Electric cars are SHIT

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Voice of REASON

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Mar 7, 2021, 10:02:09 PMMar 7
to
Goodbye Personal Mobility
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241716

> This is a fairly typical "car review" coming from an online rag that,
> no surprise, writes car reviews.
>
> Buried in all of the prose, as is always the case, is the slam: Personal
> mobility is ending in the United States. 100 years of the ability to go
> where you want, when you want, literally anywhere within the confines of
> Continental United States for any lawful purpose or no purpose at all is
> ending. It will become more and more difficult to maintain over the
> next 10 years and become effectively impossible within 20 to 30 years
> for people of ordinary means.
>
> This is literally the end of America going all the way back to the
> Founders.
>
> You see a horse needed something to eat and water to drink. An EV needs
> electricity; highly-refined energy at the highest commonly-used form,
> and it needs it in size. The networks necessary to deliver that can be
> gated off to you at any time by corporate or government interests, and
> if they are you're ****ed. If something goes wrong on your journey,
> delaying you and increasing that consumption -- you're ****ed.
>
> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even the most-
> expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles. The non-return range can
> be around 300, but that doesn't matter when you get down to it because
> it presumes charging at a rational rate is available at the other end --
> or wherever you wind up. It sounds like 30 minutes of charging time for
> a "top off" isn't so bad and it isn't when there is one vehicle that
> wants to be charged in a given place. Now pull into a Pilot or Love's
> on any day, on any highway and count the number of cars that pull to the
> pump in a 30 minute period. Only one of those vehicles for each pump
> fills if its electric.
>
> The rest are stranded.

Rod Speed

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Mar 7, 2021, 11:00:29 PMMar 7
to
Voice of REASON <rea...@anon.net> wrote

Voice of mindless bullshit, actually.

> Goodbye Personal Mobility

More mindless bullshit.

> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241716

>> This is a fairly typical "car review" coming from
>> an online rag that, no surprise, writes car reviews.

>> Buried in all of the prose, as is always the case, is the slam:
>> Personal mobility is ending in the United States.

Bullshit it is.

>> 100 years of the ability to go where you want, when you want,
>> literally anywhere within the confines of Continental United
>> States for any lawful purpose or no purpose at all is ending.

Bullshit it is. Its even easier than it has ever been and at most might
not be quite as convenient as it has become in recent times.

>> It will become more and more difficult
>> to maintain over the next 10 years

Bullshit. At most just a bit less convenient.

>> and become effectively impossible within
>> 20 to 30 years for people of ordinary means.

More mindless bullshit. At most you might have
to charge your EV more slowly and more often
than you would have to do with an ICE.

>> This is literally the end of America going
>> all the way back to the Founders.

Bullshit. They had to go to a hell of a lot more effort to get
anywhere in the USA than we do now, or will do in the future.

>> You see a horse needed something to eat and water to
>> drink. An EV needs electricity; highly-refined energy at
>> the highest commonly-used form, and it needs it in size.

But that energy is much easier to produce now with nukes
and we have the distribution system that allows it to be
moved to where it is needed much more easily than we have
ever had before and we can move much more comfortably
when just horses and grass was the energy source.

>> The networks necessary to deliver that can be gated
>> off to you at any time by corporate or government
>> interests, and if they are you're ****ed.

Nope, you can still generate your own if they do that.

>> If something goes wrong on your journey, delaying
>> you and increasing that consumption -- you're ****ed.

Just as true when the weather fucks what you want to do.

>> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even
>> the most-expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles.
>> The non-return range can be around 300, but that doesn't
>> matter when you get down to it because it presumes
>> charging at a rational rate is available at the other end --
>> or wherever you wind up.

And it is with all but the most remote travel.

>> It sounds like 30 minutes of charging time for a "top off"
>> isn't so bad and it isn't when there is one vehicle that wants
>> to be charged in a given place. Now pull into a Pilot or Love's
>> on any day, on any highway and count the number of cars
>> that pull to the pump in a 30 minute period. Only one of
>> those vehicles for each pump fills if its electric.

>> The rest are stranded.

Not when there is a charger for everyone.

Rich Keebler

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Mar 7, 2021, 11:37:21 PMMar 7
to
Voice of REASON wrote
Shooting rightist Americunts is not shit, it's fun.

I bagged 6 of you this weekend!


Byker

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Mar 8, 2021, 1:12:08 PMMar 8
to
"Voice of REASON" wrote in message news:s2443f$2kgc$1...@neodome.net...
>
> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even the most-
> expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles. The non-return range can
> be around 300, but that doesn't matter when you get down to it because
> it presumes charging at a rational rate is available at the other end --
> or wherever you wind up. It sounds like 30 minutes of charging time for
> a "top off" isn't so bad and it isn't when there is one vehicle that
> wants to be charged in a given place. Now pull into a Pilot or Love's
> on any day, on any highway and count the number of cars that pull to the
> pump in a 30 minute period. Only one of those vehicles for each pump
> fills if its electric.
>
> The rest are stranded.

Why you'll see so few "fast" charging stations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLcqJ2DclEg

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Why+evs+are+not+catching+on

Alan Baker

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Mar 8, 2021, 1:44:25 PMMar 8
to
On 2021-03-07 7:02 p.m., Voice of REASON wrote:
> Goodbye Personal Mobility

<snip>

>> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even the most-
>> expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles. The non-return range can
>> be around 300...


Why would I even bother rebutting other than to say that if the
non-return range is 300 miles...

...the the return range is 150.

News

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Mar 8, 2021, 2:14:58 PMMar 8
to
Not 'guaranteed'

Byker

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Mar 8, 2021, 3:23:28 PMMar 8
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"News" wrote in message news:s25t3g$atd$1...@dont-email.me...
Especially at this time of year...

The Real Bev

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Mar 8, 2021, 5:54:46 PMMar 8
to
Got an executive summary of 100 words or fewer? Videos are rarely worth
the time required to watch them.

> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Why+evs+are+not+catching+on

--
Cheers, Bev
Judges are our only protection against a legal system that can
afford lots more prosecution than we can afford defense.

sms

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Mar 8, 2021, 7:32:25 PMMar 8
to
On 3/8/2021 2:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

They've really over-built the number of fast charging stations in my
area. They have 28 Tesla super chargers at our local Target store
<https://i2.wp.com/teslanorth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/na11la7w4px51.jpg>
and another 10 down the street at a small shopping center
<http://teslatouring.com/steve/2018g07b/2018-07-08%2000.00.58.jpg>.

The Tesla Model 3, which is the most popular electric car around here,
doesn't include free use of super-chargers. Since most people don't
drive hundreds of miles per day, it's much more economical to charge at
home, and a lot of people have installed solar panels that are
generating more electricity than they can use so they're not paying per
KWH for electricity. The pay-for-use chargers sit mostly empty because
the cost per KWH, around 40¢, is way too high.

Electric cars still aren't great for multi-hundred mile drives like from
Northern to Southern California. It takes too long to refill the batteries.

Voice of REASON

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Mar 8, 2021, 8:32:12 PMMar 8
to
Rod Speed wrote:

> More mindless bullshit. At most you might have to charge your EV more
> slowly and more often than you would have to do with an ICE.

Charging an EV is a LOT slower than filling a tank with gasoline.

> But that energy is much easier to produce now with nukes
> and we have the distribution system that allows it to be moved to where
> it is needed much more easily than we have ever had before and we can
> move much more comfortably when just horses and grass was the energy
> source.

Carter destroyed the civilian nuclear power industry in the United
States by banning the commercial reprocessing of spent fuel. Reagan
undid that, but NOBODY is going to even TRY to restart such
reprocessing when a president can flush a costly investment down
the toilet with the stroke of a pen.

Oh, and Biden just did the same to the oil and natural gas industry.

>>> The networks necessary to deliver that can be gated off to you at any
>>> time by corporate or government interests, and if they are you're
>>> ****ed.
>
> Nope, you can still generate your own if they do that.

Using what? Unicorn shit?

>>> If something goes wrong on your journey, delaying you and increasing
>>> that consumption -- you're ****ed.
>
> Just as true when the weather fucks what you want to do.

With an ICE, rarely to the point of leaving you totally stranded.

Alan Baker

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Mar 8, 2021, 9:13:16 PMMar 8
to
On 2021-03-08 5:32 p.m., Voice of REASON wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> More mindless bullshit. At most you might have to charge your EV more
>> slowly and more often than you would have to do with an ICE.
>
> Charging an EV is a LOT slower than filling a tank with gasoline.

Yup!

But lots and lots of people can do it at home... ...while they're sleeping.

>
>> But that energy is much easier to produce now with nukes
>> and we have the distribution system that allows it to be moved to where
>> it is needed much more easily than we have ever had before and we can
>> move much more comfortably when just horses and grass was the energy
>> source.
>
> Carter destroyed the civilian nuclear power industry in the United
> States by banning the commercial reprocessing of spent fuel. Reagan
> undid that, but NOBODY is going to even TRY to restart such
> reprocessing when a president can flush a costly investment down
> the toilet with the stroke of a pen.
>
> Oh, and Biden just did the same to the oil and natural gas industry.
>
>>>> The networks necessary to deliver that can be gated off to you at any
>>>> time by corporate or government interests, and if they are you're
>>>> ****ed.
>>
>> Nope, you can still generate your own if they do that.
>
> Using what? Unicorn shit?

Sunshine.

Wind.

Gasoline.

Diesel.

Natural gas.

Retrograde

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Mar 8, 2021, 9:26:28 PMMar 8
to
sms <scharf...@geemail.com> writes:

[Dropped a bunch of non-germane NGs and one dumbass one.]

> On 3/8/2021 2:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
> They've really over-built the number of fast charging stations in my
> area. They have 28 Tesla super chargers at our local Target store
> <https://i2.wp.com/teslanorth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/na11la7w4px51.jpg>
> and another 10 down the street at a small shopping center
> <http://teslatouring.com/steve/2018g07b/2018-07-08%2000.00.58.jpg>.

Stick around - many auto makers are going to abandon internal combustion
engines by 2035. Over that time, stores that have gotten customers used
to charging at their venues (while shopping, natch) will be doing just
fine. These stores are looking towards the future.


> The Tesla Model 3, which is the most popular electric car around here,
> doesn't include free use of super-chargers. Since most people don't
> drive hundreds of miles per day, it's much more economical to charge
> at home, and a lot of people have installed solar panels that are
> generating more electricity than they can use so they're not paying
> per KWH for electricity. The pay-for-use chargers sit mostly empty
> because the cost per KWH, around 40¢, is way too high.

You pay one way or the other. It's not free if you charge at home. If
you've got solar at home, OK you win!

>
> Electric cars still aren't great for multi-hundred mile drives like
> from Northern to Southern California. It takes too long to refill the
> batteries.

The tech is changing fast. Stay tuned.

nospam

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Mar 8, 2021, 10:02:30 PMMar 8
to
In article <s26j6q$fs9$1...@neodome.net>, Voice of REASON
<rea...@anon.net> wrote:

> Charging an EV is a LOT slower than filling a tank with gasoline.

that makes absolutely no difference when plugged in at home to charge
overnight.

every morning is a 'full tank'.

most trips are well within the maximum range, so there's no need to
stop to recharge until back home.

it's only an issue for the occasional long road trip, except that
hotels have chargers so even then, it can charge overnight as it would
at home.

there are also chargers at shopping centers, restaurants, parking
garages, various employers and i've even seen them at a public library.


tl;dr it's actually *less* of a hassle than refueling.

Jonathan

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Mar 8, 2021, 10:19:23 PMMar 8
to
On 3/7/2021 10:02 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
> Goodbye Personal Mobility
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241716
>
>> This is a fairly typical "car review" coming from an online rag that,
>> no surprise, writes car reviews.
>>



Have you ever driven a hybrid? They not only get great
mileage, but you don't need to plug them in, and
when stepping on the gas the gas engine and electric
motor add to each other's hp and they ...scream.


The BMW 330i Got a Staggering 42 MPG in Our 75-MPH Fuel-Economy Test
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28915017/2019-bmw-330i-fuel-economy-test/
--
https://twitter.com/Non_Linear1

Lewis

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Mar 8, 2021, 10:33:15 PMMar 8
to
In message <s26j6q$fs9$1...@neodome.net> Voice of REASON <rea...@anon.net> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:

>> More mindless bullshit. At most you might have to charge your EV more
>> slowly and more often than you would have to do with an ICE.

> Charging an EV is a LOT slower than filling a tank with gasoline.

Hardly matters, since you have to "fill" it much less frequently. And
fast chargers are quite fast, and very few people drive more than a EVs
max range at once.

But yes, I know, pesky facts.

> Oh, and Biden just did the same to the oil and natural gas industry.

Good.

> With an ICE, rarely to the point of leaving you totally stranded.

Only because trillions of dollars have been spent to build out an
infrastructure to support boom-boom cars.

--
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone,
but they've always worked for me." --Hunter Thompson

Rod Speed

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Mar 8, 2021, 10:54:59 PMMar 8
to
Voice of REASON <rea...@anon.net> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> At most you might have to charge your EV more slowly
>> and more often than you would have to do with an ICE.

> Charging an EV is a LOT slower than filling a tank with gasoline.

Yes, but still viable, particularly with the fast chargers when
there are enough of them so there are always some free.

>> But that energy is much easier to produce now with
>> nukes and we have the distribution system that allows
>> it to be moved to where it is needed much more easily
>> than we have ever had before and we can move much
>> more comfortably when just horses and grass was the
>> energy source.

> Carter destroyed the civilian nuclear power industry in the United
> States by banning the commercial reprocessing of spent fuel.

Nothing to stop that being reversed if the fuel for ICEs is no
longer available and the alternative is no private cars anymore.

> Reagan undid that, but NOBODY is going to even TRY to
> restart such reprocessing when a president can flush a costly
> investment down the toilet with the stroke of a pen.

But no prez would be that stupid if the fuel for ICEs is no longer
available and the alternative is no private cars anymore.

> Oh, and Biden just did the same to the oil and natural gas industry.

Bullshit he did, it still moves by train and the existing pipelines.

>>>> The networks necessary to deliver that can be gated
>>>> off to you at any time by corporate or government
>>>> interests, and if they are you're ****ed.

>> Nope, you can still generate your own if they do that.

> Using what? Unicorn shit?

The fuel you chose to store so you still have electricity
when it is unavailable for a week or two.

>>>> If something goes wrong on your journey, delaying
>>>> you and increasing that consumption -- you're ****ed.

>> Just as true when the weather fucks what you want to do.

> With an ICE, rarely to the point of leaving you totally stranded.

Just as true of a EV in the USA that you
were mindlessly hyperventilating about.

Rod Speed

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Mar 8, 2021, 10:56:48 PMMar 8
to


"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:080320212202271189%nos...@nospam.invalid...
That's bullshit when you have to do it every night instead of once a week or
two.

Alan Baker

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Mar 8, 2021, 11:09:04 PMMar 8
to
Every night (pretty much every night), my car is parked in the same spot
for something like 12 hours.

It would be no hassle at all to step out of it when I park and plug a
charging plug into it.

The Real Bev

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Mar 8, 2021, 11:32:47 PMMar 8
to
People's needs differ. If we can't say "Hey, let's go visit Sandy in
Houston for a couple of days tomorrow..." and actually do it, we've lost
something. Or Sequoia NP as a day trip from Los Angeles. Or going
skiing in Brian Head TOMORROW.

Some people live in apartment houses and take the train wherever they
want to go. I suppose there are worse lives, but I wouldn't choose any
of them.

We're a prosperous first-world country. We have choices. Giving them
up without a fight is shameful.

--
Cheers, Bev
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.

Matt Singer

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Mar 8, 2021, 11:44:17 PMMar 8
to
I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going to be
simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.

I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting the
impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.

nospam

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Mar 8, 2021, 11:49:26 PMMar 8
to
In article <s26tpd$hvr$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> People's needs differ. If we can't say "Hey, let's go visit Sandy in
> Houston for a couple of days tomorrow..." and actually do it, we've lost
> something. Or Sequoia NP as a day trip from Los Angeles. Or going
> skiing in Brian Head TOMORROW.

how often do you actually do that?

and you can still do that with an electric vehicle.

> Some people live in apartment houses and take the train wherever they
> want to go. I suppose there are worse lives, but I wouldn't choose any
> of them.

those people don't need a car.

they can always call an uber if the train doesn't go where they need to
go.

The Real Bev

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Mar 9, 2021, 12:45:26 AMMar 9
to
On 03/08/2021 08:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going to be
> simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.

I really liked driving stick... until I broke some ribs and operating
the clutch really hurt. Still, if reliability weren't an issue I'd snap
up a Honda S2000.

> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting the
> impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.

You used to be able to recognize the make, model and maybe even the year
of a car when it was 1/4 mile away. Hasn't been like that for a long time.

Hubby walked all over the parking lot looking for me in the white
Corolla and eventually gave up and walked home. He walked right by me.
Now when I come to pick him up I put a ski boot on top of the car.
Not sure what I'll use in April...

--
Cheers, Bev
You need only three tools: WD-40, duct tape and a hammer. If it doesn't
move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.
If you can't fix it with a hammer you've got an electrical problem.


Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 12:58:30 AMMar 9
to


"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
news:s26scu$rdm$1...@dont-email.me...
Mine is parked for much longer than that, always in the same place.

> It would be no hassle at all to step out of it when I park and plug a
> charging plug into it.

It would be more hassle doing that every night
than filling it with gas every couple of weeks.
particularly as mine is parked under the trees
outside the house next to the public park/walkway
on that side of the house with no fence at all.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 1:01:18 AMMar 9
to
Matt Singer <out.o...@wyebur.con> wrote
Because they were a lot more convenient in lots of ways.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 1:07:20 AMMar 9
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote

>> People's needs differ. If we can't say "Hey, let's go visit Sandy
>> in Houston for a couple of days tomorrow..." and actually do
>> it, we've lost something. Or Sequoia NP as a day trip from
>> Los Angeles. Or going skiing in Brian Head TOMORROW.

> how often do you actually do that?

I do that sort of trip most months.

> and you can still do that with an electric vehicle.

But not as conveniently given that I normally
leave very early, to arrive at 8am or earlier,
and only need one quick fill or two of gas.

I never stop to eat etc, at most eat an apple by the side
of the road when I stop to piss by the side of the road.

>> Some people live in apartment houses and take the
>> train wherever they want to go. I suppose there are
>> worse lives, but I wouldn't choose any of them.

Me neither.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 1:09:26 AMMar 9
to


"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s2721k$t9a$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 03/08/2021 08:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going
>> to be
>> simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>
> I really liked driving stick... until I broke some ribs and operating the
> clutch really hurt. Still, if reliability weren't an issue I'd snap up a
> Honda S2000.
>
>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting
>> the
>> impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.
>
> You used to be able to recognize the make, model and maybe even the year
> of a car when it was 1/4 mile away. Hasn't been like that for a long
> time.
>
> Hubby walked all over the parking lot looking for me in the white Corolla
> and eventually gave up and walked home. He walked right by me.

That’s why I got a bright yellow car, easy to find in big car parks.

> Now when I come to pick him up I put a ski boot on top of the car.

That doesn’t work when you need to find your own car in a car park.

Alan Baker

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Mar 9, 2021, 1:10:00 AMMar 9
to
Not really. And given that I'd save a lot of money over filling up with
gas, I think I could put up with it.

Michael Trew

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Mar 9, 2021, 1:42:23 AMMar 9
to
On 3/7/2021 10:02 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
> Goodbye Personal Mobility
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=241716
>
>> This is a fairly typical "car review" coming from an online rag that,
>> no surprise, writes car reviews.
>>
>> Buried in all of the prose, as is always the case, is the slam: Personal
>> mobility is ending in the United States. 100 years of the ability to go
>> where you want, when you want, literally anywhere within the confines of
>> Continental United States for any lawful purpose or no purpose at all is
>> ending. It will become more and more difficult to maintain over the
>> next 10 years and become effectively impossible within 20 to 30 years
>> for people of ordinary means.
>>
>> This is literally the end of America going all the way back to the
>> Founders.
>>
>> You see a horse needed something to eat and water to drink. An EV needs
>> electricity; highly-refined energy at the highest commonly-used form,
>> and it needs it in size. The networks necessary to deliver that can be
>> gated off to you at any time by corporate or government interests, and
>> if they are you're ****ed. If something goes wrong on your journey,
>> delaying you and increasing that consumption -- you're ****ed.
>>
>> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even the most-
>> expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles. The non-return range can
>> be around 300, but that doesn't matter when you get down to it because
>> it presumes charging at a rational rate is available at the other end --
>> or wherever you wind up. It sounds like 30 minutes of charging time for
>> a "top off" isn't so bad and it isn't when there is one vehicle that
>> wants to be charged in a given place. Now pull into a Pilot or Love's
>> on any day, on any highway and count the number of cars that pull to the
>> pump in a 30 minute period. Only one of those vehicles for each pump
>> fills if its electric.
>>
>> The rest are stranded.
>

I have no interest in electric vehicles. I'll be a bitter hold out
until the point that it's difficult to find gasoline. I already drive
30 year old cars as it is. I regularly make multiple-annual 14 hour one
way road trips... no way I could do that in a clunky electric vehicle.
Keep a gas can in the car in case you run out. Stranded on the road
with a dead electric battery? Lol - good luck "bump starting" your way
out of that one like I can do with my '93 Metro - so as long as I have
fuel.

Siri Cruise

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Mar 9, 2021, 2:58:26 AMMar 9
to
In article <s26j6q$fs9$1...@neodome.net>,
Voice of REASON <rea...@anon.net> wrote:

> Carter destroyed the civilian nuclear power industry in the United

Not Price-Anderson?

In US law the risk of nuclear catastrophe are incalculatable.
Therefore Congress limitted how much insurers would have to pay
out. Presumably Congress would make up the difference with
disaster relief, but Congress doesn't promise that.

I would have more confidence if generators were insured for all
damages without Congress stepping in.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

Chris

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Mar 9, 2021, 3:30:11 AMMar 9
to
No country has the right to screw up the world for everyone else. We only
have one planet and no one has the right to selfishly use it for their own
preference.

We all have to make changes so that life can be sustained at somewhat
acceptable levels for all of us. Yes, that does mean that the most selfish
will see the biggest changes.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 4:15:54 AMMar 9
to


"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
news:s273fn$le0$1...@dont-email.me...
Corse it is.

> And given that I'd save a lot of money over filling up with gas,

But pay a lot more for the car, stupid.

> I think I could put up with it.

Different issue entirely.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 4:21:23 AMMar 9
to


"Chris" <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s27bmh$f5u$1...@dont-email.me...
The world isnt being screwed up and that one did invent nukes, stupid.

> We only have one planet and no one has the
> right to selfishly use it for their own preference.

Even the USA isnt doing that.

> We all have to make changes so that life can be
> sustained at somewhat acceptable levels for all of us.

Bullshit we do.

> Yes, that does mean that the most selfish will see the biggest changes.

More mindless bullshit.

NoBody

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Mar 9, 2021, 7:06:28 AMMar 9
to
And where is the electricity to charge it going to come from? Our
grid is already overloaded.

NoBody

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Mar 9, 2021, 7:23:18 AMMar 9
to
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:44:13 -0800, Matt Singer <out.o...@wyebur.con>
wrote:
Right after we figure out how to generate enough electricity to power
these things and stop poisoning the environment with defective
batteries.

Chris

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Mar 9, 2021, 8:08:12 AMMar 9
to
Your grid may be (I'm assuming US), but most are not. If you are in the US
you can thank poor regulation and profits over customers/service
requirements.

Liberals are VERMIN

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 8:29:23 AMMar 9
to
Rod Speed wrote
How about showing some innovation and supporting the coal industry at the
same time, coal powered cars are the future.


They used to do it with locomotives before liberals, seeking to destroy the
lives of coal miners, brought in diesel fuel with new fancy techonology.
They're trying it again with electric cars.





Matt Singer

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Mar 9, 2021, 9:59:15 AMMar 9
to
On 3/9/2021 4:23 AM, NoBody wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:44:13 -0800, Matt Singer <out.o...@wyebur.con>
> wrote:
>
>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going to be
>> simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>
>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting the
>> impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.
>
> Right after we figure out how to generate enough electricity to power
> these things

That part is easy.

> and stop poisoning the environment with defective
> batteries.

A bit more complicated, but not an insoluble problem.

sms

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:04:25 AMMar 9
to
On 3/8/2021 7:19 PM, Jonathan wrote:

<snip>

> Have you ever driven a hybrid?  They not only get great
> mileage, but you don't need to plug them in, and
> when stepping on the gas the gas engine and electric
> motor add to each other's hp and they ...scream.

Exactly. An I4 hybrid gives you the acceleration of a V6 but with much
better MPG than either the I4 or the V6. That's if it doesn't use the
gasoline engine just as a generator, but directly drives the wheels with
both the gasoline engine and the electric motor.

sms

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:15:52 AMMar 9
to
On 3/8/2021 8:32 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> People's needs differ.  If we can't say "Hey, let's go visit Sandy in
> Houston for a couple of days tomorrow..." and actually do it, we've lost
> something.  Or Sequoia NP as a day trip from Los Angeles.  Or going
> skiing in Brian Head TOMORROW.

Surprisingly, there are a lot of Teslas with California license plates
parked at ski areas in Nevada. Never thought I'd see that, but the the
proliferation of super-chargers it's not all that difficult to take
longer trips if you plan accordingly.

> Some people live in apartment houses and take the train wherever they
> want to go.  I suppose there are worse lives, but I wouldn't choose any
> of them.

If you look at car ownership in dense U.S. cities it's clear that even
that people that live in apartments, and take mass transit to work,
still own cars.

sms

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 10:21:12 AMMar 9
to
With far fewer components, electric cars are going to be less expensive
as well. Right now we're seeing electric vehicle companies trying to
recover their development and tooling costs through higher prices but
that's not going to be the case long-term. See
<https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/energy/article/22017905/electric-cars-soon-will-cost-less-than-gasoline-autos-research-shows>.

sms

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:28:38 AMMar 9
to
On 3/8/2021 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> You used to be able to recognize the make, model and maybe even the year
> of a car when it was 1/4 mile away.  Hasn't been like that for a long time.
>
> Hubby walked all over the parking lot looking for me in the white
> Corolla and eventually gave up and walked home.  He walked right by me.
>  Now when I come to pick him up I put a ski boot on top of the car. Not
> sure what I'll use in April...

The similarity of cars, and so many Toyotas caused a scary incident at a
Publix supermarket store in Florida a couple of years ago. Thankfully it
ended without anyone getting hurt.

An elderly resident finished her shopping at Publix and was returning to
her vehicle, a white 2009 Toyota Camry. Approaching the vehicle she
witnessed four males inside the vehicle and beginning to back out of the
parking space. She put her shopping cart behind the vehicle and pulled a
gun from her purse and screamed at them, "I have a gun, and I know how
to use it! GET OUT OF THE CAR!"

The four men exited the vehicle and ran.

The resident loaded her shopping bags into the back seat of the car and
got in, but was unable to start the vehicle. Finally she realized that
she was not in her own car, and that her car was parked two spaces down,
in the same row. She loaded her bags into her own car, drove home, and
telephoned the police to report her mistake. The captain began laughing
hysterically, and informed her that there was an officer in the Publix
parking lot taking a report of an armed carjacking from four men, who
had described her perfectly, 75-80 years old, five feet tall, glasses,
white hair and carrying a gun. The four men agreed not to press charges.


News

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 10:42:40 AMMar 9
to
On 3/8/2021 5:54 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 03/08/2021 10:12 AM, Byker wrote:
>> "Voice of REASON"  wrote in message news:s2443f$2kgc$1...@neodome.net...
>>>
>>> The guaranteed-return range of basically every EV, even the most-
>>> expensive and expansive, is about 100 miles.  The non-return range can
>>> be around 300, but that doesn't matter when you get down to it because
>>> it presumes charging at a rational rate is available at the other end --
>>> or wherever you wind up. It sounds like 30 minutes of charging time for
>>> a "top off" isn't so bad and it isn't when there is one vehicle that
>>> wants to be charged in a given place.  Now pull into a Pilot or Love's
>>> on any day, on any highway and count the number of cars that pull to the
>>> pump in a 30 minute period. Only one of those vehicles for each pump
>>> fills if its electric.
>>>
>>> The rest are stranded.
>>
>> Why you'll see so few "fast" charging stations:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLcqJ2DclEg
>
> Got an executive summary of 100 words or fewer?  Videos are rarely worth
> the time required to watch them.
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Why+evs+are+not+catching+on
>


This guy makes a fundamental error on charge (fueling) infrastructure.

It's not governments' role to provide or build charging stations, much
as it is not governments' role to provide or build gas stations
(gasoline, or natural gas, or hydrogen).

That the EU chose to do so is not relevant globally.

Chris

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:48:50 AMMar 9
to
Sure. It's the scary "liberals" fault. LOL!

Chris

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:53:50 AMMar 9
to
Both of which are non-issues.

Alan Baker

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:57:26 AMMar 9
to
Nope.

>
>> And given that I'd save a lot of money over filling up with gas,
>
> But pay a lot more for the car, stupid.

But getting less expensive all the time.

>
>> I think I could put up with it.
>
> Different issue entirely.

But it offers a benefit:

Every day, you begin with a car at full range.

Matt Singer

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 10:57:32 AMMar 9
to
Electric cars will be more convenient than fossil fuel powered cars, too.

Alan Baker

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:58:12 AMMar 9
to
Change is going to come, isn't it?

Alan Baker

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:58:35 AMMar 9
to
Batteries are one of the easiest things to recycle.

nospam

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Mar 9, 2021, 10:59:59 AMMar 9
to
In article <s283f6$oq0$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Some people live in apartment houses and take the train wherever they
> > want to go.  I suppose there are worse lives, but I wouldn't choose any
> > of them.
>
> If you look at car ownership in dense U.S. cities it's clear that even
> that people that live in apartments, and take mass transit to work,
> still own cars.

some might, however, a significant number do not own cars because mass
transit works well, with uber/lyft for places mass transit does not go
or when it does not run.

Matt Singer

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:05:53 AMMar 9
to
On 3/8/2021 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 03/08/2021 08:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going to be
>> simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>
> I really liked driving stick... until I broke some ribs and operating the clutch
> really hurt.  Still, if reliability weren't an issue I'd snap up a Honda S2000.

I have exclusively owned manual transmission cars since the early 1970s. My
first two heaps as a young driver were automatics because they were affordable
and available, but once I had a little more choice in selecting a car, I went
with the manual and never left.

>
>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting the
>> impending loss of horse drawn carriages.  They got used to it.
>
> You used to be able to recognize the make, model and maybe even the year of a
> car when it was 1/4 mile away.  Hasn't been like that for a long time.

I don't know about recognizing as much detail as you say, but you definitely had
some idea. In particular, I remember Chrysler products in the 1960s and 1970s
having a very distinctive starter motor sound; unmistakable.

>
> Hubby walked all over the parking lot looking for me in the white Corolla and
> eventually gave up and walked home.  He walked right by me.  Now when I come to
> pick him up I put a ski boot on top of the car. Not sure what I'll use in April...
>

You could put a jello salad or a goldfish bowl, as in that Allstate ad. The
apartment house at the end of that ad is in a district of Los Angeles called
Eagle Rock. I grew up in the adjoining city of Glendale.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 11:07:35 AMMar 9
to
Liberals are VERMIN <rande...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Matt Singer <out.o...@wyebur.con> wrote

>>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon
>>> going to be simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.

>>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting
>>> the impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.

>> Because they were a lot more convenient in lots of ways.

> How about showing some innovation and
> supporting the coal industry at the same time,

We do, but nukes make a lot more sense for most countrys.

> coal powered cars are the future.

No chance.

> They used to do it with locomotives

And then we noticed that diesel and electric
powered locos work a hell of a lot better.

> before liberals, seeking to destroy the lives of coal miners,
> brought in diesel fuel with new fancy techonology.

Because that works a hell of a lot better than coal.

And it wasn’t liberals, it was the industry that noticed that.

And then moved on to electric powered
locos for all but some long haul trains.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:16:16 AMMar 9
to


"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:s283p6$ut2$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 3/8/2021 8:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going
>> to be simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>
>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting
>> the impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.

> With far fewer components, electric cars are going to be less expensive as
> well.

Nope, because of the rather more expensive batterys required.

> Right now we're seeing electric vehicle companies trying to recover their
> development and tooling costs through higher prices

Bullshit.

> but that's not going to be the case long-term.

But the high cost of batterys is.

> See
> <https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/energy/article/22017905/electric-cars-soon-will-cost-less-than-gasoline-autos-research-shows>.

Just because some fool claims something...

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:21:44 AMMar 9
to


"Alan Baker" <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote in message
news:s285t4$2kc$1...@dont-email.me...
Yep.

>>> And given that I'd save a lot of money over filling up with gas,
>>
>> But pay a lot more for the car, stupid.
>
> But getting less expensive all the time.

But always considerably more expensive than an ICE.

>>> I think I could put up with it.
>>
>> Different issue entirely.
>
> But it offers a benefit:
>
> Every day, you begin with a car at full range.

And get to fart around with much longer refilling on longer trips.

Matt Singer

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:22:12 AMMar 9
to
Maybe not non-issues altogether, but definitely not show-stoppers.

Rod Speed

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Mar 9, 2021, 11:22:57 AMMar 9
to


"Matt Singer" <out.o...@wyebur.con> wrote in message
news:KVM1I.14030$Zl1....@fx16.iad...
Bullshit when you have to plug them in every night, and have
to fart around with much slower refilling on longer trips.

Terry Runyon

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:39:27 AMMar 9
to
On 3/9/2021 8:15 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:s283p6$ut2$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 3/8/2021 8:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon going to
>>> be simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>>
>>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting the
>>> impending loss of horse drawn carriages.  They got used to it.
>
>> With far fewer components, electric cars are going to be less expensive as well.
>
> Nope, because of the rather more expensive batterys required.

Wrong. Battery cost is falling all the time.

>
>> Right now we're seeing electric vehicle companies trying to recover their
>> development and tooling costs through higher prices
>
> Bullshit.

Nope.

>
>> but that's not going to be the case long-term.
>
> But the high cost of batterys is.

Wrong.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:46:53 AMMar 9
to


"Matt Singer" <out.o...@wyebur.con> wrote in message
news:s286cv$30jp$1...@neodome.net...
> On 3/8/2021 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 03/08/2021 08:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon
>>> going to be
>>> simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>
>> I really liked driving stick... until I broke some ribs and operating the
>> clutch really hurt. Still, if reliability weren't an issue I'd snap up a
>> Honda S2000.

> I have exclusively owned manual transmission cars since the early 1970s.

Me too since well before that.

> My first two heaps as a young driver were automatics because they were
> affordable and available,

None of mine were.

> but once I had a little more choice in selecting a car, I went with the
> manual and never left.

I will likely go auto with the next one for the much better
cruise control and convenience around town as a bonus.

Rod Speed

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:50:47 AMMar 9
to


"Terry Runyon" <jacques.idiot.buddy@number.3> wrote in message
news:1xN1I.172158$zY.3...@fx36.iad...
> On 3/9/2021 8:15 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:s283p6$ut2$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 3/8/2021 8:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>>>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon
>>>> going to be simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were lamenting
>>>> the impending loss of horse drawn carriages. They got used to it.
>>
>>> With far fewer components, electric cars are going to be less expensive
>>> as well.
>>
>> Nope, because of the rather more expensive batterys required.
>
> Wrong.

We'll see...

> Battery cost is falling all the time.

But are still much more expensive than ICE cars.

Vastly so if you buy used cars.

>>> Right now we're seeing electric vehicle companies trying to recover
>>> their development and tooling costs through higher prices
>>
>> Bullshit.
>
> Nope.

Yep.

>>> but that's not going to be the case long-term.
>>
>> But the high cost of batterys is.
>
> Wrong.

Yes you always are.

Wade Garrett

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:50:47 AMMar 9
to
On 3/9/21 11:05 AM, Matt Singer wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 03/08/2021 08:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:

<SNIP>
>
> I don't know about recognizing as much detail as you say, but you
> definitely had some idea.  In particular, I remember Chrysler products
> in the 1960s and 1970s having a very distinctive starter motor sound;
> unmistakable.
>
>>
<SNIP>

Oh yeah, I remember that whiny sound in my '73 Dodge Dart slant six...

And as for EVs? Not ready for prime time yet due to the lack of
convenient charging infrastructure.

The other thing I wonder about is where is all that extra electricity
going to come from? Probably not the Energizer Bunny Fairy ;-)

And how much pollution will generating it add given the lack of nuclear
generation facilities...

--
Name one time in human history when the group seeking to ban books and
censor speech were the good guys. I'll wait...

Alan Baker

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:51:49 AMMar 9
to
On 2021-03-09 8:15 a.m., Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:s283p6$ut2$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 3/8/2021 8:44 PM, Matt Singer wrote:
>>> I am going to miss manual transmissions, but electric cars are soon
>>> going to be simply "cars" — what will be available on the market.
>>>
>>> I'm sure when cars first appeared 120+ years ago, people were
>>> lamenting the impending loss of horse drawn carriages.  They got used
>>> to it.
>
>> With far fewer components, electric cars are going to be less
>> expensive as well.
>
> Nope, because of the rather more expensive batterys required.
>
>> Right now we're seeing electric vehicle companies trying to recover
>> their development and tooling costs through higher prices
>
> Bullshit.
>
>> but that's not going to be the case long-term.
>
> But the high cost of batterys is.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34992832/battery-price-drop-2023/

<https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/12/18/ever-cheaper-batteries-bring-cost-of-electric-cars-closer-to-gas-guzzlers/>

<https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-car-battery-pack-prices-outlook/>

Alan Baker

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:52:49 AMMar 9
to
Nope.

>
>>>> And given that I'd save a lot of money over filling up with gas,
>>>
>>> But pay a lot more for the car, stupid.
>>
>> But getting less expensive all the time.
>
> But always considerably more expensive than an ICE.

And that will always be the case will it?

>
>>>> I think I could put up with it.
>>>
>>> Different issue entirely.
>>
>> But it offers a benefit:
>>
>> Every day, you begin with a car at full range.
>
> And get to fart around with much longer refilling on longer trips.

Which for many people are non-existent or nearly so.

Alan Baker

unread,
Mar 9, 2021, 11:54:34 AMMar 9
to
Which for many is easy.

> and have
> to fart around with much slower refilling on longer trips.

Which many people never take.