Wal-Mart store closings?

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M. Hale

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Jan 7, 2002, 7:09:39 PM1/7/02
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Has Wal-Mart ever closed a store and *not* replaced it with a larger/newer
normal store or a Supercenter? Could Wal-Mart be one of the few stores not
to suffer from this closing stores to retrench to better territory syndrome?

Mike

Chris Lawrence

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Jan 7, 2002, 7:43:55 PM1/7/02
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They have occasionally closed a store or two without replacing it, but
those instances are few and far between. I believe they closed their
store on American Way in Memphis a few years back without replacing it
with a SuperCenter nearby; however, I think the main driving factors
there were high shrink, it being too far from other retail (American Way
became a commercial dead zone in the past 10 years), bad accessibility
(while it backed up to I-240's ROW, you had to drive out of your way to
get to it), and low sales. It kinda parallels the history of American
Way, a briefly successful effort to develop the Nonconnah Creek corridor
into a retail strip that would help the city's tax base and divert
shopping from Hickory Hill and other suburbs. The centerpiece, the Mall
of Memphis, is now completely anchorless (JCPenney, the last anchor, is
pulling out).

There may be a few other instances. I don't think WMT's ever withdrawn
totally from a town after opening a store there though, which is what I
think you're getting at. Certainly not in North America. You'd have to
try real hard to *lose* money with WMT's business model (bring
moderately-priced goods to communities that are underserved by existing
retail options, then take the profit from that and take over the big
cities from K-Mart while you're at it).


Chris

peacock

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Jan 7, 2002, 9:03:26 AM1/7/02
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Chris Lawrence wrote:

> The centerpiece, the Mall
> of Memphis, is now completely anchorless (JCPenney, the last anchor, is
> pulling out).

Look at this Mapquest overhead photo:
http://mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=vs%252fUjodaHQBC4JEwtQGaCmKpsOrmXJ3RQSGQgsyxsgFYXjGhQP1Ita0RlGdEYxeILrHhFNTtrsg7bGyC545S0GSCwWUMDBX6Dhiodf0ZCF81QqgTLxbf05P%252f2iF21I7%252bdQ%252f%252f1tKNT%252fgPMOc2tmtHjNvCZtoLN37Ze9sy7LmzQRm9QKK9UDYoZm9nBVRf5sQPFn6YqwzbLIdHCi74qs2PDJKtvAihqaAwv19hlH1F3irH8vsagZ%252bfpNgbpeJxNvN85LpJGkcLCmOMmRoQg0GxUdc5%252bufp9l4e&click=center&map.x=83&map.y=104

and see how few cars are there.

Also, what were the other anchors for the Memphis mall?


--
from the iBook of Bobby Peacock
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
roadgeek and artist


Bobby Henderson

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Jan 7, 2002, 9:07:13 PM1/7/02
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"M. Hale" <ha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c3a3853$1...@vienna7.his.com...

They can only go so far in opening up new stores before the market is
totally saturated. Tonight, here in Lawton, OK, our city council is
debating whether Wal-Mart should be allowed to go ahead and build a second
Supercenter here on the west side of town. We already have a really huge
Wal-Mart Supercenter and Sam's Club on Sheridan Road. There's many
residents on the west side who have high priced homes and think their
property will get devalued or something if the new store is built. Others
want a Target store or something else resembling a choice. I think one
Wal-Mart here is enough for this size of city.

Bobby Henderson

Adrian Leskiw

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Jan 7, 2002, 9:46:36 PM1/7/02
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The centerpiece, the Mall
> of Memphis, is now completely anchorless (JCPenney, the last anchor, is
> pulling out).

The Mall of Memphis is the region's most centrally located shopping and
entertainment destination, truly the Marketplace of the Mid-South. A growing
mix of exclusive retail and dining, combined with improved amenities
including the expanded Ice Chalet create a dynamic and exciting environment
for the entire family.

Come see for yourself what we are doing to improve your place - The
Marketplace of the Mid-South.

---from www.mallofmemphis.com


Evans A Criswell

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Jan 7, 2002, 10:03:06 PM1/7/02
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I am shocked to read this! The last time I was in the Mall of Memphis,
it was doing fine, and all three anchor stores were there. I believe
the anchors were Sears, Dillards, and JCPenney. The first time I went in
that mall was September 1990. I remember this because I bought a pair
of M C Hammer pants at the Jeans West store. (I've still got them, too. :-))
I don't go to Memphis but once every two or three years, but usually it
takes longer than that for a mall to go from great to nothing. It's in
a good location (or seems to be) right off the interstate where there's
lots of traffic. What caused the decline of this mall so suddenly?

Evans A Criswell

In article <3c3a5229$0$37106$2c3e...@news.voyager.net>,

Brandon Kraft

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Jan 7, 2002, 11:42:11 PM1/7/02
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"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:lvs_7.5509$6t4.177...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people
last time I checked. Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that Lawton's
city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
"super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.
Crazy.....

Brandon

Stephen Taylor

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Jan 8, 2002, 10:32:29 AM1/8/02
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"Brandon Kraft" <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message news:<oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>...

In Texas, Wal-mart closed the store at Hearne after forcing
all the other small businesses out; the AP did a story on how you now
have to drive 12 miles to buy underwear or toothpaste. They
threatened to close the store at Bridge City but backed down. I think
that store is still a target for closure...
Stephen Taylor
Austin TX (Where, Thank God, we have choices)

Bobby Henderson

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Jan 8, 2002, 1:26:34 PM1/8/02
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Brandon Kraft <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message
news:oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people
> last time I checked.

Actually, the population inside Lawton city limits is over 90,000 residents.
The "official" population figures now include Fort Sill though and that
pushes it to over 110,000 (the actual city name is now "Lawton-Fort Sill".
The city fathers were allowed to do that since Norman started counting the
population of Oklahoma University in its official figures. It's all just a
stupid battle over which is really the 3rd largest city in Oklahoma.
There's another 20,000 residents in close proximity to Lawton. That adds up
to a reasonably decent sized metro population.


> Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
> helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
> Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that Lawton's
> city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
> "super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.

That's true. But the city council is only debating the issue for the
interests of some wealthy property owners in that area. If Wal-Mart had
proposed to build the new site in a less affluent area of town, it probably
would go through without any problem.

The debate might end up being a moot point. Business people with whom I've
discussed the issue say the site Wal-Mart has chosen was already
commercially zoned. Wal-Mart has already purchased the property legally as
well. If the city goes through with blocking the build, Wal-Mart could drag
the city council into a court battle. As witless as some of our council
members have been in the past (with a number of lost law suits to show for
it as well) I would give Wal-Mart a commanding edge on winning the battle.

As for what the Lawton-Fort Sill marketplace can support, I don't think
another Supercenter is warranted. Others have pointed out that Wal-Mart may
only use the site to build a grocery store-only location. But we already
have several grocery stores in that area (a new and giant sized Country
Mart, Homeland and United are all close by). The Lawton Constituion editor
complains that Wal-Mart is doing predatory business tactics. I don't agree.

My paycheck is already pretty stretched as it is. The "locally operated"
stores (yeah right) charge nearly a full dollar more for a gallon of milk
than what I pay at the Wal-Mart Supercenter on Sheridan Road. Those grocery
stores with higher prices are not exactly paying a lot of people really
great wages. Perhaps the store managers might do okay, but the others don't
make squat. So I don't see a big loss to our tax base if a Country Mart
location happens to fold. I might care about it differently if it were a
business paying people good liveable wages. Lawton-Fort Sill is famous for
having a good number of local businessmen who don't pay their workers squat,
try to take advantage of military people and do lots of other dishonest
crap. It doesn't break my heart for some big out of town business to come
in and bust some heads with that in mind. If your business is offering a
good product at appropriately competitive prices your business will survive.

Aside from that rant, I still don't think there is enough of a market to
support two Wal-Mart locations.

Bobby Henderson


swissJohn29

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Jan 8, 2002, 2:15:02 PM1/8/02
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> > > > Has Wal-Mart ever closed a store and *not* replaced it with a
> larger/newer
> > > > normal store or a Supercenter? Could Wal-Mart be one of the few stores
> not
> > > > to suffer from this closing stores to retrench to better territory
> > > syndrome?
> > >
> In Texas, Wal-mart closed the store at Hearne after forcing
> all the other small businesses out; the AP did a story on how you now
> have to drive 12 miles to buy underwear or toothpaste. They
> threatened to close the store at Bridge City but backed down. I think
> that store is still a target for closure...

I drove by that Hearne store once, and remember hearing later about it
closing. Allen (north of Dallas) also lost it's Wal-Mart after
deciding that building a store on US 75/Spring Creek in Plano would be
an adequate replacement. Last year, Wal-Mart went to the Allen city
council to ask for a permit to build a Super Wal-Mart there ......
Well, needless to say, there was mixed reaction because the locals in
Allen were still smarting from losing their original Wal-Mart. I
haven't heard whether they went ahead with building the Super in Allen
or not, but now the Plano "replacement" store has decided to add
groceries, so it will become upgraded to a Super sometime this year.
There is also a closed Wal-Mart in Plano at West 15th/Custer that last
I heard, was a craft or antique mall. Most of the other Wal-Marts
that I have seen close were immediately replaced with Supers nearby.

Scott Nuzum

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Jan 8, 2002, 4:14:51 PM1/8/02
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Brandon Kraft wrote in message ...

>
>"Bobby Henderson" <bob...@swbell.net> wrote in message
>news:lvs_7.5509$6t4.177...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> "M. Hale" <ha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:3c3a3853$1...@vienna7.his.com...
>> > Has Wal-Mart ever closed a store and *not* replaced it with a
>larger/newer
>> > normal store or a Supercenter? Could Wal-Mart be one of the few stores
>> not
>> > to suffer from this closing stores to retrench to better territory
>> syndrome?
>>
>> They can only go so far in opening up new stores before the market is
>> totally saturated. Tonight, here in Lawton, OK, our city council is
>> debating whether Wal-Mart should be allowed to go ahead and build a
second
>> Supercenter here on the west side of town. We already have a really huge
>> Wal-Mart Supercenter and Sam's Club on Sheridan Road. There's many
>> residents on the west side who have high priced homes and think their
>> property will get devalued or something if the new store is built.
Others
>> want a Target store or something else resembling a choice. I think one
>> Wal-Mart here is enough for this size of city.
>>
>> Bobby Henderson
>>
>They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people
>last time I checked.

Heck, Joplin has *three* Supercenters, if you count the one on the south
side of Webb City on Range Line/Madison. I'm sure a lot of Joplinites go
there who don't want to drive through traffic in Range Line to the south.
And Joplin has only 42,000 people and has two Supercenters inside the city
limits.

S.E.N.
Once you add on all those other little towns and suburbs, though, the Joplin
"metro" has quite a lot of people.


Brandon Kraft

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Jan 8, 2002, 5:00:04 PM1/8/02
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"Bobby Henderson" <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u3me6fj...@corp.supernews.com...

> Brandon Kraft <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message
> news:oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> > They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000
people
> > last time I checked.
>
> Actually, the population inside Lawton city limits is over 90,000
residents.
> The "official" population figures now include Fort Sill though and that
> pushes it to over 110,000 (the actual city name is now "Lawton-Fort Sill".
> The city fathers were allowed to do that since Norman started counting the
> population of Oklahoma University in its official figures. It's all just
a
> stupid battle over which is really the 3rd largest city in Oklahoma.
> There's another 20,000 residents in close proximity to Lawton. That adds
up
> to a reasonably decent sized metro population.
>

Oh wow.... I don't know where I got the 50,000 from... it just sounded
right. I never realized that Lawton was that close to Wichita Falls
population-wise. (Side note: I found out, via Advertising Age magazine, that
Wichita Falls is the most average city in America....interesting) I looked
up the figures: Lawton's MSA (Metro Stat Area) has 114,000 in it so Lawton
really is a decent sized place.

>
> > Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
> > helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
> > Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that
Lawton's
> > city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
> > "super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.
>
> That's true. But the city council is only debating the issue for the
> interests of some wealthy property owners in that area. If Wal-Mart had
> proposed to build the new site in a less affluent area of town, it
probably
> would go through without any problem.

I didn't take that into consideration (given that I'm really unaware of
local activities up there).

>
> The debate might end up being a moot point. Business people with whom
I've
> discussed the issue say the site Wal-Mart has chosen was already
> commercially zoned. Wal-Mart has already purchased the property legally
as
> well. If the city goes through with blocking the build, Wal-Mart could
drag
> the city council into a court battle. As witless as some of our council
> members have been in the past (with a number of lost law suits to show for
> it as well) I would give Wal-Mart a commanding edge on winning the battle.
>

Wal-Mart had a similar issue here. They bought the land legally but the city
didn't want them to build "b/c of street access" and they didn't want any
more traffic along that route until proper relievers could be in place
(still aren't). I don't remember the details anymore but there is a street
(Trade) along the old railroad corridor that came out of it. Sounds like the
same general thing for you: city has qualms but wal-mart has the upper hand.

Wal-Marts are cheaper on some items but frankly, I can't stand them for
grocery shopping. The layouts of the Wichita Falls' stores leave things to
be desired not to mention that you'll spend more time in line waiting for
checkout than actually shopping. Good point about the local businesses-
there is a good amount of that here too.

John Brocato

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Jan 8, 2002, 5:38:34 PM1/8/02
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"M. Hale" <ha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3c3a3853$1...@vienna7.his.com>...
> Has Wal-Mart ever closed a store and *not* replaced it with a larger/newer
> normal store or a Supercenter? Could Wal-Mart be one of the few stores not
> to suffer from this closing stores to retrench to better territory syndrome?

I believe that when Wal-Mart built the Supercenter in Eureka, MO, they
closed both the first Eureka store and one in Pacific. I don't think
Pacific has a Wal-Mart.

By the way, in St. Louis, they are building new many new regular
stores (see new Fenton store). We desperately need Supercenters in
St. Louis County.

John Brocato

Lance Purple

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Jan 8, 2002, 5:43:03 PM1/8/02
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Yes, they closed at least two in Austin TX. The one next to Highland Mall
quickly reopened as a Burlington outlet. The one on US-183 North sat empty
for a few years, and is about to reopen as an Academy sporting goods store.

--
.-----------------------------------------------------------------.
/ Lance Purple lpurple<a>io.com http://purple.home.texas.net /
'-----------------------------------------------------------------'

Chris Lawrence

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Jan 8, 2002, 6:03:31 PM1/8/02
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On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:03:26 -0600, peacock wrote:
> Also, what were the other anchors for the Memphis mall?

When it opened, they were JCP, Dillard's, Thalheimers, and Service
Merchandise. Thalheimers went bankrupt and Dillard's took over its space
as a men's store, then SM closed its location, followed by Dillard's and
now (soon) JCP.


Chris

Adrian Leskiw

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Jan 8, 2002, 8:04:31 PM1/8/02
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Why have they all left?

"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.01.08.17....@watervalley.net...

Anthony Boor

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Jan 8, 2002, 8:40:24 PM1/8/02
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john_b...@yahoo.com (John Brocato) wrote in message news:<6726d057.0201...@posting.google.com>...

>
> I believe that when Wal-Mart built the Supercenter in Eureka, MO, they
> closed both the first Eureka store and one in Pacific. I don't think
> Pacific has a Wal-Mart.
>
> By the way, in St. Louis, they are building new many new regular
> stores (see new Fenton store). We desperately need Supercenters in
> St. Louis County.
>

Kirkwood, Chesterfield, South County, Fenton Wal-Marts have all popped
up in S St. Louis County recently. I have also heard that Wal-Mart is
thinking about building again in Fenton, in between their current
Fenton location and the new Gravois Bluffs development. By the time I
get back to STL to visit again, there will probably be a WM on every
corner at this rate.

STL County also has WMs in Eureka (which you mentioned), Ballwin, St.
Ann and one other place. The closest Super Center I know to STL is in
Festus.

--Anthony Boor
Phoenix, AZ

US71

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Jan 8, 2002, 9:34:09 PM1/8/02
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"Brandon Kraft" <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message news:<oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>...

> They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people


> last time I checked. Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
> helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
> Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that Lawton's
> city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
> "super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.
> Crazy.....

Fayetteville, AR with a population of approx 60,000 (not including
college students) has TWO Supercenters and a Neighborhood Market...
but NO K-Marts (though a Target is under construction less than a mile
from the north Supercenter).

Ft Smith (population 80,000) has 2 Supercenters, a "regular" Wal-Mart
and a Neighborhood Market, plus 1 K-mart.

Robert Lee

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Jan 8, 2002, 10:23:04 PM1/8/02
to
> Has Wal-Mart ever closed a store and *not* replaced it with a larger/newer
> normal store or a Supercenter? Could Wal-Mart be one of the few stores not
> to suffer from this closing stores to retrench to better territory syndrome?

Wal-Mart replaced shopping center stores in West Point, MS and
Demopolis, AL with small aluminum sided stores, not even the size of a
regular store. They have maybe 8 registers, cramp aisles, and no
ceiling tiles. I'd like to know how some towns get small Supercenters
while other towns get small tin barns.

The store in Aberdeen, MS was closed, but I presume it was in
conjunction with the opening of a Supercenter in Amory, MS 10 miles or
so away.

-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Lee / Starkville MS / http://corridorx.cjb.net

Robert Lee

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Jan 8, 2002, 10:59:28 PM1/8/02
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"Adrian Leskiw" <a_le...@roadmaps.org> wrote in message news:<J2t_7.7842$b7.1...@news.itd.umich.edu>...

JCPenney has managed to keep a store in Philadelphia, MS after 40 or
more years. It's downtown. It's so small that they have to put items
outside. The traffic is terrible. The parking is worse. There's a full
sized JCPenney 40 miles away in Meridian. I'm amazed that the
Philadelphia store is still open. Yet JCPenney has decide to close the
2-level store in your mall. If your mall is so centrally located, why
has everyone left? All you have now are a bunch of little stores that
probably will eventually close as well, since they already have other
locations in Memphis, leaving you with nothing. I have seen empty
malls try to redevelop, but with little to no success.

When the tenants in the Village Fair Mall in Meridian left for the new
Bonita Lakes Mall 4 1/2 years ago, the owner of Village Fair tried to
change it into a bargain hunter's paradise and family fun experience.
It failed miserably. Now it's completely closed except for Hudson's
Treasure Hunt. Many of the stores around the mall left, leaving the
mall and the strip mall across the creek from it an eyesore for all
who travel to Meridian on I-20/59.

When the tenants in the Cloverleaf Mall in Hattiesburg left for the
new Bonita Turtle Creek Mall 7 years ago, the owners renovated to
bring in new stores. They ended up with Hudson's Treasure Hunt, Big
Lots, Stein Mart, Albertson's [now closed]; plus OfficeMax, Rite Aid,
and Big 10 Tires on parcels on the mall grounds. With the exception of
Officemax and to some extent Rite Aid, these are stores normally found
in run-down shopping centers or occupying parts of an old Wal-Mart.
Even though the mall is directly on a major highway, the area around
the mall is run down except for the Super Wal-Mart, which was built
across the highway.

When the tenants in the Village Fair Mall in Meridian left for the new
Bonita Lakes Mall, the owner of Village Fair tried to change it into a
bargain hunter's paradise. It failed. Now it's completely closed,
except for Hudson's Treasure Hunt; and an eyesore for all who travel
to Meridian on I-20/59.

Please do not write this crap about "most centrally located shopping
and entertainment destination." If it is such a destination, you'd
still have JCPenney, and you'd be trying to get new stores such as
Dillard's, Rich's, Macy's, and Sears, among others to fill your other
2-level anchor stores. Plus you'd still have one other important thing
needed to make a mall, or any store for that matter, succeed:
customers!

------------------------------------------------------
Robert Lee / Starkville, MS / http://corridorx.cjb.net

Michael D. Adams

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Jan 9, 2002, 8:00:06 AM1/9/02
to
Robert Lee <re...@ra.msstate.edu> wrote, regarding the decline/demise of
the Mall of Memphis (which is on I-240, to keep this on topic...)

: Yet JCPenney has decide to close the


: 2-level store in your mall. If your mall is so centrally located, why
: has everyone left? All you have now are a bunch of little stores that
: probably will eventually close as well, since they already have other
: locations in Memphis, leaving you with nothing. I have seen empty
: malls try to redevelop, but with little to no success.

I had to make an trip to Memphis right after Christmas, due to a
medical emergency in my family. During my trip, I learned about the
decline and fall of the Mall of Memphis (which was THE place for
mall-rats when I was in high school).

It seems that the two issues contributing to the failure of MoM are:

* Development of too much mall/retail space on the east side of
Memphis (read: WolfChase Gallaria & Germantown Parkway); and

* Crime. The Mall of Memphis has apparently picked up a new
nickname in the past year or two: The Mall of Murder.


Side note -- I had the opportunity to make a side trip up to southern
Illinois that trip, once things had settled down, to spend the
afternoon with my grandfather. My wife tagged along, armed with her
new camcorder.

Once I figure out the video and conversion software, I may be posting
a video of what it's like to drive across the Mississippi River on the
Chester Bridge (MO 51 / IL 150) up on my website. :)

--
___
<*,*> Michael D. Adams | Highway Heaven -- Exit list
[`-'] mda at triskele dot com | index, lists, and more:
-"-"- http://www.triskele.com | http://www.triskele.com/highways

Howard S Wharton

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Jan 9, 2002, 8:59:58 AM1/9/02
to
A few years ago in some town in Northern new York (forgot the name)
Wal-Mart came in and put the other stores out of business. Then they
closed leaving the town without any stores. Their calim for closing the
store...not enough business to maintain it.

Howard S. Wharton
Fire Safety Technician
Occupational and Environmental Safety Services
State University of New York at Buffalo

Shawn K. Quinn

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Jan 9, 2002, 3:07:48 PM1/9/02
to
On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:00:06 GMT, Michael D. Adams
<mda-...@triskele.com> wrote:
> It seems that the two issues contributing to the failure of MoM are:
[...]

> * Crime. The Mall of Memphis has apparently picked up a new
> nickname in the past year or two: The Mall of Murder.

Much like Greenspoint Mall in Houston acquiring the nickname "Gunspoint"
(which IMO it no longer deserves).

--
Shawn K. Quinn

John Brocato

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Jan 9, 2002, 5:20:09 PM1/9/02
to
cc...@yahoo.com (Anthony Boor) wrote in message news:<b47697fa.02010...@posting.google.com>...

The new Fenton Wal-Mart (at Gravois Bluffs) opened in October, 2001.
It is not a supercenter. The closest supercenters to St. Louis are
(as you said) Festus, Eureka, and Highland, IL (which is about 30
miles northeast of downtown).

From Hazelwood, I like to shop at the supercenter in Troy, MO.

John Brocato

Bobby Henderson

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Jan 9, 2002, 5:21:47 PM1/9/02
to
Bobby Henderson <arow...@mail.sirinet.net> wrote in message
news:u3me6fj...@corp.supernews.com...
> The debate might end up being a moot point. Business people with whom
I've
> discussed the issue say the site Wal-Mart has chosen was already
> commercially zoned. Wal-Mart has already purchased the property legally
as
> well.

Here's an update on the Lawton situation with Wal-Mart. At last night's
City Council meeting, the council voted 7 to 1 to okay selling 2.2 acres of
surplus city land near US-62 and 67th Street. If the council had blocked
what they could, Wal-Mart would have built only a standalone grocery store.
The okay allows the construction of a second full-fledged Supercenter to be
built on the west side of the city.

I'm not sure if the market can support it, but the new Wal-Mart will be in a
pretty good location.

Bobby Henderson


Message has been deleted

Edward Curtis

unread,
Jan 10, 2002, 12:03:08 AM1/10/02
to
In article <3c3d198a$1...@news1.meganetnews.com>, mas...@all.niggers
says...

> > * Crime. The Mall of Memphis has apparently picked up a new
> > nickname in the past year or two: The Mall of Murder.
>
> What do you expect when the mall is located in Coon Town. "Datz where da
> nigguhs be pimpin and thuggin" The decline of the Parkway Village area is
> due to niggers moving in and their high crime rates. See why Whites don't
> want nogs in their neighborhoods? Shitskin apes bring everything down.

*plonk*

Richard M. Simpson III

unread,
Jan 10, 2002, 7:15:31 AM1/10/02
to
"Edward Curtis" <cur...@labyrinth.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.16a6eab31...@news.labyrinth.net...

> In article <3c3d198a$1...@news1.meganetnews.com>, mas...@all.niggers
> says...
> > What do you expect when the mall is located in Coon Town. "Datz where
da
> > nigguhs be pimpin and thuggin" The decline of the Parkway Village area
is
> > due to niggers moving in and their high crime rates. See why Whites
don't
> > want nogs in their neighborhoods? Shitskin apes bring everything down.
>
> *plonk*

Agreed.

I MISSED the post that Edward's were quoting....pushed the refresh button
before I read it...

Who is this troll?

--
-----------
Richard M. Simpson, III
ALPCA #9047, RMCA #500
www.southportalumni.org
"Quick! Lock the door. Someone will walk in with a case we can win."
-D.A. Adam Schiff, Law & Order


Michael D. Adams

unread,
Jan 10, 2002, 7:50:41 AM1/10/02
to
[crosspost to alt.flame.n* removed]

In misc.transport.road Mississippi Master <mas...@all.niggers> wrote:
: "Michael D. Adams" <mda-...@triskele.com> wrote in message

*plonk*...and, now it's time to go look up the address at Google to
ask to have articles yanked from the archives. I really don't want my
address associated with alt.flame.n*

Peter Rosa

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Jan 10, 2002, 1:31:22 PM1/10/02
to
Edward Curtis <cur...@labyrinth.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.16a6eab31...@news.labyrinth.net>...


That post probably was meant to be sarcasm, poking fun at the fearful
people who won't patronize the mall because *those people* shop there.

--
Peter Rosa
pros...@yahoo.com
R32...@aol.com

Stanley Cline

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Jan 10, 2002, 2:21:33 PM1/10/02
to
On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:50:41 GMT, "Michael D. Adams"
<mda-...@triskele.com> wrote:

>*plonk*...and, now it's time to go look up the address at Google to
>ask to have articles yanked from the archives. I really don't want my

http://groups.google.com/googlegroups/help.html#9

-SC
--
Stanley Cline -- sc1 at roamer1 dot org -- http://www.roamer1.org/
...
"Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might
be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune

Mike St.

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Jan 10, 2002, 9:27:42 PM1/10/02
to
"Brandon Kraft" <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message news:<oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>...
> They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people
> last time I checked. Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
> helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
> Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that Lawton's
> city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
> "super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.
> Crazy.....
>
> Brandon

In Paducah, KY they have two. The 'West' one is just off I-24 on US 60
(This was one of the first Super Wal-Marts). The 'East' one os not
too far from I-24 and is just of BL 24 at US 60/KY 1954. Paducah Pop.:
Less than 28,000.

Here in West Bend, WI (pop 28,152), we have the second Super Wal-Mart
ever built in Wisconsin, which opened a few years ago. May have caused
two causalities, both supermarket. First, WMT wanted to build a
regular Wal-Mart on WI 33 near Valley and were victims of richer
NIMBYs. Then, without the public (and possibily the owner of the
bigger supermarkets in town) knowing, the city let them come in to the
new corporate center at US 45 and Paradise Dr. (Better location, IMHO.
The other one was at least a mile from US 45.)

A.T. Tapman

unread,
Jan 10, 2002, 9:47:56 PM1/10/02
to

Is the above untrue?

"Western [White] man towers over the rest of the world in ways so large
as to be almost inexpressible. It's Western exploration, science, and
conquest that have revealed the world to itself. Other races feel like
subjects of Western power long after colonialism, imperialism, and
slavery have disappeared. The charge of racism puzzles Whites who feel
not hostility, but only baffled good will, because they don't grasp what
it really means: humiliation. The White man presents an image of
superiority even when he isn't conscious of it. And superiority excites
envy." Joseph Sobran

Your Friend, A.T. Tapman Chaplain USA (RET)

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Sean

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Jan 11, 2002, 12:49:26 AM1/11/02
to

> "Brandon Kraft" <cheese...@cst.net> wrote in message
news:<oJu_7.148932$lV4.25...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>...
> > They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000
people
> > last time I checked.

Sorry, responding to you late, Brandon. York, PA, has two Wal-Mart
Supercenters just outside the city borders (both somewhat near US 30) in a
"metro area" that can't have more than 70,000 residents.


Clandestine Ops

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Jan 11, 2002, 7:30:48 AM1/11/02
to
White folks don't want to walk through parking lots full of cars blasting
their bumpers off with jungle music just to go shopping.


"Peter Rosa" <pros...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41d2a06a.02011...@posting.google.com...


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Bobby Henderson

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Jan 11, 2002, 9:58:07 AM1/11/02
to
Richard M. Simpson III <rsim...@telocity.com> wrote in message
news:3c3d8...@nopics.sjc...

> I MISSED the post that Edward's were quoting....pushed the refresh button
> before I read it...
>
> Who is this troll?


Here's the headers I pulled from "its" post:

From: "Mississippi Master" <mas...@all.niggers>
Newsgroups: misc.transport.road,alt.flame.niggers
References: <3c3a3853$1...@vienna7.his.com>
<pan.2002.01.07.18....@watervalley.net>
<J2t_7.7842$b7.1...@news.itd.umich.edu>
<6fe070d9.02010...@posting.google.com>
<7ieh1a...@linux.triskele.com>
Subject: Re: Wal-Mart store closings?
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:52:57 -0600
Lines: 35
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Message-ID: <3c3d198a$1...@news1.meganetnews.com>
Path:
sn-us!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!
out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!hub
1.nntpserver.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!news1.meganetnews.com
Xref: sn-us misc.transport.road:308969 alt.flame.niggers:410807

Very obviously the miscreant is a troll. Add it to your killfile.

Bobby Henderson


Bobby Henderson

unread,
Jan 11, 2002, 9:58:38 AM1/11/02
to
Mississippi Master <mas...@all.niggers> wrote in message
news:3c3d198a$1...@news1.meganetnews.com...

> What do you expect when the mall is located in Coon Town. "Datz where da
> nigguhs be pimpin and thuggin" The decline of the Parkway Village area is
> due to niggers moving in and their high crime rates. See why Whites don't
> want nogs in their neighborhoods? Shitskin apes bring everything down.

Welcome to my killfile. PLONK.

Bobby Henderson


Bobby Henderson

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Jan 11, 2002, 10:01:20 AM1/11/02
to
Clandestine Ops <wese...@fbi.gov> wrote in message
news:3c3ed7df$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...

> White folks don't want to walk through parking lots full of cars blasting
> their bumpers off with jungle music just to go shopping.

Judging by the headers (listed below), you must be another troll posting
from an anonymous account.

Bobby Henderson

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:30:48 -0600
Lines: 34


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RLDean

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Jan 11, 2002, 10:23:36 PM1/11/02
to
>From: "Brandon Kraft" cheese...@cst.net
>Date: 1/7/02 11:42 PM Easter

>They want a SECOND supercenter in Lawton??? Lawton only has 50,000 people

>last time I checked. Honestly, the Wichita Falls Supercenters haven't really
>helped that much. Sure, they have people, but people have stopped using
>Burk's and Iowa Park's has closed down b/c of them. I'm glad that Lawton's
>city council is looking at the issue closely. Supercenters lose their
>"super" character if everyone has one within a block of their home.
>Crazy.....
>
>Brandon
>


The closest Supercenter to my town is in Monroe NY (Orange Cty) at Harriman
Commons, 30 miles via I-287 and either NY 17 or I-87/NY Thruway; according the
Wal-Mart store directory online it is the the closest supercenter to NY City.
Next closest is Stroudsburg PA via I-80, 60 miles. According to the W-M
directory they have none in NJ so far.

Rich Dean
Butler NJ

RLDean

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Jan 11, 2002, 10:34:06 PM1/11/02
to
>From: "Bobby Henderson" arow...@mail.sirinet.net

>Here's an update on the Lawton situation with Wal-Mart. At last night's
>City Council meeting, the council voted 7 to 1 to okay selling 2.2 acres of
>surplus city land near US-62 and 67th Street


Does OK have a law requiring the municipality to sell the land at a legally
advertised public auction? In NJ, that's what is required unless selling to
another municipality, county, state or federal entity.

Rich Dean

Chris Lawrence

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Jan 12, 2002, 5:14:22 AM1/12/02
to
On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:04:31 -0600, Adrian Leskiw wrote:

> Why have they all left?

Well, in no particular order:

- Hickory Ridge Mall opened at more or less the same time; the only store
at MoM that isn't at HR is JCP. (Dillard's added a HR location a few
years after HR opened.) HR probably aimed at more-or-less the "standard
mall demographic."

- Up Perkins at Poplar Ave, they built a boutique style mall at the
Goldsmith's location at Oak Court; Dillard's moved in soon thereafter.
Oak Court is pretty upscale.

- Out east, Wolfchase Galleria opened ~4 years ago, the first Memphis
mall in a long time to have all of Goldsmith's, Dillard's, JCP, and Sears
in one building.

In addition to new mall openings, MoM is on the north edge of the Parkway
Village/Fox Meadows area. The original population of this area has aged
and moved on, and it has been replaced by "black flight" from the worst
parts of Memphis. MoM, unlike Southland Mall, hasn't adapted
successfully to the new demographics in the area (though Southland has
probably had a 10+ year headstart). I'm not a sociologist, so I can't
really explain why this would necessarily undermine retail sales; perhaps
the explanation is that typical anchors like JCP and Dillard's don't
market enough products that appeal to African-Americans.


Chris

Bobby Henderson

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Jan 12, 2002, 9:07:47 PM1/12/02
to
"RLDean" <rld...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020111223406...@mb-mj.aol.com...


I don't think so. I think the only things required of the municipality is
public disclosure of the intended sale and to allow the public to have their
voices heard on the matter. In the case of the second Wal-Mart Supercenter
in Lawton, a couple meetings have already been held with the final deciding
meeting having happened this past Tuesday. It seemed like more people in
the area were for the proposal overall than against. The only opposition
seemed to come from some weathly residents near the proposed site and people
representing Country Mart grocery stores.

Bobby Henderson

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