Cleveland Road Trip II

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Dennis S. Gulyas

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Sep 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/1/99
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Yesterday, Marc Fannin and I spent (way to long :-) the day driving around
Northeast Ohio.
Together we traveled through Lake, Cuyahoga, Summit, Portage, and Geauga
Cos.
We traveled I-90 to Deadman's curve. Went to downtown Cleveland and took
sign assembly pics around Public Square (What happened to the US 21 signs
that used to be there?).
Took several pictures of the Evil Kanevil ramp that is the Superior Viaduct
(or to be more exact, was)
Drove around (several times) the mess that is the I-71/I-480/Oh 237
Cleveland Hopkins Airport interchange.
Drove over to I-77/I-480/OH 21/OH 17 (though the state routes have no direct
connection to the formentioned I-routes) and traveled down OH 17 to the
Cuyahoga River (man that is one steep hill!) and got a picture of the I-480
viaduct (over the Cuyahoga) and of the ancient cloverleaf at Oh 21 and 17
(looks like the Merritt Parkway meets PennDOT).
From there traveled back up to Cleveland drove back east on Carneige and
Cedar. Got a picture of a old fourway that had (at least) go in the green
lense. No luck on timing on finding out whether it says stop on the red
lense. Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the lenses).
Unfortunetly the paint is starting to fade/weather/peel away and the lenses
are starting to show once more.
Saw no metric signage along Cedar Rd. either.
Didn't someone here once say that Oh 303 had a 17% grade at the Cuyahoga
River? Saw no evidence of that. The forementioned Oh 17 hill at the
Cuyahoga looked alot (!) steeper than this one.
Drove down Oh 8 to Akron and around the Akron beltway (I-76/77, I-76, I-277,
I-77).

Trip lasted 8 hours and 200+ miles and between 90-100 pictures.
Now for Marc's version....
--
SJG
bt...@bright.net - home
"Rocks are my pillow
The Cold ground is my bed
The highway is my home." -- Magic Slim


Paul S. Wolf

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Sep 1, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/1/99
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"Dennis S. Gulyas" wrote:
>
> Yesterday, Marc Fannin and I spent (way to long :-) the day driving
> around Northeast Ohio. Together we traveled through Lake, Cuyahoga,
> Summit, Portage, and Geauga Cos. We traveled I-90 to Deadman's curve.
> Went to downtown Cleveland and took sign assembly pics around Public
> Square (What happened to the US 21 signs that used to be there?).

Since US-21 was decommissioned, and OH 21 ends at I-77 just north of
I-480, the city finally took them down.

> Took several pictures of the Evil Kanevil ramp that is the Superior
> Viaduct (or to be more exact, was)

Then you saw the garage where I park the county vehicle I use for work
(in the area between the approach to the Viaduct and the Veteran's
memorial Bridge.

> Drove around (several times) the mess that is the I-71/I-480/Oh 237
> Cleveland Hopkins Airport interchange.

> Drove over to I-77/I-480/OH 21/OH 17 (though the state routes have no
> direct connection to the formentioned I-routes)

OH-17 doesn't, but OH-21 does. It STARTS/ENDS as a ramp to/from I-77.

> and traveled down OH 17 to the Cuyahoga River (man that is one steep
> hill!) and got a picture of the I-480 viaduct (over the Cuyahoga) and
> of the ancient cloverleaf at Oh 21 and 17 (looks like the Merritt
> Parkway meets PennDOT).

The OH -17 hill was the site of a MAJOR truck accident about 23 years
ago. A Gasoline tanker lost its brakes and crashed into some cars
stopped at the signal at Canal Road, at the foot of the hill, killing a
number of people. Trucks are banned, and there is an OH-17 truck route
posted, but enforcement has been difficult due to different rules by the
two cities involved, and court challenges by truckers.

> From there traveled back up to Cleveland drove back east on Carneige
> and Cedar. Got a picture of a old fourway that had (at least) go in
> the green lense. No luck on timing on finding out whether it says
> stop on the red lense.

I think it does. Should be replaced next year when Cedar is rebuilt
frothru Cleveland Heights.

> Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
> Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the
> lenses). Unfortunetly the paint is starting to fade/weather/peel away
> and the lenses are starting to show once more.

Where was that? The only one I can think of is in front of an abandoned
Zayre's store opposite the race track on SR-8. I've tried to get the
village to remove or bag it.

> Saw no metric signage along Cedar Rd. either.

Why would you expect to?

The only metric signs in CUY Co. I know of are 500 feet (150 m) East and
west of State Road (SR-94) on Brookpark Road (SR-17)

> Didn't someone here once say that Oh 303 had a 17% grade at the
> Cuyahoga River? Saw no evidence of that. The forementioned Oh 17
> hill at the Cuyahoga looked alot (!) steeper than this one.

> Drove down Oh 8 to Akron and around the Akron beltway (I-76/77, I-76,
> I-277, I-77).
>
> Trip lasted 8 hours and 200+ miles and between 90-100 pictures.
> Now for Marc's version....
> --
> SJG
> bt...@bright.net - home
> "Rocks are my pillow
> The Cold ground is my bed
> The highway is my home." -- Magic Slim

--
Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:paul...@cuyctyengineers.org
Traffic Engineer, Cuyahoga County Engineer's Office, Cleveland, Ohio

Dave Schul

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
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"Dennis S. Gulyas" <bt...@bright.net> wrote:

>Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
>Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the lenses).

Why would they do that? Why not just take them down?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Schul Your tax dollars at work
http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~dschul dave-at-roadmaps-dot-org
Lawrence, Kansas Home of the Jayhawks
----------------------------------------------------------------
Note: this was posted from a false address to obstruct
spammers -- Please reply to the address above.

Dennis S. Gulyas

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
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Paul S. Wolf <paul....@alum.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:37CDF471...@alum.wpi.edu...

> "Dennis S. Gulyas" wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday, Marc Fannin and I spent (way to long :-) the day driving
> > around Northeast Ohio. Together we traveled through Lake, Cuyahoga,
> > Summit, Portage, and Geauga Cos. We traveled I-90 to Deadman's curve.
> > Went to downtown Cleveland and took sign assembly pics around Public
> > Square (What happened to the US 21 signs that used to be there?).
>
> Since US-21 was decommissioned, and OH 21 ends at I-77 just north of
> I-480, the city finally took them down.
>
Yes, we know! My theory was, after you found about them from us, you
notified the *proper* authorities to irradicate them. Now you have these
nice black painted squares blighting those nice sign assemblies.

> > Took several pictures of the Evil Kanevil ramp that is the Superior
> > Viaduct (or to be more exact, was)
>
> Then you saw the garage where I park the county vehicle I use for work
> (in the area between the approach to the Viaduct and the Veteran's
> memorial Bridge.

It could be in any of the pics Marc and I took in that area possibly.


> > From there traveled back up to Cleveland drove back east on Carneige
> > and Cedar. Got a picture of a old fourway that had (at least) go in
> > the green lense. No luck on timing on finding out whether it says
> > stop on the red lense.
>
> I think it does. Should be replaced next year when Cedar is rebuilt
> frothru Cleveland Heights.

Uh oh....


>
> > Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
> > Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the

> > lenses). Unfortunetly the paint is starting to fade/weather/peel away
> > and the lenses are starting to show once more.
>
> Where was that? The only one I can think of is in front of an abandoned
> Zayre's store opposite the race track on SR-8. I've tried to get the
> village to remove or bag it.

On Cedar between Green and Lee (? for both). It was in the middle of a slew
of traffic lights due to strip malls on both sides of Cedar Rd. I think
there was another one along Cedar closer to downtown as well.


>
> > Saw no metric signage along Cedar Rd. either.
>
> Why would you expect to?

I could of swore you said there was some on Cedar Rd (I thought at Richmond
Rd. I was wrong about that one).

> The only metric signs in CUY Co. I know of are 500 feet (150 m) East and
> west of State Road (SR-94) on Brookpark Road (SR-17)

Well, now we know.

> > Trip lasted 8 hours and 200+ miles and between 90-100 pictures.

Still waiting for Marc's version....

Marc Fannin

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
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"Paul S. Wolf" <paul....@alum.wpi.edu> wrote:

> "Dennis S. Gulyas" wrote:
>
> > Went to downtown Cleveland and took sign assembly pics around
> > Public Square (What happened to the US 21 signs that used to be
> > there?).
>
> Since US-21 was decommissioned, and OH 21 ends at I-77 just north of
> I-480, the city finally took them down.

"Finally" is right. US 21 had been absent there for more than 25 years
before they took them down. (I'm surprised that the signs were
overlooked during the Bicentennial celebration preparation three years
ago.)

> > Saw no metric signage along Cedar Rd. either.
>
> Why would you expect to?

You had mentioned that one Cuyahoga County intersection had metric
advance signage but left it open as to which one it was. For some
reason Sandor thought it was on Cedar Road.

> The only metric signs in CUY Co. I know of are 500 feet (150 m)
> East and west of State Road (SR-94) on Brookpark Road (SR-17)

Thanks! Didn't go that way.

See my other post in this thread for more comments.


--
Marc Fannin musx...@kent.edu
http://www.personal.kent.edu/~musxf579/home.html
"If '[Weird] Al' didn't exist, we'd have to invent him."
-- Doug Feiger of the Knack


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Marc Fannin

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
to
"Dennis S. Gulyas" <bt...@bright.net> finished his post with:

> Now for Marc's version....

And otherwise wrote:

> Yesterday, Marc Fannin and I spent (way to long :-) the day
> driving around Northeast Ohio.
> Together we traveled through Lake, Cuyahoga, Summit, Portage, and
> Geauga Cos.
> We traveled I-90 to Deadman's curve.

Lots of warning devices there, recorded on film.

> Went to downtown Cleveland and took sign assembly pics around
> Public Square (What happened to the US 21 signs that used to
be there?).

...As late as last December.

> Took several pictures of the Evil Kanevil ramp that is the
> Superior Viaduct (or to be more exact, was)

For those keeping score, this is just north of the Veterans Memorial
Bridge (US 6/20/unsigned 42) and accessible from the intersection where
US 6/20, US 42 and Alt. US 6 converge.

> Drove around (several times) the mess that is the I-71/I-480/Oh 237
> Cleveland Hopkins Airport interchange.
> Drove over to I-77/I-480/OH 21/OH 17 (though the state routes have no

> direct connection to the formentioned I-routes)...

More specifically, there is no access between I-77 and OH 17 or
between I-480 and OH 21, and no direct access to either state highway
from either Interstate when leaving the I-77/480 interchange.

> ...and traveled down OH 17 to the


> Cuyahoga River (man that is one steep hill!) and got a picture of the

> I-480 viaduct (over the Cuyahoga)...

The tall Valley View Bridge; see http://www.cleveland.com/traffic/
for a live picture (it's in the background of the ValleyView image).

> ...and of the ancient cloverleaf at


> Oh 21 and 17 (looks like the Merritt Parkway meets PennDOT).

> From there traveled back up to Cleveland drove back east on Carneige
> and Cedar. Got a picture of a old fourway that had (at least) go in
> the green lense.

@ Coventry Road

> No luck on timing on finding out whether it says stop on the red
> lense.

I don't think it did, since there was an almost identical signal at
South Taylor Road which also had "GO" in the green lens but only a
standard red lens.

> Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
> Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the
> lenses).
> Unfortunetly the paint is starting to fade/weather/peel away and the
> lenses are starting to show once more.

This was a *very* old four-direction light which had been modified a
long time ago. The visors had been removed and the lenses painted over
from the Cedar directions when newer (but now also old) lights were
added. It was at the west end of two strip malls, one on each side of
Cedar, which were just west of a major cross street (don't quote me on
this, but I think the street where the light was was Fenwick Road and
the major cross street was Warrensville Center Road).

> Saw no metric signage along Cedar Rd. either.

See my reply to Paul Wolf in this thread

> Didn't someone here once say that Oh 303 had a 17% grade at the
> Cuyahoga River? Saw no evidence of that.

We only drove the eastern approach, but I've driven on both on previous
road trips and I don't remember anything special about either.

> The forementioned Oh 17 hill at the Cuyahoga looked alot (!)
> steeper than this one.
> Drove down Oh 8 to Akron and around the Akron beltway (I-76/77,
> I-76, I-277, I-77).
>

> Trip lasted 8 hours and 200+ miles and between 90-100 pictures.

...Most of which will be on the Web soon. I'll announce when they're
online.

Paul S. Wolf

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
to
Marc Fannin wrote:

> > From there traveled back up to Cleveland drove back east on Carneige
> > and Cedar. Got a picture of a old fourway that had (at least) go in
> > the green lense.
>
> @ Coventry Road
>
> > No luck on timing on finding out whether it says stop on the red
> > lense.
>
> I don't think it did, since there was an almost identical signal at
> South Taylor Road which also had "GO" in the green lens but only a
> standard red lens.
>

I'll check both tomorrow AM.

> > Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic lights.
> > Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow (including the
> > lenses).
> > Unfortunetly the paint is starting to fade/weather/peel away and the
> > lenses are starting to show once more.
>
> This was a *very* old four-direction light which had been modified a
> long time ago. The visors had been removed and the lenses painted over
> from the Cedar directions when newer (but now also old) lights were
> added. It was at the west end of two strip malls, one on each side of
> Cedar, which were just west of a major cross street (don't quote me on
> this, but I think the street where the light was was Fenwick Road and
> the major cross street was Warrensville Center Road).

OH! THAT one! You got the names right. The strip center is called
Cedar Center, and is one of the oldest in the area.

> Marc Fannin musx...@kent.edu

Paul S. Wolf

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Sep 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/2/99
to
"Dennis S. Gulyas" wrote:

> > Since US-21 was decommissioned, and OH 21 ends at I-77 just north of
> > I-480, the city finally took them down.
> >

> Yes, we know! My theory was, after you found about them from us, you
> notified the *proper* authorities to irradicate them. Now you have
> these nice black painted squares blighting those nice sign assemblies.

Wasn't me.

> > > Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic
> > > lights. Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow
> > > (including the lenses). Unfortunetly the paint is starting to
> > > fade/weather/peel away and the lenses are starting to show once
> > > more.
> >

> > Where was that? The only one I can think of is in front of an
> > abandoned Zayre's store opposite the race track on SR-8. I've
> > tried to get the village to remove or bag it.
>
> On Cedar between Green and Lee (? for both). It was in the middle of a
> slew of traffic lights due to strip malls on both sides of Cedar Rd.
> I think there was another one along Cedar closer to downtown as well.

That's about a block from my house. I know of nothing like that there.
Did you get a picture? I'll look again tomorrow, if I can.

> > The only metric signs in CUY Co. I know of are 500 feet (150 m) East > > and west of State Road (SR-94) on Brookpark Road (SR-17)
>

> Well, now we know.

That was a snealky way to get me to reveal the location :-)

Dennis S. Gulyas

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Sep 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/3/99
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Paul S. Wolf <paul....@alum.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:37CF3F3D...@alum.wpi.edu...

> "Dennis S. Gulyas" wrote:
>
> > > Since US-21 was decommissioned, and OH 21 ends at I-77 just north of
> > > I-480, the city finally took them down.
> > >
> > Yes, we know! My theory was, after you found about them from us, you
> > notified the *proper* authorities to irradicate them. Now you have
> > these nice black painted squares blighting those nice sign assemblies.
>
> Wasn't me.

Wonder why it took 3-5 years for them to notice then? I had always thought
they were put up some sort of retro feel.

> > > > Saw the eastern Cleveland suburbs way of disabaling traffic
> > > > lights. Turn them off and paint every part of them yellow
> > > > (including the lenses). Unfortunetly the paint is starting to
> > > > fade/weather/peel away and the lenses are starting to show once
> > > > more.
> > >
> > > Where was that? The only one I can think of is in front of an
> > > abandoned Zayre's store opposite the race track on SR-8. I've
> > > tried to get the village to remove or bag it.
> >
> > On Cedar between Green and Lee (? for both). It was in the middle of a
> > slew of traffic lights due to strip malls on both sides of Cedar Rd.
> > I think there was another one along Cedar closer to downtown as well.
>
> That's about a block from my house. I know of nothing like that there.
> Did you get a picture? I'll look again tomorrow, if I can.

Do have picture(s) of it, don't know how soon they'll be developed however.
:-( I think Marc's placement of these lights is more accurate than my
placement. Lacking my *Red Book* of Cuyahoga County, I was just guessing
from my Delormes Ohio gazzetter.
BTW, Sounds like you possibly live near several uncles of mine as well.

> > > The only metric signs in CUY Co. I know of are 500 feet (150 m) East >
> and west of State Road (SR-94) on Brookpark Road (SR-17)
> >
> > Well, now we know.
>
> That was a snealky way to get me to reveal the location :-)

Heh, heh, heh. :-) Going to Ohio State has done me some good.


> --
> Paul S. Wolf, PE mailto:paul...@cuyctyengineers.org
> Traffic Engineer, Cuyahoga County Engineer's Office, Cleveland, Ohio

--

RDubnicka

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Sep 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM9/5/99
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"Paul S. Wolf" paul....@alum.wpi.edu wrote:

>The OH -17 hill was the site of a MAJOR truck accident about 23 years
>ago. A Gasoline tanker lost its brakes and crashed into some cars
>stopped at the signal at Canal Road, at the foot of the hill, killing a
>number of people. Trucks are banned, and there is an OH-17 truck route
>posted, but enforcement has been difficult due to different rules by the
>two cities involved, and court challenges by truckers.

Hey, Paul. Thought I'd clarify a few points.

The truck wasn't a gasoline tanker. It was a regular semi carrying rather
innocuous cargo. It guess you could say he lost his brakes, but the
Trasnportation Safety Board found that the truck was only capable of braking a
two or three wheels (I forget, and I left my file with the information I got
from ODOT back at Traff-Pro when I left).

Enforcement has become a challenge because Ohio MUTCD (and, if I remember
right, Ohio Revised Code) requires a traffic study prior to prohibiting truck
traffic. No study was ever done, as Governor Rhodes ordered the DOT to
cooperate with the other communities (Maple Heights, Bedford (or Bedford
Heights) and Independence, I think) to establish an alternate truck route and
prohibit truck traffic on Granger Hill. A swift political response to a huge
tragedy on public roadways.

Of course, about 25 years later, the facts that no formal traffic study was
ever performed requires Judge Stralka to rule that the prohibition was
improperly implemented, and therefore, unenforceable.

There are side issues concerning Garfield Heights' ability to prohibit truck
traffic on a state route within a municipality (I'm no lawyer, but my reading
of Ohio Revised Code indicates they have every right - and there are a couple
of folks at District 12 who agreed, albeit "off-the-record").

That's all I'm allowing myself to say about the matter (well, except that I
performed a study for Garfield Heights and Valley View concerning how to
resolve this "problem") in this forum. I'd be happy to elaborate if you want
to email me.

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