DRY ICE
627
absorbent" or "preservative" in
5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
a piece the size of a golf ball
in each bucket should do the trick.
Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
able to find the stuff?
Gene & Jackie Stephens
Although I'm not an authority on dry ice, I have heard that it does
asorb or 'displaces' the oxygen from the air space.
You are not supposed to be in an enclosed air space with dry ice due to
the possible cause of suffocation.
Therefore, it not an 'preservative' in itself, but just reduces or
displaces the oxygen in the container. No oxygen helps to reduce the
likely-hood of spoilage. That's the reason things are vacuum packed.
Try looking in the 'Yellow Pages' under 'ice', for the nearest place
that sells it in your area. Some major grocery chains also sell it.
Gene
arc...@cybernet1.com
do not know if it is correct or not
In article <35DEFD4C...@portup.com>,
627 <dw...@portup.com> wrote:
> I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
> absorbent" or "preservative" in
> 5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
> a piece the size of a golf ball
> in each bucket should do the trick.
>
> Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
> able to find the stuff?
>
>
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Ed Jones
>I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
>absorbent" or "preservative" in
>5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
>a piece the size of a golf ball
>in each bucket should do the trick.
>Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
>able to find the stuff?
Dry Ice is simply CO2, in solid form. If you introduce a golf-ball
size chunk to a 5gal bucket, it will drive out all the air. This is
great for killing weevils!! (And other beasties.)
Ed
Kevin
>
> 627 wrote:
> >
> > I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
> > absorbent" or "preservative" in
> > 5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
> > a piece the size of a golf ball
> > in each bucket should do the trick.
> >
> > Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
> > able to find the stuff?
>
> asorb or 'displaces' the oxygen from the air space.
> You are not supposed to be in an enclosed air space with dry ice due to
> the possible cause of suffocation.
> Therefore, it not an 'preservative' in itself, but just reduces or
> displaces the oxygen in the container. No oxygen helps to reduce the
> likely-hood of spoilage. That's the reason things are vacuum packed.
> Try looking in the 'Yellow Pages' under 'ice', for the nearest place
> that sells it in your area. Some major grocery chains also sell it.
> Gene
Dry ice is solidified carbon dioxide. If place in a container, it will
vaporize at atmospheric pressure and temperature. The carbon dioxide is
heavier than air and should displace air out the top. Two problems
using it for storage. First is the safety issue. Because it displaces
air, it should be handled in a well ventillated area. Second, while it
is vaporizing, and displacing air, it will cause some of the moisture in
the air to condense, this might cause spoilage
InEN97
generally no bullshit type of guy. Condensation can be a problem but if the
grain,beans etc is heated prior to storange to drive off moisture ( remember
parched corn) this should not be a probelm. Sparkey
Mike S. Medintz
627 <dw...@portup.com> spake:
>I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
>absorbent" or "preservative" in
>5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
>a piece the size of a golf ball
>in each bucket should do the trick.
>
>Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
>able to find the stuff?
It works.
You place a certain amount of dry ice in the bottom of a sealable
food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every gallon
of capacity in the container, but more than that won't hurt), and
cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour in the grains
or beans that you're storing, put the top on unsealed, and wait for
the dry ice to sublimate to gas. After that happens (takes a few
hours, usually) you seal the bucket.
The way it works is this...it forces the oxygen out of the bucket,
which cuts down on decomposition.
One thing to watch out for: moisture condensing due to the depressed
temperature. You want to seal it in a _dry_ area, and if you have a
way to heat the grain and barrel to drive out the moisture before
putting in the dry ice, that's a good idea.
Mike S. Medintz : KB9ODS : www.idir.net/~medintz
It's time to throw their damned tea in the harbor
J. R.
be preserved thru a plastic or rubber tube. This will eliminate most of
the moisture problem.
My Best ----
My home page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/joe_roberts/farmerjo.htm
SWSURVIV1
>food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every gallon
>of capacity in the container, but more than that won't hurt), and
>cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour in the grains
i do fuel tank removals that include cutting them up with a torch. the rule
of thumb for total elimination of oxygen with dryice is 1lb per 100 gallons of
space/ I use 2lb per 100gallons and have never had a flash fire when cutting
up a gasoline storage tank. Wait about 45minutes after puting in crushed
dry ice. we usually go to lunch and then cut when we get back.
Steve Strong owner of S.W. MI. SURVIVAL SUPPLY. Sam Andy Foods dealer.
Its better to have it now and throw it away in 20 years than need it at Y2K and
not have it. PGP Public Key available on request. Only the unprepared will
die young.
Ian Stirling
: While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over,
: 627 <dw...@portup.com> spake:
:>I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
:>absorbent" or "preservative" in
:>5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
:>a piece the size of a golf ball
:>in each bucket should do the trick.
:>
:>Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
:>able to find the stuff?
: It works.
: You place a certain amount of dry ice in the bottom of a sealable
: food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every gallon
: of capacity in the container, but more than that won't hurt), and
: cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour in the grains
: or beans that you're storing, put the top on unsealed, and wait for
: the dry ice to sublimate to gas. After that happens (takes a few
: hours, usually) you seal the bucket.
Looks to be around 11 grams of CO2 will convert to around 6 liters of CO2,
you probably want around 20 grams, to get most of the air out, so a little
under an ounce.
An ounce would be about right.
--
See http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ |Linux PDA, cheap electronics/PC bits sale.
See_header,_for_UCE_policy___________|_____________________________Ian_Stirling.
Things a surgeon should never say.
Better save that for the autopsy.
Ian Stirling
:>You place a certain amount of dry ice in the bottom of a sealable
:>food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every gallon
:>of capacity in the container, but more than that won't hurt), and
:>cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour in the grains
: i do fuel tank removals that include cutting them up with a torch. the rule
: of thumb for total elimination of oxygen with dryice is 1lb per 100 gallons of
: space/ I use 2lb per 100gallons and have never had a flash fire when cutting
100 gallons of CO2 would weigh around 2 pounds, so 1 pound may be a little
light, though probably will work most of the time.
: up a gasoline storage tank. Wait about 45minutes after puting in crushed
: dry ice. we usually go to lunch and then cut when we get back.
: Steve Strong owner of S.W. MI. SURVIVAL SUPPLY. Sam Andy Foods dealer.
--
See http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ |Linux PDA, cheap electronics/PC bits sale.
See_header,_for_UCE_policy___________|_____________________________Ian_Stirling.
The fight between good and evil, an epic battle. Darth vader and Luke,
suddenly in the middle of the fight, Darth pulls Luke to him, and whispers
"I know what you'r getting for christmas!" Luke exclaims "But how ??!?"
"It's true Luke, I know what you'r getting for christmas" Luke tries to ignore
this, but wrenches himself free, yelling "How could you know this?",
Vader replies "I felt your presents"
joe myles
Robbins 31 around Halloween :P hope that helps.
Ed Jones wrote:
> 627 <dw...@portup.com> wrote:
>
> >I recall reading a post awhile back about using dry ice as an "
> >absorbent" or "preservative" in
> >5 gallon buckets stored with grain, beans, etc. It was mentioned that
> >a piece the size of a golf ball
> >in each bucket should do the trick.
>
> >Any idea if this would be a good practice?, and if so, where might I be
> >able to find the stuff?
>
DeJaMooooo
Question on Carbon Dioxide:
I have a compressed air cylinder the same that is used for beer kegs and soda
fountains. If I remember this gas is CO2. I use the compressed gas to power a
small artist air brush.
Are we talking about the same gas here folks? (I'm no rocket scientist) If so,
the airbrush has a controled air flow and could this compressed gas get the job
done concerning 5gal buckets and grains?
Thanks for any comments,
BUCK
****
"Beware of the fellow who knows the anwser before he understands the question."
Audchild
>food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every
>gallon of capacity in the container, but more than that won't
>hurt), and cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour
>(takes a few hours, usually) you seal the bucket.
But how do you tell when the dry ice has sublimated the gas? If I wait too
long, won't the oxygen get back in? Also, since I live in a very humid area,
are there any other methods of handling the moisture issue (besides cooking in
the oven for a few minutes?).
Thanks,
Audchild
Ken Korpse
dejam...@aol.com (DeJaMooooo) writes:
It's the same gas, but two diffrent delivery methods. By just pouring CO2 into
the bucket you're running the risk of spilling out the CO2 when you pour the
grain in. The dry ice method forces out the oxygen after the grain is in the
bucket.
I have no time for lies
Enjoy or Die
'Nuff Said
-Ken
Ken Kor...@Aol.Com
Mike S. Medintz
>But how do you tell when the dry ice has sublimated the gas?
Luck is a factor. Also, after filling the container, wait a few hours
and check the bottom. If it's uncomfortably cold to the touch, the ice
hasn't completely sublimated. Otherwise, it's good to seal.
The rule I use: Wait as long as it would take a similar weight of
regular ice to melt under similar conditions, plus ten or twenty
minutes.
>If I wait too long, won't the oxygen get back in?
That's a risk, which is why you don't do it overnight.
>Also, since I live in a very humid area,
>are there any other methods of handling the moisture issue (besides cooking in
>the oven for a few minutes?).
One crude method...timing when you actually buy the dry ice and
package the stuff.
Watch the temperature and relative humidity for a few days. When the
temp spikes upwards and the RH downwards, do it. (At least, I think
that's how the rule works, but it wouldn't hurt to double-check it.
You may want to refer to the FAQ at the URL in my .sig, or the FAQ for
the rec.food.preserving newsgroup. I'm pretty sure that it's in one of
those)
Logan VanLeigh
>
> Hello Big World,
>
> Question on Carbon Dioxide:
>
> I have a compressed air cylinder the same that is used for beer kegs and soda
> fountains. If I remember this gas is CO2.
If it is CO2, run a hose into the bottom of the bucket, add product,
open CO2 valve, feel at the top of the bucket for the temperature
change, shut valve, pull out hose, and seal bucket.
Be careful that it is a pure enough CO2 for food use.
Recent research shows that as little as 3% CO2 kills all life stages of
major food pests. It ain't rocket science, so jump in.
Logan
coz...@remove-meusa.net
>>You place a certain amount of dry ice in the bottom of a sealable
>>food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for every
>>gallon of capacity in the container, but more than that won't
>>hurt), and cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour
>>in the grains or beans that you're storing, put the top on unsealed,
>>and wait for the dry ice to sublimate to gas. After that happens
>>(takes a few hours, usually) you seal the bucket.
>
>But how do you tell when the dry ice has sublimated the gas? If I wait too
>long, won't the oxygen get back in? Also, since I live in a very humid area,
>are there any other methods of handling the moisture issue (besides cooking in
>the oven for a few minutes?).
I use 5 to 15 gallon buckets, with a food grade plastic bag inside
(thick plastic... at least 3 mil, and big enough to hang out of the
bucket about a foot when filled). Follow the instructions above (dry
ice on bottom, several paper towels over it, then the grain). Gather
the top of the plastic bag together somewhat loosely (leave just
enough room for air to escape), drape it loosely over one edge of the
bucket, and set the bucket lid on top to keep the bag gathered and in
place over the edge.
After about 2 - 3 hours or so, grab the top of the bag and twist it up
tight and tie it in a knot. Cinch the knot as tight as the strength of
the plastic bag will allow! Then stuff the plastic back into the
bucket and seal it up. 2 - 3 hours is plenty of time for a couple of
ounces of dry ice to sublimate. You don't have to worry too much about
air getting back in if you wait too long: carbon dioxide is heavier
than air, and as long the air outside the bucket is fairly calm, no
problem. Don't throw the bag wide open before knotting it, keep kids
and pets from playing and running around the bucket while the dry ice
is sublimating, etc. Also, unless you're using pounds and pounds of
dry ice in a air-tight closet, the risk of suffocation is extremely
slight. You could do the above to 10 or 15 (or even double that!)
5-gal. buckets and put them all in a closed bedroom without any
problem at all!
If you're concerned about moisture, throw in 5 or 6 moisture absorber
packets into the bag. I've heard that a piece of lattice slat (about 6
inches long, and free of paint, dirt, grease, etc) is a good moisture
absorber - just cook it in a microwave for about 3 - 4 minutes first
to really dry it out!
The bit of moisture which might condense in the bag, however, is
really not that big of a deal. The bacteria which cause food spoilage
need 4 things to do their duty: a food source (your grain), oxygen,
moisture and heat. Eliminate any one of these and spoilage stops
(generally speaking - there are some anaerobic bacteria that may
survive no oxygen - solution: diatomaceous earth). Get one of the
four down to as low level as you can and spoilage is reduced (or
postponed) by about 95% or more.
bi...@dogbert.millennibomb.com
>I use 5 to 15 gallon buckets, with a food grade plastic bag inside
>(thick plastic... at least 3 mil, and big enough to hang out of the
>bucket about a foot when filled).
Where might one find bags of said size? I've never seen any
that large in the Ziploc section of a grocery store. Shortest wait
I've found for mylar bags from any of the survival/health food
suppliers is 30 days, btw.
thanks,
b
Greg
Ian Stirling <000035E08...@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote
in message <000035E08...@mauve.demon.co.uk>...
>SWSURVIV1 <swsu...@aol.com> wrote:
>:>You place a certain amount of dry ice in the bottom of a
sealable
>:>food-grade container (offhand I'd say about an ounce for
every gallon
>:>of capacity in the container, but more than that won't
hurt), and
>:>cover it with a few layers of paper towels. Then, pour in
the grains
I use a nitrogen bottle to do the same. I put a piece of
tubing on the end of my gas torch and put the oxygen
regulator on the nitrogen bottle. The end of the tube is
partially crimped shut to keep grains from plugging the
tube. I then push the tube to the bottom of the bucket and
wrap the plastic bag liner around the tube on the top. I
then flush the bag of grain in the bucket for 15 seconds at
40 psi. The grain I have stored this way is all fine after 2
years.
Nitrogen is considered a better choice of gas but the
books say C02 is just fine.
Jim Abel
>
>I then flush the bag of grain in the bucket for 15 seconds at
>40 psi. The grain I have stored this way is all fine after 2
>years.
Greg, you are putting in the nitrogen way to fast to get all the oxygen out.
You should just barely crack the valve and insert the gas as slowly as
possible. Your method probably pushes out a lot of oxygen, but there is a
lot left. Here's an experiment you can try. The next time you flush a
bucket, hold a lit match down just above the food. If it doesn't go out, you
haven't displaced all the oxygen.
If you are using oxygen absorbers, I'm sure your stuff is fine. If you're
not, rotate early and often and use absorbers or more careful displacement
techniques for new stuff.
One advantage of CO2 is that it is quite a bit denser that air so it tends
to stay at the bottom of the bucket. Argon is also good.
Jim Abel
--
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Store a few necessities now. It's cheap insurance in case things get bad.