Re: Another stupid Cityrail decision
C. Dewick
>Matthew Geier <mat...@no.sleeper.no.apana.no.org.no.au> wrote:
>> I went yesterday to renew my travel pass ticket (some $500ish) only to
>> find that about 2 weeks ago Cityrail HQ sent a memo to all stations
>> banning the acceptance of debit cards, thus leaving me in the difficult
>> station that I couldn't pay, as for years now I have only had a Visa
>> Debit card instead of a Credit card. No where else were Visa is accepted
>> have I been told the Debit version is unacceptable. I don't think most
>> shop assistants even notice, they just see the big Visa logo and go from
>> there.
>The Visa card is a credit card, even if it is also a debit card.
>The ban on debit cards would be a ban on paying from a savings or cheque
>account via EFTPOS, not a ban on paying via *credit*, which is what
>happens when you use the credit card and press the "credit" button on the
>EFTPOS terminal, or simply put it through as a credit card transaction.
So in other words, Railcorp is refusing to accepting payments for long-term
tickets using anything other than 'credit', which would be something related
to the insurance and financial liability aspects I suspect. . So what
Matthew said is correct as he probably does not have a credit facility
attached to his bank account, and can only pay using *existing* funds pulled
from his savings balance using the 'savings' option on an EFTPOS console.
In effect, RailCorp is going to deny access to paying for season/period
tickets from people who do not have a credit card facility, which is rather
lame and stupid and very typical of the NSW government.
Craig.
--
Craig Dewick -- HO-Scale Railway Modeller, Experienced Train/Locomotive Driver
Web: http://www.flickr.com/photos/navarzo http://lios.apana.org.au/~craigd
Location: Adelaide Web: http://www.railzone.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=125
Email: cra...@posion.lios.apana.org.au or craig....@poison.gmail.com
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
>
>So in other words, Railcorp is refusing to accepting payments for long-term
>tickets using anything other than 'credit', which would be something related
>to the insurance and financial liability aspects I suspect. . So what
>Matthew said is correct as he probably does not have a credit facility
>attached to his bank account, and can only pay using *existing* funds pulled
>from his savings balance using the 'savings' option on an EFTPOS console.
This seems really bizzare, at least from my Canadian point of view. It is
usually the other way around here, mainly due to service fees.
Here, the banks typically charge about 3% on credit transaction, while they
charge a small flat fee of 15 to 25 cents per debit transaction.
Our local transit operator (YRT/VIVA) accepted credit, debit, and cash when
they first opened automated terminals for the VIVA bus system in the fall of
2005, but stopped accepting credit cards within 6 months. (To be accurate,
debit has only been accepted at "multi" terminal where passes and tickets
can be purchased - all other terminals only sell single rides). Purchasing
a monthly pass for $105 costs them a small fee for debit, but over $3 for
credit.
Getting back to Cityrail - it really pissed me off last year when I was
returning to the airport only to find that the fare was a couple of dollars
less than the minimum for using a credit card. Understandable, if it were
not for the fact that there was no such minimum at the airport when
heading into the city! If they told me, I would have purchased both at the
same time at the airport.
--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Unusual or extreme reactions to events caused by negligence
are imaginable, but not reasonably foreseeable"
- Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin, May 2008
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Matthew Geier
>
> Well, I re-read what Matthew said, and he clearly said that it is a Visa
> Debit card. That makes it a "credit card". If it's a Visa card, it
> will *always* be able to be used using the "credit" button on an EFTPOS
> terminal. That is how all Visa cards, including Visa Debit, work. It's
> likely that the railcorp don't understand that.
My Visa debit card is not marked 'Electronic transactions only'. This is
no justification for Railcorp declining to accept it.
>
> I suspect that Visa would have something to say about the situation if
> it was brought to their attention, as would almost any NSW opposition MP
> or MLC.
Visa Australia list all their products on their web site - including a
the 'debit' card which states that it 'can be used where ever the Visa
Logo is displayed'. But they have no contact information. If they did, I
would point out that their advertising was false - a major Sydney
merchant is not accept their product making the advertising claim false.
I ran my bank who's reply was 'we have no control over what the merchant
may or may not accept'. Basically they were not interested. The person I
spoke to was rather surprised that Railcorp would decline to accept their
Visa product, but they said there was nothing they could do about it.
The Railcorp PR bod who rang me, completely failed to understand the
difference between a debit card and a EFT card that HAS to be online
transacted. Australian banks stopped accepting offline EFTPOS about 25
years ago.
C. Dewick
>Well, I re-read what Matthew said, and he clearly said that it is a Visa
>Debit card. That makes it a "credit card". If it's a Visa card, it will
>*always* be able to be used using the "credit" button on an EFTPOS terminal.
>That is how all Visa cards, including Visa Debit, work. It's likely that the
>railcorp don't understand that.
No it won't. Unless there is actually a credit facility linked to the card
(ie. a seperate credit card account), or the savings account in question has
an overdraft facility (not all do), then it is NOT a credit card and you
will find a lot of VIsa 'debit' cards are set up so that they cannot be used
with the 'credit' button on an ETFPOS terminal and some of the smarter
EFTPOS terminals don't even provide the 'credit' function as an option with
those cards. Dunno if Matthew's card is set up like that but he says it's a
debit card not a credit card, so the assumption is 'credit' will not work.
>I suspect that Visa would have something to say about the situation if it
>was brought to their attention, as would almost any NSW opposition MP or MLC.
On that point i completely agree. We don't have the Olympic games here, and
even then I don't understand how Visa could be the 'only accepted card' at
the olympics. Have to be just a programming config thing to block
transactions from working using other cards. Sort of like what RailCorp is
claiming to have done by declining the use of debit cards for long-term
ticket payments.
Craig
Kevin Martin
>
> The Railcorp PR bod who rang me, completely failed to understand the
> difference between a debit card and a EFT card that HAS to be online
> transacted. Australian banks stopped accepting offline EFTPOS about 25
> years ago.
Instead of keep saying the same thing over & over again (in the ever
increasing number of NG's) why not write to the relevant Minister, or
better still if they are of the Opposition party, your local MP, with
your concerns.
Kevin Martin
Matthew Geier
>
> No it won't. Unless there is actually a credit facility linked to the
> card (ie. a seperate credit card account), or the savings account in
> question has an overdraft facility (not all do), then it is NOT a credit
> card and you will find a lot of VIsa 'debit' cards are set up so that
> they cannot be used with the 'credit' button on an ETFPOS terminal and
> some of the smarter EFTPOS terminals don't even provide the 'credit'
> function as an option with those cards.
Such a card is marked 'Electronic Transaction Only' according to Visa,
and they give those to people who have poor credit histories who would
other wise not get a Visa branded card. The cards also contain an
electronic tag to force the terminal to online-validate even if the
transaction is below the 'floor limit' that it would otherwise just off-
line approve the transaction, presumably to prevent such a card holder
forcing their account into overdraft. (FAQ off Visa Australia's site)
There is no point to such a card in Australia due to our well developed
and accepted EFTPOS system.
I actually have an EFTPOS card linked to the SAME account as the Visa
card. (There is a longish story why I have two different cards that
access the same pile of cash).
Thinking about it, when was the last time you went into any a shop of
any size and it DIDN'T have a EFT terminal ? Even my local corner store
has one. He charges you 50c extra for using it, but he has one.
That an organisation as large as Cityrail doesn't even have all it's
major stations equipped with even one terminal is just plain backward.
30 years after the introduction of EFTPOS in Australia, Cityrail is
'trialling' it at a couple of CBD stations.
Matthew Geier
> Getting back to Cityrail - it really pissed me off last year when I was
> returning to the airport only to find that the fare was a couple of
> dollars less than the minimum for using a credit card. Understandable,
> if it were not for the fact that there was no such minimum at the
> airport when heading into the city! If they told me, I would have
> purchased both at the same time at the airport.
The airport stations are not run by Cityrail, so they would have their
own banking arrangements and transaction rules.
As for the ticket - the Cityrail ticketing system is not capable of
issuing single tickets for use on a different day from issue. Unless you
were returning to the airport on the same day, they would not have been
able to help you anyway.
There is a useful 'loophole' in the airport ticketing rules. My
periodical (the ticket issue that started this thread), is valid on the
airport line route but not at the stations as they have a 'station access
fee'. The stations sell a 'gate pass' to cover this situation.
It turns out a weekly is cheaper than two 'single' gate-passes. On a
couple of occasions now, when I knew I would be back in a few days (say a
weekend away), I've bough a weekly gate-pass instead - and only used it
twice - one to get out of the station and to my plane, then again to get
back into the station when I was returning home a couple of days later.
The extreme disparity in prices is to encourage airport employees to
commute by train I presume.
This trick probably doesn't work if you don't already have a ticket
valid for the route - although if you were visiting Sydney for a few days
and were not really leaving the CBD area that a 'city' ticket covers
(Central, Nth Sydney, Kings Cross) a city weekly MIGHT be worth your
while, but probably not.
JimK
"Matthew Geier" <mat...@no.sleeper.no.apana.no.org.no.au> wrote in message
news:49b570e1$0$32004$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:52:35 -0500, Calvin Henry-Cotnam wrote:
>
>
>> Getting back to Cityrail - it really pissed me off last year when I was
>> returning to the airport only to find that the fare was a couple of
>> dollars less than the minimum for using a credit card. Understandable,
>> if it were not for the fact that there was no such minimum at the
>> airport when heading into the city! If they told me, I would have
>> purchased both at the same time at the airport.
>
> The airport stations are not run by Cityrail, so they would have their
> own banking arrangements and transaction rules.
As per contract, their transaction rules are the same as Cityrail.