Princeton's attitude problem

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famartin

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Nov 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/23/99
to
The following public service announcement is an anti-Princeton rant, and
not necessarily the opinion of this server:

>Ya know, its funny how Princeton acts as if it's 'better' than the rest
of central
>New Jersey. Back in the mid '60s, they pushed I-95's route away from
them,
>starting a huge amount of anti-I-95 sentiment that resulted in the
cancellation
>of the road (which is still, in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes
of
>NJDOT history, but it really wasn't up to them, I suppose... they
wanted to
>build it). Then, back in 1995, with traffic levels soaring, they ask
I-95 be built
>(but of course, not anywhere near Princeton...) Now, they insist NJ 92
be
>built as a solution for their traffic problems (but of course, not
anywhere near
>them...) They act like they deserve BETTER treatment than the rest of
central
>NJ... although I think both roads should be (or should have been)
built, but it
>would serve Princeton right if none of them were, and Princeton becomes

>completely overwhelmed...
>
>Or, they could build I-95 directly through the center of town, and
extend NJ
>92 west and have it link with I-95 in the center of Princeton in one,
massive
>interchange... (that would also, hopefully, swallow up all the NIMBY's
>property...)
>
>Princeton sux...

The previous anti-Princeton rant was courtesy of:

Raymond C Martin Jr
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/7642/index.html


Michael Tantillo

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Nov 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/23/99
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famartin <fama...@email.eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in message
news:383A3C01...@email.eden.rutgers.edu...

As long as there is no local access so that the Princetonians themselves
can't use the roads, i'm all for a downtown Princeton NJ 92/I-95
interchange!

Vinnie Ferrari

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Nov 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/23/99
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> >
> >Princeton sux...

And you can hear me at Lynah Rink saying the same thing!

Favorite Big Red Hockey Chants:

"Colgate is a toothpaste"
"What color is s***? BROWN!!!"
"What the f***'s a catamount?!?!?" (for U Vermont)
"George Bush went to Yale"
and
"PRINCETON'S IN NEW JERSEY!"

Princeton Sux

--
Happy Motoring

Vinnie
--------------------------
Visit Vinnie's home on the web:
www.geocities.com/vinnieferrari/


Daniel Salomon

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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I have some other relevant issues with Princeton. They have signs posted
in the downtown area that say "No Bicycles". It's unclear whether the
sign refers to riding on the sidewalk (which is OK to ban), or a ban on
bicycles on the road completely, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Princeton is also full of pedestrians who walk out into traffic without
looking and yell at drivers that they have the right of way. While I have
to admit doing this here in Cambridge from time to time, it is done with a
certain obnoxious attitude in Princeton.

The combined Princeton township and borough police forces seem to have one
of the highest police to population ratios anywhere.

Oh, and they ban overnight parking in the borough, but only with very
small signs at the entrances. I make a point to look for such things, and
I didn't even notice them until the third or fourth time I entered the
borough.

-Dan

"Princeton, ugggggh."
-Sideshow Bob

Michael Tantillo <mj...@duke.edu> wrote:

: famartin <fama...@email.eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in message
: news:383A3C01...@email.eden.rutgers.edu...

<snip>

:> >Or, they could build I-95 directly through the center of town, and

Exile on Market Street

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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In article <81fokc$9qs$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu>, Daniel Salomon
<dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> I have some other relevant issues with Princeton.

Exhibit A in my catalog of examples of Terminal Charm is Princeton.

Brookline, Mass., comes awfully close to illustrating the concept too.

--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Associate Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/

'ome is where you 'ang your @.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exile on Market Street

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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In article <iDJ_3.9708$JD1.6...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>, "Vinnie Ferrari"

<vinnie...@unforgettable.com> wrote:

> Favorite Big Red Hockey Chants:
>
> "Colgate is a toothpaste"

I still remember a _Daily Pennsylvanian_ headline on a fall Friday edition
about a decade back:

"Penn hopes to spit out Colgate"

Vinnie Ferrari

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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Exile on Market Street <smi...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:smiths-ya02408000...@netnews.upenn.edu...

> In article <iDJ_3.9708$JD1.6...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>, "Vinnie Ferrari"
> <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> wrote:
>
> > Favorite Big Red Hockey Chants:
> >
> > "Colgate is a toothpaste"
>
> I still remember a _Daily Pennsylvanian_ headline on a fall Friday edition
> about a decade back:
>
> "Penn hopes to spit out Colgate"
>
> --
ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca Urinal
aren't that clever.

Jason Hancock

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Nov 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/24/99
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David J. Greenberger wrote:
>
> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

Iowa City Press-Citizen: substitute the "c" in "Citizen" with "sh" and
you'll get it...

--Jason
---------------------------------
<http://members.xoom.com/jhancoc>
Home of the Iowa Highways Page & Freeway Junctions of the Heartland
---------------------------------
Spammers win a one-way trip to the TRASH CAN!


David J. Greenberger

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
"Vinnie Ferrari" <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> writes:

> ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca
> Urinal aren't that clever.

What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of


course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

--
David J. Greenberger
Department of Computer Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

George Kowal

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
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Michael Tantillo wrote:

> famartin <fama...@email.eden.rutgers.edu> wrote in message
> news:383A3C01...@email.eden.rutgers.edu...

> > The following public service announcement is an anti-Princeton rant, and
> > not necessarily the opinion of this server:
> >
> > >Ya know, its funny how Princeton acts as if it's 'better' than the rest
> > of central
> > >New Jersey. Back in the mid '60s, they pushed I-95's route away from
> > them,
> > >starting a huge amount of anti-I-95 sentiment that resulted in the
> > cancellation
> > >of the road (which is still, in my opinion, one of the biggest mistakes
> > of

> > >NJDOT history,As long as there is no local access so that the


> Princetonians themselves
> can't use the roads, i'm all for a downtown Princeton NJ 92/I-95
> interchange!
>
> > >

> > >Princeton sux...
> >
> > The previous anti-Princeton rant was courtesy of:
> >
> > Raymond C Martin Jr
> > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/7642/index.html
> >

Hey, we could even throw in State provided counseling, because after all those
Princetonians would have to contend with the fact that people from out of town
would actually be driving through their little town of Princeton. Oh my!

Gene Janczynskyi

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
> > ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca
> > Urinal aren't that clever.
>
> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).
>
(Ft. Myers) The News-Press aka "The Snooze-Press"
--
Gene Janczynskyi
in Cape Coral, FL
ejja...@eagle.fgcu.edu

Gene Janczynskyi.vcf

Michael G. Koerner

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to

The Appleton, WI 'Post-Crescent' often abbeviates itself to the 'PC'.
Yes, they are the 'Politically Correct'.

Oshkosh, WI 'Northwestern'----> To me they are the '(K)now Nothing'.

--
____________________________________________________________________________
Regards,

Michael G. Koerner
Appleton, WI

***NOTICE*** SPAMfilter in use, please remove ALL 'i's from the return
address to reply. ***NOTICE***
____________________________________________________________________________

Garrett Wollman

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
In article <wk4seba0...@uiuc.edu>,

David J. Greenberger <gren...@uiuc.edu> wrote:

>What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
>course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
>Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

Lessee.... There's the Boston Glob.

Before it got Murdoched, there was the Boston Horrid American.

The New York, Washington, and Los Angeles Slimes

The New York or Washington Pest

San Francisco Crocknicle

San Jose Murky News

McPaper

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same
wol...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom
Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick

Vinnie Ferrari

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
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Daniel Salomon <dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:81fokc$9qs$2...@news.fas.harvard.edu...

> I have some other relevant issues with Princeton. They have signs posted
> in the downtown area that say "No Bicycles". It's unclear whether the
> sign refers to riding on the sidewalk (which is OK to ban), or a ban on
> bicycles on the road completely, which is absolutely ridiculous.
>

Is it ridiculous when you enter a limited access highway and there's a sign
that says no pedestrians, bicycles or horses, as is the case in many places.

> Princeton is also full of pedestrians who walk out into traffic without
> looking and yell at drivers that they have the right of way.

Must be an Ivy League thing... Cornell students are the same way

Princeton sux

Vinnie Ferrari

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Nov 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/25/99
to
David J. Greenberger <gren...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:wk4seba0...@uiuc.edu...

> "Vinnie Ferrari" <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> writes:
>
> > ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca
> > Urinal aren't that clever.
>
> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).
> --
> David J. Greenberger
> Department of Computer Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Here's a few:

Elmira Star-Regrette (Star-Gazette)
Corning Misleader (Leader)
Rochester Demogogue and Comical (Democrat and Chronicle)- a personal Fave
Buffalo Snooze (News) too obvious
Cortland Slander (Standard)

any others?

Alan Hamilton

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
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Arizona Repulsive (Republic)
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@primenet.com

Arizona Roads -- http://www.primenet.com/~alanh/road/
No ads, popups or watermarks ever

SP Cook

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
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> David J. Greenberger <gren...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >What other newspaper nicknames are out there?

West Virginia:

Charleston Gazette (Gag-zette) [one of America's truly bad newspapers, BTW]
Huntington Herald-Dispatch (Herald-Disgrace)
Morgantown Dominion-Post (Demented Posts)
MU Parthanon (Part of Nothing)

SP Cook


Michael H. King

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
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> From: "David J. Greenberger" <gren...@uiuc.edu>
> Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> Newsgroups: misc.transport.road
> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 04:40:59 GMT
> Subject: Newspaper nicknames (was Re: Princeton's attitude problem)


>
> "Vinnie Ferrari" <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> writes:
>
>> ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca
>> Urinal aren't that clever.
>
> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).


The Atlanta Urinal & Constipation (Journal-Constitution)


bigtv...@hotmail.com

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
to

> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is,
of
> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).
> --
> David J. Greenberger

The Kalamazoo (MI) Gas Jet (Gazette), and for the little town of
Coldwater, MI, there is the Daily Departed (Daily Reporter), so called
because everyone gets it to read the obituaries.

I have a cousin in Jeffersonville, IN, who refers to the Evening News
as the Evening Snooze.

--
Tom Ketchum
Bronson, MI


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

pauline groleau dumas

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
to

famartin a écrit dans le message
<383A3C01...@email.eden.rutgers.edu>...

>The following public service announcement is an anti-Princeton rant, and
not necessarily the opinion of this server:
>
>>Ya Or, they could build I-95 directly through the center of town, and

>extend NJ 92 west and have it link with I-95 in the center of Princeton in
one, massive interchange... (that would also, hopefully, swallow up all the
NIMBY's property...)

Heheheh
let's keep l-95 on NJ Tpk, they desserved a lesson. What does Priceton
wants, they wanna be a Breezewood between Philly and NYC or what?
>>
>>Princeton sux...

I'll never move there don't worry I prefers my hometown.


>
>The previous anti-Princeton rant was courtesy of:
>
>Raymond C Martin Jr
>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Boulevard/7642/index.html

Stéphane Dumas steph...@videotron.ca

Chip Olson

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
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> What other newspaper nicknames are out there?

Somebody already noted the Boston Glob. Here's a few from my
UMass/Amherst days:

Duly Hamstrung Gazelle = Daily Hampshire Gazette, the Springfield MA
daily.
Collision/Collusion/etc. = UMass Daily Collegian, the student rag.
Barely Adequate = [Pioneer] Valley Advocate, the local arts weekly.

--
-Chip Olson. | ceo at shore dot net

Patrick L. Humphrey

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Nov 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/26/99
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Chip Olson <ceo....@spam.me.shore.net> writes:

>> What other newspaper nicknames are out there?

Rice University (where I work) has the Thresher, but a group of students put
out an annual parody of it every April 1st -- the Trasher.

Meanwhile, when I was in college at that _other_ school in town, there wasn't
a whole lot of consensus on what to call the campus paper, but pretty
unanimous sentiment on Houston's two major daily papers: the Pest (Post,
which folded in 1995) and the still-extant Comical (Chronicle, which is better
served with the nickname, ever since it was assimilated into the Hearst
empire).

--PLH, long-time former Houston Post subscriber, if you couldn't tell :)

David Jensen

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Nov 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/27/99
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On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:29:47 -0600, in misc.transport.road
Jason Hancock <jha...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote in
<383CC9...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>:

>David J. Greenberger wrote:
>>
>> What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
>> course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
>> Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).
>

>Iowa City Press-Citizen: substitute the "c" in "Citizen" with "sh" and
>you'll get it...
>
>--Jason
>---------------------------------
><http://members.xoom.com/jhancoc>
>Home of the Iowa Highways Page & Freeway Junctions of the Heartland
>---------------------------------
>Spammers win a one-way trip to the TRASH CAN!


They've shortened their name since I was a kid but the wittiest name
I've heard was the Fond du Lac Common Filth Repeater (they dropped
Commonwealth a couple of decades back so it's now just the Reporter)
courtesy of my Jr. High Band teacher.

______________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. - David Hume

fama...@my-deja.com

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Nov 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/28/99
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In article <k8B%3.803$ih1....@weber.videotron.net>,

"pauline groleau dumas" <steph...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> famartin a écrit dans le message

/ \
/ | \
|
Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)

Mark Sinsabaugh

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Nov 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/28/99
to
<<ROFLMAO!!! Great headline... unfortunately, the writers at the Ithaca
Urinal aren't that clever. >>

Good one!

<<What other newspaper nicknames are out there?>>

Elmira: Star Regret (Star Gazette)
Corning: Misleader (Leader)

Mark Sinsabaugh
My websites will return soon!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Me: Well, if your success in this game is any indication,
Merv better be prepared to take out a 2nd mortgage.

Eddie Timanus: That's what I'm hoping for...today Merv, tomorrow Ben
Stein.

- From Net Caesar's Challenge (7/27/99)


Daniel Salomon

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Nov 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/28/99
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Vinnie Ferrari <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> wrote:
: Daniel Salomon <dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
:> I have some other relevant issues with Princeton. They have signs posted

:> in the downtown area that say "No Bicycles". It's unclear whether the
:> sign refers to riding on the sidewalk (which is OK to ban), or a ban on
:> bicycles on the road completely, which is absolutely ridiculous.

: Is it ridiculous when you enter a limited access highway and there's a sign
: that says no pedestrians, bicycles or horses, as is the case in many places.

No, because there is an actual danger involved in having bicycles and
pedestrians on such high-speed roads. I've asked this question here
before without getting an answer, but I'll try again: Do horses still have
the right to use all public roadways that aren't marked with "No horses"
signs?

Bicycles should be encouraged in downtown areas, such as Princeton. There
are plenty of nearby residential areas with quiet streets leading to the
center of town, whch is an ideal setup for bicycles.

-Dan

fama...@my-deja.com

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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In article <81rt89$3e7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

fama...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <k8B%3.803$ih1....@weber.videotron.net>,
> "pauline groleau dumas" <steph...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> > famartin a écrit dans le message
>
> / \
> / | \
> |
> Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)

Speaking of France, do they have a nationwide expressway system there?
(such as the Interstates(United States), Motorways(Great Britain), or
Autobahns(Germany), etc) If so, what's it called?

Jon Morse

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
>What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
>course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
>Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

The Fort Worth Startlegram (Star-Telegram)
The Dallas Crimes-Herald (Times-Herald; nickname made semi-famous, if not
coined, by Joe-Bob Briggs, a.k.a. former Times-Herald movie critic John Bloom)
The Dallas Boring Snooze (Morning News)
The Fairfax Gerbil (Journal, because it's such a cute little paper...)

Jon Morse
Herndon, VA
via lots of much larger places

Brandon M. Gorte

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
bigtv...@hotmail.com wrote:

: > What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is,


: of
: > course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
: > Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

: > --
: > David J. Greenberger

: The Kalamazoo (MI) Gas Jet (Gazette), and for the little town of
: Coldwater, MI, there is the Daily Departed (Daily Reporter), so called
: because everyone gets it to read the obituaries.

: I have a cousin in Jeffersonville, IN, who refers to the Evening News
: as the Evening Snooze.

Up here we have the Marquette Whining Urinal (Mining Journal), the Daily
Whining Gizzette (Mining Gazette), and the Michigan Tech Load of Sh*t
(Michigan Tech Lode).

Brandon Gorte
Undergrad in Geological Engineering
Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI
<http://www.geo.mtu.edu/~bmgorte/freeway.html>


Ron Newman

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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In article <81jo4v$6v6$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>, wol...@lcs.mit.edu
(Garrett Wollman) wrote:

> San Francisco Crocknicle

I've heard "San Francisco Comical", especially for the Sunday edition.

--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/

Jeff Kitsko

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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>Speaking of France, do they have a nationwide expressway system there?
>(such as the Interstates(United States), Motorways(Great Britain), or
>Autobahns(Germany), etc) If so, what's it called?

There they are called Autoroutes, just as they are in Quebec. They are all
toll, except around Paris.

Jeff Kitsko
Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html

H.B. Elkins

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
"David J. Greenberger" <gren...@uiuc.edu> wrote:

>What other newspaper nicknames are out there? The Ithaca Urinal is, of
>course, the Ithaca Journal. Champaign has the Daily Idiot or Daily
>Illiterate (Daily Illini) and the News-Gazoo (News-Gazette).

Rush Limbaugh has a name for the Atlanta paper. Doesn't he call it the
"Urinal & Constipation?"

Myself, I call the Courier-Journal the "Curious Urinal" and I also
call the Lexington Herald-Leader, variable, the "Herald-Misleader,"
"Geraldo-Misleader," or "Herald-Liberal."

I used to work at a weekly paper called The Beattyville Enterprise. We
called it "The Surprise" because we were surprised if there was ever
any news in it! ;-)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++
H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net
http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins
"Morality is not defined by individual choice." -- Rush H. Limbaugh III
Earnhardt, D. Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but Gordon, Anybody but North Carolina
To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Michael G. Koerner

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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fama...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> In article <81rt89$3e7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> fama...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <k8B%3.803$ih1....@weber.videotron.net>,
> > "pauline groleau dumas" <steph...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > famartin a écrit dans le message
> >
> > / \
> > / | \
> > |
> > Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)
>
> Speaking of France, do they have a nationwide expressway system there?
> (such as the Interstates(United States), Motorways(Great Britain), or
> Autobahns(Germany), etc) If so, what's it called?

I am not sure what it is called, but France does have an extensive (and
fast growing) system of motorways. Most of the routes of the system are
leased to private contractors and operated as 'ticket' tollways.

Exile on Market Street

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Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
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In article <81jo4v$6v6$1...@grapevine.lcs.mit.edu>, wol...@lcs.mit.edu
(Garrett Wollman) wrote:

> Lessee.... There's the Boston Glob.

Yep. I remember that one. "The Glob's here!"



> Before it got Murdoched, there was the Boston Horrid American.

And before that, there was the nickname for one of its two predecessors,
the "Wretched-American" (_Record-American_, a Hearst paper as was the
combined publication. Did the _Herald-Traveler_ have a nickname?)



> The New York or Washington Pest

Somebody has put out a parody called _The Washington Toast_ recently.
Judging from its appearance and size (tabloid), this wasn't a well-financed
effort along the lines of _Not the New York Times_ and the _Off the Wall
Street Journal_.

> San Francisco Crocknicle

I thought they called it the "Comical."

I also STR a rather blistering letter Garrison Keillor wrote to the _St.
Paul Dispatch and Pioneer Press_ (a short-lived moniker following the PM
paper's demise; it's now simply the _Pioneer Press_ again) before leaving
the Twin Cities in which he complained about the paper's reporting on his
doings and called it the "St. Paul Gas and Minor Distress."

I understand all has since been forgiven, and he's back in St. Paul, albeit
perhaps a bit humbler.

--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Associate Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/

'ome is where you 'ang your @.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

pauline groleau dumas

unread,
Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
> famartin a écrit dans le message
> / \
>/ | \
> |
>Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)

yup I'm French-Canadian, I leave in Québec, who have the baddest roads shape
even worst than AK or PA and the higher fuel gas prices

Stéphane Dumas steph...@videotron.ca

Gene Janczynskyi

unread,
Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
> > famartin a écrit dans le message
> > / \
> >/ | \
> > |
> >Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)
>
> yup I'm French-Canadian, I leave in Québec, who have the baddest roads
shape
> even worst than AK or PA and the higher fuel gas prices
>
Hate to do this to you, but I did not know that Alaska (AK) was in the
survey. I know, I know, I also always get those two mixed up. :-)
--
Happy Holidays!
Gene Janczynskyi.vcf

Mike McManus

unread,
Nov 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/29/99
to
Vinnie Ferrari wrote:

> Here's a few:
>
> Elmira Star-Regrette (Star-Gazette)
> Corning Misleader (Leader)
> Rochester Demogogue and Comical (Democrat and Chronicle)- a personal
> Fave

Known locally as the D&C, which I find myself referring to as "the
newspaper, not the medical procedure". ;-)

> Buffalo Snooze (News) too obvious
> Cortland Slander (Standard)
>
> any others?

The Ohio State University Latrine (Lantern)
Toronto Mop and Pail (Globe and Mail)

--
Mike McManus <mmcm...@frontiernet.net> Rochester, NY

"I want you to have zero tolerance for intolerance."
-- Archbishop Desmond Tutu, in a television ad for the
Alliance For Full Acceptance, in SC <http://www.affa-sc.org/>

Bradley Torr

unread,
Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
to

Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in article
<19991129115832...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...

> There they are called Autoroutes, just as they are in Quebec. They are
all
> toll, except around Paris.

And what's more, tolled like a king's ransom! I mean, $25 to get from Paris
to Lille? get real! I have family friends in England that went for a
Continental driving holiday, and ended up spending $250 on tolls in one
week driving around France! Why they didn't take the N-roads (surface
roads) after the first time they were hit for a toll, I dunno...

Regards,
Bradley.


Jim Guthrie

unread,
Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
to

Gene Janczynskyi wrote in message <81v9ig$t17$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>...

One other common error on the Internet is that .ca in a mail or web page
address is Canada, not California. i.e.: http://www.gov.edmonton.ab.ca which
is our home page.

Yuri Dieujuste

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Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
to

<fama...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:81tagm$1b2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <81rt89$3e7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> fama...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <k8B%3.803$ih1....@weber.videotron.net>,
> > "pauline groleau dumas" <steph...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > famartin a écrit dans le message
> >
> > / \
> > / | \
> > |
> > Hey, isn't that FRENCH??? (well, I guess its French CANADIAN...) :)
>
> Speaking of France, do they have a nationwide expressway system there?
> (such as the Interstates(United States), Motorways(Great Britain), or
> Autobahns(Germany), etc) If so, what's it called?

The French Expressway/Tollway system is called the Autoroutes (autoroute à
peage [tolled] or autoroute sans peage [without toll]) . All of the
Autoroutes are built to European standards. The tolled autoroutes are owned
by private corporations which are be regulated by the French government.

I have a map of French Autoroutes, and it appears that the French have not
built as much as their German and Belgian neighbours, but one must remember
that France is very dependent on its rail system (SNCF is considered to be
the best in the world, I'll check if this is true in Spring), and that
France is larger, and has less people than Germany which has the largest
limited-access roadway system.

One thing I don't understand is why Charles de Gaulle did not build a system
of Autoroutes under his remilitarisation plan during the 1960s. I thought
that the German Autobahns and US Interstate Highway System were built under
some military improvement plans.

There is an website that has details of the management in the A-routes
somewhere in the http://roadlinks.cjb.net. I have not found any roadgeek run
sites about the French A-routes, but I may try searching again soon.

I'll be in France this spring, so I'll try to catch pictures of the French
A-route system.

--
================================================
Yuri Dieujuste =) ;-) Valley Stream, New Netherlands
PlayStation Network http://caratworld.com/psnetwork
"I am Homer of Borg, Prepare to be assim... Hmmmmm, Donut! "
================================================

Vinnie Ferrari

unread,
Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
to
"Daniel Salomon" <dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:81se62$lju$5...@news.fas.harvard.edu...

> Vinnie Ferrari <vinnie...@unforgettable.com> wrote:
> : Daniel Salomon <dsal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> :> I have some other relevant issues with Princeton. They have signs
posted
> :> in the downtown area that say "No Bicycles". It's unclear whether the
> :> sign refers to riding on the sidewalk (which is OK to ban), or a ban on
> :> bicycles on the road completely, which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> : Is it ridiculous when you enter a limited access highway and there's a
sign
> : that says no pedestrians, bicycles or horses, as is the case in many
places.
>
> No, because there is an actual danger involved in having bicycles and
> pedestrians on such high-speed roads. I've asked this question here
> before without getting an answer, but I'll try again: Do horses still have
> the right to use all public roadways that aren't marked with "No horses"
> signs?
>

They sure do... in Yates County, NY and some other rural areas, it's
actually COMMONPLACE to see horse-and-buggys on the road... It throws you
for a loop the first time your tooling along 14A and you pass a
horse-and-buggy with Amish people inside... then a little further up, you
pass some Amish teenagers, fully dressed up, on their bicycles. A word of
caution, though... do not honk your horn as you go by- it spooks the
horses... and if you plan on stopping at the supermarket in Dundee... make
sure your boots are on before you step out of the car.
--
Happy Motoring

Vinnie
--------------------------
Visit Vinnie's home on the web:
www.geocities.com/vinnieferrari/


Mike McManus

unread,
Nov 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM11/30/99
to
Jim Guthrie wrote:
>
> Gene Janczynskyi wrote in message <81v9ig$t17$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>...
>
> One other common error on the Internet is that .ca in a mail or web
> page address is Canada, not California.

...unless it is immediately followed by .us, as in well.sf.ca.us (if
I recall correctly, an early domain name for the WELL in San
Francisco before most "independent" US sites went to the
three-letter domains such as .org and .com).

Nowadays it seems most .us sites belong to institutions such as
libraries, schools (.k12.ny.us for example) and local governments,
per the rules that ISI has made for new names in the .us domain.

It would be amusing if ISI bent the rules a little and allowed
people to register names in the "state" of "r" (thus having ".r.us"
at the end), but a certain toy store would have a fit about that...
;-)

Chris Lawrence

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
On 30 Nov 1999 20:06:51 EST, Yuri Dieujuste <tur...@concentric.net> wrote:
>One thing I don't understand is why Charles de Gaulle did not build a system
>of Autoroutes under his remilitarisation plan during the 1960s. I thought
>that the German Autobahns and US Interstate Highway System were built under
>some military improvement plans.

Well, the German Autobahns were created during the 1930s; I'm not sure
if they had an explicit military purpose, but I seem to recall they
were used for propoganda purposes ("Look at our great highways
compared to the French and British dirt roads!"). America's
interstates had an explicit military purpose (National Interstate
Defense Highway System or some such).

And, somewhat off-topic, the British motorways were built because no
British road had been built in a straight line since the Romans left,
and because of that (and the high number of towns and villages along
existing roads) it took eons to get anywhere... France, by contrast,
at least had a decent highway system prior to the autoroutes (Michelin
maps of France that were used by the Allies in 1944 are surprisingly
similar to the 1999 variety... even the route numbering is virtually
identical).

I'm not sure why France was a late bloomer; IIRC there was no motorway
between Paris and Marseilles until the late 1980s. Of course, even to
this day there is no limited access road between London and Glasgow
(it's all 4-lane or better, but A74 in Scotland isn't limited access).

But I digress...


Chris
--
=============================================================================
| Chris Lawrence | Get Debian GNU/Linux CDROMs |
| <qua...@watervalley.net> | http://www.lordsutch.com/cds/ |
| | |
| Debian Developer | Visit the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5: |
| http://www.debian.org/ | <*> http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/ <*> |
=============================================================================

Bradley Torr

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to

Chris Lawrence <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in article
<%o%04.43792$oa2.3...@iad-read.news.verio.net>...

> And, somewhat off-topic, the British motorways were built because no
> British road had been built in a straight line since the Romans left,
> and because of that (and the high number of towns and villages along
> existing roads) it took eons to get anywhere...

That's why everyone used rail in Britain to get from A to B.. even now,
it's fairly popular, even if the railways are in a state of utter shambles.

> I'm not sure why France was a late bloomer; IIRC there was no motorway
> between Paris and Marseilles until the late 1980s. Of course, even to
> this day there is no limited access road between London and Glasgow
> (it's all 4-lane or better, but A74 in Scotland isn't limited access).

the M1 and M6 provide full motorway standard from London to just past
Carlisle. Then you have 6 miles of dual carriageway A-road, the A74.. then
the A74 becomes motorway standard all the way to Glaslow as the A74(M).
It's a situation similar to what occurs in NJ on I-95, but I believe
without the traffic snarls.... the 6 miles of A74 still has interchanges
and partially controlled access; building a motorway would save about 2
minutes off your average journey, if that. :-)

Regards,
Bradley.

Chris Lawrence

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
On 1 Dec 1999 03:04:41 GMT, Bradley Torr <bt...@bigpond.nospam.com> wrote:
>the M1 and M6 provide full motorway standard from London to just past
>Carlisle. Then you have 6 miles of dual carriageway A-road, the A74.. then
>the A74 becomes motorway standard all the way to Glaslow as the A74(M).
>It's a situation similar to what occurs in NJ on I-95, but I believe
>without the traffic snarls.... the 6 miles of A74 still has interchanges
>and partially controlled access; building a motorway would save about 2
>minutes off your average journey, if that. :-)

Nice to see (hear?) that it's been upgraded; way back when (1990, I
think was the last time I was through there) it was a good thirty
miles of uncontrolled access. By then they'd repaired the section
that got nailed by Pan Am 103, at least, but there was still
cross-traffic.

(Will the M6 number be assigned all the way to Glasgow when/if it's
done? I know the A6 ends at Carlisle...)


Chris
--
=============================================================================
| Chris Lawrence | Visit my home page! |
| <qua...@watervalley.net> | http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/ |
| | |
| Grad Student, Pol. Sci. | Visit the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5: |
| University of Mississippi | <*> http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/ <*> |
=============================================================================

Bradley Torr

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to

Chris Lawrence <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in article
<2G114.43920$oa2.3...@iad-read.news.verio.net>...


> Nice to see (hear?) that it's been upgraded; way back when (1990, I
> think was the last time I was through there) it was a good thirty
> miles of uncontrolled access. By then they'd repaired the section
> that got nailed by Pan Am 103, at least, but there was still
> cross-traffic.

I didn't know the A74 was damaged at Lockerbie. Any details on how much it
was damaged?

> (Will the M6 number be assigned all the way to Glasgow when/if it's
> done? I know the A6 ends at Carlisle...)

That would be the most logical step... or just let it change over from M6
to M74 at the Scottish border or at Carlisle or at Gretna Green..... after
all, when it passes Carlisle, it crosses 'zones' from Zone 6 to Zone 7...
but motorways don't tend to be as pedantic as keeping their numbers as
logical and well-defined as the motorways (I mean, look at M5.... it starts
in Zone 3, traverses Zone 4 and ends in Zone 5.....)

Regards,
Bradley.


Chris Lawrence

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
On 1 Dec 1999 10:46:06 GMT, Bradley Torr <bt...@bigpond.nospam.com> wrote:
>I didn't know the A74 was damaged at Lockerbie. Any details on how much it
>was damaged?

I believe part of the southbound carriageway was damaged, though not
severely. Of course, the major damage from the crash was just east of
the highway (where several homes were obliterated).


Chris
--
=============================================================================


| Chris Lawrence | Get Debian GNU/Linux CDROMs |
| <qua...@watervalley.net> | http://www.lordsutch.com/cds/ |
| | |

Dennis McClendon

unread,
Dec 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/1/99
to
Chris Lawrence wrote:
> America's
> interstates had an explicit military purpose (National Interstate
> Defense Highway System or some such).

I wish people would quit passing this myth around.

The words "and Defense" weren't added to the 1956 bill until they were
put in as an afterthought in conference committee (after both House and
Senate had passed bills). During hearings, various military men had
testified that national defense didn't have any special needs different
from the rest of highway users.

It is doubtless true that Eisenhower's experience with the post-World
War I cross-country convoy and his inspection of the autobahnen may have
given him some personal interest in a national network of high-speed
highways, but the idea was first developed by FDR and explored for two
decades in popular magazine articles and exhibits such as Futurama at
the 1939 World's Fair.

Chris Lawrence

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 23:12:24 +0000, Dennis McClendon <dmccl...@21stcentury.net> wrote:
>Chris Lawrence wrote:
>> America's
>> interstates had an explicit military purpose (National Interstate
>> Defense Highway System or some such).
>
>I wish people would quit passing this myth around.
>
>The words "and Defense" weren't added to the 1956 bill until they were
>put in as an afterthought in conference committee (after both House and
>Senate had passed bills). During hearings, various military men had
>testified that national defense didn't have any special needs different
>from the rest of highway users.

Of course, the military did (and does) have somewhat different needs
from the civilian population, since many military installations are
located away from major civilian population centers.

Anyway, the term explicit refers to the terminology (even if used
dishonestly or disingenuously); it was certainly justified in terms of
national and civil defense, much like the Internet was. Doubtless
another intent was to provide good highways for every state in a nice,
pork-barrel fashion; a third intent may have been the propoganda
factor, much like Germany's autobahnen were used as a propoganda tool
(though they also came in really handy for the blitzkrieg).


Chris
--
=============================================================================
| Chris Lawrence | You have a computer. Do you have Linux? |
| <qua...@watervalley.net> | http://www.linux-m68k.org/index.html |
| | |
| Open Directory Editor | Join the party that opposed the CDA |
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ze...@magicnet.net

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
Then why exactly are the markers shaped like shields?

----------
In article <3845AB...@21stcentury.net>, Dennis McClendon
<dmccl...@21stcentury.net> wrote:


> Chris Lawrence wrote:
>> America's
>> interstates had an explicit military purpose (National Interstate
>> Defense Highway System or some such).
>
> I wish people would quit passing this myth around.
>
> The words "and Defense" weren't added to the 1956 bill until they were
> put in as an afterthought in conference committee (after both House and
> Senate had passed bills). During hearings, various military men had
> testified that national defense didn't have any special needs different
> from the rest of highway users.
>

ad...@interlog.com

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
ze...@magicnet.net wrote:

> Then why exactly are the markers shaped like shields?

It may just be a natural association; shield/crest = hiway marker. The US
Highway markers are a different kind of shield, remember...


Mike Dahmus

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
On 1 Dec 1999 03:04:41 GMT, "Bradley Torr" <bt...@bigpond.nospam.com> hired an

infinite number of monkeys to write:

>
>Chris Lawrence <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in article

><%o%04.43792$oa2.3...@iad-read.news.verio.net>...
>
>> And, somewhat off-topic, the British motorways were built because no
>> British road had been built in a straight line since the Romans left,
>> and because of that (and the high number of towns and villages along
>> existing roads) it took eons to get anywhere...
>
>That's why everyone used rail in Britain to get from A to B.. even now,
>it's fairly popular, even if the railways are in a state of utter shambles.

That's far from the only reason rail gets lots of use. I took the rail from
Winchester to London the last time I was there, and it was faster than driving
even though there's a motorway (freeway) which goes directly to London. (In
fact, I used that road to get from Heathrow to Winchester when I arrived).

It's fast, reliable, and relatively cheap. If we made gasoline taxes higher as
even a closer approximation to the true cost of driving, rail would be a lot
more competitive in the U.S. as well.

Mike Dahmus mdahmus at I O DOT COM
http://www.io.com/~mdahmus/
"No one likes a pedantic smartarse..."

Lisa or Jeff

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
> The words "and Defense" weren't added to the 1956 bill until they were
> put in as an afterthought in conference committee (after both House and
> Senate had passed bills). During hearings, various military men had
> testified that national defense didn't have any special needs different
> from the rest of highway users.

What was the reason the word "defense" was added?

>
> It is doubtless true that Eisenhower's experience with the post-World
> War I cross-country convoy and his inspection of the autobahnen may have
> given him some personal interest in a national network of high-speed
> highways, but the idea was first developed by FDR and explored for two
> decades in popular magazine articles and exhibits such as Futurama at
> the 1939 World's Fair.


The story I always read everywhere about the Interstate system was
that Eisenhower was impressed by the German autobahns and wanted
the same capability in this country.

The experience of the cross country convoy can't be minimized. They
attempted a big field manuever, and let's just say it was an excellent
learning experience as to demonstrating a lot of problems had to be
solved before the military was up to speed. Getting around was a big
problem. (I read someplace, wish I knew if it was true, that Patton
was so passionate about his tanks that he paid for gasoline out of his
own pocket to keep his column moving foward.

Rob Dubnicka

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
Mike Dahmus wrote:

> I took the rail from
> Winchester to London the last time I was there, and it was faster than driving
> even though there's a motorway (freeway) which goes directly to London. (In
> fact, I used that road to get from Heathrow to Winchester when I arrived).
>
> It's fast, reliable, and relatively cheap. If we made gasoline taxes higher as
> even a closer approximation to the true cost of driving, rail would be a lot
> more competitive in the U.S. as well.

Any idea if raising the gas tax to a "closer approximation to the true cost of
driving" would have positive or negative impacts on other segments of the
economy? After all, the prices of your daily paper, your food, your mail, would
have to absorb the costs of an increased gas tax (much like the higher fuel costs
in the 70's contributed to inflation - only this time the money wouldn't be going
to oil companies and oil producing nations, just to the government).

How suddenly should the gas tax be raised?

Should the theoretical increased revenue from higher gas taxes be used to help
offset the "true cost of driving", or should it be diverted to pay other costs?
Is that where the money to make rail "a lot more competitive" will come from?

You have obviously thought this through much more than I have. I'm curious to
read your answers.


Cuideigian

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Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to

Rob Dubnicka <dubn...@richmond.infi.net> wrote in message
news:3846C5FB...@richmond.infi.net...

Hopefully, the rise in gas taxes would be offset by reductions in the taxes
that are currently being used to fund autos/roads.

Michael D. Adams

unread,
Dec 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/2/99
to
On 2 Dec 1999 17:48:18 GMT, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff)
wrote:

>What was the reason the word "defense" was added?

This could be urban legend, but I've heard that "and defense" was
added to give Congress clear Constitutional authority for such a large
undertaking.

I'm betting that it really was a combination of things -- a little bit
of Constitutional base-covering, a ploy to get additional public
support and/or quash any early NIMBYism, etc.

Consider the society of the time -- very patriotic, very caught up in
the red scare. If a thing was necessary for national defense, it must
have been a good thing, yes?

___
<*,*> Michael D. Adams, ACAS / mda at triskele.com
[`-'] W Hartford, CT (41d46m N, 72d44m W)
-"-"- Highway Heaven: http://www.triskele.com/highways

Exile on Market Street

unread,
Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
to
In article <rlde4s0lk67u4g099...@4ax.com>,
m...@removethis.triskele.com wrote:

> On 2 Dec 1999 17:48:18 GMT, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff)
> wrote:
>
> >What was the reason the word "defense" was added?
>
> This could be urban legend, but I've heard that "and defense" was
> added to give Congress clear Constitutional authority for such a large
> undertaking.

I don't think that was necessary.

The Constitution already gave Congress the power to erect "post roads," and
these highways clearly fall under that category.

--
Sandy Smith, University Relations / 215.898.1423 / smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Associate Editor, _Pennsylvania Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team -- Web Editor webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/

"...the Mozart of Usenet Dilettantes..."
--ad...@interlog.com, in the "Zoning..." thread on a.p.u, m.t.u-t
----------------------------------------------and m.t.r, referring to me--

Tobias Brox

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
to
Rob Dubnicka <dubn...@richmond.infi.net> writes:

> (much like the higher fuel costs
> in the 70's contributed to inflation - only this time the money wouldn't be going
> to oil companies and oil producing nations, just to the government).

More money to the government should result in reduced inflation,
according to economical theories.

--
TobiX In a world without fences, who needs gates?
http://www.td.org.uit.no/~tobias/

Mike Dahmus

unread,
Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
to
On 03 Dec 1999 19:47:18 +0100, Tobias Brox <tob...@spurv.td.org.uit.no> hired

an infinite number of monkeys to write:

>Rob Dubnicka <dubn...@richmond.infi.net> writes:
>
>> (much like the higher fuel costs
>> in the 70's contributed to inflation - only this time the money wouldn't be going
>> to oil companies and oil producing nations, just to the government).
>
>More money to the government should result in reduced inflation,
>according to economical theories.

Higher gas taxes or other vehicle taxes, over a prolonged period of time, will
affect consumer choice as it relates to transportation modes and efficiency,
as it obviously has in Europe and even to a lesser extent places like
California. The oil shock was perceived at the time (correctly, it turns out)
as a short-term phenomenon, thus no behavior modification of any significance
occurred beyond the short-term increase in carpooling.

In the short-term, any rapid increase in gas taxes would result in increased
inflation, in my estimation, because the existing system of road subsides has
led to a market which is artificially overdependent on oil. This is why any
shift to a system which more adequately reflects the costs of individual
choices should be gradual, but is absolutely _not_ a good reason _not_ to make
the change.

Cuideigian

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Dec 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/3/99
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Mike Dahmus <mdahNO_%_SPAMmus@iNO_%_SPAMo.com> wrote in message
news:GyVIOMV6l25Ssx...@4ax.com...

The unfortunate part about the gas shock of the seventies is that people
will be reluctant to accept it when the real shock comes along.


Al Tossoonian

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99
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AFAIK, the New Jersey 500-series system had its start in the early 1950s as
a "Civil Defense" system. I guess that included weather-related problems
as I heard a former governor refer to the "500 routes" on the radio many
years ago after a storm.

Regards,
Al

Frank Curcio

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99