OHIO TURNPIKE: Shutting State Rt. 49 interchange is studied
Sean Lyons
It may be the end of the road for truckers and others who use the State Rt.
49 interchange in Williams County and its connection with U.S. 20 to avoid
miles of tolls on the Ohio Turnpike.
Closing the Route 49 interchange is one of two proposals aimed at truckers
that the Ohio Turnpike Commission is considering. Besides the Route 49
interchange, Gary Suhadolnik, the turnpike's executive director, said
yesterday that turnpike staff is studying the possibility of finding private
truck-stop operators to redevelop two pairs of service plazas into
full-service truck stops.
The Route 49 interchange opened in 1993 as the turnpike's only access
without toll gates, allowing traffic going to or from Indiana to use the
Ohio Turnpike's western-most two miles without paying an Ohio toll.
In particular, Mr. Suhadolnik said, it allows truckers intent on avoiding
Ohio tolls to make a quick connection with U.S. 20, which intersects Route
49 just north of the turnpike and runs roughly parallel between there and an
I-475/U.S. 23 connection in Lucas County's Sylvania Township.
"We've made it easy for trucks to go right onto the Indiana Toll Road"
without paying Ohio Turnpike tolls, Mr. Suhadolnik said.
The study will start with traffic counts on the Route 49 ramps, the turnpike
chief said. With traffic data in hand, he said, the turnpike will hold
hearings somewhere near the interchange, probably in June or July.
When it opened, the Route 49 interchange was hailed for its potential
economic development benefits in western Williams County, but so far
development in the immediate surrounding area has been minimal. Previously,
the Ohio Turnpike's westernmost interchange was at State Rt. 15 near
Montpelier - 13 miles east of the Indiana line.
Thomas Strup, president of the Williams County commissioners, blasted the
closing idea, arguing that there ought to be a less radical solution to the
problem of toll-dodging trucks.
"I can't speak for my whole board, but I would be adamantly opposed to
closing that interchange," Mr. Strup said yesterday. "That is an economic
tool for western Williams County. Losing it could be extremely detrimental
to businesses here."
The proposed truck-stop facilities would be open to all motorists, but would
have repair bays and stores offering travel supplies and groceries catering
to truckers. Right now, Mr. Suhadolnik said, truckers desiring those
services while traveling across Ohio must exit the turnpike to find them.
Mr. Suhadolnik said he favors the service plazas closest to the Pennsylvania
and Indiana borders for the truck-stop concept, though the pair near Swanton
also could be considered depending on what the private sector thinks. Those
three pairs are the only original service plazas remaining; the four busiest
plaza pairs have been rebuilt, and reconstruction of a fifth pair is under
way, all using turnpike funds.
Not only would developing on-turnpike truck stops make the road more
convenient for truckers, he said, but private development would allow the
turnpike to concentrate its capital resources on roadway improvements, like
completing the third-lane widening project.
"We only have so much [money] to build these, so why not see if we can get
the private sector to pay for them?" he said.
Toll road officials have gotten favorable responses from several major
truck-stop operators they have contacted, Mr. Suhadolnik said.
"It's a very creative approach that the Ohio Turnpike is taking," said Peter
Greene, the senior vice president for development and franchising at
TravelCenters of America, based in Westlake, Ohio. While private firms long
have operated as service vendors on turnpikes, he said, having a private
company build and operate such facilities would be a first.
Long-term leases likely would be required so a private firm would have time
to recoup its construction investment, Mr. Greene said. Ownership terms are
among the "100 questions" that remain to be answered before the idea could
go forward, Mr. Suhadolnik said, but "we've pretty much agreed we're going
to go with the concept."
--
Sean Lyons
http://www.great-lakes-hwys.org/michigan/Countysigns
http://www.great-lakes-hwys.org/ohio/Countysigns
http://www.great-lakes-hwys.org/ohio/NWOHwys
Charles W. Finley
but rather as a straight shot to/From I-69 and avoid that 5-6 mile jog
Between OH-49 and I-69. so for WB traffic just put on a $0.25 toll for cars
going on or exiting the Turnpike.
"Sean Lyons" <maheri...@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
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>49 interchange in Williams County and its connection with U.S. 20 to avoid
>miles of tolls on the Ohio Turnpike.
>Closing the Route 49 interchange is one of two proposals aimed at truckers
>that the Ohio Turnpike Commission is considering. Besides the Route 49
>interchange, Gary Suhadolnik, the turnpike's executive director, said
>yesterday that turnpike staff is studying the possibility of finding private
>truck-stop operators to redevelop two pairs of service plazas into
>full-service truck stops.
>
>The Route 49 interchange opened in 1993 as the turnpike's only access
>without toll gates, allowing traffic going to or from Indiana to use the
>Ohio Turnpike's western-most two miles without paying an Ohio toll.
>
I'm not familiar with the area, but that seems like throwing out the baby with
the bath water.
What a huge waste of money... build a brand-new interchange, then shut it down
11 years later. Not to mention screwing Williams County in the process.
Someone clearly didn't think things through when the interchange was proposed.
Michael G. Koerner
>
> i am one of those who used that exit (OH-49), but not to avoid Ohio Tolls,
> but rather as a straight shot to/From I-69 and avoid that 5-6 mile jog
> Between OH-49 and I-69. so for WB traffic just put on a $0.25 toll for cars
> going on or exiting the Turnpike.
Don't the two authorities regularly reconcile traffic count differences
between their two tollgates on either side of OH 49 to see how much
Indiana's authority would pay Ohio's authority to maintain that short
section of Ohio Turnpike between the state line and OH 49, assuming that
the traffic count at the Indiana tollgate was higher? Also, if that is
how it is done and if the traffic count at the Ohio tollgate was higher
than at Indiana counterpart, would the cost of maintanence of that
section in Ohio come entirely from Ohio toll collections?
Or does the cost of maintaining the part of the Ohio Turnpike between OH
49 and the state line come entirely out of Indiana toll collections,
seeing as that every vehicle that gets on and off there going to and
from the west must pass through tollgates in Indiana?
(I hope that this isn't too confusing. Hehehehe)
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Chris Lawrence
> Don't the two authorities regularly reconcile traffic count differences
> between their two tollgates on either side of OH 49 to see how much
> Indiana's authority would pay Ohio's authority to maintain that short
> section of Ohio Turnpike between the state line and OH 49, assuming that
> the traffic count at the Indiana tollgate was higher? Also, if that is
> how it is done and if the traffic count at the Ohio tollgate was higher
> than at Indiana counterpart, would the cost of maintanence of that
> section in Ohio come entirely from Ohio toll collections?
Clearly the issue isn't that the road doesn't make the money needed to
maintain it; it's that the Turnpike wants to keep trucks ON THE TURNPIKE.
Having said that though, given the arguments that a single truck has the
effect of several hundred cars on pavement, you'd think the Turnpike would
actually be happy that trucks are avoiding the road and saving them oodles
of maintenance money.
Chris
--
Chris Lawrence <ch...@lordsutch.com> - http://blog.lordsutch.com/
Larry Harvilla
news:CKSdnWtwl47...@buckeye-express.com...
Another wonderful idea to come out of the damn preschoolers at OSU,
obviously ...
If they had the first inkling of a clue, they would realize that in many
cases, truckers are not choosing of their own volition to avoid the
Turnpike, they are TOLD to do so. Company policies that explicitly state
"DO NOT RUN THE OHIO TURNPIKE" or "No reimbursement given for Ohio tolls"
abound.
Obviously, the brainless twits don't realize that you're not going to
increase truck traffic on the Turnpike by shutting down the SR 49
interchange. All that's going to happen is that trucks already using US 20
and SR 49 will simply stay on US 20 to I-69, or jump off the Indiana Toll
Road at SB I-69 and follow that down to US 20, depending on direction of
travel.
--
Larry Harvilla
E-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/
Highways section to be added soon.
Stéphane Dumas
with
> the bath water.
>
> What a huge waste of money... build a brand-new interchange, then shut it
down
> 11 years later. Not to mention screwing Williams County in the process.
>
> Someone clearly didn't think things through when the interchange was
proposed.
>
ALT US 20) about truck traffic on their roads? An other solution to study
is to put weight restrictions on US20 with more presence of the Ohio state
police along US20.
Stéphane Dumas
Chris Bessert
>
> I wondered if there some complains of people who resides along US 20 (and
> ALT US 20) about truck traffic on their roads? An other solution to study
> is to put weight restrictions on US20 with more presence of the Ohio state
> police along US20.
Problem is, US-20 is an all-weather, primary trunkline highway and it
is perfectly legal and legitimate to expect (and allow) trucks to use
this road. They've been using it for nearly a century now and placing
an artifical weight limit -- one not borne out by the physical con-
dition of the road or any bridges thereon -- would simply be a ploy by
the Turnpike Commission to steer a certain segment of users to their
route instead.
A greater police presence on US-20 can only enforce current speed and
current weight limits, and I haven't heard anyone complaining about
trucks going too fast on US-20 or overweight trucks beating the high-
way to shreds prematurely. It's simply the Turnpike Commission seeing
this exit siphon off what they believe to be lost revenue. But, as
Larry H stated elsewhere, many trucking companies don't even ALLOW
their drivers to use the Turnpike or would make the driver cover any
tolls if he chooses to use the Turnpike.
Anyway, if people don't want trucks passing by their front door day
and night, they shouldn't live on a major transcontinental highway
like US-20, is my take.
Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com
http://www.michiganhighways.org
http://www.wisconsinhighways.org
http://www.ontariohighways.org
magyar
news:0e1d190a108b2998...@news.teranews.com...
>
> Another wonderful idea to come out of the damn preschoolers at OSU,
> obviously ...
Being an Ohio State graduate has nothing to do with this proposal.
Whoever came up with the proposal could just as likely be from any other
school in Ohio or elsewhere.
Sandor G (graduate of Ohio State University, not some damn preschool)
--
"I'ma low pay daddy singin' th' high price blues."
--Corey Harris singing Woody Guthrie
Joe Galea
Dave Sturm
> obviously ...
>
> If they had the first inkling of a clue, they would realize that in many
> cases, truckers are not choosing of their own volition to avoid the
> Turnpike, they are TOLD to do so. Company policies that explicitly state
> "DO NOT RUN THE OHIO TURNPIKE" or "No reimbursement given for Ohio tolls"
> abound.
>
> Obviously, the brainless twits don't realize that you're not going to
> increase truck traffic on the Turnpike by shutting down the SR 49
> interchange. All that's going to happen is that trucks already using US 20
> and SR 49 will simply stay on US 20 to I-69, or jump off the Indiana Toll
> Road at SB I-69 and follow that down to US 20, depending on direction of
> travel.
Your middle paragraph hits the crux of the problem. It's a very real
phenomenon that cross-country truck traffic coming in from
Pennsylvania on I-80 is given the same instruction. This is the
primary factor sending all sorts of truck traffic on I-76 to I-71 and
then cross Ohio and Indiana on US 30 avoiding not just the Ohio
Turnpike, but also the Indiana Toll Road.
I cross Ohio on US 30 from Akron to I-75 regularly when I travel to my
grandparents, and can vouch that trucks I see on US 30 at Mansfield
are still there on the other side of Upper Sandusky. (That is, I'll
stop in US or in Bucyrus for a quick service stop or fast food and
re-encounter the same trucks again.)
There's really no way to solve this problem. Some foolish companies
think that saving the combined toll is worth *longer* and *slower*
travel (and at per-mile rates longer by 15 miles).
***The simplest solution it seems is an exit toll of $1 for cars, and
$5+ for trucks REFUNDED at another plaza if you RE-ENTER the turnpike
there at SR 49 within a two hour period.***
Barry L. Camp
I absolutely hate the idea of closing the Turnpike/SR-49
interchange. I've used it quite a few times for tri-state roadgeeking,
as well as visits to the IN/MI/OH tri-point. There's also this most
incredible Amish bakery along Territorial Road, between the Indiana
line and M-49. They make round loaves of bread so good that you can
just break off pieces and eat - no need for butter or anything; plus a
strawberry rhubarb pie that is to die for.
It would really suck to close that exit, as it is slow going on either
Indiana SR-120 from Fremont, or US-20 from Angola (I usually appoach
via I-69
out of Michigan).
Barry
Adrian Leskiw
Turnpike and not the IN Toll Road as well?
Adrian
"Larry Harvilla" <IGNOR...@ADDRESS-IN-SIGNATURE.com> wrote in message
news:0e1d190a108b2998...@news.teranews.com...
Rothman
"Adrian Leskiw" <ale...@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:GzUhc.4395$Nz2....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> So why do trucking companies have provisions forbidding the use of the
Ohio
> Turnpike and not the IN Toll Road as well?
>
> Adrian
Ohio Turnpike's a ton more expensive. Isn't the IN Toll Road still under
$5 for the entire trip?
Rothman
"Rothman" <dnr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4088...@news-1.oit.umass.edu...
magyar
news:69762484.04042...@posting.google.com...
But that's also why the damn preschoolers at OSU are directing ODOT to make
US 30 four a freeway/expressway from the Indiana border to the Ohio River
(and have been trying to do so for 40+ years).
Sandor G
Larry Harvilla
You missed my reference to a couple-months-old Chris Bessert post on Great
Lakes Roads. He talked about six-year-olds at MSU screwing up the MDOT map.
Since this shut-the-SR 49-exit idea is even more hare-brained, it must be
from preschoolers at OSU. :)
--
Larry Harvilla
E-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/
Larry Harvilla
The Indiana Toll Road is $12.80 for the entire Eastport Toll Plaza (MM 153)
to Portage Toll Plaza (MM 24) trip, for a five-axle tractor-trailer. Take
my detour of IN SR 39 NB to US 20 WB to I-94 WB to get to Lake Station, and
you cut that to exactly $10.
magyar
> "magyar" <roa...@copper.net> wrote in message
> news:4087d...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > "Larry Harvilla" <IGNOR...@ADDRESS-IN-SIGNATURE.com> wrote in message
> > news:0e1d190a108b2998...@news.teranews.com...
> > >
> > > Another wonderful idea to come out of the damn preschoolers at OSU,
> > > obviously ...
> >
> > Being an Ohio State graduate has nothing to do with this proposal.
> > Whoever came up with the proposal could just as likely be from any other
> > school in Ohio or elsewhere.
> >
> >
> > Sandor G (graduate of Ohio State University, not some damn preschool)
> > --
> > "I'ma low pay daddy singin' th' high price blues."
> > --Corey Harris singing Woody Guthrie
>
>
> You missed my reference to a couple-months-old Chris Bessert post on Great
> Lakes Roads. He talked about six-year-olds at MSU screwing up the MDOT
map.
> Since this shut-the-SR 49-exit idea is even more hare-brained, it must be
> from preschoolers at OSU. :)
And did you see the response one of the MSU alums gave Chris after his rant
(I think it was a month later that Hatchard took Chris's rant apart)
But at the time of it's completion the exit at OH 49 seemed to be a good
idea.
But OTC raised rates so high that truckers are avoiding it, and development
must not have come as easily as others thought when the interchange was
built.
The OTC is trying to keep trucks to the turnpike, but outside of lowering
the tolls, I don't see any method working.
P.S. with your explaination, I apologize for jumping you (in this thread)
this morning.
> --
> Larry Harvilla
> E-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
Sandor G
Craig Holl
Couldn't they add toll booth to/from the west at OH 49? Exact change only (and
E-ZPass, I wish!), so it would not have to be manned.
--
Craig Holl
Mechanical Engineer; New Berlin, WI
www.midwestroads.com
*remove all numbers and caps to reply*
Keith
interchange. I personally hate all toll roads, and if truckers know
the alternate routes, then good for them. They can't prohibit trucks
from using US-20, and closing the interchange won't stop it. If they
really want to, just toll the OH-49 interchange. That's all.
Rothman
"Larry Harvilla" <IGNOR...@ADDRESS-IN-SIGNATURE.com> wrote in message
> "Rothman" <dnr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4088...@news-1.oit.umass.edu...
> >
> >
> > "Adrian Leskiw" <ale...@umich.edu> wrote in message
> > news:GzUhc.4395$Nz2....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> > > So why do trucking companies have provisions forbidding the use of the
> > Ohio
> > > Turnpike and not the IN Toll Road as well?
> > >
> > > Adrian
> >
> > Ohio Turnpike's a ton more expensive. Isn't the IN Toll Road still
> under
> > $5 for the entire trip?
>
>
> The Indiana Toll Road is $12.80 for the entire Eastport Toll Plaza (MM
153)
> to Portage Toll Plaza (MM 24) trip, for a five-axle tractor-trailer. Take
> my detour of IN SR 39 NB to US 20 WB to I-94 WB to get to Lake Station,
and
> you cut that to exactly $10.
Good detour info. I realized my car-centric thinking and posted a
retraction.
Dr. Phil Is Weird
>Only Ohio could think of something as stupid as shutting down an
>interchange.
Come to think of it, it is a mighty stupid idea.
Why did they build the interchange if they were just going to close it
down 10 years later?
Jellyfish Heaven
news:0DNhc.14373$mK3....@weber.videotron.net...
Death Ray. Disintegrate those suckers. Fast, easy and cheap, and neat at
that.
--
Comrade Mr. Yämamřto: Owner and SUPER Operator
of http://mryamamoto.50megs.com
"A stiff idiot is the worst kind"
Adrian Leskiw
"Keith" <sirke...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ca5da64.04042...@posting.google.com...
Larry Harvilla
> "Larry Harvilla" <IGNOR...@ADDRESS-IN-SIGNATURE.com> wrote in message
> news:b2f297ac4f020bef...@news.teranews.com...
> >
Great
> > Lakes Roads. He talked about six-year-olds at MSU screwing up the MDOT
> > map.
> > Since this shut-the-SR 49-exit idea is even more hare-brained, it must
be
> > from preschoolers at OSU. :)
>
> And did you see the response one of the MSU alums gave Chris after his
rant
> (I think it was a month later that Hatchard took Chris's rant apart)
> But at the time of it's completion the exit at OH 49 seemed to be a good
> idea.
> But OTC raised rates so high that truckers are avoiding it, and
development
> must not have come as easily as others thought when the interchange was
> built.
>
> The OTC is trying to keep trucks to the turnpike, but outside of lowering
> the tolls, I don't see any method working.
>
> P.S. with your explaination, I apologize for jumping you (in this thread)
> this morning.
>
> --
> "I'ma low pay daddy singin' th' high price blues."
> --Corey Harris singing Woody Guthrie
However, don't take my explanation as all of a sudden liking or respecting
OSU. I *did* after all go to Michigan, the leaders and best, and the
champions of the West ... :)
--
Larry Harvilla
E-mail: roads AT phatpage DOT org
also visit: http://www.phatpage.org/
Larry Harvilla
> retraction.
Not a problem to have been thinking car-centric. I often times go
truck-centric myself. :)
Chris Bessert
>
> However, don't take my explanation as all of a sudden liking or respecting
> OSU. I *did* after all go to Michigan, the leaders and best, and the
> champions of the West ... :)
And my response as a Michigan State fan and husband of a Michigan
State College of Human Medicine grad...
"My ass!"
Have a nice day,
Chris Bessert
> [...] I personally hate all toll roads, and if truckers know
> the alternate routes, then good for them. [...]
Hey, that's your perogative, Keith. Personally, I tend to suck it up
and pay the few bucks toll to use the toll road instead of paying
twice the amount in extra gas using the slower, windier two-lane
alternates in most cases. Plus, I also put a value on my time, so the
toll roads, in many cases, end up saving me a LOT in terms of money,
wear-and-tear on my car and wasted time. But, to each his own...
Later,
Keith
> Keith wrote:
>
> > [...] I personally hate all toll roads, and if truckers know
> > the alternate routes, then good for them. [...]
>
> Hey, that's your perogative, Keith. Personally, I tend to suck it up
> and pay the few bucks toll to use the toll road instead of paying
> twice the amount in extra gas using the slower, windier two-lane
> alternates in most cases. Plus, I also put a value on my time, so the
> toll roads, in many cases, end up saving me a LOT in terms of money,
> wear-and-tear on my car and wasted time. But, to each his own...
>
> Later,
> Chris
If you like toll roads so much move to Ohio.
Larry Harvilla
Chris,
While your point about toll roads being far superior to two-lane roads is
valid, I must say that careful consideration must be given to any toll road
vs. alternate route choice. For example, one would have to be a complete
moron to go out of one's way to avoid the West Virginia Turnpike; but in
other cases, like Ohio, the alternate routes are excellent choices.
Consideration should also be given to rates of toll; I don't mind paying a
dime per mile (five axles) in Indiana or 12 cents per mile (tractor/53'
trailer) in New York State, but 18 cents per mile (Class 8; >70,000 lbs.)
in Ohio and 22-25 cents per mile (Class 7; 62,000-80,000 lbs.) in
Pennsylvania is a bit piggish.
For your (or anybody else's) information, here is my entire Ohio Turnpike
avoidance route, from west to east:
SR 49 NB
US 20 EB
I-475 NB then EB
I-75 NB
I-280 SB
SR 51 EB
SR 579 EB
SR 2 EB
I-90 EB
I-490 EB
I-77 SB
I-480 EB, dead ends into ...
SR 14 EB
I-76 EB
I-80 EB
If I want the Pennsylvania Turnpike, I take I-80 to I-79 SB near Mercer,
and follow 79 down to the "Keystone Green Stamp." (My company also won't
reimburse the PA Tpk from Ohio to New Stanton; how the $%*%@! else are we
supposed to get through Pittsburgh, bean-counting idiots? It's especially
stupid considering they're based in PA.)
Overall, ISTR only two lights, four 35-mph or so curves, and three
small-to-tiny towns on US 20; about five lights within the mile on SR 51;
and no lights and just one 40-mph zone on SR 579. SR 14 through Streetsboro
and Ravenna is the biggest headache, but that 14-mile distance is easily
covered in 20-22 minutes even in a truck.
michael d
"Larry Harvilla" <IGNOR...@ADDRESS-IN-SIGNATURE.com> wrote in message
miles or trips per year or month on the turnpike. I would suggest
reading:
http://www.ohioturnpike.org/truckers_page.html#discounts
and
http://www.ohioturnpike.org/chrgacct.html
before deciding to avoid the turnpike. I would also point out these
programs to your employer. I used the turnpike from cleveland to
youngstown today and i saw quite a few trucks on the turnpike. Of course
from erie to cleveland on 90 i saw more traffic but 90 is generally a
more heavily travelled route than 80.
Joe Galea
> the ohio turnpike has discount programs for companies that make so many
> miles or trips per year or month on the turnpike. I would suggest
> reading:
> http://www.ohioturnpike.org/truckers_page.html#discounts
> and
> http://www.ohioturnpike.org/chrgacct.html
> before deciding to avoid the turnpike. I would also point out these
> programs to your employer. I used the turnpike from cleveland to
> youngstown today and i saw quite a few trucks on the turnpike. Of course
> from erie to cleveland on 90 i saw more traffic but 90 is generally a
> more heavily travelled route than 80.
>
>
Larry's company doesn't reimburse him for using the Ohio Turnpike.
Lepidopteran
>If you like toll roads so much move to Ohio.
Actually, a toll-road afficionado should move to New Jersey. A much
smaller state, they have THREE toll roads, not to mention several
tolled bridges and tunnels.
Ohio may have the Shocknessy Turnpike, but isn't that the only toll
road in the state? It doesn't even have any extensions or spurs; the
only proposed branch route I knew of was to be Ohio's section of I-73
between Toledo and Columbus.
Does Ohio have any toll bridges across the Ohio River?
Steve
> On 23 Apr 2004 16:30:23 -0700, sirke...@hotmail.com (Keith) wrote:
>
>
>>If you like toll roads so much move to Ohio.
>
>
> Actually, a toll-road afficionado should move to New Jersey. A much
> smaller state, they have THREE toll roads, not to mention several
> tolled bridges and tunnels.
Even better, move to southern Florida.
--
Steve
GO YANKEES! GO KNICKS!
Civil Engineering (Course 1) at MIT
Sandy Mc Tire: The Canadian Scotsman
news:408d9af9$0$556$b45e...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
Or Oklahoma, and TX is up and coming in the toll motorway biz.
Chris Bessert
>
> Chris,
>
> While your point about toll roads being far superior to two-lane roads is
> valid, I must say that careful consideration must be given to any toll road
> vs. alternate route choice. For example, one would have to be a complete
> moron to go out of one's way to avoid the West Virginia Turnpike; but in
> other cases, like Ohio, the alternate routes are excellent choices.
> Consideration should also be given to rates of toll; I don't mind paying a
> dime per mile (five axles) in Indiana or 12 cents per mile (tractor/53'
> trailer) in New York State, but 18 cents per mile (Class 8; >70,000 lbs.)
> in Ohio and 22-25 cents per mile (Class 7; 62,000-80,000 lbs.) in
Larry,
I don't fault you, any other trucker or, heck, ANY one else out there
for avoiding a toll road if they choose. Hell, on my last trip 'round
the south side of Lake Erie, I took teh SR-51 > SR-579 > SR-2 route
past Sandusky et al, but because I *wanted* to, not because I was
trying to say a few bucks or because I was thinking it was shorter/
faster than the Turnpike (which it isn't).
My whole point in the other SR-2 vs Ohio Turnpike thread, which was
based on the average motorist in an average automobile (not trucker)
looking to travel from Michigan to New York State (WNY or CNY) and
noting it's faster via Ontario and cheaper via Ontario. Our favorite
little troll tried to muddy the discussion by stating his route, via
SR-2, was faster/better/cheaper/whatever than the Ohio Turnpike, which
wasn't the topic of the conversation.
He then sticks his head into this thread with another of his smartass
comments and I simply countered his drivel with a thought-out, reasoned
statement, of course based on a motorist in an automobile, not a long-
haul trucker who is effectively forbidden to use the Turnpike. Face
it, if I were John Q. Public wanting to get from Chicago to Toledo,
was not poor and had other things to do with his time -- e.g. this was
not a vacation/pleasure trip -- I'd personally take the Indiana Toll
Road and Ohio Turnpike. Sure, you could take US-20 the whole way and
save a few bucks, but it would take you 2-3 times as long to make the
trip, and personally I value my time more than a few bucks on the toll
road. Mind you, this is coming from someone who has taken the free
I-90 loop through Albany before, partly because I was tired of the
NYS Thruway toll via the Berkshire Spur. Of course, the through-town
route at Albany really isn't any slower with the exception of the two
toll barriers, but I've been known to take the "alternate route" be-
fore, too...
Keith
When I go to Cedar Point or Cleveland, OH-2 is faster than the Toll Road.
Chris Bessert
>
> When I go to Cedar Point or Cleveland, OH-2 is faster than the Toll Road.
That's great, Keith. That has nothing to do with the potential closing
of the SR-49 interchange nor does it have anything to do with saving
time and money by cutting through Ontario between Michigan and New
York State. Try following along in the future. Thanks!
BTW, when I go to Meijer, I use US-131, if that helps.
Sandy Mc Tire: He Whupped Santa Claus!
news:c6ndll$133o$4...@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
The screen got all smudgy from his fingers. That's why he missed bits. Give
the kid a break.
--
Comrade Mr. Yämamøto: Owner and SUPER Operator
Douglas Kerr
> >
> > When I go to Cedar Point or Cleveland, OH-2 is faster than the Toll Road.
>
> That's great, Keith. That has nothing to do with the potential closing
> of the SR-49 interchange nor does it have anything to do with saving
> time and money by cutting through Ontario between Michigan and New
> York State. Try following along in the future. Thanks!
Well, that's because Keith despises toll roads and refuses to ever
take one. Don't even get me started on what Keith has told me about
Canada and Canadians, to the effect where Keith has urged me to
boycott Canada because I should fear for my personal safety there.
Why not elaborate on that?
I-540
"Sandy Mc Tire: He Whupped Santa Claus!" <mryam...@optonline.net> wrote in
message news:rcHjc.16000$Gd3.4...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> "Chris Bessert" <bess...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:c6ndll$133o$4...@msunews.cl.msu.edu...
> | Keith wrote:
> | >
> | > When I go to Cedar Point or Cleveland, OH-2 is faster than the Toll
> Road.
> |
> | That's great, Keith. That has nothing to do with the potential closing
> | of the SR-49 interchange nor does it have anything to do with saving
> | time and money by cutting through Ontario between Michigan and New
> | York State. Try following along in the future. Thanks!
> |
> | BTW, when I go to Meijer, I use US-131, if that helps.
> |
> | Later,
> | Chris
> |
> | --
> | Chris Bessert
> | Bess...@aol.com
> | http://www.michiganhighways.org
> | http://www.wisconsinhighways.org
> | http://www.ontariohighways.org
> |
>
> The screen got all smudgy from his fingers. That's why he missed bits.
Give
> the kid a break.
>
arm, leg, nose, cranium? ;)
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.668 / Virus Database: 430 - Release Date: 4/24/04
Chris Bessert
>
> Well, that's because Keith despises toll roads and refuses to ever
> take one. Don't even get me started on what Keith has told me about
> Canada and Canadians, to the effect where Keith has urged me to
> boycott Canada because I should fear for my personal safety there.
> Why not elaborate on that?
Apparently you've missed some of our other discussions here, Mr. Kerr!
Yes, most of us are painfully aware of Keith's prejudices and feelings
toward people who are not exactly like him. Funny thing is that I have
more in common with most Canadians than I do with Keith!
I can't tell you the amount of time I've spent in Canada over the past
three decades -- living in Michigan doesn't hurt, as I'm sure you're
aware, Doug, over there in New York State. The WORST thing EVER to
happen to me on Canadian soil was the time I blew out BOTH right side
tires on the wife's Olds Cutlass trying to maneuver into the Ontario
Travel Information Centre on Hwy 3/Huron Church Rd in Windsor one very
snowy winter day several years ago. The snow had obscured a very sharp
curb jutting out -- one that had clearly been hit hundreds of times
before, and I just happened to brush my tires along it and cut two
gashes right into the sides. The folks over at Canadian Tire were very
nice and helpful and, mindful of our predicament, tried to get us in
and out ASAP. That's it. I've been from Thunder Bay to Montreal, North
Bay to Windsor, St-Jean-sur-Richelieu to Gatineau, Campobello Island
in New Brunswick to Bay & Bloor in Toronto... and two blown tires is
my nastiest encounter while in Canada. Mind you, the local people we
encountered during that event truly made it bearable.
But, then again, *I* likely speak from experience. It seems Keith
has a LOT of opinions on subjects he either knows nothing about or
has heard his parents complain about over the years.
Sandy Mc Tire: He Whupped Santa Claus!
"Douglas Kerr" <dke...@oswego.edu> wrote in message
news:203a55cf.04042...@posting.google.com...
Boston Pizza. The sauce was ketchupy, too.
| >
| > BTW, when I go to Meijer, I use US-131, if that helps.
| >
| > Later,
| > Chris
--
Sandy Mc Tire: He Whupped Santa Claus!
Well, Canadian TeeVee is hilarious. If I lived up in Buffalo I'd have to run
a cable to the TeeVee card in this puter, just to get a dose of laughs. I
know for sure they got cuter Customs ppl. I was heavily scoping the gurl @
the Peace bridge. She was way spiffy. Good thing she *didn't* say "Eh" or I
may had been compelled to gnaw on her leg and cause an international
incident.
--
Comrade Mr. Yämamřto: Owner and SUPER Operator
Eric C. Near
> "Stéphane Dumas" <steph...@NOSPAMvideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:0DNhc.14373$mK3....@weber.videotron.net...
> | > I'm not familiar with the area, but that seems like throwing out the
> baby
> | with
> | > the bath water.
> | >
> | > What a huge waste of money... build a brand-new interchange, then shut
> it
> | down
> | > 11 years later. Not to mention screwing Williams County in the process.
> | >
> | > Someone clearly didn't think things through when the interchange was
> | proposed.
> | >
> | I wondered if there some complains of people who resides along US 20 (and
> | ALT US 20) about truck traffic on their roads? An other solution to study
> | is to put weight restrictions on US20 with more presence of the Ohio state
> | police along US20.
> |
> | Stéphane Dumas
> |
> |
>
> Death Ray. Disintegrate those suckers. Fast, easy and cheap, and neat at
> that.
>
I got dibs on the ones with Ontario tags.