Identifying 747-100 vs. 747-200
Christopher Stone
Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
747-100.)
If the number of windows is not a reliable way of identifying the 747-100
vs. the 747-200, what is?
Michael....@boeing.com
In article <52bqev$b...@kragar.kei.com> Christopher Stone
<cbs...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> writes:
Chris,
Your friend is correct. Many operators have added additional windows to
their -100 upper decks. So, in general, I don't know of a reliable way of
telling them apart. For BA in particular, the key visual clue would be
the engines. If they were the short duct Pratt& Whitney, the airplane was
a -100. If it had the shorter, long duct engine nacelle, it was a -200
with Rolls Royce RB211 engines.
Mike Lechnar
Aircraft Performance Engineer
"If I was speaking for Boeing, I wouldn't be doing it here".
Ian Judge
In article <52bqev$b...@kragar.kei.com>, Christopher Stone
<cbs...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> writes
>Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
>it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
>deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
>However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
>series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
>747-100.)
>If the number of windows is not a reliable way of identifying the 747-100
>vs. the 747-200, what is?
The way of discerning the difference betwen a BA 747-136 and 236 is by the
engines. All 136 engines are JT9 while all 236 are RB211. By sight the JT9
is a much "longer" looking engine than the Roller. BA operated CF6 747`s
for a short while after taking over British Caledonian.
--
Ian Judge
Peter Coe
Christopher Stone <cbs...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> writes:
>Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
>it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
>deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
>However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
>series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
>747-100.)
>If the number of windows is not a reliable way of identifying the 747-100
>vs. the 747-200, what is?
This keeps coming up, and the end result is there is no reliable way. I
think last time around the loop, it was determined that someone has a -200
with only 3 upper deck windows, so you can't even say if it has 3 windows
it is a -100.
With BA at least, it's easy to tell the 100's from the 200's by the
engines. The 100's have Pratt's and the 200's (and 400's for that matter)
Rolls Royce engines. These engines are very different looking, the
Pratts, have a relatively short cowling, then the core of the engine, and
finally the tail pipe, so it vaguely has 3 steps in the reduction of
diameter.
The Roll's engines look much shorter and fatter, with the cowling
extending almost the whole length of the engine.
Well, that's how I tell the difference. So just when is BA retiring those
planes?
J. Heilig
Christopher Stone wrote:
> Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
> it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
> deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
> However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
> series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
> 747-100.)
> If the number of windows is not a reliable way of identifying the 747-100
> vs. the 747-200, what is?
There isn't really a fool proof way to tell aside from the msn. Some
-100s were built with, and some were modified with, the 10 window upper
deck. There were also -200s built with the three window upper deck. One
way to tell on some aircraft (not all) is the outboard engine pylons.
Most -100s have a pylon trailing edge that sweeps gracefully from the wing
down to the exhaust in a continuous curve. Most -200s have a distinct
"kink" in the trailing edge of the pylon. This isn't always the case, as
many aircraft have been retrofitted, and early -200s had the old pylons on
them.
Jennings Heilig
Nathan Chamberlain
I am led to believe that 747-200 has an emergency exit just aft of the
flight deck, while the 747-100 doesn't.
Christopher Stone <cbs...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> wrote in article
<52bqev$b...@kragar.kei.com>...
Peter & James Liddell
It probably was a 747-100. Airlines like
BA,United,Contintal and Air France have sixteen windows on the
upper deck on both -100 and -200 aircraft. Some airlines like TWA
pluged the windows of some of they're -200s to look the same as
the -100s. Case in point: TWA recieved the last two -100 series
aircraft. They haad the -200 skins but for fleet comonality they
plugged the extra openings. They also had the -200s landing gear,
doors and APU.
So this is a real confusing area. The easy way to tell a
-100 from a -200 is this:
Watch a -200 take-off and remember how much runway it
used. Then any 747's with the short upper deck that take more
than that that day are either -200s going a really long way or
-100s. See the -100 have weaker engines(Well some do Air Canada
,BA and United have new engines on they're -100s).
--
Peter
"All alone in the Lonely Land"
Larry Stone
>Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
>it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
>deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
>However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
>series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
>747-100.)
Nope. Many (most?) have been retrofitted with the "normal" window
configuration. I think (but am not sure) that some late production -100's
came from Boeing with full windows.
>If the number of windows is not a reliable way of identifying the 747-100
>vs. the 747-200, what is?
Uh, serial number?
There's no easy way that I know of. I can tell the UA planes but that's
because I know all the nose and tail numbers.
--
-- Larry Stone --- lst...@interserve.com
http://www.interserve.com/~lstone/
Belmont, CA, USA
My opinions, not United's.
Lalit Kishore Das
Larry Stone (lst...@interserve.com) wrote:
: In article <52bqev$b...@kragar.kei.com>, Christopher Stone
: <cbs...@tucson.Princeton.EDU> wrote:
: >Yesterday I saw a BA 747 classic at PHL. I was under the impression that
: >it was a 747-200, because it had a whole series of windows on the upper
: >deck. I thought all 747-100's had only three windows on the upper deck.
: >However, a friend of mine insisted that some 747-100's also have a full
: >series of upper deck windows. (The BA timetable says the plane was a
: >747-100.)
In the case of BA, it is very easy to tell their -100s from their -200s --
only their -100s have Pratt & Whitney JT9D engines. The rest of their 747
fleet had Rolls Royce engines. The P&W engines have three distinct
sections, ending with a pointy 'cone' jutting out at the end of the
engine. The RR engines have two external sections, and no visible cone at
the end. Interestingly, BA still uses their almost 25-year old 747-100s
for regualr long-distance transatlantic and India routes, mixed in with
their -200s and -400s. They have thus have some of the oldest 747s in
service, along with TWA and Tower Air.
On another note, some of the early 747-200s used to have a smaller 'hump'
at the base of the upper deck -- where the upper deck meets the main
fuselage. When I was young, these planes used to be referred to as
'747B'. The mini-hump has now disappeared, along with the 747B notation.
-Sanjiv.
Karl Swartz
In article <52hte0$5...@kragar.kei.com>,
Nathan Chamberlain <njc...@zeta.org.au> wrote:
>I am led to believe that 747-200 has an emergency exit just aft of the
>flight deck, while the 747-100 doesn't.
It's an option. The 747-122 I was on last Monday (N4724U, the oldest
747-122 in United's fleet and the one that blew a cargo door on its
way from Honolulu to Auckland in 1989) had the emergency exit. So do
United's 747-222Bs.
--
Karl Swartz |Home k...@chicago.com
|Work k...@netapp.com
|WWW http://www.chicago.com/~kls/
Moderator of sci.aeronautics.airliners -- Unix/network work pays the bills
Karl Swartz
In article <52gmks$h...@kragar.kei.com>, <Michael....@boeing.com> wrote:
>Many operators have added additional windows to their -100 upper decks.
It's actually more than just adding windows -- the upper cabin is
extended from 19ft to 25ft, by reorganizing some air conditioning
equipment behind the cabin and making other changes. United has
both varieties of 747-100 in their fleet and the three holers (five
ex-American 747-123s) are noticeably more cramped upstairs than the
modified planes.
Peter & James Liddell
Yes BA has 747-100s and I figured out how to idnetify
them.
The engine nacells of BA's -200s are for RB.211 and are
full cowls, where as the ones for the 100s are for JT9s and are
rather small and plain by compairison.