LAX/HNL ETOPS?
Doug Hirsch
Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California
and Hawaii? It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour
routes. Are there any 120-minute alternates available midway?
Doug
--
---------------------------------------------------------
Doug Hirsch, Box 1464 GMF, Boston MA 02205 617/497-9088
http://www.spdcc.com/home/dhirsch/ dhi...@spdcc.com
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Larry Stone
In article <61lub7$d9$2...@kragar.kei.com>, dhi...@spdcc.com (Doug Hirsch)
wrote:
>Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California
>and Hawaii? It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour
>routes. Are there any 120-minute alternates available midway?
Yes. No. It's not flown with 120-minute ETOPS capability but rather
180-minute capability. BTW, ETOPS is Extended Twin-engine OPerationS.
Overwater is not in the acronym as it applies to overland flights that are
more than 60 minutes from an alternate as well.
--
-- Larry Stone --- lst...@wwa.com
http://www.wwa.com/~lstone/
Schaumburg, IL, USA
I work for United Airlines but never, never speak for them
Bob Mann
Doug Hirsch wrote:
> Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California
> and Hawaii? It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour
> routes. Are there any 120-minute alternates available midway?
I believe 180-min ETOPS is required for West Coast-Hawaii operations.
- Bob
--
- Bob Mann R.W. Mann & Company, Inc.
Airline Industry Analysis and Consulting Port Washington, NY 11050 USA
office 516-944-0900, fax-7280, mailto:rwma...@interport.net
http://www.interport.net/~rwmannco/
Jeffrey R. Hacker
Doug Hirsch wrote:
> Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California
> and Hawaii? It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour
> routes. Are there any 120-minute alternates available midway?
No 120 minute ETOPS to Hawaii - UA has 180 minute ETOPS authority.
jeff
Art Intemann
Doug Hirsch wrote:
> Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California and
> Hawaii?
Yes--this is the longest stretch of open water with no suitable
alternates anywhere in the world.
> It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour routes. Are there
> any 120-minute alternates available midway?
At the midpoint, you continue to Maui or return to SFO.
Hope this helps,
Art
GRANT M HERBST
Art Intemann (ajint...@earthlink.net) wrote:
Actually this isn't quite true. I belive Hilo (ITO/PHTO) is the closest
airport to the mainland and as such the midpoint for "point of no
return"/equal time point calculation purposes is determined between ITO
and LAX/SFO rather than HNL or Maui, even though the actual destination
of the flight is, in fact, HNL or OGG.
Larry Stone
>At the midpoint, you continue to Maui or return to SFO.
Half right. Hilo (ITO) is the closest airport on the western half of the
route. I've seen a chart with equidistant dividing lines on it (lines that
show the halfway point between two airports) and ITO, not OGG (Maui) is
the Hawaiian airport used. But SFO is correct. After you get about an hour
out of LAX, SFO is closer than LAX.
Of course, due to winds, the airport that is nearest in distance may not
be the nearest in time.
Emile Okal
Art Intemann wrote:
>
> Doug Hirsch wrote:
>
> > Do ETOPS (Extended Twin Overwater...) rules apply between California and
> > Hawaii?
>
> Yes--this is the longest stretch of open water with no suitable
> alternates anywhere in the world.
I seriously doubt this.
1. I believe LAX-PPT (Papeete, Tahiti) has no suitable alternates over
a longer stretch of water. RGI is a meager alternate (only 20 minutes
short of PPT, and a very short runway, on which however a DC-10 landed
during a bomb scare in 1985 (or 86?)). The military airport at Hao is
also an alternate if PPT happened to be closed but the distance is not
much shorter than to PPT. Over than that it is LAX, HNL, IPC or return to
base.
Point in case:
In September 1993, an AF 747 ended up in the lagoon after a somewhat
botched landing at PPT. Since the plane still blocked the runway, the
airport had to be closed. Flights in progress were diverted (i) back to
LAX on the LAX-PPT route; (ii) back to IPC (Easter) on the LanChile
Southern route; and to HNL on the Qantas SYD-PPT (continuing to LAX)
route.
2. Another pretty lonely stretch is AKL-EZE (Auckland, NZ to Buenos
Aires, Argentina; with stop at Rio Gallegas going Westbound). I just
simply doubt that there are any diversion airports. That flight travels
well below 50 degrees South, which would make PPT at least 4000 km
away. IPC would also be pretty far during most of the flight.
3. I would also question if the Mauritius to Perth flight (QF; MK?) has
much diversion possibilities.
>
> > It seems United flies 757s on some of these 4-6 hour routes. Are there
> > any 120-minute alternates available midway?
>
> At the midpoint, you continue to Maui or return to SFO.
Actually, you would shoot for ITO (Hilo) before OGG. It is a little
shorter...
EAO