Columbus to Pittsburgh (and back)

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Denny

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Now that I've caught up with most of the posts, I'll try to remember what I
did last week. :-)
I divide my time in Pittsburgh into two posts. This one will be the travel
part, a second post will be part theory/analysis/ and interesting sights
from the Geography conference (aka AAG).

The route out (from OSU). Oh 315 south to I-670 east to I-71 south to I-70
east to Oh 158 north to US 40 east to I-70 east to US 40 east to I-70 east
to I-79 north to I-279 north (it was more like US 22/30 east) to the 10th
st. bypass to the David L. Lawrence Convention center.
Of note....
Flying J at Kirkersville (Oh 158 at I-70) 1.24 for unleaded. Beats the
second best (Flying J at Sunbury) by 11 cents.
Finished my on-site observations for the old I-70 connector at Kirkersville.
Most of the highway is still there.
What was the EB lanes is Oh 158 while what was the WB lanes are decaying
away. The bend from the current route to connector happens to the west of
the Oh 158 interchange (now that I've explored it, I spotted it easily when
coming back on I-70). To keep the abandoned lanes abandoned, they end at a
mound of dirt on the south side and at a dirt slope (not steep enough for a
cliff) on the north side where a bridge once stood. I am fairly certain the
WB lanes went over US 40, I just don't know how they could of connected.

From this point till Wheeling (except between Old Washington and Fairview
where you *can't you can't get there from here* without using I-70) I drove
east on US 40 through Hebron, Zanesville, Cambridge, St. Clairsville, and
the like.

It's funny, I saw plenty of old National Rd milemarkers when I was looking
for one to take a picture of, but seldom saw one after I got the picture
done.

I guess there is a Hebron by-pass for Oh 79 (though, next map I see showing
it will be the first for me), and with it a business state route for the
former routing of Oh 79. I've never seen a state business route in Ohio (or
anywhere else now that I think about it) before.

Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
Columbus and Wheeling. Did get several pictures of the "Y- bridge" from
several angles.

New Concord, on the other hand from Zanesville, looks phony, as in too nice.
Granted it's a college town, but easy up on the signs and the trees folks.

Got several pictures of a "S-bridge" between New Concord and Cambridge. The
bridge is just off to the side of the present day routing and was
incorporated into a small park with an Ohio Historical marker from 1954(!).

Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
This doesn't mean it wasn't signed before.

Cambridge doesn't look half bad, especially in light of it's *neighbors*

Old US 40 is signed as County Rt 40A (between Fairview and Oh 800) in
Belmont Co.

Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits 202
and 204
The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is I-70
itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).

St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember what I
said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing something
right.

I wish there was a way I could of got a picture of the concrete arch bridge
at Blaine (I also wished it didn't snow and rain on my travel days :-(.
Neverless, a very impressive structure.

Could someone please explain the routings of US 250, 40, Oh 7 and their
interaction with I-70 at Bridgeport/Wheeling? I could of swore I saw a East
US 250 sign with a arrow underneath it pointing west.
I take it the original bridge from Wheeling Island to Bridgeport was
retired? Though it is still standing and can be used for picture taking,
picnics, etc if you can find somewhere close by to park at (which I found
lacking)

Wheeling Island looks very depressing. A lack of commercial (and
industrial) property. It looks like suburbia gone derelict. Mainland
Wheeling, on the other hand, looks livable (at least in rain). It looks
depressed (it doesn't look like Columbus), but it doesn't look abandoned
(see Zanesville). Again rain preempted me from taking a picture from the
high point (there is a sign about someone's leap) of the US 40 horseshoe.
Nothing like a good vista.

At the bottom of that hill (between Oak Grove and Wheeling?), I was running
out of time and had to jump on I-70 and continued to Pittsburgh in qualified
time mode.

I-70 to Washington (Pa)- been there, done that. Nothing new.
I-79 north - interesting that it's signed 55 MPH from about halfway between
US 22/30 and Washington north past the other end of I-279. Someone care to
explain?

Parkway West - it shows it's age. Nice to know which RR bridges were owned
by which RR.
Any chance the Ft. Pitt bridge can be triple decked for traffic continuality
purposes? BTW, is that stop sign for traffic from I-376 WB to I-279 SB?

Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.

We know I-579 starts/ends at I-279. It's other end point is.....?

Why is Liberty Bridge the only bridge with overhead lane markers (LED?)?
Also, I've never seen an electronic BGS before (or should I call this one a
Big Multi-colored overhead sign) till SB on the Liberty Bridge

A most interesting exit configuration for I-79 at Pa 65 and 51 (the Ohio
River interchanges)

Were there ever plans for some sort of divided highway west of Crafton? I
could of swore I saw an abandoned highway going N-S north of Pa 60, just
west of Crafton (By Charters Run).

And for Adam, my worst interchange in Pittsburgh is I-279/376/Liberty Ave
and Carson St. Too much traffic, too little room.
Honorable mention goes to I-79/I-279/US 22/ US 30. Because that should be a
full interchange and it is not.
Getting from the Airport to I-79 NB (or from I-79 SB to the Airport) should
not require the usage of a surface street, namely (Pa 60)

Info from AAG (with a special guest appearance by a former MTR regular) will
be in another post.
--
Sandor G
"I'm not from here" - President of the OSU Geography Club
"I Just live here." - Middle of Nowhere, Ohio
-- James McMurtry

"Rocks are my pillow
The cold ground my bed
Highway is my home"
-- Magic Slim

Brian Powell

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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"Denny" <De...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:fR8I4.3600$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...
I've always liked US 40 through this area. It is definitely interesting to
see how engineering technology has progressed (noticable through different
routings), plus the scenery is pretty good.

>
> It's funny, I saw plenty of old National Rd milemarkers when I was looking
> for one to take a picture of, but seldom saw one after I got the picture
> done.
>
> I guess there is a Hebron by-pass for Oh 79 (though, next map I see
showing
> it will be the first for me), and with it a business state route for the
> former routing of Oh 79. I've never seen a state business route in Ohio
(or
> anywhere else now that I think about it) before.
>
> Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing
aids).
> Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
> Columbus and Wheeling. Did get several pictures of the "Y- bridge" from
> several angles.

I must agree that Zanesville is pretty depressing. A good "urban renewal"
project would really help, but that's for another newsgroup...


>
> New Concord, on the other hand from Zanesville, looks phony, as in too
nice.
> Granted it's a college town, but easy up on the signs and the trees folks.
>
> Got several pictures of a "S-bridge" between New Concord and Cambridge.
The
> bridge is just off to the side of the present day routing and was
> incorporated into a small park with an Ohio Historical marker from
1954(!).

The bridge looks a lot better now then it did 10+ years ago. They've done a
nice job fixing it up. BTW, you forgot to mention the National Road/Zane
Grey Museum (Ohio Historical Society) west of New Concord.


>
> Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
> This doesn't mean it wasn't signed before.

Although it isn't on the current OhDOT maps (probably too small to make
sense on map), it's on my 1976 OhDOT map, and I always have remember seeing
it signed, although not on I-70.


>
> Cambridge doesn't look half bad, especially in light of it's *neighbors*
>
> Old US 40 is signed as County Rt 40A (between Fairview and Oh 800) in
> Belmont Co.
>
> Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits 202
> and 204
> The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is I-70
> itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).

Yep. The old routing of US 40 heading westbound at Exit 204 (where it joins
I-70 west) crosses an older bridge and basically just ends in the embankment
for the new I-70/US 40 routing. Also, it should be noted that the ramp from
I-70 east to US 40 is really steep. Did OhDOT get the US 40 turn sign at
the bottom of the ramp from I-70 installed? They said that they had (I
reported that it was missing and OhDOT District11 said that they dispatched
a crew to install a new one.).


>
> St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember what I
> said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing something
> right.

I hate the traffic light for a shopping center on a steep downgrade on the
west end of town. It's a very bad location and looks like an accident
waiting to happen.


>
> I wish there was a way I could of got a picture of the concrete arch
bridge
> at Blaine (I also wished it didn't snow and rain on my travel days :-(.
> Neverless, a very impressive structure.

I have some photos that I'll scan and post of the bridge that I took of the
concrete arch from the bottom. This 1932 bridge is really a site to see as
it starts at one end at ground level and is at least 100 feet tall on the
other side of the span. In it's shadow is the 1828 Blaine Hill Bridge built
as part of the National Road. When I was here in December, one of its
arches, which had collapsed, was being rebuilt (I think by the St.
Clairsville) for a bike trail.

At the bottom of the concrete arch bridge, you can turn left and head down
Belmont CR 10 to get to a good place (although muddy) for photos of both
bridges and a nice view of I-70 well above you on some cliffs.


>
> Could someone please explain the routings of US 250, 40, Oh 7 and their
> interaction with I-70 at Bridgeport/Wheeling? I could of swore I saw a
East
> US 250 sign with a arrow underneath it pointing west.
> I take it the original bridge from Wheeling Island to Bridgeport was
> retired? Though it is still standing and can be used for picture taking,
> picnics, etc if you can find somewhere close by to park at (which I found

> lacking).

Here's what I've compiled from my personal trips, maps, and the OhDOT
Traffic Count Logs.

I-70 stays on its freeway through Bridgeport.
OH 7 stays on its freeway/divided highway through Bridgeport.
US 40 stays straight heading through Bridgeport and crosses into
Wheeling (Island) WV on the older bridge north of the current I-70 bridge.
On Wheeling Island, it hops onto I-70 to get across from Wheeling Island to
Wheeling proper.
US 250 heads in from the northwest on Lincoln Avenue and joins US 40 for
the ride into WV. This is according to the OhDOT Traffic Logs. The signage
on I-70 basically just has the traffic stay eastbound on I-70 for US 250
east rather than exit to get back on in WV. (This is from memory.)
OH 7A and OH 767 also exist to join US 250, OH 7, US 40, and I-70. I'll
have to sit down with the Traffic Log and a map to plot exactly where these
two routes go.

>
> Wheeling Island looks very depressing. A lack of commercial (and
> industrial) property. It looks like suburbia gone derelict. Mainland
> Wheeling, on the other hand, looks livable (at least in rain). It looks
> depressed (it doesn't look like Columbus), but it doesn't look abandoned
> (see Zanesville). Again rain preempted me from taking a picture from the
> high point (there is a sign about someone's leap) of the US 40 horseshoe.
> Nothing like a good vista.

I've always loved the view from here.


>
> At the bottom of that hill (between Oak Grove and Wheeling?), I was
running
> out of time and had to jump on I-70 and continued to Pittsburgh in
qualified
> time mode.
>

[snip]
> Sandor G

--
Brian Powell
E-mail: ohhw...@hotmail.com
East Central States Road Guide: http://members.xoom.com/ohhwyguy/


ad...@interlog.com

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Denny wrote:

> Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
> Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
> Columbus and Wheeling.

Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))

> St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember what I
> said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing something
> right.

Perhaps by its being the county seat and consequently devoid of the
industrial/resource manacle that has strangled the rest of urban Belmont
County. Thus, it was the best "clean slate" (i.e. no depressingly difficult
brownfields, et al) location for all the regional shopping centres, et al--sort
of like a contemporary "edge city" downtown for all of metropolitan Wheeling...


Denny

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Brian Powell <ohhw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VaaI4.3616$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...

> > Got several pictures of a "S-bridge" between New Concord and Cambridge.
> > The bridge is just off to the side of the present day routing and was
> > incorporated into a small park with an Ohio Historical marker from
1954(!).
>
> The bridge looks a lot better now then it did 10+ years ago. They've done
a
> nice job fixing it up. BTW, you forgot to mention the National Road/Zane
> Grey Museum (Ohio Historical Society) west of New Concord.

I didn't mention it because I didn't stop at it (What was I going to say?
It's there!?). It does look very official though. I thought it was
privately owned as recently as 10 years ago.

On the south or northside of I-70? I don't think so, but I can't honestly
recall. It wasn't something I was trying to remember.

> > St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember what
I
> > said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing
something
> > right.
>
> I hate the traffic light for a shopping center on a steep downgrade on the
> west end of town. It's a very bad location and looks like an accident
> waiting to happen.

Sort of like Oh 61 and Oh 529 south of Mt Gilad?

> > I wish there was a way I could of got a picture of the concrete arch
> bridge
> > at Blaine (I also wished it didn't snow and rain on my travel days :-(.
> > Neverless, a very impressive structure.
>
> I have some photos that I'll scan and post of the bridge that I took of
the
> concrete arch from the bottom. This 1932 bridge is really a site to see
as
> it starts at one end at ground level and is at least 100 feet tall on the
> other side of the span. In it's shadow is the 1828 Blaine Hill Bridge
built
> as part of the National Road. When I was here in December, one of its
> arches, which had collapsed, was being rebuilt (I think by the St.
> Clairsville) for a bike trail.

Which bridge was being fixed? The 1932 or the 1828 version? The one not
being ulilized by US 40 nowadays looked to be still under construction.

> At the bottom of the concrete arch bridge, you can turn left and head down
> Belmont CR 10 to get to a good place (although muddy) for photos of both
> bridges and a nice view of I-70 well above you on some cliffs.

I must have not gone down far enough, plus the rain didn't make me want to
expose my cameras

Where is Oh 767 and Oh Alt 7?

I also forgot to mention on WB US 40, in Bridgeport, there is a traffic
light that has 2 red lenses and then a yellow and green underneith it. It
looks like a 'T'
Also got several pics of the Wheeling Supension bridge (from Wheeling Island
to Wheeling), though none of them are what I would call spectacular. :-(


> --
> Brian Powell
> E-mail: ohhw...@hotmail.com
> East Central States Road Guide: http://members.xoom.com/ohhwyguy/

--

Denny

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:W3bI4.6623$YB4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
> news:20000409222130...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> > >Actually, they thought PA 60 was going to be an EXPWY through there.
> > >
> >
> > DOH! I had that typed then deleted it since it seemed to unrealistic.
>
> Well, with all our never built highways, it's easy to make an error every
> now and then. :-P
>
> Now once I get a list a page could be in the works
>
So run this by me again.
What did I see near Crafton/Charters Run? Abandoned freeway? Long lost
Road? Other?
The Pa 60 freeway. Was this in addition to or an alternate plan from the
current system?

> >
> > Jeff Kitsko
> > Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
> > Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html

Peter Rosa

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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ad...@interlog.com wrote:

>
> Denny wrote:
>
> > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
> > Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
> > Columbus and Wheeling.
>
> Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
> find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
> curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
> whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
> the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
> almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
> trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))

You'll see a few frozen-in-time cities like that in Connecticut too.
Ansonia, Norwich, Putnam and Willimantic more or less fit that
description, having become largely de-industrialized without quite
turning into slums (though parts of Willimantic are a bit skanky). And
today's New York Times had a lengthy article about Buffalo, which is a
still rather large city that has gone into a sort of suspended
animation.

--
Peter Rosa
PR...@prodigy.net
pros...@yahoo.com
R32...@aol.com

Denny

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000409203603...@ng-ch1.aol.com...

> >BTW, is that stop sign for traffic from I-376 WB to I-279 SB?
>
> Never noticed one, unless you mean for the onramp from Stanwix Street.

Stanwix St. would make sense, though it is real close to I-376

> >Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.
>

> I think it used to, when 380 came to the Ft. Pitt Bridge onramps. I
noticed
> the signs years ago, then looked at a map from then and didn't see it
marked.
> Some aux routes go unmarked on PennDOT maps though.

You think it used to?!? Does that mean it may still exist or did PennDOT or
Pittsburgh throw up some signs for the hell of it? :-)

> Jeff Kitsko
> Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
> Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html

You still planning on coming out to OSU for the weather extravaganza 3 weeks
from Monday?

Denny

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:9L9I4.6479$YB4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...


> > Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits
202
> > and 204
> > The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is
I-70
> > itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).
>

> Which exit is the one where US 40 gets off of I-70 that the one that goes
> straight into the hill and not curves like the one in yours and mark's
site

Exit 202 gets you to the end point on Marc's site.
Exit 204 gets you to the end point that goes stright into I-70 (the one
you're talking about)
I'm thinking of breaking of some rough drawings of that area and of Oh
158/I-70 for Marc to add to those pics

> > Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.
>

> You get pics>??? Love to have any PA pics you got on my page

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it may be awhile. No scanner (at this
time), and I have a bunch for Marc & my site first to do.

> > Were there ever plans for some sort of divided highway west of Crafton?
I
> > could of swore I saw an abandoned highway going N-S north of Pa 60, just
> > west of Crafton (By Charters Run).
>

> Yes there was it was to be a PA 60 Expwy fromthe Robison Towne Centre
area
> to I-79 that is the reason for the lack of a complete interchange with
> I-79/279...not sure if this is what you are talking about there was a
thread
> a while back about an abandoned connector road in the Crafton area which
is
> the complete opposite of the PA 60 Expwy

Who? what? where? What I was talking about was east of I-79 by 5-6 miles.

Michael G. Koerner

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Apr 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/9/00
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"James C. Schul" wrote:

>
> Brian Powell wrote:
>
> > I must agree that Zanesville is pretty depressing. A good "urban renewal"
> > project would really help, but that's for another newsgroup...
>
> An article a few months back in the Dayton Daily News singled out
> Zanesville as one of the towns where people are actually moving downtown
> to live.

Knowing what I know of Zanesville, it is likely the cheap rents that are
drawing people in. Also, is Zanesville within 'commuting' distance of Columbus?

BTW, speaking of Zanesville, is this bridge over the former I-70/US 40
crossover at Kirkersvile, OH (between Zanesville and Columbus, OH) still there?

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=453&Y=5529&Z=17&W=2

This bridge appears to carry a minor crossroad (dead-ended when the
current I-70 was built) over the former crossover (now a local road).

--
____________________________________________________________________________
Regards,

Michael G. Koerner
Appleton, WI

***NOTICE*** SPAMfilter in use, please remove ALL 'i's from the return
address to reply. ***NOTICE***
____________________________________________________________________________

Jeff Kitsko

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
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>I-70 to Washington (Pa)- been there, done that. Nothing new.
>I-79 north - interesting that it's signed 55 MPH from about halfway between
>US 22/30 and Washington north past the other end of I-279. Someone care to
>explain?

Cause it is a "metro area." The Turnpike is 55 from Exit 4 or 5 to 6 even
though there is nothing there.

>Any chance the Ft. Pitt bridge can be triple decked for traffic continuality
>purposes?

HA! It is bad enough that we will be losing the only major link to the west
and airport for reconstruction, let alone adding another deck.

>BTW, is that stop sign for traffic from I-376 WB to I-279 SB?

Never noticed one, unless you mean for the onramp from Stanwix Street.

>Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.

I think it used to, when 380 came to the Ft. Pitt Bridge onramps. I noticed


the signs years ago, then looked at a map from then and didn't see it marked.
Some aux routes go unmarked on PennDOT maps though.

>We know I-579 starts/ends at I-279. It's other end point is.....?

Beginning of the Liberty Bridge.

>Why is Liberty Bridge the only bridge with overhead lane markers (LED?)?

Cause it, aside from the Vets Bridge, is the only major bridge with one deck.
They are also on the 6th Street, I mean, Roberto Clemente Bridge. They might
be on the 7th and 9th as well.

>And for Adam, my worst interchange in Pittsburgh is I-279/376/Liberty Ave
>and Carson St.

My votes are for the ends of the Fort Pitt and Duquense Bridges....not enough
room for 2 lanes from each direction merging and diverging.

>Honorable mention goes to I-79/I-279/US 22/ US 30. Because that should be a
>full interchange and it is not.
>Getting from the Airport to I-79 NB (or from I-79 SB to the Airport) should
>not require the usage of a surface street, namely (Pa 60)

KDKA ran a segment about the missing links, and at the time PA 60 was hardly
utilized so the Dept of Hwys decided to put the ramp to 22/30 there.

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
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>
> New Concord, on the other hand from Zanesville, looks phony, as in too
nice.
> Granted it's a college town, but easy up on the signs and the trees folks.

My sister attends there

> Got several pictures of a "S-bridge" between New Concord and Cambridge.
The
> bridge is just off to the side of the present day routing and was
> incorporated into a small park with an Ohio Historical marker from
1954(!).
>
> Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
> This doesn't mean it wasn't signed before.
>
> Cambridge doesn't look half bad, especially in light of it's *neighbors*
>
> Old US 40 is signed as County Rt 40A (between Fairview and Oh 800) in
> Belmont Co.
>
> Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits 202
> and 204
> The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is I-70
> itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).

Which exit is the one where US 40 gets off of I-70 that the one that goes


straight into the hill and not curves like the one in yours and mark's site
>

> Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.

You get pics>??? Love to have any PA pics you got on my page

>


> We know I-579 starts/ends at I-279. It's other end point is.....?

The traffic light at 5th Ave(?).

>
> Why is Liberty Bridge the only bridge with overhead lane markers (LED?)?

These are new result of the SPUI on the other side of the tunnel

> Also, I've never seen an electronic BGS before (or should I call this one
a
> Big Multi-colored overhead sign) till SB on the Liberty Bridge
>
> A most interesting exit configuration for I-79 at Pa 65 and 51 (the Ohio
> River interchanges)
>
> Were there ever plans for some sort of divided highway west of Crafton? I
> could of swore I saw an abandoned highway going N-S north of Pa 60, just
> west of Crafton (By Charters Run).

Yes there was it was to be a PA 60 Expwy fromthe Robison Towne Centre area


to I-79 that is the reason for the lack of a complete interchange with
I-79/279...not sure if this is what you are talking about there was a thread
a while back about an abandoned connector road in the Crafton area which is
the complete opposite of the PA 60 Expwy

>

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000409203603...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >I-70 to Washington (Pa)- been there, done that. Nothing new.
> >I-79 north - interesting that it's signed 55 MPH from about halfway
between
> >US 22/30 and Washington north past the other end of I-279. Someone care
to
> >explain?
>
> Cause it is a "metro area." The Turnpike is 55 from Exit 4 or 5 to 6 even
> though there is nothing there.
>
> >Any chance the Ft. Pitt bridge can be triple decked for traffic
continuality
> >purposes?
>
> HA! It is bad enough that we will be losing the only major link to the
west
> and airport for reconstruction, let alone adding another deck.
>
> >BTW, is that stop sign for traffic from I-376 WB to I-279 SB?
>
> Never noticed one, unless you mean for the onramp from Stanwix Street.
>
> >Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.
>
> I think it used to, when 380 came to the Ft. Pitt Bridge onramps. I
noticed
> the signs years ago, then looked at a map from then and didn't see it
marked.
> Some aux routes go unmarked on PennDOT maps though.
>
> >We know I-579 starts/ends at I-279. It's other end point is.....?
>
> Beginning of the Liberty Bridge.
>
> >Why is Liberty Bridge the only bridge with overhead lane markers (LED?)?
>
> Cause it, aside from the Vets Bridge, is the only major bridge with one
deck.
> They are also on the 6th Street, I mean, Roberto Clemente Bridge. They
might
> be on the 7th and 9th as well.
>
> >And for Adam, my worst interchange in Pittsburgh is I-279/376/Liberty Ave
> >and Carson St.
>
> My votes are for the ends of the Fort Pitt and Duquense Bridges....not
enough
> room for 2 lanes from each direction merging and diverging.
>
> >Honorable mention goes to I-79/I-279/US 22/ US 30. Because that should
be a
> >full interchange and it is not.
> >Getting from the Airport to I-79 NB (or from I-79 SB to the Airport)
should
> >not require the usage of a surface street, namely (Pa 60)
>
> KDKA ran a segment about the missing links, and at the time PA 60 was
hardly
> utilized so the Dept of Hwys decided to put the ramp to 22/30 there.

Actually, they thought PA 60 was going to be an EXPWY through there.

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

>
> >
> > Why is Liberty Bridge the only bridge with overhead lane markers (LED?)?
>
> These are new result of the SPUI on the other side of the tunnel
>
> > Also, I've never seen an electronic BGS before (or should I call this
one
> a
> > Big Multi-colored overhead sign) till SB on the Liberty Bridge

Oops i meant this sign is a result of the SPUI on the opposite end of the
tunnel. It was first turned on in June of 1999

> >
> > A most interesting exit configuration for I-79 at Pa 65 and 51 (the Ohio
> > River interchanges)

The best is the PA 65 interchange, i would oove to see that on the HFoftheW

Jeff Kitsko

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
>Actually, they thought PA 60 was going to be an EXPWY through there.
>

DOH! I had that typed then deleted it since it seemed to unrealistic.

Jeff Kitsko

Jeff Kitsko

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
>These are new result of the SPUI on the other side of the tunnel
>

Adam, I think you have been gone too long from PA. We don't have SPUIs here,
SPDIs yes :).

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000409222312...@ng-ch1.aol.com...

> >These are new result of the SPUI on the other side of the tunnel
> >
>
> Adam, I think you have been gone too long from PA. We don't have SPUIs
here,
> SPDIs yes :).

True being in NC, a big-SPUI state, I learned how to correct some of my
PennDotese (SPDI) ;-P

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000409222130...@ng-ch1.aol.com...

> >Actually, they thought PA 60 was going to be an EXPWY through there.
> >
>
> DOH! I had that typed then deleted it since it seemed to unrealistic.

Well, with all our never built highways, it's easy to make an error every
now and then. :-P

Now once I get a list a page could be in the works


>

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Denny <De...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:utbI4.3622$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...

> Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:W3bI4.6623$YB4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> >
> > Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
> > news:20000409222130...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> > > >Actually, they thought PA 60 was going to be an EXPWY through there.
> > > >
> > >
> > > DOH! I had that typed then deleted it since it seemed to unrealistic.
> >
> > Well, with all our never built highways, it's easy to make an error
every
> > now and then. :-P
> >
> > Now once I get a list a page could be in the works
> >
> So run this by me again.
> What did I see near Crafton/Charters Run? Abandoned freeway? Long lost
> Road? Other?

Not dsure I never saw it...You saw it from I-79 right? East or West hand
side.

> The Pa 60 freeway. Was this in addition to or an alternate plan from the
> current system?

It was part of the original plan of the system...scratched I am not sure
when

Get any PA pics by the way sorry about calling you your father's
name....that means I haveto change the name on my submitted page..hey a
chance to correct typos as well..-=)


> > >
> > > Jeff Kitsko
> > > Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
> > > Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html
>

Bob Johnson

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:59:16 -0400, Peter Rosa <PR...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>
>ad...@interlog.com wrote:


>>
>> Denny wrote:
>>
>> > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
>> > Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
>> > Columbus and Wheeling.
>>

>> Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
>> find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
>> curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
>> whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
>> the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
>> almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
>> trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))
>
>You'll see a few frozen-in-time cities like that in Connecticut too.
>Ansonia, Norwich, Putnam and Willimantic more or less fit that
>description, having become largely de-industrialized without quite
>turning into slums (though parts of Willimantic are a bit skanky). And
>today's New York Times had a lengthy article about Buffalo, which is a
>still rather large city that has gone into a sort of suspended
>animation.

In fact, take all the NYS cities between Albany and Buffalo and some
variation of the same story can be told.

The NYTimes cites high taxes and maybe the long cold winters as being
major contributory factors (along with a lack of immigrants to boost
population). I think both are important, but I think there is
something missing in the "establishment" or money classes -- some dire
lack of entrepreneurship or initiative.

Of course, all the cities that used to thrive on relatively high-wage
blue collar employment have lost a lot of ground, but some have
managed their decline or stasis better than the NYS cities.

Bob Johnson

Jeff Kitsko

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
> Now once I get a list a page could be in the works

I had thought about focusing on Pittsburgh's highway system after the core of
the state is done. Maybe Pittsburgh Highways, a division of Pennsylvania
Highways :-).

James C. Schul

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
> I guess there is a Hebron by-pass for Oh 79 (though, next map I see showing
> it will be the first for me), and with it a business state route for the
> former routing of Oh 79. I've never seen a state business route in Ohio (or
> anywhere else now that I think about it) before.

I believe it is marked with a white background, and the OH 79 marker is
green with white numbers. I saw it on OH 79 north of I-70 two years
ago, but there aren't any such markers where Main St./US 40 intersects
it. This "Business OH 79" designation comprises Hebron Road and High
Street.

Similar markers are found on Business OH 7 in Middleport and Pomeroy,
although one of them has a green background sign with a white Ohio
silhouette and green numbers. (Sorry, I can't remember which was
which.)


> Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
> This doesn't mean it wasn't signed before.

On EB US 22/40 upon entering Guernsey County from Muskingum there is a
distance sign for OH 723 (6 miles) and Cambridge (8). However, the
BGS's on I-70 have yet to update them; the proper signage should be the
following: "(OH 723) TO (US 22) (US 40)/Cambridge".

> Could someone please explain the routings of US 250, 40, Oh 7 and their
> interaction with I-70 at Bridgeport/Wheeling? I could of swore I saw a East
> US 250 sign with a arrow underneath it pointing west.
> I take it the original bridge from Wheeling Island to Bridgeport was
> retired? Though it is still standing and can be used for picture taking,
> picnics, etc if you can find somewhere close by to park at (which I found
> lacking)

On a recent edition of the Rand McNally StreetFinder Deluxe I discovered
that an OH 767 exists in the Bridgeport area around US 40 and I-70.
However, it is not marked on my Belmont County map. According to the
Bridgeport "blowup" Alt OH 7 runs WB on National Rd./US 40 for 3 blocks
after OH 7, then it runs south on Marion St. for 3 more blocks, then EB
on Howard St. for 3 more blocks, then ends at OH 7. When I was on this
part of US 40 last year I saw neither an OH 767 nor an Alt OH 7 sign.

About your 7/40/70/250 question: US 250 and OH 7 run together north of
I-70, then when they meet at Exit 225 US 250 runs with I-70 into WV
until it reaches Exit 1B. US 40 runs north of all this.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ James C. Schul +
+ JCS...@worldnet.att.net +
+ http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2153 +
+ Dayton, Ohio, USA +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

James C. Schul

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
Brian Powell wrote:

> I must agree that Zanesville is pretty depressing. A good "urban renewal"
> project would really help, but that's for another newsgroup...

An article a few months back in the Dayton Daily News singled out


Zanesville as one of the towns where people are actually moving downtown
to live.

Greg Pacek - CrazyOne

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
In article <VP9I4.6489$YB4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> > >
> > > A most interesting exit configuration for I-79 at Pa 65 and 51 (the Ohio
> > > River interchanges)
>

> The best is the PA 65 interchange, i would oove to see that on the HFoftheW

I live about 2 miles in towards Pittsburgh from that interchange (South
on PA 65, in Emsworth, which is signed at that exit). The interchange
has two 180-degree U-turns in it. ;-) The rest gets off being less
complicated because it uses a surface road. Here's the deal: you're
fine if you're heading south on I-79 from either northbound or
southbound PA 65, and fine if you want to head either direction on PA
65 exiting from northbound I-79. If you exit for PA 65 from southbound
I-79, however, or wish to travel north on I-79 from PA 65, you must use
a surface road including a stop sign or two. (Actually, northbound PA
65 to northbound I-79 gets a "Stop except right turn" and you need to
go right, so you don't have to quite stop, but it's still a 25mph road
for a mile or a bit less, smack in the middle of Kilbuck Township
speedtrap city. ;-)

Never ever speed on PA 65 between I-79 and Emsworth. Stick to the
45mph limit, cos the Kilbuck guys *will* get you. (The cops come out
all over PA 65, but that section is bad because there's nothing there,
makes you more likely to speed, and the cops are there so often. It's
the most notiorious speed trap in the area, and you'll notice the
locals sticking it at 45 there mostly.) Neighboring Ohio Township is
also bad, and they all kind of cooperate. Ohio Township provides
police for Emsworth. Kilbuck provides it for the next borough south of
here on 65, Ben Avon. Avalon and Bellevue get in on the act a bit as
well, but not as much as the other guys. After that you're in the City
of Pittsburgh, and the city's got better things to do than stop
speeders, it seems.

--
craz...@city-net.com | "I say what it occurs to me to say
Greg Pacek | when I think I hear people say
Pittsburgh, PA, USA, Earth | things. More I cannot say."

Michael G. Koerner

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
Bob Johnson wrote:
>
> On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:59:16 -0400, Peter Rosa <PR...@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >ad...@interlog.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Denny wrote:
> >>
> >> > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
> >> > Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
> >> > Columbus and Wheeling.
> >>
> >> Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
> >> find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
> >> curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
> >> whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
> >> the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
> >> almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
> >> trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))
> >
> >You'll see a few frozen-in-time cities like that in Connecticut too.
> >Ansonia, Norwich, Putnam and Willimantic more or less fit that
> >description, having become largely de-industrialized without quite
> >turning into slums (though parts of Willimantic are a bit skanky). And
> >today's New York Times had a lengthy article about Buffalo, which is a
> >still rather large city that has gone into a sort of suspended
> >animation.
>
> In fact, take all the NYS cities between Albany and Buffalo and some
> variation of the same story can be told.
>
> The NYTimes cites high taxes and maybe the long cold winters as being
> major contributory factors (along with a lack of immigrants to boost
> population). I think both are important, but I think there is
> something missing in the "establishment" or money classes -- some dire
> lack of entrepreneurship or initiative.
>
> Of course, all the cities that used to thrive on relatively high-wage
> blue collar employment have lost a lot of ground, but some have
> managed their decline or stasis better than the NYS cities.

Would the ability to annex territory (like cities in most 'sun belt' and
midwest states, plus North Carolina) help the situations of the cities
in NYS and Pennsylvania? Some of the cities in both states cover
AMAZINGLY tiny portions of their respective metro areas (some so small
as to be considered little more than 'afterthoughts').

Greg Pacek - CrazyOne

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
In article <20000409203603...@ng-ch1.aol.com>, Jeff Kitsko
<jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote:

> >BTW, is that stop sign for traffic from I-376 WB to I-279 SB?
>

> Never noticed one, unless you mean for the onramp from Stanwix Street.

Might be the onramp from Liberty, where they just put up a new set of
stop signs after finishing the ramp reconstruction. I don't recall
with the onramp from Stanwix looks like off hand. The Liberty ramp
used to be a yield, I believe. Now it's supposed to stop I guess to
better facilitate the traffic from the Fort Duquesne Bridge. God that
whole situation is a total mess.

ad...@interlog.com

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
Peter Rosa wrote:

> ad...@interlog.com wrote:


> >
> > Denny wrote:
> >
> > > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
> > > Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
> > > Columbus and Wheeling.
> >

> > Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
> > find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
> > curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
> > whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
> > the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
> > almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
> > trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))
>
> You'll see a few frozen-in-time cities like that in Connecticut too.
> Ansonia, Norwich, Putnam and Willimantic more or less fit that
> description, having become largely de-industrialized without quite
> turning into slums (though parts of Willimantic are a bit skanky). And
> today's New York Times had a lengthy article about Buffalo, which is a
> still rather large city that has gone into a sort of suspended
> animation.

But Buffalo's a bit different, and not just for its size--there, you *do* find the
characteristically "postwar" vast, ominous, spreading swaths of ghettos and urban
blight, and white-flight satellites like Amherst and Cheektowaga...


ad...@interlog.com

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
"Michael G. Koerner" wrote:

> "James C. Schul" wrote:
> >
> > Brian Powell wrote:
> >

> > > I must agree that Zanesville is pretty depressing. A good "urban renewal"
> > > project would really help, but that's for another newsgroup...
> >

> > An article a few months back in the Dayton Daily News singled out
> > Zanesville as one of the towns where people are actually moving downtown
> > to live.
>

> Knowing what I know of Zanesville, it is likely the cheap rents that are
> drawing people in. Also, is Zanesville within 'commuting' distance of Columbus?

I'd believe it. Being cheap, "old urban", a sort of incipient commuter satellite,
and--shall I say it--*historic* (and, as we know, stagnation has a way of
preserving), Zanesville has the tools for potential revival--and perhaps, with a
yuppie-artsy edge a la Hoboken as a drawing factor? I'd prefer that subtle
ground-up approach to Zanesville's revival rather than heavy-handed "urban
renewal". (Wheeling has similar potential.) We really need more Hobokens, you
know...


Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Denny <De...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:hGbI4.3625$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...

>
>
> Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:9L9I4.6479$YB4.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> > > Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits
> 202
> > > and 204
> > > The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is
> I-70
> > > itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).
> >
> > Which exit is the one where US 40 gets off of I-70 that the one that
goes
> > straight into the hill and not curves like the one in yours and mark's
> site
>
> Exit 202 gets you to the end point on Marc's site.
> Exit 204 gets you to the end point that goes stright into I-70 (the one
> you're talking about)
> I'm thinking of breaking of some rough drawings of that area and of Oh
> 158/I-70 for Marc to add to those pics
>
> > > Does Pa Alt 380 exist? I saw 3 of those signs on 10th St.
> >
> > You get pics>??? Love to have any PA pics you got on my page
>
> Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it may be awhile. No scanner (at
this
> time), and I have a bunch for Marc & my site first to do.
>
> > > Were there ever plans for some sort of divided highway west of
Crafton?
> I

> > > could of swore I saw an abandoned highway going N-S north of Pa 60,
just
> > > west of Crafton (By Charters Run).
> >
> > Yes there was it was to be a PA 60 Expwy fromthe Robison Towne Centre
> area
> > to I-79 that is the reason for the lack of a complete interchange with
> > I-79/279...not sure if this is what you are talking about there was a
> thread
> > a while back about an abandoned connector road in the Crafton area which
> is
> > the complete opposite of the PA 60 Expwy
>
> Who? what? where? What I was talking about was east of I-79 by 5-6 miles.


Then that would be a 4 lane connector highway covered by a thread in here
about 2 years ago. Bruce, can ya help me out on this.

It was some kind of industrial complex highway I believe,.

Adam Prince

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
Oohhh more links to the project I like...

hmmm thinking if once you get the site up if it would be easier for you to
host the site...since I am in NC

Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message

news:20000409235729...@ng-cg1.aol.com...

Denny

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
Michael G. Koerner <mgk...@dataex.com> wrote in message
news:38F15F9D...@dataex.com...

> "James C. Schul" wrote:
> >
> > Brian Powell wrote:
> >
> > > I must agree that Zanesville is pretty depressing. A good "urban
renewal"
> > > project would really help, but that's for another newsgroup...
> >
> > An article a few months back in the Dayton Daily News singled out
> > Zanesville as one of the towns where people are actually moving downtown
> > to live.
>
> Knowing what I know of Zanesville, it is likely the cheap rents that are
> drawing people in. Also, is Zanesville within 'commuting' distance of
Columbus?

It is, in a extreme sense. It is about 55 miles from downtown Zanesville to
downtown Columbus. About the same if someone from Mansfield, Springfield,
or Chilacothe drove to Columbus.

> BTW, speaking of Zanesville, is this bridge over the former I-70/US 40
> crossover at Kirkersvile, OH (between Zanesville and Columbus, OH) still
there?
>
> http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=453&Y=5529&Z=17&W=2
>
> This bridge appears to carry a minor crossroad (dead-ended when the
> current I-70 was built) over the former crossover (now a local road).

Yeah, that bridge is still there. Will continue to stand as long as that
house (at the end of the road) by I-70 still stands. The bridge might be in
the background of one of my pictures, but it wasn't an intended target of
mine.

> --
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> Regards,
>
> Michael G. Koerner
> Appleton, WI
>
> ***NOTICE*** SPAMfilter in use, please remove ALL 'i's from the return
> address to reply. ***NOTICE***
>
____________________________________________________________________________

Bruce Harper

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
In article <AGiI4.7235$YB4.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> > > > Were there ever plans for some sort of divided highway west of
> Crafton?
> > I
> > > > could of swore I saw an abandoned highway going N-S north of Pa 60,
> just
> > > > west of Crafton (By Charters Run).
> > >
> > > Yes there was it was to be a PA 60 Expwy fromthe Robison Towne Centre
> > area
> > > to I-79 that is the reason for the lack of a complete interchange with
> > > I-79/279...not sure if this is what you are talking about there was a
> > thread
> > > a while back about an abandoned connector road in the Crafton area which
> > is
> > > the complete opposite of the PA 60 Expwy
> >
> > Who? what? where? What I was talking about was east of I-79 by 5-6 miles.
>
>
> Then that would be a 4 lane connector highway covered by a thread in here
> about 2 years ago. Bruce, can ya help me out on this.
>
> It was some kind of industrial complex highway I believe,.

You didn't specify which Bruce, so I'll pop in here. If the road is
where I think it is, then is is/was the "industrial complex highway"
that was discussed before. It has a companion four-lanes-to-nowhere
section at the other end, in McKees Rocks along Chartiers Creek.

To qualify this, I am picturing this location as being along PA 60 as
one heads toward Crafton from the I-79 interchange. After crossing
the Thornburg Bridge over Chartiers Creek and the PA/Penn Central/PC&Y
railroad tracks, a look to the left is where the highway is located. I
seem to remember there was somewhat of an industrical park down
in there also.

I remember the discussion, but don't remember if the road was planned
to go anywhere other than to connect W. Carson Street with the
Steubenville Pike/PA 60.

Bruce in Blacksburg (but a native of the 'Burgh)

Bruce Harper

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Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
In article <fR8I4.3600$t_3....@cletus.bright.net>, Denny
<De...@bright.net> wrote:

> A most interesting exit configuration for I-79 at Pa 65 and 51 (the Ohio
> River interchanges)

Topography and politics were in heavy play when that section of I-79
was designed and built.

On the north shore of the Ohio River was the boro of Glenfield, tucked
along Ohio River Blvd. and up a hollow along Glenfield Road. The
creek in the hollow provided a natural break in the hills that line that
section of the river. That break provided a natural path for I-79 to
follow, minimizing the cut that would be needed to reach the river.
It is a narrow hollow, so there was a bit of earthmoving that was
needed and the engineers had to be creative with where the ramps
went. Unfortunately, most of Glenfield was wiped out in the
process.

On the south shore of the Ohio, on the Back Channel of the river, there
was another natural break in the ridge line, which the engineers also
used to reach the river. However, this one wasn't quite as neately laid
out, which is why the northbound and southbound lanes are separated
by width and elevation. It is also why there is that hideous set of
S-curves on the northbound lanes before one reaches the PA 51
interchange. Again, things were a little tight around the interchange,
so there was only limited access planned. In fact, in the initial
construction, one could only get on I-79 southbound from PA 51 and only
exit to PA 51 from I-79 northbound. The ramp from PA 51 to I-79
northbound was added later, when weight restrictions were placed on
the Coraopolis-Neville Island Bridge.

When the plans were finally revealed for the Ohio River crossing, the
bridge was to be a straight shot across Neville Island, with no ramps
whatsoever. Since Neville Island was still active with a number of
large and small industries (Dravo, PDM, Shenango, Gulf, Neville
Chemical, Matlack, and a number of truck terminals), there was a bit
of an outcry about the lack of access to the interstate. The bridge was
redesigned from shore to shore to include an off-ramp to the Island
from I-79 northbound and I-79 southbound (which also provides access to
PA 51 from either end of the Island), plus on-ramps to both directions
of I-79. In the scheme of things, the extra expense was a good
investment, since I-79 has provided alternative access to Neville
Island. At one time, the Fleming Park Bridge was closed for an extended
period after a tanker truck overturned and burned, damaging part of
the bridge structure. The Coraopolis-Neville Island Bridge also had a
3-ton weight limit imposed (and it was closed for parts of the year)
until the replacement bridge was opened. Of course, the I-79 bridge
was closed for a while not long after it opened when a crack was
discovered in one of the beams in the Back Channel part of the bridge.
The discovery lead to an investigation into the type of welding used to
fabricate the beams (I don't remember which process, though) and
the qualifications of the inspectors (or the lack of qualifications) who
signed off on the welds. For some odd reason, when PennDOT shut
down the bridge, it closed I-79 in Cranberry instead of at Glenfield,
creating great inconvenience for all. It was a number of months before
the bridge was repaired and declared safe.

Bob Johnson

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:06:45 -0500, "Michael G. Koerner"
<mgk...@dataex.com> wrote:

>Bob Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 22:59:16 -0400, Peter Rosa <PR...@prodigy.net>

>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >ad...@interlog.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Denny wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).
>> >> > Don't know how it ended up looking the worst of all the towns between
>> >> > Columbus and Wheeling.
>> >>
>> >> Relative size, age, all that business--it's almost more akin to something you'd
>> >> find in Pennsylvania than in Ohio. And like Terre Haute, it's in that rare and
>> >> curious category (usually related to mining belts, etc) of Midwestern cities
>> >> whose economies appear as if they into terminal autopilot right after WWII, at
>> >> the very least...thus even what passes for "blight" seems very old-worldy,
>> >> almost evoking lovable hoboes more than the standard crackheads or scary white
>> >> trash. (Well, at least I *wish*;-))
>> >
>> >You'll see a few frozen-in-time cities like that in Connecticut too.
>> >Ansonia, Norwich, Putnam and Willimantic more or less fit that
>> >description, having become largely de-industrialized without quite
>> >turning into slums (though parts of Willimantic are a bit skanky). And
>> >today's New York Times had a lengthy article about Buffalo, which is a
>> >still rather large city that has gone into a sort of suspended
>> >animation.
>>

>> In fact, take all the NYS cities between Albany and Buffalo and some
>> variation of the same story can be told.
>>
>> The NYTimes cites high taxes and maybe the long cold winters as being
>> major contributory factors (along with a lack of immigrants to boost
>> population). I think both are important, but I think there is
>> something missing in the "establishment" or money classes -- some dire
>> lack of entrepreneurship or initiative.
>>
>> Of course, all the cities that used to thrive on relatively high-wage
>> blue collar employment have lost a lot of ground, but some have
>> managed their decline or stasis better than the NYS cities.
>
>Would the ability to annex territory (like cities in most 'sun belt' and
>midwest states, plus North Carolina) help the situations of the cities
>in NYS and Pennsylvania? Some of the cities in both states cover
>AMAZINGLY tiny portions of their respective metro areas (some so small
>as to be considered little more than 'afterthoughts').

It may be too late for many of them. I think it's pretty clear that
an annexation rule would have been a good thing in the past.

As a footnote, Philadelphia could and did annex territory, but the
annexation rights stopped at the county line, which is where the land
growth ended, so Philadelphia City = Philadelphia County.

I wonder if the sunbelt annexation cities have such a limit?

Jeff Kitsko

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
>You think it used to?!? Does that mean it may still exist or did PennDOT or
>Pittsburgh throw up some signs for the hell of it? :-)

I doubt it exists since PA 380 was truncated at I 579 after it was finished
IIRC. But who knows with PennDOT.

>You still planning on coming out to OSU for the weather extravaganza 3 weeks
>from Monday?

Can't, my Physics prof decided to have a test during that time.

Peter Rosa

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
[Would the ability to annex territory (like cities in most 'sun

belt' and midwest states, plus North Carolina) help the
situations of the cities in NYS and Pennsylvania? Some of
the cities in both states cover AMAZINGLY tiny portions of their
respective metro areas (some so small as to be considered little
more than 'afterthoughts').]

Not much, at least in the case of upstate New York. I don't know
quite enough about Pennsylvania to comment on that state. It's
not as if the cities in upstate New York are impoverished cores
surrounded by prosperous, job-filled suburbs. What you have
instead is an entire region that suffers from a persistent
economic (and even "spiritual") malaise. If anything, what would
help upstate is making it a separate state, so it no longer would
be the unloved stepchild of New York State (breaths should not be
held, needless to say).

--
Peter Rosa
pros...@yahoo.com
PR...@prodigy.net
R32...@aol.com

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


David Jensen

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:32:18 -0700, in misc.transport.road
Peter Rosa <prosa123...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in
<06ef83c0...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com>:

>[Would the ability to annex territory (like cities in most 'sun
>belt' and midwest states, plus North Carolina) help the
>situations of the cities in NYS and Pennsylvania? Some of
>the cities in both states cover AMAZINGLY tiny portions of their
>respective metro areas (some so small as to be considered little
>more than 'afterthoughts').]
>
>Not much, at least in the case of upstate New York. I don't know
>quite enough about Pennsylvania to comment on that state. It's
>not as if the cities in upstate New York are impoverished cores
>surrounded by prosperous, job-filled suburbs. What you have
>instead is an entire region that suffers from a persistent
>economic (and even "spiritual") malaise. If anything, what would
>help upstate is making it a separate state, so it no longer would
>be the unloved stepchild of New York State (breaths should not be
>held, needless to say).

Let's see, upstate thinks it's getting a bad deal and would like out of
the state, NYC thinks it's getting a bad deal and there have been
rumblings about leaving. The suburbs are getting a bad deal. What's
holding NYS together?

David J. Greenberger

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
"Michael G. Koerner" <mgk...@dataex.com> writes:

> BTW, speaking of Zanesville, is this bridge over the former I-70/US 40
> crossover at Kirkersvile, OH (between Zanesville and Columbus, OH)
> still there?

Indeed it is. See <URL:http://www.crosswinds.net/~grenbrgr/roads/oh.html>,
sixth picture.
--
David J. Greenberger
Department of Computer Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Marc Fannin

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
"Denny" [Sandor] <De...@bright.net> wrote:

> Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.net> wrote...
>
> > [Sandor Gulyas wrote:]


> >
> > > Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between
> > > exits 202 and 204
> > > The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of
> > > dirt* is I-70 itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).
> >
> > Which exit is the one where US 40 gets off of I-70 that the one
> > that goes straight into the hill and not curves like the one in
> > yours and mark's site
>
> Exit 202 gets you to the end point on Marc's site.
> Exit 204 gets you to the end point that goes stright into I-70 (the
> one you're talking about)
> I'm thinking of breaking of some rough drawings of that area and of Oh
> 158/I-70 for Marc to add to those pics

Exits 202 and 204:
http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/
image.asp?S=12&T=2&X=611&Y=5542&Z=17&W=2


--
Marc Fannin musx...@kent.edu
http://www.personal.kent.edu/~musxf579/home.html
Roads: http://members.xoom.com/musxf579/roadsite.html


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Marc Fannin

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
JCS...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

> On a recent edition of the Rand McNally StreetFinder Deluxe I
> discovered that an OH 767 exists in the Bridgeport area around US 40
> and I-70. However, it is not marked on my Belmont County map.
> According to the Bridgeport "blowup" Alt OH 7 runs WB on National
> Rd./US 40 for 3 blocks after OH 7, then it runs south on Marion St.
> for 3 more blocks, then EB on Howard St. for 3 more blocks, then ends
> at OH 7. When I was on this part of US 40 last year I saw neither an
> OH 767 nor an Alt OH 7 sign.

According to ODOT, 767 exists, or at least it did four years ago. See
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/
techservsite/availpro/Traffic%20Survey/bel.htm

(The main site is at
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/
techservsite/availpro/Traffic%20Survey/tsr_page.htm
It's good to use if John Simpson's site is ambiguous.)

Peter Rosa

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
[Knowing what I know of Zanesville, it is likely the cheap rents

that are drawing people in. Also, is Zanesville within
'commuting' distance of Columbus?]

Probably not much beyond an hour's drive. That seems to be
within an acceptable distance these days.
The original posting also mentioned how Wheeling, WV is somewhat
rundown, though better than Zanesville. A recent _Wall Street
Journal_ article discussed Wheeling's efforts to adjust to the
decline of its steel industry. One thing that seems to be
working fairly well is promoting the city as a low-cost suburb of
Pittsburgh. Zanesville isn't that much farther from Columbus as
Wheeling is from Pittsburgh, so maybe it can follow a similar
strategy.

Adam Prince

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Bruce Harper <bha...@vt.edu> wrote in message

<snip>

> On the south shore of the Ohio, on the Back Channel of the river, there
> was another natural break in the ridge line, which the engineers also
> used to reach the river. However, this one wasn't quite as neately laid
> out, which is why the northbound and southbound lanes are separated
> by width and elevation. It is also why there is that hideous set of
> S-curves on the northbound lanes before one reaches the PA 51
> interchange. Again, things were a little tight around the interchange,
> so there was only limited access planned. In fact, in the initial
> construction, one could only get on I-79 southbound from PA 51 and only
> exit to PA 51 from I-79 northbound. The ramp from PA 51 to I-79
> northbound was added later, when weight restrictions were placed on
> the Coraopolis-Neville Island Bridge.


I believe that was in the late 80's early 90's between 1987-1991 the ramp
was opened.


Peter Rosa

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
[[Knowing what I know of Zanesville, it is likely the cheap rents

that are drawing people in. Also, is Zanesville within
'commuting' distance of Columbus?]
[I'd believe it. Being cheap, "old urban", a sort of incipient

commuter satellite, and--shall I say it--*historic* (and, as we
know, stagnation has a way of preserving), Zanesville has the
tools for potential revival--and perhaps, with a yuppie-artsy
edge a la Hoboken as a drawing factor? I'd prefer that subtle
ground-up approach to Zanesville's revival rather than
heavy-handed "urban renewal". (Wheeling has similar potential.)
We really need more Hobokens, you know...]

Hoboken may have started out as a lower-cost alternative to
Manhattan, but it's anything but cheap nowadays. Its trendiness
means that hardly anyone with an income under six figures can
afford to live there. Now, it's highly unlikely that Zanesville
will ever become so overpriced (Columbus isn't Manhattan, and
Zanesville's a lot farther away than Hoboken is from Manhattan),
but it wouldn't be surprising if some day the town becomes far
less of a bargain. We might start hearing about how the children
of long-time Zanesville residents can no longer afford to live in
town. I'm not saying that's bad - just about anything beats
stagnation, let alone decline - but only that there are two sides
to any city's revival.

Adam Prince

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to

Bruce Harper <bha...@vt.edu> wrote in message
>
> You didn't specify which Bruce, so I'll pop in here. If the road is
> where I think it is, then is is/was the "industrial complex highway"
> that was discussed before. It has a companion four-lanes-to-nowhere
> section at the other end, in McKees Rocks along Chartiers Creek.


Well I figured if I just said Bruce with 2 of yunz from or formerly from the
area, I would increase my odds of getting a reply ;)

Brian Powell

unread,
Apr 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/10/00
to
"Denny" <De...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:fnbI4.3621$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...
> Brian Powell <ohhw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:VaaI4.3616$t_3....@cletus.bright.net...
> > > Got several pictures of a "S-bridge" between New Concord and
Cambridge.
> > > The bridge is just off to the side of the present day routing and was
> > > incorporated into a small park with an Ohio Historical marker from
> 1954(!).
> >
> > The bridge looks a lot better now then it did 10+ years ago. They've
done
> a
> > nice job fixing it up. BTW, you forgot to mention the National
Road/Zane
> > Grey Museum (Ohio Historical Society) west of New Concord.
>
> I didn't mention it because I didn't stop at it (What was I going to say?
> It's there!?). It does look very official though. I thought it was
> privately owned as recently as 10 years ago.

AFAIK, the National Road/Zane Grey Museum has been owned by the Ohio
Historical Society (a division of the State of Ohio government) since it was
opened in the early 1970s. BTW, it is well worth the visit.


>
> > > Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> > > directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
> > > This doesn't mean it wasn't signed before.
> >

> > Although it isn't on the current OhDOT maps (probably too small to make
> > sense on map), it's on my 1976 OhDOT map, and I always have remember
> seeing
> > it signed, although not on I-70.
> > >
> > > Cambridge doesn't look half bad, especially in light of it's
*neighbors*
> > >
> > > Old US 40 is signed as County Rt 40A (between Fairview and Oh 800) in
> > > Belmont Co.


> > >
> > > Got pictures of both dead ends of the old US 40 routing between exits
> 202
> > > and 204
> > > The northern dead end (at exit 204) that ended at a *pile of dirt* is
> I-70
> > > itself (I think Brian Powell mentioned this before).
> >

> > Yep. The old routing of US 40 heading westbound at Exit 204 (where it
> joins
> > I-70 west) crosses an older bridge and basically just ends in the
> embankment
> > for the new I-70/US 40 routing. Also, it should be noted that the ramp
> from
> > I-70 east to US 40 is really steep. Did OhDOT get the US 40 turn sign
at
> > the bottom of the ramp from I-70 installed? They said that they had (I
> > reported that it was missing and OhDOT District11 said that they
> dispatched
> > a crew to install a new one.).
>
> On the south or northside of I-70? I don't think so, but I can't honestly
> recall. It wasn't something I was trying to remember.

The US 40 sign that was supposed to be installed was at the bottom of the
Exit 204 ramp from I-70 at/near the intersection with Belmont CR 100. The
sign is supposed to direct US 40 traffic to turn right and head under I-70
to continue on US 40 east.
>
> > > St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember
what
> I
> > > said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing
> something
> > > right.
> >
> > I hate the traffic light for a shopping center on a steep downgrade on
the
> > west end of town. It's a very bad location and looks like an accident
> > waiting to happen.
>
> Sort of like Oh 61 and Oh 529 south of Mt Gilad?

I can't really remember the intersection of OH 61 and OH 529. It's been a
while since I've been down that stretch of OH 61.
>
> > > I wish there was a way I could of got a picture of the concrete arch
> > bridge
> > > at Blaine (I also wished it didn't snow and rain on my travel days
:-(.
> > > Neverless, a very impressive structure.
> >
> > I have some photos that I'll scan and post of the bridge that I took of
> the
> > concrete arch from the bottom. This 1932 bridge is really a site to see
> as
> > it starts at one end at ground level and is at least 100 feet tall on
the
> > other side of the span. In it's shadow is the 1828 Blaine Hill Bridge
> built
> > as part of the National Road. When I was here in December, one of its
> > arches, which had collapsed, was being rebuilt (I think by the St.
> > Clairsville) for a bike trail.
>
> Which bridge was being fixed? The 1932 or the 1828 version? The one not
> being ulilized by US 40 nowadays looked to be still under construction.

It was the 1828 National Road bridge that was being fixed. It's the little
one (size relative to the 1932 version) at the bottom of the valley. It
didn't look like the 1932 had any any work except for a reconstruction of
the concrete on the deck travel lanes. The sidewalk and barrier appeared to
be original, as was the cool concrete staircase about halfway down the
bridge that connected the sidewalk to the bottom of the valley about 150ft
from the 1828 bridge. It didn't look to have been used recently (which
makes sense since the sidewalk dead ends at the west end of the bridge and
it wouldn't make sense to climb the staircase to go to the eastern end when
you could have taken a flat route). The staircase had a couple of landings
(I think three), all of which "floated" because they didn't have any
supports columns.
>
> > At the bottom of the concrete arch bridge, you can turn left and head
down
> > Belmont CR 10 to get to a good place (although muddy) for photos of both
> > bridges and a nice view of I-70 well above you on some cliffs.
>
> I must have not gone down far enough, plus the rain didn't make me want to
> expose my cameras


>
> > > Could someone please explain the routings of US 250, 40, Oh 7 and
their

> > > interaction with I-70 at Bridgeport/Wheeling? I could of swore I saw


a
> > East
> > > US 250 sign with a arrow underneath it pointing west.
> > > I take it the original bridge from Wheeling Island to Bridgeport was
> > > retired? Though it is still standing and can be used for picture
> taking,
> > > picnics, etc if you can find somewhere close by to park at (which I
> found

> > > lacking).
> >
> > Here's what I've compiled from my personal trips, maps, and the OhDOT
> > Traffic Count Logs.
> >
> > I-70 stays on its freeway through Bridgeport.
> > OH 7 stays on its freeway/divided highway through Bridgeport.
> > US 40 stays straight heading through Bridgeport and crosses into
> > Wheeling (Island) WV on the older bridge north of the current I-70
bridge.
> > On Wheeling Island, it hops onto I-70 to get across from Wheeling Island
> to
> > Wheeling proper.
> > US 250 heads in from the northwest on Lincoln Avenue and joins US 40
> for
> > the ride into WV. This is according to the OhDOT Traffic Logs. The
> signage
> > on I-70 basically just has the traffic stay eastbound on I-70 for US 250
> > east rather than exit to get back on in WV. (This is from memory.)
> > OH 7A and OH 767 also exist to join US 250, OH 7, US 40, and I-70.
> I'll
> > have to sit down with the Traffic Log and a map to plot exactly where
> these
> > two routes go.
>
> Where is Oh 767 and Oh Alt 7?

Some other posts cover where these routes actually go. I know OH 767
appears on Mapblast (or was it Mapquest) maps.
>
> I also forgot to mention on WB US 40, in Bridgeport, there is a traffic
> light that has 2 red lenses and then a yellow and green underneith it. It
> looks like a 'T'
> Also got several pics of the Wheeling Supension bridge (from Wheeling
Island
> to Wheeling), though none of them are what I would call spectacular. :-(
> > --
> > Brian Powell
> --
> Sandor G

--
Brian Powell
E-mail: ohhw...@hotmail.com
East Central States Road Guide: http://members.xoom.com/ohhwyguy/


SPUI

unread,
Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to

Bruce Harper <bha...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:100420001032318957%bha...@vt.edu...

> You didn't specify which Bruce, so I'll pop in here. If the road is
> where I think it is, then is is/was the "industrial complex highway"
> that was discussed before. It has a companion four-lanes-to-nowhere
> section at the other end, in McKees Rocks along Chartiers Creek.
>
> To qualify this, I am picturing this location as being along PA 60 as
> one heads toward Crafton from the I-79 interchange. After crossing
> the Thornburg Bridge over Chartiers Creek and the PA/Penn Central/PC&Y
> railroad tracks, a look to the left is where the highway is located. I
> seem to remember there was somewhat of an industrical park down
> in there also.
>
> I remember the discussion, but don't remember if the road was planned
> to go anywhere other than to connect W. Carson Street with the
> Steubenville Pike/PA 60.

The road is shown as PA 3067 on
ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BPR_pdf_files/Type10Maps/ALLEGHENY.PDF
- it is visible in Terraserver at
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=11&T=1&X=1444&Y=11193&Z=17&W=2
--
Daniel Moraseski - roadGEEK in Orlando FL
http://spui.cjb.net/index.html - FL and NJ roads, and a list of SPUIs
http://ocps.cjb.net - Orange County Prison System (why student IDs suck)
Editor of http://roadlinks.cjb.net (highway cat of Open Directory Project)


Ron Newman

unread,
Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
In article <fR8I4.3600$t_3....@cletus.bright.net>, "Denny"
<De...@bright.net> wrote:

> Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing aids).

Do you have a photo of that sign?

If you go to the National Road/Zane Grey Museum, you'll see a photo of
downtown Zanesville bustling with pedestrians shopping at downtown
stores. This was probably taken in the 1940s or earlier, and the
contrast with deserted modern downtown Zanesville is quite striking.

Unlike others in this thread, I can't see Zanesville ever serving
as a bedroom community for Columbus. It's too far away, there are no
commuter trains, and there's lots of undeveloped rural area between
the two cities.

> New Concord, on the other hand from Zanesville, looks phony, as in too nice.
> Granted it's a college town, but easy up on the signs and the trees folks.

Which college is here?

> Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> directional sign on itself NB over I-70).

Where is this road?

> Old US 40 is signed as County Rt 40A (between Fairview and Oh 800) in
> Belmont Co.

I'd be curious to know why this was discontinued as US 40.

On my AAA map, there is no alternative to I-70 between OH 800 at
Hendrysburg and the next interchange to the east. Is this in fact
the case?

> St. Clairsville makes Cambridge look like Zanesville (and remember what I
> said about Cambridge 4 sentences ago). The mayor there is doing something
> right.

St. Clairsville is lovely. What keeps this town of 5000 people
so prosperous?

--
Ron Newman rne...@thecia.net
http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/

Bob Johnson

unread,
Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 06:51:36 -0400, rne...@thecia.net (Ron Newman)
wrote:

>Unlike others in this thread, I can't see Zanesville ever serving
>as a bedroom community for Columbus. It's too far away, there are no
>commuter trains, and there's lots of undeveloped rural area between
>the two cities.

It could be feasible for people who work from Bryce Road east (the
eastern edge suburbs of Columbus).

Nobody rides a train to work in Columbus and the traffic from
Zanesville to Columbus isn't enough to make the commuting painful from
traffic jams, so that point is irrelevant.

Undeveloped land would have to be built on; in places like Zanesville
you can buy a house for far less than its replacement construction
cost; there would be your incentive to drive further.

Bob Johnson

Adam Prince

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to

Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote in message
news:rnewman-1104...@ppp39-180.thecia.net...

> In article <fR8I4.3600$t_3....@cletus.bright.net>, "Denny"
> <De...@bright.net> wrote:
>
> > Zanesville does look rundown (Nothing like a 7up sign to sell hearing
aids).
>
> Do you have a photo of that sign?

I don't but I have a good old Mail Pouch Tobacco and Pepsi sign pic from
outside of Zanesville (east) on the bottom of the main road pics page
http://www.geocities.com/aprince27/roads.html


> > New Concord, on the other hand from Zanesville, looks phony, as in too
nice.
> > Granted it's a college town, but easy up on the signs and the trees
folks.
>
> Which college is here?

Muskingum College..my sister goes there...(she would love the free publicity
she is getting right now)..she was the MVP of the women's soccer team this
season


>
> > Oh 723 does exist! It is signed from US 40/22 (and I think it has a
> > directional sign on itself NB over I-70).
>
> Where is this road?

It is the 2 lane road of the trumpet interchange of US22/40 with I-70

Peter Rosa

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
[[Unlike others in this thread, I can't see Zanesville ever

serving as a bedroom community for Columbus. It's too far away,
there are no commuter trains, and there's lots of undeveloped
rural area between the two cities.]
[It could be feasible for people who work from Bryce Road east
(the eastern edge suburbs of Columbus).
Nobody rides a train to work in Columbus and the traffic from
Zanesville to Columbus isn't enough to make the commuting painful
from traffic jams, so that point is irrelevant.
Undeveloped land would have to be built on; in places like
Zanesville you can buy a house for far less than its replacement
construction cost; there would be your incentive to drive
further.]

Zanesville might have advantages in addition to low housing
prices. While I've never been there, I've gathered from here and
elsewhere that Zanesville is a once-prosperous town that's more
or less been in a state of suspended animation for a few decades,
but hasn't turned into a ghetto. If that's so, then in addition
to inexpensive housing it probably has a good selection of *nice*
housing, classy old houses from years past that have more charm
than most of what's being built today. Moreover, the fact that
the town hasn't become a slum probably means that crime isn't a
big problem and the schools are decent enough. For those with an
entreprenurial bent, there's probably plenty of inexpensive
retail and commercial space for rent.
It really sounds to me as if Zanesville is poised for a revival.

BCBA

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
The other Bruce pops in to say "Way to go Bruce!" I figured by the time
I read thru all the responses someone would answer it...

--bruce (a native of sacramento but still in the 'burgh) cridlebaugh


Adam Prince wrote:
>
> Bruce Harper <bha...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> >

> > You didn't specify which Bruce, so I'll pop in here. If the road is
> > where I think it is, then is is/was the "industrial complex highway"
> > that was discussed before. It has a companion four-lanes-to-nowhere
> > section at the other end, in McKees Rocks along Chartiers Creek.
>

Adam Prince

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
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My only response is what took you so long?? I was wondering when you would
make your comments on this thread..:)

Although I am sure you had a good reason

BCBA <sys...@prisma-graphicdesign.com> wrote in message
news:38F37287...@prisma-graphicdesign.com...

Denny

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
Bruce Harper <bha...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:100420001032318957%bha...@vt.edu...

>
> You didn't specify which Bruce, so I'll pop in here. If the road is
> where I think it is, then is is/was the "industrial complex highway"
> that was discussed before. It has a companion four-lanes-to-nowhere
> section at the other end, in McKees Rocks along Chartiers Creek.
>
> To qualify this, I am picturing this location as being along PA 60 as
> one heads toward Crafton from the I-79 interchange. After crossing
> the Thornburg Bridge over Chartiers Creek and the PA/Penn Central/PC&Y
> railroad tracks, a look to the left is where the highway is located. I
> seem to remember there was somewhat of an industrical park down
> in there also.
>
Yep, that would be what I saw. Well that mystery is solved (until the next
time it is brought up)?

>
> Bruce in Blacksburg (but a native of the 'Burgh)

Denny

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Apr 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/11/00
to
Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000410121637...@ng-md1.aol.com...

> >You think it used to?!? Does that mean it may still exist or did PennDOT
or
> >Pittsburgh throw up some signs for the hell of it? :-)
>
> I doubt it exists since PA 380 was truncated at I 579 after it was
finished
> IIRC. But who knows with PennDOT.

Well I got one slide of a ALT 380, and I'm crossing my fingers about the
picture (the lense blocker was sticking again :-(

> >You still planning on coming out to OSU for the weather extravaganza 3
weeks
> >from Monday?
>
> Can't, my Physics prof decided to have a test during that time.

The fool! Fate must not want us to meet. :-(

> Jeff Kitsko
> Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
> Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html

GeneJYao

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
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denny wrote:

>So run this by me again.
>What did I see near Crafton/Charters Run? Abandoned freeway? Long lost
>Road? Other?

If you're talking about the divided road that extends jsut north of PA 60 (but
doesn't connect onto it) and parallels the Chartiers Run, it is the Industrial
Highway. Originally it was supposed to run from PA 60 to PA 51 and conenct with
industrial parks along the way. The road was never finished and only a few
miles have been built. It is not abandoned but it is rarely used and basically
forgotten. It might as well be abandoned. I can onyl think of a few warehouses
(which may be abandoned) and an abandoned (or partially abandoned) public
housing project that have roadways emptying onto that road.

Jeff Kitsko

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
>Nobody rides a train to work in Columbus and the traffic from
>Zanesville to Columbus isn't enough to make the commuting painful from
>traffic jams, so that point is irrelevant.

Tell me about it. When I took my late Snoopy to the OSU Vet Hospital, the one
visit I noticed that we were getting close to 4 PM before we were waited on. I
asked the people what the traffic is like, and everyone was saying its bad and
terrible. I figured that I would take 670 => 270 => 70 back if need be. But I
got into the traffic and top speed was....40 MPH!!!!!! Thats not a traffic
jam, come to Pittsburgh where its 5!

Denny

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00
to
Jeff Kitsko <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20000412012612...@ng-cu1.aol.com...

> >Nobody rides a train to work in Columbus and the traffic from
> >Zanesville to Columbus isn't enough to make the commuting painful from
> >traffic jams, so that point is irrelevant.
>
> Tell me about it. When I took my late Snoopy to the OSU Vet Hospital, the
one
> visit I noticed that we were getting close to 4 PM before we were waited
on. I
> asked the people what the traffic is like, and everyone was saying its bad
and
> terrible. I figured that I would take 670 => 270 => 70 back if need be.
But I
> got into the traffic and top speed was....40 MPH!!!!!! Thats not a
traffic
> jam, come to Pittsburgh where its 5!

I know, the closest to a traffic jam we come to here is at I-270/US 23/OH
315. All the shuffling slows everyone. With ODOT closing one lane on the
ramp from I-270WB to OH 315 SB (to Campus and beyond), that has made the
area 10X worse.
But I'll put it to you this way guys, I-71 is getting 3 lanes between
Columbus and Cleveland so the cars can drive 70 MPH the entire length (IOW,
avoid getting stuck behind semis doing 55-60). They could have saved plenty
of money if they just made the truck speed limit same as the cars, and it
would of helped the OHP in trying to slow everyone down.

> Jeff Kitsko
> Located on Unity TR 707 @ US 30 and PA 981
> Pennsylvania Highways: http://members.aol.com/pahighways/main.html

--

David J. Greenberger

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Apr 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/12/00