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Re: What's a double-red flashing light mean (Massachusetts)
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Jimmy
Oct 26, 2012, 3:00:52 PM10/26/12
to
NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>
> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
> touching each other)
> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>
> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
websites say you can stop and proceed.
When I saw that installation (or maybe another nearby), I was confused
for a second because I'm not used to seeing a traffic light that's
totally dark.
Jimmy
> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>
> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
> touching each other)
> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>
> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
websites say you can stop and proceed.
When I saw that installation (or maybe another nearby), I was confused
for a second because I'm not used to seeing a traffic light that's
totally dark.
Jimmy
Harry K
Oct 27, 2012, 4:14:33 PM10/27/12
to
sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
Harry K
Paul S Wolf
Oct 27, 2012, 7:56:36 PM10/27/12
to
On 10/27/2012 4:14 PM, Harry K wrote:
> On Oct 26, 12:00 pm, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>> NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>>
>>> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
>>> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
>>> touching each other)
>>> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
>>> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
>>> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>>
>>> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
>>> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>>
>> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
>> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
>> names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
>>
>> The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
>> red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
>> I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
>> can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
>> websites say you can stop and proceed.
Drivers must remain stopped during the Flashing RED period until the
> On Oct 26, 12:00 pm, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>> NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>>
>>> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
>>> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
>>> touching each other)
>>> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
>>> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
>>> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>>
>>> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
>>> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>>
>> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
>> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
>> names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
>>
>> The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
>> red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
>> I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
>> can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
>> websites say you can stop and proceed.
pedestrian(s) have cleared the lanes in the direction the driver is
going, then the drivers may proceed with caution. (In other words,
Drivers facing the alternating flashing red signal indications must stop
and then proceed subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at
a STOP sign.) As noted above, the MUTCD is silent about this in the
section about Pedestrian Hybrid Beacons (4F), but it does describe the
meaning in the section on the similar Emergency-Vehicle Hybrid Beacons
(4G.04 - paragraph 6).
>> When I saw that installation (or maybe another nearby), I was confused
>> for a second because I'm not used to seeing a traffic light that's
>> totally dark.
>>
>> Jimmy
>
> Way back in the 60s I took a new car on a trip through the New England
> sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
> a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
>
> Harry K
>
It meant that it was a signalized/actuated pedestrian crossing. When a
pedestrian wanted to cross, and pushed a pushbutton, it would change to
Yellow, then Red, to stop all vehicles, then to RED and YELLOW together,
which was the equivalent of the WALK / and Flashing DONT WALK phases
(but no pedestrian signals were installed.
--
Paul S. Wolf, PE (Ret.), FITE
mailto:paul....@alum.wpi.edu
Fellow, Institute of Transportation Engineers
Clark F Morris
Oct 27, 2012, 9:18:55 PM10/27/12
to
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <tur...@q.com>
wrote:
At least in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the flashing green is the
same as a green bullseye plus green arrow meaning that the opposing
traffic is stopped and left turns don't have to yield. Normally this
is also an advance green.
Clark Morris
>
>Harry K
wrote:
same as a green bullseye plus green arrow meaning that the opposing
traffic is stopped and left turns don't have to yield. Normally this
is also an advance green.
Clark Morris
>
>Harry K
Harry K
Oct 28, 2012, 10:50:17 AM10/28/12
to
On Oct 27, 6:18 pm, Clark F Morris <cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <turn...@q.com>
should be standard.
Harry K
> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Harry K <turn...@q.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 26, 12:00 pm, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >> NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> > A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>
> >> > Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
> >> > 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
> >> > touching each other)
> >> > 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
> >> > crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
> >> > 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>
> >> > So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
> >> > flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>
> >> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
> >> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
> >> names).http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 26, 12:00 pm, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >> NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> > A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>
> >> > Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on (OK so far)
> >> > 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
> >> > touching each other)
> >> > 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
> >> > crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
> >> > 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>
> >> > So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? Should I treat them as
> >> > flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>
> >> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
> >> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
>
> >> The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
> >> red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
> >> I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
> >> can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
> >> websites say you can stop and proceed.
>
> >> When I saw that installation (or maybe another nearby), I was confused
> >> for a second because I'm not used to seeing a traffic light that's
> >> totally dark.
>
> >> Jimmy
>
> >Way back in the 60s I took a new car on a trip through the New England
> >sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
> >a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
>
> At least in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the flashing green is the
> same as a green bullseye plus green arrow meaning that the opposing
> traffic is stopped and left turns don't have to yield. Normally this
> is also an advance green.
>
> Clark Morris
>
>
>
>
>
> >Harry K
Good explanations and also an outstanding example of why ALL signals
> >> The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
> >> red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
> >> I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
> >> can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
> >> websites say you can stop and proceed.
>
> >> When I saw that installation (or maybe another nearby), I was confused
> >> for a second because I'm not used to seeing a traffic light that's
> >> totally dark.
>
> >> Jimmy
>
> >Way back in the 60s I took a new car on a trip through the New England
> >sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
> >a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
>
> At least in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, the flashing green is the
> same as a green bullseye plus green arrow meaning that the opposing
> traffic is stopped and left turns don't have to yield. Normally this
> is also an advance green.
>
> Clark Morris
>
>
>
>
>
> >Harry K
should be standard.
Harry K
Wally Sevits
Oct 29, 2012, 4:39:35 PM10/29/12
to
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:00:52 -0700 (PDT), Jimmy
<JimmyG...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
>> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>>
>> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on �(OK so far)
>> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
>> touching each other)
>> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
>> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
>> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>>
>> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? �Should I treat them as
>> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>
>It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
>to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
>names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
>
>The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
>red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
>I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
>can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
>websites say you can stop and proceed.
>
Tucson is riddled with these HAWK signals, you can see a picture of
<JimmyG...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>NadCixelsyd <nadcixel...@aol.com> wrote:
>> A weird cross-walk signal on Beacon Street at Boston College.
>>
>> Pedestrian pushes button, yellow light turns on �(OK so far)
>> 5 seconds later, the light changes to double red (two red lights are
>> touching each other)
>> 30? seconds later the red lights flash alternately (kinda like a RR
>> crossing, but there's no distance between the two lights.)
>> 15? seconds later, the lights turn off and await the next pedestrian.
>>
>> So, what do the double-flashing lights mean? �Should I treat them as
>> flashing red (stop, then go) or stop-and-wait?
>
>It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
>to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
>names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
>
>The MUTCD doesn't explain what drivers have to do during the flashing
>red phase. It just says pedestrians have a flashing don't walk then.
>I think they make a point of not saying things like that, so the feds
>can pretend the states still have control over traffic laws. Other
>websites say you can stop and proceed.
>
one here:
<http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/10045/index.cfm>
Does not look like an ordinary traffic signal at all in this locality.
--
Wally Sevits
Jimmy
Oct 30, 2012, 2:05:27 PM10/30/12
to
Paul S Wolf <paul.s.w...@alum.wpi.edu> wrote:
Scroll forward to see the green light go on and off.
Jimmy
> Harry K wrote:
> > Way back in the 60s I took a new car on a trip through the New England
> > sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
> > a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
>
> > Way back in the 60s I took a new car on a trip through the New England
> > sstates to build up mileage for one of the maintenance jobs. Ran into
> > a blinking GREEN light!! WTF did or does that mean?
>
> That was unique to Massachusetts.
>
> It meant that it was a signalized/actuated pedestrian crossing.
Why the past tense? http://goo.gl/maps/0MDS0
>
> It meant that it was a signalized/actuated pedestrian crossing.
Scroll forward to see the green light go on and off.
Jimmy
Paul D. DeRocco
Oct 30, 2012, 10:43:19 PM10/30/12
to
> On 10/26/2012 12:00 PM, Jimmy wrote:
>
> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
> names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
This seems to me to be a stupid invention. The only explanation I can
>
> It's a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon (also known as a HAWK, in an attempt
> to be as annoying as the British with bird-themed crosswalk type
> names). http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part4/part4f.htm
think of for the flashing yellow phase is to inform oncoming drivers
that there is a light there, rather than suddenly turning on a yellow
light where there was previously no light. But given that there is no
need for having two red lights, one might as well simply use a
conventional G/Y/R light, since everyone already knows what that means.
Or are they trying to be "green" by not having a green light on all the
time? With modern LEDs, the power consumption is pretty puny.
I always liked the G/Y/R with a flashing green that they use in
Massachusetts. Same hardware, programmed slightly differently, and the
flashing reassures drivers that the light is unlikely to change.
--
Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
Paul mailto:pder...@ix.netcom.com
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