Southern OH/ Eastern KY Roadtrip

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mrpete

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Dec 29, 2001, 9:51:16 PM12/29/01
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On Tuesday Dec 18 I took a one day roadtrip with my parents along the Ohio
River east of Cincinnati and down through eastern Kentucky. I saw the new
cable-stayed Ohio River bridge at Maysville. The basic route:

US 52 to US 23 (at Portsmouth) to KY 80 to Daniel Boone Parkway to I-75 to
I-275 to home.

The first leg of the trip was taking US 52 from metro Cincinnati to
Portsmouth. I know the Cinicinnati stretch quite well (and don't have
anything to report), but it has been a decade since I took 52 all of the way
to Portsmouth. That was one of the first Ohio roadtrips I went on after
moving to Cincinnati in 1990. But I digress.

The new cable-stayed bridge at Maysville is open!! (and has been for months,
I just hadn't been there yet). It carries US 62/68. It is only 2 lanes but
has wide shoulders. It is named the William H. Harsha Bridge (the same guy
that East Fork Lake in Clermont County, OH was renamed for).

On the Ohio side, a cloverleaf ramp carries US 62/68 traffic from US 52 up
to the bridge. On the Kentucky side, a large hill cut was made to carry US
62/68 up away from the river (this road was opened before the bridge and
temporaily numbered KY 3071; KY 3071 shields now carry a "FORMERLY" banner.

The old routing of US 62/68 now carries a "business" designation. This
includes the old Simon Kenton bridge.

Lots of abandoned buildings along US 52. Guess a lot of people have
experienced one too many floods. Many towns slowly dying as well. River
towns pass into history...

Although the flood plain in primarily on the Ohio side, it "switches" to the
Kentucky side in a few places. US 52 is well maintained throughout, and is
a good fast road.

There is an old style rest area near the Adams/Scioto County line. Pit
toilets, and a working pump for a drinking fountain. Cool old construction.
I love these places!

US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the Ohio River
on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.

I do not understand why Ohio uses SR 852 for their stretch of the bridge
instead of OH 104 or OH 73, since both of those routes end at the foot of
the bridge. Also, according to John Simpson, OH 852 is the second highest
number.

This bridge is also carrying detour US 23, since the old US 23 bridge (US
Grant Bridge?) was recently torn down. The pilings at the site of the US 23
bridge can be seen, but that's about it. Do they have name for this new
bridge yet?

The Carl Perkins Bridge is 2 lanes with wide shoulders.

The stretch of US 23 along the Ohio isn't as developed as I would have
expected. Traffic moves quite well. There was a fair amount of traffic,
but (if memory serves me right) not as much as the 4-lane US 52 on the Ohio
side of the river.

US 23 is a 4 lane divided highway, but sometimes the median is paved and
about the width of a lane. A busy railroad is near US 23

There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam. This
bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA Highway. The
bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing things
off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where the
lock workers were???)

**Why don't all lock and dams have bridges across the top of them? It has
to be *much* cheaper than a free-standing bridge.

Just downstream from Greenup L & D, there is a "pipe bridge" that carries
several pipes across the river.

Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH as
well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets lead to
the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue. It is a
narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.

Back in Kentucky, US 23 is slower (but not unreasonably so) from Russell,
though Ashland and down to I-64. There are many homes and businesses along
this stretch.

This is the area of the origin of the Kentucky state route system. There is
SR 8 along the Ohio River (until 23 arrives from Ohio). SR 1, SR 2, SR 3,
SR 5 very
short), SR 7, and SR 10 are near by. SR 9 is relatively close, but it kind
of "doesn't count" since it was reassigned to the area about 5 years ago.

[For those following along and wondering where KY 4 is, it is a loop around
Lexington and nowhere nearby]

US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it still
needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the traffic
that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
accomodate these beasts.

US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between Kentucky
and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts can be
seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...

I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes. Why couldn't long-distance
traffic simply use US 23 down to Louisa and cross to West Virginia/US 52
there?

Took a short sidetrip to Yatesville Lake on KY 3395 and KY 32. KY 3395 is
unlined and quite primitive.

Took another sidetrip to Paintsville Lake. There are interchanges on US 23
in the KY 40/ US 460 area.

It would make sense to switch US 460 and SR 114 between the Mountain Parkway
and US 23 (look at the route of 460)

Lots of traffic comes onto US 23 at KY 114.

Light traffic on KY 80 and almost no coal trucks. I'm kind of surprised
that it is 4 lanes - seems like an improved 2 lane road would be fine here.

KY 80 is almost as impressive as US 23 in terms of the hill cuts and
fill-ins that were required.

Took a side trip down the surprisingly busy KY 15 to see the "famous" town
of Hazzard.

The KY 15 interchange is the beginning of the Daniel Boone Parkway (DBP in
future references). Beyond the interchange, though, there are some
at-grades for businesses and roads.

Before the next exit (KY 451) there are "last exit before toll" signs (not
the exact wording).

After the KY 451 exit there are no more at-grades.

There is a rumble strip down the middle (yellow line) of the DBP. It work
very well.

The DBP is in better shape and it better built than the two lane portion of
the Mountian Parkway (KY's other Super 2).

The tollbooths on the DBP are built into the "exits" (which are really
at-grades). I cannot draw a specific interchange (and my photos aren't
complete enough to help), but here is a sample.
E= DBP eastbound
W= DBP westbound
(note: parkway has a curb median at the tollbooths)
T= Tollbooth
C= Crossroad
C
T
C
WWWWWWWWWWW T WWWWWWWWW
C
EEEEEEEEEEEE T EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sometimes they are more complex than this...

The DBP is the only toll road I've been on in KY. Are the other toll
parkways like this? Were some/all of the former toll parkways like this?

At London, the road that goes to the north of town (sometimes called DBP/KY
80, other times called only KY 80) was closed. Traffic was detoured to the
south of town on KY 192.

Judging by the exit ramps at I-75 and KY 192, the DBP is a busy road (but it
is not).

At this point it was dark, so we hopped on I-75 and headed home.

Were the old weigh stations on I-75 at MM 43? It sure looks like they were.
(I keep forgetting to ask this).

Based on replies to a previous post, my pictures from this trip are promised
to Adam Prince and Sherman Cahal.
---
-Pete Jenior - Cincinnati, Ohio
-Freshman Civil Engineering Major
Georgia Tech (downtown Atlanta)
~~~~
"You're on the road
But you've got no destination"
-U2, "Beautiful Day"


Sherman Cahal

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 11:22:15 PM12/29/01
to
> On the Ohio side, a cloverleaf ramp carries US 62/68 traffic from US 52 up
> to the bridge. On the Kentucky side, a large hill cut was made to carry
US
> 62/68 up away from the river (this road was opened before the bridge and
> temporaily numbered KY 3071; KY 3071 shields now carry a "FORMERLY"
banner.

Any interchanges on the KY side? I recall seeing a BGS for one?

> Lots of abandoned buildings along US 52. Guess a lot of people have
> experienced one too many floods. Many towns slowly dying as well. River
> towns pass into history...

This is the route in which we ran over a skunk and had to stop and wash it
off...

> There is an old style rest area near the Adams/Scioto County line. Pit
> toilets, and a working pump for a drinking fountain. Cool old
construction.
> I love these places!

I need to drive down and get a pic. How far west is it from Portsmouth?
(time or mileage)

> US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the Ohio
River
> on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
> pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.

It was built in 1985.

> The Carl Perkins Bridge is 2 lanes with wide shoulders.

And needs to be 4 lanes.

> The stretch of US 23 along the Ohio isn't as developed as I would have
> expected. Traffic moves quite well. There was a fair amount of traffic,
> but (if memory serves me right) not as much as the 4-lane US 52 on the
Ohio
> side of the river.

Nothing is on the KY side. All the businesses (and New Boston) is on the
Ohio.

> US 23 is a 4 lane divided highway, but sometimes the median is paved and
> about the width of a lane. A busy railroad is near US 23

Which I proposed should be a concrete jersey barrier.

> There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam.
This
> bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA Highway. The
> bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing
things
> off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where the
> lock workers were???)

Maybe to keep people from seeing the covert operations down there...

> *Why don't all lock and dams have bridges across the top of them? It has
> to be *much* cheaper than a free-standing bridge.

The bridge was built in the mid 80's I believe.

Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH as
> well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets lead to
> the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue. It is
a
> narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.

That would be the Russel-Ironton bridge. It is slated to be replaced 2003
with a bridge at the top of the hill (where KY 244 (viaduct) and US 23 join
at).

> Back in Kentucky, US 23 is slower (but not unreasonably so) from Russell,
> though Ashland and down to I-64. There are many homes and businesses
along
> this stretch.

Did you see AK Steel? It's shit now. I am waiting for the Blast Furnace to
blow up since they haven't relined it in about 10 years (max should be about
6 years). The reling keeps the heat from exploding the steel.

> US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it still
> needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the traffic
> that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> accomodate these beasts.

The new pavement on US 23 south of I-64 uses: some sort of new technological
pavement, supposed to prevent the rutting the trucks did beforehand. Why
KYDOH didn't use concrete in the mid-80's still amazes me.

> US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
Kentucky
> and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts can be
> seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...

US 52 alredy exists in WVA. The new road is I-73/74. The one you most likely
saw is the Prichard bypass with a northern extension. Near I-64, you might
have noticed some massive fills near Huntington for the new interchange at
WV 75/US 52.

> I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes. Why couldn't long-distance
> traffic simply use US 23 down to Louisa and cross to West Virginia/US 52
> there?

US 23 is already clogged with coal trucks. If you have ever been on US 52,
it is also clogged with coal trucks.


> The tollbooths on the DBP are built into the "exits" (which are really
> at-grades). I cannot draw a specific interchange (and my photos aren't
> complete enough to help), but here is a sample.
> E= DBP eastbound
> W= DBP westbound
> (note: parkway has a curb median at the tollbooths)
> T= Tollbooth
> C= Crossroad
> C
> T
> C
> WWWWWWWWWWW T WWWWWWWWW
> C
> EEEEEEEEEEEE T EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>
> Sometimes they are more complex than this...
>
> The DBP is the only toll road I've been on in KY. Are the other toll
> parkways like this? Were some/all of the former toll parkways like this?

I have a diagram of the most frequent interchange types on the parkways on
my web-site somewhere, I believei n the Moutain Pkwy. page.


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Sandor G

unread,
Dec 29, 2001, 11:46:56 PM12/29/01
to
"mrpete" <gtg...@prism.gatech.eduFILTER> wrote in message
news:u2t09ln...@corp.supernews.com...

> On Tuesday Dec 18 I took a one day roadtrip with my parents along the Ohio
> River east of Cincinnati and down through eastern Kentucky. I saw the new
> cable-stayed Ohio River bridge at Maysville. The basic route:
>
> US 52 to US 23 (at Portsmouth) to KY 80 to Daniel Boone Parkway to I-75 to
> I-275 to home.

<snip portion about US 52>

> The stretch of US 23 along the Ohio isn't as developed as I would have
> expected. Traffic moves quite well. There was a fair amount of traffic,
> but (if memory serves me right) not as much as the 4-lane US 52 on the
Ohio
> side of the river.
>
> US 23 is a 4 lane divided highway, but sometimes the median is paved and
> about the width of a lane. A busy railroad is near US 23

> US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it still
> needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the traffic
> that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> accomodate these beasts.
>
> US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
Kentucky
> and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts can be
> seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...
>
> I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes. Why couldn't long-distance
> traffic simply use US 23 down to Louisa and cross to West Virginia/US 52
> there?

My surmise about the competing 4 lane highways (between Ohio, Kentucky, and
West Virginia) would *local interests.* Meaning that each state was trying
to shore up their inferstructure to keep businesses from leaving *their*
state. If the region was under one jurisdiction instead of three, you
would of had just one 4 lane highway. Just a geographic quirk due to
borders.

> There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam.
This
> bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA Highway. The
> bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing
things
> off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where the
> lock workers were???)
>
> **Why don't all lock and dams have bridges across the top of them? It has
> to be *much* cheaper than a free-standing bridge.

First you would have to have a road to connect, then (and this is a guess)
holding weight would be considered.

<Kentucky portion sniped>


> ---
> -Pete Jenior - Cincinnati, Ohio
> -Freshman Civil Engineering Major
> Georgia Tech (downtown Atlanta)
> ~~~~
> "You're on the road
> But you've got no destination"
> -U2, "Beautiful Day"

--
Sandor G
Senior -- Ohio State Geography
www.roadfan.com


john cline ii

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 8:02:28 AM12/30/01
to

"mrpete" wrote in pertinent parts:
...

> US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the
Ohio River
> on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
> pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.

Er, NO! Named for Congressman Carl D. Perkins, who obtained most of
the funding for roads and lakes in the then Seventh Congressional
District. Rockabilly pioneer Carl and Congressman Carl were oft
confused for each other, to the amusement of both. Carl D. was to
Kentucky what Robert C. Byrd is to West Virginia, in many ways.

> I do not understand why Ohio uses SR 852 for their stretch of the
bridge
> instead of OH 104 or OH 73, since both of those routes end at the
foot of
> the bridge. Also, according to John Simpson, OH 852 is the second
highest
> number.
>
> This bridge is also carrying detour US 23, since the old US 23 bridge
(US
> Grant Bridge?) was recently torn down. The pilings at the site of the
US 23
> bridge can be seen, but that's about it. Do they have name for this
new
> bridge yet?

It is my understanding it is to retain the General Grant designation.

>> US 23 is a 4 lane divided highway, but sometimes the median is paved
and
> about the width of a lane. A busy railroad is near US 23

The mainline for CSXT, the former Chesapeake and Ohio.

> There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam.
This
> bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA
Highway. The
> bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing
things
> off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where
the
> lock workers were???)
>
> **Why don't all lock and dams have bridges across the top of them?
It has
> to be *much* cheaper than a free-standing bridge.

If they want a bridge atop the dam, states have to contribute to the
initial cost of the dam rehab or construction. The dam is constructed
differently in order to build the road atop it. Normally, one cannot
go back and build a bridge onto an existing dam unless it was designed
originally to allow for that, which Greenup was.

>
> Just downstream from Greenup L & D, there is a "pipe bridge" that
carries
> several pipes across the river.

When I was a child, the nuclear scare (RUSSIANS ARE GONNA BOMB US) was
in full swing. I was CERTAIN those towers, painted red and white in a
most scary fashion, actually were clever disguises for covers for
missiles aimed at Roosskie. (Given the Greenbrier television repair
shop actually bomb shelter for Congress story, perhaps I wasn't wrong!)


>
> Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH
as
> well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets
lead to
> the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue.
It is a
> narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.

When I was a boy, the sidewalks were wood, and about half the planks
seemed to be MISSING!

> US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it
still
> needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the
traffic
> that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> accomodate these beasts.
>
> US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
Kentucky
> and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts
can be
> seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...

The new hill cuts are for the four laning of US52, which is underway.


>
> I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes.

South of Catlettsburg, they aren't. Yet. In West Virginia, I will
probably be dead before the four laning of US52 is complete. If you
mean west of Catlettsburg, the traffic makes it necessary. One of the
problems of the Huntington/Ashland metro is that, unlike, say, Cinci,
there is much provincialism. There is currently a huge fight going on
between some Charlestonians and the rest of the West Virginia whether
to construct a regional airport. Eastern Kentucky has, rather
remarkably, come out FOR the regional airport. Compare Cincinnati
where the metro airport is in Kentucky. In Huntington/Ashland, major
marketers see the little communities separately, as do the locals.
There are duplicated roads on both sides of the river largely because
the locals do not have as many ties on the other side as would be
expected and do not do their business as if the area were a unified
whole. On the other hand, the Ironton/Russell bridge you crossed was
built by a private company, largely to afford access to the then
American Rolling Mill steel mill workers who lived in Ohio to the
Kentucky plant (later ARMCO then AK Steel). For many years it was
toll, with the tolls being collected in the widespot before the dogleg.
Later, it was acquired by ODOT and the tolls eventually removed. Most
Kentucky/Ohio bridges are owned by Kentucky, which claims to the low
water mark on the Ohio side.

> Why couldn't long-distance
> traffic simply use US 23 down to Louisa and cross to West Virginia/US
52
> there?

You kind of answered your own question above. MOST of the traffic is
NOT long-distance. It is coal truck traffic. Kentucky allows heavy
weight coal trucks in exchange for a user tax. West Virginia
supposedly does not.

> Took a side trip down the surprisingly busy KY 15 to see the "famous"
town
> of Hazzard.

Er, no Dukes! That would be HaZard (one z, please).

> The DBP is the only toll road I've been on in KY. Are the other toll
> parkways like this? Were some/all of the former toll parkways like
this?

For the most part, yes. And there was/is very little development along
the parkways. The joke was that each governor in the forties, fifties
and sixties built a tollway to his residence. I am not totally sure it
was a joke. NOW, they are being renamed to 'honor' them!

The Bluegrass Parkway is one of the loneliest drives I have ever taken,
and there is little development at most exits, even now.

john cline ii who thanks you for your perspective on a trip most
familiar, and who heartily recommends the Buckeye Dairy Bar in
Friendship, Ohio; corner of US52 and US125--best cherry malts east of
Denver!


mrpete

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 12:17:40 PM12/30/01
to

"Sherman Cahal" <she...@cahaltech.com> wrote in message
news:3c2e9...@corp.newsgroups.com...

> > On the Ohio side, a cloverleaf ramp carries US 62/68 traffic from US 52
up
> > to the bridge. On the Kentucky side, a large hill cut was made to carry
> US
> > 62/68 up away from the river (this road was opened before the bridge and
> > temporaily numbered KY 3071; KY 3071 shields now carry a "FORMERLY"
> banner.
>
> Any interchanges on the KY side? I recall seeing a BGS for one?

I'm almost certain there was one at KY 8; I only followed 62/68 far enough
to find a place to turn around, so there may have been more...


>
> > There is an old style rest area near the Adams/Scioto County line. Pit
> > toilets, and a working pump for a drinking fountain. Cool old
> construction.
> > I love these places!
>
> I need to drive down and get a pic. How far west is it from Portsmouth?
> (time or mileage)

It is almost directly across the river from Vanceburg, KY, if you see that
on a map. Looks like 21 miles west of Portsmouth.

> > There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam.
> This
> > bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA Highway.
The
> > bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing
> things
> > off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where
the
> > lock workers were???)
>
> Maybe to keep people from seeing the covert operations down there...

Haha. The "rest area"/Corps Public restrooms were closed, though, and I
believe it was for security reasons.

>
> Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH as
> > well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets lead
to
> > the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue. It
is
> a
> > narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.
>
> That would be the Russel-Ironton bridge. It is slated to be replaced 2003
> with a bridge at the top of the hill (where KY 244 (viaduct) and US 23
join
> at).

Sounds good to me. A cable-stayed, or an older design?


>
> > Back in Kentucky, US 23 is slower (but not unreasonably so) from
Russell,
> > though Ashland and down to I-64. There are many homes and businesses
> along
> > this stretch.
>
> Did you see AK Steel? It's shit now. I am waiting for the Blast Furnace to
> blow up since they haven't relined it in about 10 years (max should be
about
> 6 years). The reling keeps the heat from exploding the steel.

Not sure if they saw it or not. There is an AK steel plant in Middletown,
Ohio (west of 75 between Cincinnati and Dayton). This was the original
ARMCO Steel Plant that makes up the "A" in AK (the K is a Japanese company).
Apparently they are one of the safest plants in the nation, but they also
are one of the leaders in deaths over the last 20 years or so.

>
> > US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it
still
> > needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the
traffic
> > that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> > accomodate these beasts.
>
> The new pavement on US 23 south of I-64 uses: some sort of new
technological
> pavement, supposed to prevent the rutting the trucks did beforehand. Why
> KYDOH didn't use concrete in the mid-80's still amazes me.

I will say that the pavement wasn't rutted. Why do you say KYDOH instead of
KYTC?


>
> > US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
> Kentucky
> > and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts can
be
> > seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...
>
> US 52 alredy exists in WVA. The new road is I-73/74. The one you most
likely
> saw is the Prichard bypass with a northern extension. Near I-64, you might
> have noticed some massive fills near Huntington for the new interchange at
> WV 75/US 52.

I should have said the rebuilding/widening/4-laning of US 52. I'm not going
to call it I-73 since there are going to be at-grades...


>
> > I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes. Why couldn't
long-distance
> > traffic simply use US 23 down to Louisa and cross to West Virginia/US 52
> > there?
>
> US 23 is already clogged with coal trucks. If you have ever been on US 52,
> it is also clogged with coal trucks.

If there are as many coal trucks on 52 as 23, I can certainly understand...
>
-Pete


mrpete

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 12:40:23 PM12/30/01
to

"john cline ii" <jwciit...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:EfEX7.2667$ym....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

>
> "mrpete" wrote in pertinent parts:
> ...
> > US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the
> Ohio River
> > on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
> > pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.
>
> Er, NO! Named for Congressman Carl D. Perkins, who obtained most of
> the funding for roads and lakes in the then Seventh Congressional
> District. Rockabilly pioneer Carl and Congressman Carl were oft
> confused for each other, to the amusement of both. Carl D. was to
> Kentucky what Robert C. Byrd is to West Virginia, in many ways.

OH - my mistake!! With US 23 being the Country Music Highway I thought for
sure that....


>
> > There is an Ohio River Bridge across the top of Greenup Lock and Dam.
> This
> > bridge is an extension of KY 10, one the 2 branches of the AA
> Highway. The
> > bridge had fences all along it, as if to prevent people from throwing
> things
> > off the bridge (why would it matter unless you were at the spot where
> the
> > lock workers were???)
> >
> > **Why don't all lock and dams have bridges across the top of them?
> It has
> > to be *much* cheaper than a free-standing bridge.
>
> If they want a bridge atop the dam, states have to contribute to the
> initial cost of the dam rehab or construction. The dam is constructed
> differently in order to build the road atop it. Normally, one cannot
> go back and build a bridge onto an existing dam unless it was designed
> originally to allow for that, which Greenup was.

Thanks - I've never heard that before.

> >
> > Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH
> as
> > well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets
> lead to
> > the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue.
> It is a
> > narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.
>
> When I was a boy, the sidewalks were wood, and about half the planks
> seemed to be MISSING!

Sweet!


>
> > US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it
> still
> > needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the
> traffic
> > that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> > accomodate these beasts.
> >
> > US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
> Kentucky
> > and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts
> can be
> > seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...
>
> The new hill cuts are for the four laning of US52, which is underway.
> >
> > I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes.
>
> South of Catlettsburg, they aren't. Yet. In West Virginia, I will
> probably be dead before the four laning of US52 is complete. If you
> mean west of Catlettsburg, the traffic makes it necessary. One of the
> problems of the Huntington/Ashland metro is that, unlike, say, Cinci,
> there is much provincialism. There is currently a huge fight going on
> between some Charlestonians and the rest of the West Virginia whether
> to construct a regional airport. Eastern Kentucky has, rather
> remarkably, come out FOR the regional airport. Compare Cincinnati
> where the metro airport is in Kentucky.

This is all very interesting. In Cincinnati, people feel they are part of
the "Tristate" and have more a connection to, say, Lexington than Cleveland.

In Huntington/Ashland, major
> marketers see the little communities separately, as do the locals.
> There are duplicated roads on both sides of the river largely because
> the locals do not have as many ties on the other side as would be
> expected and do not do their business as if the area were a unified
> whole. On the other hand, the Ironton/Russell bridge you crossed was
> built by a private company, largely to afford access to the then
> American Rolling Mill steel mill workers who lived in Ohio to the
> Kentucky plant (later ARMCO then AK Steel). For many years it was
> toll, with the tolls being collected in the widespot before the dogleg.

Interesting!

> Later, it was acquired by ODOT and the tolls eventually removed. Most
> Kentucky/Ohio bridges are owned by Kentucky, which claims to the low
> water mark on the Ohio side.
>
>

> > Took a side trip down the surprisingly busy KY 15 to see the "famous"
> town
> > of Hazzard.
>
> Er, no Dukes! That would be HaZard (one z, please).

Sorry. My mistake.


>
> > The DBP is the only toll road I've been on in KY. Are the other toll
> > parkways like this? Were some/all of the former toll parkways like
> this?
>
> For the most part, yes. And there was/is very little development along
> the parkways. The joke was that each governor in the forties, fifties
> and sixties built a tollway to his residence. I am not totally sure it
> was a joke. NOW, they are being renamed to 'honor' them!
>
> The Bluegrass Parkway is one of the loneliest drives I have ever taken,
> and there is little development at most exits, even now.

The fact that it doesn't connect to I-64/75 doesn't help things...


>
> john cline ii who thanks you for your perspective on a trip most
> familiar, and who heartily recommends the Buckeye Dairy Bar in
> Friendship, Ohio; corner of US52 and US125--best cherry malts east of
> Denver!
>

Nice!
-Pete


Sherman Cahal

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 3:43:35 PM12/30/01
to

> Haha. The "rest area"/Corps Public restrooms were closed, though, and I
> believe it was for security reasons.

Still closed today... I think it's been closed longer than the terriorist
attacks. Maybe someone took a shit too long down there. It certaintly didn't
attract too many people.

> Sounds good to me. A cable-stayed, or an older design?

Cable-stayed.

> > Did you see AK Steel? It's shit now. I am waiting for the Blast Furnace
to
> > blow up since they haven't relined it in about 10 years (max should be
> about
> > 6 years). The reling keeps the heat from exploding the steel.
>
> Not sure if they saw it or not. There is an AK steel plant in Middletown,
> Ohio (west of 75 between Cincinnati and Dayton). This was the original
> ARMCO Steel Plant that makes up the "A" in AK (the K is a Japanese
company).
> Apparently they are one of the safest plants in the nation, but they also
> are one of the leaders in deaths over the last 20 years or so.

Used to be the good ol' ARMCO but got bought out by shit called AK Steel,
which stands for American Komosoki.

> I will say that the pavement wasn't rutted. Why do you say KYDOH instead
of
> KYTC?

I used to say KYDOT too :-)

> I should have said the rebuilding/widening/4-laning of US 52. I'm not
going
> to call it I-73 since there are going to be at-grades...

At grades? The new portions have no at-grades. You might be thinking about
the Huntington area near the I-64 interchange. That was built as a seperate
project, and has been extended southward for about 1 milewith the mega
interchange, with a grass median. I believe the new alignment will fall on
the other side of the creek.
The Williamson project was built as Corridor G and wasn't related to I-73.

Sherman Cahal

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 3:48:12 PM12/30/01
to
> > > Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and Ironton, OH
> > as
> > > well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local streets
> > lead to
> > > the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted blue.
> > It is a
> > > narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.
> >
> > When I was a boy, the sidewalks were wood, and about half the planks
> > seemed to be MISSING!
>
> Sweet!

When was this? Before the 1980-era rehab?

> > > US 23 carries much less traffic south of I-64. Clearly, though, it
> > still
> > > needs to be 4 lanes - coal trucks seemed to account for 50% of the
> > traffic
> > > that day. 23 was built with all kind of turn lanes and merge lanes to
> > > accomodate these beasts.
> > >
> > > US 23 runs near the Big Sandy River, which forms the border between
> > Kentucky
> > > and West Virginia. Across the river (in WV) lots of new hill cuts
> > can be
> > > seen. This suggests that building US 52 was no easy task...
> >
> > The new hill cuts are for the four laning of US52, which is underway.
> > >
> > > I wonder why both US 23 and US 52 are 4 lanes.
> >
> > South of Catlettsburg, they aren't. Yet. In West Virginia, I will
> > probably be dead before the four laning of US52 is complete. If you
> > mean west of Catlettsburg, the traffic makes it necessary. One of the
> > problems of the Huntington/Ashland metro is that, unlike, say, Cinci,
> > there is much provincialism. There is currently a huge fight going on
> > between some Charlestonians and the rest of the West Virginia whether
> > to construct a regional airport. Eastern Kentucky has, rather
> > remarkably, come out FOR the regional airport. Compare Cincinnati
> > where the metro airport is in Kentucky.

Um, they voted For the airport a few days ago. That's good news :-)
US 52 is going well, and is expected to be complete in 999,999,999 years
going at this rate. At least you have a new portion being built north of
Prichard, south of Huntington, near Crum, near Welch, and near Bluefield.
All limited-access, no at-grades.

> > The Bluegrass Parkway is one of the loneliest drives I have ever taken,
> > and there is little development at most exits, even now.

I about fell asleep there. And the speed limit is STILL 65 mph...

john cline ii

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 4:23:12 PM12/30/01
to

"Sherman Cahal" asked and wrote in pertinent part:

> > > > Crossed the old Ohio River bridge between Russell, KY and
Ironton, OH
> > > as
> > > > well. It is actually rather difficult to find what local
streets
> > > lead to
> > > > the bridge (it isn't a direct approach). The bridge painted
blue.
> > > It is a
> > > > narrow 2 lanes and has a metal grate for a surface.
> > >
> > > When I was a boy, the sidewalks were wood, and about half the
planks
> > > seemed to be MISSING!
> >
> > Sweet!
>
> When was this? Before the 1980-era rehab?

Late 1950's....(sigh).

> Um, they voted For the airport a few days ago. That's good news :-)

It is tentative news. The authority voted for the airport. The
decision itself is far from being made. Even the Governor has not yet
weighed in.

> US 52 is going well, and is expected to be complete in 999,999,999
years
> going at this rate. At least you have a new portion being built north
of
> Prichard, south of Huntington, near Crum, near Welch, and near
Bluefield.
> All limited-access, no at-grades.
>
> > > The Bluegrass Parkway is one of the loneliest drives I have ever
taken,
> > > and there is little development at most exits, even now.
>
> I about fell asleep there. And the speed limit is STILL 65 mph...

Don't complain! It WAS 55 and heavily patrolled!

john cline ii who hopes this helps


David Norris

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 7:50:21 PM12/30/01
to
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:43:35 -0500, "Sherman Cahal"
<she...@cahaltech.com> wrote:

>
>> Haha. The "rest area"/Corps Public restrooms were closed, though, and I
>> believe it was for security reasons.
>
>Still closed today... I think it's been closed longer than the terriorist
>attacks. Maybe someone took a shit too long down there. It certaintly didn't
>attract too many people.
>

We (ODOT) were going to close it anyway, but the Corps asked us to
close it after the 9/11 incidents, to keep people away from the dam
and hydroelectric power plant. About the only people who used it were
fishermen.


>> Sounds good to me. A cable-stayed, or an older design?
>
>Cable-stayed.
>

We don't know what type of bridge it will be yet. There is a chance
that it will be a cable-stay design.

Dave Norris
Lucasville, OH

mrpete

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 8:54:34 PM12/30/01
to

"David Norris" <GoB...@scum.still.sucks> wrote in message
news:ocdv2ucvc701iu8n4...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:43:35 -0500, "Sherman Cahal"
> <she...@cahaltech.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Haha. The "rest area"/Corps Public restrooms were closed, though, and
I
> >> believe it was for security reasons.
> >
> >Still closed today... I think it's been closed longer than the terriorist
> >attacks. Maybe someone took a shit too long down there. It certaintly
didn't
> >attract too many people.
> >
>
> We (ODOT) were going to close it anyway, but the Corps asked us to
> close it after the 9/11 incidents, to keep people away from the dam
> and hydroelectric power plant. About the only people who used it were
> fishermen.
>
I'm talking about something on the Kentucky side of Greenup L & D - maybe
you misunderstood me...
-Pete


john cline ii

unread,
Dec 30, 2001, 9:08:06 PM12/30/01
to

"mrpete" <gtg...@prism.gatech.eduFILTER> wrote in message
news:u2vhbi3...@corp.supernews.com...

There are rest areas/parks on both sides of the Ohio at the Greenup
Lock and Dam, along with fishermans' access. Both sides are closed due
to security concerns, raised by the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission due to the hydro-electric dam located there, or so local
newspaper accounts say.

mrpete

unread,
Dec 31, 2001, 12:37:30 PM12/31/01
to

"john cline ii" <jwciit...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aMPX7.2622$TM3....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Yes it does. I was assuming that Greenup was like Mehldal L & D, where
there are only facilities on the side with the locks. Mehldal doesn't have
a bridge, so it would be hard for the Corps to maintain things on the other
side of the river...

-Pete


Elkins, H.B.

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 2:30:26 PM1/3/02
to
"mrpete" <gtg...@prism.gatech.eduFILTER> wrote:


>The old routing of US 62/68 now carries a "business" designation. This
>includes the old Simon Kenton bridge.

The last time I was there, the signs in Ohio said "ALT" instead of
"BUSINESS." Is this still the case?

>US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the Ohio River
>on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
>pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.

Actually, the Carl Perkins the bridge is named for is the longtime
socialist congressman from Hindman (Knott County) who represented the
old 7th Congressional District for years. He funnelled all sorts of
federal money into the area and as a result, probably has as many
things named for him in eastern Kentucky as Robert Byrd does in all of
West Virginia. ;-)


>[For those following along and wondering where KY 4 is, it is a loop around
>Lexington and nowhere nearby]

The original KY 4 was the old routing of US 460 from south of
Pikeville to the Virginia line, before the building of Fishtrap Lake
in the 1950s resulted in the rerouting of US 460.

>It would make sense to switch US 460 and SR 114 between the Mountain Parkway
>and US 23 (look at the route of 460)

US 460 is a late addition to the US highway system (relatively
speaking). Originally, KY 40 ran from the state line all the way west
to Frankfort. In 1949 or 1950, US 460 was extended into Kentucky along
the aforementioned KY 4, the long multiplex with US 23 to Paintsville,
along KY 40 to Salyersville, West Liberty and on west to Frankfort,
where it joined US 60 to Louisville. The routing of KY 40 between
Paintsville and Salyersville actually carries the number it first had.
It used to be US 460, but when the new US 460 was built in the late
1970s, the KY 40 designation was returned to the road.

>Light traffic on KY 80 and almost no coal trucks. I'm kind of surprised
>that it is 4 lanes - seems like an improved 2 lane road would be fine here.
>
>KY 80 is almost as impressive as US 23 in terms of the hill cuts and
>fill-ins that were required.

KY 80 is Kentucky's "resource recovery road." It was built mostly with
coal severance tax revenues and was built to serve the enormous amount
of coal truck traffic which used to travel the old highway (KY 550, KY
777 and KY 1428 now). The coal business in Kentucky has slacked
tremendously from what it was when KY 80 was built in the late '70s.

>There is a rumble strip down the middle (yellow line) of the DBP. It work
>very well.

The rumble strip (which I have not yet seen) was added last year
because of a large number of fatal accidents on the DBP, especially in
the Clay County area.

>The DBP is in better shape and it better built than the two lane portion of
>the Mountian Parkway (KY's other Super 2).

It's about 10-15 years newer, so it was built to more modern design
standards.

>The DBP is the only toll road I've been on in KY. Are the other toll
>parkways like this? Were some/all of the former toll parkways like this?

No. The DBP's always been a strange duck among Kentucky toll roads,
both in signage and in design. None of the other former toll roads
were configured like the DBP's toll roads.

Once upon a time, someone posted a Terraserver link to one of the
DBP's at-grade intersections with toll booths.

>At London, the road that goes to the north of town (sometimes called DBP/KY
>80, other times called only KY 80) was closed. Traffic was detoured to the
>south of town on KY 192.

I think this is because of ongoing construction on what will
eventually be a new route between I-75 at London and I-64 at Grayson.
For those of you with atlases handy, this route will follow (roughly)
KY 30 from London to Levi, KY 11 from Levi to Zachariah, KY 715 from
Zachariah to Pine Ridge, the Mountain Parkway from Pine Ridge to Lee
City, KY 205 from Lee City to near West Liberty, US 460 and KY 7 from
West Liberty to Graysons. Portions are already complete (13 miles of
KY 11 in two sections, the Mountain Parkway and KY 205 portions, and
the KY 7 section south of Grayson) but the rest will take awhile to
build. I believe work has started on the southernmost part of KY 30,
which is to tie in the DBP north of downtown London.

I'd like to see Kentucky name and sign this road the LA Highway
(London to Ashland, which is what local boosters call it) in a fashion
similar to the AA Highway.

>Were the old weigh stations on I-75 at MM 43? It sure looks like they were.
>(I keep forgetting to ask this).

Yes.

>Based on replies to a previous post, my pictures from this trip are promised
>to Adam Prince and Sherman Cahal.

If you have anything good, I'd love to see them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net or mailto:HB...@aol.com
http://www.millenniumhwy.net
http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins

"There's no doubt he's the best race driver in the world."
--Dale Jarrett, on Dale Earnhardt (RIP 2/18/01)

Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but North Carolina
To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Elkins, H.B.

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 2:34:42 PM1/3/02
to
"Sandor G" <bt...@bright.net> wrote:

>My surmise about the competing 4 lane highways (between Ohio, Kentucky, and
>West Virginia) would *local interests.* Meaning that each state was trying
>to shore up their inferstructure to keep businesses from leaving *their*
>state. If the region was under one jurisdiction instead of three, you
>would of had just one 4 lane highway. Just a geographic quirk due to
>borders.

All of US 23 in Kentucky is an Appalachian Corridor. The only parts of
US 52 in either state that are ARC corridors are the portion from the
east end of the Jesse Stuart Bridge to US 23 in Ohio and the
multiplexed part with US 119 in West Virginia.

Elkins, H.B.

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 2:38:19 PM1/3/02
to
"john cline ii" <jwciit...@earthlink.net> wrote:


>For the most part, yes. And there was/is very little development along
>the parkways. The joke was that each governor in the forties, fifties
>and sixties built a tollway to his residence. I am not totally sure it
>was a joke. NOW, they are being renamed to 'honor' them!

Bert T. Combs built the Mountain Parkway (named for him), the BG and
WK parkways.
Louie B. Nunn built the Cumberland Parkway (named for him), Daniel
Boone, Green River, Audubon, Pennyrile and Purchase Parkways.

Scott M. Kozel

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 3:03:10 PM1/3/02
to
hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net (Elkins, H.B.) wrote:
>
> "john cline ii" <jwciit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >For the most part, yes. And there was/is very little development along
> >the parkways. The joke was that each governor in the forties, fifties
> >and sixties built a tollway to his residence. I am not totally sure it
> >was a joke. NOW, they are being renamed to 'honor' them!
>
> Bert T. Combs built the Mountain Parkway (named for him), the BG and
> WK parkways.
> Louie B. Nunn built the Cumberland Parkway (named for him), Daniel
> Boone, Green River, Audubon, Pennyrile and Purchase Parkways.

"Built" in what sense? The state official that led the planning, design
and construction? The contractor that built the highway?

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

David Jensen

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 4:12:53 PM1/3/02
to
On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:03:10 GMT, in misc.transport.road
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@mediaone.net> wrote in
<3C34BB0A...@mediaone.net>:


>hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net (Elkins, H.B.) wrote:
>>
>> "john cline ii" <jwciit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >For the most part, yes. And there was/is very little development along
>> >the parkways. The joke was that each governor in the forties, fifties
>> >and sixties built a tollway to his residence. I am not totally sure it
>> >was a joke. NOW, they are being renamed to 'honor' them!
>>
>> Bert T. Combs built the Mountain Parkway (named for him), the BG and
>> WK parkways.
>> Louie B. Nunn built the Cumberland Parkway (named for him), Daniel
>> Boone, Green River, Audubon, Pennyrile and Purchase Parkways.
>
>"Built" in what sense? The state official that led the planning, design
>and construction? The contractor that built the highway?

The Governor who took credit for it, of course.

Sherman Cahal

unread,
Jan 3, 2002, 4:15:33 PM1/3/02
to

> No. The DBP's always been a strange duck among Kentucky toll roads,
> both in signage and in design. None of the other former toll roads
> were configured like the DBP's toll roads.
>
> Once upon a time, someone posted a Terraserver link to one of the
> DBP's at-grade intersections with toll booths.

Is the DBP concrete with asphalt bridge approach ramps? That's the way it
appears in the images...

> I think this is because of ongoing construction on what will
> eventually be a new route between I-75 at London and I-64 at Grayson.
> For those of you with atlases handy, this route will follow (roughly)
> KY 30 from London to Levi, KY 11 from Levi to Zachariah, KY 715 from
> Zachariah to Pine Ridge, the Mountain Parkway from Pine Ridge to Lee
> City, KY 205 from Lee City to near West Liberty, US 460 and KY 7 from
> West Liberty to Graysons. Portions are already complete (13 miles of
> KY 11 in two sections, the Mountain Parkway and KY 205 portions, and
> the KY 7 section south of Grayson) but the rest will take awhile to
> build. I believe work has started on the southernmost part of KY 30,
> which is to tie in the DBP north of downtown London.
>
> I'd like to see Kentucky name and sign this road the LA Highway
> (London to Ashland, which is what local boosters call it) in a fashion
> similar to the AA Highway.

The KY 7 portion was built as an upgrade to the old route, which featured a
1 lane bridge and narrow lanes in the late 60's. The design of the road is
pretty free flowing and straight, including bridges over railroads, etc...
until you reach Grayson Lake, where it narrows down, gets more curvy, etc...
I am guessing it will branch off from here?

Pete Jenior

unread,
Jan 4, 2002, 12:04:11 AM1/4/02
to

"Sherman Cahal" <she...@cahaltech.com> wrote in message
news:3c34c...@corp.newsgroups.com...

>
> > No. The DBP's always been a strange duck among Kentucky toll roads,
> > both in signage and in design. None of the other former toll roads
> > were configured like the DBP's toll roads.
> >
> > Once upon a time, someone posted a Terraserver link to one of the
> > DBP's at-grade intersections with toll booths.
>
> Is the DBP concrete with asphalt bridge approach ramps? That's the way it
> appears in the images...
>
I seem to remember the DBP as mostly asphalt, but I didn't really pay
attention to it either.
-Pete


Pete Jenior

unread,
Jan 4, 2002, 12:11:37 AM1/4/02
to

"Elkins, H.B." <hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net> wrote in message
news:3c34ac65...@news.newsguy.com...

> "mrpete" <gtg...@prism.gatech.eduFILTER> wrote:
>
>
> >The old routing of US 62/68 now carries a "business" designation. This
> >includes the old Simon Kenton bridge.
>
> The last time I was there, the signs in Ohio said "ALT" instead of
> "BUSINESS." Is this still the case?

In Ohio the signs say BUSINESS, not ALT. I will send pictures...


>
> >US 52 opens up to 4 lanes approaching Portsmouth. We crossed the Ohio
River
> >on the relatively new Carl Perkins Bridge, named after the rockabilly
> >pioneer. This bridge is OH 852 and KY 8.
>
> Actually, the Carl Perkins the bridge is named for is the longtime
> socialist congressman from Hindman (Knott County) who represented the
> old 7th Congressional District for years. He funnelled all sorts of
> federal money into the area and as a result, probably has as many
> things named for him in eastern Kentucky as Robert Byrd does in all of
> West Virginia. ;-)

Thanks - someone else also caught my mistake...


>
>
> >[For those following along and wondering where KY 4 is, it is a loop
around
> >Lexington and nowhere nearby]
>
> The original KY 4 was the old routing of US 460 from south of
> Pikeville to the Virginia line, before the building of Fishtrap Lake
> in the 1950s resulted in the rerouting of US 460.
>
> >It would make sense to switch US 460 and SR 114 between the Mountain
Parkway
> >and US 23 (look at the route of 460)
>
> US 460 is a late addition to the US highway system (relatively
> speaking). Originally, KY 40 ran from the state line all the way west
> to Frankfort. In 1949 or 1950, US 460 was extended into Kentucky along
> the aforementioned KY 4, the long multiplex with US 23 to Paintsville,
> along KY 40 to Salyersville, West Liberty and on west to Frankfort,
> where it joined US 60 to Louisville. The routing of KY 40 between
> Paintsville and Salyersville actually carries the number it first had.
> It used to be US 460, but when the new US 460 was built in the late
> 1970s, the KY 40 designation was returned to the road.

Nice info.
>
[snip]


>
> >At London, the road that goes to the north of town (sometimes called
DBP/KY
> >80, other times called only KY 80) was closed. Traffic was detoured to
the
> >south of town on KY 192.
>
> I think this is because of ongoing construction on what will
> eventually be a new route between I-75 at London and I-64 at Grayson.
> For those of you with atlases handy, this route will follow (roughly)
> KY 30 from London to Levi, KY 11 from Levi to Zachariah, KY 715 from
> Zachariah to Pine Ridge, the Mountain Parkway from Pine Ridge to Lee
> City, KY 205 from Lee City to near West Liberty, US 460 and KY 7 from
> West Liberty to Graysons. Portions are already complete (13 miles of
> KY 11 in two sections, the Mountain Parkway and KY 205 portions, and
> the KY 7 section south of Grayson) but the rest will take awhile to
> build. I believe work has started on the southernmost part of KY 30,
> which is to tie in the DBP north of downtown London.

Wow! This is the first I've heard of this project. Is I-74 to I-64 or
DBP?KY 80 to Us 23 just not good enough for the all important London-Grayson
corridor? IN all seriousness, I applaud KY's road building...

What time of road is this going to be? Two lanes like the AA? Is it mainly
on new terrain or is it an upgrade of existing roadway?


>
> I'd like to see Kentucky name and sign this road the LA Highway
> (London to Ashland, which is what local boosters call it) in a fashion
> similar to the AA Highway.
>

[snip]

Bush Stole The Election

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Jan 4, 2002, 12:25:19 AM1/4/02
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On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:30:26 GMT, hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net
(Elkins, H.B.) said:

>Actually, the Carl Perkins the bridge is named for is the longtime
>socialist congressman from Hindman (Knott County) who represented the
>old 7th Congressional District for years.

Carl Perkins was cool. The 4th District needs a congressperson like Carl
Perkins.

--

I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative!
------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------

Elkins, H.B.

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Jan 4, 2002, 9:40:20 AM1/4/02
to
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@mediaone.net> wrote:

>"Built" in what sense? The state official that led the planning, design
>and construction? The contractor that built the highway?

The politician who conceived the highway. I'm sure these governors
didn't have much to do with the actual planning and design. ;-)

Elkins, H.B.

unread,
Jan 4, 2002, 9:44:16 AM1/4/02
to
"Sherman Cahal" <she...@cahaltech.com> wrote:

>Is the DBP concrete with asphalt bridge approach ramps? That's the way it
>appears in the images...

I think the DBP has pretty much been repaved with asphalt. I can't
remember how much of it was originally asphalt and how much was
concrete.

>The KY 7 portion was built as an upgrade to the old route, which featured a
>1 lane bridge and narrow lanes in the late 60's. The design of the road is
>pretty free flowing and straight, including bridges over railroads, etc...
>until you reach Grayson Lake, where it narrows down, gets more curvy, etc...
>I am guessing it will branch off from here?

The portion around Grayson Lake was relocated by the Corps of
Engineers (I can always tell a Corps road construction project when I
see or drive on one -- don't ask me why or how, but I can). I remember
the old portion north of the lake to Grayson, but don't remember the
one-lane bridge. KY 7 was always our preferred route to get to I-64
for trips to West Virginia to visit relatives.

Last spring, I was in Grayson and got some photos of some very, very
old KY 7 signs at the old KY 7-US 60 intersection. They're somewhere
on my millenniumhwy.net index site -- probably under Old Signs. You
can see some old faded US shield signage under the paint.

Elkins, H.B.

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Jan 4, 2002, 9:51:37 AM1/4/02
to
"Pete Jenior" <gtg...@prism.gatech.eduFILTER> wrote:

>In Ohio the signs say BUSINESS, not ALT. I will send pictures...

That, then, is a change. I have photos of the ALT banners on
millenniumhwy.net


>Wow! This is the first I've heard of this project. Is I-74 to I-64 or
>DBP?KY 80 to Us 23 just not good enough for the all important London-Grayson
>corridor? IN all seriousness, I applaud KY's road building...

It's an economic development and hazard elimination project. Many of
the counties the highway will run through (Jackson, Owsley, Lee and
Elliott, chiefly) have not seen the highway construction that other
counties have. They have no high-speed, safe links to the parkways and
interstates.

KY 30 from London to Levi (the KY 11 intersection in Owsley County) is
God-awful, especially the part from US 421 north. This appears as a
red-line primary route on official Kentucky road maps, but it's
narrow, crooked and hilly.

Local leaders have pushed for a route connecting the Mountain Parkway
to I-75 for years. There has also been a push to connect the Parkway
to I-64 as well. It's hoped that the road will stimulate economic
development in the isolated, depressed areas it will pass through
(Owsley County is consistently ranked among the nation's five poorest
counties) and they also hope to divert some through truck traffic that
currently uses I-75 north to I-64 east, or perhaps cuts across KY 627.

>What time of road is this going to be? Two lanes like the AA? Is it mainly
>on new terrain or is it an upgrade of existing roadway?

What's already been built is two lanes like the AA. Most of it will be
relocated. The existing KY 30, KY 11, KY 715 and KY 7, for the most
part, would not easily lend themselves to being upgraded.

Completion of this project is probably 20 years down the road,
although KYTC is doing scoping studies on most of the routes.

Scott M. Kozel

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Jan 4, 2002, 6:11:11 PM1/4/02
to
hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net (Elkins, H.B.) wrote:
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> >"Built" in what sense? The state official that led the planning, design
> >and construction? The contractor that built the highway?
>
> The politician who conceived the highway. I'm sure these governors
> didn't have much to do with the actual planning and design. ;-)

OK! :-)

David Norris

unread,
Jan 6, 2002, 12:36:09 PM1/6/02
to
I uploaded a few pictures I took of the Carl Perkins bridge last
spring. You can see them at
http://dnorris5.tripod.com/CarlPerkinsBridge.html

I also have some of the US Grant Bridge, before it was closed and
demolished.
http://dnorris5.tripod.com/USGrantBridge.html

On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:30:26 GMT, hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net

(Elkins, H.B.) wrote:

Dave Norris
Lucasville, OH

Sherman Cahal

unread,
Jan 6, 2002, 4:08:59 PM1/6/02
to
David, do you mind if I put a link to your pictures from my KyRoads site?
I'm a little low on space.


--Sherman Cahal
http://www.cahaltech.com
http://www.kyohwv.roadsites.org/

"David Norris" <GoB...@scum.still.sucks> wrote in message

news:sg2h3uk5btkjrl4tk...@4ax.com...

David Norris

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Jan 6, 2002, 6:05:45 PM1/6/02
to
Go ahead and link to it..
I had to put some of my pics on Tripod, since my ISP has a limit.

Dave Norris
Lucasville, OH

Sherman Cahal

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Jan 6, 2002, 7:22:44 PM1/6/02
to

> I had to put some of my pics on Tripod, since my ISP has a limit.

Mine is 50 MB for about $5.00 a month, but I can't get more space without
upgrading an entire package, which runs $10.00 a month for 100 MB of space.

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