CO/WY/NM crew change points?
Ken Stitzel
Dear Knowledgeable Fans,
One of my easterly buddies is coming to Colorado for some extensive
railfanning this spring. His perigrinations may take him into
neighboring parts of Wyoming and New Mexico, possibly Nebraska or
Kansas, too. Don't know if he's going to range all the way up to
PRB coal country or west into Utah.
He likes to check out places where railroads do crew changes and put
on helpers, etc. I guess he's got a point because all the trains stop
at such places.
Here is what I think I know about some of the crew districts and
helper districts in and around Colorado. Anything north of Cheyenne WY
or south of Pueblo, CO, I don't know much about. Feel free to fill in
anything I'm missing. Thanks in advance for your help.
BNSF crew changes:
* Denver east: used to be in Akron, CO, but I think they moved it all
the way out to McCook, NE.
* Denver northeast: Sterling, CO? Then Alliance, NE?
* Denver north: Cheyenne, WY, then .
* Denver west (UP trackage rights): do they go all the way to Grand
Junction or do they change at Bond again like UP does?
* Denver south: Pueblo
* Pueblo south: Trinidad? Raton, NM???
* Pueblo east: ???
UP crew changes:
* Denver east: no idea...
* Denver south: Pueblo
* Denver west: Bond, then Grand Junction
* Denver north: Cheyenne
* Pueblo south: same as BNSF, presumably
* Cheyenne east: North Platte
* Cheyenne west: Rawlins (Green River for hotshots?), then Ogden?
Helper Districts:
Between the closing of Tennessee Pass and the use of remote units, I'm
not sure there are any permanent helper districts anymore. Here are
some places I know they run helpers at least occassionally:
* BNSF/UP: Denver to Palmer Lake
* BNSF/UP: Denver to Winter Park (Does BNSF use helpers?)
* UP east from Grand Junction??? (I've heard about helpers living in
Tabernash but don't know if that's a permanent thing or not.)
--
Ken Stitzel (k...@fc.hp.com)
Learning Products Engineer (tech writer with functional enhancements)
Hewlett-Packard Company (a pretty cool company to work for)
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
(Opinions stated herein are provided without warranty and are not
representative of official or unofficial HP policy on crew/helper
help. ;-)
vlbg
Ken:
I think I can fill in some of these.
VLBG
<snip>
>
> BNSF crew changes:
> * Denver east: used to be in Akron, CO, but I think they moved it all
> the way out to McCook, NE.
Yes, McCook, then Lincoln.
> * Denver northeast: Sterling, CO? Then Alliance, NE?
Sterling, then Guernsey for most trains, Alliance
then Edgemont, Gillette, Sheridan if they are going that way.
> * Denver north: Cheyenne, WY, then .
Then Casper and Greybull. During April many coal mtys will go
via Cheyenne to the Orin line while the tunnel west of Guernsey
is being day lighted.
> * Denver west (UP trackage rights): do they go all the way to Grand
> Junction or do they change at Bond again like UP does?
I thought it was Phippsburg not Bond but could be wrong.
> * Denver south: Pueblo
> * Pueblo south: Trinidad? Raton, NM???
If going via the old C&S/FW&D its Trinidad, Texline, Amarillo,
then Wichita Falls.
If going via C&S to Trinidad and then ATSF it would be a
C&S crew to Trinidad, then ATSF crew to Raton then Albuquerque.
> * Pueblo east: ???
La Junta then Dodge City if going to Kansas City
La Junta then Amarillo if going to Texas or New Mexico.
Except AMADEN & DENAMA also change at Boise City because they
do local work.
>
> UP crew changes:
> * Denver east: no idea...
> * Denver south: Pueblo
> * Denver west: Bond, then Grand Junction
> * Denver north: Cheyenne
> * Pueblo south: same as BNSF, presumably
No, only one crew Pueblo to Dalhart. This is via La Junta,
they can't go via Trinidad. About 50/50 on one crew
actually making it. (Trains that continue to Ft Worth change
next at Childress but the Dalhart to Childress and Childress
to Ft Worth segments are also over ambitious.)
> * Cheyenne east: North Platte
> * Cheyenne west: Rawlins (Green River for hotshots?), then Ogden?
>
> Helper Districts:
>
> Between the closing of Tennessee Pass and the use of remote units, I'm
> not sure there are any permanent helper districts anymore. Here are
> some places I know they run helpers at least occassionally:
>
> * BNSF/UP: Denver to Palmer Lake
UP is Distributive Power only.
BNSF is all trains over 8000 tons and some under that.
No distributive power. Helpers cut off at Palmer Lake
or Colorado Springs (Grain trains).
> * BNSF/UP: Denver to Winter Park (Does BNSF use helpers?)
Yes BNSF uses helpers if they cant meet the UP HP per Ton
requirements. (Which I don't happen to remember.)
Steve Holmes
Ken Stitzel wrote:
>
> Dear Knowledgeable Fans,
>
> One of my easterly buddies is coming to Colorado for some extensive
> railfanning this spring. His perigrinations may take him into
> neighboring parts of Wyoming and New Mexico, possibly Nebraska or
> Kansas, too. Don't know if he's going to range all the way up to
> PRB coal country or west into Utah.
>
> He likes to check out places where railroads do crew changes and put
> on helpers, etc. I guess he's got a point because all the trains stop
> at such places.
>
> Here is what I think I know about some of the crew districts and
> helper districts in and around Colorado. Anything north of Cheyenne WY
> or south of Pueblo, CO, I don't know much about. Feel free to fill in
>
> Dear Knowledgeable Fans,
>
> One of my easterly buddies is coming to Colorado for some extensive
> railfanning this spring. His perigrinations may take him into
> neighboring parts of Wyoming and New Mexico, possibly Nebraska or
> Kansas, too. Don't know if he's going to range all the way up to
> PRB coal country or west into Utah.
>
> He likes to check out places where railroads do crew changes and put
> on helpers, etc. I guess he's got a point because all the trains stop
> at such places.
>
> Here is what I think I know about some of the crew districts and
> helper districts in and around Colorado. Anything north of Cheyenne WY
> or south of Pueblo, CO, I don't know much about. Feel free to fill in
> anything I'm missing. Thanks in advance for your help.
If I'm wrong, the UP guys will probably weigh in, but on the Overland
Route east of Cheyenne, I believe the closest crew change points are in
North Platte and Fremont, Nebraska and in Boone, Iowa. I threw in
Fremont and Boone in case he's driving that way, or in case wanderlust
takes him east the same way my "as long as I'm in the neighborhood"
reasoning got me to Albuquerque when I'd only planned on going as far
southwest as Denver.
Don't forget BNSF's Southwest Chief line. Is La Junta the closest crew
change point?
--
Steve Holmes, Steve Holmes Productions
(helping companies communicate through award-winning video)
Iowa City, IA, USA
http://www.shpvideo.com
My address: sigerson "at" inav "dot" net (replace "" words with
symbols)
Michael Griffith
> > * Cheyenne west: Rawlins (Green River for hotshots?)
I thought I read that UP phased out Rawlins, and all trains go through
to Green River from Cheyenne. No? You there, Mr. Lee?
Mike G
Rick Steele
No, Rawlins is still a crew change point for all trains 50 mph and less.
(At least it was when I was there last week)
Rick Steele
Rick Steele
Ken Stitzel wrote:
>
>
> UP crew changes:
> * Denver east: no idea...
Sharon Springs, Kansas (It used to be Oakley)
> * Denver south: Pueblo
> * Denver west: Bond, then Grand Junction
> * Denver north: Cheyenne
> * Pueblo south: same as BNSF, presumably
> * Cheyenne east: North Platte
> * Cheyenne west: Rawlins (Green River for hotshots?), then Ogden?
Correct on the Rawlins/Green River crew change. Ogden, Salt Lake City
or Pocatello is after Green River. Tell your friend that all trains
stop in Rawlins, as the Main Line Fuel Rack is located there.
Rick Steele
Ken Stitzel
Michael Griffith (sy...@uwyo.edu) wrote:
: > > * Cheyenne west: Rawlins (Green River for hotshots?)
: I thought I read that UP phased out Rawlins, and all trains go through
: to Green River from Cheyenne. No? You there, Mr. Lee?
No, I think Rawlins is still very much used for everything but
"shooters" (hotshots), which go all the way to Green River without a
change. Someone emailed this info to me. I imagine the Lee-miester is
a busy camper these days, like everybody on UP.
Thanks to all the responses so far--both here in the newsgroup and via
email. I'll try to compile the info and post it here again for
everyone to double-check.
There really are some Knowledgeable Fans out there. Thanks again,
everyone!
--
Ken Stitzel (k...@fc.hp.com)
Learning Products Engineer (tech writer with functional enhancements)
HP-UX Development Lab (UNIX=HP)
Hewlett-Packard Company (a pretty cool company to work for)
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA (somewhere east of Masonville)
(Opinions stated herein are provided without warranty and are not
representative of official or unofficial HP policy on shooter
crew changes.... ;-)
Kirk A. Petty
Kenny,
I believe the crew change point on the ex-KP east of Denver is Oakley
KS. I have a friend who was in the same brakeman class as myself who
became an engineer out of Oakley. He said they were seldom able to make
the trip within their allowed 12 hours of service and often needed to ge
"dogcatched." (dogcaught?) I would think with the continuing upgrading
of this line it shouldn't be a problem. The block signals were ripped
out in the 1980's, and I believe after being dark for several years
welded rail and CTC are coming that way. As far as from Denver to
points NW on the UP, my guess is that crew changes take place at
Rawlins (one of the few changes that take place there now that crews now
run from Cheyenne to Green River).
I'm sure Rick Steele could correct me, but that's my guess!
--
Kirk Petty
ABC Sign Products
kpe...@psd.k12.co.us
kpe...@abcsignproducts.com
http://www.abcsignproducts.com
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Cozephyr
UP's Kansas Pacific line crew change east of Denver is Sharon Springs, KS.
Yup, you're right about the crews never making it that far. The crew hauling
contractor is doing a booming business.
Good day,
The Colorado Zephyr
WPDiven
Greetings:
BNSF changes C&S-line crews at a terminal north of Trinidad just off I-25 and
on the ex-ATSF at the Raton depot, the first grade crossing west of the Las
Vegas depot and the Albuquerque yard west of the Amtrak station.
Raton-Trinidad remains a helper district especially for coal and grain trains
with crewed power at both ends.
Regards,
Bill