IRS does not cash my check correctly
Homer Simpson
mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
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dpb
> I owed 12k and paid 4k of it online through officialpayments.com. So I
> mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
> bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
> was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
>
> My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
> not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
> resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
That's at the bank, not IRS...
--
Bill Brown
> On 4/28/2011 3:47 PM, Homer Simpson wrote:
>
> > I owed 12k and paid 4k of it online through officialpayments.com. So I
> > mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
> > bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
> > was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
>
> > My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
> > not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
> > resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
>
> That's at the bank, not IRS...
>
> --
typed the magnetic characters at the bottom of the check.
I seriously doubt that the person doing that typing used anything
other than the check itself as a source for the numbers. Are you sure
you didn't write the check for $12,000?
Homer Simpson
> That's at the bank, not IRS...
How would the bank know that my check was for the exact amount of tax
owed? My guess is this is all done electronically , so someone at IRS
manually enters an amount to deduct an amount from my checking
account. By habit they enter the full tax you owe.
Anyways, I have ordered a copy of this check from my bank so will see
what it looks like. There is a very small chance I wrote it out
incorrectly...
Ivan Erwin
> On Apr 28, 3:59 pm, dpb <n...@non.net> wrote:
>
> > That's at the bank, not IRS...
>
> Anyways, I have ordered a copy of this check from my bank so will see
> what it looks like. There is a very small chance I wrote it out
> incorrectly...
Years ago I wrote a check for a credit card payment. Say $156.25 for
example. Check cleared for something like $135.00. CC company credited
my account for $135.00.
I believe that the CC company entered $135.00 electronically on the
check before sending it to the bank. (I think I could see it on the
cancelled check but not sure now.)
No significant harm, no foul?
Ivan
NadCixelsyd
> On 4/28/2011 3:47 PM, Homer Simpson wrote:
>
> > I owed 12k and paid 4k of it online through officialpayments.com. So I
> > mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
> > bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
> > was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
>
> > My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
> > not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
> > resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
>
> That's at the bank, not IRS...
shows:
Woman owed the IRS $1200 and the state $300. She inadvertently put
the IRS check with her state return and vice versa. The state
deposited the check and it cleared. The IRS sent the check back and
wanted their $1200, payable to them. But she didn't have $1200 in
her checking account. The state said they would take 6 weeks to
"correct" the error and issue a refund. The consumer show was
shunning the state for causing the woman to pay interest and penalties
for six weeks. As "dbp" said, it's the banks fault for accepting the
state's deposit as the check was not made payable to the state
treasurer. I don't know why they didn't go after the bank.
Alan
> I owed 12k and paid 4k of it online through officialpayments.com. So I
> mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
> bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
> was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
>
> My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
> not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
> resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
>
directly through the Federal Reserve. They would be known as the
collecting bank. Your bank would be known as the payor bank. Each bank
must exercise ordinary care in processing checks. As the amount sent for
collection is electronically coded (your bank is not going to use your
actual check to make payment), your bank is off the hook if they
responded to a $12,000 request for payment. The problem is either with
your memory, the IRS employee who recorded the deposit information, or
the Federal Reserve Bank that sent the collection request. Good luck
trying to collect $25 from those guys.
Assuming your memory is not faulty, your bank should make good on the
$25 out of the goodness of their heart.... customer concession as you
were not at fault. Naturally, you would have to present the endorsed
check or I assume an image, that shows the amount was not $12K.
--
Alan
http://taxtopics.net
Gene E. Utterback, EA, RFC, ABA
news:44dd6d90-6211-4c03...@18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>I owed 12k and paid 4k of it online through officialpayments.com. So I
> mailed in my check of $8k before 4/17. Now today I received from my
> bank, "notice of insufficient funds". It seems IRS assumed my check
> was for $12k instead of the $8k I wrote on it.
>
> My guess is IRS just assumed my check was for the full $12k and did
> not even read the numbers on it?! Any tips for how to get this
> resolved and credited for my $25 bank fee for bounced check?
I wanted to chime in on the "someone somewhere typed the wrong info for my
check" issue.
You mail a check to the IRS, or to me for that matter, and it first goes to
MY bank where it gets coded into MY bank's system. Then, via the magic of
electronic never, never land, my bank goes and gets the money from your
bank. Eventually YOUR bank gets the check and "clears" it. Let's pause for
a moment here.
When you look at your canceled checks you'll see numbers across the bottom.
The ones on the left side are the Bank's Routing number, your account number
and your check number. The numbers on the bottom right of your canceled
check show the amount the bank cleared the check for. So when you do your
bank reconciliation at the end of the month COMPARE what the bank encoded on
the check with what you wrote the check for to make sure it cleared for the
right amount. Now, back to the show -
When I get your check there is NOTHING for me to do but take it to the bank
and give it to them for processing. Generally, when you mail a payment to
any taxing authority it goes to a different address then if you have a
refund or ZERO due return. This is because most of the time its going
directly to the bank for processing. The bank does its thing and notifies
the company being paid that your payment came in so they can update your
account in their internal Accounts Receivable.
I do not believe that the IRS or any of the taxing authorities do this any
differently than any other business. I would be very surprised to find out
that ANYONE at the IRS has access to your bank's internal systems - the ones
where the bank actually make payment on your check, either electronically or
otherwise. So I doubt seriously that this was the fault of anyone at the
IRS.
Since your check should have been returned to YOU for insufficient funds,
check to see what you actually made the check out for. At the end of the
day I suspect, like many responders to you have already mentioned, that this
is EITHER due to you making the check out different from what you thought
you did OR its a bank issue. Either way, your check will tell you.
I'd be shocked and surprised and to find out the IRS had ANYTHING to do with
this at all.
Good luck,
Gene E. Utterback, EA, RFC, ABA
Stuart A. Bronstein
> You mail a check to the IRS, or to me for that matter, and it
> first goes to MY bank where it gets coded into MY bank's system.
> Then, via the magic of electronic never, never land, my bank
> goes and gets the money from your bank. Eventually YOUR bank
> gets the check and "clears" it. Let's pause for a moment here.
Actually banks rarely if ever actually clear checks except by
expiration of a waiting period. Banks are notified if a check
bounces, but are not normally notified separately that a check
clears. The waiting period is sufficient so that the check, if bad,
should have bounced by that time.
That's not always the case. I heard about one case where someone
deposited a check in his account on a bank, where the address of the
bank on the check was a different federal reserve district. The
encoding at the bottom of the check was for yet a different bank in a
third federal reserve district. That set-up confused the system so
much that nobody realized the check wasn't good until after the
waiting period, after the payee had closed his account and gone.
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
D. Stussy
news:ippme5$19d$1...@dont-email.me...
Look at a cancelled check? You assume that people and banks are still
operating the way they were before the "Check21 Act." Some time ago (about
2 years), Bank of America STOPPED sending actual checks back, and in
January, they stopped printing images of the checks on the monthly
statements. As BofA is one of the largest U.S. banks, their practices are
"it" for many U.S. taxpayers.
Another bank, HSBC, also does NOT include images of checks on statements,
but one can pull an electronic image via their web site if one has
registered one's account for electronic access over the Internet.
Maybe even in 10 more years, the issue will be, "what is a check?"
> When I get your check there is NOTHING for me to do but take it to the
bank
> and give it to them for processing. Generally, when you mail a payment
to
> any taxing authority it goes to a different address then if you have a
> refund or ZERO due return. This is because most of the time its going
> directly to the bank for processing. The bank does its thing and
notifies
> the company being paid that your payment came in so they can update your
> account in their internal Accounts Receivable.
Here, J.P.Morgan Chase now accepts iPhone images of checks for deposit.
Watch their advertisements!
> I do not believe that the IRS or any of the taxing authorities do this
any
> differently than any other business. I would be very surprised to find
out
> that ANYONE at the IRS has access to your bank's internal systems - the
ones
> where the bank actually make payment on your check, either electronically
or
> otherwise. So I doubt seriously that this was the fault of anyone at the
> IRS.
>
> Since your check should have been returned to YOU for insufficient funds,
> check to see what you actually made the check out for. At the end of the
> day I suspect, like many responders to you have already mentioned, that
this
> is EITHER due to you making the check out different from what you thought
> you did OR its a bank issue. Either way, your check will tell you.
>
> I'd be shocked and surprised and to find out the IRS had ANYTHING to do
with
> this at all.
For normal return processing, I agree. However, there are different paths
for checks when an IRS function handles the payment directly (i.e. at
audit, or enforced collection by an RO). In those latter cases, last I
heard, the IRS still had a "teller function" which encoded the checks
directly.
Homer Simpson
amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
taxes?
Stuart Bronstein
> I finally got a copy of the check and it was my mistake . For the
> amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
> So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
> taxes?
In theory you could get it back from your bank. Under the law the
written amount supersedes the numerical amount on a check, and they
only should have paid what the words said, not what the letters said.
In practice it is not likely to be that simple. But call them and see
if they can help.
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
paultry
> I finally got a copy of the check and it was my mistake . For the
> amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
> So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
> taxes?
>
What refund? Since the check bounced, the IRS didn't get
any of your money. Upon receipt of your check, the IRS
would have credited your tax account for either $8,000 or
$12,000 (depending upon how they read the amount). When the
IRS receives notice that the bank bounced the check, they
will reverse the credit, assess a bad check penalty @ 2% of
the payment amount ($160 or $240), and charge you late
payment penalty and interest on the unpaid $8,000 tax due on
your return (since they didn't receive good payment by the
due date).
Homer Simpson
> On 5/5/2011 9:18 AM, Homer Simpson wrote:
>
> > I finally got a copy of the check and it was my mistake . For the
> > amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
> > So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
> > taxes?
>
> What refund? Since the check bounced, the IRS didn't get
> any of your money.
I forgot to mention the IRS tried to cash my check again a week after
it bounced. Since I had enough funds in my account, it went through.
So it looks like if it bounces, they automatically try it again a week
later or something...
Phil Marti
> I forgot to mention the IRS tried to cash my check again a week after
> it bounced. Since I had enough funds in my account, it went through.
> So it looks like if it bounces, they automatically try it again a week
> later or something...
The IRS should automatically refund the overpayment. If you haven't
gotten it within a couple of weeks after the payment cleared, call
them.
Phil Marti
Retired IRS Collection
dpb
> On May 5, 1:28 pm, paultry<afn0255...@afn.org> wrote:
>> On 5/5/2011 9:18 AM, Homer Simpson wrote:
>>
>>> I finally got a copy of the check and it was my mistake . For the
>>> amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
>>> So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
>>> taxes?
>>
>> What refund? Since the check bounced, the IRS didn't get
>> any of your money.
>
> I forgot to mention the IRS tried to cash my check again a week after
> it bounced. Since I had enough funds in my account, it went through.
> So it looks like if it bounces, they automatically try it again a week
> later or something...
So, since as Stuart's note that the written amount is supposed to
control over the figures if they are not consonant, you might try to get
the overdraft charge refunded by the bank if there were sufficient funds
for the lesser (written) amount at the time.
Probability of joy is probably inversely proportional to the size of the
bank and directly tied into the length and depth of your personal
interaction w/ individuals beyond and above the window tellers or the
electronic services in the local branch office.
--
paultry
>> On 5/5/2011 9:18 AM, Homer Simpson wrote:
>>
>>> I finally got a copy of the check and it was my mistake . For the
>>> amount I wrote 12k in digits, but where you spell it out I wrote 8k.
>>> So now the new problem is how do I get a refund for the 4k in overpaid
>>> taxes?
>>
>> What refund? Since the check bounced, the IRS didn't get
>> any of your money.
>
> I forgot to mention the IRS tried to cash my check again a week after
> it bounced. Since I had enough funds in my account, it went through.
> So it looks like if it bounces, they automatically try it again a week
> later or something...
>
Per IRS Tax Topic 206 - Dishonored Payments, "The Internal
Revenue Service does not submit checks or other commercial
payment instruments a second time for payment. The
re-submission of a payment would be in the hands of the
clearinghouse. When a check or other commercial payment
instrument is not paid, the clearinghouse frequently
resubmits it to the bank."
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc206.html