Expressway Dining
Captain Sarcastic
the US. I know that in Pennsylvania, Burger King and McDonald's are
prevalent on the PA Turnpike. (Years ago, it was all Howard Johnson's.) On
the Delaware Turnpike (I-95), there is a Bob's Big Boy and a Sbarro.
Sbarros are also (at least they used to be) on the PA Turnpike as well.
Burger King is present on the NY State Thruway. Maryland also has Bob's Big
Boy on the JFK Memorial Highway (I-95). The Atlantic City Expressway has a
Farmer's Market on one of their food rest areas.
What else is out there? Just curious . . .
--
Remember 9-11-2001
Let's Roll!
Christopher Garlick
Masspike has Sbarro and MCdonalds I think.
"Captain Sarcastic" <capt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ebd...@news.starnetusa.net...
Sherman L. Cahal
The West Virginia Turnpike used to have Big Boy and I believe Burger King.
Today, I think all but one carries the Big Boy franchise with the Beckley
Plaza not since it was recently re-renovated. All plazas that I am aware of
in 2001 has TCBY, Bizarro Pizza and Burger King.
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Geoffrey William Hatchard
> I am curious about what food venues are offered on different tollways
across
> the US.
> What else is out there? Just curious . . .
Well, I travel the Ohio Turnpike monthly between Michigan and Pennsylvania,
and over the past 5 years, the new service areas that have been built are
giving travelers more choices for the old roadside meal. Check out
http://www.ohioturnpike.org/new_services.html for a list of all of the
service plazas. You can click on each and get a list of the amenities
available at each one. Some of the retailers include:
Burger King
McDonald's
Panera Bread
Starbucks
Max and Erma's
TCBY
Sbarro
Au Bon Pain
and there are others (you can read the website to find more). The older
plazas (those that haven't been rebuilt) generally had one restaurant, while
the new ones have more of a "food court" feel. They're all very nice, very
clean, and open and airy. Helps to break up the terrible monotony of the
trip from Youngstown to Toledo....
--
Geoff Hatchard
Cartography Graduate Student
Penn State University Geography Dept.
Jeff Kitsko
http://www.pahighways.com/exits/PennaTPKexits.html and
http://www.ohhighways.com/exits/OhioTPKexits.html show what each service
plaza have to offer. The PTC is selling calling cards at the service plazas
that list every brand of food carried at the plazas and have a map of the
Turnpike.
--
Jeff Kitsko
Pennsylvania Highways: http://www.pahighways.com/
Ohio Highways: http://www.ohhighways.com/
Ron Newman
"Captain Sarcastic" <capt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am curious about what food venues are offered on different tollways across
> the US.
McDonald's on the Mass Pike (I-90) and also at two plazas on
non-toll I-95/MA 128 (northbound in Lexington, southbound in Newton).
Pat O'Connell
McDonald's is also the meal du jour on the Will Rogers and Turner
turnpikes in Oklahoma. Most notable is the over the highway "World's
Largest McDonald's" (liek an Illinois Tollway oasis) on the Will
Rogers near Vinita OK. The restaurant is held up by a pair of concrete
arches, which of course have been painted yellow by the management.
--
Pat O'Connell
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
SP Cook
> "Captain Sarcastic" <capt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
\> > I am curious about what food venues are offered on different
tollways
> across
> > the US.
>
> The West Virginia Turnpike used to have Big Boy and I believe Burger King.
> Today, I think all but one carries the Big Boy franchise with the Beckley
> Plaza not since it was recently re-renovated. All plazas that I am aware of
> in 2001 has TCBY, Bizarro Pizza and Burger King.
>
>
The Turnpike has 3 service areas. The northernmost is called "Morton"
and has a Burger King and a Starbucks, it is accessable north-west
bound only. A companion rest area on the other side has an unbranded
hot dog stand. The central one is Beckley, the only one accessable
from both directions, it has a Burger King, Sabaros Pizza, Taco Bell,
and TCBY. The Scamarak above has a cafe run by the Greenbrier, which
is excelent. The southernmost, "Bluestone" also available from
northbound only, used to have a Burger King and a Starbucks, but
currenly has only a Starbucks, because the private services at the
Princeton exit, just 7 miles prior, have driven it out of business.
All gasoline is Exxon.
AFAIK, the only other Starbucks in the state is in the Marshall
student union. Which is another reason to like WV.
The orignal offerings were all called "The Glass House", which was a
private label for the vendor. When that contract expired, it became
Howard Johnson's. These were torn down in the 4-laneing and the new
ones have had Roy Rogers (otherwise unknown in the state), Hot Dog
City (just a made up name for a hot dog stand) and Tudor's Biscuit
World (locally owned brand, not bad actually) in addition to the ones
currently. I don't recall Big Boy ever being in there. Gas used to
be Esso then Exxon, when that contract ran out it was Gulf, then
Chevron, before returning the Exxon.
SP Cook
Sherman L. Cahal
> and has a Burger King and a Starbucks, it is accessable north-west
> bound only. A companion rest area on the other side has an unbranded
> hot dog stand. The central one is Beckley, the only one accessable
> from both directions, it has a Burger King, Sabaros Pizza, Taco Bell,
> and TCBY. The Scamarak above has a cafe run by the Greenbrier, which
> is excelent. The southernmost, "Bluestone" also available from
> northbound only, used to have a Burger King and a Starbucks, but
> currenly has only a Starbucks, because the private services at the
> Princeton exit, just 7 miles prior, have driven it out of business.
> All gasoline is Exxon.
Damn, what a shame about the Bluestone service area. No restruants at all?
> AFAIK, the only other Starbucks in the state is in the Marshall
> student union. Which is another reason to like WV.
>
> The orignal offerings were all called "The Glass House", which was a
> private label for the vendor. When that contract expired, it became
> Howard Johnson's. These were torn down in the 4-laneing and the new
> ones have had Roy Rogers (otherwise unknown in the state), Hot Dog
> City (just a made up name for a hot dog stand) and Tudor's Biscuit
> World (locally owned brand, not bad actually) in addition to the ones
> currently. I don't recall Big Boy ever being in there. Gas used to
> be Esso then Exxon, when that contract ran out it was Gulf, then
> Chevron, before returning the Exxon.
You are correct, it was a Roy Rogers. I get both interchangably confused
often. Does any still have Roy Rogers at all? They had good sit-down food.
David J. Lynch
all-in-one McDonalds with the gas station C-store.
Captain Sarcastic
news:3EBE76AF...@lvcm.com...
> McDonald's is also the meal du jour on the Will Rogers and Turner
> turnpikes in Oklahoma. Most notable is the over the highway "World's
> Largest McDonald's" (liek an Illinois Tollway oasis) on the Will
> Rogers near Vinita OK. The restaurant is held up by a pair of concrete
> arches, which of course have been painted yellow by the management.
I've seen the McDonald's restaurants over the Illinois Tollway. Very
interesting set-up.
SP Cook
>
minutes from the exit at the start of the turnpike. An exit that has
20+ restaurant brands. So a lot of people stop there, for more choice
and to avoid Turnpike pricing (you and I know that all the exits on
the Turnpike, save one, are toll-free, but your common tourist often
doesn't, so the natural deal is to fill-up just before it begins). If
they don't stop there, they will try to make it to Beckley, which is
only a half-hour away, which again has a 20+ brand exit (toll-free)
and Scamarack.
IMHO, it was bad planning by the WVEDPTA to rebuild this area. They
didn't really want to. They wanted to leave the original building and
make it into the tourist info center for WV, and forget about fuel and
food. But the Mercer County interests blocked that, because it would
mean that Mercer would effectivly be skipped by the tourist info
system. They actually wanted WV to operate the parallel rest area
northbound to Virginia's tourist info center southbound, which is
about 10 miles inside VA. They ended up building the center we have
today, which is a stub off of exit 9, which the Turnpike pays for.
The Bluestone center would have done better if it was accessable from
both sides.
SP Cook
Ron Newman
"Sherman L. Cahal" <she...@ezwv.com> wrote:
> You are correct, it was a Roy Rogers. I get both interchangably confused
> often. Does any still have Roy Rogers at all? They had good sit-down food.
The Mass Pike (I-90) used to have some Roy Rogers, as did the I-95/MA-128
service areas in Lexington and Newton. All gone now, replaced with
McDonalds and other fast-food outlets.
Tatrout
On the New York Thruway they are at- Clifton Springs, Junius Ponds,
Indian Castle, Pattersonville, New Baltimore, Plattekill, and Ulster
Travel Plazas
On the Delaware Turnpike(I-95) they are in the Delaware House Travel
Plaza
On the Maryland Turnpike/JFK Highway (I-95) they are in the Maryland
House Travel Plaza
On the Pennsylvania Turnpike they are in the Zelienople Travel Plaza,
South Somerset Travel Plaza, Plainfield Travel Plaza, Blue Mountain
Travel Plaza, Peter J. Camiel Travel Plaza, and Allentown Travel Plaza
On the Garden State Parkway they are at the Ocean View Travel Plaza
On the New Jersey Turnpike they currently are located in the Molly
Pitcher Travel Plaza, Richard Stockton Travel Plaza, James Fenimore
Cooper Travel Plaza, and Thomas Edison Travel Plaza. With the
exception of the Molly Pitcher location all of these will eventually
be converted to other concepts by HMS Host. Roy Rogers will remain at
Molly Pitcher, and the other four travel plazas that are currently
being renovated (Alex. Hamilton, Walt Whitman, Grover Cleveland,
Woodrow Wilson).
Doug Krause
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>The Mass Pike (I-90) used to have some Roy Rogers, as did the I-95/MA-128
>service areas in Lexington and Newton. All gone now, replaced with
>McDonalds and other fast-food outlets.
Here's the current list of Mass Pike stops:
http://www.massturnpike.com/commuter/service.html
Back in 1994 there used to be at least one westbound Burger King
on the Boston end of the pike.
Ron Newman
dkr...@ratcage.com (Doug Krause) wrote:
> Here's the current list of Mass Pike stops:
>
> http://www.massturnpike.com/commuter/service.html
>
> Back in 1994 there used to be at least one westbound Burger King
> on the Boston end of the pike.
There also used to be at least one Popeye's Chicken. Some of us
still miss this, since Popeye's had previously closed all of
their Boston-area stores.
Pete from Boston
> Kansas is in the process of converting all their Hardee's locations to
> all-in-one McDonalds with the gas station C-store.
McDonald's seems to be very aggressively expanding into the highway
foodservice market, picking up contracts to run entire rest areas as
opposed to just the restaurants. Marriott (with it's Roy's and Big Boy
chains) used to be dominant in the northeast, but they've begun to
recede like HoJo's before them, as evidenced by the way in which
McDonald's convincingly outbid them for the Mass Pike.
John David Galt
> There also used to be at least one Popeye's Chicken. Some of us
> still miss this, since Popeye's had previously closed all of
> their Boston-area stores.
That's weird; Popeye's is _expanding_ in northern California. A few years
ago they absorbed most of the remaining Pioneer Chicken stores (a _much_
better chain, IMO, with a better menu and better-made food, but it's gone
now).
Exile on Market Street
Sometimes companies do pull out of one region to concentrate their
resources on another. And at other times, regional tastes may work
against a particular recipe.
I happen to like spicy fare and love Popeye's chicken for that reason.
_Pace_ Bostonians' sophistication, New England is not known for the
abundance of cayenne pepper in its cooking. It may be that Popeye's
didn't do too well in that region. (Thinking back a couple of decades
-- has it really been that long? -- I don't recall there being many
Cajun/Creole or Caribbean restaurants in Boston and environs, though
there were a fair number of Szechuan Chinese places. Of course, this
may have all changed by now.)
Popeye's has expanded a bit in the Philadelphia area recently, having
set up shop in a number of former White Castles (a shame, but at least
the replacement isn't worse).
As for concentrating resources, I will offer an example from the world
of beer.
D.G. Yuengling and Son, America's oldest brewery, nearly went under in
the 1970s (so I've heard), but survived to see its brews soar in
popularity, in particular Yuengling Lager and Yuengling Porter, two
reasonably-priced beers with more character than other similarly priced
American brews. Sales have been so strong in the company's core market
of eastern Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware/southern New York that a few
years ago, Yuengling stopped distributing in western Pennsylvania (they
have no desire to build a brewery anywhere other than Pottsville; I hear
they have expanded the Pottsville facility, though).
--Sandy, who really doesn't miss drinking *except* for Yuengling Lager
--
Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Managing Editor, _Penn Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team Member webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
"Maybe Bill [Clinton] is the comforting pocket change of racial
understanding, a sort of black Clarence Thomas."
--from "The Bill Show" by P.J. O'Rourke (Atlantic Monthly, March 2003)--
Exile on Market Street
Wonder if this may be why they've added stuff like salads to their menu?
John David Galt
> I happen to like spicy fare and love Popeye's chicken for that reason.
> _Pace_ Bostonians' sophistication, New England is not known for the
> abundance of cayenne pepper in its cooking. It may be that Popeye's
> didn't do too well in that region. (Thinking back a couple of decades
> -- has it really been that long? -- I don't recall there being many
> Cajun/Creole or Caribbean restaurants in Boston and environs, though
> there were a fair number of Szechuan Chinese places. Of course, this
> may have all changed by now.)
This would explain why nearly all of Boston Market's food is so bland,
I can't eat there.
SloRide9430
>Sales have been so strong in the company's core market
>of eastern Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware/southern New York that a few
>years ago, Yuengling stopped distributing in western Pennsylvania (they
>have no desire to build a brewery anywhere other than Pottsville; I hear
>they have expanded the Pottsville facility, though).
They have a brewery in Tampa, FL, right next to the site of the (now razed)
Anheuser Busch brewery. I have hauled empty bottles to it several times from
the Anchor Glass plant in Connelsville, PA.
Safe truckin' !
Slo
Ron Newman
Boston Market (now owned by McDonald's) has actually been shrinking in
the Boston area.
Jeff Kitsko
news:3EC1ACC1...@pobox.upenn.edu...
> John David Galt wrote:
> > Ron Newman wrote:
> >
> >>There also used to be at least one Popeye's Chicken. Some of us
> >>still miss this, since Popeye's had previously closed all of
> >>their Boston-area stores.
> >
> > That's weird; Popeye's is _expanding_ in northern California. A few
years
> > ago they absorbed most of the remaining Pioneer Chicken stores (a _much_
> > better chain, IMO, with a better menu and better-made food, but it's
gone
> > now).
>
> Sometimes companies do pull out of one region to concentrate their
> resources on another. And at other times, regional tastes may work
> against a particular recipe.
>
> I happen to like spicy fare and love Popeye's chicken for that reason.
> _Pace_ Bostonians' sophistication, New England is not known for the
> abundance of cayenne pepper in its cooking. It may be that Popeye's
> didn't do too well in that region. (Thinking back a couple of decades
> -- has it really been that long? -- I don't recall there being many
> Cajun/Creole or Caribbean restaurants in Boston and environs, though
> there were a fair number of Szechuan Chinese places. Of course, this
> may have all changed by now.)
I thought that Popeye's chicken had a good flavor, much better than KFC's
stuff.
> Popeye's has expanded a bit in the Philadelphia area recently, having
> set up shop in a number of former White Castles (a shame, but at least
> the replacement isn't worse).
A Popeye's opened up on US 30 near me about a year ago and closed recently.
The billboard says "relocating business."
Jeff Kitsko
news:3EC1ACC1...@pobox.upenn.edu...
>
> of beer.
>
> D.G. Yuengling and Son, America's oldest brewery, nearly went under in
> the 1970s (so I've heard), but survived to see its brews soar in
> popularity, in particular Yuengling Lager and Yuengling Porter, two
> reasonably-priced beers with more character than other similarly priced
> American brews. Sales have been so strong in the company's core market
> of eastern Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware/southern New York that a few
> years ago, Yuengling stopped distributing in western Pennsylvania (they
> have no desire to build a brewery anywhere other than Pottsville; I hear
> they have expanded the Pottsville facility, though).
Yuengling has stopped distributing here? Then they keep teasing us with
those Yuengling commercials with shots of Philadelphia including the
I-76/I-676 interchange.
I've seen Yuengling in the beer distributor, so is this a new change that
they just implemented?
RJ
If I remember correctly, it was a while ago -- until they got more
brewing capacity online.
---
Bob
RLDean
>From: Exile on Market Street smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
>D.G. Yuengling and Son, America's oldest brewery, nearly went under in
>the 1970s (so I've heard), but survived to see its brews soar in
>popularity, in particular Yuengling Lager and Yuengling Porter, two
>reasonably-priced beers with more character than other similarly priced
>American brews. Sales have been so strong in the company's core market
>of eastern Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware/southern New York that a few
>years ago, Yuengling stopped distributing in western Pennsylvania (they
>have no desire to build a brewery anywhere other than Pottsville; I hear
>they have expanded the Pottsville facility, though).
>
Yuengling expanded into our part of northern New Jersey in the past several
years. My cousins in the Poconos had it for years when we did not. From a
railfan publication, I understand that Yuengling opened a second brewery in
Mill Creek PA with production recently doubling due to the establishment of
service by the Reading & Northern Railroad. Checking Yuengling.com I found
that they now are in the North Carolina market.
Rich Dean
Pete from Boston
> John David Galt wrote:
> > Ron Newman wrote:
> >
> >>There also used to be at least one Popeye's Chicken. Some of us
> >>still miss this, since Popeye's had previously closed all of
> >>their Boston-area stores.
> >
> > That's weird; Popeye's is _expanding_ in northern California. A few years
> > ago they absorbed most of the remaining Pioneer Chicken stores (a _much_
> > better chain, IMO, with a better menu and better-made food, but it's gone
> > now).
>
> Sometimes companies do pull out of one region to concentrate their
> resources on another. And at other times, regional tastes may work
> against a particular recipe.
>
> I happen to like spicy fare and love Popeye's chicken for that reason.
> _Pace_ Bostonians' sophistication, New England is not known for the
> abundance of cayenne pepper in its cooking. It may be that Popeye's
> didn't do too well in that region. (Thinking back a couple of decades
> -- has it really been that long? -- I don't recall there being many
> Cajun/Creole or Caribbean restaurants in Boston and environs, though
> there were a fair number of Szechuan Chinese places. Of course, this
> may have all changed by now.)
Sadly, tastes don't explain the complete pull-out of Long John
Silver's here.
> Popeye's has expanded a bit in the Philadelphia area recently, having
> set up shop in a number of former White Castles (a shame, but at least
> the replacement isn't worse).
>
> As for concentrating resources, I will offer an example from the world
> of beer.
>
> D.G. Yuengling and Son, America's oldest brewery, nearly went under in
> the 1970s (so I've heard), but survived to see its brews soar in
> popularity, in particular Yuengling Lager and Yuengling Porter, two
> reasonably-priced beers with more character than other similarly priced
> American brews. Sales have been so strong in the company's core market
> of eastern Pennsylvania/New Jersey/Delaware/southern New York that a few
> years ago, Yuengling stopped distributing in western Pennsylvania (they
> have no desire to build a brewery anywhere other than Pottsville; I hear
> they have expanded the Pottsville facility, though).
>
> --Sandy, who really doesn't miss drinking *except* for Yuengling Lager
I'm tired of nagging Yuengling to sell their beer here. I have a
cricle of friends, all with some tie to it, all of whom take orders
for the stuff when going into its territory. I explained to the
Yuengling people that the wear on my rear suspension from trunks full
of it was getting a bit much, and that there's a growing market for it
up here. They said, in essence, "that's nice."
While they may be loath to building a brewery elsewhere, they aren't
opposed to simply owning one, as evidenced by their purchase of a
(Stroh?) brewery in Florida a couple of years ago.
Kevin Robokoff
hmmm at first I thought you meant those 4 lane roads with at grade traffic.
What do you call your 4 lane roads 65-70 mph that have cross traffic at grade?
In Wisconsin, we call those expressways.
In Wisconsin, we call freeways roads with access at interchange ramps ONLY.
Welcome to cheeseland.
Kevin
Steve
--
Steve Alpert
GO YANKEES!
Civil Engineering (Course 1) at MIT
Geoffrey William Hatchard
> Geoff Hatchard wrote...
Hello Kevin,
Am I correct to assume that you're referring to the word "Expressway" in the
title of this post? If so, I apologize for not changing it, I thought it
was evident by our discussion of turnpikes that I'm talking about "Freeways"
here. "Captain Sarcastic" began this thread and I stuck with his title.
Personally, I call those four-laned roads with at-grade intersections
"roads". I'll make sure to straighten things out in the future.
Mark H. Bickford
>
> > Ron Newman wrote:
> >
> >>There also used to be at least one Popeye's Chicken. Some of us
> >>still miss this, since Popeye's had previously closed all of
> >>their Boston-area stores.
> >
> > That's weird; Popeye's is _expanding_ in northern California. A few years
> > ago they absorbed most of the remaining Pioneer Chicken stores (a _much_
> > better chain, IMO, with a better menu and better-made food, but it's gone
> > now).
>
> Sometimes companies do pull out of one region to concentrate their
> resources on another. And at other times, regional tastes may work
> against a particular recipe.
>
> I happen to like spicy fare and love Popeye's chicken for that reason.
> _Pace_ Bostonians' sophistication, New England is not known for the
> abundance of cayenne pepper in its cooking. It may be that Popeye's
> didn't do too well in that region.
Maine still has one Popeye's, on the Maine Turnpike northbound at the
Kennebunk exit / rest area. The only other one I ever saw in the state
was in Newport (US-2 at I-95 and ME-7); the owner had the franchise for
the entire state (except for the Turnpike, which aggravated him no end),
but since he built his restaurant in Newport he never built up enough
capital to expand. The store is a Burger King now, I believe.
- Mark
--
Those who would trade essential liberty for a little temporary security
may deserve neither, but they tend to be the majority of voters.
NCC31911
service plazas....
Hot Dog City (1--Okahumpka)
Burger King (6--all except Okahumpka & Pompano Beach)
Sbarro's (3--Turkey Lk, Ft. Pierce, Pompano)
Popeye's (3--Okahumpka, Canoe Creek, Pomano)
Dunkin' Donuts (1--Okahumpka)
TCBY (all 8)
Starbuck's (3--Turkey Lk, W Palm Beach, Pompano)
Cinnabon (2--Canoe Ck & Ft. Pierce)
Nathan's (2--Ft. Drum & W Palm)
Miami Subs (2--Ft. Drum & W Palm)
>I am curious about what food venues are offered on different tollways across
>the US. I know that in Pennsylvania, Burger King and McDonald's are
>prevalent on the PA Turnpike. (Years ago, it was all Howard Johnson's.) On
>the Delaware Turnpike (I-95), there is a Bob's Big Boy and a Sbarro.
>Sbarros are also (at least they used to be) on the PA Turnpike as well.
>Burger King is present on the NY State Thruway. Maryland also has Bob's Big
>Boy on the JFK Memorial Highway (I-95). The Atlantic City Expressway has a
>Farmer's Market on one of their food rest areas.
Exile on Market Street
>
> [Yuengling has] a brewery in Tampa, FL, right next to the site of the (now razed)
> Anheuser Busch brewery. I have hauled empty bottles to it several times from
> the Anchor Glass plant in Connelsville, PA.
You're right, and I recall seeing it on the Yuengling web site. I'd
completely forgotten about it.
Which leads me to ask: How did they manage to set up shop so far away
from their core market? Following Pennsylvania snowbirds south?
Exile on Market Street
> I'm tired of nagging Yuengling to sell their beer here. I have a
> cricle of friends, all with some tie to it, all of whom take orders
> for the stuff when going into its territory. I explained to the
> Yuengling people that the wear on my rear suspension from trunks full
> of it was getting a bit much, and that there's a growing market for it
> up here. They said, in essence, "that's nice."
>
> While they may be loath to building a brewery elsewhere, they aren't
> opposed to simply owning one, as evidenced by their purchase of a
> (Stroh?) brewery in Florida a couple of years ago.
I see from the web site that they have also indeed built a new brewery,
in Pennsylvania. This facility has allowed them to resume distribution
in New York State and western Pennsylvania.
As for Alabama and North Carolina (why not Georgia?): That must be a
pretty large brewery they bought in Florida. (I'm assuming that
Virginia is supplied from the Pennsylvania breweries. Maybe NC too,
given that there are no distributors in Georgia or South Carolina.)