DC Freight Rail Future? at Trip Within The Beltway
dougwi...@yahoo.com
may affect future planning for the adjacent and nearby highways).
http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007/04/dc-area-freight-railroad-future.html
http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007_04_06_wwwtripwithinthebeltway_archive.html
Cheers!
Douglas A. Willinger
http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/
Scott M. Kozel
>
> DC Freight Rail Future? post at Trip Within The Beltway (the project
> may affect future planning for the adjacent and nearby highways).
>
> http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007/04/dc-area-freight-railroad-future.html
> http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007_04_06_wwwtripwithinthebeltway_archive.html
These are interesting proposals, but it appears that Maryland officials
oppose the two proposals for new location routes in Southern Maryland,
and possibly oppose the third proposal as well.
"Md. opposes D.C. rail diversion plan"
_Baltimore Sun_ - URL http://tinyurl.com/2suerf
April 6, 2007
Excerpts:
'An agency charged with overseeing land-use planning in the Washington
region identified yesterday three possible routes to divert freight rail
traffic -- including tankers containing hazardous chemicals -- away from
the center of the nation's capital.'
'A nine-month, $1 million feasibility study by the National Capital
Planning Commission suggested two possible routes through Southern
Maryland to Jessup and another that would run through a tunnel under the
Anacostia section of Washington and into Prince George's County.'
'But Maryland Transportation Secretary John D. Porcari said two of the
proposed routes were "simply unacceptable" and expressed skepticism
about the third.'
....
'The report suggested three routes -- each costing billions of dollars
and involving a new crossing of the Potomac River -- to bypass the
current bridge near the Jefferson Memorial:
• A tunnel running from the Potomac Yard in Alexandria, Va., to the
Anacostia region of Southeast Washington.
• A crossing from Stafford County, Va., to western Charles County,
connecting to an existing railroad in Waldorf.
• A route across the Potomac near the U.S. 301 bridge, passing through
La Plata on its way to Waldorf.'
'Porcari, who was briefed on the report last week, fired off a blunt
letter accusing the Washington planning commission of ignoring the
potential dangers of diverting hazardous cargo through Southern
Maryland.'
....
'But Porcari said yesterday that the report sidestepped the question of
who would pay the costs of a rail bypass, which he said could run as
high as $5.3 billion. He said that as it stands, Maryland would not
contribute any money to the project.'
SMK: See the URL for the rest of the article and a map of the proposed
routes.
The National Capital Planning Commission (NCPC) is a federal government
agency that provides overall planning guidance for federal land and
buildings in the National Capital Region, which includes the District of
Columbia; Prince George's and Montgomery Counties in Maryland; and
Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William Counties in Virginia,
including the cities and towns located within the geographic area
bounded by these counties.
http://www.ncpc.gov/about.html
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
Elliott P
> "dougwill2...@yahoo.com" <dougwill2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > DC Freight Rail Future? post at Trip Within The Beltway (the project
> > may affect future planning for the adjacent and nearby highways).
>
> >http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007_04_06_wwwtripwithint...
>
> These are interesting proposals, but it appears that Maryland officials
> oppose the two proposals for new location routes in Southern Maryland,
> and possibly oppose the third proposal as well.
>
> "Md. opposes D.C. rail diversion plan"
> Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
About the third proposal. That bridge over the Potomac, the Nice
bridge, is incredibly high and steep at that. It climbs to 135 feet in
less than a mile, a feat that freight train would find impossible to
overcome. Thus they'd probably build a big draw bridge, to accommodate
big ships. That could cost many millions right there.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> About the third proposal. That bridge over the Potomac, the Nice
> bridge, is incredibly high and steep at that. It climbs to 135 feet in
> less than a mile, a feat that freight train would find impossible to
> overcome. Thus they'd probably build a big draw bridge, to accommodate
> big ships. That could cost many millions right there.
A 1% grade (probably the maximum desirable for freight trains) would
require 13,500 feet of length to rise 135 feet in elevation. That would
be 2.5 miles of length on each approach. Since the land is 20 to 30
feet above river level near the shoreline, the needed bridge length
would be shortened somewhat, but probably it would be at least 4 miles,
to cross 2.2 miles of river near US-301.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Allen Seth Dunn
> "dougwill2...@yahoo.com" <dougwill2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > DC Freight Rail Future? post at Trip Within The Beltway (the project
> > may affect future planning for the adjacent and nearby highways).
>
> >http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2007_04_06_wwwtripwithint...
>
> These are interesting proposals, but it appears that Maryland officials
> oppose the two proposals for new location routes in Southern Maryland,
> and possibly oppose the third proposal as well.
>
> "Md. opposes D.C. rail diversion plan"
> Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
> Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
In typical Maryland government thinking, unless it strictly benefits
the state of Maryland, they oppose any new crossings of any kind.
Government officials in Maryland need to get their head out of the
sand and look at the bigger scheme before opposing such projects. If
something happens as a result of their whining and delaying, they
should be the ones held responsible. Now that's not to say that they
shouldn't be concerned about the cost of building such a project. But
surely, one of their people in Congress could get some sort of
provision in for the feds to pay for the majority of funding for this,
especially since it is their butts they are trying to protect.
Sir Ray
> In typical Maryland government thinking, unless it strictly benefits
> the state of Maryland, they oppose any new crossings of any kind.
basically DC shoving Hazmat trains into Maryland. This isn't a
'bypass to increase rail efficency' project, it's basically a
'Washington Hazmat Nimby' project.
> If something happens as a result of their whining and delaying, they
> should be the ones held responsible.
Completely the opposite in fact - if Maryland agrees to these Hazmat
reroutings, and somehow an accident does occur <cough>CSX</cough> in
Maryland on the new routing, then they will bear some (most?) legal
responsibility. OTOH, if this potential accident occurs in DC with
the current routing, then though DC lawyers will bluster and whine all
they can to lay blame on Maryland, their legal argument will hold no
water, and Governor O'Malley can go "Ha-ha!" Nelson style.
> surely, one of their people in Congress could get some sort of
> provision in for the feds to pay for the majority of funding for this,
> especially since it is their butts they are trying to protect.
I'm fairly sure Maryland's government is not interested in having it's
representatives fund the rope to hang itself with...
Mike Tantillo
>
That is the way most government agencies think. They are looking out
for their own citizens and could care less about citizens that live
outside its jurisdiction, which, honestly, is what I want my elected
officials to do for me.
The same thing happens in Massachusetts where there is no county govt.
and there are 130-something different local govts. reporting to the
state govt. The same thing happens in the NYC metro area quite
often...sometimes various layers of govt conflict with one another
(where I grew up on Long Island, I had 3 layers of local government to
answer to and pay taxes to....Nassau County, the Town of Oyster Bay,
and the Incorporated Village of Massapequa Park). Why is there no
bridge between Long Island and Connecticut? Why is the power cable
between New Haven and Shoreham so controversial? Because the stuff
only benefits Long Island and has little benefit (but potentially
negative impacts) to Connecticut.
What it ultimately comes down to is which jurisdiction is "more
important" than the other? Of course, every jurisdiction thinks that
they are the most important thing in the world (though it would be
tough to argue that some rural county in a flyover state is as
important to the national economy as say, NYC). In most cases the two
jurisdictions are equal. For example, Prince William County VA and
Charles County MD are both on par with one another, and it wouldn't
really be fair for Prince William to dump its hazmat traffic into
Charles for no good reason. But trying to say the Prince Georges
County MD is as important or more important than Washington DC, our
national capital, is dumb. No due disrespect to the citizens of
Prince Georges, but I'm sorry, you are not the capital of the free
world. It would be one thing if the rail line ran through residential
areas of DC and they were trying to dump the traffic into the suburbs,
but the line practically runs right underneath the Capitol and the
Supreme Court building! That is a freakin legit security concern!
This is where I expect a higher layer of govt. (the Feds) to step in
and make some tough decisions. Expecting the local governments to
compromise and settle this on their own just isn't going to happen.
CSX should be happy that the security agencies (Secret Service, etc.)
haven't come in and shut down the tunnel to Hazmats much like they
shut down the streets in front of the White House. As far as I know,
if they decided to do that, there would be no way to get around their
decision short of Federal court intervention...when it comes to
security, these agencies seem to operate on a principle of "do it now,
ask questions later".
> - Show quoted text -
Revive755
Can't the same thing be said about DC, especially all of their
wonderful freeway deconstruction schemes?
Clark F Morris
wrote:
>> much snipped
What do you do about the Hazmat with a DC destination (chlorine for
example) or origin? Why is it alright for hazmat to go through
downtown Baltimore and Philadelphia and not Washington (while not
right downtown, look at where CSX and Amtrak are on the map)? If we
reroute from Washington what about the rest of the country where major
freight lines are normally within 5 - 10 miles of downtown in many
major cities? While we are at it do we ban hazmat from downtown
freeways and streets? Remember that hazmat in terms of explosive
power includes gasoline and propane.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Allen Seth Dunn" <i_6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Scott M. Kozel" <koze...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > The National Capital Planning Commission (NCPC) is a federal government
> > > agency that provides overall planning guidance for federal land and
> > > buildings in the National Capital Region, which includes the District of
> > > Columbia; Prince George's and Montgomery Counties in Maryland; and
> > > Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William Counties in Virginia,
> > > including the cities and towns located within the geographic area
> > > bounded by these counties.
> >
> > >http://www.ncpc.gov/about.html
> >
> > the state of Maryland, they oppose any new crossings of any kind.
> > Government officials in Maryland need to get their head out of the
> > sand and look at the bigger scheme before opposing such projects. If
> > something happens as a result of their whining and delaying, they
> > should be the ones held responsible. Now that's not to say that they
> > shouldn't be concerned about the cost of building such a project. But
> > surely, one of their people in Congress could get some sort of
> > provision in for the feds to pay for the majority of funding for this,
> > especially since it is their butts they are trying to protect.
>
> for their own citizens and could care less about citizens that live
> outside its jurisdiction, which, honestly, is what I want my elected
> officials to do for me.
Just like the NCPC, huh?! I am siding with the Maryland officials on
this issue, as I think that NCPC is the one who is trying to force a
preconceived solution here, over the desires of local governments. NCPC
is proposing ridiculously expensive solutions that supposedly enhance
their domain, without considering the needs of the areas where they
propose putting these rail lines.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Michael G. Koerner
>
> What do you do about the Hazmat with a DC destination (chlorine for
> example) or origin? Why is it alright for hazmat to go through
> downtown Baltimore and Philadelphia and not Washington (while not
> right downtown, look at where CSX and Amtrak are on the map)? If we
> reroute from Washington what about the rest of the country where major
> freight lines are normally within 5 - 10 miles of downtown in many
> major cities? While we are at it do we ban hazmat from downtown
> freeways and streets? Remember that hazmat in terms of explosive
> power includes gasoline and propane.
Aren't HazMats prohibited from the Fort McHenry (I-95) and Harbor (I-895)
tunnels, instead having to take I-695 around?
HazMats are also prohibited from the freeways in the central Cleveland, OH area.
OTOH, I seldom hear of ANY problems with HazMat transport acciudents.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________