Shelf Life of Water???
Ovid
water to last? I am packing a gallon in two half-gallon jugs as part of my
vehicular BOB. I was thinking of cycling this out every 3 months. Is this
frequent enough? I live in Texas (hot summers, mildly cold winters). The
jugs would be stored in my trunk in a black car. As always, your
comments/expertise is appreciated...
-O
Strider
I put a few drops of bleach in the water I store in the car and toss
and refill at the start of every season, winter excluded, as it will
freeze here. I can drink it just fine as is or I can open and let the
chlorine evaporate over about 30 minutes for better taste. The bleach
(and be sure there is no other chemisty in the bleach but sodium
hypochlorite) should prevent most bacterial contamination.
BTW, don't buy dehydrated water. It just doesn't have the same
healthful attributes. ;-)
Strider
H. McDaniel
Let the water sit still for at least 24 hours in a dark place before putting
it in the car. You may get some funny problems with the jugs because
the pressure in them is going to vary depending on the weather and
where you've been driving. 2 liters (the kind used for soft drinks) hold
up well but I don't know how milk jugs will do.
If I were you I'd do some testing as far as the strength of the jugs goes
over time.
As far as the "shelf life of water", the real question is how long
will the container last? Will the plastic leech into the water and
how long does it take? Will the seal be good or leaking? I don't
know as far as the type of jugs you want to use goes but I definitely
know that those 2 liter bottles I mentioned, sealed with wax can
keep water for years.
-McDaniel
Ovid
threshold. Can you recommend any filtration/purification systems? I was
intending to fill these jugs with purified water from my local grocery
store; is it still necessary to filter this water if I'm only storing it
for 3 months? Can you reference any third party sources for water
purification?
Thanks in advance, LG!
-O
"Lawrence Glickman" <lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:47umqusnqoko12dhd...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:02:40 -0500, "Ovid" <Ov...@Epigram.com> wrote:
>
> Your biggest problem will be with micro organisms growing in the
> water.
>
> They are in there, and will multiply, like bacteria.
>
> Suggest you *treat* you water before/after with some mechanical
> filtration at the zero point two micron level.
>
> Lg
>
>
Ovid
chlorine evaporate from an aqueous solution when it is exposed to the
atmosphere?
I have 3 years formal education in chemistry and don't ever recall reading
that chlorine evaporates from solution...? Have you tested this? Please
let me know...
-O
"Strider" <str...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:3avmquc98mul18gfu...@4ax.com...
Ovid
"H. McDaniel" <Cut_off_Xs_to_Rep...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:3DAB8B65...@yahoo.com...
> Ovid wrote:
>
> > Sorry if this is a silly question, but how long can I expect my
untreated
> > water to last? I am packing a gallon in two half-gallon jugs as part of
my
> > vehicular BOB. I was thinking of cycling this out every 3 months. Is
this
> > frequent enough? I live in Texas (hot summers, mildly cold winters).
The
> > jugs would be stored in my trunk in a black car. As always, your
> > comments/expertise is appreciated...
>
> Let the water sit still for at least 24 hours in a dark place before
putting
> it in the car.
Why in the dark?
You may get some funny problems with the jugs because
> the pressure in them is going to vary depending on the weather and
> where you've been driving. 2 liters (the kind used for soft drinks) hold
> up well but I don't know how milk jugs will do.
These are miniature versions of the 5-gallon jugs Sparkletts and Arrowhead
provide. They are very sturdy.
>
> If I were you I'd do some testing as far as the strength of the jugs goes
> over time.
>
> As far as the "shelf life of water", the real question is how long
> will the container last? Will the plastic leech into the water and
> how long does it take? Will the seal be good or leaking? I don't
> know as far as the type of jugs you want to use goes but I definitely
> know that those 2 liter bottles I mentioned, sealed with wax can
> keep water for years.
It is really no trouble to change out a gallon of water once every 3 months,
but I love the idea of sealing it with wax.
Thanks...
-O
>
> -McDaniel
>
Johnny Yuma
Clorox.com | Natural Disaster Preparedness Guide</A>
From the website:
"
Bleach Method:
When boiling water is not possible, filter
water, letting particles settle out. Pour off clear water. Add
regular household liquid bleach (5.25% sodium hypochlorite,
such as Clorox bleach -- not scented or colorsafe), as
follows:
• 4 drops regular liquid bleach per quart of water
• 16 drops regular liquid bleach per gallon of water
• 1 teaspoon regular liquid bleach per 5 gallons of
water
• Mix well; wait 30 minutes.Water should have a slight
bleach odor. If not, repeat and wait 15 more minutes.
***************************************************
Johnny
A man should know: How to change a tire, a diaper, and a woman's mind.Trouble
when he sees it.True love when he feels it.A load of bull when he hears it.The
symptoms of PMS and how to deal with them.How to unhook a bra with one hand-in
the dark.
Jeffrey C. Dege
>A few drops...? Is this tap water? Is a 'few drops' enough? Why would the
>chlorine evaporate from an aqueous solution when it is exposed to the
>atmosphere?
>I have 3 years formal education in chemistry and don't ever recall reading
>that chlorine evaporates from solution...? Have you tested this? Please
>let me know...
It's common knowledge among people who keep aquariums.
But think about it. What's the boiling point of chlorine? Well below
that of water. So chlorine dissolved in water will evaporate until the
concentration of chlorine in the air is saturated.
What's the concentration of chlorine in the atmosphere? Well below
saturation.
--
I keep meeting people who claim that there is no objective reality,
but I have yet to see one of them step in front of a bus.
hghigyuit7
with storage time. But wine has also enabled people for ages to assure a
safe drinking supply.
What I don't know is exactly how this works. Is there enough liquid in wine
ot avoid water altogether? Can wine be mixed off with bad water to make the
mix good? I know alcohol will kill harmful micro organisms. But what alcohol
level for how long is required?
I really like the idea of wine stocks as survival stocks :)
"Ovid" <Ov...@Epigram.com> wrote in message
news:8R6dnTsPisu...@News.GigaNews.Com...
Jeffrey C. Dege
>I love brewing wine, in part because it's one of the few things that improve
>with storage time. But wine has also enabled people for ages to assure a
>safe drinking supply.
>
>What I don't know is exactly how this works. Is there enough liquid in wine
>ot avoid water altogether? Can wine be mixed off with bad water to make the
>mix good? I know alcohol will kill harmful micro organisms. But what alcohol
>level for how long is required?
The Roman legions used to mix water and vinegar 50/50.
--
What? Me .sig?
Frank White
Cut_off_Xs_to_Rep...@yahoo.com says...
>
>Ovid wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this is a silly question, but how long can I expect my untreated
>> water to last? I am packing a gallon in two half-gallon jugs as part of
my
>> vehicular BOB. I was thinking of cycling this out every 3 months. Is
this
>> frequent enough? I live in Texas (hot summers, mildly cold winters).
The
>> jugs would be stored in my trunk in a black car. As always, your
>> comments/expertise is appreciated...
>
>Let the water sit still for at least 24 hours in a dark place before
putting
>it in the car. You may get some funny problems with the jugs because
>the pressure in them is going to vary depending on the weather and
>where you've been driving. 2 liters (the kind used for soft drinks) hold
>up well but I don't know how milk jugs will do.
Milk jugs are ok (when thoroughly rinsed out, of course) but they
don't really seal well.
I'm experimenting with VERY thoroughly rinsed out bleach jugs.
They're strong, and seal tight: Main problem is, I don't know
what might leach into the water from the plastic over time...
FW
PnL
were the bulk of what people drank on a daily basis. Just look to Europe...
"hghigyuit7" <hghig...@123.com> wrote in message
news:GXMq9.37101$qb.1...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Frank White
says...
I believe New Hampshire Rvolutionary War soldiers were given a
pint of vinegar a day for antiseptic and water purification
purposes.
I don't think wine is good as a water source because the
alcohol will dehydrate you. And while you can use wine as
a mild antiseptic, I think water purification pills would
be better as a means of making potable water.
FW
Paul Thomas Ivy
>
> BTW, don't buy dehydrated water. It just doesn't have the same
> healthful attributes. ;-)
How about the freeze-dried?
snatchitup
In terms of extended shelf life, I think you need to worry more about
what the container does to the water. I've heard different things
about plastic. Somebody once told me that plastic "evapourates" over
time in miniscule amounts, but certainly you wouldn't want this to
build up inside the water. With that said, I think the best form of
storage is glass. Try to find a glass container that you can
sterilize via the dishwasher. Try to find a cap made of the most
durable materials.
Also, I was listening to a radio show for New York City residents.
After 911, many are putting together BOB's. One good point was brought
up. Just in case the reason for buggin out is Nuclear in nature, you
want to surround your stuff with reflective materials. They act as
shields. Tin-foil will cut down huge amounts of radioactivity. It
will block everything about 100% except gamma rays, though, it will
attenuate gamma rays substantially.
For New Yorkers, they were saying the purpose of the BOB was to help
you get out of the city. A car would be useless since the streets
would be completely clogged. They went on to list several vitamins
that were important to take in elevated dosage to help fight radiation
sickness.
Nick Hull
<lgli...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:02:40 -0500, "Ovid" <Ov...@Epigram.com> wrote:
>
> Your biggest problem will be with micro organisms growing in the
> water.
>
> They are in there, and will multiply, like bacteria.
>
> Suggest you *treat* you water before/after with some mechanical
> filtration at the zero point two micron level.
>
> Lg
I store untreated spring water for many months with zero problems. It is
kept DARK inside a SS tank and NEVER seems to go bad. The micro organisms
need light to grow.
I have kept water long term in 2-liter pop bottles by wrapping in Al foil
to keep it absolutely dark.
--
Free men own guns - slaves don't
http://www.geocities.com/nickhull99
Len
>> healthful attributes. ;-)
>How about the freeze-dried?
It will lose its flavor in the frying pan.
John Misrahi
storage...they didn't use iodine... silver rings a bell but i don't remember
the details/brand name
it was recommended for RV water tanks etc..
John
Nick Hull wrote in message ...
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>Also, I was listening to a radio show for New York City residents.
>After 911, many are putting together BOB's. One good point was brought
>up. Just in case the reason for buggin out is Nuclear in nature, you
>want to surround your stuff with reflective materials. They act as
>shields. Tin-foil will cut down huge amounts of radioactivity. It
>will block everything about 100% except gamma rays, though, it will
>attenuate gamma rays substantially.
Foil will block alpha and beta particles, but nearly anything will.
It won't do a damned thing to gamma rays.
--
Pooh's Law of Self-Discovery: Eliminate all the outside influences,
and whatever remains, however improbable, must be yourself.
H. McDaniel
> "H. McDaniel" <Cut_off_Xs_to_Rep...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message news:3DAB8B65...@yahoo.com...
> > Ovid wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry if this is a silly question, but how long can I expect my
> untreated
> > > water to last? I am packing a gallon in two half-gallon jugs as part of
> my
> > > vehicular BOB. I was thinking of cycling this out every 3 months. Is
> this
> > > frequent enough? I live in Texas (hot summers, mildly cold winters).
> The
> > > jugs would be stored in my trunk in a black car. As always, your
> > > comments/expertise is appreciated...
> >
> > Let the water sit still for at least 24 hours in a dark place before
> putting
> > it in the car.
>
> Why in the dark?
1. Bio degradeable plastics break down in sunlight. Even limited exposure
to indirect sunlight weakens the material -- even if you don't immediately notice
it.
2. I imagine that some bugs like sunlight too.
[....]
> It is really no trouble to change out a gallon of water once every 3 months,
> but I love the idea of sealing it with wax.
If I were you - and I ain't of course -- I'd just use 2 liter bottles. Fill and
forget for 6+ years. Check google for postings by me and others for how-to.
-McDaniel
j
> Just a heads up. Milk jugs suck for anything other than very short
> term storage in a stable environment. They are designed to degrade
> over a very short time period. Those of us who live in the desert with
> wide temp swings have found out many years ago that they become stiff
> and then crack to pieces in short order (6 months) and become fragile
> in much less time. Soft drink bottles are great. The 3 liter off
> brands with the wide mouths are great for everything from beans to
> beer. I keep 4 in my black truck, in the desert, and have yet to
> change out or have one leak in over 4 yrs time. And they bounce.
> >
> Gunner
>
>
> "You don't have a right to deny someone else's right to self defense."
> Lee Harrison/Weasel, 6-30-2002
Gunner,
Due to lots of kids, I have to buy apple juice (Musselman's) and have been
buying some in very heavy plastic bottles. I clean them and use them for my
inside water storage. Will this work long term? I change out the water once
a year. They are rectangular shaped so I put them double wide then put a
board on top, it is easy to get 36 gallons or more in the corner of the
closet.
Frugal
phatmike
Hash: SHA1
shizzle my fizzle, fwhite*NOSPAM*@colfax.com izzoed this izzay :
>I'm experimenting with VERY thoroughly rinsed out bleach jugs.
>They're strong, and seal tight: Main problem is, I don't know
>what might leach into the water from the plastic over time...
on the subject of bottles -- i've been using fuji (or is it fiji?)
brand spring water bottles for good while with no regrets. the
specific bottles i'm talking about are .5 litres -- i know, tiny, but
they're rectangleish, not round, with a flat bottom so they fit great
side by side without much wasted space. a pair of them fit perfectly
in one of my radio pouches on my pistol belt so they see a lot of
action on the trail... they're not as convienent as a camel back,
but they're surely less cumbersome than many other options out there.
they seem rather sturdy, a bit heavier than soda bottles. i've been
using the same rotated 12 bottles on a daily basis[1] for a good 6-8
months and there's no damage to the bottles.
as for long term storage, i've been meaning to make some sort of a holster
or rack so i can have an array of them (hehe) in the trunk of the car to
replace the poor bottles i have in there now. i'm thinking a bunch of them
would fit perfectly in the wheelwells and should stay put with some tight
netting or something. i donno, i know it seems like a silly idea, but i'm
thinking it'd be a bit more flexible to have a lot of smaller bottles at
hand, rather than one large unwieldy one -- or maybe it's best to have
both. shrug.
they come in 6 packs and they're more expensive than other brands of
bottled water but these bottles are more than worth it imo. they also
have 1.5 litre bottles which are only about as sturdy as a 2 litre soda
bottle, but they're the same rectangileish shape, so they STAY PUT a bit
better on the front seat of the car... ;)
[1] - i use the as squeeze bottles with sports caps attached so they get
a good workout. ice mountain brand sport bottle caps fit on the .5
litre bottles with no leakage.
-mike
np: nothing
- --
phat...@zer0gsounds.com [no longer known as rewt/noid/r3wt]
http://connect.to/chasm gpg key id : 0x2D93FB7F
<reptile-> The first time hypr opened a box of Cheerios and looked
inside he yelled, "OH WOW! DONUT SEEDS!"
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=LGBe
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Strabo
There is wine vinegar (from grapes) and there is white vinegar
(from some other fermentable).
The ancients used various combinations.
http://www.versatilevinegar.org/
A very important medicine/food/preservative.
Depending on its strength vinegar can be *very* antiseptic.
Vinegar has many uses. Among those is as a pH agent to make the body
less alkaline and thus improve the immune system. Another is that
certain microorgs die quickly in such an acid environment so it never hurts
to add to suspicious water.
A tablespoon or two of commercial white vinegar a day is a good idea for
everyone.
Shelf life - indefinite.
Three dietary items that the Romans had that ensured health - garlic, vinegar
and olive oil. These three should be on all survivalist's shelves.
Benjamin Liu
>
> Milk jugs are ok (when thoroughly rinsed out, of course) but they
> don't really seal well.
>
> I'm experimenting with VERY thoroughly rinsed out bleach jugs.
> They're strong, and seal tight: Main problem is, I don't know
> what might leach into the water from the plastic over time...
>
> FW
At water stores you can buy heavy duty 1 gal water jugswhich are
thicker than milk jugs and not biodegradable. I use these and 2-Liter
soda bottles. The oldest ones I have are from 1998 and there are no
leaks.
Frank White
VF1...@yahoo.com says...
How do they compare with the heavy plastic jugs that vinegar
comes in? (I *know* those are food grade plastic, and the
ones I've got don't seem to be degrading at all...)
FW
Paul Thomas Ivy
Not if you add tabasco sauce.
Benjamin Liu
> comes in? (I *know* those are food grade plastic, and the
> ones I've got don't seem to be degrading at all...)
>
> FW
Those work well too. I also use them (mine had apple juice in them)
as part of my water storage program. The advantage of the containers
I wrote about is that you don't have to get the taste of whatever was
in the containers out and they are easier to store. IIRC the
origninal poster was the same one who lives in an apartment, so this
would work better for him. 4 of these containers can fit in a file
box, and in my closet I can fit file boxes 2 deep and 2 or 3 high,
depending on what is hanging over them. They can also be placed in
small places around the house.
The barrels are more cost effective if you have the room. They cost
me $18.00 each for a 55 gal barrel as opposed to the $1.00 each for
the 1 gal jugs. Of course if you drink soda 2 liter bottles are
"free." I have a large book case (the size of 4 regular cases) filled
with these. I have them stacked on top of each other laying on their
sides. I get 23 per shelf on 12 shelves. The bottom shelves are used
for larger containers.
Gunner
>>
>>
>> "You don't have a right to deny someone else's right to self defense."
>> Lee Harrison/Weasel, 6-30-2002
>
>Gunner,
>Due to lots of kids, I have to buy apple juice (Musselman's) and have been
>buying some in very heavy plastic bottles. I clean them and use them for my
>inside water storage. Will this work long term? I change out the water once
>a year. They are rectangular shaped so I put them double wide then put a
>board on top, it is easy to get 36 gallons or more in the corner of the
>closet.
>Frugal
>
Yes. And the rectangular bottles are a great thing for storage.
Gunner
This Message is guaranteed environmentally friendly
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Meets all EPA regulations for clean air
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Use the Message with confidance.
(Some settling may occure in transit.)
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Jon Danniken
>
> BTW, don't buy dehydrated water. It just doesn't have the same
> healthful attributes. ;-)
It should also be pointed out to avoid water containing the deadly chemical di-hydrogen monoxide (DHMO); untold millions have died over the centuries from an overdose of this. There are currently no water purification systems available to remove this chemical from water; the result of an organized campaign of top industrial chemical producers, no doubt. DHMO is produced by many mechanisms, especially the burning of fossil fuels; even the very air that you breath is laden with it!
Jon
C~
water (unless I missed it). I have several gallons of distilled water -
they are unopened, how long will those last? (they are subject to a little
sunlight)
C~
"Ovid" <Ov...@Epigram.com> wrote in message
news:8R6dnTsPisu...@News.GigaNews.Com...
> Sorry if this is a silly question, but how long can I expect my untreated
> water to last? I am packing a gallon in two half-gallon jugs as part of
my
> vehicular BOB. I was thinking of cycling this out every 3 months. Is
this
> frequent enough? I live in Texas (hot summers, mildly cold winters). The
> jugs would be stored in my trunk in a black car. As always, your
> comments/expertise is appreciated...
> -O
>
>
side...@mindspring.com
If I had a lot of spare time I'd like to go back and see the ratio
between the number of water threads and the number of times this is
brought up.
j
> >Gunner,
> >Due to lots of kids, I have to buy apple juice (Musselman's) and have
been
> >buying some in very heavy plastic bottles. I clean them and use them for
my
> >inside water storage. Will this work long term? I change out the water
once
> >a year. They are rectangular shaped so I put them double wide then put a
> >board on top, it is easy to get 36 gallons or more in the corner of the
> >closet.
> >Frugal
> >
> Yes. And the rectangular bottles are a great thing for storage.
>
> Gunner
>
spaces and stack wonderfully. We lack storage space so it is a help.
Frugal
Strabo
You're in the wrong NG to make use of that one. :-)
Strabo
C~ wrote:
>
> OK, I have read the posts on this subject and no one has mentioned distilled
> water (unless I missed it). I have several gallons of distilled water -
> they are unopened, how long will those last? (they are subject to a little
> sunlight)
> C~
Distilled water is prone to the same potential of contamination as any other
method. Water must sealed and kept away from light. Its also good to put
a little clorox in the container to kill organisms.
H. McDaniel
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> shizzle my fizzle, fwhite*NOSPAM*@colfax.com izzoed this izzay :
>
> >I'm experimenting with VERY thoroughly rinsed out bleach jugs.
> >They're strong, and seal tight: Main problem is, I don't know
> >what might leach into the water from the plastic over time...
>
BTW, if you leave bleach exposed to air long enough it will turn to salt.
-McDaniel
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>BTW, if you leave bleach exposed to air long enough it will turn to salt.
A salt, yes, but not table salt. Calcium chloride, not sodium chloride.
--
Windows2000 - from the people who brought you edlin.
Benjamin Liu
> fwhite*NOSPAM*@colfax.com (Frank White) wrote in message
> >
> > How do they compare with the heavy plastic jugs that vinegar
> > comes in? (I *know* those are food grade plastic, and the
> > ones I've got don't seem to be degrading at all...)
> >
> > FW
I misread your post last night. I thought you meant the 55 gal
barrels. What you are using should work though.
Ed Argo
"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:e1vqqu07nrrv1o8n4...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:06:40 GMT, "j" <jbk...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>
> >>
> >> "You don't have a right to deny someone else's right to self defense."
> >> Lee Harrison/Weasel, 6-30-2002
> >
> >Gunner,
> >Due to lots of kids, I have to buy apple juice (Musselman's) and have
been
> >buying some in very heavy plastic bottles. I clean them and use them for
my
> >inside water storage. Will this work long term? I change out the water
once
> >a year. They are rectangular shaped so I put them double wide then put a
> >board on top, it is easy to get 36 gallons or more in the corner of the
> >closet.
> >Frugal
> >
> Yes. And the rectangular bottles are a great thing for storage.
>
> Gunner
What's the shelf life of the juice which is almost all water with food
value to boot?
Ed Argo
www.poormansy2k.com
Take control of your survival
j
> What's the shelf life of the juice which is almost all water with food
> value to boot?
>
family, stockpiling this isn't practical. I only buy 8-10 gallons at a time.
:o)
Frugal Housewife
Thank you for contacting us regarding the coding of our Musselman's Apple
Juice.
We would like to point out that our apple juice is a shelf stable product.
Currently, the containers are marked with a manufacturer code. The shelf
life of apple juice in the metal and plastic container is 18-24 months and
24-36 months for the glass container. The product will still be wholesome
after that time but the color and flavor may not be as good as fresher pack
product. The juice should not spoil as long as the seal is intacted.
Storage conditions are also important to the color and flavor quality; and,
if you are in an area where normal storage temperatures are above 80o F.,
then the color may darken and flavor not be as good in a shorter timeframe.
We hope this supplies you with the information you are seeking. Please let
us know if you should have any other questions regarding our quality fruit
products.
Karan Hoffman
Consumer Response Coordinator