SE Asia railway revived
David Bromage
be revived by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. A feasibility
study commissioned by the group identified the 3,400 mile (5,500
kilometres) route starting in Singapore and running through Malaysia,
Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam before ending in the city of Kunming in
southern China, with additional lines to Myanmar and Laos. The idea was
originally proposed by British and French colonialists in 1900 following
the completion of the Trans-Siberian railway.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_1637000/1637032.stm
Comment:
I guess the Trans Asia Railway via India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran
is pretty much dead in the water followng recent events. This would have
cut freight transit times from Singapore to Europe from 60 days (sea) to
12 days (rail). How much longer would it take via China and Russia?
Windy Winston Khong
hmmmmmm...problem: te guage between Singapore and the thai border is
narrow guage. not too ure of the gauge between there and beijing, but
i know that the railways o china definitely aren't narrow guage. at
the same time, the crossings of jungle, and relatively steep grades is
an engineering challenge. there isn't enough room for spirals, and
16-chain curves would be difficult, in either following the spur
lines, or climbing the grades. still, if there's a will, there's a
way. good to see some action happening, though. a sign that china is
quite serious about opening up itself to the world.
Windy.K. 2001.
Roderick Smith
now.
Toss in 3 nights for Singapore - Saigon. (IIRC, the renaming to Ho Chi
Minh City has not caught on well locally).
Windy worries about construction difficulty: these bits have been done
already.
The only gap is Phnom Penh - Saigon, only a few hundred km, but involving a
major river crossing.
This would give a continuous metre gauge route to Kunming, connecting with
sg to the Kazakhstan border, connecting with Russian gauge through
Kazakhstan and into Russia.
--
Regards
Roderick Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
David Bennetts
"Windy Winston Khong" <wk_1205...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >
hmmmmmm...problem: te guage between Singapore and the thai border is
> narrow guage. not too ure of the gauge between there and beijing, but
> i know that the railways o china definitely aren't narrow guage. at
> the same time, the crossings of jungle, and relatively steep grades is
> an engineering challenge. there isn't enough room for spirals, and
> 16-chain curves would be difficult, in either following the spur
> lines, or climbing the grades. still, if there's a will, there's a
> way. good to see some action happening, though. a sign that china is
> quite serious about opening up itself to the world.
>
> Windy.K. 2001.
Thai railways are of the same gauge as those of Malaysia - ie metre gauge.
Regards
David Bennetts
William Pearce
Connection into Burma might require the re-building of the notorious
Thailand-Burma Railway of WW II.
Regards,
Bill.
"David Bennetts" <davi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LQDF7.4981$w61.2...@ozemail.com.au...
R.C.
Windy Winston Khong wrote:
Gauges: Metre from Singapore to N. Thailand, also meter gauge in Cambodia and Vietnam and from
Hanoi to Kunming, I don't think Laos has rail at present (rail through Laos is only one option)
then standard gauge from Kunming to all over China and Russia-Mongolia border near Irkutsk
RC
The Safety Valve
<Gauges: Metre from Singapore to N. Thailand, also meter gauge in Cambodia
and Vietnam and from
Hanoi to Kunming, I don't think Laos has rail at present (rail through Laos
is only one option)
then standard gauge from Kunming to all over China and Russia-Mongolia
border near Irkutsk>
Have a look here...
http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/malay02.htm
Regards,
The 'Valve
"R.C." <"s.p,a.m-lessrichy_ch_2000"@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3BE7BDD3...@yahoo.com...
Helmut Uttenthaler
"Roderick Smith" <rods...@werple.net.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:01c1663b$7c97a0a0$0a8d17d2@rodsmith...
> The journey Saigon - Moskva by passenger train is about 11 nights right
> now.
Timetable (According to Thomas Cook; May 2000):
Moskva Jaoroslavskaja dep. 2340 Fr
Beijing arr. 0530 Fr
Beijing dep. 1051 Fr
Dong Dang arr. 0330 Su
Dong Dang dep. 0600 Su
Ha Noi arr. 1130 Su
Ha Noi dep. 1400 Su
Sai Gon arr. 0645 Tu
--
Regards,
Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Austria
Robert Lee
are metre-gauge. China is standard gauge with a few exceptions, the most
important for this discussion being the old French line from the Vietnamese
border at Laocai to Kunming. The line, the former Chemin de fer de
l'Indo-Chine et du Yunnan, is metre-gauge and surprisingly busy when I was
last in Kunming last year.
It is true that the only gap is Phnom Phen to Saigon, but a good river route
exists here and an adequate road. I suspect that part of the aim is the
integration of Laos more fully into ASEAN, not to mention facilitating the
exploitation of its natural resources by Thai generals, friends of PM Taksin
and other assorted well-meaning and altruistic friends of the Lao people.
(sorry if I'm laying on the sarcasm a bit thick here)
A route through Laos will not be easy, although the bridge from Nong Khai
(in THailand) across the Mekong to Vientiane already exists and has
provision for a single rail track. But if Laos is hard, then the climb
parallel to the Mekong up onto the Yunnan plateau will be the ral challenge.
Exactly 100 years ago a (British) Govt of India surveyor described such a
route as entailing a series of tunnels like Mt Cenis and bridges like the
Menai Straits. Do you get the general idea? The engineering on the CFIY is
utterly spectacular, and inlcudes the highest railway bridge in the world,
and it takes the EASIEST route up to Yunnan. THe British abandoned their
attempt to build a line from Burma into Yunnan at Lashio, before it even
reached the Irrawaddy, which forms the border. THat line includes the
world's SECOMD highest bridge.
My opinion is that probably a line will be built into Laos, since there's
likely to be money in it for someone, but I can't see the ascent into Yunnan
happening in a hurry. More likely would be a link from Laos to connect with
the Hanoi-Saigin line (the former CF Trans-Indo-Chinois) somewhere near Vinh
or Danang. That would still be a challenge, but much shorter and also makes
more economic sense, connecting the wealthiest parts of Laos (ha!! - there's
an oxymoron!!) with their nearest ports.
Helmut Uttenthaler
"R.C." <"s.p,a.m-lessrichy_ch_2000"@yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3BE7BDD3...@yahoo.com...
> Gauges: Metre from Singapore to N. Thailand, also meter gauge in Cambodia
and Vietnam and from
> Hanoi to Kunming, I don't think Laos has rail at present (rail through
Laos is only one option)
> then standard gauge from Kunming to all over China and Russia-Mongolia
border near Irkutsk
>
Railways in Mongolia use broad gauge (1524 mm). The wheelsets of
international passenger trains are changed in Erlian, the first/last station
in China.
James Robinson
Thanks for posting your take on the development of the new railway. It
forced me to pull out my atlas to trace the potential routes and look at
the terrain. It was a good summary of the challenges the builders will
see.
> ... The engineering on the CFIY is utterly spectacular, and
> inlcudes the highest railway bridge in the world, ... THe British
> abandoned their attempt to build a line from Burma into Yunnan at
> Lashio, ... THat line includes the world's SECOMD highest bridge.
Just a small comment, which doesn't take away from the general points
you made. These bridges are the highest and second highest in Asia at
102 and 98 meters high respectively. The highest railway bridge in the
world is generally recognised as the Fades Viaduct in France, which is
133 meters high, followed by the bridge at Victoria Falls at 128
meters. These heights are presumably based on the height of the tallest
pier, so it is possible that a height measured above the water being
spanned may result in a different ordering of the bridges.
Other high bridges include the Garabit and Viaur Viaducts in France at
123 and 116 meters, the Loa Viaduct in Bolivia at 102 meters, and the
Pecos River Bridge in the USA at 98 meters.
Auckland_Boy
to the worlds tallest bridges? It's 97 metres high and is on the
Napier-Gisborne line in the North Island. Is it in the top 10 ???
James Robinson
>
> Where do these figures place the Mohaka Viaduct in New Zealand with regards
> to the worlds tallest bridges? It's 97 metres high and is on the
> Napier-Gisborne line in the North Island. Is it in the top 10 ???
The reference I referred to in my original post on the subject was "Rail
Facts and Feats" by John Marshall (1973). It is, unfortunately,
incomplete in that it only lists the top two in the world at the time,
then lists the highest in each part of the world. There are a number of
bridges in between.
I did a search on Internet, and came up with the following web page with
a more complete list of the bridges of 100 meters and higher. There are
18 of them. One of the bridges, the Garabit Viaduct, is listed at a
different height than in the Marshall book, (112 vs 122 in the book) but
the rest of the bridges included in the book are listed at the same
height on the web page. That suggests that the lists are relatively
consistent.
There seems to be quite a population of bridges around the 100 meter
height, so it is had to say where the Mojaka Viaduct fits in, but it is
likely around the 25th highest in the world.
Note that the highest railway bridge in the world is now listed as the
Mala Rijeka Viaduct, at 198 meters high, on Yugoslav Railways'
Belgrade烹ar line. (assuming it survived the war) It was built in 1976,
or after the Marshall book was published, so it would not have been
listed in that document. There is also the Vresk Viaduct on the Iranian
State Railway that is shown at 152 meters, and is not listed in the
Marshall book for some reason, even though it was built in 1938. Another
high viaduct in Iran was built in 1973 at 131 meters.
James Robinson
>
> I did a search on Internet, and came up with the following web page with
> a more complete list of the bridges of 100 meters and higher.
Oops, how embarrassing, I forgot to include the link:
http://ebooks.whsmithonline.co.uk/encyclopedia/86/A0000086.htm
Windy Winston Khong
what about the Forth Road and Rail Bridge, across the Firth of Forth,
in Scotland? or would that be just because of how many girders and
whaterver else which it uses?
oh, and it is dropping bolts and stuff the last time i was in
scotland, but i believe that it is fixed-up now:)
Windy.K. 2001.
James Robinson
>
> what about the Forth Road and Rail Bridge, across the Firth of Forth,
> in Scotland? or would that be just because of how many girders and
> whaterver else which it uses?
It isn't the highest, or the longest. It doesn't even have the longest
span for a cantilever bridge. It is just described as the greatest
railway bridge ever built. This is no doubt because of its especially
impressive, sweeping profile, coupled with a recognition of the immense
engineering challenges the designers overcame for the date it was
completed, 1890.
As comparison with the others, the overall height is 110 meters, and the
railway line is 46 meters above the water.
Roderick Smith
railway, but one from the Chiang Mai line in Thailand.
Marshall is quite incomplete on his platforms section (which I have
checked); I suspect incomplete on bridges (which I haven't checked).
Robert Lee
I've seen these stats too. I always thought it was the Eiffel-built bridge
at Garabit in France which was often cited as the highest. It's just been
painted PINK btw!!
Both the Faux-Namti bridge (to give it its old French name - the Chinese
don't seem to boast about it) and the Gokteik viaduct in Burma are generally
measured from rails to water. The Yunnan bridge has no piers - it was built
between two tunnels, while Gokteik is on piers but the stream flows in a
natural tunnel well below the level of the base of the piers. Defining these
things is always very hard!!!
But the height of these bridges is a minor point - the real one is that the
terrain in those parts - the southern escarpment of the Yunnan plateau -is
really as bad as it gets for railway building.
Johannes Heger
<was...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>listed in that document. There is also the Vresk Viaduct on the Iranian
>State Railway that is shown at 152 meters, and is not listed in the
>Marshall book for some reason, even though it was built in 1938. Another
>high viaduct in Iran was built in 1973 at 131 meters.
This bridge is at Qotur, near the Turkish border, on the line
Tabriz-Razi(-Van) connecting the Iranian railways to the Turkish and
the European network.
best regards
Johannes Heger
visit the unofficial homepage of Iranian Railways
http://www.msedv.com/rai/
Johannes Heger
<dbro...@omni.com.au> wrote:
>Comment:
>I guess the Trans Asia Railway via India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran
>is pretty much dead in the water followng recent events. This would have
>cut freight transit times from Singapore to Europe from 60 days (sea) to
>12 days (rail). How much longer would it take via China and Russia?
The missing gap inside Iran (Kerman-Zahedan) will soon start operation
(within 2002), and there are no major obstacles to start the
international traffic, as Iran-Pakistan relations are still at a
reasonable level, with Zahedan-Quetta international weekly train still
operating for the time being. Treaties concerning international rail
traffic in the region have already been signed by the ECO countries.
(Central Asian countries, Iran, Turkey and Pakistan)
Don't know anything about cross border rail traffic between Pakistan
and India (near Amritsar); the direct passanger trains are suspended,
requiring a change right at the border, but I suppose that freight
traffic is going through. Anybody knows more?
regards,
Ulf Kutzner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boten%E2%80%93Vientiane_railway
Regards, ULF
pH
> Robert Lee schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. November 2001 um 13:22:28 UTC+1:
>> Just for the record, all of continental southeast Asia's mainline raiwlays
>> are metre-gauge. China is standard gauge with a few exceptions, the most
>> important for this discussion being the old French line from the Vietnamese
>> border at Laocai to Kunming. The line, the former Chemin de fer de
>> l'Indo-Chine et du Yunnan, is metre-gauge and surprisingly busy when I was
>> last in Kunming last year.
inches?
pH in Aptos
Yes, I could look it up...it's more fun to keep Usenet active.
Ulf Kutzner
Hm. „Metric gauge may refer to: Metre gauge, a rail gauge [...]“
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_gauge
Given here in feet and inches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre-gauge_railway
Regards, ULF
pH
Thank-you for the info....heretofore I had never heard of meter guage...it
makes perfect sense, though.
Thank-you
pH
Ulf Kutzner
> Ah! Danke fur die auskunft. (Probably all mis-spelled....)
We use a non-ASCII letter in für.
Auskunft as a noun should be capitalised/capitalized (like names of days of the week,
months, languages or adjectives referring to nationality or ethnicity in English).
Regards, ULF
pH
I will need to discover how to call up "umlauts" here....
pH