Re: Getting to Germany Rant
Mizter T
On 12 Jan, 17:41, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [x-posted to misc.transport.rail.europe - original thread
> on uk.railway]
>
Or rather, it is now - my apologies for the unnecessary electronic
disturbances folks.
>
> On 12 Jan, 16:47, "David Thornhill" <s...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > It is little wonder most passengers fly these days.
>
> > (snip specific criticisms of online booking services)
>
> > SUMMARY
>
> > Saving by breaking journey into bite sized chunks is significant, compared
> > to what through ticketing is possible. In Germany especially, there are
> > often huge savings by tweaking system for the DB element, such as starting
> > out a few minutes earlier and having a longer connection in, say, Köln.
>
> > The down side is the staggering number of man hours it takes to fight with
> > the various systems. And because of the SNCB problem above I have come to a
> > dead end and will have to make a special journey tomorrow to the third party
> > and talk her through using her debit card to get the SNCB/DB elements.
>
> > It shouldn't be so difficult.
>
> It's not a response to your issues by any means, but a post from EE507
> (in a thread last week about Eurostars to Brussels) served as a
> reminder that DB's fabulously good value London-Spezial fares are now
> available for journeys *from* London to Cologne and prices start at
> just €49 one way, with first class at €99.
>
> It's an offer intended for the German market, or at least for Germans.
> I say that because it appears that one must book in German - if you
> change the DB booking engine (aka HAFAS) to English the offer
> disappears.
>
> This DB webpage provides some more details plus a link straight into
> the booking system:
> http://www.bahn.de/p/view/angebot/international/london-spezial.shtml
>
> Google's translation tool can help those of us whose German is a
> little ropier than it should or could be:
> http://translate.google.co.uk/translate_t#de|en|
>
> On complicated webpages cutting and pasting the specific text can
> often be a better bet than actually trying to get it to translate the
> whole page - and (obviously) that's the only way you'll get it to work
> on dynamic webpages such as online shops or ticket booking sites.
>
David Thornhill
"Mizter T" <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb4e7fa5-d82a-4e62...@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> It's not a response to your issues by any means, but a post from EE507
> (in a thread last week about Eurostars to Brussels) served as a
> reminder that DB's fabulously good value London-Spezial fares are now
> available for journeys *from* London to Cologne and prices start at
> just €49 one way, with first class at €99.
>
But it is only valid on ICE into Brussels, which to say the least restricts
options a bit.
I've managed to get the fare westbound by having night in Brussels, which
time you pay for hotel hardly works out good value. And if I was going the
slow way, I would probably use my E* ticket from the border and ignoring
ICE/Thalys hassle.
Cannot get Hafas to offer the fare eastbound, although perhaps it does if
you 'frig' around with the system for long enough.
David
EE507
> "Mizter T" <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Are you both looking at journeys after the restoration of the normal
timetable? If so, you will see 'ab €49' appear against the 08:34 and
14:34 from London. Returning, I can't get the system to show London
Spezials on the 08:44 from Cologne on a variety of dates, suggesting a
particular problem with that train.
To force HAFAS to offer afternoon return options, you need to specify
a 20 min wait at Brussels:
Köln Hbf Mo, 16.03.09 ab 14:44 5 E-F ICE 14 Intercity-Express
Bordbistro
Bruxelles-Midi Mo, 16.03.09 an 17:01
Bruxelles-Midi Mo, 16.03.09 ab 17:01 Übergang 24 Min. Check-In
Zeiten beachten
Bruxelles-Midi Eurostar Mo, 16.03.09 an 17:25
Bruxelles-Midi EST Mo, 16.03.09 ab 17:59 EST 9153 EUROSTAR
Reservierungspflicht, Besonderer Fahrschein oder Zuschlag
erforderlich, Check-In Zeiten beachten, Nichtraucherzug, Bistro Cafe
London St. Pancras International Mo, 16.03.09 an 19:03
Friday out, Monday back I'm seeing €98 second class, €198 first class.
Yes, you're restricted to the ICE, but that's no bad thing when the
alternative is a TGV derivative, and one with a tight connection
before E* check in to boot.
Unfortunately it seems DB has copied the hateful SNCF (voyages-
sncf.com) practice of offering different fares under different
languages. I have copied the 'Man in Seat 61' in on this message. So
simply select Deutsch to find the bargains - the best I've seen so far
is London-Dresden (via Berlin or Frankfurt depending on quotas) for
€49 second / €99 first one-way!
As these tickets are priced as singles, you could do first class one-
way. The lack of shopping basket *is* a pain though, meaning 2x
transaction fees (which I avoid by banking with Nationwide) and
postage fees. The DB UK call centre is the only alternative, assuming
you get through and their exchange rate is not a mickey take.
Neil Williams
wrote:
>Unfortunately it seems DB has copied the hateful SNCF (voyages-
>sncf.com) practice of offering different fares under different
>languages.
You sure? It will quite happily offer EUR 49 tickets for next
Thursday on the 0710 in both languages.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
EE507
wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:58:07 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately it seems DB has copied the hateful SNCF (voyages-
> >sncf.com) practice of offering different fares under different
> >languages.
>
> You sure? It will quite happily offer EUR 49 tickets for next
> Thursday on the 0710 in both languages.
>
> Neil
I doubted Mizter T's post too, but I found the same problem for London-
Cologne out 08:34 13 Mar, back 14:44 16 Mar.
Neil Williams
wrote:
>I doubted Mizter T's post too, but I found the same problem for London-
>Cologne out 08:34 13 Mar, back 14:44 16 Mar.
I didn't - it's happy to offer EUR 49 on that in English:
Outward journey Station/Stop Date Time Duration Changes Products
London St. Pancras International
Köln Hbf Fr, 13.03.2009 08:34
14:15 5:41 1 EST, ICE
Your ticket One-Way Ticket, 1 traveller (age: 29 years), 2nd class, St
Pancras Int - Köln
London-Spezial
Valid only on booked train. Exchange and refund charge of EUR 15
before 1st day of validity, no exchanges or refunds as from 1st day of
validity.
Train with reservation obligation included (Fare incl. Res.), Through
reservation not free of charge
49,00 EUR
EE507
wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:24:03 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >I doubted Mizter T's post too, but I found the same problem for London-
> >Cologne out 08:34 13 Mar, back 14:44 16 Mar.
>
> I didn't - it's happy to offer EUR 49 on that in English:
>
> Outward journey Station/Stop Date Time Duration Changes Products
> London St. Pancras International
> Köln Hbf Fr, 13.03.2009 08:34
> 14:15 5:41 1 EST, ICE
And the return journey I referred to?
Mizter T
On 12 Jan, 17:43, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12 Jan, 17:41, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [x-posted to misc.transport.rail.europe - original thread
> > on uk.railway]
>
> Or rather, it is now - my apologies for the unnecessary electronic
> disturbances folks.
>
>
> > On 12 Jan, 16:47, "David Thornhill" <s...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > It is little wonder most passengers fly these days.
>
> > > [snip Mr Thornhill's account of the difficulties]
> > > [of buying rail tickets from Britain to Germany]
>
> > > It shouldn't be so difficult.
>
> > It's not a response to your issues by any means, but a post from EE507
> > (in a thread last week about Eurostars to Brussels) served as a
> > reminder that DB's fabulously good value London-Spezial fares are now
> > available for journeys *from* London to Cologne and prices start at
> > just €49 one way, with first class at €99.
>
> > It's an offer intended for the German market, or at least for Germans.
> > I say that because it appears that one must book in German - if you
> > change the DB booking engine (aka HAFAS) to English the offer
> > disappears.
>
> > This DB webpage provides some more details plus a link straight into
> > the booking system:
> > http://www.bahn.de/p/view/angebot/international/london-spezial.shtml
>
You see, what none of you have realised is that actually I am an agent
of discontent - I have been released onto the internet by the forces
of Little England in order to foster false grievances and indignation
with our European kin by spreading little packets of falsehoods and
fabrication, in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
continental Europe beyond the Channel.
Alternatively, I messed up - somehow I managed to convince myself that
the London-Spezial tickets were only showing up when the website
spricht Deutsch. I was wrong - the London-Spezial fares actually do
appear to show up when the language is set to English, and I presume
if it were to be set to be another language as well. To be honest I'm
really not quite sure how I managed to get confused like this, it's
pretty daft. Anyway, I did, and then I advertised my daftness to all
and sundry on usenet!
Back to the action - the London-Spezial fares have a limited
availability, and are priced at either €49 or €69 second class or €99
first class each way, plus a €3.50 fee for postage. To me at least,
that sounds like pretty good value - sure, perhaps it's not as far as
you can get with some of the Eurostar + TGV fares, but nonetheless
it's a good price - and unlike the aforementioned Eurostar + TGV fares
it is made available as a single fare rather than just as a return
fare.
Mizter T
On 12 Jan, 22:17, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:58:07 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately it seems DB has copied the hateful SNCF (voyages-
> >sncf.com) practice of offering different fares under different
> >languages.
>
> You sure? It will quite happily offer EUR 49 tickets for next
> Thursday on the 0710 in both languages.
>
As I explain elsewhere, I've basically managed to mistakenly throw a
hand grenade into this discussion and blow it completely off kilter.
In fact the DB London-Spezial fares do appear to be shown regardless
of what language is selected - somehow I managed to get this very
wrong, sorry.
EE507
Hmm, I'm now seeing the fares in English. This is all very odd...
Mizter T
On 12 Jan, 22:24, EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jan 12, 10:17 pm, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:58:07 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Unfortunately it seems DB has copied the hateful SNCF (voyages-
> > >sncf.com) practice of offering different fares under different
> > >languages.
>
> > You sure? It will quite happily offer EUR 49 tickets for next
> > Thursday on the 0710 in both languages.
>
> I doubted Mizter T's post too, but I found the same problem for London-
> Cologne out 08:34 13 Mar, back 14:44 16 Mar.
>
Afraid it looks like my post was nonsense after all. Regarding the
above trains, I can't get the system to show any cheapo tickets on
Monday 16 apart from on the 19:44 train which includes an overnight
stop in Brussels before picking up an early Eurostar connection the
next day - and this is regardless of whether the language is English
or Deutsch.
It makes no difference if one just searches for a single Cologne -
London journey either (not that this should make any difference, but I
checked just in case).
Is the 14:44 time in your post above a typo - is it meant to read
19:44? Because there isn't a 14:44 train from Cologne anyway
Mizter T
I had actually checked the London-Spezial fares early last Friday
evening (9/1/09) after reading your post in the thread about Brussels
Eurostar trains (on uk.r) - after doing a couple of quick experiments
I managed to come to the (erroneous conclusion that the London-Spezial
fares were only offered when the language was German.
Is it remotely possible that at that time they were, because something
was broken somewhere? Though that theory doesn't really make a lot of
sense - cock-up should normally be favoured over conspiracy as an
explanation for such things (the cock-up being of my making!).
Neil Williams
wrote:
>And the return journey I referred to?
There isn't a 1444, but if you meant 1944, there is availability on
that in English.
Neil Williams
<mizt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is it remotely possible that at that time they were, because something
>was broken somewhere?
It could well be.
Arthur Figgis
Careful - at this rate, you'll get elected by a landslide :-)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Lüko Willms
<mizt...@gmail.com> auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
> my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
> proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
> continental Europe beyond the Channel.
Don't worry, we like Cheddar cheese and will eat our way to the
island. And why not English cheddar for a change, since here I only
get Irish cheddar.
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Jetzt die 30-Stunden-Woche einführen bei vollem Lohnausgleich!
> <http://www.sockandawe.com> das online Buschuh-Spiel
Graeme Wall
Mizter T <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> You see, what none of you have realised is that actually I am an agent
> of discontent - I have been released onto the internet by the forces
> of Little England in order to foster false grievances and indignation
> with our European kin by spreading little packets of falsehoods and
> fabrication, in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
> my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
> proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
> continental Europe beyond the Channel.
>
You mean you work for the Sun?
--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>
EE507
wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >And the return journey I referred to?
>
> There isn't a 1444, but if you meant 1944, there is availability on
> that in English.
On this one I am right, as posted above:
To force HAFAS to offer afternoon return options, you need to specify
a 20 min wait at Brussels:
Köln Hbf Mo, 16.03.09 ab 14:44 5 E-F ICE 14 Intercity-Express
Bordbistro
Bruxelles-Midi Mo, 16.03.09 an 17:01
Bruxelles-Midi Mo, 16.03.09 ab 17:01 Übergang 24 Min. Check-In
Zeiten beachten
Bruxelles-Midi Eurostar Mo, 16.03.09 an 17:25
Bruxelles-Midi EST Mo, 16.03.09 ab 17:59 EST 9153 EUROSTAR
Reservierungspflicht, Besonderer Fahrschein oder Zuschlag
erforderlich, Check-In Zeiten beachten, Nichtraucherzug, Bistro Cafe
London St. Pancras International Mo, 16.03.09 an 19:03
Of the two ICEs useful for return journeys, I see specials on the
14:44 but not the 08:44.
Oliver Schnell
>
> Cannot get Hafas to offer the fare eastbound, although perhaps it does if
> you 'frig' around with the system for long enough.
This is just an updated version of 'Fog in the Channel, continent
isolated'.
SCNR
--
Oliver Schnell
Mizter T
I can't get the above (return) journey - i.e. the 14:44 departure from
Cologne - to show up (in either German or English for that matter). I
might just be being stupid - given my previous contribution to the
thread that's perhaps quite likely.
I've done the basic search from the DB home page and also from the
'reiseauskunft' ('travel information') front page at <http://
reiseauskunft.bahn.de> (which is currently working OK). This is what
I've done step-by-step...
* On the 'reiseauskunft' page I've selected "weitere Angaben" /
"Change other data"
* Then in the drop down box to the right of "Angaben zur
Verbindung" / "Connection information" I've selected "Umsteigeizeit
mindestens 20 Minuten" / "Duration of transfer at least 20 min"
* Then I've clicked on the "->Suchen" / "->Search" button.
(If one goes straight on from the DB homepage one misses the advanced
options, but they can be reached from the search result pages by
clicking on the "weitere Angaben" / "Change other data" link.)
Having done all this there's still no 14:44 departure from Cologne
showing up on that Monday - what am I doing wrong?
EE507
> On 13 Jan, 11:54, EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 13, 6:14 am, wensleyd...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams)
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:38:10 -0800 (PST), EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >And the return journey I referred to?
>
> > > There isn't a 1444, but if you meant 1944, there is availability on
> > > that in English.
>
> > 14:44 but not the 08:44.
>
> I can't get the above (return) journey - i.e. the 14:44 departure from
> Cologne - to show up (in either German or English for that matter). I
> might just be being stupid - given my previous contribution to the
> thread that's perhaps quite likely.
>
> "Change other data"
> * Then in the drop down box to the right of "Angaben zur
> Verbindung" / "Connection information" I've selected "Umsteigeizeit
> mindestens 20 Minuten" / "Duration of transfer at least 20 min"
> * Then I've clicked on the "->Suchen" / "->Search" button.
>
I don't use that feature: I simply put Bruxelles Midi in the 'via' box
and 00:20 in the duration box for the return journey.
Result:
Travel data 1 traveller (Age: 30 Years), 2nd class
Outward journey Station/Stop Date Time Duration Chg. Products
London St. Pancras International
Köln Hbf Fr, 13.03.09 dep 08:34
arr 14:15 4:41 1 EST, ICE
Return journey Station/Stop Date Time Duration Chg. Products
Köln Hbf
London St. Pancras International Mo, 16.03.09
Mo, 16.03.09 dep 14:44
arr 19:03 5:19 1 ICE, EST
Your offers for the selected connection
Special fares 2 nd class
London-Spezial Number of tickets is limited, use of selected train is
required 98,00 EUR Purchase
Special fares in 1st class • Special comfort • Special tranquility •
Special service • Amazingly low-priced London-Spezial 1st class
Number of tickets is limited, use of selected train is required 198,00
EUR Purchase
Daniel Smith
> In message <1793cb47-785f-45fe...@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
> Mizter T <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> You see, what none of you have realised is that actually I am an agent
>> of discontent - I have been released onto the internet by the forces
>> of Little England in order to foster false grievances and indignation
>> with our European kin by spreading little packets of falsehoods and
>> fabrication, in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
>> my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
>> proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
>> continental Europe beyond the Channel.
>>
>
> You mean you work for the Sun?
>
simon
"Daniel Smith" <das...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gkj5u3$so8$2...@news.motzarella.org...
:-)
cheers,
Simon
Graeme Wall
Daniel Smith <das...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Same paper effectively.
Mizter T
On 14 Jan, 08:44, Graeme Wall <R...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <gkj5u3$so...@news.motzarella.org>
> Daniel Smith <dasy...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Graeme Wall wrote:
> > > In message <1793cb47-785f-45fe-8452-ef3701ec7...@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
> > > Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > [snip]
> > >> You see, what none of you have realised is that actually I am an agent
> > >> of discontent - I have been released onto the internet by the forces
> > >> of Little England in order to foster false grievances and indignation
> > >> with our European kin by spreading little packets of falsehoods and
> > >> fabrication, in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
> > >> my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
> > >> proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
> > >> continental Europe beyond the Channel.
>
> > > You mean you work for the Sun?
>
> > dont you mean the news of the world there
>
> Same paper effectively.
>
Yes and no - both the Sun and NOTW are published by News Group
Newspapers, an operating subsidiary of News International. Yes they're
very much from the same stable no doubt, but my understanding is that
there is quite some considerable rivalry between their newsrooms.
Anyway this is all a rather odd tangent isn't it - I can't quite see
what Daniel Smith was getting at! (I don't think NOTW are notably more
Eurosceptic or Little Englander than the Sun, but I haven't done an
extensive textual analysis of this though!)
Graeme Wall
Mizter T <mizt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 14 Jan, 08:44, Graeme Wall <R...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <gkj5u3$so...@news.motzarella.org>
> > Daniel Smith <dasy...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > Graeme Wall wrote:
> > > > In message <1793cb47-785f-45fe-8452-ef3701ec7...@v18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
> > > > Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > [snip]
> > > >> You see, what none of you have realised is that actually I am an agent
> > > >> of discontent - I have been released onto the internet by the forces
> > > >> of Little England in order to foster false grievances and indignation
> > > >> with our European kin by spreading little packets of falsehoods and
> > > >> fabrication, in the hope that these mendacious little acts will please
> > > >> my masters who wish to drive a wedge of English cheddar between this
> > > >> proud isle and that festering morass of decrepitude we call
> > > >> continental Europe beyond the Channel.
> >
> > > > You mean you work for the Sun?
> >
> > > dont you mean the news of the world there
> >
> > Same paper effectively.
> >
>
> Yes and no - both the Sun and NOTW are published by News Group
> Newspapers, an operating subsidiary of News International. Yes they're
> very much from the same stable no doubt, but my understanding is that
> there is quite some considerable rivalry between their newsrooms.
Doubtless there is, but the overall political strategy is still dictated from
New York, to push the Murdoch anti-Europe line.
Interestingly, if Brown were to go for a spring election there'll be a lot of
brown trousers in the editorial offices of both papers. The Sun has to be
seen to be supporting the winner and who would win now is anybody's guess.
The NOTW is in an even worse position, they've got to make a commitment 4
days before polling day.
> Anyway this is all a rather odd tangent isn't it - I can't quite see
> what Daniel Smith was getting at! (I don't think NOTW are notably more
> Eurosceptic or Little Englander than the Sun, but I haven't done an
> extensive textual analysis of this though!)
Maybe that's what he reads, quite a few people read a Sunday tabloid for the
smut but take a 'serious' paper during the week.
EE507
Right, after many hours of tinkering I've finally managed to book a
ticket, and I think I understand the quirks of DB's system. As part of
a Plzen to Sussex journey, I've bought a Furth im Wald to London first
class ticket for €102.50 (inc €3.50 postage, not that it actually
costs that, but never mind).
Firstly, I found connections to Frankfurt, then onto ICE 14 as above.
Green tick for availability (no availability of €49 second class)...
through to booking... enter payment details... then, oops, the system
stated it couldn't make a reservation on the compulsory reservation
leg i.e. Eurostar. At this point I was ready to throw a brick at the
screen or, even worse, turn to easyJet.
Not wishing to be a climate criminal, I 'changed details' and inserted
a 90 minute wait at Brussels Midi. Yes, of all the places to spend 2
hours, it has to be Midi. Anyway, this worked: an unnecessary delay of
53 minutes, but saves me the trouble of finding food and booking an
expensive E* single.
So the lesson to take away is that a green tick on the connections
page does not indicate E* quota availability, merely the DB bits. You
have to enter card details before you can be sure your preferred
trains are bookable. Perhaps by 2020 Railteam (remember them?) will
have cracked this. Hopefully Thalys, of which DB is a consortium
member, will be properly integrated with DB's ICEs before then, giving
many more through booking options.
Oh, and in case you were wondering... yes, that's right, my E* seat
reservation is pillar-aligned and back to travel. This has to be a
conspiracy!
Mizter T
On 23 Jan, 19:33, EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> Right, after many hours of tinkering I've finally managed to book a
> ticket, and I think I understand the quirks of DB's system. As part of
> a Plzen to Sussex journey, I've bought a Furth im Wald to London first
> class ticket for €102.50 (inc €3.50 postage, not that it actually
> costs that, but never mind).
>
> Firstly, I found connections to Frankfurt, then onto ICE 14 as above.
> Green tick for availability (no availability of €49 second class)...
> through to booking... enter payment details... then, oops, the system
> stated it couldn't make a reservation on the compulsory reservation
> leg i.e. Eurostar. At this point I was ready to throw a brick at the
> screen or, even worse, turn to easyJet.
>
> Not wishing to be a climate criminal, I 'changed details' and inserted
> a 90 minute wait at Brussels Midi. Yes, of all the places to spend 2
> hours, it has to be Midi. Anyway, this worked: an unnecessary delay of
> 53 minutes, but saves me the trouble of finding food and booking an
> expensive E* single.
>
> So the lesson to take away is that a green tick on the connections
> page does not indicate E* quota availability, merely the DB bits. You
> have to enter card details before you can be sure your preferred
> trains are bookable. Perhaps by 2020 Railteam (remember them?) will
> have cracked this. Hopefully Thalys, of which DB is a consortium
> member, will be properly integrated with DB's ICEs before then, giving
> many more through booking options.
That is just daft - so you can't actually find out whether or not a
through ticket for the selected journey is available until you've
actually committed yourself to attempting to purchase it... not good,
not good at all.
So how do we think the Eurostar quota system works? Is the arrangement
perhaps that for the London Spezial ticket DB can dip into the quota
for the cheapest Eurostar seats - for example the same quota as the
tickets listed as 'BX' under the "Booking class of service" on the PDF
fare tables here...
<http://www.eurostar4agents.com/travel/before_you_go/fares/index.htm>
...but they can obviously only do this if any seats are available?
If one is able to insert a pause at Brussels and get on a later E*
this suggests that DB aren't restricted to only putting London Spezial
ticket holders on specific connecting trains. What's more the idea
that E* would have a specific quota left aside on certain trains for
the sole use of DB is a nonsense, as DB would never sell all their
allocated tickets for through journeys from Germany. Therefore it
suggests DB can and do dip-in to the globally available E* cheap seats
and if available snap them up for their London Spezial through
passengers.
Unfortunately it would seem that they don't actually query the E*
booking database until one tries to buy a damn ticket. As I said
earlier, daft.
Nonetheless thanks EE507 for coming back and posting your experiences
- plus you appear to have worked out a way of taking on the DB booking
system and winning, what with the insertion of the 90 minute wait at
Brussels. That might prove to be a way of actually making the London
Spezial offer work more often by turning a potential fare into
reality.
Needless to say of course, one wouldn't have to jump through hoops
like that when booking with Easyjet. Roll on a day when this all just
works, and green ticks don't mean amber they mean green!
By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
Arthur Figgis
> By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
I've been offered some kind of entertainment there on an evening. While
I don't speak French, as a former regular user of late night trains from
King's Cross, I can take a guess at what was on sale...
If there is anything to do near Midi [that doesn't start with "Take a
tram to ..."] I've not found it. I live in hope that there is a good bar
which I've just not found yet.
EE507
>
> Needless to say of course, one wouldn't have to jump through hoops
> like that when booking with Easyjet. Roll on a day when this all just
> works, and green ticks don't mean amber they mean green!
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
As ICEs call, I intend to bale at Nord, then head to a bar somewhere
in the city centre. Does anyone have the GBG to Belgium - any
recommendations?
Failing that, I may do a fill-in move on one of the peak loco-hauled P
trains, making up for the fact I'll be on units all the way from
Nuernberg.
Mizter T
On 23 Jan, 21:30, Arthur Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> Mizter T wrote:
> > By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
>
> I've been offered some kind of entertainment there on an evening. While
> I don't speak French, as a former regular user of late night trains from
> King's Cross, I can take a guess at what was on sale...
I walked straight into that one, me thinks! The whole King's Cross
area has scrubbed up somewhat in recent years, so I dare say it's not
beyond Midi to do similar.
>
> If there is anything to do near Midi [that doesn't start with "Take a
> tram to ..."] I've not found it. I live in hope that there is a good bar
> which I've just not found yet.
Then you must make it your mission! Being serious, if Midi is going to
remain as gateway to central Europe for the foreseeable future - and
being realistic the current passport and security check regime isn't
about to disappear - then the splendid watering hole replete with
outstanding waffles that's just around the corner from the station
needs to be found, the future of pan-European rail travel depends upon
it.
EE507
For dates in March, the 08:34 London-Brussels was in HAFAS when I
checked last week. Now that E* has confimed it's running from the end
of Feb, it's promptly disappeared!
This if course is the train that connects well into the 11:59 ICE for
travel into Germany.
I'll e-mail DB with this one, in the hope it'll reappear before E*'s
cheap seats have gone.
fonn_vo...@hotmail.com
Have a look at the thread from December 07 titled "Brussels Midi -
eating". It contains many interesting suggestions - mostly
restaurants - and includes a post from one Arthur Figgis, presumably
no relation. :-)
Arthur Figgis
The impression I get is that they have been cleaning it up by
demolishing most of the surroundings.
It feels like the whole idea of Midi is that passengers won't "need" to
go outside the station itself, so SNCB can pull up the drawbridge -
anyone going in or out can use the trams or metro to escape to the city
centre, if you want food and drink you can use the station takeaways or
the robotic 24h supermarket-o-matic, etc etc.
The Midi area is probably worse that King's Cross/St Pancras, if only
because the London end has lots of "normal" people in the streets - and
doesn't smell as bad.
Neil Williams
wrote:
>Oh, and in case you were wondering... yes, that's right, my E* seat
>reservation is pillar-aligned and back to travel. This has to be a
>conspiracy!
Just sit somewhere else. There's usually space, and it isn't
enforced.
Graeme Wall
EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 9:05 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Needless to say of course, one wouldn't have to jump through hoops like
> > that when booking with Easyjet. Roll on a day when this all just works,
> > and green ticks don't mean amber they mean green!
> >
> > By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?- Hide quoted
> > text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> As ICEs call, I intend to bale at Nord, then head to a bar somewhere
> in the city centre. Does anyone have the GBG to Belgium - any
> recommendations?
If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
with plenty of bars to hand
fonn_vo...@hotmail.com
> In message <99b77b50-bee4-4969-8774-5fa20bd2d...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
> EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 23, 9:05 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Needless to say of course, one wouldn't have to jump through hoops like
> > > that when booking with Easyjet. Roll on a day when this all just works,
> > > and green ticks don't mean amber they mean green!
>
> > > By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?- Hide quoted
> > > text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > As ICEs call, I intend to bale at Nord, then head to a bar somewhere
> > in the city centre. Does anyone have the GBG to Belgium - any
> > recommendations?
>
> If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
> with plenty of bars to hand
>
It doesn't, unfortunately, but you can change from the ICE at Nord and
a Belgian train calling at Central will likely be along at the same
platform within a few minutes.
Arthur Figgis
I've stopped at Midi three times since December 2007, and not found
anything much... (the fourth time I just changed trains in a matter of
minutes)
Phil Richards
Last time I passed through Brussels (November 2007) I wandered towards
the city centre and found a fairly empty Italian restaurant.
As has been said before the area around Midi station isn't particularly
nice (which is the often same for many "central" stations in big cities).
--
Phil Richards, London, UK
3,600+ railway photos since 1980 at:
http://europeanrail.fotopic.net
http://britishrail.fotopic.net
Neil Williams
<Ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
>with plenty of bars to hand
Scummy station at platform level, though...more than a passing
resemblance to Liverpool Central low-level.
Graeme Wall
wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:42:23 +0000, Graeme Wall
> <Ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
> >with plenty of bars to hand
>
> Scummy station at platform level, though...more than a passing
> resemblance to Liverpool Central low-level.
>
Nord's not a great deal better and the surrounding area is more like Midi.
Can't comment on Liverpool Central, never used it.
Mizter T
On 24 Jan, 13:59, fonn_volt_w...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 24 Jan, 11:42, Graeme Wall <R...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <99b77b50-bee4-4969-8774-5fa20bd2d...@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
> > EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 23, 9:05 pm, Mizter T <mizte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> > > > By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
>
> > > As ICEs call, I intend to bale at Nord, then head to a bar somewhere
> > > in the city centre. Does anyone have the GBG to Belgium - any
> > > recommendations?
>
> > If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
> > with plenty of bars to hand
>
> It doesn't, unfortunately, but you can change from the ICE at Nord and
> a Belgian train calling at Central will likely be along at the same
> platform within a few minutes.
>
Would one's existing ticket be valid for this short hop though?
Andrew Price
Williams) wrote:
>>If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
>>with plenty of bars to hand
>
>Scummy station at platform level, though...more than a passing
>resemblance to Liverpool Central low-level.
Isn't it just. Interesting walk through the adjacent Galerie
Ravenstein and up the flights of steps to the Royal Palace.
Lüko Willms
<mizt...@gmail.com> auf uk.railway :
> > It doesn't, unfortunately, but you can change from the ICE at Nord and
> > a Belgian train calling at Central will likely be along at the same
> > platform within a few minutes.
> Would one's existing ticket be valid for this short hop though?
If we are talking about a DB "London Special" -- no. That is tied to
a specific train. But Brusssels Nord to Brussels South is not the
world. You could take a tram.
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Jetzt die 30-Stunden-Woche einführen bei vollem Lohnausgleich!
> <http://www.sockandawe.com> das online Buschuh-Spiel
Paul Plak
depends what time you arrive. Before 21:00 there are three bars inside
the station, but if your a non-smoker, hem ... just do not even try.
Now that smoking is forbidden wihtin the station and trains, all
smokers go there, and it's a nightmare.
During office hours you can go to the rue de France (west side), there
are some new bar's in the opposite block.
In the evening, I'd go to the IBIS Hotel, exit east side (platform 21),
it's across the street.
If you have some two hours and want a nice meal, try Hotel - Restaurant
"La Grande Ecluse" avenue Poincaré.
http://www.linternaute.com/sortir/sorties/resto/livres/07/restaurants-bruxelles/07-grande-ecluse.shtml
And for some tourism, you can go to "Le Musée de la Gueuse", it's 10 to
15 min. walk from the station.
http://www.bruxellespourtous.be/spip.php?article540
--
PPL
Paul Plak
I don't know about your specific international ticket, but for local
belgian train tickets, yes, any travel to brussels entitles you to
travel between all train stations inside Brussels.
--
PPL
Paul Plak
> <Ra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> If it stops at Central bail there, you are right in the middle of the city
>> with plenty of bars to hand
> Scummy station at platform level, though...more than a passing
> resemblance to Liverpool Central low-level.
> Neil
It's getting modernised right now. It's already a lot better, there's a
new Gallery to the City centre too, starting at the level just above
the platforms (that's one below the ticket queues).
--
PPL
Mizter T
On 25 Jan, 21:33, Paul Plak <paul.p...@skynet.be> wrote:
> > Mizter T wrote:
> >> By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
> > I've been offered some kind of entertainment there on an evening. While I
> > don't speak French, as a former regular user of late night trains from King's
> > Cross, I can take a guess at what was on sale...
> > If there is anything to do near Midi [that doesn't start with "Take a tram to
> > ..."] I've not found it. I live in hope that there is a good bar which I've
> > just not found yet.
>
> depends what time you arrive. Before 21:00 there are three bars inside
> the station, but if your a non-smoker, hem ... just do not even try.
> Now that smoking is forbidden wihtin the station and trains, all
> smokers go there, and it's a nightmare.
>
> During office hours you can go to the rue de France (west side), there
> are some new bar's in the opposite block.
>
> In the evening, I'd go to the IBIS Hotel, exit east side (platform 21),
> it's across the street.
>
> If you have some two hours and want a nice meal, try Hotel - Restaurant
> "La Grande Ecluse" avenue Poincaré.
> http://www.linternaute.com/sortir/sorties/resto/livres/07/restaurants...
>
> And for some tourism, you can go to "Le Musée de la Gueuse", it's 10 to
> 15 min. walk from the station.
> http://www.bruxellespourtous.be/spip.php?article540
>
Excellent local knowledge, thanks very much. I've come across the IBIS
bar suggestion elsewhere - it is apparently totally open to non-
residents - but La Grande Ecluse looks great, a restaurant situated in
the old engine room of a lock. And the beer museum sounds like fun too
- one of the earlier posters (EE507) who was asking whether anyone had
a copy of the GBG (Good Beer Guide) to Brussels might find this
interesting, it certainly sounds good to me.
Mizter T
On 24 Jan, 10:38, Arthur Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> Mizter T wrote:
> > On 23 Jan, 21:30, Arthur Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> Mizter T wrote:
> >>> By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
> >> I've been offered some kind of entertainment there on an evening. While
> >> I don't speak French, as a former regular user of late night trains from
> >> King's Cross, I can take a guess at what was on sale...
>
> > I walked straight into that one, me thinks! The whole King's Cross
> > area has scrubbed up somewhat in recent years, so I dare say it's not
> > beyond Midi to do similar.
>
> >> If there is anything to do near Midi [that doesn't start with "Take a
> >> tram to ..."] I've not found it. I live in hope that there is a good bar
> >> which I've just not found yet.
>
> > Then you must make it your mission! Being serious, if Midi is going to
> > remain as gateway to central Europe for the foreseeable future - and
> > being realistic the current passport and security check regime isn't
> > about to disappear - then the splendid watering hole replete with
> > outstanding waffles that's just around the corner from the station
> > needs to be found, the future of pan-European rail travel depends upon
> > it.
>
> The impression I get is that they have been cleaning it up by
> demolishing most of the surroundings.
I presume this is Midi you're speaking about, right?
>
> It feels like the whole idea of Midi is that passengers won't "need" to
> go outside the station itself, so SNCB can pull up the drawbridge -
> anyone going in or out can use the trams or metro to escape to the city
> centre, if you want food and drink you can use the station takeaways or
> the robotic 24h supermarket-o-matic, etc etc.
>
> The Midi area is probably worse that King's Cross/St Pancras, if only
> because the London end has lots of "normal" people in the streets - and
> doesn't smell as bad.
>
I think the King's Cross area has changed quite a bit in recent years
- I'm not saying the seediness has disappeared altogether, more that
it's no longer the predominant theme of the area like it used to seem
to be. There is something of a thriving non-seedy nightlife in King's
Cross nowadays. There's also the new Kings Place arts venue [1] up on
York Way which is now the new home of the Guardian newspapers, and
apparently plays host to Network Rail offices too (so sez wikipedia).
And the big King's Cross Central [2] development on the site of the
old goods yard will further change the dynamic of the area - e.g. the
entire Central Saint Martins art college is moving up there from
Holborn.
I think the time when "King's Cross" was automatically regarded as a
byword for a Bad Place is basically coming to an end, though that's
not to say that many people won't carry this image around in their
heads for many years to come, nor is it now some perfectly genteel
district either.
----
[1] Kings Place without an apostrophe for reasons unknown.
<http://www.kingsplace.co.uk/>
[2] Well, they used to call it "King's Cross Central" - they don't
appear to have a fancy name for it at all these days:
<http://www.argentkingscross.com/>
Oliver Schnell
>
> Right, after many hours of tinkering I've finally managed to book a
> ticket, and I think I understand the quirks of DB's system. As part of
> a Plzen to Sussex journey, I've bought a Furth im Wald to London first
> costs that, but never mind).
If booking via bahn.de is *that* horrible, why did'nt you book your trip
Plznen- Sussex in one go on the CD or the Eurostar website?
--
Oliver Schnell
EE507
You've lost me.
Oliver Schnell
Paul Plak
>>> Mizter T wrote:
>>>> By the by, is there really nothing one can do near Midi...?
>>> I've been offered some kind of entertainment there on an evening. While I
>>> don't speak French, as a former regular user of late night trains from
>>> King's Cross, I can take a guess at what was on sale...
>>> If there is anything to do near Midi [that doesn't start with "Take a tram
>>> to ..."] I've not found it. I live in hope that there is a good bar which
>>> I've just not found yet.
>>
>> depends what time you arrive. Before 21:00 there are three bars inside
>> the station, but if your a non-smoker, hem ... just do not even try.
>> Now that smoking is forbidden wihtin the station and trains, all
>> smokers go there, and it's a nightmare.
>>
>> During office hours you can go to the rue de France (west side), there
>> are some new bar's in the opposite block.
>>
>> In the evening, I'd go to the IBIS Hotel, exit east side (platform 21),
>> it's across the street.
>>
>> If you have some two hours and want a nice meal, try Hotel - Restaurant
>> "La Grande Ecluse" avenue Poincaré.
>> http://www.linternaute.com/sortir/sorties/resto/livres/07/restaurants...
>>
>> And for some tourism, you can go to "Le Musée de la Gueuse", it's 10 to
>> 15 min. walk from the station.
>> http://www.bruxellespourtous.be/spip.php?article540
>>
> Excellent local knowledge, thanks very much.
Well I usually see this station once a day.
> I've come across the IBIS
> bar suggestion elsewhere - it is apparently totally open to non-
> residents
It is
> - but La Grande Ecluse looks great, a restaurant situated in
> the old engine room of a lock.
weel, I liked the food and the decoration. I recommend taking a
reservation before you go.
> And the beer museum sounds like fun too
> - one of the earlier posters (EE507) who was asking whether anyone had
> a copy of the GBG (Good Beer Guide) to Brussels might find this
> interesting, it certainly sounds good to me.
Haven't tried it yet, but I see some groups going there. The brewery
has an execllent reputation, the museum part has been added later.
--
PPL
PRAR
Rant)
Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:59:09 -0800 (PST), fonn_vo...@hotmail.com
Is the OP's ticket valid for break of journey?
PRAR
--
<http://www.i.am/prar/> and <http://prar.fotopic.net/>
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
- If you must email me use the Reply to address and not pr...@deadspam.com
Andrew Price
wrote:
[Bruxelles Midi]
>depends what time you arrive. Before 21:00 there are three bars inside
>the station, but if your a non-smoker, hem ... just do not even try.
>Now that smoking is forbidden wihtin the station and trains, all
>smokers go there, and it's a nightmare.
Does the smoking ban exclude the platforms, or is it just not
enforced? I've been through there a couple of times recently, the
last time just this evening, and on each occasion I've seen people
smoking on the platforms.
Paul Plak
> [Bruxelles Midi]
the ban message says : "banned within the trains and the stations".
However, everyone assumes this means "within the station buildings"
only. So platforms in open air are now used for smoking "the last one"
before departure, and it's real hard at times to find a smokeless spot.
I hate that.
On the plus side, you can now go to the heated waiting rooms, when they
exist, and stay there without being smoken away.
--
PPL
EE507
The 08:34 (for travel 18 or 19 March) has now vanished from E*'s
online booking system, so it seems I was wrong to blame DB. Anyone
know what's going on?
And yes, I have already contacted E* (and DB). They are both going to
lose more business at this rate.
David Thornhill
"EE507" <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fd9db2e3-a26f-4c5b...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
The 08:34 (for travel 18 or 19 March) has now vanished from E*'s
online booking system, so it seems I was wrong to blame DB. Anyone
know what's going on?
The database has been in a mess for weeks.
But if a train is fully booked they remove it from the viewable database.
Even a simple timetable enquiry, perhaps to check what time you need to meet
friends off a train, will not show the train if it is fully booked. Seems
very silly to me, but about what I expect from Eurostar.
Why the 08:34 is missing could be due to 'mess', it's fully booked or I'm
sure Eurostar has other implausible reasons.
David
Mizter T
On 29 Jan, 16:28, "David Thornhill" <s...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "EE507" <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The 08:34 (for travel 18 or 19 March) has now vanished from E*'s
> online booking system, so it seems I was wrong to blame DB. Anyone
> know what's going on?
>
> -----
>
> The database has been in a mess for weeks.
>
> But if a train is fully booked they remove it from the viewable database.
> Even a simple timetable enquiry, perhaps to check what time you need to meet
> friends off a train, will not show the train if it is fully booked. Seems
> very silly to me, but about what I expect from Eurostar.
>
> Why the 08:34 is missing could be due to 'mess', it's fully booked or I'm
> sure Eurostar has other implausible reasons.
>
That's nuts!
That said it doesn't appear to be an issue that's specific to any one
booking system - the 08:34 'ghost train' doesn't show up in the
voyages-sncf, SNCB/NMBS or Rail Europe planners either, as well as
being absent from the Eurostar and DB planners.
EE507
It's back, with correct timings (08:34-11:29)!
But look at this e-mail response from E*:
----
Thank you for your e mail,
After the 23rd of February we are resuming a full service on the
Eurostar, The 08:34 service has been replaced by the 08:25 service
which arrives in Brussels at 11:50 local time. This new service is
available to book online now. I have just checked on the Eurostar.com
website to ensure that this service is publicly available. If the
service does not show for you then you will need to delete any
Eurostar cookies you may have on your computer. A cookie is a small
data file that stores some information like country and language
settings, they can sometimes store errors as well. The method of
deleting your cookies will vary from one browser to another. We would
advise you to consult the help file for your browser, this can usually
be located along the top of your screen.
----
So, just waiting for DB to upload the (correct) gen...
EE507
>
> >news:fd9db2e3-a26f-4c5b...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The 08:34 (for travel 18 or 19 March) has now vanished from E*'s
> > online booking system, so it seems I was wrong to blame DB. Anyone
> > know what's going on?
>
>
> But look at this e-mail response from E*:
>
> ----
> Thank you for your e mail,
>
> After the 23rd of February we are resuming a full service on the
> Eurostar, The 08:34 service has been replaced by the 08:25 service
> which arrives in Brussels at 11:50 local time. This new service is
> available to book online now. I have just checked on the Eurostar.com
> website to ensure that this service is publicly available. If the
> service does not show for you then you will need to delete any
> Eurostar cookies you may have on your computer. A cookie is a small
> data file that stores some information like country and language
> settings, they can sometimes store errors as well. The method of
> deleting your cookies will vary from one browser to another. We would
> advise you to consult the help file for your browser, this can usually
> be located along the top of your screen.
The latest from E* <bangs head on wall>:
----
Dear xxx
Thank you for your e mail,
I'm sorry but as I'm sure you can appreciate the content Deutsche Bahn
offer on their website is something we have no influence or control
over. I would advise you to contact Deutsche Bahn directly to enquire
when they will be opening up this service for reservations on their
system.
If I can offer any further assistance please do not hesitate to
contact me again.
Kind Regards
Ricky, Eurostar.com support
----
Er, Ricky, I think you'll find DB relies on gen from train operators
such as yourself...
<bangs head on wall again>
EE507
>
> - Show quoted text -
No further replies from E*, but the 08:34 is back in HAFAS! Wish me
luck finding cheap through tickets to Dresden...
William JONES
|[...]
|No further replies from E*, but the 08:34 is back in HAFAS! Wish me
|luck finding cheap through tickets to Dresden...
E* to Brussels, then find an "Europa-Spezial" with DB from Brussels to
Dresden, 39 EUR single if booked long enough in advance and quota available.
--
A+
William.
=============
La mort est une blessure qui ne se referme jamais ; parfois on saigne moins,
c'est tout.
Lüko Willms
auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> No further replies from E*, but the 08:34 is back in HAFAS! Wish me
> luck finding cheap through tickets to Dresden...
I found for March 18 a London Special First Class for 99 Euro,
starting with EST9120 dep. 8:34, then ICE15 to Frankfurt, and
replacements for the ICE-T thru trains to Dresden with one ICE to
Fulda, an IC to Leipzig, and an RE to Dresden. Arrival in Dresden at
21:38h.
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
EE507
Not quite the same, but I've booked a €99 first class ticket for the
following:
London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
Bruxelles-Midi EST 11:29
Bruxelles-Midi 11:59
Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 15:40
Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 16:02
Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:06
Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:22 IC 79683 (could run 15 mins late!)
Weimar 18:50
Weimar 19:00 IC 2151
Halle(Saale)Hbf 19:56
Halle(Saale)Hbf 20:12 RE 26033
Leipzig Hbf 20:38
Leipzig Hbf 20:51 IC 79675
Dresden Hbf 22:12
I'm hoping for interesting traction on the 79xxx ICs...
I now need to book the return by overnight sleeper via Duisburg, Essen
and a trip on the ultra-civilised Duesseldorf-Krefeld bistro tram!
Lüko Willms
auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
That's a lot of changes between Frankfurt and Leipzig, but in
exchange your connection is more than an hour faster than what I was
first offered by Hafas.
> Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 16:02
> Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:06
I think that because in "Nahverkehr" (NV) there is no "Zugbindung"
(ticket tied to the train) you could use any other non-IC and non-ICE
train from Hbf to Süd, including the S-Bahn going underground under
the city center, and then coming into the elevated platforms of
Frankfurt-Süd from the East (only lines S3, S4, S5 and S6). There is
also RE4542 to Bebra at 15:50 from track 6. U-Bahn is not allowed with
the long-distance ticket.
Frankfurt Süd is much smaller than Frankfurt Hbf with less train
movements, but one can see trains passing, even some freight trains.
> Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:22 IC 79683 (could run 15 mins late!)
the funny thing is that IC79683 goes to Leipzig, planned arrival at
19:50h. Did you have to take the detour via Halle to get the London
Special? BTW, if the train really gets 15 minuts late between Fulda
and Weimar making the connection there impossible, you should stay in
that train to Leipzig since DB is responsible for the delay.
> Weimar 18:50
> Weimar 19:00 IC 2151
> Halle(Saale)Hbf 19:56
> Halle(Saale)Hbf 20:12 RE 26033
> Leipzig Hbf 20:38
> Leipzig Hbf 20:51 IC 79675
> Dresden Hbf 22:12
>
> I'm hoping for interesting traction on the 79xxx ICs...
Have a nice trip!
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
EE507
> Am Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:20:11 UTC, schrieb EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk>
> auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
>
> That's a lot of changes between Frankfurt and Leipzig, but in
> exchange your connection is more than an hour faster than what I was
> first offered by Hafas.
It's good to stretch the legs on a marathon journey, I get more 79xxx
trains (class 110 reported on some of these at the moment), and this
route was cheaper owing to a lack of cheap tickets on 79683 east of
Weimar (I assume).
> > Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 16:02
> > Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:06
>
> I think that because in "Nahverkehr" (NV) there is no "Zugbindung"
> (ticket tied to the train) you could use any other non-IC and non-ICE
> train from Hbf to Süd, including the S-Bahn going underground under
> the city center, and then coming into the elevated platforms of
> Frankfurt-Süd from the East (only lines S3, S4, S5 and S6).
What is their combined frequency? Which S-Bahn lines use the oldest
EMUs, and which RB/REs through Ost are loco-hauled?
> Frankfurt Süd is much smaller than Frankfurt Hbf with less train
> movements, but one can see trains passing, even some freight trains.
Will prep my camera...
> > Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:22 IC 79683 (could run 15 mins late!)
>
> the funny thing is that IC79683 goes to Leipzig, planned arrival at
> 19:50h. Did you have to take the detour via Halle to get the London
> Special?
Yes, the difference was €80 as I recall, but my main motivation is
maximising loco-haulage on trains with potential for something old and
interesting on the front.
> BTW, if the train really gets 15 minuts late between Fulda
> and Weimar making the connection there impossible, you should stay in
> that train to Leipzig since DB is responsible for the delay.
Yes, I've learned the hard way to get delays endorsed by grippers as
soon as possible. I assume the connection in Weimar would be held for
5 mins - one of the joys of using DB compared to our fragmented, delay-
minute-obsessed railway.
> > Weimar 18:50
> > Weimar 19:00 IC 2151
> > Halle(Saale)Hbf 19:56
> > Halle(Saale)Hbf 20:12 RE 26033
> > Leipzig Hbf 20:38
> > Leipzig Hbf 20:51 IC 79675
> > Dresden Hbf 22:12
>
> > I'm hoping for interesting traction on the 79xxx ICs...
>
> Have a nice trip!
Cheers!
Lüko Willms
auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> > > Frankfurt(Main)Hbf 16:02
> > > Frankfurt(Main)Süd 16:06
> >
> > I think that because in "Nahverkehr" (NV) there is no "Zugbindung"
> > (ticket tied to the train) you could use any other non-IC and non-ICE
> > train from Hbf to Süd, including the S-Bahn going underground under
> > the city center, and then coming into the elevated platforms of
> > Frankfurt-Süd from the East (only lines S3, S4, S5 and S6).
>
> What is their combined frequency?
hm, can I leave that to you to look up in Hafas? It's late and I am
tired. Enter Frankfurt Hbf and Frankfurt Süd as start and end of
journey, select "only local trains" or how that spells in English...
> Which S-Bahn lines use the oldest EMUs,
S3 uses Class 420, S4 mostly too, I think, but S5 and S6 use Class
423. The latter is the newer one. I prefer the 423 since one can walk
thru the whole four-car unit.
> and which RB/REs through Ost are loco-hauled?
Thru Ost? RB or RE from Hbf to Süd does not pass via Ost, some of
them would continue to Ost after Süd... All of them are loco-hauled,
with a few exceptions (VIAS).
> > Frankfurt Süd is much smaller than Frankfurt Hbf with less train
> > movements, but one can see trains passing, even some freight trains.
>
> Will prep my camera...
You might catch a Class 66...
> my main motivation is
> maximising loco-haulage on trains with potential for something old and
> interesting on the front.
> (class 110 reported on some of these at the moment)
I think I saw a Class 101 on one of those trains a few days ago.
Enjoy!
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
fonn_vo...@hotmail.com
No difference, I think. The old and new types are spread evenly
among all the Frankfurt S-Bahn lines, AFAICT, so it's a well-
architected system. On the new type, watch for the 7 second delay
(I counted it!) between the doors locking and the train showing any
sign of life. I expect Lüko can explain why they do this, but on an S-
Bahn it seems like a design flaw to me.
Lüko Willms
auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> Frankfurt S-Bahn
> On the new type, watch for the 7 second delay
> (I counted it!) between the doors locking and the train showing any
> sign of life. I expect Lüko can explain why they do this, but on an S-
> Bahn it seems like a design flaw to me.
No, I can't explain it. I am a simple user, and I also have not yet
consciously noted this lapse of time. Next time I should look at it.
I guess that the train driver has to check that all doors are really
closed before he is allowed to start.
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
EE507
>
> I now need to book the return by overnight sleeper via Duisburg, Essen
> and a trip on the ultra-civilised Duesseldorf-Krefeld bistro tram!
Et voila:
Dresden Hbf 20:51 CNL 456
Duisburg Hbf 07:15
Duisburg Hbf 07:39 RE
Essen Hbf 07:51
Essen Hbf 09:26 S6
Düsseldorf Hbf 10:10
Düsseldorf Hbf 10:25 U76
Krefeld Rheinstrasse 11:10
Krefeld Rheinstrasse 12:05 U76
Düsseldorf Hbf 12:49
Düsseldorf Hbf 13:11 S6
Köln Hbf 14:03
Köln Hbf 14:44 ICE 14
Bruxelles Midi 17:01
Bruxelles Midi 17:59 EST 9153
London St. Pancras 19:03
London St. Pancras 19:22
Preston Park 20:42
€132.50 with postage, covering everything except the Ruhr Stadtbahn
and the final domestic leg. NV Duisburg-Essen-Köln, giving me the
freedom to bash ex-Docklands units in Essen and the bistro trams.
Could someone confirm whether Ruhr S6 is still booked for class 143?
It was last September, but things are changing fast.
EE507
>
> €132.50 with postage, covering everything except the Ruhr Stadtbahn
> and the final domestic leg.
That's sharing a T3 sleeper by the way, now that DB permits it once
again.
Valentin Brückel
> Could someone confirm whether Ruhr S6 is still booked for class 143?
> It was last September, but things are changing fast.
Not that fast...
The new class 422 EMUs are finally being delivered, but S6 will be the last
line to recieve them. AFAIK, they will even be limited to the short runs
ending within the Ruhr region. VRR (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Ruhr) paid for them
and they don't want them to use them on services crossing the border toward
the VRS (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Sieg) to the south.
Val
William JONES
"EE507" <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit dans le message de news:
335bb7d3-15e3-4945...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 14, 1:20 am, EE507 <ee...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I now need to book the return by overnight sleeper via Duisburg, Essen
> and a trip on the ultra-civilised Duesseldorf-Krefeld bistro tram!
Et voila:
Dresden Hbf 20:51 CNL 456
Duisburg Hbf 07:15
Duisburg Hbf 07:39 RE
Essen Hbf 07:51
Essen Hbf 09:26 S6
Düsseldorf Hbf 10:10
[...]
--------------------------------------------
Between Duisburg and Düsseldorf, why don't you use the tram line U79,
Duisburg - Düsseldorf : it seems quicker and more direct !
Rian van der Borgt
>Not quite the same, but I've booked a =8099 first class ticket for the
>following:
>London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
This was from a PC located in the UK, I presume? I'm asking because
someone recently said to me that DB were blocking online booking these
Europa-Spezial tickets from a UK IP address.
Regards,
Rian
--
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdb...@evonet.be www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Phil Richards
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:20:11 -0800 (PST), EE507 wrote:
>> Not quite the same, but I've booked a =8099 first class ticket for the
>> following:
>> London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
>> Dresden Hbf 22:12
>
> This was from a PC located in the UK, I presume? I'm asking because
> someone recently said to me that DB were blocking online booking these
> Europa-Spezial tickets from a UK IP address.
Which is probably illegal under EU trading laws.
--
Phil Richards, London, UK
3,600+ railway photos since 1980 at:
http://europeanrail.fotopic.net
http://britishrail.fotopic.net
EE507
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:20:11 -0800 (PST), EE507 wrote:
> >Not quite the same, but I've booked a =8099 first class ticket for the
> >following:
> >London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
> >Dresden Hbf 22:12
>
> This was from a PC located in the UK, I presume? I'm asking because
> someone recently said to me that DB were blocking online booking these
> Europa-Spezial tickets from a UK IP address.
Yes. There was also some confusion about differences caused by English
and German language settings (see earlier in this thread).
Neil Williams
<philri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Which is probably illegal under EU trading laws.
And notoriously imprecise.
If they want to do that and it is "above board" to do so, why not just
refuse to deliver to the UK? (I recall these can't be e-ticketed
because of E*).
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
Lüko Willms
van der Borgt) auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> >Not quite the same, but I've booked a =8099 first class ticket for the
> >following:
> >London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
> >Dresden Hbf 22:12
>
> This was from a PC located in the UK, I presume? I'm asking because
> someone recently said to me that DB were blocking online booking these
> Europa-Spezial tickets from a UK IP address.
Why should they? Why do you think there is a DB booking centre in
Britain and the website <http://www.bahn.co.uk>?
Originally the London Special was available only for trips
originating in Germany, but that restriction has fallen a couple of
months ago.
The only real restriction is that the Brussels - Aachen or Aachen -
Brussels piece is done in an ICE. And availability is of course
subject to ...
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Phil Richards
> Am Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:47:22 UTC, schrieb rvdb...@evonet.be (Rian
> van der Borgt) auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
>
>>> Not quite the same, but I've booked a =8099 first class ticket for the
>>> following:
>>> London St. Pancras I Do, 19.03.2009 08:34
>>> Dresden Hbf 22:12
>> This was from a PC located in the UK, I presume? I'm asking because
>> someone recently said to me that DB were blocking online booking these
>> Europa-Spezial tickets from a UK IP address.
>
> Why should they? Why do you think there is a DB booking centre in
> Britain and the website <http://www.bahn.co.uk>?
>
> Originally the London Special was available only for trips
> originating in Germany, but that restriction has fallen a couple of
> months ago.
Possibly because it would be in competition with what Eurostar UK offer.
As that fare is not part of the UK range, DB (UK) may not be allowed to
sell it via it's own call centre as part of its sale agreement with E*.
> The only real restriction is that the Brussels - Aachen or Aachen -
> Brussels piece is done in an ICE. And availability is of course
> subject to ...
Which is fine as it is a combined E*/ICE only fare. The issue I think is
the politics behind how E* sell different sets of fares to different
markets both in Europe and around the world.
Lüko Willms
<philri...@blueyonder.co.uk> auf misc.transport.rail.europe :
> Possibly because it would be in competition with what Eurostar UK offer.
> As that fare is not part of the UK range, DB (UK) may not be allowed to
> sell it via it's own call centre as part of its sale agreement with E*.
Eurostar Group Ltd does not sell thru tickets to stations in
Germany, do they? OTOH, I don't see the "London Spezial" advertised
ont he pages of <www.bahn.co.uk>. But they have only recently removed
the recommendation to change at Brussels into a CNL to Hamburg or
Berlin.
> > The only real restriction is that the Brussels - Aachen or Aachen -
> > Brussels piece is done in an ICE. And availability is of course
> > subject to ...
>
> Which is fine as it is a combined E*/ICE only fare. The issue I think is
> the politics behind how E* sell different sets of fares to different
> markets both in Europe and around the world.
Well, that meant until a few months ago that DB could sell their
"London Spezial" only for trips originating in Germany. A ticket
London - Germany was available only as part of a return trip Germany -
London. Thus, the old "London Spezial" was useless for Brits
travelling outwards to Germany, except if they ventured to buy the
return separately as a "London Spezial", e.g. from Cologne or
Frankfurt to London.
So, obviously, DB has made new arrangements with Eurostar. As far as
I know, Eurostar does not really suffer from regular overbooking, when
not even the full fleet of "Three Capitals" trainsets is in service...
BTW, the "London Spezial" old style was available only from Cologne
or Frankfurt, completely with the ICE from there to Brussels. Now it
can be nearly any German city, provided that an ICE is used between
the border and Brussels. Thalys does not apply...
Cheers,
L.W.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
EE507
>
> Right, after many hours of tinkering I've finally managed to book a
> ticket, and I think I understand the quirks of DB's system. As part of
> a Plzen to Sussex journey, I've bought a Furth im Wald to London first
> class ticket for EURO 102.50 (inc EURO 3.50 postage, not that it actually
> costs that, but never mind).
>
> Firstly, I found connections to Frankfurt, then onto ICE 14 as above.
> Green tick for availability (no availability of EURO 49 second class)...
> through to booking... enter payment details... then, oops, the system
> stated it couldn't make a reservation on the compulsory reservation
> leg i.e. Eurostar. At this point I was ready to throw a brick at the
> screen or, even worse, turn to easyJet.
>
> Not wishing to be a climate criminal, I 'changed details' and inserted
> a 90 minute wait at Brussels Midi. Yes, of all the places to spend 2
> hours, it has to be Midi. Anyway, this worked: an unnecessary delay of
> 53 minutes, but saves me the trouble of finding food and booking an
> expensive E* single.
OK, here we go with a trip report while it's all fresh in my mind.
Plzen 07:00 rt R 350 754027 to Furth im Wald
Nürnberg 10:09 -1 218467 forward; ČD compo stock
Plzen hl. n. is a fascinating place to observe railway operations,
with three long island platforms, each divided into two sections
thanks to Cambridge-style scissors crossings. Passengers use barrow
crossings (!) and there seems to be an element of Swiss-type hub
operation, with almost every bit of platform space occupied for short
periods, maximising connectional opportunities.
I asked for a ticket to Furth im Wald and was issued with one to FiW
Grenze - cost 99 CZK, or about £3. Haulage was courtesy of an
overhauled 754 'Goggles' diesel loco on load 4. I found a comfy 6-
seater second class compo near the front of the train, and settled
down for a very pleasant journey through the snow-covered countryside
to the German border. The gripper asked to see my onward ticket from
FiW, although I hadn't been asked to show it at the ticket office. I
assume a ticket to Furth im Wald (proper) is more expensive?
At FiW I leapt out for some pics of the rabbit provided for onward
traction, with a kolomna and the 'goggles' posing alongside. I then
sat at the very front of the train in an air conditioned first class
compo - more legroom but otherwise slightly less comfortable than
second class! Not much more to report, other than an ALEX loco on shed
at Schwandorf.
At Nürnberg I had a look at the departure sheets to identify
potentially interesting ICs, having failed to bring any gen with me.
The 10:20 to München duly produced 103245 on a rake of 5 standard IC
vehicles. Marvellous to see in 2009, and it's refreshing to be able to
take photos at a major station with no hassle.
Nürnberg 11:00 rt ICE 722 ICE-3
Frankfurt Hbf 13:05 +4
Sadly no more loco haulage, but first class ICE is a rather fine way
to travel. I found a solo airline seat and read for a while.
Complimentary items are limited to newspapers and occasional Ferrero
Rocher (Herr Mehdorn, you are really spoiling us...). For about 20
minutes there was a spell of self-important mobile phone
conversations, all beginning with the classic "Ich bin im Zug...", but
the journey was pleasant enough. Checked outside Frankfurt Hbf, making
me feel at home.
Only 20 mins to kill this time, so a quick search for 110s was
conducted with no success. My next train was a double ICE, with
portions for Amsterdam and Brussels.
Frankfurt Hbf 13:29 rt ICE 14 ICE-3
Bruxelles Midi 16:53 +2 Filthy windows
My set was a particularly scruffy one externally, but cleanliness is
the least of DB's worries with these trains at the moment! All bar
four first class seats were reserved, mostly from Koeln to Brussels,
but I found a forward-facing table seat in the non quiet coach. Just
as well, as I intended to use the laptop to type up some meeting notes
for a few hours. I ordered the red cabbage soup (tasty!) to keep me
going, with a couple more Ferrero Rocher coming my way later on. No
internet access that my laptop could detect (although my laptop has
problems with connecting - Vista is a disaster).
A large number of no shows for all those reserved seats - EURO 4 is
clearly no deterrent for expense account travellers. Time really flew
- it's a great working environment - and we were soon on the tortuous
but beautiful section of classic line around Verviers, then climbing
out of Liege and finally into Midi. At this point I gave a moment's
thought to trying to sweet talk my way onto my preferred E* at 17:59 -
it had been green-ticked while trying to book online after all. I
thought better of it, and naturally the priority was then to get out
of Midi at the earliest opportunity.
Now the good news is that Midi plays host to loco-hauled trains all
day, and they become most interesting in the peaks, at least for a
while longer. To cut to the chase, I did 2301 to Central and 1601 from
there to Nord, where I remained for about 45 minutes. I then returned
to Midi on a unit.
Swiftly through E* check in at 18:29 (no point going sooner), with
boarding from 18:39.
Bruxelles Midi 18:59 rt EST 9157
London St. Pancras 19:56 +9
Leisure select was lightly loaded, enabling me to switch to a forward-
facing seat with moderate alignment, and food was served about 20 mins
after Lille. I assume this is normal practice but I was rather hungry
by then. We lost time during the dwell at Lille, and perhaps another
30-60 seconds at the English end of the tunnel (transit time 20 mins),
but I'm not sure how a full 9 mins had been squandered.
Out of St. Pancras E* in about 2 minutes, but one inevitably compares
the labyrinth here with the ease of egress at Gare du Nord. Onto the
Northern Line, arriving at London Bridge main concourse 6 mins after
my train had departed. The Central side platforms resembled carriage
sidings, with at least one stabled unit in every platform. The 20:54
to VIC was on top of the 20:58, so doors were not released on the
latter until the former had departed - a pain given the volume of pax
wanting on.
London Bridge (20:28) missed 20:58 rt 4.377 - called
additionally at
Brighton (21:26) 21:55 +5 Redhill.
Wedged to ECR. The CIS there announced we would be calling at Redhill
(no mention of that at LBG) - apparently in reaction to yet another
suicide on the BML earlier in the day. Small compensation for this
came in the form of the relatively unusual down slow to down fast move
at Earlswood. 7 late at TBD with 2 clawed back by Brighton - it could
have been more, but we were checked and 'called on' to the top of
platform 8 at Brighton.
Sprinted round to platform 1 to find no driver for the 22:03, so I
gave up on further rail haulage and went to find a bus, eventually
arriving home exactly one hour later than if I had made the 20:28.
A shame it had to end like that, as I greatly enjoyed the trip:
traditional haulage (the best bit in fact) with a swift and efficient,
no-fuss loco change, ICE sophistication, breaks long enough to stretch
the legs and indulge in photography, and a meal (eventually) on the
Eurostar.
If the DB booking engine quirks can be sorted, and Thalys comes to be
regarded as complementary rather than a competitor to the ICE, then
rail will offer a serious alternative to the grim business of flying
to certain destinations these days.
Ulf Kutzner
> At Nürnberg I had a look at the departure sheets to identify
> potentially interesting ICs, having failed to bring any gen with me.
> The 10:20 to München duly produced 103245 on a rake of 5 standard IC
> vehicles. Marvellous to see in 2009, and it's refreshing to be able to
> take photos at a major station with no hassle.
> Nürnberg 11:00 rt ICE 722 ICE-3
> Frankfurt Hbf 13:05 +4
> Sadly no more loco haulage, but first class ICE is a rather fine way
> to travel. I found a solo airline seat and read for a while.
> Complimentary items are limited to newspapers and occasional Ferrero
> Rocher (Herr Mehdorn, you are really spoiling us...). For about 20
> minutes there was a spell of self-important mobile phone
> conversations, all beginning with the classic "Ich bin im Zug...", but
> the journey was pleasant enough. Checked outside Frankfurt Hbf, making
> me feel at home.
> Only 20 mins to kill this time, so a quick search for 110s was
> conducted with no success. My next train was a double ICE, with
> portions for Amsterdam and Brussels.
using most ICE trains NL -> D from mid-June to mid-August.
"Travelling with ICE International summer 2023
During the period from 17 June to 18 August 2023, Eurail and Interrail
travellers cannot use the ICE International trains towards Germany with
departure times between 6am - 4pm from a station in the Netherlands.
Even with a separate seat reservation, travel on these trains is not allowed
for Eurail and Interrail travellers during the specified period.
We unfortunately have to take these measures to avoid situations like last
summer and offer every traveller a comfortable journey. Interrail and Eurail
travellers for destinations to southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland should
alternatively use Intercity Berlin and then change in Münster. For destinations
in the Ruhr region, travellers should use the regional connections."
https://www.nsinternational.com/en/global-train-passes/discover-europe-by-using-interrail