synthetic oil
ralph...@my-dejanews.com
expensive bypass filter elements. It hasn't had an oil change in over 400,000
(630,000 total.) It is clained that the engine is in as good a shape as if it
had had 20 oil changes with regular oil and oil filters. This is no doubt
true. There is a Peterbilt truck on the road with a Series 60 Detroit that
has over 700,000 since the last oil change about 950,000 total. It had no
measurable wear when it was torn down and inspected at 761,000. It uses Shell
Rotella T 15- 40, the standard full flow filters and a bypass double roll
paper towel filter containing Bounty big roll paper towels. The reason the
Shell Rotella is protecting the engine better than the expensive synthetic is
it is cleaner. The reason the Shell Rotella is cleaner is because the paper
towels are being changed more often with more new oil added than the
expensive elements are being changed and more expensive synthetic oil added.
After more than 35 years of experience I have come to the conclusion that is
not so much what type of oil you use or what type of the best bypass filters
you use but how often you change the bypass elements that give you the
maximum engine life. Personally I would rather buy two rolls of Bounty big
roll paper towels every 10,000 than buy a special $50.00 element every
10,000. Going too long between filter changes only means more engine wear. I
don't like so called normal engine wear. Synthetic oil will give you better
fuel mileage and has some other advantages but it gets dirty just like any
other oil. Will synthetic oil save enough fuel to pay for itself? I don't
know. It gets complicated by too many variables. A lot of people are going to
paper towel filters including large trucking companies, Shell oil on their
drilling rigs, North Carolina D.O.T. on their ferry boats, motor graders and
tandem axle dump trucks, the US Department of Defense, US Coast Guard and
others. There are several reasons but economy is the biggest reason. Some
large military systems use 24 rolls of Bounty big roll paper towels. See the
Trawler World list archives at: http://www.samurai.com/lists/trawler-
world-list for marine engine info on several subjects including bypass
filters.
Ralph
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Bill Bershinger
thru both filters in parallel, or serial arrangement?
ralph...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<71ftim$17o$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
ralph...@my-dejanews.com
The core stays. The rolls of Bounty big roll paper towels are mounted end
to end on a holder. The holder is slid down into the housing. The oil is fed
through a small orifice and soaks down through 11 inches of tissue paper or
22" of paper in the double roll filter at about 1.5 quarts per minute. The
double roll filters are rated at 500 HP diesel, the single roll filters are
rated at 250 HP diesel. These filters work as a completely different system
as the stock full flow filter. The full flow filter is designed to remove all
large engine damaging abrasives from the "full flow" of oil to the bearings.
The paper towel filters are designed to remove all of the much smaller
abrasives known as engine wear abrasives. After the oil is cleaned it goes
directly to the oil pan bypassing the engine parts. The full flow and bypass
filters have been used together with great success for many years. The best
bypass filters use either cotton or some type of paper fibers. Cummins
fleetguard and Luberfiner for example use shredded newspaper in their best
elements to fit the Luberfiner housing. Some filter companies have copied the
paper towel and toilet paper rolls but they call the elements rolled
cellulose and charge a bunch of money for them. Many old truckers never
abandoned proper filtration even though proper filtration was pretty much
abandoned in the 1950s. There are about 40 bypass filters now available. At
least a dpzen really good ones. The military, Shell Oil and others are
bringing back the idea of keeping the oil clean rahter than sllowing it to
get dirty and then draining it. Big roll paper towels are also very good at
extending the life of the pump and injectors and the standard fuel filters
when used as a primary fuel filter.
Ralph
In article <71g2cl$13lq$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
ma...@door.net
If you have used paper towels you have experienced them falling apart
into little pieces. Now think about the heat, oil, and the pressure and
use a little common sense and you'll figure out that way before 10,000
miles the paper towels will fall apart and you'll have little tiny bits
of paper and wood in the engine and in the tiny bits of paper and wood
would be even littler tinyer bits of metal.
I hope I am wrong because this would be great technology to have, but
it sound like hog wash to me.
Bill Bershinger
Now is this a tap from the oil pump, before or after primary filtering?
I'm just wondering how much the pressure to the bearings etc, is reduced by
having some of the oil sidetracked?
Also what prevents the paper media from degrading and adding foreign matter
back into the very oil it is supposed to be cleaning?
And I sure wouldn't want old newpapers falling apart and gumming up the
arteries of my truck.
But it does sound interesting.
Bill Bershinger
air is run thru a toilet paper roll to remove impurities and moisture and
works for a long time.
If the oil were flowing slowly end to end, with a screen at the exit, I
think it might work a while. But it sure wouldn't hold up for too long.
ma...@door.net wrote in message <363E5E...@door.net>...
Pat Durkin
> I drove trucks equipped with Cummins Diesel that had a sock filter.
> (No, it didn't filter the toe jam out of your argyles.)
Geez, that goes back a ways but I know it's true because I was around then too.
During the same era the engine's water filter was also a small cotton-wrapped
cartridge that was inserted into a cannister along with a soft aluminum
"sacrificial" plate designed to attract static electricity to prevent
electrolysis damage on the cylinder liners.
Most of these guys today wouldn't recognize what we used back then John.
Pat
John Schmidt
and I used them for many years. (Not the same filter, of course.) I
never did see any wood in the oil. The technology has been around,
and used, for a jillion years or pretty close to a jillion. I'm half
a jillion years old, and Luberfiner was here before me.
John Schmidt
change, the sock, actually a cotton bag, was turned inside out to see
if any metal particles had been snagged. The bag was wrapped around a
frame before being inserted into it's housing. Those bag filters
caught a lot of junk. The company I was with started using a
commercial oil anylizer company, so the bag filters were done away
with. We used the Luberfiner bypass fillters and never had any
disintegration of the filter medium, which was wood chips and shredded
newspapers. I don't know what the oil flow rate through the
Luberfiner was. There was no problem of oil starvation to the
bearings.
Axel Grease
<71la89$sb6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> The core stays. The rolls of Bounty big roll paper towels are mounted
end
> to end on a holder. The holder is slid down into the housing. The oil is
fed
> through a small orifice and soaks down through 11 inches of tissue paper
or
> 22" of paper in the double roll filter at about 1.5 quarts per minute.
<363e6fef...@news.inu.net>...
> Luberfiner has made the woodchip and funnypaper filters for many years
> and I used them for many years. (Not the same filter, of course.) I
> never did see any wood in the oil. The technology has been around,
> and used, for a jillion years or pretty close to a jillion. I'm half
> a jillion years old, and Luberfiner was here before me.
>
> On Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:36:19 -0800, ma...@door.net wrote:
>
> >This sounds interesting but I think you are pulling our legs.
Wasn't toilet paper filtering used in light WWII military vehicles or
during the Depression? But then a few years ago (probably 15 or more
years... ho-hum... age happens), some major auto oil filter companies got
into a bind when the "60 minutes" TV show cut their auto filters open to
show toilet paper rolls inside.
Another factor on paper towels is that they are NOT all created equal.
I've normally let the mechanics deal with filters but I'm interested now.
Years ago, I found Bounty towels to be lousy if I used them to clean
windsheild glass with water-amonia solvents (like Windex type window
cleaners). Cheap-O towels absorb and hold water better, but fell apart.
Bounty doesn't disintegrate so easy, but it left a hazy streaky residue on
my windshield glass and it would not hold the thin liquids well enough. I
didn't know what that crud was, but I didn't like it... had to re-clean
with the cheap-O towels so I just quit using Bounty. For oil, the
situation may be different. Oil has FAR longer molecules, different
surface tension, stickier adhesion properties, and it's thicker than water.
The Bounty towel method makes sense to me over the wood chips and
newspaper system... so long as whatever residue causing that hazy film with
window cleaners is gone or if it's not a problem for engine wear. Newprint
paper seems like it could filter well, but isn't it slower than paper
towels? Newprint fiber is compressed.
Axel
Bill Bershinger
ralph...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<71r4mq$pai$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Bill,
This is not something that was just recently dreamed up. All of the old
trucks and all others used the bypass filter system long before the less
effective full flow filters were invented. Oil pumps put out a lot more oil
than the engine can use. A pressure relief valve sends the excess oil not
needed by the engine back to the oil pan. The bypass filter just takes some
of this excess oil and cleans a steady stream and dumps the clean oil into
the oil pan. At 1.5 quarts per minute it doesn't take long for the whole oil
system to be cleaned. My Sears lawn tractor with a 20 HP Kohler engine has
an
oil pump that can supply the engine with oil and has enough extra to send
1.5
quarts of oil through a bypass filter and then to the oil sump. 1.5 quarts
per minute would be nothing for a car or big truck. Bypass filters do not
supply engine parts with clean oil directly. They supply the oil pan with
clean oil. My 1982 Mazda diesel pickup came from the factory with both a
full
flow and a bypass filter. They called it a primary and secondary filter. It
doesn't matter if its toilet paper, paper towels, shredded newspaper, or the
pleated cardboard in the full flow filter. Paper doesn't break down in oil
unless it is neglected for a very long time. The full flow filter will be
the
first to break down because of neglect because it is the one with all the
oil
pressure and flow through it. It here was any danger of shredded newspapers
falling apart Cummins and Luberfiner wouldn't use them. We all know some
people take care of their filters and some don't. I am a mechanic and I have
seen equipment that hadn't had an oil or filter change in years. I have cut
open the stock full flow filters and found part of the pleated paper
missing.
All filter companies have product liability insurance. They are only
responsible for the filter not neglect by the equipment owner.
Ralph
In article <71locs$8402$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
"Bill Bershinger" <bersh...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> 1.5 quarts per minute would obviously be too slow for the main engine.
>
> Now is this a tap from the oil pump, before or after primary filtering?
>
> I'm just wondering how much the pressure to the bearings etc, is reduced
by
> having some of the oil sidetracked?
>
> Also what prevents the paper media from degrading and adding foreign
matter
> back into the very oil it is supposed to be cleaning?
>
> And I sure wouldn't want old newpapers falling apart and gumming up the
> arteries of my truck.
>
> But it does sound interesting.
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ralph...@my-dejanews.com
Bypass filters are making a comeback: I use toilet paper to filter the
coolant and add an additive to keep the PH level OK. The antifreeze protects
the paper the same way oil protects it.
You might find the following of interest.
Title: Don't Bypass Bypass Filters
Author: Gelinas, Tom
Journal: Fleet Equipment Vol: 14 Iss: 7
Date: Jul 1988 pp. 39-41
Abstract:
According to some estimates, 60% of the
potential causes of engine wear and failure
can be eliminated by a well-designed and
properly applied filtration system. Cummins
Engine Co. recommends that both a bypass
filter and a full-flow filter be used. A
bypass filter shunts 10% of the total oil
pump output through a filter and then back to
the sump, bypassing the engine. Because this
filter has high-pressure differential and low
flow rate, it can filter out fine particles
in the 5-micron range. In contrast, a full-
flow filter has a low-pressure differential
and filters out only large particles in the
40 micron to 60 micron range. However, the
full-flow filter is located so that all of
the oil must flow through it before reaching
the bearings. The combination of these 2
filter types gives double protection against
wear. Studies at the Cummins Technical
Center indicate that wear can be reduced up
to 91% by using a bypass filter in
combination with a full-flow filter.
Ralph
In article <363E1916...@pacbell.net>,
Pat Durkin <clo...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> John Schmidt wrote:
>
> > I drove trucks equipped with Cummins Diesel that had a sock filter.
> > (No, it didn't filter the toe jam out of your argyles.)
>
> Geez, that goes back a ways but I know it's true because I was around then
too.
> During the same era the engine's water filter was also a small cotton-wrapped
> cartridge that was inserted into a cannister along with a soft aluminum
> "sacrificial" plate designed to attract static electricity to prevent
> electrolysis damage on the cylinder liners.
>
> Most of these guys today wouldn't recognize what we used back then John.
>
> Pat
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ralph...@my-dejanews.com
Ralph
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ralph...@my-dejanews.com
were factory installed on some farm tractors during the depression. They were
used on some military equipment in North Africa during WWII. They have been
factory installed on fire engines. They were FAA and PMA approved for light
aircraft in 1971. I have used them since 1963. Paper towel filters were
invented in the 1960's somewhere in California. I never heard about the 60
Minute show but the filters were on the Discovery Channel. There are filters
that use toilet paper as an element but they don't call them toilet paper
filters. They call them cellulose filters or rolled cellulose filters.
Cellulose filters sell for 20 bucks or more and toilet paper sells for about
50 cents. Most of the modern toilet paper and paper towel filters are being
bought by the US Air Force and Us Army National Guard. All branches of the
service are now using some of them. Several companies use paper towel and
toilet paper filters including Shell Oil on their offshore drilling rigs.
Scott Paper Company on their logging equipment including tug boats. Carrolls
Foods Inc of Warsaw NC on their over 100 over the road trucks. John E Graham
and Sons of Morgan City LA has over 1000 paper towel filters on their fleet
of oil field support vessels. Each boat has up to 8 12 V 71 Detroits and a
Detroit generator set. North Carolina uses paper towel filters on their big
Cat engines on their ferry boat system. The reason paper towel filters are so
effective is the oil is allowed to soak through a large amount of paper such
as 22 inches in the double roll 500 HP model. The full flow filter must
filter a hugh volume of oil and is only about 1/32nd of an inch thick. The
paper towel filters do not replace the high volume full flow filter but are
used with the full flow filter. Most engine wear is caused by abrasives
larger than about 5 microns. Most heavy duty truck bypass filters can filter
down to about 5 microns. The double roll paper towels can filter down to
under one micron and have more holding capacity than the average truck bypass
filters. Most truckers use Bounty big roll paper towels. I just bought a
couple of rolls of Sparkle paper towels at Albertsons for a yard tractor with
an 8.2 liter GM engine. I've been busy installing filters on Ford Power
strokes - oil and fuel. Modern oils will last as long as you can keep them
clean. The big fleets use an oil analysis program to check for problems such
as extreme fuel or coolant contamination. To make a good oil filter
newspaper must be shredded. Otherwise it would be like forcing oil through a
wooden plank. The advantage of toilet paper and paper towels is they are
ready to go, are more absorbant and are cheap. Petroleum products make tissue
paper very tough. Paper filters must be changed regularly and new make up oil
added to keep the additives up. The additives are what keeps the acid from
destroying your engine and oil filters. The paper towels should be changed
every 10,000 and the full flow filters every 50,000 on an over the road truck
unless your oil analysis shows that you can go longer.
Ralph
In article <01be0795$1edeec00$e6775acf@da>,
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