how can I tell if a stock is worthless
Joe Leikhim
> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended
> return.
>
> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
(fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
"New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
$10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
Joe
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Dick Adams
> Christopher Green wrote:
>> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
>> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
>> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
>> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
>> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
>> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
>> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended
>> return.
>>
>> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
>> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
> I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
> (fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
> given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
> worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
> "New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
> there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
> from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
> $10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
Because they are in a retirement account, I suspect there is
no tax consequence for their sale.
While I have no experience in the stock certificate
collection, it strikes me that the earlier the issue date on
a ceryificate, the more valuable the certificate is. But
individual certificates are not issued to retirement accounts
rather they are either kept on the books of the stock
transfer agent or issued to the trustee (I'd like to know if
I'm incorrect on that statement)!
A.G. Kalman
> Christopher Green wrote:
>> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
>> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
>> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
>> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
>> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
>> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
>> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended
>> return.
>>
>> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
>> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
> I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
> (fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
> given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
> worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
> "New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
> there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
> from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
> $10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
The stock still trades as IRIDQ. Therefore, it is not
worthless. You treat these shares as you would treat any
other investment contained in a retirement account. You are
free to sell them and reinvest the cash as a tax-free
transaction. You can sell them and remove the cash (if your
401K allows it). The distribution would be taxable and
subject to early withdrawal penalties.
--
Arthur Kamlet
> Christopher Green wrote:
>> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
>> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
>> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
>> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
>> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
>> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
>> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended return.
For stock which you suddenly discover has become worthless,
you actually have 7 years to amend.
>> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
>> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
> I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
> (fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
> given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
> worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
> "New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
> there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
> from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
> $10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
Losses within an IRA or 401k are not losses for income tax
purposes.
I have not followed this stock.
For the general case, however, if the new certificates were
converted from the old, then you would seem to hold the new
and if they have value you cannot claim any loss wile you
stoill hold them
But if the old certificates were canceled, something a
bankruptxcy court could do, and new certificates issued,
your old shares would be worthless as of Dec 31 of the year
in which they became worthelss. You would have to file a
1040X for that year, and if the loss gives you a net loss of
more than 3000, the carryforward losses means amending the
next year, and the next, ... until you wipe out the capital
loss carryover.
Should I see such a client, I say somehting like, Oh joy :-(
If you sell your certificates which have some small value
for even 3 cents total to an unrelated party you have a
claimable loss.
Commercial warning:
I have a standing offer to buy any certificate for $1 and
give you a valid bill of sale, but only if you truly believe
the stock to be worthless.
Since these are in your IRA or 401k, just wave bye bye and
get on with life.
__
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet @ AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH
Christopher Green
> Christopher Green wrote:
>> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
>> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
>> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
>> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
>> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
>> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
>> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended
>> return.
>>
>> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
>> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
> I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
> (fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
> given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
> worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
> "New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
> there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
> from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
> $10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
Worthless means strictly worthless. IRIDQ continues to trade
on the "Pink Sheets" at $0.12 bid, $0.15 asked, so it is not
worthless. If your shares were to be cancelled or
reverse-split out of existence in the bankruptcy, they would
then be worthless. You can't take a capital loss on
worthless stock in an IRA, 401(k), or other tax-deferred
plan, anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
You would have to withdraw the shares in kind from your
401(k) or IRA, then ask your broker for certificates (the
magic words are "transfer and ship"). I don't know whether
there's a scripophile market in Iridium certificates.
Whether you can withdraw the stock in kind from your 401(k)
or IRA depends on the plan rules; this sort of thing is
usually either forbidden or not worth the trouble. A
withdrawal would be taxable, and if it's not for an exempt
reason, it would be penalized as well.
--
Chris Green
BMS
> Christopher Green wrote:
>> You could call NVF and ask them; they're still in business.
>> But I suspect your shares were cancelled back in 1996 when
>> they came out of Chapter 11. If that's so, I also suspect
>> that it's too late to take a capital loss on a stock that
>> went worthless six years ago: you have to take your losses
>> on worthless stocks the year they become worthless, and it's
>> too late to get six-year-old money back on an amended
>> return.
>>
>> There is a scripophile market in NVF stock certificates,
>> where you might fetch a little consolation prize.
> I have a bunch of Iridium stock in two 401K/IRA plans
> (fortunately most bought "at the bottom"), the shares are
> given about $0.20 value per share in the accounts. Are these
> worthless (no future prospects)? Iridium now calls itself
> "New Iridium". How can I get the certificates issued? Will
> there be any penalty for early withdrawl of these shares
> from the plans? What if I sell them to collectors for
> $10/share? What tax liabilities would I incur?
Leave them be since they are in a qualified plan. you can't
harvest them for any sort of loss.
**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**
SEP accounts) issue me the certificates, show as a
distribution, pay taxes based on the current value (pennies
on pennies)?
--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
Harlan Lunsford
> Because they are in a retirement account, I suspect there is
> no tax consequence for their sale.
>
> While I have no experience in the stock certificate
> collection, it strikes me that the earlier the issue date on
> a "ceryificate", the more valuable the certificate is. But
> individual certificates are not issued to retirement accounts
> rather they are either kept on the books of the stock
> transfer agent or issued to the trustee (I'd like to know if
> I'm incorrect on that statement)!
"ceryificate"? Been in the usque-beatha again, Dick?
And as was told to me by Waterhouse securities, evidence of
my Roth stock investments are indeed book entries only.
After all, no real reason to physically issue ceryTificates.
Cheer$, (hick)
Harlan
L K Williams
> Basically, my question is; could I have my broker (IRA and
> SEP accounts) issue me the certificates, show as a
> distribution, pay taxes based on the current value (pennies
> on pennies)?
I suppose this would be possible but I fail to see why you
would bother. At best, it would create a wash; the
distribution would be offset by the loss (your basis will be
the value of the distribution, not the price paid by the
IRA/SEP.) If you have any long-term gains, you would offset
the loss against those, which would not be a full wash.
Art Kamlet
>> Basically, my question is; could I have my broker (IRA and
>> SEP accounts) issue me the certificates, show as a
>> distribution, pay taxes based on the current value (pennies
>> on pennies)?
In theory, if the broker is willing to give you a distribution
in stock and if the company is solvent enopugh to pay a trasnfer
agent to produce certificates, you can do this. The broker would
issue a 1099-R for the market value of the stock represented by
the certificate. That 1099-R amount is taxable unless rolled over
within 60 days.
But why????
Art Kamlet ArtKamlet @ AOL.com Columbus OH K2PZH
<< ------------------------------------------------->>
A.G. Kalman
> Basically, my question is; could I have my broker (IRA and
> SEP accounts) issue me the certificates, show as a
> distribution, pay taxes based on the current value (pennies
> on pennies)?
Distributions from IRAs are in cash or check!
--