Notes from Memphis-Ann Arbor roadtrip via Terre Haute (long)

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Chris Lawrence

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Jul 25, 2001, 2:34:31 AM7/25/01
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Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -
I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465 - I-69 - M-60 - I-94
(Some sidetrips excluded.)

US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg is four lanes and passes through several
towns. Most of the parts between towns are posted at 55 mph, though
further north there are some 65 mph sections. It's fairly hilly and the
vertical alignment is well below Interstate standards in a lot of areas;
TDOT is probably right to be planning a new route for I-69 through the
area (as opposed to overlaying US 51 and adding a few bypasses and
overpasses).

At Four Corners, I had planned to cut over on old TN 20 (now TN 210) to
US 412, but it was closed for some reason so I ended up following a
detour and probably going 5 miles out of the way. Eventually I got over
to US 412, which is posted for 65 mph and as a bike route. It has paved
shoulders. North of TN 210, the road is close to a freeway, with only
two at-grade crossings that could easily be bridged or closed; presumably
I-69 could follow this route south and then cut over towards the US 51
alignment. US 51 joins US 412 for about 1 mile to the I-155 interchange.
At I-155, the control city is St. Louis. US 51's control city is Union
City. (photo)

US 51 is built as a continuation of the I-155 freeway north to Troy. It
is signed at 70 mph and as a bike route (I believe this is the only
freeway in Tennessee that allows bicycles). Just north/east of the I-155
interchange, US 51 has a Future I-69 Corridor sign (photo). The freeway
ends just south of Troy; within a half mile, US 51 becomes a 5 lane road
with a 45 mph speed limit, although past Troy it goes back up to 55.
The route also passes through the south end of Union City, then follows a
four-lane bypass (with at grade intersections, including a *four way
stop*) to the north side of town, where the freeway resumes at the US 45W
interchange and the speed limit becomes 70 again. There was some visible
construction here; it may be the TN 22 freeway extension, but I couldn't
tell. The control city is South Fulton (is South Fulton even
incorporated?)

The freeway meets a rather abrupt end just short of US 45E, where there
is a median U-turn for an exit, followed by a partial cloverleaf with the
US 45E interchange. I followed the ramp marked "US 51 Purchase Pky",
which is an extension of the US 45E mainline to the actual Purchase
Parkway at the state line; apparently US 51 shifts to the old alignment
through Fulton at the state line. No welcome center.

All of the signs on the Purchase Parkway are just that: Purchase Parkway
signs. It may be the "Jackson Purchase Parkway" on paper, but Kentucky
hasn't signed it that way. The parkway is probably a mid-1960s standard
freeway, with a relatively narrow median with no barrier. At exit 21,
the parkway exits itself to join the Mayfield bypass; presumably the feds
insisted on this design since that part of the parkway was built with
federal funds (the parkway was built as a toll road). I also noticed a
few odd interchanges which I'd call an "inner cloverleaf"; the entrance
ramp is before the entrance ramp, with a weave under the bridge.

Diagram:

| _>>__
|/ v
========== Overpass
|\_<<_v
|
^ Parkway

There wasn't much traffic at all on this route. I-24 was a bit busier.
Of slight annoyance was Kentucky's 65 mph speed limit, but most everyone
was going 75 or so. I-24 has a pretty nice pair of bridges over the
Tennessee and Cumberland rivers. From I-24 I took the (politician's
name) Western Kentucky Parkway east, which was of similar design to the
Purchase Pkwy. (IMHO they should stop renaming the parkways, or at least
retain the old abbreviations on the signs, as the whole name of the WK is
completely unreadable on a sign.) Not much traffic at all along here.

I then took the (politician's name) Pennyrile Pkwy north to Henderson.
The southernmost few miles were having some resurfacing work done. There
was a bit more traffic. At Henderson, the parkway devolves into a
six-lane US 41, with two left turn lanes (think of a really wide center
turn lane with a teeny median that has about as much impact on a car
going over it as a bott's dot and apparently only exists so the road
isn't subject to the school bus no median rule). The northbound Ohio
River bridge is pretty narrow with two lanes and no shoulder; the bridge
is at a point where the Kentucky-Indiana border is on an old course of
the river, so the whole bridge is in Kentucky and there is a horse racing
track (in Ky) on the north side. The I-164 interchange is about a mile
north of the state line; here, US 41 has a control city of Vincennes even
though "Downtown Evansville" seems much more appropriate.

I-164 changes directions from east to north around mile #5; it has those
blue median 2/10 mile markers that have shown up in Tennessee, but they
are narrower and are even posted on some non-Interstates (TDOT hasn't put
them on TN 385, for example, but INDOT put some on US 41). Some work on
a new interchange around milepost 10. There were a few big VMSes around
but they weren't saying anything. At the north end there's no real
signage about how to get to US 41; INDOT apparently wants people to drive
through Evansville. Indiana has an annoying 65 mph rural interstate
limit, coupled with the always-brilliant "let's introduce speed
differentials to make the accidents nice and gory" 60 mph truck speed
limit. Nobody seemed to be obeying either, even when cops were around.

At US 41 the interchange is under construction, with a light controlling
the US 41 north ramp. I stopped at Flying J for gas ($1.149, minus a
one-cent discount for using their card). US 41 north of Evansville is a
much better road than I remember it being about 6 years ago; INDOT has
apparently done a lot of work to reconstruct it, though it's still far
short of rural Interstate standards in a lot of places. If INDOT routes
I-69 through here, it won't be cheap.

The most annoying thing about this road isn't its design; it's the speed
limit. Indiana has a 55 mph speed limit on the road, which is obscenely
low for a rural expressway in 2001. No wonder the people in South Bend
want US 31 upgraded to a freeway; that's the only way they'll ever get a
halfway-decent speed limit for it.

No evidence of any work on IN 641 at Terre Haute, which has been in the
"drawing board" stages since the first time I ever set foot in Terre
Haute 9 years ago. I suspect the state is holding off on any
construction until I-69 is settled; it may not even be worth building if
I-69 doesn't go near Terre Haute. (I nearly used the word "bypasses",
but any route will bypass Terre Haute proper by several miles.) Terre
Haute appears to more-or-less have stagnated since my last visit (which I
suppose is an improvement over declining, which it did quite well in the
past). Spent the night at the Signature Inn, which is a nice enough
hotel.

I-70 to Indy was a pretty nice drive, particularly the portion from TH to
Cloverdale. East of there it goes into "flat boring Indiana." At Indy I
stayed on I-70 through town, but there was a big backup just past
Keystone so I got off and worked my way to Massachussets Avenue (former
US 36/IN 67). Ate lunch at McDonald's (I won a free extra value meal).
Then took 465 up to 69. Couldn't read the BGS that named former IN 37
through Indy; IIRC it was "SR 37" from where Fall Creek Pkwy branched
off, so I guess they had to make up a name (see Cooper, Sam).

I-69 north of Indy was a pretty nice drive, though relatively flat.
Traffic was moderately heavy, though moving at a good clip; I was
averaging 77-80, and wasn't the fastest out there. North of Fort Wayne,
all of the US 27 reassurance markers have disappeared, and at least some
of the overhead BGSes on overpasses have had the 27 shield removed or
greened out. At the Michigan line, US 27 is resurrected but has smaller
shields (24x24 I think) mounted on the I-69 assembly. Caught my first
and only welcome center on the trip, which had a good selection of stuff
for all parts of the state and the 2001 state map. Finally a state with
a reasonable rural freeway speed limit (70), though apparently they
haven't learned that it's speed differentials (not speed) that kills,
since trucks are supposed to go 55. Thankfully the trucks don't go 55 so
the carnage was minimized.

I opted to take M-60 instead of following I-69 all the way to Marshall,
which was a nice route that passed through a few villages (apparently a
village is the settlement center of a township, but I'll leave it to the
municipal governance gurus to correct my impression). Even the short
M-60 freeway at Jackson is signed 70 mph; Michigan is a state after my
own heart (or life if one of the 55 mph trucks cuts me off).

From Jackson the traffic on I-94 was quite heavy; it really needs to be 6
lanes from US 127 to M-14.

Respectfully submitted,


Chris

Jeffrey Coleman Carlyle

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Jul 25, 2001, 9:20:01 AM7/25/01
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"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in message
news:20010725.02325...@watervalley.net...

>
> All of the signs on the Purchase Parkway are just that: Purchase Parkway
> signs. It may be the "Jackson Purchase Parkway" on paper, but Kentucky
> hasn't signed it that way. The parkway is probably a mid-1960s standard
> freeway, with a relatively narrow median with no barrier. At exit 21,
> the parkway exits itself to join the Mayfield bypass; presumably the feds
> insisted on this design since that part of the parkway was built with
> federal funds (the parkway was built as a toll road). I also noticed a
> few odd interchanges which I'd call an "inner cloverleaf"; the entrance
> ramp is before the entrance ramp, with a weave under the bridge.
>
> Diagram:
>
> | _>>__
> |/ v
> ========== Overpass
> |\_<<_v
> |
> ^ Parkway
>

These are common on Kentucky's parkways and are where toll boths were once
located.

mrpete

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Jul 25, 2001, 2:43:19 PM7/25/01
to

"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote in message
news:20010725.02325...@watervalley.net...
> Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -
> I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465 - I-69 - M-60 - I-94
> (Some sidetrips excluded.)
>
> US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg is four lanes and passes through
several
> towns. Most of the parts between towns are posted at 55 mph, though
> further north there are some 65 mph sections. It's fairly hilly and the
> vertical alignment is well below Interstate standards in a lot of areas;
> TDOT is probably right to be planning a new route for I-69 through the
> area (as opposed to overlaying US 51 and adding a few bypasses and
> overpasses).
>
I was on US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg in April but never got around
to doing the report for the trip. It seems to be a very old 4 laning
project with many business and private driveways - seems pretty dangerous.
Some of the roads going off to the west have cool signs informing drivers
that there are no ferries and the Mississippi River.

We took I-155 into Missouri simply to see/cross the river. There was very
little traffic on the road (I wonder why this was built as an interstate),
but many wide load pre-fab homes being hauled. There must be a factory in
the area...

>
> There wasn't much traffic at all on this route. I-24 was a bit busier.
> Of slight annoyance was Kentucky's 65 mph speed limit, but most everyone
> was going 75 or so. I-24 has a pretty nice pair of bridges over the
> Tennessee and Cumberland rivers.

And you can see the dams from them.

From I-24 I took the (politician's
> name) Western Kentucky Parkway east, which was of similar design to the
> Purchase Pkwy

Isn't the Wendell H. Ford (IIRC) Western Kentucky Parkway pretty close to
interstate standard?

>
The northbound Ohio
> River bridge is pretty narrow with two lanes and no shoulder; the bridge
> is at a point where the Kentucky-Indiana border is on an old course of
> the river, so the whole bridge is in Kentucky and there is a horse racing
> track (in Ky) on the north side

Cool [pulls out atlas and Ohio River navigation charts]

Did you come home the same way, or did you stay in Ann Arbor?
-Pete Jenior


Dan Garnell

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Jul 25, 2001, 3:04:45 PM7/25/01
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> I-164 changes directions from east to north around mile #5; it has those
> blue median 2/10 mile markers that have shown up in Tennessee, but they
> are narrower and are even posted on some non-Interstates (TDOT hasn't put
> them on TN 385, for example, but INDOT put some on US 41).

OhDOT, InDOT, & KyDOT have likewise placed these blue 2/10 mi. or 1/4 mi.
markers in the metro Cincinnati & Lexington areas, & I think the
metro Columbus area as well. These markers seem to be popping up more &
more in this region.


> I-70 to Indy was a pretty nice drive, particularly the portion from TH to
> Cloverdale. East of there it goes into "flat boring Indiana." At Indy I
> stayed on I-70 through town, but there was a big backup just past
> Keystone so I got off and worked my way to Massachussets Avenue (former
> US 36/IN 67). Ate lunch at McDonald's (I won a free extra value meal).
> Then took 465 up to 69. Couldn't read the BGS that named former IN 37
> through Indy; IIRC it was "SR 37" from where Fall Creek Pkwy branched
> off, so I guess they had to make up a name (see Cooper, Sam).
>

This brings up a good question, for those of you who have been on I-465
recently: are any of the US or IN routes that are picked up by the 465(/74)
bypass to go around Indy now signed on the bypass? I know the last time I took
the route 2 years ago, none were. If not, is there some sign when these roads
join 465 that announces that you must take 465 to rejoin the routes on the other
sign of town?

> At the Michigan line, US 27 is resurrected but has smaller
> shields (24x24 I think) mounted on the I-69 assembly.

I-69 was recently reconstructed through here. Didn't they re-sign the entire
freeway through here? If so, why would there still be US-27 shields up there?

>
> I opted to take M-60 instead of following I-69 all the way to Marshall,
> which was a nice route that passed through a few villages (apparently a
> village is the settlement center of a township, but I'll leave it to the
> municipal governance gurus to correct my impression).

M-60 is an excellent alternative to I-94 (via I-69), and I believe shaves
about 10 miles off of your trip. The interesting thing about this route
is the brief 4-lane section to the east of Homer, w/ an extremely wide
median. US-24 is also like this in Monroe Co., just north of Luna Pier Rd.
These are interesting formations, especially since both stretches of 4-lane
divided are < 2 miles each in length.


>
> From Jackson the traffic on I-94 was quite heavy; it really needs to be 6
> lanes from US 127 to M-14.
>

94 was widened to 6 lanes last year (I believe) from ~ mile 165 to M-14
(6 miles). In fact, I-94 around Ann Arbor is only 4 lanes right now
(M-14 to US-23), but there are plans to widen that to 6 lanes about 3-4
years down the road. Beyond that, though, there are no concrete plans to
widen I-94 west of mile 165...but I could see something happening in the
not too distant future, from my experiences w/ I-94...

Dan Garnell
djg...@yahoo.com

BD

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Jul 25, 2001, 4:39:29 PM7/25/01
to
Some comments:

Most of these newfangled 1/10 and 2/10 mile markers posted in the center
median on expressways are part of total transportation systems. The CMS's
that accompany those mile markers are also part of the system. Part of the
reason for adding more minute markers to the signage is to signal to drivers
more closely where accidents and backups are and to assist emergency
services to a more exact location. Indiana has also started signing some
U.S. highways with them (U.S. 31 in Kokomo also has the 2/10 mile markers).

And as far as signage for the U.S. and S.R. routes on the I-465 beltway,
they aren't signed well. For the most part when a road enters the beltway
there is a BGS that says something like "For <insert route shield here>
follow I-465 to Exit <enter exit number here>" The extranous shields are
not put on BGS or reassurance markers. Only I-74 and I-465 are on those.


"Dan Garnell" <djg...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:78b54403.01072...@posting.google.com...

Jeffrey Coleman Carlyle

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Jul 25, 2001, 7:26:49 PM7/25/01
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"mrpete" <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:tlu50oc...@corp.supernews.com...

>
>
> From I-24 I took the (politician's
> > name) Western Kentucky Parkway east, which was of similar design to the
> > Purchase Pkwy
>
> Isn't the Wendell H. Ford (IIRC) Western Kentucky Parkway pretty close to
> interstate standard?
>

Though much of the parkway has been improved over the years, I'm not quite
sure if it would meet interstate standards. It is fully-controlled access,
but I think there might be problems with the width of the margin and the
conditions of the inside and outside shoulder. Though I must admit I don't
know the exact geometry of the parkway and interstate standards.

Orginally the parkways median was raised in the center. This created a lot
of problems with drainage and according to my father, during the winter
parts of it would become a solid sheet of ice. Most of the median has been
replaced and the drainage problems solved. The WK Parkway was one of the
earlier parkways in Kentucky so I'd imagine it would be furthest from modern
interstate standards. (There are left exists and entrances at a service area
and a state police station.)


mrpete

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Jul 25, 2001, 10:07:49 PM7/25/01
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"BD" <b...@bd.com> wrote in message news:GH1qp...@news.boeing.com...

> Some comments:
>
> Most of these newfangled 1/10 and 2/10 mile markers posted in the center
> median on expressways are part of total transportation systems. The CMS's
> that accompany those mile markers are also part of the system. Part of
the
> reason for adding more minute markers to the signage is to signal to
drivers
> more closely where accidents and backups are and to assist emergency
> services to a more exact location. Indiana has also started signing some
> U.S. highways with them (U.S. 31 in Kokomo also has the 2/10 mile
markers).
>
> And as far as signage for the U.S. and S.R. routes on the I-465 beltway,
> they aren't signed well. For the most part when a road enters the beltway
> there is a BGS that says something like "For <insert route shield here>
> follow I-465 to Exit <enter exit number here>" The extranous shields are
> not put on BGS or reassurance markers. Only I-74 and I-465 are on those.

There is at least 1 US 31 shield on the eastern part of I-465, but I get
your drift...
-Pete Jenior

BD

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Jul 26, 2001, 1:49:58 AM7/26/01
to
Yes, I have seen a couple U.S. 31 and S.R. 37 shields on the betlway, but
nothing consitent. I think the best way for the state to sign these roads
would be to add a new panel to gantries on the left side every couple miles
giving drivers alerts as to what roads they are on:

----------------------------------
| SOUTH WEST EAST |
| 465 31 37 36 40 52 |
| Dayton |
| Cincinatti |
----------------------------------


I also think INDOT should add control cities to the beltway (Ft. Wayne,
Dayton, Cincinatti, Louisville, St. Louis, Peoria and Chicago). With the
eventual addition of I-69, I think INDOT should consider decomissioning the
I-465 designation along the parts where it would be multiplexed with I-69
and I-74.

"mrpete" <mrp...@fuse.net> wrote in message

news:tluv1me...@corp.supernews.com...

mrpete

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Jul 26, 2001, 9:53:06 AM7/26/01
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"BD" <inoute...@hotmail.remove.me.for.no.spam.com> wrote in message
news:peO77.323$_q3.1...@nnrp3.sbc.net...

> Yes, I have seen a couple U.S. 31 and S.R. 37 shields on the betlway, but
> nothing consitent. I think the best way for the state to sign these roads
> would be to add a new panel to gantries on the left side every couple
miles
> giving drivers alerts as to what roads they are on:
>
> ----------------------------------
> | SOUTH WEST EAST |
> | 465 31 37 36 40 52 |
> | Dayton |
> | Cincinatti |
> ----------------------------------

Except they should spell it "Cincinnati" (only know it because I live
there) :-)


>
>
> I also think INDOT should add control cities to the beltway (Ft. Wayne,
> Dayton, Cincinatti, Louisville, St. Louis, Peoria and Chicago). With the
> eventual addition of I-69, I think INDOT should consider decomissioning
the
> I-465 designation along the parts where it would be multiplexed with I-69
> and I-74.
>

A loop should be a loop - it would be confusing if part of the road was not
465. I've also never been a big fan of control cities on beltways. I find
them confusing since the road doesn't really lead to the cities. In some
cases, though, it can work...
-Pete Jenior


Jon Enslin

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Jul 27, 2001, 7:51:01 AM7/27/01
to
Chris Lawrence wrote:

>
> The most annoying thing about this road isn't its design; it's the speed
> limit. Indiana has a 55 mph speed limit on the road, which is obscenely
> low for a rural expressway in 2001.


What's worse is US-41/IN-63 between Chicago and Terre Haute. 55 mph and
absolutely no traffic whatsoever on a four-lane, rural expressway.

Jon

Elkins, H.B.

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Jul 27, 2001, 1:53:41 PM7/27/01
to
"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote:

>I also noticed a
>few odd interchanges which I'd call an "inner cloverleaf"; the entrance
>ramp is before the entrance ramp, with a weave under the bridge.

These were the sites of toll booths. All traffic had to stop at the
toll booth under the bridge, with entering or exiting traffic paying
approximately half what the thru traffic did. You'll also find exits
like this on the WK, Pennyrile, BG and Mountain parkways where the
tolls have been removed, and on the Cumberland, Natcher and Audubon
parkways where tolls are still charged.

The only interchange like this which has been rebuilt is Exit 33, KY
11 on the Mountain Parkway.

>There wasn't much traffic at all on this route. I-24 was a bit busier.
>Of slight annoyance was Kentucky's 65 mph speed limit, but most everyone
>was going 75 or so. I-24 has a pretty nice pair of bridges over the
>Tennessee and Cumberland rivers. From I-24 I took the (politician's
>name) Western Kentucky Parkway east, which was of similar design to the
>Purchase Pkwy. (IMHO they should stop renaming the parkways, or at least
>retain the old abbreviations on the signs, as the whole name of the WK is
>completely unreadable on a sign.) Not much traffic at all along here.

Wendell H. Ford.

>I then took the (politician's name) Pennyrile Pkwy north to Henderson.

I like what Kentucky has done to the Pennyrile, Cumberland and
Mountain Parkways better, which is little auxiliary plates above the
old parkway logo signs with the politician's name on it.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++
H.B. Elkins mailto:hbel...@mis.net or mailto:HB...@aol.com
http://www.millenniumhwy.net
http://www.users.mis.net/~hbelkins

"There's no doubt he's the best race driver in the world."
--Dale Jarrett, on Dale Earnhardt (RIP 2/18/01)

Waltrip, Kentucky, Anybody but North Carolina
To reply, you gotta do what NASCAR won't -- remove the restrictor plates!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Elkins, H.B.

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Jul 27, 2001, 1:55:47 PM7/27/01
to
"Jeffrey Coleman Carlyle" <jeffrey...@home.com> wrote:

>Orginally the parkways median was raised in the center. This created a lot
>of problems with drainage and according to my father, during the winter
>parts of it would become a solid sheet of ice. Most of the median has been
>replaced and the drainage problems solved. The WK Parkway was one of the
>earlier parkways in Kentucky so I'd imagine it would be furthest from modern
>interstate standards. (There are left exists and entrances at a service area
>and a state police station.)

The Mountain Parkway was the earliest. It has a depressed median. The
BG and WK parkways were built about the same time, but the BG has a
standard depressed median while much of the WK still has the raised
median.

The WK's surface is rough as can be. I bounced along all 137 miles of
it, both ways, during my recent MO-AR road trip (which I know I have
still not posted here).

Marc Fannin

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Jul 27, 2001, 6:47:27 PM7/27/01
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"BD" <b...@bd.com> wrote in message news:<GH1qp...@news.boeing.com>...

> Most of these newfangled 1/10 and 2/10 mile markers posted in the center


> median on expressways are part of total transportation systems. The CMS's
> that accompany those mile markers are also part of the system. Part of the
> reason for adding more minute markers to the signage is to signal to drivers
> more closely where accidents and backups are and to assist emergency
> services to a more exact location.

There is a page about these: http://www.artimis.org/system.php
It includes photos and a list of locations which use them.
(I've been trying to get this link in the FAQ for almost a year now....)

________________________________________________________________________
Marc Fannin|musx...@kent.edu or @hotmail.com| http://www.roadfan.com/

Marc Fannin

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Jul 27, 2001, 7:05:35 PM7/27/01
to
"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote...

> Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -
> I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465 - I-69 - M-60 - I-94
> (Some sidetrips excluded.)
>

> [snip]


>
> Couldn't read the BGS that named former IN 37
> through Indy; IIRC it was "SR 37" from where Fall Creek Pkwy branched
> off, so I guess they had to make up a name (see Cooper, Sam).

Binford Boulevard. I've never seen it in person -- I'm just citing
this post:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9c4d30%24s5p%241%40bob.news.rcn.net

(A note about Google Groups URL's: One can shorten them considerably.
All that's needed is http://groups.google.com/groups? then selm=[code]
for posts and th=[code] for threads. When you get to an ampersand (&)
after that, you can delete it and everything after.)

I woulda helped you with the Southern Michigan parts before your trip,
BTW, but I've never been on M-60 east of Three Rivers (US 131
corridor).

Marc Fannin

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Jul 27, 2001, 7:06:04 PM7/27/01
to
[Sorry if this is a duplicate]

"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote...

> Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -
> I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465 - I-69 - M-60 - I-94
> (Some sidetrips excluded.)
>

> [snip]


>
> Couldn't read the BGS that named former IN 37
> through Indy; IIRC it was "SR 37" from where Fall Creek Pkwy branched
> off, so I guess they had to make up a name (see Cooper, Sam).

Binford Boulevard. I've never seen it in person -- I'm just citing

Marc Fannin

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Jul 27, 2001, 7:07:26 PM7/27/01
to
[Sorry if this is a duplicate]

"Chris Lawrence" <qua...@watervalley.net> wrote...

> Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -


> I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465 - I-69 - M-60 - I-94
> (Some sidetrips excluded.)
>

> [snip]


>
> Couldn't read the BGS that named former IN 37
> through Indy; IIRC it was "SR 37" from where Fall Creek Pkwy branched
> off, so I guess they had to make up a name (see Cooper, Sam).

Binford Boulevard. I've never seen it in person -- I'm just citing

Public <Anonymous_Account>

unread,
Jul 27, 2001, 6:16:16 PM7/27/01
to
> Route: US 51 - Purchase Pkwy - I-24 - WK Pkwy - Pennyrile Pkwy - US 41 -
> I-164 - I-64 - US 41 (TH) - I-70 - I-465

If they would get with the program and sign this route as I-69, it would be a single route instead of 11.

> US 51 between Memphis and Dyersburg is four lanes and passes through several
> towns. Most of the parts between towns are posted at 55 mph, though
> further north there are some 65 mph sections. It's fairly hilly and the
> vertical alignment is well below Interstate standards in a lot of areas;
> TDOT is probably right to be planning a new route for I-69 through the
> area (as opposed to overlaying US 51 and adding a few bypasses and
> overpasses).

Good, go ahead and sign it as I-69 now.

> At Four Corners, I had planned to cut over on old TN 20 (now TN 210) to
> US 412, but it was closed for some reason so I ended up following a
> detour and probably going 5 miles out of the way. Eventually I got over
> to US 412, which is posted for 65 mph and as a bike route. It has paved
> shoulders. North of TN 210, the road is close to a freeway, with only
> two at-grade crossings that could easily be bridged or closed; presumably
> I-69 could follow this route south and then cut over towards the US 51
> alignment. US 51 joins US 412 for about 1 mile to the I-155 interchange.
> At I-155, the control city is St. Louis. US 51's control city is Union
> City. (photo)

Extend I-155 to I-40.

-Tom From Ohio

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Nick Tallyn

unread,
Jul 28, 2001, 5:39:46 PM7/28/01
to
How about Bloomington (SR 37) and I suppose Kokomo (or South Bend) for US31
north?

Nick

BD

unread,
Jul 28, 2001, 8:58:59 PM7/28/01
to
Nah... From the 3dis that have control cities, the control cities are
usually those of the 2dis that branch from/intersect with it and are the
control cities for the directions that are away from the population center
of the 3di.

Bloomington and Kokomo aren't huge population centers in the state compared
to Indy and Ft. Wayne and they don't have interstates through them, heck
Lafayette isn't used as a control city on I-65. If I were to put a control
city on the northside for any proposed interstate that replaces U.S. 31 I
would use South Bend over Kokomo.

"Nick Tallyn" <nta...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
news:3B633121...@pcisys.net...

BD

unread,
Jul 28, 2001, 9:10:05 PM7/28/01
to
This brought up a question that I have had for a while. What state
maintains the sliver of I-275 that crosses through Indiana?

Ahh.. yes a good prototype for those 1/10 and 2/10 mile markers. I also
forgot about those "Ramp 253 | U.S. 30 E to I-65 N" signs. They're all over
the population centers in Indiana.

Here is INDOT's site for the state's TrafficWise system that is in place in
Louisville (partnership with KYDOT), Indianapolis and Gary (Borman
Expy/I-65).

http://www.state.in.us/dot/trafficwise/

http://trimarc.vprlnk.net/

Cheers!

"Marc Fannin" <musx...@kent.edu> wrote in message
news:cc3aa42a.01072...@posting.google.com...

BD

unread,
Jul 28, 2001, 9:16:00 PM7/28/01
to
Actually I think it was the Fall Creek Pkwy. It is the road with those
terrible lane control signals.

"Marc Fannin" <musx...@kent.edu> wrote in message
news:cc3aa42a.01072...@posting.google.com...

Chris Bessert

unread,
Jul 29, 2001, 2:04:55 AM7/29/01
to
Chris Lawrence wrote:
>
> [good stuff snipped]

> At the Michigan line, US 27 is resurrected but has smaller
> shields (24x24 I think) mounted on the I-69 assembly.

Really? I know MDOT removed all of the (smaller) US-27 markers from
the I-69 and I-96/I-69 reassurance assemblies between Charlotte (Mile
60) and De Witt (Mile 89) where US-27 diverges for the North Country.
I just assumed the same occured for the first 60 miles... Hmmm...

> Caught my first and only welcome center on the trip, which had a good
> selection of stuff for all parts of the state and the 2001 state map.

Yeah, the 2001 state map issues in June 2001... Earlier than the 2000
state map issued in August 2000... :^P Interesting to hear your pos-
itive comments on the Coldwater Welcome Center -- I've thought of it
as one of the 'lesser-quality' Michigan welcome centers, in the league
of Dundee (US-23), Port Huron (I-94/I-69), Mackinaw City (I-75, M-108),
Sault Ste Marie (I-75) and Ironwood (US-2) -- small, slightly-dumpy,
and looking precisely like they did when constructed in the late-60s
and 1970s... Definately different than the Monroe (I-75), Clare
(US-27/US-10), New Baltimore (I-94) and Marquette (US-41/M-28) welcome
centers!

> Finally a state with
> a reasonable rural freeway speed limit (70), though apparently they
> haven't learned that it's speed differentials (not speed) that kills,
> since trucks are supposed to go 55. Thankfully the trucks don't go 55 so
> the carnage was minimized.

The only time trucks go 55 mph on Michigan freeways is when there is
a state police officer actively patrolling and in a bad mood. I've
seen state police clocking semis at more than 65 mph and not even
flinch. I live with that 55/70 (realistically 65/75...) speed differential
on a daily basis and I think it's pretty stupid myself...

> I opted to take M-60 instead of following I-69 all the way to Marshall,
> which was a nice route that passed through a few villages (apparently a
> village is the settlement center of a township, but I'll leave it to the
> municipal governance gurus to correct my impression).

Be happy to! :^) A village in Michigan is, like a city, an incorpor-
ated community but, unlike a city, also remains part of its surrounding
township. Kind of bizarre for those not familiar with it, I'll admit.
There are many unincorporated communities having ten (or more) times
the population of some villages.

> Even the short
> M-60 freeway at Jackson is signed 70 mph; Michigan is a state after my
> own heart (or life if one of the 55 mph trucks cuts me off).

Even better, the 70 mph speed limit usually lasts far into metropolitan
areas. For example, I-96 is 70 mph for almost its entire length, save
for 2 miles of 65 at Grand Rapids (US-131 interchange) and the last
several miles in Detroit, east of US-24/Telegraph Rd.

> From Jackson the traffic on I-94 was quite heavy; it really needs to be 6
> lanes from US 127 to M-14.

Preachin' to the choir on that one, Chris! ;^) While the state is curr-
ently studying six-laning I-94 through Kalamazoo and Jackson, I think
those efforts need to be doubled -- at least -- and special attention
given to the four-lane stretch at Ann Arbor. I think I-94 should be
six-laned throughout Michigan -- eventually -- maybe in the next 25
or so years. We'll see if *that* happens...

Great report and nice to meet you earlier today!

Later,
Chris

--
Chris Bessert
Bess...@aol.com

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