I-99 renumbering
mrpete
it not even a good idea to build this road?
-Pete
Rich Dean
We get into big discussions on I-99 every so often. One time it
resulted in something like 100 responses. Since there aren't any
replies yet as I read the message I guess I will.
My feeling is that the section that the section from I-76 north to
Tyrone should be a spur of that route along with US 220. The freeway
north of Tyrone should be designated as a spur of I-80 when that
connection ever happens but in the meantime keep it just US 220, and if
it's ever finished to I-80 then re-designate it north of Altoona as
that spur or multiplex it with the I-76 spur.
--
Rich Dean, Butler NJ, member of many Usenet Newsgroups and mailing
lists; founder of Egroups.com lists for ButlerNJArea, NJ_Area_Railpics,
NorthAmericanParades and NorthJerseyVolFire; member of many other email
lists.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Bessert
>
> Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
> it not even a good idea to build this road?
> -Pete
Oh, the road's fine. The US-220 shields alongside that road were fine,
too. That ain't the problem, IMHO. My beef is that folks in congress
should be worrying about the laws of this nation (they *are* the legis-
lative branch, aren't they?) and leave the executive branch stuff to
the executive branch. Let the folks at the AASHTO, FHWA, USDOT,
PennDOT, etc., etc., etc., do their own jobs! We don't pay transpor-
tation planners and engineers to sit around at let some blowhard in
congress do their jobs for them, so let 'em do what they're supposed
to do! Approving extra money for some 'high-priority corridors' is just
fine... just leave the numbering and other technical details to those
who know what they're doing.
And I don't give a rat's behind what Bud's favorite number is. Let
him bet it in the state lottery for all I care...
But, that's just one person's opinion...
Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/Hwys/
Adam Prince
"Chris Bessert" <Bess...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:39D3CB09...@aol.com...
> And I don't give a rat's behind what Bud's favorite number is. Let
> him bet it in the state lottery for all I care...
Can't do that Nick Perry beat him to it in 1979 (or was it 1980). What
mtr'sknow what I mean when I mention Nick Perry and the PA lottery
A J Harris
1. I would build a real interchange at I-76.
2. I would renumber it I-976.
In article <st7f77i...@corp.supernews.com>,
"mrpete" <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote:
> Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it?
Or was
> it not even a good idea to build this road?
> -Pete
>
>
--
My Miscellaneous Web Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com
A Miscellaneous Roadgeek Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com/docs/roads
SP Cook
mrpete <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:st7f77i...@corp.supernews.com...
> Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or
was
> it not even a good idea to build this road?
>
US 220. Same with I-73/74 in NC.
TEXAS
> > Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it?
PA 50385. Why not?
Chris Bessert
>
> >Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it?
>
What would you do with the current I-176 into Reading, PA?
Jeff Kitsko
Take that sugguestion from my site? :-)
As I have said on my I 99 page, it would be fine to just give it an I-x76
designation.
Jeff Kitsko
Pennsylvania Highways: http://www.pahighways.com/
Pittsburgh Highways: http://www.pahighways.com/pghhwys/
TommyAB333
I would call it I-176
(if, for some reason, it can't be that, then it should be another form of 70 or
76 spur. Such as 570, or 976)
Jeff Kitsko
Um, that would be a little problem for the other one in eastern PA:
http://www.pahighways.com/IHwys/I176.html
I-85 Roadrunner
"SP Cook" <PAC...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> mrpete <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:st7f77i...@corp.supernews.com...
> was
> > it not even a good idea to build this road?
> >
>
> US 220. Same with I-73/74 in NC.
No, keep I-73 in NC and drop I-74, snip US 220 south of Greensboro.
Start 73 at the I-77 interchange in Mt. Airy and send I-73 into SC to
at least I-95 between Dillon and Florence SC (but really needs to go to
Myrtle Beach), there needs to be a eastern most way of avoiding
Charlotte, believe me. Otherwise, drop the rest of I-73 in the Midwest.
As for the original post:
As much as I-99 is a dark cloud, I see a silver lining. WE ALL like to
dwell on current day traffic counts. I've been on I-99 and its lightly
traveled. However, if this road ever makes it to I-68 and I-80 (or
further north) this could become a very important road......And busy.
Think, the population is growing in the US and we best be prepared.
Besides, I-99 may make it into the deep south one day and actually
cross over I-95, theres many instances of this in the US.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> >I would call it I-176
>
> Um, that would be a little problem for the other one in eastern PA:
> http://www.pahighways.com/IHwys/I176.html
Since there is already a I-176 and a I-376, call it I-576.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
David Jensen
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@mediaone.net> wrote in
<39D3FEED...@mediaone.net>:
>jjki...@aol.comNOI-99 (Jeff Kitsko) wrote:
>>
>> >I would call it I-176
>>
>> Um, that would be a little problem for the other one in eastern PA:
>> http://www.pahighways.com/IHwys/I176.html
>
>Since there is already a I-176 and a I-376, call it I-576.
This is Penna. and they have Bud--I vote I-1776.
James C. Schul
mrpete wrote:
>
> Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
> it not even a good idea to build this road?
> -Pete
Either of these:
1. US 220 (like always!)
2. I-170
3. I-776
Dr.Mike
Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.netNOMETRICSPAM> wrote in message
news:Q0QA5.10097$tl2.7...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
...
>
> Can't do that Nick Perry beat him to it in 1979 (or was it 1980). What
> mtr'sknow what I mean when I mention Nick Perry and the PA lottery
That was the 666 fix, right?
stéphane dumas
was it not even a good idea to build this road?
>> -Pete
>
>Either of these:
>
>1. US 220 (like always!)
>2. I-170
since there no 3di l-70 who are used in PA there a lots of possibilities to
use a 3di l-x70
>3. I-776
a good possibility as well there also l-976 or l-576 to use
Stéphane Dumas steph...@videotron.ca
Brandon M. Gorte
: Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
: it not even a good idea to build this road?
US-220 sounds like a good number to me. However, if it 'needed' and
I-number, then (eastern) I-72 as it's north of I-70.
Brandon Gorte - bmg...@hotmail.com - Joliet, IL
- bmg...@mtu.edu - MTU, Houghton, MI
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bmgorte/freeway.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our lady of blessed acceleration don't fail me now!" - Elwood Blues
Jeff Kitsko
>I-number, then (eastern) I-72 as it's north of I-70.
But the alignment is north-south, so it would need an odd first number for a
2di designation.
BCBA
Adam Prince
"Dr.Mike" <mike...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8r1s28$m...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
>
> Adam Prince <apri...@worldnet.att.netNOMETRICSPAM> wrote in message
> news:Q0QA5.10097$tl2.7...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> ...
> >
> > Can't do that Nick Perry beat him to it in 1979 (or was it 1980). What
> > mtr'sknow what I mean when I mention Nick Perry and the PA lottery
>
>
> That was the 666 fix, right?
Ding! Ding! We have a winner!.....They even made a tv movie about it....
>
>
Dan Garnell
Rich Dean <richard...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <st7f77i...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "mrpete" <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote:
> > Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it?
> Or was
> > it not even a good idea to build this road?
>
> We get into big discussions on I-99 every so often. One time it
> resulted in something like 100 responses. Since there aren't any
> replies yet as I read the message I guess I will.
>
> My feeling is that the section that the section from I-76 north to
> Tyrone should be a spur of that route along with US 220. The freeway
> north of Tyrone should be designated as a spur of I-80 when that
> connection ever happens but in the meantime keep it just US 220, and if
> it's ever finished to I-80 then re-designate it north of Altoona as
> that spur or multiplex it with the I-76 spur.
I definitely agree. It could work as either a spur of I-76 or, once it's
done near there, I-80. My personal opinion would be either I-576 or I-580.
Dan
H.B. Elkins
>Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
>it not even a good idea to build this road?
Eventually, I-99 (which is a/k/a Appalachian Regional Commission
Corridor O) will extend from I-68 near Cumberland, Md., to I-80 north
of State College, Pa.
This route is too long to be a three-digit interstate route, yet is
deserving of interstate status. Since all the available two-digit
numbers were taken, 99 is the only number which could have been
assigned to the highway -- unless they could have found a number to
split, such as I-76 has two branches.
You can research Deja News or any of the other archives to see my
defense of the ARC highway system. This road has been planned for more
than 30 years, and if it's not a good idea to build it, then it wasn't
a good idea to build I-26 in North Carolina, US 23, US 50, OH 32, US
119, US 19, and so on...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net
http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins
"It is time for them to go." -- Dick Cheney, on Clinton/Gore
Earnhardt, D. Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but North Carolina
To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rob
Start with I-99. Extend it south along US-220 all the way to Roanoke. Then
turn east and follow US-460 and US-360 to Richmond. Now turn north and follow
US-301 to Annapolis, I-97 to Baltimore, and I-83 to Harrisburg. Keep going
north along US-15 to I-180, then connect back to US-220 and turn south to the
other end of I-99.
Now you have a circular interstate. Since there is no numbering convention for
interstates with this configuration, you can't say that "I-99" violates it!
I know, it's really dumb.
So here's a better idea. Follow US-220 all the way south to Greensboro, then
straight on south to Charleston, SC. Nice.
mrpete wrote:
> Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
> it not even a good idea to build this road?
> -Pete
--
___
/ --___
( \_
/- \
/| | \
/ |/ |
/ |
\ _/
/ "The" / ___
\ Rob | / \
\ McCaleb \_/ |
| |
| |
/ * _/
/ /
/ Haslett, MI /
/____________-------/
David Jensen
hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net (H.B. Elkins) wrote in
<39d4bb6c...@news.newsguy.com>:
>"mrpete" <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote:
>
>>Sure, none of us like I-99. What would the rest of you numbered it? Or was
>>it not even a good idea to build this road?
>
>Eventually, I-99 (which is a/k/a Appalachian Regional Commission
>Corridor O) will extend from I-68 near Cumberland, Md., to I-80 north
>of State College, Pa.
>
>This route is too long to be a three-digit interstate route, yet is
>deserving of interstate status. Since all the available two-digit
>numbers were taken, 99 is the only number which could have been
>assigned to the highway -- unless they could have found a number to
>split, such as I-76 has two branches.
>
>You can research Deja News or any of the other archives to see my
>defense of the ARC highway system. This road has been planned for more
>than 30 years, and if it's not a good idea to build it, then it wasn't
>a good idea to build I-26 in North Carolina, US 23, US 50, OH 32, US
>119, US 19, and so on...
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++
>H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net
>http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins
>"It is time for them to go." -- Dick Cheney, on Clinton/Gore
>Earnhardt, D. Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but North Carolina
>To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++
We wouldn't have had this problem if AAHSTO had started in the middle
(say Mason Dixon and the Mississippi) and done a wraparound, following
the same direction as the USHighways. Eg. I-70 would be I-10, I-64 would
be I-20, I-40 would be I-30, I-20, would be I-40, and I-10 would be
I-50, I-94 would be I-60; I-90, I-70, and I-80 would be unchanged.
The NS routes would be I-55 becomes I-5, I-35, I-15; I-25, unchanged;
I-15, I-35; I-5, I-45; I-95, I-55; I-85 becomes I-65; I-75 becomes I-85
and I-65 becomes I-95.
Route conflicts go away.
SPUI
"H.B. Elkins" <hbel...@restrictorplates.mis.net> wrote in message
news:39d4bb6c...@news.newsguy.com...
> You can research Deja News or any of the other archives to see my
> defense of the ARC highway system. This road has been planned for more
> than 30 years, and if it's not a good idea to build it, then it wasn't
> a good idea to build I-26 in North Carolina, US 23, US 50, OH 32, US
> 119, US 19, and so on...
Any reason why I-99 was built as a freeway rather than corridor standard?
--
Daniel Moraseski - from Orlando FL, originally from Manalapan NJ
Now attending MIT (Cambridge MA (near Boston))
http://spui.cjb.net/index.html - FL NJ and Boston roads, and a list of SPUIs
Editor of http://roadlinks.cjb.net (highway cat of Open Directory Project)
Bob Johnson
"SPUI" <sp...@mit.NOSPDAMMedu> wrote:
> Any reason why I-99 was built as a freeway rather than corridor
standard?
1. Future traffic growth.
2. Surface routes of 220 are slow and cannot be improved much.
3. Controlled access highways are the only way to drive at a decent
average speed in hilly terrain.
Between slow town streets and long periods of following 20 mph trucks on
uphill grades, the old 220 is no fun. I made way too many trips down
the old 220 to like it -- it's a poor road for long distance travel.
Bob Johnson
Jon Morse
>This route is too long to be a three-digit interstate route, yet is
>deserving of interstate status. Since all the available two-digit
>numbers were taken, 99 is the only number which could have been
>assigned to the highway -- unless they could have found a number to
>split, such as I-76 has two branches.
Of course, the only numbers which could be reasonable candidates for a split
designation would be those which either end north of I-80 or south of I-68;
that leaves us with I-85, I-89, I-91, and I-93. (Maybe I-87, depending on your
view of things...)
But, again of course, none of those fit the numbering scheme. NO 2di fits the
numbering scheme, since I-99 is between I-79 and I-81. I've seen people here
actually support the US 219 as I-67 plan, and I have to point out: I-67 is
almost as "wrong" as I-99 is.
Since HB is right - once completed, this deserves to be a 2di - may as well
just leave it alone.
Jon Morse
Herndon, VA
via lots of much larger places
SPUI
"Bob Johnson" <re_jo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8r2t7r$f0j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <39d4ef68$0$94...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
> "SPUI" <sp...@mit.NOSPDAMMedu> wrote:
>
> > Any reason why I-99 was built as a freeway rather than corridor
> standard?
>
> 1. Future traffic growth.
>
> 2. Surface routes of 220 are slow and cannot be improved much.
>
> 3. Controlled access highways are the only way to drive at a decent
> average speed in hilly terrain.
>
> Between slow town streets and long periods of following 20 mph trucks on
> uphill grades, the old 220 is no fun. I made way too many trips down
> the old 220 to like it -- it's a poor road for long distance travel.
Corridor standard is not 2 lane roads. Corridor standard is 4 lane divided
with occasional at-grade intersections, like US 19 in WV. It is usually new
alignment like a freeway.
A J Harris
jjki...@aol.comNOI-99 (Jeff Kitsko) wrote:
> >2. I would renumber it I-976.
>
> Take that sugguestion from my site? :-)
Yep. You had a great idea on numbering I-99.
>
> As I have said on my I 99 page, it would be fine to just give it an
I-x76
> designation.
>
> Jeff Kitsko
> Pennsylvania Highways: http://www.pahighways.com/
> Pittsburgh Highways: http://www.pahighways.com/pghhwys/
>
--
My Miscellaneous Web Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com
A Miscellaneous Roadgeek Site
http://www.ajh.htmlplanet.com/docs/roads
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> > jjki...@aol.comNOI-99 (Jeff Kitsko) wrote:
> >>
> >> >I would call it I-176
> >>
> >> Um, that would be a little problem for the other one in eastern PA:
> >> http://www.pahighways.com/IHwys/I176.html
> >
> >Since there is already a I-176 and a I-376, call it I-576.
>
> This is Penna. and they have Bud--I vote I-1776.
Back around the time of the Bicentennial in 1976, for several years, the
Pennsylvania Turnpike's maps also called the Turnpike the "Bicentennial
Highway".
SPUI
"Adam Froehlig" <fro...@mississippi.net> wrote in message
news:39D534B4...@mississippi.net...
>SPUI wrote:
>>> 3. Controlled access highways are the only way to drive at a decent
>>> average speed in hilly terrain.
>>>
>>> Between slow town streets and long periods of following 20 mph trucks on
>>> uphill grades, the old 220 is no fun. I made way too many trips down
>>> the old 220 to like it -- it's a poor road for long distance travel.
>>Corridor standard is not 2 lane roads. Corridor standard is 4 lane divided
>>with occasional at-grade intersections, like US 19 in WV. It is usually
new
>>alignment like a freeway.
"corridor >standard".
Basically CA type expressway standard, a freeway with at grade intersections
instead of interchanges. Like all the ARC corridors in WV.
Chris Bessert
>
> >US-220 sounds like a good number to me. However, if it 'needed' and
> >I-number, then (eastern) I-72 as it's north of I-70.
>
> But the alignment is north-south, so it would need an odd first number for a
> 2di designation.
...and it would have to fall between 79 and 81... Well, since that's
not possible, there's no way a "correct" number can be assigned to this
highway, so ya might as well go with something in the seventies! Plus,
there's somewhat of a precedent in I-82 in Washington and Oregon, which
really does run in a north-south manner, IMHO.
Later,
Chris
Kinu Panda
>
> Take that sugguestion from my site? :-)
>
Actually, I had the same idea too for I-976. Of course, I got it from
watching that really cheesy movie, "976-EVIL". It made me think of Bud
immediately. "Son of 76" (sounds kind of patriotic) or "76 Goes to
Hell" would also have been good, but AASHTO doesn't approve of
suffixes, let alone big words and bad cliches. Now that I think about
it, those would make good titles for the Bud Shuster story, and I
hereby copyright them if CBS ever makes a movie about him.
Kinu
--
Kinu Panda
Corridor KHS
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~sp246/corridor/
kin...@yahoo.com
Froggie
> Basically CA type expressway standard, a freeway with at
> grade intersections instead of interchanges. Like all the
> ARC corridors in WV.
So how does this relate to I-99? (the subject at hand)
Froggie | Lauderdale, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
SPUI
"Froggie" <fro...@mississippi.net> wrote in message
news:8r5ft6$afb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Basically CA type expressway standard, a freeway with at
> > grade intersections instead of interchanges. Like all the
> > ARC corridors in WV.
>
> So how does this relate to I-99? (the subject at hand)
I'm wondering why US 220 was upgraded to full freeway rather than
corridor/expressway standards.
Bob Johnson
"SPUI" <sp...@mit.NOSPDAMMedu> wrote:
> I'm wondering why US 220 was upgraded to full freeway rather than
> corridor/expressway standards.
1. I never heard of corridor/expressway standards before. That's a new
terminology for me.
2. Every road I've driven on that is built that way feels dangerous.
Every at-grade intersection on a highway that is otherwise built for
through traffic at speed looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
3. In hilly terrain, it would be a killer of average speed with slow
accelerating trucks holding everybody back.
Froggie
> I'm wondering why US 220 was upgraded to full freeway rather than
> corridor/expressway standards.
Along that line of reasoning, why is US 78 in MS/AL being upgraded to
full freeway rather than corridor/expressway standards...
One reason is because the traffic is there. I've been on US 220/I-
99...and even during the weekend, it has a decent traffic load.
Also, upgrading US 220 to freeway seems to follow PennDOT's SOP...(look
at parts of US 1, US 15, or PA 60, for examples)
You might want to use a term other than "corridor standards".
Evidentally, I'm not the only one getting confused about it.
Froggie | Lauderdale, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Chris Bessert
>
> You might want to use a term other than "corridor standards".
> Evidentally, I'm not the only one getting confused about it.
Well, the other accepted 'technical' term for a limited-access highway
with access only at selected crossroads and some interchanges and a
somewhat reasonable design speed is "expressway," which, as we've seen
here lately, can cause other problems. In many states, this wouldn't
be an issue, but in Pennsylvania "expressway" and "Expressway" aren't
always the same thing.
I guess no matter how it's put, it'll be unfamiliar or confusing to
some. Any ideas?
Jeff Kitsko
>corridor/expressway standards.
Because of the amount of truck traffic that was using US 220; most notably coal
truck traffic. You know how it is to be stuck behind one of those. It was
better to build a 4 lane expressway on a new alignment because the original one
was too narrow and went thru too many little towns.
Winston969
>Well, the other accepted 'technical' term for a limited-access highway
>with access only at selected crossroads and some interchanges and a
>somewhat reasonable design speed is "expressway," which, as we've seen
>here lately, can cause other problems. In many states, this wouldn't
>be an issue, but in Pennsylvania "expressway" and "Expressway" aren't
>always the same thing.
>
>I guess no matter how it's put, it'll be unfamiliar or confusing to
>some. Any ideas?
What about superhighway? It could cover expressways/freeways, and Throughway
could cover western arterial style.
Winston Brownlow
SPUI
> Also, upgrading US 220 to freeway seems to follow PennDOT's SOP...(look
> at parts of US 1, US 15, or PA 60, for examples)
>
> You might want to use a term other than "corridor standards".
> Evidentally, I'm not the only one getting confused about it.
People don't get confused when HB uses it - he must use his evil right wing
mind control :)
SPUI
"Jeff Kitsko" <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20001001130756...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> >I'm wondering why US 220 was upgraded to full freeway rather than
> >corridor/expressway standards.
>
> Because of the amount of truck traffic that was using US 220; most notably
coal
> truck traffic. You know how it is to be stuck behind one of those. It
was
> better to build a 4 lane expressway on a new alignment because the
original one
> was too narrow and went thru too many little towns.
I'm not saying it should have been kept on the original alignment - this is
almost never done when new ARC corridors are built. A new alignment is built
with occasional intersections, and major roads do get interchanges. Another
example would be US 301 on the eastern shore of MD.
Bob Johnson
"SPUI" <sp...@mit.NOSPDAMMedu> wrote:
>
> "Jeff Kitsko" <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
> news:20001001130756...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> > >I'm wondering why US 220 was upgraded to full freeway rather than
> > >corridor/expressway standards.
> >
> > Because of the amount of truck traffic that was using US 220; most
notably
> coal
> > truck traffic. You know how it is to be stuck behind one of those.
It
> was
> > better to build a 4 lane expressway on a new alignment because the
> original one
> > was too narrow and went thru too many little towns.
>
> I'm not saying it should have been kept on the original alignment -
this is
> almost never done when new ARC corridors are built. A new alignment is
built
> with occasional intersections, and major roads do get interchanges.
Another
> example would be US 301 on the eastern shore of MD.
I'm familiar with the existing road and the terrain. There wouldn't be
much point to building a new road that isn't controlled access. And
the drawback of those "occasional" intersections would be huge.
See the other threads on those strobed red lights for one reason.
SPUI
> In article <39d7b421$0$94...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
> I'm familiar with the existing road and the terrain. There wouldn't be
> much point to building a new road that isn't controlled access. And
> the drawback of those "occasional" intersections would be huge.
>
> See the other threads on those strobed red lights for one reason.
Any roads which have enough traffic for a light would get an interchange.
But overpasses wouldn't have to be built for every little road. See US 301
on the eastern shore of MD.
SPUI
> Too dangerous. Rolling to steep hilly terrain; no good sight lines for
> these 'insignificant' intersections. Designing such a road would be a
> dangerous half-measure. I'm glad nobody involved proposed an idea that
> unsuitable for that highway.
Many roads in KY and WV are done like this. I haven't heard of any problems.
Anyone else have info?
SPUI
"Winston969" <winst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001001215217...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> >See US 301
> >on the eastern shore of MD.
>
http://spui.cjb.net/freeway/us301.html
"Interestingly there are also no traffic lights (but lots of blinkers); when
traffic gets heavy enough for a light an interchange is built."
Also if you scroll to the end of the exit list you can see how there are
lots of intersections and a few interchanges.
Bob Johnson
> > In article <39d7b421$0$94...@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
>
> > I'm familiar with the existing road and the terrain. There wouldn't
be
> > much point to building a new road that isn't controlled access.
And
> > the drawback of those "occasional" intersections would be huge.
> >
> > See the other threads on those strobed red lights for one reason.
>
> Any roads which have enough traffic for a light would get an
interchange.
301
> on the eastern shore of MD.
Too dangerous. Rolling to steep hilly terrain; no good sight lines for
these 'insignificant' intersections. Designing such a road would be a
dangerous half-measure. I'm glad nobody involved proposed an idea that
unsuitable for that highway.
Winston969
>on the eastern shore of MD.
How is that one done?
Winston Brownlow
Froggie
> What about superhighway? It could cover
> expressways/freeways, and Throughway could cover
> western arterial style.
I was thinking more along the lines of "fully-controlled" or "partially-
controlled", myself...
Froggie | Lauderdale, MS | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
H.B. Elkins
>
>> Basically CA type expressway standard, a freeway with at
>> grade intersections instead of interchanges. Like all the
>> ARC corridors in WV.
>
>So how does this relate to I-99? (the subject at hand)
Because I-99 is an Applachian Regional Commission corridor.
Not all "corridors" are built to "corridor standards." Much of
corridors F, I, J, and others, are only two lanes with truck lanes on
the hills.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net
http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins
"It is time for them to go." -- Dick Cheney, on Clinton/Gore
Earnhardt, D. Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but North Carolina
To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Doug Reuben / www.interpage.net
In a post re: I-99 in PA:
H.B. Elkins wrote in message <39d886ed...@news.newsguy.com>...
>Froggie <fro...@mississippi.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Basically CA type expressway standard, a freeway with at
>>> grade intersections instead of interchanges. Like all the
>>> ARC corridors in WV.
>>
>>So how does this relate to I-99? (the subject at hand)
>
>Because I-99 is an Applachian Regional Commission corridor.
>
>Not all "corridors" are built to "corridor standards." Much of
>corridors F, I, J, and others, are only two lanes with truck lanes on
>the hills.
Speaking of construction standards on I-99, I recently drove down from State
College to see what progress has been made, and I'm at a loss to see any
major work on I-99 northward to US-322.
Although a good deal of work has been done to significantly upgrade US-322,
as well as an improved interchange to I-80 (or so it seems,I hope they do
this right and avoid lame tradeoffs like some signal lights from US-322 to
I-80), I see no evidence on work on the stretch from where I-99 now ends to
where the work on US-322/US-220 is occuring, and the traffic on US-220 seems
to be significantly worse than just two years ago (the last time I was
there).
Is there some schedule for this work completion? Or is the Penn TPke
Authority hoping to stick a toll up on the new section and get a piece of
the action like they did in Southwestern PA...? ;(
Regards,
-Doug
Chris Bessert
>
> >
> >Well, the other accepted 'technical' term for a limited-access highway
> >with access only at selected crossroads and some interchanges and a
> >somewhat reasonable design speed is "expressway," which, as we've seen
> >here lately, can cause other problems. In many states, this wouldn't
> >be an issue, but in Pennsylvania "expressway" and "Expressway" aren't
> >always the same thing.
> >
> >I guess no matter how it's put, it'll be unfamiliar or confusing to
> >some. Any ideas?
>
> could cover western arterial style.
Big problem... "superhighway" is an even more broad term than either
freeway or expressway (their technical/denotative meanings), encom-
passing both, and much more. As defined by others here in past threads,
"superhighway" has many meanings and is more imprecise than most other
terms, outside of "highway" or "roadway."
Just Mike
one of my all time favorite highways, US-15, is expressway from Corning to
Williamsport (VERY shortly, in road years), and US-220 is finished to I-99,
calling the whole thing I-186?
That IS silly.
But a future thread?
Disclaimer:"The above post is just the opinion of the writer and is no way
meant to hurt the feelings of the overly sensitive. Everyone knows what
opinions are like..."
Just Mike
Buffalo,NY
Save US Routes! Stop Decommissioning!
David Jensen
Chris Bessert <Bess...@aol.com> wrote in <39D95CBF...@aol.com>:
Do autoroute, autopista, autobahn, autostrada or motorway have those
problems in Europe?
Jeff Kitsko
>Authority hoping to stick a toll up on the new section and get a piece of
>the action like they did in Southwestern PA...? ;(
>
For information on this, see my I 99 page:
http://www.pahighways.com/IHwys/I99.html
Chris Bessert
>
> Chris Bessert>:
>
> >Winston969 wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Well, the other accepted 'technical' term for a limited-access highway
> >> >with access only at selected crossroads and some interchanges and a
> >> >somewhat reasonable design speed is "expressway," which, as we've seen
> >> >here lately, can cause other problems. In many states, this wouldn't
> >> >be an issue, but in Pennsylvania "expressway" and "Expressway" aren't
> >> >always the same thing.
> >> >
> >> >I guess no matter how it's put, it'll be unfamiliar or confusing to
> >> >some. Any ideas?
> >>
> >> What about superhighway? It could cover expressways/freeways, and Throughway
> >> could cover western arterial style.
> >
> >Big problem... "superhighway" is an even more broad term than either
> >freeway or expressway (their technical/denotative meanings), encom-
> >passing both, and much more. As defined by others here in past threads,
> >"superhighway" has many meanings and is more imprecise than most other
> >terms, outside of "highway" or "roadway."
>
> problems in Europe?
My guess is that the terms listed above would *roughly* equate to the
"freeway" and "expressway" terms here in North America, which have
generally well-defined meanings (at least technically). "Superhighway"
has had many meanings over the decades, and still encompasses almost
anything over a normal two-lane road, especially if it's divided. I
don't know if there is any term in Europe that would have the same
definition as "superhighway" does here, but then again, I'm not from
Europe and would be interested in hearing from anyone who with more
familiarity there.
Winston969
My guess is that the terms listed above would *roughly* equate to the
"freeway" and "expressway" terms here in North America, which have
generally well-defined meanings (at least technically). "Superhighway"
has had many meanings over the decades, and still encompasses almost
anything over a normal two-lane road, especially if it's divided. I
don't know if there is any term in Europe that would have the same
definition as "superhighway" does here, but then again, I'm not from
Europe and would be interested in hearing from anyone who with more
familiarity there.
-------------------------------------------------
Nope your wrong. At least in France, autoroute is a class, not type, of road,
one that is run by a company and usually has tolls collected thereon. It the
supreme type of road in France, much like the Interstate system here. A good
analogy is Michigan. Interstates are always expressways, whereas US roads are
sometimes expressways. It is the same in France. Autoroutes are always
expressways, whereas Routes Nationals are sometimes expressways.
Winston Brownlow
Chris Bessert
Of course, with the caveat that Michigan's "expressways" are "free-
ways." Our "expressways" are those highways which have *partial* control
of access (only at select crossroads and interchanges). Sure, we have
very few "expressways," (esp. when compared with neighboring states of
Ohio and Wisconsin), but there are a few here and there around Michigan.
The MDSH/MDOT decided to just "go all the way" in the first place and
make 'em all freeways.
Winston's just using New York-New England terminology. Didn't want any-
one to get confused!
David J. Greenberger
> I would have just kept it US-220...that seems fine to me. But how
> about, when one of my all time favorite highways, US-15, is expressway
> from Corning to Williamsport (VERY shortly, in road years), and US-220
> is finished to I-99, calling the whole thing I-186?
Sounds good. While we're at it, extend I-186 up the NY 13 corridor as
far as I-81 (or beyond).
--
David J. Greenberger
Department of Computer Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
On the Road: http://david.twu.net/roads/
J.P. and Earl
"Jason L. Bennett" <j...@borg.com> wrote in message
news:39DA87C2...@borg.com...
> Silly is right. If the evil overlords have their way and
> expresswayize US 219 it should become I-186 north of I-86 to I-90.
> Then the current i-99/US 15-220 can become i386 and we can install
> Linux on it too.
Has building an expressway along the NY 16 corridor ever been considered by
anyone other than us road scholars?
J.P.
Winston969
>far as I-81 (or beyond).
That would require a long multiplex between 186 and 86 between Corning and
Elmira. Why not just not have 186 in NY at all since it would no purpose in NY
(considering that it would only be between Corning and the Penn Line) and just
build a Tompkins Expwy from Elmira to Cortland.
Winston Brownlow
Winston969
>ways." Our "expressways" are those highways which have *partial* control
>of access (only at select crossroads and interchanges). Sure, we have
>very few "expressways," (esp. when compared with neighboring states of
>Ohio and Wisconsin), but there are a few here and there around Michigan.
>The MDSH/MDOT decided to just "go all the way" in the first place and
>make 'em all freeways.
>
>Winston's just using New York-New England terminology. Didn't want any-
>one to get confused!
Thanks. We all needed that ;-). You just could not stand being wrong about the
autoroutes so you instead chose to focus on the freeway/expressway issue. Sigh
;-).
Winston Brownlow
Jason L. Bennett
>
> I would have just kept it US-220...that seems fine to me. But how about, when
> one of my all time favorite highways, US-15, is expressway from Corning to
> Williamsport (VERY shortly, in road years), and US-220 is finished to I-99,
> calling the whole thing I-186?
>
> That IS silly.
Silly is right. If the evil overlords have their way and
expresswayize US 219 it should become I-186 north of I-86 to I-90.
Then the current i-99/US 15-220 can become i386 and we can install
Linux on it too.
Jason L. Bennett
STE Exit 27 - Hinsdale, NY
future URE Exit 5 - Oriskany, NY
--
When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire
Department usually uses water.
Jason L. Bennett
>
> "Jason L. Bennett" <j...@borg.com> wrote in message
> news:39DA87C2...@borg.com...
> > expresswayize US 219 it should become I-186 north of I-86 to I-90.
> > Then the current i-99/US 15-220 can become i386 and we can install
> > Linux on it too.
>
> anyone other than us road scholars?
>
> J.P.
If you count my dad then yes. Actually, the idea had been considered
by the Hinsdale Town Board some time ago when they were looking for
was to start revitalizing the town. Then they heard I-86 was coming
to town. Nothing ever was said again. Still, I am always watchful
for that one last glimmer of hope that someone with two brain cells to
rub together in Albany will realize what NY 400 is all about.
vinnie...@my-deja.com
> PA 50385. Why not?
>
Because it doesn't fit Pennsylvania's state highway numbering scheme
(roughly, 4dpas are like County highways... SR 1xxx generally in the
NE of the county, 2xxx in the southeast, 3xxx in the southwest and 4xxx
in the northwest... there are no 5xxxx's)
Oh... by the way... sorry I've been away for a while and I took my road
site down... couldn't maintain it properly. Maybe I'll put it up again
at some point.
I did, however, put one up for my friends/readers. It's at
www.geocities.com/kevinolmstead (shhh... don't spoil it for all the
marks)
Jason L. Bennett
Welcome back Vinnie.
Jeff Kitsko
>(roughly, 4dpas are like County highways... SR 1xxx generally in the
>NE of the county, 2xxx in the southeast, 3xxx in the southwest and 4xxx
>in the northwest... there are no 5xxxx's)
There are also the 6xxx, 8xxx, and 9xxx series highways. Thanks PennDOT.
Chris Bessert
No, that wasn't it, but thanks for making up something anyway just so
that you'd sound like the martyr you've always wanted to be. :^(
vinnie...@my-deja.com
> Welcome back Vinnie.
>
Thankxs =-> Good to be back. Don't get much time to check out MTR much
anymore (which is good, as I've been busier at work, resulting in a
raise/quasi-promotion, plus wrestling more-- Rochester roadgeeks may
have recently seen Killer Kowalski Jr. kick the crap out of me on Big-
TV) .. though I hate Deja... gotta deal with it for now though.
Peace.
--
Visit the #1 site on the web
www.geocities.com/kevinolmstead
vinnie...@my-deja.com
> There are also the 6xxx, 8xxx, and 9xxx series highways. Thanks
PennDOT.
Those must be in the parts of PA where you have cities. We don't have
cities here.
--
Visit the #1 site on the web
www.geocities.com/kevinolmstead
Jeff Kitsko
>cities here.
Not really. 6xxx series is another designation for business routes, 8xxx
series are the exit ramps, and 9xxx are truck run-away ramps and jug-handles.
SPUI
"Jeff Kitsko" <jjki...@aol.comNOI-99> wrote in message
news:20001004190718...@ng-md1.aol.com...
> >Those must be in the parts of PA where you have cities. We don't have
> >cities here.
>
> Not really. 6xxx series is another designation for business routes, 8xxx
> series are the exit ramps, and 9xxx are truck run-away ramps and
jug-handles.
I think part of the US 15 freeway is 6015 and the business route is 0015.
Also one set of lanes on Roosevelt Blvd in Philly is 6001 I think.
--
Daniel Moraseski - from Orlando FL, originally from Manalapan NJ
Now attending MIT (Cambridge MA (near Boston))
http://spui.twu.net - FL NJ and Boston roads, and a list of SPUIs
Editor of http://roadlinks.cjb.net (highway cat of Open Directory Project)
vinnie...@my-deja.com
> I think part of the US 15 freeway is 6015 and the business route is
0015.
I'll have to shoot over to Mansfield this weekend and check that out. I
DO know that Business 15 is signed as SR 0015.