engines that cost
from 75,000 to 650,000 dollars, no maintenance manager such as myself wants
that type of liability. I worked for Gulf, Chevron, and Texaco and met many
others from majors at conferences and schools. Believe me, anyone selling
toilet paper or paper towel filters would be laughed right out the door..
<ralph...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8af1m2$8ac$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hi,
one...@my-deja.com
Mar 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/12/00
to
In article <8af1m2$8ac$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
ralph...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
> One of my trucker friends asked me about the factory installed
> centrifuge on his Mack. I have no personal experience with the
> centrifuge filters except on a motorcycle. I called an expert with
many
> years of experience with these things on heavy marine engines and was
> told to run the engine 10,000 miles with the centrifuge, take a sample
> of oil and send it to the lab but don't change the oil. They go
another
> 10,000 with one of the large double roll paper towel filters and send
> another sample to the lab and compare the reports. On some of the
> drilling rigs offshore they put the big paper towel filter down stream
> of the centrifuge to get what the centrifuge missed on the fuel.
ralph...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi,
> One of my trucker friends asked me about the factory installed
> centrifuge on his Mack. I have no personal experience with the
> centrifuge filters except on a motorcycle. I called an expert with
many
> years of experience with these things on heavy marine engines and was
> told to run the engine 10,000 miles with the centrifuge, take a sample
> of oil and send it to the lab but don't change the oil. They go
another
> 10,000 with one of the large double roll paper towel filters and send
> another sample to the lab and compare the reports. On some of the
> drilling rigs offshore they put the big paper towel filter down stream
> of the centrifuge to get what the centrifuge missed on the fuel.
> Companies such as Shell offshore are very big on oil analysis. My
> opinion doesn't really mean much.
> I am biased toward depth filters. I have an oil analysis report on a
> Cat 3406 C, 550 HP in a 379 Pete. The oil was drained the last time at
> 7,946 miles. It now has 372,310 miles when the sample was taken. I
have
> another oil analysis on a 425 HP Detroit series 60 in a 1990 379 Pete
> with 1,017,037 miles. 767,388 since its last oil drain. They both use
> Shell Rotella 15-40 and Bounty big roll paper towels. The Detroit uses
> paper towels for both the lube oil and fuel water seperator.
>
> Ralph
>
>
So Ralph.> opinion doesn't really mean much.
> I am biased toward depth filters. I have an oil analysis report on a
> Cat 3406 C, 550 HP in a 379 Pete. The oil was drained the last time at
> 7,946 miles. It now has 372,310 miles when the sample was taken. I
have
> another oil analysis on a 425 HP Detroit series 60 in a 1990 379 Pete
> with 1,017,037 miles. 767,388 since its last oil drain. They both use
> Shell Rotella 15-40 and Bounty big roll paper towels. The Detroit uses
> paper towels for both the lube oil and fuel water seperator.
>
> Ralph
>
>
What were the results of the tests that you mention? What is
the possibility of the paper towel roll disentigrating and
clogging oil journals? Has this ever happened to your knowlege?
onezman
ralph...@my-deja.com
Mar 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/14/00
to
Thanks for the info on the centrifuge. The centrifuge on my
motorcycle didn't have the paper. It was hard to clean.
I don't say much on the forums that I don't have the documentation to
prove. The US Air Force is the biggest user of the Gulf Coast paper
towel bypass filter. Shell Oil is the biggest major oil company user.
North Carolina DOT has their big Cat engines equipped on their ferry
boat system. Navistar Installs the Gulf Coast bypass filters on all
International trucks for NC DOT. The 379 Pete with over 1,000,000 miles
is owned by Pepsi of Gulfport, MS. Shell and Detroit are studying it so
it is well documented.
I know the Australians have us beat by a few million using paper
towel and toilet paper bypass filters but we are the first to get a
major oil company involved. Also there was a shipment of Gulf Coast
bypass filters recently sent to ARCO China. There are some at Cape
Canaveral now. One of their engineers saw one of my messages and asked
for documentation. I think he called everyone including the military. A
very brilliant man with an open mind.
motorcycle didn't have the paper. It was hard to clean.
I don't say much on the forums that I don't have the documentation to
prove. The US Air Force is the biggest user of the Gulf Coast paper
towel bypass filter. Shell Oil is the biggest major oil company user.
North Carolina DOT has their big Cat engines equipped on their ferry
boat system. Navistar Installs the Gulf Coast bypass filters on all
International trucks for NC DOT. The 379 Pete with over 1,000,000 miles
is owned by Pepsi of Gulfport, MS. Shell and Detroit are studying it so
it is well documented.
I know the Australians have us beat by a few million using paper
towel and toilet paper bypass filters but we are the first to get a
major oil company involved. Also there was a shipment of Gulf Coast
bypass filters recently sent to ARCO China. There are some at Cape
Canaveral now. One of their engineers saw one of my messages and asked
for documentation. I think he called everyone including the military. A
very brilliant man with an open mind.
Ralph
In article <vgQy4.12480$JQ.7...@monger.newsread.com>,
"truckracer" <par...@nospamtelepath.com> wrote:
Oh, no major company runs PAPER TOWEL OIL FILTERS in engines that cost
> from 75,000 to 650,000 dollars, no maintenance manager such as myself
wants
> that type of liability. I worked for Gulf, Chevron, and Texaco and
met many
> others from majors at conferences and schools. Believe me, anyone
selling
> toilet paper or paper towel filters would be laughed right out the
door..
>
> <ralph...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8af1m2$8ac$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Hi,
> > > Companies such as Shell offshore are very big on oil analysis. My
> > opinion doesn't really mean much.
> > I am biased toward depth filters. I have an oil analysis report on a
> > Cat 3406 C, 550 HP in a 379 Pete. The oil was drained the last time
at
> > 7,946 miles. It now has 372,310 miles when the sample was taken. I
have
> > another oil analysis on a 425 HP Detroit series 60 in a 1990 379
Pete
> > with 1,017,037 miles. 767,388 since its last oil drain. They both
use
> > Shell Rotella 15-40 and Bounty big roll paper towels. The Detroit
uses
> > paper towels for both the lube oil and fuel water seperator.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
ralph...@my-deja.com
Mar 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM3/16/00
to
There have been a lot of tests done on these filters. Shell Oil did a
test on the Gulf Coast bypass filters on oil field engines. It was very
technical and the results were printed in a 30 page report. Chevron did
a test on an offshore rig lift truck. The US Air Force test facility at
Eglin, FL has done a lot of testing of several filters including the
Gulf Coast filter. The 1990 Peterbilt is owned by Pepsi Cola of
Gulfport, MS. Pepsi has been using paper towel and toilet paper filters
for over 20 years. Covington Detroit of Nashville,TN is doing the
actual tear down and inspection of the series 60 Detroit 425 HP engine.
Shell engineers are there with sophistocated measuring equipment
checking for wear. The engine has had two oil drains. One time when the
engine was almost new and the break in oil was drained and Shell
Rotella 15-40 was put in. Once when an oil pan gasket was replaced
under warranty at 250,000. When the tear down is done the oil is
drained and poured back in. At 500,000 and 761,000 no measurable wear
could be found and the engine was very clean. At 1,017,037 there was no
measurable wear found. The hone marks were still in the liners. The
Detroit mechanic Ricky Cook said the rings needed to be replaced
because of a rich mixture caused by a split in the hose between the
turbo and the intercooler. The big 0-2 Gulf Coast filter is changed
every 10,000 give or take and 3 gallons of new Rotella poured in. Every
50,000 the full flow filters are changed also and about 5 1/2 gallons
of new oil is added. This is about equal to a full oil change every
40,000 miles. The oil is analyzed every 10,000 miles. For the system to
work you can't have any leaky head gaskets or internal fuel leaks. You
have to add enough new oil to keep the additives up. Oil analysis
checks for these things.
I've never known of paper getting into the oil. The way the testing
people check for that is they install a fuel filter in the return line
to the sump. They cut this filter open and check for paper fibers. As
you know on a diesel engine clean fuel is sometimes even more important
than clean oil. We use the more efficient paper towel F-1 as a primary
filter to keep the fuel clean and dry. We leave the stock filters in
place as a back up. The stock filters last indefinately because they
are getting precleaned fuel. If I had any concern about paper getting
into the oil system I would install a secondary filter down line from
the 0-2 or 0-1 Gulf Coast bypass filter. A spin on fuel filter and
holder would work fine. I would cut it open in 50,000 miles and check
for paper fibers. Paper fibers cannot go through a fuel filter. Almost
none of the users of these filters use a secondary filter. They
consider paper getting into the oil stream a non issue. They have been
used on light aircraft for 30 years that I know of. If you use Bounty
big roll paper towels the embossing will still be there in 10,000 miles
and you can tear the paper at each sheet. Oil makes paper very strong.
Fleet Guard and Luberfiner uses shredded newspapers in their bypass
filter elements. Cellulose and cotton are the best material for use in
oil and fuel filers. What is toilet paper and paper towels? economical
and high quality cellulose. A trucker can pull into a Wal-Mart and
stock up on oil and fuel filters and oil and keep on trucking. The only
filters that are as good as paper towels are too expensive to be
practical. The only way synthetic oil is economical is if you have
economical submicronic bypass oil filters that are effective at
eliminating routine oil drains. About the only advantage to synthetic
lubricants is better fuel economy and better cold weather service.
test on the Gulf Coast bypass filters on oil field engines. It was very
technical and the results were printed in a 30 page report. Chevron did
a test on an offshore rig lift truck. The US Air Force test facility at
Eglin, FL has done a lot of testing of several filters including the
Gulf Coast filter. The 1990 Peterbilt is owned by Pepsi Cola of
Gulfport, MS. Pepsi has been using paper towel and toilet paper filters
for over 20 years. Covington Detroit of Nashville,TN is doing the
actual tear down and inspection of the series 60 Detroit 425 HP engine.
Shell engineers are there with sophistocated measuring equipment
checking for wear. The engine has had two oil drains. One time when the
engine was almost new and the break in oil was drained and Shell
Rotella 15-40 was put in. Once when an oil pan gasket was replaced
under warranty at 250,000. When the tear down is done the oil is
drained and poured back in. At 500,000 and 761,000 no measurable wear
could be found and the engine was very clean. At 1,017,037 there was no
measurable wear found. The hone marks were still in the liners. The
Detroit mechanic Ricky Cook said the rings needed to be replaced
because of a rich mixture caused by a split in the hose between the
turbo and the intercooler. The big 0-2 Gulf Coast filter is changed
every 10,000 give or take and 3 gallons of new Rotella poured in. Every
50,000 the full flow filters are changed also and about 5 1/2 gallons
of new oil is added. This is about equal to a full oil change every
40,000 miles. The oil is analyzed every 10,000 miles. For the system to
work you can't have any leaky head gaskets or internal fuel leaks. You
have to add enough new oil to keep the additives up. Oil analysis
checks for these things.
I've never known of paper getting into the oil. The way the testing
people check for that is they install a fuel filter in the return line
to the sump. They cut this filter open and check for paper fibers. As
you know on a diesel engine clean fuel is sometimes even more important
than clean oil. We use the more efficient paper towel F-1 as a primary
filter to keep the fuel clean and dry. We leave the stock filters in
place as a back up. The stock filters last indefinately because they
are getting precleaned fuel. If I had any concern about paper getting
into the oil system I would install a secondary filter down line from
the 0-2 or 0-1 Gulf Coast bypass filter. A spin on fuel filter and
holder would work fine. I would cut it open in 50,000 miles and check
for paper fibers. Paper fibers cannot go through a fuel filter. Almost
none of the users of these filters use a secondary filter. They
consider paper getting into the oil stream a non issue. They have been
used on light aircraft for 30 years that I know of. If you use Bounty
big roll paper towels the embossing will still be there in 10,000 miles
and you can tear the paper at each sheet. Oil makes paper very strong.
Fleet Guard and Luberfiner uses shredded newspapers in their bypass
filter elements. Cellulose and cotton are the best material for use in
oil and fuel filers. What is toilet paper and paper towels? economical
and high quality cellulose. A trucker can pull into a Wal-Mart and
stock up on oil and fuel filters and oil and keep on trucking. The only
filters that are as good as paper towels are too expensive to be
practical. The only way synthetic oil is economical is if you have
economical submicronic bypass oil filters that are effective at
eliminating routine oil drains. About the only advantage to synthetic
lubricants is better fuel economy and better cold weather service.
Ralph
In article <8agl9p$9hs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
one...@my-deja.com wrote:
> So Ralph.
>
> What were the results of the tests that you mention? What is
> the possibility of the paper towel roll disentigrating and
> clogging oil journals? Has this ever happened to your knowlege?
>
> onezman
>
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