Do oil lamps polute inside air?
t...@sccoast.net
>
> Say I buy some raw land with no services on it....
> no electricity or gas pipe line.
>
> And I decide to use candles or oil lamps (such as
> Petromax) for lighting.
>
> How much emissions is there from such lamps like
> the Petromax?
>
> I have allergies and am concerned abt it.
>
> Are there any other ways to light a house without
> electric service on the land yet still use indoor
> electric lights with no emissions?
>
> Maybe have an outside generator where the
> pollutants would be outside?
>
> John
> ---------------
> Remove SPAMNO from address to reply
They give off soot and ash (lanterns and candles) unless you use
propane, which would be my choice, but you still need some fresh air
coming in no matter what type you use.
Tom Morris
>
>How much emissions is there from such lamps like
>the Petromax?
>
Autopsies performed on ancient frozen eskimos shows significant lung
damage due to combustion by-products. Presumably, this smoke was
inhaled when these people used fire indoors for cooking and lighting.
I can't speak to Petromax, but it would seem that any combustables
used inside a dwelling would have to be treated with the utmost
respect for ventilation, etc ......
willie
Tom Morris wrote in message <37a978e8...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:56:57 GMT, J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
>
>>
>>How much emissions is there from such lamps like
>>the Petromax?
>>
>
Shut the vents in your bedroom and leave a lamp on all night. Make sure that
there is either a 1inch gap at the bottom of your door or very slightly open
a window 1/8 to 1/4
of an inch. Thats to make sure that there is some fresh air coming into the
room. Ask yourself how you feel in the morning. Thats a whole lot easier
than building a house planning on lamps and finding out you can't handle
them. I found out very quickly that the kerosene space heaters of 15 years
ago were a no-no for me. got real sick in a couple of days.
>
>
Roger Moss
Any burning appliance risks both the production of carbon monoxide and
the exhaustion of all the oxygen in the air as it is converted to C02.
I quote from http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/awm/tilley.htm:
"After the war, production continued in much the same way, except that
as electricity became available in the UK in more and more towns and
villages, there was less demand for indoor lamps and ornamental lamps.
The 246 stormlight was well established by then, and soon became the
most popular product in the range. At the same time there were several
fatalities caused by carbon monoxide poisoning produced by paraffin
heaters used in rooms with an inadequate supply of fresh air. Paraffin
as a heat source suddenly became unpopular, and the paraffin heater
market collapsed. Tilley concentrated on the X246, which survived, even
though its principle of operation was the same as the heater."
I would expect a pressurised lamp like a Petromax to produce less smell
(unburnt paraffin) and soot than a lamp (or candles) that uses a wick;
conversely it has a much higher burning rate than a candle so will use
up the oxygen in a room more quickly. Just like a gas cooker really.
This is really not a problem provided you have sufficient through
ventilation (i.e. air going IN and OUT, not just one small window with
no air going through it). Get a carbon monoxide monoxide test patch or
alarm and see what happens.
Roger Moss
Joel Davidson
heard reports that children's respiratory illnesses drop dramatically in
homes where PV powered lights replace kerocene lamps. The PV systems are
paid for with monthly payments equal to monthly kerosene lamp fuel costs.
Perhaps someone in the Dominican Republic can verify this information?
Chas
The Petromax (as well as the Coleman lanterns) that are pressurized also
give off the "woshing" sound when they burn that can be annoying for any
length of time. They also give off quite a bit of heat (good in winter
where I live) . That's why many prefer to use Aladdin lamps instead.
Charlie
Sylvan Butler
>But... I have a feeling that any land I can afford
>will NOT have services (elect, gas, etc) run to
I understand.
>Now... I don't know how much it will cost to have
>power, etc run.... maybe it's cheaper than solar
>lighting??
Not likely. Unless the power is already "at" the property (e.g. on the
road) the power co. will charge to run it. They will charge thousands
of dollars per mile. This charge is the only thing that makes solar
economical. Spend on solar what you would have spent on the utility.
Propane (maybe wood) for cooking, heating and hot water.
Solar thermal for heating and hot water. Maybe cooking.
Solar PV for lighting and other (minimized) electric appliances.
You can get started under $500 with solar PV. But you won't get much
electricity. For example, watch for a 300w inverter to come on sale at
WalMart, KMart, etc. Expect to pay $45 to $75 (yes, those are real
prices). Also watch for an inexpensive compact fluorescent light bulb
in the 14w range (about the same light as a 60w incandescent bulb)
(about $5-$15). Also get a deep cycle RV or marine battery (about $50
this is a big compromise, but 1/2 the price of the best low-end
solution). Get a 30w to 60w solar panel from http://www.windsun.com/
or similar ($250-$350). I'd also STRONGLY recommend a charge
controller (about $50-$60). Then there is wire, etc.
This inverter will run your light bulb and a few other small things (a
20" TV, laptop computer, or maybe desktop computer). You will only have
about 1kwh in the battery, or about three-four hours of full-load use
thru your inverter (70 hours of just the one light), but you shouldn't
run it that dead. From dead it would take a 30w panel maybe two weeks
to get a full charge. See what I mean about not very much electricity?
It might be better to use a small generator instead of the solar panel
to charge your battery. This would allow you to run bigger stuff (like
power tools) while the generator was running, and have lights in peace
and quiet the rest of the time. You could add the charge controller
and solar later.
For now I strongly recommend you visit http://www.homepower.com/ and
read their current issue. Buy the back issues on CD. You will learn a
LOT and I'm confident you will find it to be money well spent.
sdb
--
Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Watch out for munged e-mail address.
User should be sylvan and host is cyberhighway.net.
Joel Davidson
trying to prove?) I quickly stopped using my coleman lantern because of its
annoying sound and switched to kerosene lamps with metal pie plates behind
them to bounce more reading light forward. If you dress the wick regularly
and filter the fuel through layers of cloth, you can get a fairly clean
burning flame. Flame is the important word. Every year uncounted fires are
the result of flames being used for lighting. Hot electric lights and bad
electric wiring also cause fires, but that's not the point. I woudn't go so
far as to say people who live in wooden boxes should not play with fire.
Just be prepared to put out the fire when it gets out of control.
Joel Davidson
Pettigrew, Arkansas on private land in the Ozark National Forest by the Little
Mulberry River from 1972 to 1982.
J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
> >I lived in the Ozarks for 2 years without electricity. (What the heck was I
> >trying to prove?)
>
> Where at in the Ozarks?
>
> I live in Missouri myself.
Lee & Sue
caused more catastrophic house fires than you want to know about.
Candles too.
But the oil lamp: just break that glass or spill that oil and you have
a nice little blaze going. Now try to react calmly to put the fire
out.
Try a 12 Volt system instead.
J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
>Say I buy some raw land with no services on it....
>no electricity or gas pipe line.
>
>And I decide to use candles or oil lamps (such as
>Petromax) for lighting.
>
John A
>Say I buy some raw land with no services on it....
>no electricity or gas pipe line.
>
>And I decide to use candles or oil lamps (such as
>Petromax) for lighting.
>
>How much emissions is there from such lamps like
>the Petromax?
>
>I have allergies and am concerned abt it.
>
>Are there any other ways to light a house without
>electric service on the land yet still use indoor
>electric lights with no emissions?
Last spring I spent some time trying out each of the following lamps
for indoor use:
Petromax, Propane single mantle (Century brand), Aladdin, and some
Cheap wick type lamps that you can purchase at WallMart. The
following are some of the opinions that I formed.
WICK LAMPS $5 FROM WALLMART:
--Fuel - Paraffin Oil ($3 for 22oz), Lamp oil ($6 for a gallon),
Kerosene ($1.50 for a gallon)
--Light Output - A little brighter than a candle. You can bearly read
by it if you sit close to the lamp. Will light an average size room
enough that you could see objects in the room and avoid tripping over
things on the floor. Paraffin oil produced more of a transparent
flame than Lamp oil and Kerosene. Kerosene gave off the most light
with a brighter "orange" flame, but the odor was unacceptable.
--Odor - Virtually none with Paraffin oil. Lamp oil gave off an odor,
but was still tolerable, Kerosene was very smelly and quickly gave
me a headache. Kerosene would also "smoke up" the chimney much
quicker.
--Noise - None
PROPANE SINGLE MANTLE $16
--Fuel - 16oz propane cylinders ($2 per cylinder). Can also buy
adapter to run off 20# cylinder tanks.
--Light output - About the same as a 75 Watt light. Very easy to read
by.
--Odor - None that I could detect.
--Noise - Gave off a constant hissing sound, annoying at first, but I
got use to it after awhile.
-- Comments -- My second choice for an indoor lamp.
ALADDIN LAMP $55 (Watchman model)
--Fuel - Paraffin, Lamp Oil, Kerosene
--Light output - After a little fine tuning and a tinfoil chimney
extension, I got about the same light as a 60 watt bulb, still very
easy to read by. All three fuel types burned equally bright.
--Odor -- Virtually none, even with Kerosene!! No need to burn the
more expensive paraffin and lamp oils. Apparently the lamp burns fuel
at such a high temperature that all the impurities that cause the odor
get burned off .
-- Noise - None
--Comments - My first choice for an indoor use. This lamp has been
used indoors in homes and cabins since the early part of the century.
Parts are readily available and are reasonably priced if you do a
little shopping around. One tank of fuel will burn for about 8 to 10
hours.
PETROMAX $99
--Fuel -- Paraffin, Lamp Oil, Kerosene or any other liquid that will
burn.
--Light output -- Very bright, the brightest of the four lamps that I
tried, although I don't think it is equivalent to 400 watts as they
claim. Obviously, this lamp would be very easy to read by.
--Odor - Very disappointing, Gave off more odor than all the rest of
the lamps, even with paraffin oil. Ten minutes in the house and we
had to open the windows to let it "air out". Makes me wonder if
something is not working properly. I spent some time checking over
the adjustments as listed in the manual, but everything I tried didn't
seem to make a difference. . Any Ideas or similar experiences out
there?
--Noise -The most noisiest of all the lamps I tested, a little too
noisy for me as and indoor lamp.
Comments - This would be a great lamp for outdoor use, where noise and
odor wouldn't be of concern. Got very tired pumping it up with the
standard tank mounted pump. The optional "EZ-Pump valve " that
replaces the tank mounted pump, allows you to easily and quickly pump
the tank to pressure with a tire pump. Well worth the $17 in my
opinion. On the plus side, this lamp has a quality look and feel
about it and will burn any liquid fuel that you have: gas, kerosene,
corn oil etc. I have even heard of someone trying used crankcase oil.
This lamp has also been around since the early part of the century,
but seems to be used mostly as and outdoor lamp from what I can
gather.
As with any indoor kerosene lamps or heaters, crack the window a bit
and buy a good CO detector. I personally like the Battery operated
LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) type that you can buy from Wallmart. The
batteries last about a year, and will let you monitor the CO levels
even when the power is out or no power is available. I used the
Aladdin and wick lamps indoors for several hours each night and never
had a problem with CO.
Hope this helps
John
Raymond Leistner
>
> PETROMAX $99
>
> --Fuel -- Paraffin, Lamp Oil, Kerosene or any other liquid that will
> burn.
>
how about used motor oil?
Fred McGalliard
J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
...
> OK.... well... it seems the consensus is to NOT
> use any fossil fuels for producing light. With
> propane lighting being the least problematic.
> True?
I thought propane was made from the normal fossil fuels, usually as a
byproduct of cracking oil?
> My idea is to buy a few acres of land..... and
> build some kind energy efficient shelter on it....
> dome, berm home, etc.... and get moved in it and
> build as time permits. IOW.... invest sweat equity
> AND build only what I NEED as far as space, rooms,
> etc.
Have you looked into the hay bale and compressed earth home
construction? There are a couple of web sites. These are less expensive,
extremely thermally insulated, and can be a start at just what you want.
Solar power and battery storage for 5 hours of lighting for a room or
two of a house should be pretty cheap. Other applications would include
natural gas heat and cooking, solar ovens during the summer, solar
drying rooms for clothing. These things make a lot of work for you, but
save scads of energy. If you have to go to bottled propane the
cost/benifit starts to drop off, but it saves you paying for a few
thousand feet of trench to bring utilities in. A big propane bottle is
more expensive than oil, but easier to use in a number of small
applications. Oil heat and a small propane bottle for just the stove may
make sense. Internal systems using flame are very very dangerous and
must be very carefully vented and inspected regularly. And the propane
can leak, fill up a basement, and blow up. Natural gas rises, but can
also cause explosions. I seem to recall even hearing of oil furnaces
exploding. A lot of folk have lived long lives with these sources
though, so you should be able to be comfortable with them, but never
take them for granted.
Duane C. Johnson
Raymond Leistner wrote:
>
> John A wrote:
> >
> > PETROMAX $99
> >
> > --Fuel -- Paraffin, Lamp Oil, Kerosene or any other liquid that will
> > burn.
> >
>
> how about used motor oil?
The Petromax has been reported to be able to burn
used motor oil. Filtered I presume to remove the
chunks. I would be careful though because I would
think there could be some lead in the exhaust from
bearing debris.
I have burned used canola cooking oil. Worked well.
Have fun!
--
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These are my opinions, and not that of Unisys Corp. ===
John A
wrote:
>John A wrote:
>>
>> PETROMAX $99
>>
>> --Fuel -- Paraffin, Lamp Oil, Kerosene or any other liquid that will
>> burn.
>>
>
>how about used motor oil?
I never tried it myself, but I heard it was possible. It would need
to be thinned out a bit with some kind of solvent and then passed
through a filter to remove any small pieces of debris that could cause
your petormax to plug up.
Fred McGalliard
J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
>...
> >Solar power and battery storage for 5 hours of lighting for a room or
> >two of a house should be pretty cheap. Other applications would include
> >natural gas heat and cooking, solar ovens during the summer, solar
> >drying rooms for clothing. These things make a lot of work for you, but
> >save scads of energy.
>
> Not sure I follow you. How does this make work
> for me?
Well, with an electric, or gas dryer, you heave the wet clothes in when
you get around to it, turn it on for an hour and take em out when you
please. With a solar drying room, aside from sacrificing some nice warm
inside space to a cloths rack, you hang clothes there when the sun
shines, you wait longer, and if the weather is really nasty out, you may
have a very long wait for dry clothes. A solar oven requires that you
set up your food generally before noon, and make a place in your busy
yard for this boxy contraption, then either be back in time to pick the
food out, or only cook food that can sit and stew for a long time. It
does kind of limit you, your day, how you use your yard, your house, and
how quickly you can cook for guests, or dry out the kids rain soaked
clothing. None of this is untractable, but it is all just a bit
demanding.
Fred McGalliard
Connect house, order of 2-10 thousand if there is a line in your
neighborhood.
Large propane bottle, regulators, plumbing, safety inspections, etc.,
Sounds like a $4-$5 thousand dollar installation, and then the refill is
about twice the cost of natural gas, per btu, as I recall. I just ment
that the cost to go natural gas is an easy winner only if you don't have
to pay installation. Otherwise it may win after a few years, since it is
cheaper, but it's a lot closer to a push.
J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
>
> > If you have to go to bottled propane the
> >cost/benifit starts to drop off, but it saves you paying for a few
> >thousand feet of trench to bring utilities in.
>
> How so?
J63...@nemonet.comspamno
>Connect house, order of 2-10 thousand if there is a line in your
>neighborhood.
Friend of mine just built a home "out in the
sticks" here in northeast Missouri.
He tells me that the power company will run
service (poles, wires, etc) back to your property
for no charge other than that you will become a
customer.
Given this..... would it be cheaper to build small
energy efficient house (bermed or straw bale)....
and use a geothermal system for backup or primary
heat/cooling source??
J63...@nemonet.comspamno
>> for me?
>
>Well, with an electric, or gas dryer, you heave the wet clothes in when
>you get around to it, turn it on for an hour and take em out when you
>please. With a solar drying room, aside from sacrificing some nice warm
>inside space to a cloths rack, you hang clothes there when the sun
>shines, you wait longer, and if the weather is really nasty out, you may
>have a very long wait for dry clothes
Ahhh.... OK.... now I see what you mean.
BTW.... do you have any links to some pictures
online of "solar drying rooms"?
rbo...@fastlane.net
the gas flowing in the line. IASHTF, (A=any), you have control
over the 500 gal tank in the back yard. You can regulate the
house temp, ect.
Off topic - depending on where you are in the country, bringing
in an electrical line if you are off the grid, can run up to
$25,000.
On Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:49:16 GMT, Fred McGalliard
<frederick.b...@boeing.com> wrote:
>House already hooked up to natural gas, very inexpensive. Pay and burn.
>Connect house, order of 2-10 thousand if there is a line in your
>neighborhood.
>Large propane bottle, regulators, plumbing, safety inspections, etc.,
>Sounds like a $4-$5 thousand dollar installation, and then the refill is
>about twice the cost of natural gas, per btu, as I recall. I just ment
>that the cost to go natural gas is an easy winner only if you don't have
>to pay installation. Otherwise it may win after a few years, since it is
>cheaper, but it's a lot closer to a push.
>
>J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
>>
>> > If you have to go to bottled propane the
>> >cost/benifit starts to drop off, but it saves you paying for a few
>> >thousand feet of trench to bring utilities in.
>>
>> How so?
>>
>> John
>> ---------------
>> Remove SPAMNO from address to reply
Rick Bowen
TSRA Life Member #073009
NRA Annual
FWS
> in an electrical line if you are off the grid, can run up to
> $25,000.
FWIW mine quoted at 1480'/$6500 if I dug the trench,provided conduit and
gravel as nessary,got me to my front yard.
John Galt
data, but oil lamps caused the SF earthquake!? Get real! LOL
Maybe you mean the subsequent fire was due to smashed oil lamps? Even so,
I don't think the millions of deaths can be attributed to the lamps.
Dave Marciniak wrote:
> Yes.
>
> According to the EPA, burning oil lamps caused 15,796 deaths last year,
> and that's not counting the 23,417 burned alive by oil lamps.
>
> Oil lamps cause measles in 4% of the population and are generally credited
> with the Middle Ages bubonic plagiue.
>
> Furthermore, oil lamps are believed to be the main culprit in dengue fever
> in Africa, and unaware Americans in that country see a death rate of 98.7%
> from that source.
>
> Oil lamps are blamed for starting the great San Francisco earthquake in
> 1906, where 176,654,564 American citizens died.
>
> In 1832, 75 American citizens died on the east coast when humpback whales
> jumped out of the water and crushed Sam's Hole in the Seaside tavern,
> thinking the burning lamps, burning whale oil, was a call to go west. Two
> whales were injured but none died.
>
> All in all, avoid oil lamps unless you've been checked out by Olive Oyl.
--
John Galt
"If we have the potential to create a Utopia,
why do we often resemble a primitive society?"
gal...@starwarp.com http://www.starwarp.com/The_Observatory
All rights reserved Copyright (c) 1998 by John Galt
(Remove NOSPAM from address when sending email)
Dave Marciniak
Joel Davidson
occasionally need a good jab in the ribs. I imagine they'll go crazy when they
carefully read their solar module manual and find in small print "Warranty
void if installed in direct sunlight."
Madfred
Hello...
Madfred
John Galt wrote in message <37B4FACD...@starwarp.com>...
>Okay, I'm willing to concede to most of this due to lack of contradictory
>data, but oil lamps caused the SF earthquake!? Get real! LOL
> Maybe you mean the subsequent fire was due to smashed oil lamps? Even
so,
>I don't think the millions of deaths can be attributed to the lamps.
>
>Dave Marciniak wrote:
>
>> Yes.
>>
>> According to the EPA, burning oil lamps caused 15,796 deaths last year,
>> and that's not counting the 23,417 burned alive by oil lamps.
>>
>> Oil lamps cause measles in 4% of the population and are generally
credited
>> with the Middle Ages bubonic plagiue.
>>
>> Furthermore, oil lamps are believed to be the main culprit in dengue
fever
>> in Africa, and unaware Americans in that country see a death rate of
98.7%
>> from that source.
>>
>> Oil lamps are blamed for starting the great San Francisco earthquake in
>> 1906, where 176,654,564 American citizens died.
>>
>> In 1832, 75 American citizens died on the east coast when humpback whales
>> jumped out of the water and crushed Sam's Hole in the Seaside tavern,
>> thinking the burning lamps, burning whale oil, was a call to go west. Two
>> whales were injured but none died.
>>
>> All in all, avoid oil lamps unless you've been checked out by Olive Oyl.
>
Madfred
John Galt
to know?
William Harvey
wrote:
>I figured as much, but, hey, with the number of looneytunes out there, how was I
>to know?
>
There are a bunch of "looneytunes" out here and it gets worse every
year however the numbers themselves should have been a clue. For
instance, look at how many were killed in the SF earthquake of 1906. I
don't know if that was the year or how many were killed but the entire
US didn't have that many citizens back then.
William Harvey
wha...@aye.net
Hon M de C
isg...@my-deja.com
t...@sccoast.net wrote:
> J63...@nemonet.comSPAMNO wrote:
> > Say I buy some raw land with no services on it....
> > no electricity or gas pipe line.
> > I have allergies and am concerned abt it.
Your buying "raw land" and have allergies and are worried about
candles and oil lamps. If you allergies are bad enough to worry about
candle and lamps, then raw land is not for you.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Warren Lauzon
to have a lot of that.
----------------------------------------------------------
<J63...@spamyuk.com> wrote in message
news:37c1679f...@news.nemonet.com...
> >Your buying "raw land" and have allergies and are worried about
> >candles and oil lamps. If you allergies are bad enough to worry about
> >candle and lamps, then raw land is not for you.
>
> Do you think allergy causing particles are any
> less in the city?
>
> ---------
> Please keep all replies in the news group
> unless you absolutely must email me. Thanks
>
> John