what is your GPS preference - North UP or TRACK UP?
Larry G
is confusing sometimes.
how about you?
Nathan Perry
<9bd38610-f187-4a18...@t17g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Larry G <gross...@gmail.com> wrote:
North up. I've been a reader of maps for many more years than of GPS, so
I have no trouble translating the cardinal directions into real life.
Plus, north-up orientation keeps a fixed point of reference, so that you
retain a directional awareness of where you are. It forces you to
understand where things are in relation to you, making you less a slave
to the GPS path. Track-up only tells you that you're facing forward.
North-up tells you also if you're facing south, west or whatever.
Heather
North Up, I used to be a student aviator until I was medically
grounded so you couldn't really turn the chart every which way, so it
had to be North Up and then with my car GPS it just stuck.
Larry Sheldon
Me too. North is up. Period.
However.
I made my first long trip with the Garmin the other day and found that I
was vaguely disconcerted at having the bug mve down all the way home.
I don't remember that with the Palm--but it occurs to me that I might
not have had a choice--forward is up.
Once I stopped to think about it the discomfort passed, but it was an
odd moment.
--
Somebody should have said:
A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting
the vote.
Requiescas in pace o email
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information: http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Froggie
North up. Haven't even bothered with track up.
Froggie | Alexandria, VA | http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/
Paul D. DeRocco
>
> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
> is confusing sometimes.
>
> how about you?
I don't use GPS nav, just a GPS track log, but I expect that "north up" is
generally best at most zoom levels, when you want to keep track of where you
are, as your mental map is generally "north up" as well. "Track up" might be
more appropriate when you're zoomed way in, and you want to see the shape of
the road and the intersections coming up.
--
Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
Paul mailto:pder...@ix.netcom.com
Otto Yamamoto
> I don't use GPS nav, just a GPS track log, but I expect that "north up"
> is generally best at most zoom levels, when you want to keep track of
> where you are, as your mental map is generally "north up" as well.
> "Track up" might be more appropriate when you're zoomed way in, and you
> want to see the shape of the road and the intersections coming up.
My satnav croaked here recently; and since there are rumours of our
company purchasing their own, I'm not buying another. There is a satnav
service available via Verizon for my Blackberry, and it suits my needs:
which is basically to call my attention to when my desired road is coming
up. V 5.0 of VZ Navigator can continue to navigate without a mobile signal
(though you can't start a new route), and it can route the audio
directions to my headset, so I rarely, if ever, look at the screen.
I prefer to track in the direction I'm moving. I have no sense of compass
points, really, though I can deduce my general direction by the position
of the sun in the day. One way I find things is by transposing features
on a map to what I see on the ground. Most of the time, I don't need a
satnav, looking at a static map of my destination is adequate for me to
find where I need to go.
--
Otto Yamamoto
Larry G
> On 4/20/2010 10:03, Heather wrote:
>
> > On Apr 20, 7:30 am, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
> >> is confusing sometimes.
>
> >> how about you?
>
> > North Up, I used to be a student aviator until I was medically
> > grounded so you couldn't really turn the chart every which way, so it
> > had to be North Up and then with my car GPS it just stuck.
>
> Me too. North is up. Period.
>
> However.
>
> I made my first long trip with the Garmin the other day and found that I
> was vaguely disconcerted at having the bug mve down all the way home.
>
> I don't remember that with the Palm--but it occurs to me that I might
> not have had a choice--forward is up.
>
> Once I stopped to think about it the discomfort passed, but it was an
> odd moment.
>
always want to know which compass direction I'm following.
But the other day.. sitting in a parking lot (and not the first
time)... I noticed that TRACK up was not oriented correctly, in fact
180% from the known landmarks but then when I switched it to NORTH
UP.. it correctly oriented...
But NORTH UP when I'm traveling.... can be pretty confusing visually
on the GPS screen when not zoomed out enough... i.e. when the zoom
level is tight.... it can show your movement in what seems to be an
opposite direction than intended.
Nathan Perry
Scott in SoCal <scotte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Last time on misc.transport.road, "Paul D. DeRocco"
> <pder...@ix.netcom.com> said:
>
> >> "Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
> >> is confusing sometimes.
> >>
> >> how about you?
> >
> >I don't use GPS nav, just a GPS track log, but I expect that "north up" is
> >generally best at most zoom levels, when you want to keep track of where you
> >are, as your mental map is generally "north up" as well.
>
> When you pull into the gas station to ask directions, has anyone ever
> given you "north up" directions? So why should your nav system?
Well, mine should because I'm using more as a map than as directions.
The directions I work out myself from information on the map, and I'm
more accustomed to reading a map north-up. For those people who do use
the GPS for its directions, the device will translate the directions
into track-oriented terms (left, right etc.) regardless of which way up
the map is.
Think of those times at the gas station when somebody gave
directions...did he pull out a map as well? If so, which way did he
orient it for you?
Larry G
> In article <eekvs51tu07lkkdvlcrf7afd9vkdsod...@4ax.com>,
> Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Last time on misc.transport.road, "Paul D. DeRocco"
>
> > >> "Larry G" <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > >> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
> > >> is confusing sometimes.
>
> > >> how about you?
>
> > >I don't use GPS nav, just a GPS track log, but I expect that "north up" is
> > >generally best at most zoom levels, when you want to keep track of where you
> > >are, as your mental map is generally "north up" as well.
>
> > When you pull into the gas station to ask directions, has anyone ever
> > given you "north up" directions? So why should your nav system?
>
> Well, mine should because I'm using more as a map than as directions.
> The directions I work out myself from information on the map, and I'm
> more accustomed to reading a map north-up. For those people who do use
> the GPS for its directions, the device will translate the directions
> into track-oriented terms (left, right etc.) regardless of which way up
> the map is.
>
> Think of those times at the gas station when somebody gave
> directions...did he pull out a map as well? If so, which way did he
> orient it for you?
I'm very familiar with and use TOPO maps quite often for non-road
navigation and use NORTH UP on my trail GPS but for some reason...
still chewing on it.. track up is easier to deal with at intersections
and ramps, etc... perhaps in part because when I'm on an unfamiliar
roads/intersections/ramps/etc.
Andrew Tompkins
> On Apr 20, 3:45 pm, Larry Sheldon<lfshel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/20/2010 10:03, Heather wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 20, 7:30 am, Larry G<gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
>>>> is confusing sometimes.
>>
>>>> how about you?
>>
>>> North Up, I used to be a student aviator until I was medically
>>> grounded so you couldn't really turn the chart every which way, so it
>>> had to be North Up and then with my car GPS it just stuck.
>>
>> Me too. North is up. Period.
>>
>> However.
>>
>> I made my first long trip with the Garmin the other day and found that I
>> was vaguely disconcerted at having the bug mve down all the way home.
>>
>> I don't remember that with the Palm--but it occurs to me that I might
>> not have had a choice--forward is up.
>>
>> Once I stopped to think about it the discomfort passed, but it was an
>> odd moment.
>>
> on paper maps and non sat-nav navigating... I'm a north-up person.. I
> always want to know which compass direction I'm following.
>
> But the other day.. sitting in a parking lot (and not the first
> time)... I noticed that TRACK up was not oriented correctly, in fact
> 180% from the known landmarks but then when I switched it to NORTH
> UP.. it correctly oriented...
>
That's because GPS is reactive to the last direction you moved in. If
you back into a parking spot, it will display as if you moved forward
into the parking spot because the last movement was into the parking spot.
Another similar situation:
If you are using it while walking, come to a stop and then turn, it will
not register the turn (ie. heading indications won't change) until you
actually start moving again. It doesn't act like a compass unless you
are actually moving.
--Andy
Andrew Tompkins
Chances are, this is because, while off-road, you use the GPS as a
supplement to the map and while on-road, you use it instead of the map
(at least most people do). When using a number of tools for navigation,
it usually works better to have them all oriented in the same direction.
When using maps, that usually means north-up. When using ground
reference, that usually means track-up or heading-up (for pilots or
mariners).
--Andy
Andrew Tompkins
Chances are, this is because, while off-road, you use the GPS as a
supplement to the map and while on-road, you use it instead of the map
(at least most people do). When using a number of tools for navigation,
it usually works better to have them all oriented in the same direction.
When using maps, that usually means north-up. When using ground
reference, that usually means track-up (or heading-up for pilots or
mariners).
--Andy
Larry G
do mariners/aviators use track up or north up? I thought Heather here
said North UP?
Andrew Tompkins
When I was a navigator in the Air Force, we didn't have GPS yet (and it
has essentially replaced the navigator in the aircraft since). We did
use radar which had a 3-position switch as to how the display was
oriented (north, heading and track -up). Generally, while ground
mapping for navigation, we used it in north-up for plotting positions on
the chart. While flying in groups, we could use the radar to skinpaint
the other aircraft in front of us and used it in track-up for station
keeping with relation to the lead aircraft.
I would say with GPS that they probably only use it in north-up as a
supplement to the chart. Since it can't skinpaint other aircraft, there
would be no need to use it in track-up. They would probably also use
other functions in the unit such as a cross track/track angle error
function (generally a visual display showing how far off course you are
and how quickly you are coming back to course or moving farther out,
something you wouldn't have much use for in a car as you don't have any
control over where the road goes).
--Andy
Larry G
> Last time on misc.transport.road, Andrew Tompkins
> <andy...@comcast.net> said:
>
> >> But the other day.. sitting in a parking lot (and not the first
> >> time)... I noticed that TRACK up was not oriented correctly, in fact
> >> 180% from the known landmarks but then when I switched it to NORTH
> >> UP.. it correctly oriented...
>
> >That's because GPS is reactive to the last direction you moved in. If
> >you back into a parking spot, it will display as if you moved forward
> >into the parking spot because the last movement was into the parking spot.
>
> portables: it knows when you're backing up.
well.. i did not back up.. in fact pulled forward into the parking
spot... and it was showing 180% wrong orientation... how does that
work?
Andrew Tompkins
Were you stopped for a while before noticing the wrong direction? If
so, perceived movement within the unit's circular error may account for
that.
--Andy
Larry G
yes stopped for a while but when I changed the Track UP to North
Up...without moving the vehicle.. it oriented correctly so .. it has
the ability to do that in North UP even if sitting still but will not
do so if in Track up...This is a Gramin... your mileage might vary...
Andrew Tompkins
That would be the expected display response. In North-up, north is
always up. It doesn't matter in which direction the last movement was
made or which direction the vehicle is pointed. In Track-up, the map
orientation is dependent on which direction the vehicle last moved (or
was perceived to have moved if motionless for a while).
Next time you get this behavior, leave it in Track-up. The next time
you move the vehicle, the map will quickly re-orient correctly based on
the movement of the vehicle.
--Andy
Larry G
well no... if the GPS unit has the internal ability to correctly
orient in one mode why would it not access that same capability from
the TRACK UP mode to properly orient for that mode?
the machine is acting like in TRACK UP it has no ability to properly
orient but it certainly does ...
as far as moving the vehicle to get it to proper orient...
consider.. you're in the parking lot.. having found a parking
place..and the wife has gone in to pick up an item and you..meanwhile
are setting the unit up for the next stop... and it's not oriented...
even though it has the ability to orient by simply using the NORTH up
functionality...so you have to move the car... lose the parking
place.. and still no guarantee than it will properly orient. right?
I understand why it can't orient properly in TRACK UP if the vehicle
isn't moving... but the GPS itself is able to properly orient if it
consults it's compass function so why does the NORTH up consult that
compass functionality and the TRACK UP does not?
Andrew Tompkins
OK, there's the problem. You're GPS may have a compass like display
page, but it is not a compass and does not have a compass built into it.
If you are walking east with your GPS device, the compass display will
show that you are moving east. If you stop then turn south, your GPS
compass display will continue to show that you are moving east until you
actually start moving again in the southerly direction at which time the
compass display with show that you are now moving south.
All directional information comes from the most recent points indicating
movement by the GPS device. This is why there is no Heading-up display
on GPS devices. It doesn't know what direction the vehicle is pointed
(heading). It only knows what direction the vehicle is (or was last)
actually moving (track). In a moving car, the only time that these will
be different is when the car is backing up. If you are pointed east but
backing up, your track (the direction you are moving) is west while your
heading (the direction the car is pointed) is east. The proper
orientation for Track-up, in this case, is west at the top. When you
shift to a forward gear and start moving again, your track will change
to east and the display for Track-up will properly orient to east at the
top. In all of the cases you've described for Track-up displays, they
have all been properly oriented with respect to the direction that the
vehicle was last moving (or perceived to have been moving).
As to why North-up orients properly, that has nothing to do with compass
direction either. That is how the standard data references on which
points are plotted are oriented.
--Andy
Larry G
for the GPS to correctly orient itself to NORTH - would it not need
the ability to know where NORTH is?
I'm not using the compass page at all.. only observing that when the
unit is in NORTH UP mode - even sitting still.. that it correctly
orients to NORTH.
because it does that - I'm assuming it knows where NORTH is.
I understand that the GPS when not moving can only place your lat/long
and does not know which direction you are pointing but I also know
that both SOME trail and SOME car GPS that has that compass
functionality can orient to NORTH.
The trail models that do not have the COMPASS feature are less
expensive and will not orient to NORTH if you are not moving.. been
there...done that...
Even the trail models WITH compass functionality may not orient to
NORTH if you are not moving but if not mistaken (may have to check),
my Garmin 76CSX will correctly orient to north even when not
moving...
and I'm pretty sure the GARMIN car unit will orient the map to north
while sitting still if it is in NORTH UP mode.
a few years back - none of the units - not the trail units and not the
car units could orient to NORTH while sitting still. I have 2 other
GPS trail units that will not orient to NORTH if standing still...
even though one of them actually has a COMPASS page.. it provides
bogus orientation unless you are moving.
Paul S Wolf
> for the GPS to correctly orient itself to NORTH - would it not need
> the ability to know where NORTH is?
No. It knows WHERE it is, and knows that North should be at the top of
the screen. That's all it needs to generate the image in "North Up" mode.
If you hold a paper map in your hands, you don't need to know where
North is to place North at the top of the piece of paper you are
holding. All you need to know is that the mapmaker designed the map with
North Up.
To "Orient" a map, however, (i.e. hold the map approximately horizontal
with North pointing north) you must know which way North is. That's
usually done by using the features you can see to identify which way the
map should point.
To display in "Track Up", which is equivalent to orienting a map, the
unit must identify which direction is North and which direction it is
moving.
--
Paul S. Wolf, PE, FITE mailto:paul....@alum.wpi.edu
Fellow, Institute of Transportation Engineers
Richard Carlson, N9JIG
comment: These are the best nav systems I have seen, built-in or
otherwise, IMHO!)
The wife prefers having "Heading-up" while I prefer "North Up", my guess
is that this is due to the general notion that women usually navigate in
the "Landmark" method and having the "Heading Up" method works toward
the relative position matrix they are wired on. (I also caught her
giving directions once to a relative from out of town telling them to
"Turn right where the Amoco station used to be". Think about that for a
second...)
I prefer the "North-up" method usually since I navigate more by cardinal
directions than relative directions. I give directions like "Go West on
68 to 53 then south" while my wife would say "Turn Right on Dundee Road
then take the second right ramp for the Expressway."
When I get into a town that for whatever reason I don't have a sense of
direction I will switch to "Heading up" navigation. For some reason I
never can get my bearings in Green Bay, it might have something to do
with the "V" shape of the town. Also for whatever reason Las Vegas
throws me, I always think of the Strip as running E-W, not N-S. Most of
the time however my internal compass works pretty well and I work fine
with "North-up"
Andrew Tompkins
> On Apr 24, 7:54 pm, Andrew Tompkins<andy...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> As to why North-up orients properly, that has nothing to do with compass
>> direction either. That is how the standard data references on which
>> points are plotted are oriented.
>>
>
> for the GPS to correctly orient itself to NORTH - would it not need
> the ability to know where NORTH is?
>
It already knows where North is through whatever base reference datum
(lat/long, one of the various WGS) that it does its plotting on which is
North-up by default. Since GPS uses one of these, it knows where North
is without doing any work at all.
Any spherical coordinate plotting system knows where its poles are and
one is usually chosen to be UP by default.
--Andy
Larry G
> On 4/25/2010 5:00 AM, Larry G wrote:
>
> > for the GPS to correctly orient itself to NORTH - would it not need
> > the ability to know where NORTH is?
>
> No. It knows WHERE it is, and knows that North should be at the top of
> the screen. That's all it needs to generate the image in "North Up" mode.
>
> If you hold a paper map in your hands, you don't need to know where
> North is to place North at the top of the piece of paper you are
> holding. All you need to know is that the mapmaker designed the map with
> North Up.
>
> To "Orient" a map, however, (i.e. hold the map approximately horizontal
> with North pointing north) you must know which way North is. That's
> usually done by using the features you can see to identify which way the
> map should point.
>
> To display in "Track Up", which is equivalent to orienting a map, the
> unit must identify which direction is North and which direction it is
> moving.
" No. It knows WHERE it is, and knows that North should be at the top
of
the screen. That's all it needs to generate the image in "North Up"
mode"
I'm having a brain fart here. Just because North is at the top of the
screen does not necessarily mean the car is pointed north. in fact..
North is not at the top of the screen if the car is not pointed
north ... that's describing track up - no?
the paper map always has NORTH at the top but you can lay that paper
map down with the top of the page pointed at any one of the 360
degrees and it certainly is not point north at that point.
the very first thing you do with a paper map is to get your compass
out and find North and then orient the top of your paper to north -
right?
Larry G
does not know where you are pointed until it does a second compass
function .. which I assume works similar to a manual compass... no?
Larry G
wrote:
if you are in an unfamiliar place.. and/or navigating such that you
may not know at each turn where the cardinal points are... and
especially that that road winds and turns or even temporary takes you
in the opposite cardinal direction until it swings around...
have you never listened to your satnav tell you to take the next right
and you're scratching your head...because it does not make sense?
maybe only me., eh?
we - my wife and I and the GPS lady have a trust but verify method of
navigation.
the old paper map comes out when things don't add up...
I usually run a 'pre-route' on GOGGLE before we leave... also
Larry Sheldon
> My wife and I both have Honda's with the built-in Nav system. (OT
> comment: These are the best nav systems I have seen, built-in or
> otherwise, IMHO!)
>
> The wife prefers having "Heading-up" while I prefer "North Up", my guess
> is that this is due to the general notion that women usually navigate in
> the "Landmark" method and having the "Heading Up" method works toward
> the relative position matrix they are wired on. (I also caught her
> giving directions once to a relative from out of town telling them to
> "Turn right where the Amoco station used to be". Think about that for a
> second...)
"Anecdote" is the singular for "data".....
I (of the male persuasion) see myself as a land-mark navigator and I've
committed the turn-where-something-used-to-be error while my daughter
(800,000 miles the other day in big trucks) almost invariably uses "mile
marker" notation, even when there are no "mile markers".
I don't think she has a GPS (no reason to--she has most of the North
American continent (below the ice cap) memorized. If she did, I have no
idea how she would set it up.
I use "north up" as I commented the other day.
I may have to try "Ahead up" just to test something that came to mind
the other day--on routes that look like they had been laid out using a
sinuous-course clock isn't it distracting to have the display flipping
about like a dying fish?
> When I get into a town that for whatever reason I don't have a sense of
> direction I will switch to "Heading up" navigation. For some reason I
> never can get my bearings in Green Bay, it might have something to do
> with the "V" shape of the town. Also for whatever reason Las Vegas
> throws me, I always think of the Strip as running E-W, not N-S. Most of
> the time however my internal compass works pretty well and I work fine
> with "North-up"
We lived in Sunnyvale for many years--the whole time the sun rose in the
south and set in the north.
Even though I knew it was wrong, I could never get my mental compass reset.
And correcting for the error in conversation was problematic because
others had the problem and I never knew when to correct and end up with
errors or not correct and have everything work.
I think it had to do with the fact that to get to my house from San
Francisco I had to tell people to head south on the Bayshore, then turn
south on Wolfe Road ....
--
Somebody should have said:
A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting
the vote.
Requiescas in pace o email
Ex turpi causa non oritur actio
Eppure si rinfresca
ICBM Targeting Information: http://tinyurl.com/4sqczs
http://tinyurl.com/7tp8ml
Andrew Tompkins
You're not listening. The GPS doesn't know what direction you are
pointed, period. It DOES NOT have a compass. It only knows what
direction you are moving. It calculates this based on the position
coordinates of the last 2 fixes that it took that showed movement.
--Andy
Larry G
speaking of listening.. here's what I said earlier: " yes stopped
Andrew Tompkins
Heard you the first time. And I've been spending the last 3 or 4 posts
explaining why both the North-up and the Track-up maps were oriented
correctly.
You seem to believe that a current direction based on the orientation of
the GPS with relation to the earth is needed to draw the maps. This is
not the case. All that is needed is a current position fix, the last
two fixes showing movement, the zoom level of the map page and the
stored mapping data itself.
The North-up map orients properly because the reference datum that GPS
uses is oriented to true north. This is the default orientation.
The Track-up map orients properly based on the direction of movement
between the last 2 fixes showing movement. This direction and the
current position are plugged into a rotation formula (which translates
from the reference datum to a temporary Track-up datum) that is then
used to replot the points on the map which is then redrawn. This has
nothing to do with the orientation of the GPS unit to the earth.
--Andy
Larry G
I understand that the reference datum is oriented to true north - just
as paper maps are but when displayed on the screen - how does the GPS
now which direction is north if not straight ahead?
part of the problem is that we're not communicating here. I have a
trail GPS - a Garmin 76csx that DOES HAVE an internal compass that can
be turned on and off and by standing still with the compass off the
map being shown is often in a wrong orientation relative to what the
map on the screen shows but when I turn on the internal compass, it
then orients correctly to north.
So I do know the issue.
My original observation was that after pulling into a parking place
with track up ..having the unit off and then turning it back on.. that
in the track up mode, it was oriented about 180 degrees from actual
and I was able to ascertain than by zooming out and checking some
nearby geographic land marks - like for instance the direction of
I-95 and a local reservoir.
I was a little perplexed why if it had this correct when I pulled in -
why it changed when I turned it off then on but I've seen this
behavior before..
but when I did change the mode to north up - it did change the map
orientation on the screen and in doing so ...correctly orienting the
screen with the current orientation of the car - relative to north..
as I recall...
I think what I need to do is go back and repeat this and I will and
report back so that I'm 100% sure of what I am relating...
Andrew Tompkins
It doesn't need to know how the screen is oriented to the rest of the
world. In North-up, North is always toward the top of the screen. You
can have the screen pointed in any direction you want, but North will
always be toward the top of the screen (I won't get into the details of
when you hold the screen upside down). In Track-up, your last known
(perceived) direction of movement will be toward the top of the screen.
Again, it doesn't matter how the screen is oriented to the rest of the
world.
>
> part of the problem is that we're not communicating here. I have a
> trail GPS - a Garmin 76csx that DOES HAVE an internal compass that can
> be turned on and off and by standing still with the compass off the
> map being shown is often in a wrong orientation relative to what the
> map on the screen shows but when I turn on the internal compass, it
> then orients correctly to north.
>
> So I do know the issue.
>
Be nice to know that at the appropriate time, like when I initially said
that GPS units don't have compasses 2 or 3 posts ago. hmm? With this
feature you probably either get an additional setting for Heading-up, or
Heading-up is substituted for Track-up. With this on, the GPS will use
the compass input to orient the screen to the rest of the world.
>
> My original observation was that after pulling into a parking place
> with track up ..having the unit off and then turning it back on.. that
> in the track up mode, it was oriented about 180 degrees from actual
> and I was able to ascertain than by zooming out and checking some
> nearby geographic land marks - like for instance the direction of
> I-95 and a local reservoir.
>
> I was a little perplexed why if it had this correct when I pulled in -
> why it changed when I turned it off then on but I've seen this
> behavior before..
>
Assuming that this is not the trail GPS mentioned above and does not
have a compass built in (ie. a more standard GPS), this is normal. When
you turn the GPS on, it syncs up with the current set of satellites
available and takes an initial fix. It will most likely not be in
exactly the same position as the final fix taken before you shut the GPS
down (due to circular error issues). It may place you farther into or
not as far into the parking spot, or in one of the spots next to you.
It takes this as movement and establishes a track between the two
positions as the last known direction of movement. If the unit is
initially in Track-up, this direction is used to decide what direction
is toward the top of the screen.
>
> but when I did change the mode to north up - it did change the map
> orientation on the screen and in doing so ...correctly orienting the
> screen with the current orientation of the car - relative to north..
> as I recall...
>
No. In North-up, it would orient the screen so that North is toward the
top of the screen.
--Andy
Larry G
close to it... perhaps.
but I knew that the trail compass had a internal compass and
understood the functionality and had observed it on and off and what
affect that had on the map screen.
I think I might have been assuming that the more scaled up units like
the Nuvi 850 I had ... did have an internal compass but because it's
designed for a non-trail-map-reading audience that they may not have
said much about it.
I did go back and check the owner manual and it did not speak of a
compass function.
Back to the parking lot.. this much I do know.. the map orientation
CHANGED when I fipped from TRACK to NORTH UP... I see what you are
talking about with respect to the map datum - on the screen verses the
cardinal direction the car is pointed in but what then does TRACK UP
Show if not the last position when turned off?
just random?
Also.. need to check.. but I do recall with my Tom Tom that in TRACK
UP .. it has a compass bearing indicator so you know which way is
north even in a track up orientation. That was helpful. I'm
thinking now that the Garmin does not ..
would you agree that Track UP with a compass indicator would be more
informative?
Andrew Tompkins
An internal compass has not been a standard feature in GPS units. I can
see how it would be helpful in trail units. Wouldn't be too useful in
on-the-road units as track and heading are the same except when the
vehicle is moving backwards or is standing still.
>
> Back to the parking lot.. this much I do know.. the map orientation
> CHANGED when I fipped from TRACK to NORTH UP... I see what you are
> talking about with respect to the map datum - on the screen verses the
> cardinal direction the car is pointed in but what then does TRACK UP
> Show if not the last position when turned off?
>
> just random?
>
Before the first fix is taken after turning the GPS back on, it will us
the last 2 recorded fixes to calculate a track. Once that first fix is
taken, that becomes the current position and only the last fix before
shutdown is used to calculate the track. Once you start moving, more
fixes are taken and you no longer need fixes from the previous session.
>
> Also.. need to check.. but I do recall with my Tom Tom that in TRACK
> UP .. it has a compass bearing indicator so you know which way is
> north even in a track up orientation. That was helpful. I'm
> thinking now that the Garmin does not ..
>
> would you agree that Track UP with a compass indicator would be more
> informative?
>
A North arrow is a good thing on any map display, even if it is North-up.
--Andy
Larry G
> Last time on misc.transport.road, "Richard Carlson, N9JIG"
> <use...@usenet.net> said:
>
> >My wife and I both have Honda's with the built-in Nav system. (OT
> >comment: These are the best nav systems I have seen, built-in or
> >otherwise, IMHO!)
>
>
> AFAIK, Honda navs are the only ones that allow your front-seat
> passenger to enter or change destinations while the car is moving.
> Every other manufacturer seems to think it needs to cover its
> corporate ass. :rolleyes:
>
> >The wife prefers having "Heading-up" while I prefer "North Up", my guess
> >is that this is due to the general notion that women usually navigate in
> >the "Landmark" method and having the "Heading Up" method works toward
> >the relative position matrix they are wired on. (I also caught her
> >giving directions once to a relative from out of town telling them to
> >"Turn right where the Amoco station used to be". Think about that for a
> >second...)
>
WTF.... ??? .. is this ????
re: physical location of GPS... I've settled on this
http://www.amazon.com/HandStands-Sticky-Pad-Dash-Mount/dp/B002RZLT4M
much better than window mount and when you park just move the whole
mess off the dash
Larry G
> Last time on misc.transport.road, Larry G <gross.la...@gmail.com>
> said:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 27, 11:03 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Last time on misc.transport.road, "Richard Carlson, N9JIG"
> >> <use...@usenet.net> said:
>
> >> >My wife and I both have Honda's with the built-in Nav system. (OT
> >> >comment: These are the best nav systems I have seen, built-in or
> >> >otherwise, IMHO!)
>
> >> In mine too.
>
> >> AFAIK, Honda navs are the only ones that allow your front-seat
> >> passenger to enter or change destinations while the car is moving.
> >> Every other manufacturer seems to think it needs to cover its
> >> corporate ass. :rolleyes:
>
> >> >The wife prefers having "Heading-up" while I prefer "North Up", my guess
> >> >is that this is due to the general notion that women usually navigate in
> >> >the "Landmark" method and having the "Heading Up" method works toward
> >> >the relative position matrix they are wired on. (I also caught her
> >> >giving directions once to a relative from out of town telling them to
> >> >"Turn right where the Amoco station used to be". Think about that for a
> >> >second...)
>
> >>http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2313356652_f2b27826c4.jpg
>
> >WTF.... ??? .. is this ????
>
and this!.... oh... DUH...
re: " Turn right where the Amoco station used to be". Think about that
for a
> >> >second."
when it comes to navigation... it's mars and venus for most men and
women...
I cannot tell you how many times my wife has said - "you were supposed
to turn there"..... and I ... "I was?, how did I know?"... "well, I
was busy reading the map and forget to tell you"... or .. one
minute she will give super explicit navigation directions ...then
start reading or something else and basically stop giving
directions ...
so.. that's why I bought a GPS.. because the gal in the GPS box does
not give explicit directions one minute and no directions the next..
she's pretty steady..
THOUGH us guys have to admit.. the gal in the GPS box does NOT say -
"go west on Route 25" either.... hmmm.... why is that?
I notice also - on the Garmin that I have ...that it allows the
configuration of North UP and Track up - according to the zoom
level... so if you zoomed out at the level you've set - you get
NORTH UP...but if you into to a tight zoom (per your setting) it
switches to TRACK UP... which is what you really need in heavy
traffic in a unfamiliar area....
Pete Jenior
"Larry G" <gross...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9bd38610-f187-4a18...@t17g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
> I've tried it both ways but I keep going back to TRACK UP as NORTH UP
> is confusing sometimes.
>
> how about you?
Track up (the default) drove me crazy, so I switched to north up. Then my
GPS got stolen...
Pete
Larry G
> Last time on misc.transport.road, "Pete Jenior"
> <pete.jen...@FILTERgmail.com> said:
>
>
>
> >"Larry G" <gross.la...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> the map in the direction of travel.
I've switch my unit back to NORTH UP for a while but am concluding
that a feature that is on my trail GPS .. a Garmin 76csx indicates
some discussion of this by it's designers.
Basically that feature will automatically switch the orientation on
the screen from North UP to Track UP when you zoom in to a default
(but can be changed) threshold.
The fact that they went through the trouble of extra programming to
support this tells me they probably had some interesting team
discussions leading up to the decision to provide that functionality.