CPA new to e-filing; form 8453 or 8879?
David Haffey
this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
other does not. Am I missing something important?
David L. Haffey, CPA
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Therese Thomas, EA
> I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
> this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
> 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
> Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
> Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
> other does not. Am I missing something important?
I prefer the 8879. Why add another layer of administrative
work in your office? The 8453 forms must be mailed to the
IRS within three days of acceptance. Yes, I know there are
offices out there that do a weekly mailing of the forms, but
that is not the instructions given. Granted you only need
retain the 8453 until December of this year, but how many of
us have bulging retained files stretching back to the stone
age - ample proof that we do not shred, even when we legally
could. The 8879 forms need to be kept the full three years,
as normal tax documentation is kept, so I don't have to
think - the forms are kept the same length of time as the
regular tax forms.
Therese Thomas, EA
Phoebe Roberts, EA
> The only real difference
> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
> other does not.
That's pretty much it. No mailing is a better choice for us
than mailing.
Phoebe :)
Harlan Lunsford
> I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
> this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
> 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
> Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
> Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
> other does not. Am I missing something important?
Not missing a thing. If the return qualifies for form 8879,
that is definitely the way to go. Saves up to 37 cents,
too.
Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
been efiling since 1989.
Arthur Kamlet
> I efiled a handful of returns last year, so I'm still new at
> this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
> 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
> Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
> Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
> other does not. Am I missing something important?
If you can use the 8879, it is far simpler.
Since the 8453 has to be mailed in, and the IRS loses some
of them from time to time, it can end up being a mild pain.
Unfortunately there are some cases where you cannot file an
8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
2120, and some others.
__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet @ AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH
JanZtaxNOSPAM
>> at this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
>> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why?
>> Form 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an
>> IRS e-file Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature
>> Authorization. Both require a client's signature. The only
>> real difference between them that I can see is that one
>> has to be mailed to the IRS following acceptance of the
>> e-filed return and the other does not. Am I missing
>> something important?
I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
forms in once a week.
However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)
Jan Zobel EA
Oakland, CA
Ernie Betts
> David Haffey wrote:
>> The only real difference
>> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
>> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
>> other does not.
> That's pretty much it. No mailing is a better choice for us
> than mailing.
And IRS is always coming back in the summer asking for
copies of 8453's they claim they never got. I did one 5
times a couple of years ago and it had a 15 page POA. They
claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go if
possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now do
a hand full of 8453's. Ernie
Helen P. OPlanick EA
> this. From a tax season management standpoint, which
> signature/authorization form do you prefer, and why? Form
> 8453; US Individual Income Tax Declaration for an IRS e-file
> Return or Form 8879; IRS e-file Signature Authorization.
> Both require a client's signature. The only real difference
> between them that I can see is that one has to be mailed to
> the IRS following acceptance of the e-filed return and the
> other does not. Am I missing something important?
8879, you don't have to mail it in.
Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
Don Priebe
> 8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
> for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
> unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
> 2120, and some others.
You do not have to know the prior year AGI (or birthday) if
you use the Practitioner PIN method.
--
Don EA in Upstate NY
Helen P. OPlanick EA
> the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
> forms in once a week.
>
> However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
> tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
> and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
> 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)
Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
Pin'ing is so much easier.
Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
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she...@yahoo.com
> David Haffey <haf...@haffeycpa.com> wrote:
> If you can use the 8879, it is far simpler.
>
> Since the 8453 has to be mailed in, and the IRS loses some
> of them from time to time, it can end up being a mild pain.
>
> Unfortunately there are some cases where you cannot file an
> 8879 and have to file the 8453, such as young kids filing
> for the first time, anyone for whom last year's AGI is
> unknown, returns with certain attachments like Form 8332 or
> 2120, and some others.
I know that the storefronts all seem to be using the 8879 so
that there is no mailing on an efile. I wonder how they are
handling the AGI issue on new clients? Also, where is that
required on the forms, I am not seeing it?
Thanks,
bex
Helen P. OPlanick EA
> that there is no mailing on an efile. I wonder how they are
> handling the AGI issue on new clients? Also, where is that
> required on the forms, I am not seeing it?
It is not on the 8879. IF the software requires it, it is
an input screen only.
Helen, EA in PA
Member of The Tax Gang
Director, National Assoication of Enrolled Agents
Immediate Past President, PA Society of Enrolled Agents
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KenB
> the AGI and pin for the 8879.
The taxapyer is supposed to select the PIN, but you will
waste a lot of unnecesary time while your client decides on
the perfect PIN if you ask them for it. I usually select and
input the PIN myself, subject of course to my client's
approval. (This is not like your secret ATM PIN, it is only
a number that the taxpayer authorizes as representative of
his signature.)
JanZtaxNOSPAM
> POA. They claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go
> if possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now
> do a hand full of 8453's.
A couple of questions:
What makes a POA 15 pages long?
And, more relevant to me, what returns do you do as 8453
forms vs. 8879 forms? (in other words, why do you do any
with 8453 or are there some that can only be done with 8453
forms)?
Jan Zobel EA
Harlan Lunsford
>> the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
>> forms in once a week.
>>
>> However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
>> tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
>> and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
>> 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)
> Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
> Pin'ing is so much easier.
Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.
Quote from IRS just today:
"Authorized e-file providers are reminded that the prior
year adjusted gross income must be the amount from the
originally filed prior year return. Authentication Record
field number 0020 and field number 0050 will allow a
positive amount, negative amount or zero entry. To prevent
Error Reject Codes 0679 and 0680 the field must match IRS
Master File.
See Publication 1346 for additional information.
----------
This has been an IRS e-file QuickAlert "
Cheer$,
Harlan LUnsford, EA
Phenix City, AL
Harlan Lunsford
>> POA. They claim they never received. 8879 is the way to go
>> if possible. We do about 4,000 e-files a year and only now
>> do a hand full of 8453's.
> A couple of questions:
> What makes a POA 15 pages long?
> And, more relevant to me, what returns do you do as 8453
> forms vs. 8879 forms? (in other words, why do you do any
> with 8453 or are there some that can only be done with 8453
> forms)?
Jan, see latest pub 1345A.
I used an 8453 just today for two brand new filers, both
younguns.
Also use an 8453 when you have ancillary documents to send,
e.g. form 8332, other statements listed in the pub.
Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
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Don Priebe
>> Pin'ing is so much easier.
> Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
> seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.
Nope. Not when using the Practitioner's PIN. Don't need
the AGI, don't need the birthday.
--
Don EA in Upstate NY
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Phoebe Roberts, EA
>> Pin'ing is so much easier.
> Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
> seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.
The Practitioner PIN program (which is the only paperless
method Lacerte supports) doesn't require prior year AGI (or
birthdates, IIRC).
Phoebe :)
Harlan Lunsford
>>> I chose the 8453 for past years because of having to enter
>>> the AGI and pin for the 8879. It was no big deal to send the
>>> forms in once a week.
>>>
>>> However, I'm considering the 8879 this year because I'm
>>> tired of the IRS contacting me several months after April 15
>>> and saying that they didn't receive the 8453 forms for about
>>> 5 clients (they give me the SSN of the ones they didn't get)
>> Jan, it depends on your software, we don't need AGI at all.
>> Pin'ing is so much easier.
> Perhaps then your software brings forth last year's AGI
> seamlessly. But you would need it for a new client.
>
> Quote from IRS just today:
>
> "Authorized e-file providers are reminded that the prior
> year adjusted gross income must be the amount from the
> originally filed prior year return. Authentication Record
> field number 0020 and field number 0050 will allow a
> positive amount, negative amount or zero entry. To prevent
> Error Reject Codes 0679 and 0680 the field must match IRS
> Master File.
Since posting that, I noticed that on my software (Taxwise)
PIN form, it is said that for Practitioner entered PIN,
neither AGI nor DOB is needed.
So then; what in the heck are they referring to above?
Cheer$,
Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA
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