I-40 (Memphis) Ghost Bridges coming down
Michael D. Adams
"They are seven bridges to nowhere, built 35 years ago and never used.
"And now they're coming down as the state makes room for a $52 million
improvement to the giant junction of Midtown Interstate 40 and 240..."
--
Michael D. Adams
Windsor, Connecticut
http://www.triskele.com
mda-u...@triskele.com
Rodney Schmisseur
The Memphis freeway system has to be one of the most poorly designed in the
country -- two major highways (I-40 and I-55) reduced to chokepoint at
different points within the city with no alternative freeway bypass
available. Trying to miss one takes you directly into the other.. The
NIMBY revolt over the "interior" I-40 section just delivered the final
crushing blow.
Then add the missing US-78/I-22 connector to I-240.
The I-40 downtown entrance into the city from the west is quite a vista, but
two miles later you're stuck on a one-lane ramp trying to follow the main
highway. That's bad enough in Rock Island/Moline, IL with I-74/I-80/I-280
or getting onto a toll-road -- say I-80 entering the Indiana Toll Road at
the I-90/I-94 ramps in Burns, IN.
Moving west from Little Rock, I-40 seems to shed 75% of it's traffic by the
I-55 split in West Memphis. If they had continued the northern section of
"old" I-240 across the Mississippi to link with I-40/I-55 in the West
Memphis area it would have made more sense. Was that ever planned?
- Rod
"Michael D. Adams" <mda-u...@triskele.com> wrote in message
news:4blafb...@notebook.triskele.us...
Eric Opperman
>
> And what a mess THAT interchange is...
>
> The Memphis freeway system has to be one of the most poorly designed in the
> country -- two major highways (I-40 and I-55) reduced to chokepoint at
> different points within the city with no alternative freeway bypass
> available. Trying to miss one takes you directly into the other.. The
> NIMBY revolt over the "interior" I-40 section just delivered the final
> crushing blow.
I wish they had just put the I-40 bridge a little further north. That
way it would have avoided the Overton Park mess and possibly provide a
wider downtown area.
And they really should have designed I-55 as the thru-route for the
55/Crump/Riverside interchange.
> Then add the missing US-78/I-22 connector to I-240.
>
> The I-40 downtown entrance into the city from the west is quite a vista, but
> two miles later you're stuck on a one-lane ramp trying to follow the main
> highway.
As Chris posted earlier, it's under construction, and it appears that
ramp will be replaced by a two or three-lane ramp.
> Moving west from Little Rock, I-40 seems to shed 75% of it's traffic by the
> I-55 split in West Memphis. If they had continued the northern section of
> "old" I-240 across the Mississippi to link with I-40/I-55 in the West
> Memphis area it would have made more sense. Was that ever planned?
As someone who travels between Memphis and Little Rock quite a bit, I
disagree that it sheds 75% of its traffic...more like 50%. I think
there's enough truck and other traffic to justify six-laning at least
parts of I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock.
Extending 240 wouldn't have been an option, as it was to be a beltway,
but a route off of it (it'd have to be an x55 because all the x40's in
TN are taken) would make some sense. We do need at least one more
bridge that will allow
Personally, I'd like to see the under-construction TN 385/MS 304 loop
extended across the river to form a full outer loop of Memphis so thru
traffic could completely bypass Memphis and West Memphis, crossing 55
near Jericho and 40 near Shearerville. It'd cross the river near Hughes
and Jericho. I'd put I-22 on US 78 to the 385/304 loop (I-669), duplex
it north for a few miles, and put I-22 on the current Nonconnah Parkway
and south part of 240, ending at Malfunction Junction a.k.a. the future
I-55/69/240 interchange. And make US 78 inside the 669 loop I-122 or
something to the state line, decomissioning it and replacing US 278 with
78.
In related news, I hope the Grizzlies trade Bryant Reeves's contract for
Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan.
--
Thanks for your time,
Eric Opperman
"Daddy, tell the guys to keep their eyes on the ball. They're missing
the ball too much." -- Former Giants bat boy Darren Baker, son of Cubs
manager Dusty Baker
US 71
"Eric Opperman" <eri...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
> And they really should have designed I-55 as the thru-route for the
> 55/Crump/Riverside interchange.
Gads! I've been through there numerous times... I never understood why they
did it that way.
As far as rebuilding the I-40/240 Interchange on the west side of town, I
applaud it! It's a bloody pain trying to squeeze 3 lanes of traffic over
those ramps. I won't even mention all those little sub-compact cars and
motorcycles that come flying at you from the left lanes as the road
narrows.....
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Douglas A. Willinger
>
> "They are seven bridges to nowhere, built 35 years ago and never used.
>
> "And now they're coming down as the state makes room for a $52 million
> improvement to the giant junction of Midtown Interstate 40 and 240..."
From that article:
---
Removing the seven useless bridges ends a chapter of Memphis history,
Stan Klenk told citizens attending a hearing on the project this
month. He is a principal with project consultant Allen and Hoshall.
"This project should once and for all end any speculation that I-40
would ever be sent into the City of Memphis," Klenk said.
---
Apparantly this new project is designed to attempt to preclude an
extension from I-40 from the west? Does the design fail to leave room
for access to the existing unused right of way? Has there been any
EIS on the current no-build status of this extension?
Any talk of a design for a project that would be flexible to allow an
extension from I-40 that would include a drilled tunnel segment with
filtration for the Overton Park area?
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
Michael D. Adams
:
: Any talk of a design for a project that would be flexible to allow an
: extension from I-40 that would include a drilled tunnel segment with
: filtration for the Overton Park area?
Ideas for an Overton Park tunnel died a good 15-20 years ago. The old
right-of-way has been filled in with a boulevard to the east of
Overton Park, and many very nice houses to the west of the park.
An extension of the western I-40 into Crosstown would take a new
roadway through a low/lower-middle-class neighborhood, and would
deposit traffic into a commercial district that has seen better days
and already has a traffic problem. Permitting the extension would
also probably require the reconstruction of the interchange to be much
more complex, and would require taking additional properties, than is
required with the current plans.
There's no doubt in my mind traffic would flow a little better in
Memphis if I-40 had been built as planned, but it would have come at
tremendous cost. The battle over whether the benefits would or would
not outweigh the cost has been fought and the casualties are long
since buried. Put a fork in it; it's done.
Anthony Boor
I think I have a little bit of moral authority to promulgate my kooky
ideas for Memphis freeways over this medium.
First off, why is the Memphis outer beltway going to be designated
I-669? Personally I would rather see it as I-469, because Memphis
already had I-240, so the numerical progression would demand that the
next beltway be an I-4xx.
And about said beltway, I agree it should be a full loop. But I have
it meeting I-40 between MP 260 and MP 265, and meeting I-55 near where
US 63/Future I-55 meets I-55. The reason I have it going that far
north is that, if it were to meet I-55 around Jehrico, it would have
to cross the river back into TN and run right into a state park, which
will drive the nimbies nuts. So if you take it north, it can cross
the river, miss the state park, and curve back down and flow back into
what is now TN PSR 385.
Obviously, this would necessitate TWO new river crossings, and would
mean that, for two different stretches, I-69 and I-669 would
multiplex.
Because I-55 would cross I-669 close to where I-55 would meet I-555, I
would set it up as a cloverleaf with four C/Ds fused with a trumpet,
instead of a complicated, overpass-heavy and expensive five-way TI.
Besides that, I would have two other new river bridges, one over the
river at Loosahatchie Bar, and one over Presidents Island and the
river. The former would be for I-40 (meaning I-40 and I-69 would
multiplex over what is now TN PSR 300, taking the liberty of choosing
the "through town" route for I-69), and the latter would be for an
I-240 extension; as I-69 would overtake the N/S section of I-240,
I-240 can continue west on what is now I-55 transition, continue due
west, cross Presidents Island and the river, then dogleg back north to
meet I-40 just west of the (new) single point I-40/I-55 TI. The
current part of I-55 transition that runs N/S would only carry the US
61 designation, and end at I-240 in a trumpet or a semi-dir. T.
I-40 would meet I-55 in West Memphis at a single point only, and be a
cloverstack, with the loops being for the weak-side movements. This
cloverstack would fuse via C/D roads with the I-240/I-40 TI, a
semi-dir. T.
I would then reroute I-55 onto the Hernando DeSoto Bridge, and leave
the current Memphis-Arkansas Bridge for the US routes. I know that
what is now the 40/240 TI in midtown will be redone with I-40 being
the "through" route; if that is done, this proposal for I-55 will seem
abstruse. This TI should be reconstructed, though.
The (current) I-55/I-240 TI, (I-55/69 at I-240 TI in my version)
should be reconstructed as a conventional stack.
Also, the Memphis area should drop the silly idea of HOV lanes. TDOT
doesn't do HOV lanes correctly anyway; they just designate the left
thru lane as HOV for a short stretch, and there will be no HOV-to-HOV
ramps anywhere. Compare and contrast to ADOT, which does them right:
HOV lanes are a new left lane which begin and end where needed; there
are HOV-to-HOV ramps at freeway-to-freeway TIs, and a few
HOV-to-surface road exits; the HOV lanes are not barrier-separated
from the g.p. lanes.
One more thing: At least one of these freeways should be designated
as the "Real BBQ Freeway."
--Anthony Boor
Eric Opperman
>
> First off, why is the Memphis outer beltway going to be designated
> I-669? Personally I would rather see it as I-469, because Memphis
> already had I-240, so the numerical progression would demand that the
> next beltway be an I-4xx.
Dunno, but 669 is the number I've seen for the eastern 2/3.
> And about said beltway, I agree it should be a full loop. But I have
> it meeting I-40 between MP 260 and MP 265, and meeting I-55 near where
> US 63/Future I-55 meets I-55. The reason I have it going that far
> north is that, if it were to meet I-55 around Jehrico, it would have
> to cross the river back into TN and run right into a state park, which
> will drive the nimbies nuts. So if you take it north, it can cross
> the river, miss the state park, and curve back down and flow back into
> what is now TN PSR 385.
Crossing near Jericho would send it just south of the state park,
though. If you put it much further north, its viability as the through
route for I-40 traffic is seriously threatened. And Shearerville is at
MP 265.
Chuckdogg1979
freeway or highway planning?
"Rodney Schmisseur" <rws...@gte.net> wrote in message news:<eKqSa.45680$kI5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
Cody Goodman
because, after all, I-555 is designed to better connect Jonesboro with the
Memphis area. So why not connect it right into the beltway system?
I would like to make a map of these proposals because all of the changes are
too complex to talk about with just plain text.
I agree with your suggestions for the most part. However, thinking in the
future (probably very distant) when I-22 comes to town and when the
Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta freeway is built, I would propose the following:
- Route I-22 along the southern portion of the beltway (MS 304) all the way
to the western end of it, where a southern bridge shall be contructed. From
here there would be a split: a western split which leads to I-40 near
Forrest City, AR and a northern split which would lead to the I-40/55
junction in West Memphis. I-22 would take the southern route to Forrest
City.
- The MEM-HSV-ATL highway would become a eastern extention of I-30. It
would multiplex with I-40 from Little Rock to Forrest City, then with I-22
across the Mississippi across Desoto County, MS, to where the proposed
highway would connect with the Memphis Beltway, around US 72 near the MS/TN
line. I-30 would continue from there. Nonconnah Parkway would become
I-230.
- As mentioned before, the US 78 freeway from the Memphis Beltway to the TN
line would become I-122, but if US 78 is decomissioned at some point east of
Memphis, then Lamar Avenue will revert to SR 4, not US 278 (because US 278
already exists elsewhere).
- Not related to Memphis, but with this proposal the US 67 freeway between
Little Rock and Poplar Bluff would become I-57.
"Anthony Boor" <cc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b47697fa.03072...@posting.google.com...
Harry Sachz
> One more thing: At least one of these freeways should be designated
> as the "Real BBQ Freeway."
As a tribute to Kansas City, of course.
Alan Hamilton
the interchanges to be rebuilt to reflect their actual usage. This
should have been done the day after the through-town route was
canceled.
--
/
/ * / Alan Hamilton
* * al...@arizonaroads.com
Arizona Roads -- http://www.arizonaroads.com
Anthony Boor
>
> Crossing near Jericho would send it just south of the state park,
> though. If you put it much further north, its viability as the through
> route for I-40 traffic is seriously threatened. And Shearerville is at
> MP 265.
Sorry, I see Shearerville on the official AHTD map, but not in the NG
atlas.
Nevertheless, I already have a separate new I-40 bridge over
Loosahatchie Bar; the bridge north of the state park is for the
beltway, I-669. The reason a Loosahatchie Bar bridge probably will
not happen is that, at that point, even after you are on the west bank
of the river, you are still in Tennessee -- one would have to traverse
a bit of delta to cross into Arkansas officially. Therefore, TDOT
would not be able to split the "state level" cost of such a bridge
with AHTD.
(Usually, with new river or water crossings for interstate highways
that cross state lines where the state line is in the water, the Feds
pay 80%, and one state pays 10%, and the other state pays 10%. Even
with the Hoover Dam Bridge, which won't even carry an interstate route
[for now], it's still 80% Feds, 10% ADOT, and 10% NDOT.)
--Anthony Boor
Michael D. Adams
I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
meeting will try to do better this time.
Anthony Boor
>
> I would like to make a map of these proposals because all of the changes are
> too complex to talk about with just plain text.
>
Sorry, I'm not good at these sort of drawings, either by hand or on
computer. If I were, I would already have my simulated map of my
proposed valley freeways up somewhere, as there is great public demand
for (ha ha).
--Anthony Boor
Anthony Boor
> So are there other examples in other US cities of poorly designed
> freeway or highway planning?
I can just hear Jeff Kitsko jumping up and down, yelling the constant
refrain that, "At least Memphis has something of a beltway," unlike
Pittsburgh.
--Anthony Boor
Eric Opperman
>
> I like these ideas, especially to tie I-555 right into the Memphis Beltway
> because, after all, I-555 is designed to better connect Jonesboro with the
> Memphis area. So why not connect it right into the beltway system?
>
> I would like to make a map of these proposals because all of the changes are
> too complex to talk about with just plain text.
I'll see if I can put something together, but I make no promises about
actually being able to put it together and make it look good. :)
Eric Opperman
>
> I would like to make a map of these proposals because all of the changes are
> too complex to talk about with just plain text.
I put together a very crude map of both my proposal and a combination of
yours and Anthony's.
I don't have any webspace to post them, though...I can e-mail them if
one of you guys has a site to post them on.
US 71
> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
>
> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
> meeting will try to do better this time.
I've been told Gates BBQ is supposed to be the best... but I haven't been in
KC for so long I haven't been able to check.
US 71
>. Put a fork in it; it's done.
> --
Interesting turn of a phrase... I'll have to remember that one ;)
Harry Sachz
> Harry Sachz <watuzi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Anthony Boor wrote:
>>
>>> One more thing: At least one of these freeways should be designated
>>> as the "Real BBQ Freeway."
>>
>> As a tribute to Kansas City, of course.
>
> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
Where did you go?
> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
> meeting will try to do better this time.
Try LC's or Gates.
Cody Goodman
I created a map of these proposals too, but I would like to see how others
look because mine looks kinda busy.
"Eric Opperman" <eri...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3F1B68E3...@midsouth.rr.com...
Cody Goodman
cancelled, and now that those proposals are dead too, TDOT is going to now
remove those ramps and upgrade the ones that are needed to be upgraded.
"Alan Hamilton" <al...@arizonaroads.com> wrote in message
news:bffdj8$ebkql$1...@ID-131683.news.uni-berlin.de...
Cody Goodman
http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion1.JPG
http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion2.JPG
http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisCity1.JPG
The first and third map are the proposal made by Eric, and the second is the
combination of the proposals made by Anthony and myself.
http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/memphis_map.gif
That is the map I made. The blue routes represents current interstate
routes, the red freeways which either currently don't carry an interstate
designation or won't with the proposal, and the green represents future
interstate routes and designation.
Kevin Robokoff
> "Eric Opperman" <eri...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> > And they really should have designed I-55 as the thru-route for the
> > 55/Crump/Riverside interchange.
>
> Gads! I've been through there numerous times... I never understood why they
> did it that way.
>
> As far as rebuilding the I-40/240 Interchange on the west side of town, I
> applaud it! It's a bloody pain trying to squeeze 3 lanes of traffic over
> those ramps. I won't even mention all those little sub-compact cars and
> motorcycles that come flying at you from the left lanes as the road
> narrows.....
>
>
Orleans and wondered why I-40 never went directly through.
I bet the ghost ramps, highway all show up nicely on terraserver.
Kevin
Chris Bessert
>
> I bet the ghost ramps, highway all show up nicely on terraserver.
[Acres and acres of unnecessary quotage snipped.]
Indeed:
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=10&x=3856&y=19468&z=15&w=2
Later,
Chris
--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com
Chris Lawrence
Schmisseur wrote:
> Moving west from Little Rock, I-40 seems to shed 75% of it's traffic
> by the I-55 split in West Memphis. If they had continued the
> northern section of "old" I-240 across the Mississippi to link with
> I-40/I-55 in the West Memphis area it would have made more sense.
> Was that ever planned?
http://www.lordsutch.com/roads/tn300/ has a brief history of all the
various plans for new (post-HdS) bridges. The latest, as I mentioned
earlier, is a half-assed study conducted by AHTD as part of its "US 79
Pine Bluff-Memphis freeway" study, which morphed into a third bridge
study. Memphis MPO was singularly unimpressed to say the least; for
one thing, it didn't study anything north of the existing I-55 bridge.
(The study favored a crossing connecting MS 304 at US 61 in southern
DeSoto County MS to I-40 west of West Memphis - a routing that makes
sense to me, but you'd need an extension up to I-55 to really be
effective.)
There's also money available ($750k or so) for a study on a toll route
from TN 385/I-69 in Millington to I-55 near Osceola, Ark. that would
run north-south and basically straighten out the kink in I-55 (look at
a map and you'll see what I mean). I pestered the CA's
transportation/environmental reporter about it a while back but he
probably couldn't find an angle to the story that would cast negative
aspersions on TDOT. If I ever get bored I may make some phone calls
of my own.
Chris
--
Chris Lawrence <ch...@lordsutch.com> - http://blog.lordsutch.com/
Chris Lawrence
> Douglas A. Willinger <dougwi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>:
>: Any talk of a design for a project that would be flexible to allow an
>: extension from I-40 that would include a drilled tunnel segment with
>: filtration for the Overton Park area?
>
> Ideas for an Overton Park tunnel died a good 15-20 years ago. The old
> right-of-way has been filled in with a boulevard to the east of
> Overton Park, and many very nice houses to the west of the park.
Plus, all the money for I-40 has been reallocated to be spent on the
Walnut Grove Road freeway upgrade from I-240 to Germantown Pkwy
through Shelby Farms (talk about irony).
Theoretically you could bury I-40 under North Parkway past Overton
Park; the ROW is absolutely huge through there. No idea what the
tunnelling conditions would be though...
And, there's nothing in the design that precludes building flyover
ramps (or tunnels) heading east, but it would be impractical for the
through lanes to go that way.
Michael D. Adams
: So are there other examples in other US cities of poorly designed
: freeway or highway planning?
*cough* Hartford *cough*
Lots of fun to roadgeek, but not so much fun to drive
through...although my impressions of Hartford traffic have improved
infinitely since I started working in Boston.
Michael D. Adams
:> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
:> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
:>
:> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
:> meeting will try to do better this time.
:
: I've been told Gates BBQ is supposed to be the best... but I haven't been in
: KC for so long I haven't been able to check.
About where might this place be? When I go to KC, I end up spending
almost all of my time in Lenexa and Overland Park (plus driving
to/from the airport).
Michael D. Adams
: I don't have any webspace to post them, though...I can e-mail them if
: one of you guys has a site to post them on.
Although I've handed Highway Heaven off to Froggie, I do still have a
few pages on Memphis Freeways on my site.
I'm going to be traveling much of this week, but if you don't mind
risking a couple of days' delay, I've got the space....
Michael D. Adams
: Michael D. Adams wrote:
:> Harry Sachz <watuzi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:>> Anthony Boor wrote:
:>>
:>>> One more thing: At least one of these freeways should be designated
:>>> as the "Real BBQ Freeway."
:>>
:>> As a tribute to Kansas City, of course.
:>
:> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
:> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
:
: Where did you go?
A Hartford person, recently relocated to KC,KS took me my first night
to KC Masterpiece, which was disappointing (but better than anything I
have found in/around Hartford).
The next day, we had a catered lunch. No clue who catered it, but the
'que was actually pretty good, but still not up to my
Memphis-influenced standards.
On a future trip, I may have to see if I can get some Corky's shipped in.
:> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
:> meeting will try to do better this time.
:
: Try LC's or Gates.
Thanks.
Harry Sachz
> US 71 <us...@earthlink.netspam> wrote:
>
>>> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
>>> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
>>>
>>> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
>>> meeting will try to do better this time.
>>
>> I've been told Gates BBQ is supposed to be the best... but I haven't
>> been in KC for so long I haven't been able to check.
>
> About where might this place be? When I go to KC, I end up spending
> almost all of my time in Lenexa and Overland Park (plus driving
> to/from the airport).
There are several Gates locations. Since you'll be in Johnson County, the
closest Gates is on State Line just north of I-435, it's on the left. The
other locations are listed here:
http://www.gatesbbq.com/locations.html
If you want to try LC's, the nearest one is on 95th Street just west of
I-35, on the right. The original location is on Blue Parkway about halfway
between I-435 and US 71.
Gates has the best sauce, but I believe LC's meat is a little better. You
can't go wrong with either.
Darn you, now I'm craving bbq but I'm 400 miles south of KC. Thanks a lot!
;)
Harry Sachz
>>>> As a tribute to Kansas City, of course.
>>>
>>> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
>>> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
>>
>> Where did you go?
>
> A Hartford person, recently relocated to KC,KS took me my first night
> to KC Masterpiece, which was disappointing (but better than anything I
> have found in/around Hartford).
Ah, no wonder. KC Masterpiece is the McDonalds of KC BBQ. It's certainly
not bad, but pales in comparison to real KC barbecue.
For something way different, try Arthur Bryant's. It's not bad, but it's
the weirdest sauce I've ever tasted. There's one on Brooklyn, and in the
Ameristar casino off M-210.
Douglas A. Willinger
> "Michael D. Adams" <mda-u...@triskele.com> wrote in message
> news:1omefb...@notebook.triskele.us...
>
> >. Put a fork in it; it's done.
> > --
>
> Interesting turn of a phrase... I'll have to remember that one ;)
But a far tastier phrase if in reference to a successful and completed
I-40 cross town tunnel!
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
Anthony Boor
> Here are the maps that both I and Eric created:
>
> http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion1.JPG
> http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion2.JPG
> http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisCity1.JPG
>
> The first and third map are the proposal made by Eric, and the second is the
> combination of the proposals made by Anthony and myself.
>
> http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/memphis_map.gif
>
Great work. MemphisRegion2.JPG looks the most like my proposals,
though I never thought of a wye between Forrest City, Arkansas and
I-669 in Arkansas just west of the river; it is a good idea.
I have heard that US 72 from Memphis to I-24 near Chattanooga won't be
a freeway, but just four-lane divided. Though it should be, and be
numbered I-28, and tie into the Memphis system.
One big hitch with my plans is that, over what is now TN PSR 300, I-40
and I-69 would multiplex, but only for about 1.5 mile. As it is, TDOT
moved I-65 over the former I-265 in Nashville because the former 40/65
multiplex was too short to handle all the cross-weaving traffic.
Therefore, if something like my kooky scheme ever happens, TDOT should
look into something of a C/D system that keeps the 40 and 69 main
lanes from touching each other, yet has all the ramps for either
direction of 40 to access either direction of 69. Also the TI with US
51 complicates the mix. Though TDOT has something like that in
Nashville already, with the 24/40/440 mix.
--Anthony Boor
Anthony Boor
>
> I made my first trip to KC three months ago. I (a former Memphian)
> was disappointed with the BBQ I was served.
>
> I'm headed back there in a few days. I'm told that the folks I'm
> meeting will try to do better this time.
That's because, in Kansas City, you get GOOD BBQ, but you don't get
REAL BBQ.
Real Barbecue is pulled from the shoulder of a pig, slow roasted for
hours and hours, and served with cole slaw and just the right amount
of pepper sauce in between slices of bread.
--Anthony Boor
Brad Bishop
"Anthony Boor" <cc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b47697fa.03072...@posting.google.com...
I think Texas has the 'Real BBQ'. It's brisquette (sp?) with the juices that
come off the brisquette used as sauce. It's not what I like, generally, for
BBQ, but I suppose it's 'real BBQ'. I like the southern variety where the
sauce (vinegar, ketchup, and/or mustard based) slathered on.
The first time that I had 'Texas BBQ' and the guy just dipped the ladel into
the 'drippings' I was pretty disappointed.
This seems to be standard for Texas BBQ, not that other (good) BBQ can't be
found. Rudy's (http://www.rudys.com/) is good (or, at least, more to my
liking). There is also a place outside of Austin called, The Saltlick, which
I remember as being very good. Outside of that, I was disappointed in Texas
BBQ (no matter how traditional it may be).
Enjoy!
Brad
Brad
Magyar
> Cody Goodman wrote:
> >
> > I like these ideas, especially to tie I-555 right into the Memphis
Beltway
> > because, after all, I-555 is designed to better connect Jonesboro with
the
> > Memphis area. So why not connect it right into the beltway system?
> >
> > I would like to make a map of these proposals because all of the changes
are
> > too complex to talk about with just plain text.
>
> I'll see if I can put something together, but I make no promises about
> actually being able to put it together and make it look good. :)
What happened to Micheal Adam's maps of Memphis?
Are they with Chris Lawrence's website?
> --
> Thanks for your time,
>
> Eric Opperman
> "Daddy, tell the guys to keep their eyes on the ball. They're missing
> the ball too much." -- Former Giants bat boy Darren Baker, son of Cubs
> manager Dusty Baker
Sandor G
Eric Opperman
>
> A Hartford person, recently relocated to KC,KS took me my first night
> to KC Masterpiece, which was disappointing (but better than anything I
> have found in/around Hartford).
>
> The next day, we had a catered lunch. No clue who catered it, but the
> 'que was actually pretty good, but still not up to my
> Memphis-influenced standards.
>
> On a future trip, I may have to see if I can get some Corky's shipped in.
Corky's? Get some stuff from the Alley (Rendezvous for those not
familiar with Memphis), man. :)
Michael D. Adams
:
:
: What happened to Micheal Adam's maps of Memphis?
: Are they with Chris Lawrence's website?
They're still on my site.
Rte66man
news:<C3WSa.112996$Io.96...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > Here are the maps that both I and Eric created:
> >
> > http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion1.JPG
> > http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisRegion2.JPG
> > http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/MemphisCity1.JPG
> >
> > The first and third map are the proposal made by Eric, and the second is
the
> > combination of the proposals made by Anthony and myself.
> >
> > http://www.nextl3vel.net/codyg1985/maps/memphis_map.gif
> >
>
> Great work. MemphisRegion2.JPG looks the most like my proposals,
> though I never thought of a wye between Forrest City, Arkansas and
> I-669 in Arkansas just west of the river; it is a good idea.
Good grief, FOUR new Mississippi River bridges?? Where would the $$ for that
come from?
Rte66man
Cody Goodman
of what has been suggested in these maps.
Some of these routes are proposed; others are simply pipe dreams. The
bridges (except for the I-40 one on my map) actually reflect some of the
proposals which have been made.
"Rte66man" <rte6...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i02Ta.83112$o86....@news1.central.cox.net...
Cody Goodman
> though I never thought of a wye between Forrest City, Arkansas and
> I-669 in Arkansas just west of the river; it is a good idea.
This would work well because I-55 North traffic bound for I-40 west of I-55
North could use this to bypass Memphis if desired.
> I have heard that US 72 from Memphis to I-24 near Chattanooga won't be
> a freeway, but just four-lane divided. Though it should be, and be
> numbered I-28, and tie into the Memphis system.
Actually Alabama is the only state which is really pursuing the
Memphis-Atlanta freeway. Georgia does not seem to be interested, nor does
Mississippi (US 72 through MS is currently mostly a four-lane type
expressway).
US 72 between Huntsville and I-24 is actually a portion of APD Corridor V.
I don't know if there are plans to make this a freeway, but I doubt this is
the case, as most of the route is a four lane now.
The reason I picked I-30 is because this would make I-30 more justifiable as
a I-x0 route.
> One big hitch with my plans is that, over what is now TN PSR 300, I-40
> and I-69 would multiplex, but only for about 1.5 mile. As it is, TDOT
> moved I-65 over the former I-265 in Nashville because the former 40/65
> multiplex was too short to handle all the cross-weaving traffic.
> Therefore, if something like my kooky scheme ever happens, TDOT should
> look into something of a C/D system that keeps the 40 and 69 main
> lanes from touching each other, yet has all the ramps for either
> direction of 40 to access either direction of 69. Also the TI with US
> 51 complicates the mix. Though TDOT has something like that in
> Nashville already, with the 24/40/440 mix.
I am sure that it is included in the plans for I-69 to redo the US 51/TN 300
interchange. I am not sure about the road itself, it will probably need to
either be widened considerably, or as you said, use C/D lanes to keep the
through routes apart, and putting the movements at one part of the road.
Eric Opperman
>
> That is quite a lot. It would cost a lot of money to build and improve all
> of what has been suggested in these maps.
>
> Some of these routes are proposed; others are simply pipe dreams. The
> bridges (except for the I-40 one on my map) actually reflect some of the
> proposals which have been made.
Actually, I've seen all four proposed to some extent, but all
separately.
Michael G. Koerner
>
> Kevin Robokoff wrote:
> >
> > I bet the ghost ramps, highway all show up nicely on terraserver.
>
> [Acres and acres of unnecessary quotage snipped.]
>
> Indeed:
> http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=10&x=3856&y=19468&z=15&w=2
Interesting abandoned railroad grade across the upper part of the image, too.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Anthony Boor
>
> Good grief, FOUR new Mississippi River bridges?? Where would the $$ for that
> come from?
The bridge ferry? :)
Really, like I said, my road ideas are mostly undoable. You should
see what I had planned for St. Louis and the valley.
--Anthony Boor
stéphane dumas
"Michael D. Adams" <mda-u...@triskele.com> a écrit dans le message news:
32ogfb...@notebook.triskele.us...
> Chuckdogg1979 <chuckd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> : So are there other examples in other US cities of poorly designed
> : freeway or highway planning?
>
> *cough* Hartford *cough*
>
> Lots of fun to roadgeek, but not so much fun to drive
> through...although my impressions of Hartford traffic have improved
> infinitely since I started working in Boston.
>
Montreal with the missing gaps of A-30, Ville-Marie autoroute, A-440, A-13,
A-19, A-35, A-50
Quebec City who need an additionnal bridge
Toronto who had cancelled some missing links like the Scarbourough
expressway, the Richview expwy, the Spadina expwy, the Crosstown expressway
Winnipeg who DON'T have a freeway network, the Perimeter highway (TCH-100,
MB-101) have traffic lights and railroad crossings! (althought they are some
interchanges here and there)
TCH-1 crossing Calgary via urban arterials but this problem will be
partially resolved when AB201/Calgary beltway will be built. there some
plans to remove the last traffic lights on Glenmore Trail between
AB-2/Deerfoot trail and Crowchild trail, so it will be completely
free-flowing mouvement, and the southern extension of Deerfoot trail from
its current terminus south to the current route of AB2
Ottawa who don't have a direct freeway link from TCH-417 to Gatineau with
A-5 and A-50
(same with Vancouver no freeway link between TCH-1 and Fraser delta valley
thruway/BC-99)
> --
> Michael D. Adams
> Windsor, Connecticut
> http://www.triskele.com
> mda-u...@triskele.com
Stéphane Dumas
Chuckdogg1979
"Michael D. Adams" <mda-u...@triskele.com> wrote in message news:<1omefb...@notebook.triskele.us>...
> Douglas A. Willinger <dougwi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> :
> : Any talk of a design for a project that would be flexible to allow an
> : extension from I-40 that would include a drilled tunnel segment with
> : filtration for the Overton Park area?
>
> Ideas for an Overton Park tunnel died a good 15-20 years ago. The old
> right-of-way has been filled in with a boulevard to the east of
> Overton Park, and many very nice houses to the west of the park.
>
> An extension of the western I-40 into Crosstown would take a new
> roadway through a low/lower-middle-class neighborhood, and would
> deposit traffic into a commercial district that has seen better days
> and already has a traffic problem. Permitting the extension would
> also probably require the reconstruction of the interchange to be much
> more complex, and would require taking additional properties, than is
> required with the current plans.
>
> There's no doubt in my mind traffic would flow a little better in
> Memphis if I-40 had been built as planned, but it would have come at
> tremendous cost. The battle over whether the benefits would or would
> not outweigh the cost has been fought and the casualties are long
> since buried. Put a fork in it; it's done.
m...@me.com
Michael D. Adams <mda-u...@triskele.com> wrote:
>Chuckdogg1979 <chuckd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>: So are there other examples in other US cities of poorly designed
>: freeway or highway planning?
>
>*cough* Hartford *cough*
>
>Lots of fun to roadgeek, but not so much fun to drive
>through...although my impressions of Hartford traffic have improved
>infinitely since I started working in Boston.
I haven't driven much on the streets of Hartford, but
I-91 and I-84 through downtown are both awful.
lyon_wonder
been fully completed through memphis.
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=11&x=578&y=9733&z=16&w=2
Eric Opperman
>
> This looks like what might have originally been part of I-40 had it
> been fully completed through memphis.
It is...now Sam Cooper Boulevard, it was built as I-40 but
decommissioned to a city-maintained freeway once the stretch through the
park was cancelled.
Harry Sachz
> lyon_wonder wrote:
>>
>> This looks like what might have originally been part of I-40 had it
>> been fully completed through memphis.
>
> It is...now Sam Cooper Boulevard, it was built as I-40 but
> decommissioned to a city-maintained freeway once the stretch through
> the park was cancelled.
Was it ever signed as I-40?
Michael G. Koerner
I believe that it was.
Oh yea, how was the west end of Sam Cooper extended? The newest aerial
images of it that I have seen don't show any street construction beyond
the 'ghost' end.
Eric Opperman
>
> Harry Sachz wrote:
> >
> > Eric Opperman wrote:
> > > lyon_wonder wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This looks like what might have originally been part of I-40 had it
> > >> been fully completed through memphis.
> > >
> > > It is...now Sam Cooper Boulevard, it was built as I-40 but
> > > decommissioned to a city-maintained freeway once the stretch through
> > > the park was cancelled.
> >
> > Was it ever signed as I-40?
>
> I believe that it was.
>
> Oh yea, how was the west end of Sam Cooper extended? The newest aerial
> images of it that I have seen don't show any street construction beyond
> the 'ghost' end.
It's a boulevard/parkway, using some of the I-40 ROW, but it has a few
stoplights. I haven't had a reason to go to that part of town since
they extended it, though, so I haven't driven it.
Michael D. Adams
: Eric Opperman wrote:
:>
:> It is...now Sam Cooper Boulevard, it was built as I-40 but
:> decommissioned to a city-maintained freeway once the stretch through
:> the park was cancelled.
:
: Was it ever signed as I-40?
Yes, up until it was realigned to the northern part of the I-240 loop.