NYC / Long Island Parkway Lighting
The Maven
Does anyone know the history of the old wooden lamp posts on the
parkways? In some old photos I've seen the original smaller wooden
lamp posts, while in later years the larger ones. I remember when
some parkways had incandescent lighting and some had mercury vapor
lighting both with a bluish tint, some with a greenish tint. Some had
bucket light fixtures and some had cup light fixtures.
As a kid I was so sad to see the old lights replaced. My memory is
mostly of the lighting system on Long Island from the 1980's. At that
time, it appeared that the lighting system was so random.
-Thanks
Ralph Herman
(in article
<2f5021ae-2299-4998...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>):
> Hi-
>
> Does anyone know the history of the old wooden lamp posts on the
> parkways? In some old photos I've seen the original smaller wooden
> lamp posts, while in later years the larger ones.
The western sections of the Southern State, the Northern State and the
causeways to Jones Beach were smaller when they were opened by the LI State
Parks Commission (LISPC). For instance, the western section of the Southern
State to the present Wantagh State was was an undivided roadway (contained on
today's eastbound lanes) with two narrow lanes in each direction, so smaller
lamposts were adequate for the engineering of the day.
I remember when
> some parkways had incandescent lighting and some had mercury vapor
> lighting both with a bluish tint, some with a greenish tint. Some had
> bucket light fixtures and some had cup light fixtures.
The underground cables for the original lighting system was having serious
grounding issues by the 1980s. LILCO was responsible for "maintaining" the
lighting system under the LISPC, and the entire lighting system was failing
routinely and needed to be rebuilt entirely. LISPC had replaced the
lighting with new breakaway metal masts and high pressure sodium on the
Southern State west of the Wantagh before the NYSDOT took over maintenance of
the LI parkways in the early 1980's (LISPC still "owns" all parkway right of
way). The Meadowbrook north of the Southern State and the Northern State
west of the LIE connector (Exit 29A) got mercury vapor lighting when the
LISPC routes were widened in the later park of the 1960's.
NYSDOT allowed downed "woody" lights to be replaced with "temporary" wooden
light masts and metal arms in the 1980's because by that time the original
"woodies" were quite expensive to replace and the new lighting system you see
today was already in the process of being installed, which meets modern
lighting standards... nothing from the original system could be salvaged...
the posts were too close to the curb and were not breakaway, and the
underground electric cables were too shallow and too close to the curb.
>
> As a kid I was so sad to see the old lights replaced. My memory is
> mostly of the lighting system on Long Island from the 1980's. At that
> time, it appeared that the lighting system was so random.
The old "woody" lights were quaint," but they did not meet modern safety
standards. The current lighting is a great compromise in aesthetics, I
personally think they look great. Of course some sections of the parkways
near Jones Beach were declared historic landmarks, so NYSDOT had to go back
to the historic "woody" designs of more than half a century ago, but these
lights have breakaway posts and new hardware and underground wiring.
Ralph
>
> -Thanks
The Maven
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:01:24 -0700, The Maven wrote
> (in article
>
Hi Ralph-
Thanks so much for your insight. You are a wealth of information. I
always enjoy reading your posts. I thought of a couple of other
questions for you, if you don't mind.
> Does anyone know the history of the old wooden lamp posts on the
> parkways? In some old photos I've seen the original smaller wooden
> lamp posts, while in later years the larger ones.
> The western sections of the Southern State, the Northern State and the
> causeways to Jones Beach were smaller when they were opened by the LI State
> Parks Commission (LISPC). For instance, the western section of the Southern
> State to the present Wantagh State was was an undivided roadway (contained on
> today's eastbound lanes) with two narrow lanes in each direction, so smaller
> lamposts were adequate for the engineering of the day.
Did the Northern Parkway east of exit 29A always have the larger
lampposts, even though it has always been a four lane road?
>
> I remember when
>
> > some parkways had incandescent lighting and some had mercury vapor
> > lighting both with a bluish tint, some with a greenish tint. Some had
> > bucket light fixtures and some had cup light fixtures.
>
> The underground cables for the original lighting system was having serious
> grounding issues by the 1980s. LILCO was responsible for "maintaining" the
> lighting system under the LISPC, and the entire lighting system was failing
> routinely and needed to be rebuilt entirely.
Can I assume that originally all lighting was incandescent? Then
eventually one by one, light fixtures changed to mercury vapor? Would
the grounding issues be a reason why some mercury bulbs illuminated
blue and others green? Also could the grounding issue affect the
brightness of each bulb? I remember many bulbs being bright and some
very dim.
> LISPC had replaced the
> lighting with new breakaway metal masts and high pressure sodium on the
> Southern State west of the Wantagh before the NYSDOT took over maintenance of
> the LI parkways in the early 1980's (LISPC still "owns" all parkway right of
> way). The Meadowbrook north of the Southern State and the Northern State
> west of the LIE connector (Exit 29A) got mercury vapor lighting when the
> LISPC routes were widened in the later park of the 1960's.
These mercury bulbs were the only bulbs on the parkway system I
remember that were each the same color and brightness. Could this be
because the wiring was done only 10-15 years prior?
Ralph Herman
(in article
<93af6b9e-06e1-448e...@t2g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>):
> On Aug 11, 4:40 pm, Ralph Herman <rlaher...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:01:24 -0700, The Maven wrote
>> (in article
>> <2f5021ae-2299-4998-a1a3-1a14f54f6...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>
> Hi Ralph-
>
> Thanks so much for your insight. You are a wealth of information. I
> always enjoy reading your posts. I thought of a couple of other
> questions for you, if you don't mind.
Thanks and no problem.
>
>> Does anyone know the history of the old wooden lamp posts on the
>> parkways? In some old photos I've seen the original smaller wooden
>> lamp posts, while in later years the larger ones.
>
>
>> The western sections of the Southern State, the Northern State and the
>> causeways to Jones Beach were smaller when they were opened by the LI State
>> Parks Commission (LISPC). For instance, the western section of the Southern
>> State to the present Wantagh State was was an undivided roadway (contained
>> on
>> today's eastbound lanes) with two narrow lanes in each direction, so
>> smaller
>> lamposts were adequate for the engineering of the day.
>
> Did the Northern Parkway east of exit 29A always have the larger
> lampposts, even though it has always been a four lane road?
My memory kicks in about 1959-60 when I was about 6 years old, the
eight lane section between exits 29A and 31A was always 8 lanes for me,
which I assume was done around the same time the LIE was built out to
Glen Cove Road/Exit 39.
East of exit 31A was the median gas station... and when the right of
way narrowed, the large twin armed woodies were on the median to about
exit 34... east of there the woodies switched to the right shoulders.
>
>>
>> I remember when
>>
>>> some parkways had incandescent lighting and some had mercury vapor
>>> lighting both with a bluish tint, some with a greenish tint. Some had
>>> bucket light fixtures and some had cup light fixtures.
>>
>> The underground cables for the original lighting system was having serious
>> grounding issues by the 1980s. LILCO was responsible for "maintaining" the
>> lighting system under the LISPC, and the entire lighting system was failing
>> routinely and needed to be rebuilt entirely.
>
> Can I assume that originally all lighting was incandescent? Then
> eventually one by one, light fixtures changed to mercury vapor? Would
> the grounding issues be a reason why some mercury bulbs illuminated
> blue and others green? Also could the grounding issue affect the
> brightness of each bulb? I remember many bulbs being bright and some
> very dim.
In the early 1980's, downed masts were replaced with the same lighting
elements, but as time went on, LILCO started using mercury, then sodium
for all woody replacements. No real pattern, almost seemed like
whatever was on the back of the truck at the time was used in any spot.
Grounding was a very serious problem (when the ground was wet,
sometimes the light did not operate), but also a lot of the luminaire
lenses needed serious cleaning! Newsday often had letters to the
editor from residents complaining about the lighting intensity and
disrepair, and the answer from LILCO always was that they could not
fix the lighting unless the underground cables were replaced (a huge
expense). Sometimes LILCO would do a Con Ed and string temporary
overhead cables between masts to keep the system working. It was a
total mess, as was the signage at the time.
>
>> LISPC had replaced the
>> lighting with new breakaway metal masts and high pressure sodium on the
>> Southern State west of the Wantagh before the NYSDOT took over maintenance
>> of
>> the LI parkways in the early 1980's (LISPC still "owns" all parkway right of
>> way). The Meadowbrook north of the Southern State and the Northern State
>> west of the LIE connector (Exit 29A) got mercury vapor lighting when the
>> LISPC routes were widened in the later park of the 1960's.
>
> These mercury bulbs were the only bulbs on the parkway system I
> remember that were each the same color and brightness. Could this be
> because the wiring was done only 10-15 years prior?
Yes, the Northern west of 29A had good electrical supply, since it was
installed in the mid 1960's widening. The Meadowbrook's lighting was
recent in LISPC terms, and when the lanes were added to the median
north of the Southern State around 1970, the existing incandescent was
converted to mercury vapor with the addition of small electrical
transformers placed where the mast and the arm were attached, the only
LISPC roadway lighting converted this way.
Ralph Herman
(in article <0001HW.C888B3E6...@news.west.earthlink.net>):
I almost forgot....in the 1980's NYSDOT replaced the lighting on the Wantagh
north of the Southern State with modern brown steel masts/trombone arms with
high sodium bucket luminaires.. but only at the interchanges (per NYS Highway
Design Manual), a dramatic departure for the LI parkways, which were always
lighted in their entirety. There was an outcry form the local populace, and
NYSDOT was forced on future lighting projects to provide continuous lighting
on any former LISPC facility where it existed before. NYSDOT I believe must
continue to eat the LIPA power bill on the pkwys, but was allowed to bill the
local villages and towns along the LIE when the lights were installed in the
1980s.
Jimmy
> LISPC had replaced the
> lighting with new breakaway metal masts and high pressure sodium on the
> Southern State west of the Wantagh before the NYSDOT took over maintenance of
> the LI parkways in the early 1980's (LISPC still "owns" all parkway right of
> way).
Are you sure LISPC still exists? http://www.nycroads.com/history/parkway/
, which is a document written by NYSDOT and the Museums at Stony
Brook, says the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and
Historic Preservation has owned the parkway land since 1977.
Does NYSOPR&HP's (or LISPC's) ownership of the parkway ROWs have any
practical effects today?
Jimmy
The Maven
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:42:38 -0700, The Maven wrote
> (in article
Ralph, would you recall if what I remember is correct? I can kind of
remember when riding on the Northern State east of Exit 31 in the
1980's, every couple of lampposts or so had a green mercury bulb that
could be spotted. Would you recall if this was due to the poor wiring
by that time? Or were these just older bulbs that started to fail?
>
> >> LISPC had replaced the
> >> lighting with new breakaway metal masts and high pressure sodium on the
> >> Southern State west of the Wantagh before the NYSDOT took over maintenance
> >> of
> >> the LI parkways in the early 1980's (LISPC still "owns" all parkway right of
> >> way). The Meadowbrook north of the Southern State and the Northern State
> >> west of the LIE connector (Exit 29A) got mercury vapor lighting when the
> >> LISPC routes were widened in the later park of the 1960's.
When the Southern State was widened in the early 1960's, I guess LISPC
stayed with incandescent bulbs?
> > These mercury bulbs were the only bulbs on the parkway system I
> > remember that were each the same color and brightness. Could this be
> > because the wiring was done only 10-15 years prior?
>
> Yes, the Northern west of 29A had good electrical supply, since it was
> installed in the mid 1960's widening. The Meadowbrook's lighting was
> recent in LISPC terms, and when the lanes were added to the median
> north of the Southern State around 1970, the existing incandescent was
> converted to mercury vapor with the addition of small electrical
> transformers placed where the mast and the arm were attached, the only
> LISPC roadway lighting converted this way.
A question regarding the transformers. Was there a method used by
LISPC when converting old incandescent bulbs with the mercury
replacements on the other parkways?
> >> NYSDOT allowed downed "woody" lights to be replaced with "temporary" wooden
> >> light masts and metal arms in the 1980's because by that time the original
> >> "woodies" were quite expensive to replace and the new lighting system you
> >> see
> >> today was already in the process of being installed, which meets modern
> >> lighting standards... nothing from the original system could be salvaged...
> >>
> >> the posts were too close to the curb and were not breakaway, and the
> >> underground electric cables were too shallow and too close to the curb.
>
> >>> As a kid I was so sad to see the old lights replaced. My memory is
> >>> mostly of the lighting system on Long Island from the 1980's. At that
> >>> time, it appeared that the lighting system was so random.
>
> >> The old "woody" lights were quaint," but they did not meet modern safety
> >> standards. The current lighting is a great compromise in aesthetics, I
> >> personally think they look great. Of course some sections of the parkways
> >> near Jones Beach were declared historic landmarks, so NYSDOT had to go back
> >> to the historic "woody" designs of more than half a century ago, but these
> >> lights have breakaway posts and new hardware and underground wiring.
>
> >> Ralph
>
> >>> -Thanks
Thanks again.
Ralph Herman
(in article
<02e5b0c3-ffe6-4449...@w17g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>):
You are correct, sir.
A late night brain fart. I should have remembered that.
Thanks for catching that, Jimmy !