Extinct diesels
Christopher Kevin Balducci
Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones have no
surviving units?
Chris B.
USM
Cliff Downey
Wow, where to begin?
This list was compiled by looking through "The Second Diesel Spotter's
Guide". In diesel's early days, numerous one-of-a-kind experimental
units were built, and most were scrapped within a few years. This list
doesn't attempt to record units of this type, but rather "mass produced"
units.
EMD
-- Model T Only one built (IC 9201, renumbered 9202, scrapped 1950)
-- NW4 Two built for MP, scrapped after 1959
-- TR1A, TR1B Two sets built for IC, traded to EMD in 1966
-- GP7B, 5 built for AT&SF
-- GP9B, 40 for PRR, 110 for UP. All of the PRR's have been scrapped,
while some of the UP's were rebuilt with cabs by ICG. Some of the UP
GP9B's may also have been rebuilt as slugs for UP, but I believe all
ofthese have been scrapped.
-- GP30B, 40 built for UP, all traded or sold for scrap
-- GP40X This is the original GP40X, built in 1965 as a test bed, sold
to the IC, then wrecked and rebuilt as a "GP35.5" in the mid-1970's, and
finally scrapped c.1992-93
-- SD24B 45 built for UP. Some were rebuilt with cabs as UP SD20's
-- DD35B 30 built for UP and SP
-- DD35A 15 built for UP
-- F2A/B 74 units with cabs, 30 without.
-- EA, EB, E1A, E1B, E2A, E2B (some rosters say that these early units
were rebuilt into E8's and E9's. However, this was purely an accounting
procedure)
-- E4A (14) , E4B (5) Built only for SAL
-- E5B, E6B, E7B
GE
-- Bi- and tri-power boxcab units
-- "Model Y" 10 built, all for New Haven
-- 1800 and 2000hp Transfer units built for IC (one of each)
-- UM20B. Two cab units and two boosters which served as test beds
-- U25C and U28C? I am not aware of any in museums or rusting away in
scrap yards
-- U28CG 10 units built for AT&SF. Essentially U28C's equipped with
steam generators
-- U50 26 units built for UP
-- U50C 40 units built for UP
-- Turbines 2 experimental units built 1939 for UP, one test bed built
for UP (numbered 50 and later GE 101), UP 51-60, UP 61-75, and UP 1-30.
These relied on turbines to turn the main generator, but they did have
small diesel engines for use when hostling
ALCo
-- Black Maria test beds of 1941 (two cab units, two boosters)
--0900 Predecessor of the HH600/660/900/1000 Only one built, sold to
New Haven
-- RSC2 (70 built) and RSC3 (19 built) ?? I'm not aware of any in
museums. hopefully I'm wrong
-- DH-643 Three units built for SP
-- C855 Two cab units built for UP
-- C855B One booster unit built for UP
-- DL109
-- DL110 Booster version of Dl109
-- PA2
-- PB2 (D&RGW rebuilt a PB1 into a steam generator car. It is still in
service, but is used as a HEP car and no longer has a steam generator)
BALDWIN
-- AS616B
-- DT6-6-20, RT-624 (massive centercabs)
-- DRS-12-8-1500/2 Centipede
-- DR6-4-20, DR6-4-20B Some were "Babyfaces", other were "Sharks" CNJ
had six double-cab versions
-- DR6-2-10 "Babyface" Built with a baggage compartment where the #2
engine would be
-- DR6-4-15 and DR6-4-15B "Babyface" units for NYC and SAL
-- DR4-4-15 and DR4-4-15B Some were "Babyfaces", other were "Sharks"
-- "Train X" power car
-- Coal fired steam turbines for C&O (3) and N&W (the "Jawn Henry")
I'm certain there are other Baldwin models that are extinct,
especially switcher models
FAIRBANKS-MORSE
-- H24-66 "Trainmaster"
-- "Erie Builts" 83 cab units and 28 boosters were built by GE at Erie,
PA, under subcontract to F-M between 1945 and 1949 (until 1949, F-M did
not have its own locomotive plant). These locomotives were marketed as
F-M locomotives, but were also assigned GE builder's numbers
-- CPA-20-5
-- CPA-24-5
-- CPA-16-5
-- CPB-16-5
-- P-12-42 Four units built, two for Boston & Maine, two for New Haven
Again, I'm certain that other FM models, especially switchers, are gone
Additions and/or corrections would be welcome.
Cliff Downey
cdo...@mursuky.campus.mci.net
Phillips, III J. A.
Here's my guess for today: Baldwin's Centipedes
Anyone confirm or deny that?
JPhillips
Phillips, III J. A.
Whoops, second guess- U50s
JP
Phillips, III J. A.
Ok Ok Third Guess- Kraus Maffeis
JP
Steven F Kraus
PA/PB2's are shown as extinct. What about PA/B-3's? Any of those around?
We'll count the ex-D&H (ATSF) PA's as both PA-1's and "PA-4's", but what
about PB-1's?
I thought there was a Train Master in Canada.
Steven F Kraus
Big Blow 18 is at Illinois Railway Museum, Union, IL
The Larch
On 5 Jun 1996 18:16:39 GMT, Christopher Kevin Balducci proclaimed for all to see:
> Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones have no
> surviving units?
A few off the top of my head:
any Baldwin engine with the baby-face carbody
GE P30CH (Amtrak engines)
GE U30CG (Santa Fe cowl engine)
Fred
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, cdo...@mursuky.campus.mci.net (Cliff Downey) says:
>cbal...@whale.st.usm.edu (Christopher Kevin Balducci) wrote:
>>Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones have no
>>surviving units?
In the absence of official records or photos of units being cut up,
it's hard to "prove" the extinction of a locomotive model. Back around
1976, Extra 2200 South printed a full color shot someone had sent in of an
FM P-12-42, still in full Boston & Maine colors, being used as a stationary
generator at an obscure location. This was long after all these units had
presumably been scrapped. Unfortunately, the photographer reported that the
units (both BM engines were there) were liable to be cut up soon as the land
they were on had been sold. This was about 20 years ago, and I don't think
either unit was saved. And then there's the case of the ancient Foley
Brothers GE-IR-Alco boxcab diesel that was found rotting in a field a few
years ago, or the EMC "pre-SC" that Cambria & Indiana operated up until a
few years ago (with a 567 under the hood), or the Baldwin Shark B-unit body
that was reported here recently. Presumably vanished units can turn up in
strange places. And if engines are sold to Mexico, all bets are off.
>EMD
>
>-- F2A/B 74 units with cabs, 30 without.
Diesel Locomotive Rosters, 3rd Ed., reported FNM having one F2A a few years
ago. Is that one gone now too? (This is in addition to the FT they also
had.)
>-- EA, EB, E1A, E1B, E2A, E2B (some rosters say that these early units
>were rebuilt into E8's and E9's. However, this was purely an accounting
>procedure)
B&O 51 at the Baltimore museum is an EA, though according to the 2ndDSG
it doesn't have an engine anymore.
>-- E4A (14) , E4B (5) Built only for SAL
Is the one surviving SAL slant-nose E an E3 or an E4?
>GE
>-- Bi- and tri-power boxcab units
>-- "Model Y" 10 built, all for New Haven
>-- 1800 and 2000hp Transfer units built for IC (one of each)
>-- UM20B. Two cab units and two boosters which served as test beds
>-- U25C and U28C? I am not aware of any in museums or rusting away in
>scrap yards
I believe LS&I saved one of their U25C's and put it on display up in
Michigan. I vaguely remember hearing that some shortline had some U28C's
too. And who knows what still survives in deadlines down in Mexico...
>-- U28CG 10 units built for AT&SF. Essentially U28C's equipped with
>steam generators
All the U30CG's are gone too.
>-- Turbines 2 experimental units built 1939 for UP, one test bed built
>for UP (numbered 50 and later GE 101), UP 51-60, UP 61-75, and UP 1-30.
>These relied on turbines to turn the main generator, but they did have
>small diesel engines for use when hostling
At least two of the "Big Blows" (1-30) survive. One is on display next
to the Odgen, UT depot. The other I've had a hard time tracking...Extra 2200
says it went to a museum in Kansas City. That's the museum that later moved
to Belton, MO, and I don't think the turbine is at the new location.
>FAIRBANKS-MORSE
>-- H24-66 "Trainmaster"
One example survives in a museum in Canada.
>-- CPA-20-5
>-- CPA-24-5
>-- CPA-16-5
>-- CPB-16-5
Canada also harbors a pair of C-liners. Somebody on the web has a list
of surviving FMs, but I can never find the darn thing.
>Additions and/or corrections would be welcome.
>
>
>Cliff Downey
>cdo...@mursuky.campus.mci.net
>
>
--
o_II_-__-__-----____________ ---------------- /====================\
I_________I__I I 870 I I I I I I I I oooooo II
/-o--0-0-0-0~~~~~o=o~==~o=o~~~o==o~~~~~~o==o~~~o=o=o~~~~~~~~~~o=o=o~~
Evan Werkem...@uclink4.berkeley.edu-Ship and Travel Santa Fe...All the Way!
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, Whst...@ix.netcom.com (Phillips, III J. A.) says:
>Ok Ok Third Guess- Kraus Maffeis
There's one KM left. SP converted it to a camera car, which kept it around
long after all its counterparts were scrapped. They ultimately donated it
to the California State RR museum. I believe it's currently stored back
by the CSRM's restoration shop in Sacramento along with a whole pile of other
interesting equipment they don't have the $$$ or manpower to restore yet.
MarBau
<<<<<<<<< Subject: Re: Extinct diesels
From: "Phillips, III J. A." <Whst...@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:46:18 -0800
Message-ID: <31B60E...@ix.netcom.com>
Ok Ok Third Guess- Kraus Maffeis
JP>>>>>>>>
SP still has one KM, they use it to film from for their simulators. I
haven't seen it in a long time but then again, X2200So has never listed it
as having been withdrawn and/or scrapped. So I don't know for sure if its
still around.
It was de engined and cut up a bit around the nose.
Mark.
The above thoughts are opinions, flame me for errors in fact but do not
flame me for having an opinion.
Ken Healy
There is a CP Trainmaster at the Canadian Railway Museum at Delson (St.
Constant) Quebec.
Ken
--
Ken Healy
Hudson Leighton
In article <4p52lf$1...@news.campus.mci.net>, Cliff Downey
<cdo...@mursuky.campus.mci.net> wrote:
> cbal...@whale.st.usm.edu (Christopher Kevin Balducci) wrote:
> >Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones have no
> >surviving units?
> >
> > Chris B.
> > USM
>
>
> Wow, where to begin?
>
> This list was compiled by looking through "The Second Diesel Spotter's
> Guide". In diesel's early days, numerous one-of-a-kind experimental
> units were built, and most were scrapped within a few years. This list
> doesn't attempt to record units of this type, but rather "mass produced"
> units.
>
>
>
>
> EMD
> -- E4A (14) , E4B (5) Built only for SAL
What is the E? at Janesville, WI in SAL colors?
>
> ALCo
> -- RSC2 (70 built) and RSC3 (19 built) ?? I'm not aware of any in
> museums. hopefully I'm wrong
There is a RSC? at North Freedom, WI
>
>
> BALDWIN
> -- AS616B
> -- DT6-6-20, RT-624 (massive centercabs)
There is a ex MNS Centercab at Union, IL
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, mar...@aol.com (MarBau) says:
>
>SP still has one KM, they use it to film from for their simulators. I
>haven't seen it in a long time but then again, X2200So has never listed it
>as having been withdrawn and/or scrapped. So I don't know for sure if its
>still around. It was de engined and cut up a bit around the nose.
Check the "Preserved Diesels" lists published in X2200 during Don Dover's
tenure. The camera car is listed in one of them as being donated to CSRM.
Also, I think the engines were retained for ballast. This was reported by
someone who actually got a look at the beast up in Sacramento. I believe
SP now does filming using a standard diesel with a special bracket for the
camera gear.
Dr Track
How about passenger sharks? Didn't see them mentioned.
Or those FT based cow calf sets that the IC had TRs?
The Ingals ship building beast.
The GE cab unit demos that ran in Erie colors and were bought by the UP.
Phillips, III J. A.
I thought about the RF-16 (Baldwin Sharknose) but as I recall the two
off the D&H got traded to some outfit (DM&E?) anyways, some podunk
line in the upper reaches of Minn or Mich--- they may not be running,
but Id bet a whole dollar theyre rusting somewheres
73s JP
Doug Seymour
CD> cbal...@whale.st.usm.edu (Christopher Kevin Balducci)
CD> wrote: >Of all the models of diesel locomotives built,
CD> which ones have no >surviving units? > > Chris B.
CD> > USM
CD> Wow, where to begin?
CD> -- H24-66 "Trainmaster"
Not all of the Trainmasters are gone, although not a Beloit
unit, one of the CP Trainmasters is stored, awaiting final
disposition (Museum or Corporate Display). At present I
believe it is in Montreal, but inaccesable to the general
public.
Doug
* RM 1.31 1905 * My reality check just bounced.
Terrell Shearer
>-- SD24B 45 built for UP. Some were rebuilt with cabs as UP SD20's
Hmm, don't you mean _ICG_ SD20s?
Terry.
WPYR
>Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones
>have no surviving units?<
You can add to the list the Alco RF-1, which was only made for The Alaska
Railroad.
Robert G. Hilton
Demetre Argiro
oc...@yakko.cs.wmich.edu (The Larch) wrote:
>On 5 Jun 1996 18:16:39 GMT, Christopher Kevin Balducci proclaimed for all to see:
>> Of all the models of diesel locomotives built, which ones have no
>> surviving units?
>A few off the top of my head:
>any Baldwin engine with the baby-face carbody
>GE P30CH (Amtrak engines)
>GE U30CG (Santa Fe cowl engine)
>Fred
Well, I read all the posts and I can't believe that everyone missed my
favorite engine of all. There are no surviving DL-109's. There were
less than a hundred of the A's and only 4 B's bult. I believe that
the last one died around 1963. GM&O 271. It had been on the dead
line at EMD for some time then.
Matthew J. Frahm
Sure wasn't DM&E. I'd know about that.
(and DM&E isn't in the upper reaches of MN.)
--
Matthew J. Frahm________________________mailto:mfr...@winternet.com
Stillwater, Minnesota http://www.winternet.com/~mfrahm/
"Bureaucracy, credentialing, taxation, litigation, and regulation. These
are the five great enemies that killed the entrepreneurial spirit."--N.G.
Hudson Leighton
In article <mfrahm.8...@winternet.com>, mfr...@winternet.com (Matthew
J. Frahm) wrote:
> "Phillips, III J. A." <Whst...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >I thought about the RF-16 (Baldwin Sharknose) but as I recall the two
> >off the D&H got traded to some outfit (DM&E?) anyways, some podunk
> >line in the upper reaches of Minn or Mich--- they may not be running,
> >but Id bet a whole dollar theyre rusting somewheres
>
> Sure wasn't DM&E. I'd know about that.
>
> (and DM&E isn't in the upper reaches of MN.)
>
>
> --
> Matthew J. Frahm________________________mailto:mfr...@winternet.com
They ended up being stored unservicable on the Escanaba & Lake Superior in Mich.
Phillips, III J. A.
Wrong road, right part of the country---all that without even lookin
it up WhooWhoo!
In Jest JP Sends
roger traviss
: CD> -- H24-66 "Trainmaster"
: Not all of the Trainmasters are gone, although not a Beloit
: unit, one of the CP Trainmasters is stored, awaiting final
: disposition (Museum or Corporate Display). At present I
: believe it is in Montreal, but inaccesable to the general
: public.
The CPR TRAIN MASTER is on display at the Candian Railway Museum
in Delson, Quebec just south on Montreal.
Cheers
Roger Traviss
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, "demetre.argiro"@sciatl.com (Demetre Argiro) says:
>Well, I read all the posts and I can't believe that everyone missed my
>favorite engine of all. There are no surviving DL-109's. There were
>less than a hundred of the A's and only 4 B's bult. I believe that
>the last one died around 1963. GM&O 271. It had been on the dead
>line at EMD for some time then.
I think Cliff mentioned them in his long list from the DSG. The last
DL-109 to be scrapped, AFAIK, was a New Haven unit. It was cut up in 1969,
ironically the same year Alco itself died.
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, Whst...@ix.netcom.com (Phillips, III J. A.) says:
>I thought about the RF-16 (Baldwin Sharknose) but as I recall the two
>off the D&H got traded to some outfit (DM&E?) anyways, some podunk
>line in the upper reaches of Minn or Mich--- they may not be running,
>but Id bet a whole dollar theyre rusting somewheres
The D&H RF16's last operated on Michigan's Escanaba & Lake Superior in
1983. Actually, I think 1205 was inoperable when E&LS got it, but they
kept 1216 running for a few years until it suffered some sort of engine
trouble. Both Sharks were stored at Wells a couple of years ago, but I
don't know if anything new has happened to them.
Steven F Kraus
There was some talk that the privately owned Baldwin sharks would find a
home at the Monticello (IL) Railway Museum but I cannot confirm this.
Bob McKeen
Two other dodo birds come to mind:
1. Alco DH-643, the twin engined hydraulics built in 1964 for SP as a
domestic competitor to the Krause Maffeis. I understand that only three
were built, all of which were scrapped around 1973. Unless I'm mistaken
SP donated one truck and Voith transmission to the California State
Railroad Museum. True? If so, does that still qualify it as "extinct?"
2. SDP-40. Supposedly only 20 were built, 14 for GN and 6 for NdeM.
Aren't they all gone or rebuilt beyond recognition?
Bob McKeen
----------------------------------------------------
"The mark of a man is to be able to say at the end of the
day 'I've done my share.'" Alfred E. Perlman
Keith Ranker
drt...@aol.com (Dr Track) wrote:
>Or those FT based cow calf sets that the IC had TRs?
>
I saw on one of "Al Tuner's" OS: posts that a TR4 appeared to be listed
as operating on the IHB in Chicago. This was a post from this week.
Are we talking about the same thing here?
Keith
Matthew J. Frahm
bobm...@aol.com (Bob McKeen) writes:
>Two other dodo birds come to mind:
snip one dodo.
>2. SDP-40. Supposedly only 20 were built, 14 for GN and 6 for NdeM.
>Aren't they all gone or rebuilt beyond recognition?
Nope... one is on MRL still looking very much like an SDP40.
And I think the other 4 (I think one was wrecked and scrapped) are on BN
still. They still look pretty much the same... but they don't have the
steam generators inside anymore.
--
Matthew J. Frahm________________________mailto:mfr...@winternet.com
Burridge, Gerard
doug.s...@freddy.com (Doug Seymour) wrote:
>CD> -- H24-66 "Trainmaster"
>Not all of the Trainmasters are gone, although not a Beloit
>unit, one of the CP Trainmasters is stored, awaiting final
>disposition (Museum or Corporate Display). At present I
>believe it is in Montreal, but inaccesable to the general
>public.
Former CPR 8905 is at Cdn Rly Museum, Delson/St Constant.
=============================================================
Gerry Burridge burr...@odyssee.net
PO Box 152
Pte.Claire-Dorval, Que., CANADA Always looking for RUTLAND
H9R 4N9 photos, film, ephemera, ....
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W Hyde
bobm...@aol.com (Bob McKeen) writes:
>2. SDP-40. Supposedly only 20 were built, 14 for GN and 6 for NdeM.
>Aren't they all gone or rebuilt beyond recognition?
No. Four still operate for BNSF in their full rgalia, one runs for MRL
(#290) and I believe that the 14 in Mexico are stil running.
Evan L. Werkema
In a previous article, bobm...@aol.com (Bob McKeen) says:
>Two other dodo birds come to mind:
>
>2. SDP-40. Supposedly only 20 were built, 14 for GN and 6 for NdeM.
>Aren't they all gone or rebuilt beyond recognition?
BN's three surviving SDP40's still look like SDP40's. They've had the
generators and rooftop vents removed of course, but there's still that large
gap behind the radiators, and the flat rear end. I think the highest numbered
one (5499 it is?) still has the grillwork in the steam generators section,
while the other two have had this plated over.
I also seem to remember that there's a UP SDP35 preserved somewhere, but
I don't remember where.
Matthew J. Frahm
el...@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
>In a previous article, bobm...@aol.com (Bob McKeen) says:
>>Two other dodo birds come to mind:
>>
>>2. SDP-40. Supposedly only 20 were built, 14 for GN and 6 for NdeM.
>>Aren't they all gone or rebuilt beyond recognition?
> BN's three surviving SDP40's still look like SDP40's. They've had the
>generators and rooftop vents removed of course, but there's still that large
>gap behind the radiators, and the flat rear end. I think the highest numbered
>one (5499 it is?) still has the grillwork in the steam generators section,
>while the other two have had this plated over.
3? I thought they have at least 4. I know one was sold to MRL after
some wreck... and possibly another was just wrecked and scrapped...
Does anyone know for sure?
Frederick W Hyde
mfr...@winternet.com (Matthew J. Frahm) writes:
>3? I thought they have at least 4. I know one was sold to MRL after
>some wreck... and possibly another was just wrecked and scrapped...
>Does anyone know for sure?
The MRL unit is #290, still in full SDP40 carbody and is in service (it
even showed up in town in lease/pool service this spring)
Fred
Dr Track
In article <4pdejv$b...@ldl.net>, Keith Ranker <kei...@pinta.ldl.net>
writes:
>>Or those FT based cow calf sets that the IC had TRs?
>>
>
>
>I saw on one of "Al Tuner's" OS: posts that a TR4 appeared to be listed
>as operating on the IHB in Chicago. This was a post from this week.
>
>Are we talking about the same thing here?
>
>
No we're not talking about theexact same thing. IC a two? cow calf units
with 16 cyl 567s (basicly an FT) on road trucks. They were TR something
or others. All later TR were switchers with 12 cyl 567s.
Matthew J. Frahm
Alright... but did one of the SDP40s get wrecked and scrapped?
Joel Stensberg
In article <31B7D5...@ix.netcom.com>,
"Phillips, III J. A." <Whst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>I thought about the RF-16 (Baldwin Sharknose) but as I recall the two
>off the D&H got traded to some outfit (DM&E?) anyways, some podunk
>line in the upper reaches of Minn or Mich--- they may not be running,
>but Id bet a whole dollar theyre rusting somewheres
>
Last I heard (about 2 years ago) they are in Escanaba Mich. (in the
Upper Peninsula) under lock and key in an old LS&I shop building. They
are owned by a private individual.
Joel