New "Speed Zone Ahead" Signs (WI)

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Craig Holl

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Jun 10, 2004, 5:54:53 PM6/10/04
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http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/news/news/2004general/opa-speedzonesigns112.htm

New "Speed Zone Ahead" signs to begin showing up along state highways
June 10, 2004
As a result of changes to federal guidelines, the Wisconsin Department of
Transportation is beginning to install a new "Speed Zone Ahead" sign along state
highways. The new signs will replace the "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs that
currently announce slower speed zones.

"The new diamond-shaped signs will have an image of a typical rectangular
black-and-white speed limit sign positioned under a black upward-facing arrow.
Both images will be on a yellow background," said State Signing Engineer Matt
Rauch. "The new sign stands out more as a warning to give motorists a better idea
of what to expect as they approach a new speed zone."

Rauch said the new signs will be erected as stocks of the older "Reduced Speed
Ahead" signs are depleted.

The new signs are one result of changes to federal guidelines used by all states
for highway signage. Rauch said states have until December 22, 2018 to replace all
existing "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs with the newer-style signs. Prison inmates
working for Badger State Industries are currently manufacturing the new style
signs.

Current and new sign sample (512 KB)


Arif Khokar

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Jun 10, 2004, 6:05:22 PM6/10/04
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Craig Holl wrote:

> http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/news/news/2004general/opa-speedzonesigns112.htm
>
> New "Speed Zone Ahead" signs to begin showing up along state highways
> June 10, 2004
> As a result of changes to federal guidelines, the Wisconsin Department of
> Transportation is beginning to install a new "Speed Zone Ahead" sign along state
> highways. The new signs will replace the "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs that
> currently announce slower speed zones.

Did the 1988 edition of the MUTCD specify "Speed Zone Ahead" rectangular
signs?

Michael G. Koerner

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Jun 10, 2004, 6:25:33 PM6/10/04
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This is in the more recent update, adopted about a year ago. The new
signs are yellow 'warning' signs.

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

Michael G. Koerner

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Jun 10, 2004, 6:26:24 PM6/10/04
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Howabout a challenge to post our 'first sightings' of these new signs in use.

Arif Khokar

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Jun 10, 2004, 7:26:27 PM6/10/04
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Michael G. Koerner wrote:

> Arif Khokar wrote:

>>Did the 1988 edition of the MUTCD specify "Speed Zone Ahead" rectangular
>>signs?

> This is in the more recent update, adopted about a year ago. The new
> signs are yellow 'warning' signs.

I understand that. I remember in the '80s that most reduced speed areas
had a "Speed Zone Ahead" rectangular shaped sign preceding them. Around
10 years ago (or longer) those signs were replaced with rectangular
"Reduced Speed Ahead Signs." At least, that was the case in WV. VA has
always used "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs as far as I can remember.

Lance Lamboy

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Jun 10, 2004, 7:31:17 PM6/10/04
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I can see the problem now. Some speeder is going to try to argue out of
his ticket because the wrong sign was up. They should change the specs so
that either sign is acceptable to cut off the BS excuses.

Lance Lamboy

Scott O. Kuznicki

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Jun 10, 2004, 8:16:24 PM6/10/04
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Arif Khokar <akhok...@wvu.edu> posted:

> Did the 1988 edition of the MUTCD specify "Speed Zone Ahead" rectangular
> signs?

I'm not sure on that question, but part of the answer has to do with the
difference between the two wordings:

"SPEED ZONE AHEAD" (used in IL)

"REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" (used in WI and MN)

The SZA sign is intended for zones that are posted at other than the
statutory speed limit for rural facilities. The RSA sign is intended for
reduced zones that are already in a reduced zone. Illinois does not allow
the posting of RSA signs, instead using the method of 10-mph maximum speed
limit changes in non-statutory zones. For example, a speed might go 55 -
SZA - 45 - 35 - 25 or 55 - 50 - 40 - 30 - 25 or 55 - SZA - 25. Other states
might use the method 55 - SZA - 45 - RSA - 25. As an aside, most states
allow changes of 5 mph from statutory without an advance sign (as is the
case in Illinois). I'm not sure if the 55 to 25 is acceptable in Illinois,
but I seem to recall it is.

--
Scott Kuznicki
Dedicated Highway Enthusiast
Civil (Traffic) Engineer


Arif Khokar

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Jun 10, 2004, 8:21:22 PM6/10/04
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Lance Lamboy wrote:

> I can see the problem now.

I can see the problem too. You're too stupid to stay on topic.

Chris Jordan

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Jun 10, 2004, 8:44:28 PM6/10/04
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I thought the MUTCD settled on just changing the current rectangular
"Speed Zone Ahead" or "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
from black on white signs to black on yellow.

I know of one sign like the one I just described.
It is at the western access road for SUNYIT outside of Utica, NY.
A stretch of the access road is a 35 zone,
then after the yellow on black rectangular sign,
the campus 25 limit is then posted.


Stéphane Dumas

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Jun 10, 2004, 9:07:20 PM6/10/04
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> > Craig Holl wrote:
> >
> > >
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/news/news/2004general/opa-speedzonesigns112.htm
> > > New "Speed Zone Ahead" signs to begin showing up along state highways
June 10, 2004
> > > As a result of changes to federal guidelines, the Wisconsin Department
of
> > > Transportation is beginning to install a new "Speed Zone Ahead" sign
along state
> > > highways. The new signs will replace the "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
that
> > > currently announce slower speed zones.
> >
> > Did the 1988 edition of the MUTCD specify "Speed Zone Ahead" rectangular
> > signs?
>
> This is in the more recent update, adopted about a year ago. The new
> signs are yellow 'warning' signs.

Here in Quebec, we have these kind of warning signs since the late 1980's
http://www.signabec.ca/danger.htm (D-70 shield)
http://www.signcenterinc.com/3.Traffic/2.Danger/2.Danger.f.html (D-70)
>
>> Michael G. Koerner, Appleton, Wisconsin USA

Stéphane Dumas


Redneck Crackerhead

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Jun 10, 2004, 10:27:58 PM6/10/04
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"Craig Holl" <craigh...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NM4yc.10833$Fd....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...


The change will get noticed for about 3 months then nobody will give a damn.
I mean, when even the state troopers don't bother to observe the speed
limit, why should anyone else?


Polkajig

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Jun 10, 2004, 11:52:20 PM6/10/04
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I even once saw a few "Reduce Speed Ahead." However, the ones that I have seen
have been changed to "Reduced Speed Ahead."

Greg Pniewski
Bernardsville, NJ

West Bend Roadgeek

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Jun 11, 2004, 8:11:16 AM6/11/04
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"Craig Holl" <craigh...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message news:<NM4yc.10833$Fd....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...

There is at least one posted already - WI 164 NB just south of
Hubertus Rd. This doesn't replace an existing sign. The speed limit
from there north to the Pleasant Hill 40 zone was recently changed
from 55 to 50.

Marc Fannin

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Jun 11, 2004, 2:38:14 PM6/11/04
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"Chris Jordan" <cj_j...@netzero.netREMOVE> wrote...

> I thought the MUTCD settled on just changing the current rectangular
> "Speed Zone Ahead" or "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
> from black on white signs to black on yellow.

It adopted both types.

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2c.htm#section2C30

________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musx...@kent.edu or @hotmail.com| http://www.roadfan.com/

informant

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Jun 12, 2004, 12:00:42 AM6/12/04
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"Redneck Crackerhead" <redneck@crackerhead> wrote in message
news:cab5a...@news3.newsguy.com...

I thought you said you lived in Kentucky? It's Bullis that knows Wisconsin,
Bullis.


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From: "Redneck Crackerhead" <redneck@crackerhead>
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Subject: Re: New "Speed Zone Ahead" Signs (WI)
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Aaron of Minneapolis

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Jun 12, 2004, 2:29:49 AM6/12/04
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Hmmm, I notice that the MUTCD has specifications for *metric* signs. I
wonder how many decades it will be before we see any of those? :-) (Or do
they use them in Puerto Rico?)

-- Aaron of Minneapolis

============================================================================
~ "But it's got SPAM in it! I don't LIKE spam!" ~
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"Marc Fannin" <musx...@kent.edu> wrote in message
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Stéphane Dumas

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Jun 12, 2004, 8:03:35 AM6/12/04
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"Aaron of Minneapolis" <qwert_yu...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le
message de news:xpxyc.99745$oQ6....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> Hmmm, I notice that the MUTCD has specifications for *metric* signs. I
> wonder how many decades it will be before we see any of those? :-) (Or do
> they use them in Puerto Rico?)
>
> -- Aaron of Minneapolis
>
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/fig2c-05_longdesc.htm

I wondered why the metric ones for the exit speed ramps have a circle? For
example this one in Quebec don't have the circle
http://signisinc.com/WDCGI/WDWEBCGI.EXE/CTX_263-0-vxpiRfOLBN/WEB_PRINCIPALE?TABLE_PRODUIT=2&DETAILS

(And I fordwarded to the Aussie mailing list, there already an interesting
reply http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/aussiehwys/message/4714 )

Stéphane Dumas


Michael G. Koerner

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Jun 12, 2004, 11:08:47 AM6/12/04
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"Stéphane Dumas" wrote:
>
> "Aaron of Minneapolis" <qwert_yu...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le
> message de news:xpxyc.99745$oQ6....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Hmmm, I notice that the MUTCD has specifications for *metric* signs. I
> > wonder how many decades it will be before we see any of those? :-) (Or do
> > they use them in Puerto Rico?)
> >
> > -- Aaron of Minneapolis
> >
> http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/fig2c-05_longdesc.htm
>
> I wondered why the metric ones for the exit speed ramps have a circle? For
> example this one in Quebec don't have the circle
> http://signisinc.com/WDCGI/WDWEBCGI.EXE/CTX_263-0-vxpiRfOLBN/WEB_PRINCIPALE?TABLE_PRODUIT=2&DETAILS

It is to differentiate them from non-metric signs.

NOW, if they would go the _rest of the way_ and adopt the 'red circle'
that is used in most of the rest of the world for speed limit signage,
that black circle would be a truly American idea that would fit the
logic for use on 'advisory speed' signage.

> (And I fordwarded to the Aussie mailing list, there already an interesting
> reply http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/aussiehwys/message/4714 )
>
> Stéphane Dumas

scroob

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Jun 12, 2004, 2:41:26 PM6/12/04
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Arif Khokar <akhok...@wvu.edu> wrote in
news:D66yc.5586$oT1...@news02.roc.ny:

> VA has
> always used "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs as far as I can remember.
>

Actually, before the mandate to use "reduced", most states used "reduce
speed ahead," including VA. The "problem" was that it didn't tell you how
far ahead.

WV and Oregon (for 2) use "Speed Zone Ahead."

I always liked NC's the best: "Begin 35 1000 feet ahead." How can you get
more to the point than that?

I also find it interesting that both Oregon and WV use different speed
limit signs from most other states. Rather than the typical number nested
within "speed" and "limit," they both use identical square signs that
simply announce "SPEED" over the limit (like SPEED 55.)

I-420

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Jun 12, 2004, 9:54:02 PM6/12/04
to
I have been curious about those since they finally forced it on
everybody ;) What I had noticed is that "Speed Zone Ahead" (R2-5c)
and "Reduced Speed Ahead" (R2-5a) are interchangeable. This also
included the lesser used "Reduced Speed XX", which I have never seen
used by anyone but local jurisdictions in GA. The 2000 MUTCD pretty
much permits either one on whatever whim.

Myself, I had thought they ought to have a little better criteria than
that, because "Speed Zone Ahead" leans more towards "Speed Trap
Ahead", while "Reduced Speed Ahead" sounds more like a need based on
safety hazard such as sharp curves, a congested area or an approaching
dead end. With such an ambiguous meaning as that, the option seemed
confusing to me.

With these new signs, it seems that the FHWA has made it clear they
very much prefer "Speed Zone" to "Reduced Speed". Regardless, I have
noticed that NC still uses "Reduce Speed" exclusively: at least until
the changeover. I personally am not crazy about the signs, because I
think there are already too many warning signs on the road, but oh
well :)

Arif Khokar

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Jun 12, 2004, 10:30:21 PM6/12/04
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scroob wrote:

> Arif Khokar <akhok...@wvu.edu> wrote:

>>VA has
>>always used "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs as far as I can remember.

> Actually, before the mandate to use "reduced", most states used "reduce
> speed ahead," including VA.

That probably was the case.

> The "problem" was that it didn't tell you how
> far ahead.

IME, most signs like that do not though I think that WV has one set of
signs outside of Summersville that state reduced speed 1000 feet ahead
prior to the regular "Reduced Speed Ahead xx MPH" signs. Those were
installed quite recently ... probably due to the speed trap reputation
of that town.

> WV and Oregon (for 2) use "Speed Zone Ahead."

WV used to, but they now used "Reduced Speed Ahead xx MPH" where xx is
the lowered speed limit. Virginia also uses similar signage, but they
do not include the lower speed limit in that sign like WV does.

> I always liked NC's the best: "Begin 35 1000 feet ahead." How can you get
> more to the point than that?

I don't recall ever seeing a sign like that in NC.

> I also find it interesting that both Oregon and WV use different speed
> limit signs from most other states. Rather than the typical number nested
> within "speed" and "limit," they both use identical square signs that
> simply announce "SPEED" over the limit (like SPEED 55.)

Actually WV posts "Speed Limit xx" signage with the words "Speed Limit"
in stack formation and the number in a larger font at the bottom. I do
not recall ever seeing a "Speed xx" sign in WV.

Aaron of Minneapolis

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Jun 13, 2004, 2:46:07 AM6/13/04
to
> (And I fordwarded to the Aussie mailing list, there already an interesting
> reply http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/aussiehwys/message/4714 )
>
> Stéphane Dumas

He he he... :-) You can forward my reply too if you want:

I'm guessing they're in the specifications both as a holdover from the
1970s, when people thought the US would soon go metric, and as a provision
for the future, when the US eventually *does* go metric. They have them for
regular speed limit signs too:

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2b1.htm#figure2B1
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/fig2b-01_longdesc.htm

scroob

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Jun 13, 2004, 5:14:30 AM6/13/04
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Arif Khokar <akhok...@wvu.edu> wrote in
news:1%Oyc.2411$SA....@news01.roc.ny:

>> I always liked NC's the best: "Begin 35 1000 feet ahead." How can you
>> get more to the point than that?
>
> I don't recall ever seeing a sign like that in NC.
>
>> I also find it interesting that both Oregon and WV use different
>> speed limit signs from most other states. Rather than the typical
>> number nested within "speed" and "limit," they both use identical
>> square signs that simply announce "SPEED" over the limit (like SPEED
>> 55.)
>
> Actually WV posts "Speed Limit xx" signage with the words "Speed
> Limit" in stack formation and the number in a larger font at the
> bottom. I do not recall ever seeing a "Speed xx" sign in WV.

Then you are showing your (young) age. ;)

Arif Khokar

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Jun 13, 2004, 10:55:42 AM6/13/04
to
scroob wrote:

> Arif Khokar <akhok...@wvu.edu> wrote:

>>Actually WV posts "Speed Limit xx" signage with the words "Speed
>>Limit" in stack formation and the number in a larger font at the
>>bottom. I do not recall ever seeing a "Speed xx" sign in WV.

> Then you are showing your (young) age. ;)

Heh. I'll turn 30 in less than 6 months and I used to think that was old ;)

John David Galt

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Jun 13, 2004, 10:23:01 PM6/13/04
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> Actually, before the mandate to use "reduced", most states used "reduce
> speed ahead," including VA. The "problem" was that it didn't tell you how
> far ahead.
>
> WV and Oregon (for 2) use "Speed Zone Ahead."

It seems to me that how far ahead is less important than what the new
speed limit is going to be. If the limit is going from 50 to 35, I
don't want to tick everybody off by slowing to 25, but I don't want to
get a ticket by doing the opposite.

> I also find it interesting that both Oregon and WV use different speed
> limit signs from most other states. Rather than the typical number nested
> within "speed" and "limit," they both use identical square signs that
> simply announce "SPEED" over the limit (like SPEED 55.)

Indeed, I wonder how they get away with that. I'd be tempted to argue,
"... but the sign doesn't _say_ it's a _limit_!"

John David Galt

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Jun 13, 2004, 10:47:23 PM6/13/04
to
>> I wondered why the metric ones for the exit speed ramps have a circle? For
>> example this one in Quebec don't have the circle
>> http://signisinc.com/WDCGI/WDWEBCGI.EXE/CTX_263-0-vxpiRfOLBN/WEB_PRINCIPALE?TABLE_PRODUIT=2&DETAILS

> It is to differentiate them from non-metric signs.
>
> NOW, if they would go the _rest of the way_ and adopt the 'red circle'
> that is used in most of the rest of the world for speed limit signage,
> that black circle would be a truly American idea that would fit the
> logic for use on 'advisory speed' signage.

FHWA's first draft had a red circle, and I wrote them and commented that
red normally means "prohibited", and a better color would be blue for
"permitted", as I believe is used in Germany.

For what it's worth, Canadian speed limit signs look like ours but with
"km/h" underneath the number, on the same sign.

Michael G. Koerner

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Jun 13, 2004, 11:41:06 PM6/13/04
to
John David Galt wrote:
>
> >> I wondered why the metric ones for the exit speed ramps have a circle? For
> >> example this one in Quebec don't have the circle
> >> http://signisinc.com/WDCGI/WDWEBCGI.EXE/CTX_263-0-vxpiRfOLBN/WEB_PRINCIPALE?TABLE_PRODUIT=2&DETAILS
>
> > It is to differentiate them from non-metric signs.
> >
> > NOW, if they would go the _rest of the way_ and adopt the 'red circle'
> > that is used in most of the rest of the world for speed limit signage,
> > that black circle would be a truly American idea that would fit the
> > logic for use on 'advisory speed' signage.
>
> FHWA's first draft had a red circle, and I wrote them and commented that
> red normally means "prohibited", and a better color would be blue for
> "permitted", as I believe is used in Germany.

Actually, 'numbers inside a red circle' is the standard usage in Germany
(and the rest of Europe, for that matter) for speed limit signs. White
numbers on a blue disk means 'mandatory minimum speed' in Europe (white
on a blue disk is a 'mandatory' regulatory sign there).

Also, in Europe, black on white inside of a green circle is a regulatory
sign that means 'permitted but not mandatory'.

Thus, numbers inside of a red circle are the appropriate 'logic' for
Km/h speed limit signage here and are unambiguous. As it stands now,
the only confusion that I can anticipate with those signs is with the
standard AASHTO 'state' highway route marker in the same manner as our
current 'MPH' speed limit signs are sometimes (often?) confused with the
route markers of states that use square route markers.

> For what it's worth, Canadian speed limit signs look like ours but with
> "km/h" underneath the number, on the same sign.

Canadian speed limit signs are in the form (crude ASCII art follows):

+---------+
| MAXIMUM |
| |
| (xxx) |
| |
| Km/h |
+---------+

Matthew E. Salek

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Jun 26, 2004, 10:58:42 PM6/26/04
to
In article <cc3aa42a.04061...@posting.google.com>,
musx...@kent.edu (Marc Fannin) wrote:

> "Chris Jordan" <cj_j...@netzero.netREMOVE> wrote...
>
> > I thought the MUTCD settled on just changing the current rectangular
> > "Speed Zone Ahead" or "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
> > from black on white signs to black on yellow.
>
> It adopted both types.
>
> http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2c.htm#section2C30

Are you sure? I can't find the R2-5 "Reduced Speed Ahead" and "Speed
Zone Ahead" signs in the MUTCD. They're not in the listing of
regulatory signs nor shown in the speed limit sign section.

In my opinion going to the new yellow diamond version is a good thing.
Having all those different ways of signing reduced speeds before was
just goofy. Take the "Speed Zone Ahead" sign. Aren't I already in a
zone with a speed limit?

--
Matthew E. Salek, E.I. ** Spam filter in use. Remove numbers **
Aurora, Colorado ** from address to e-mail reply. **
http://www.mesalek.com

Marc Fannin

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Jun 28, 2004, 7:02:35 PM6/28/04
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"Matthew E. Salek" <msale...@frii.com> wrote...

> ...musx...@kent.edu (Marc Fannin) wrote:
>
> > "Chris Jordan" <cj_j...@netzero.netREMOVE> wrote...
> >
> > > I thought the MUTCD settled on just changing the current rectangular
> > > "Speed Zone Ahead" or "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
> > > from black on white signs to black on yellow.
> >
> > It adopted both types.
> >
> > http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2c.htm#section2C30
>
> Are you sure? I can't find the R2-5 "Reduced Speed Ahead" and "Speed
> Zone Ahead" signs in the MUTCD. They're not in the listing of
> regulatory signs nor shown in the speed limit sign section.

Perhaps I'm reading into this wrong, but I thought what was being
discussed was the W3-5 (which includes a symbolic speed limit sign)
vs. the W3-5a (the all-text yellow diamond sign), both at the link
above or at
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/fig2c-05_longdesc.htm and
therefore adopted.

Matthew E. Salek

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Jun 29, 2004, 12:03:20 AM6/29/04
to
In article <cc3aa42a.04062...@posting.google.com>,
musx...@kent.edu (Marc Fannin) wrote:

> "Matthew E. Salek" <msale...@frii.com> wrote...
>
> > ...musx...@kent.edu (Marc Fannin) wrote:
> >
> > > "Chris Jordan" <cj_j...@netzero.netREMOVE> wrote...
> > >
> > > > I thought the MUTCD settled on just changing the current rectangular
> > > > "Speed Zone Ahead" or "Reduced Speed Ahead" signs
> > > > from black on white signs to black on yellow.
> > >
> > > It adopted both types.
> > >
> > > http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2c.htm#section2C30
> >
> > Are you sure? I can't find the R2-5 "Reduced Speed Ahead" and "Speed
> > Zone Ahead" signs in the MUTCD. They're not in the listing of
> > regulatory signs nor shown in the speed limit sign section.
>
> Perhaps I'm reading into this wrong, but I thought what was being
> discussed was the W3-5 (which includes a symbolic speed limit sign)
> vs. the W3-5a (the all-text yellow diamond sign), both at the link
> above or at
> http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/fig2c-05_longdesc.htm and
> therefore adopted.

Might be my misreading. When you said "adopted both types" I thought
you meant both the old white rectangles and new yellow diamonds were in
the MUTCD.

515tran...@gmail.com

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Jul 20, 2020, 11:03:20 PM7/20/20
to
Yeah they had those big square signs in NC when I was a kid. Begin 35 1000 feet ahead. It was a black and white sign.
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