The making of a solvern state
Dauven Family
Now I know this sounds like science fiction, but I would like general
comment on this.
I know that some of you guys have heard of seamounts. These are
mountains that rise up from the ocean floor up to within a few hundred
feet of the surface of the ocean. Now what would happen if some
enterprising person with more money than brains, loaded a drag line
excavation device on a barge an positioned it over a sea mount. Then
using the drag line he dreged up sufficient material to break the
surface of the ocean. Now assumeing that this is in tropical oceans,
the corals would start to grow and then then impor mangrove trees to
build even more land. With the drag line, the mangrove trees, and coral
the Island would be self perpetuating. Once dry land appeared he
delclared the land a solvern state of whatever, complete with a code of
laws and a government. Now apply of admission to the United Nations so
to get some protection from the world community. Next open banks for
the laundring of money and as a haven for property that tax dodgers
around the world. Then no extridition with any state and with now sea
ports or airstrips, and all the waters mined to prevent access by
anything larger than a row boat. Just wonder what would happen. There
I go with dangerous thingking again.
Jim in Ore.
Metalryder
>>Jim Writes
Why go through all the trouble of making a new island? Why not just buy
one of the many little islands that dot the Pacific ocean? As to your
idea? Some overbearing overconfident government would squash your dream
as soon as they got wind of it.
James
Survivalist
Militia member
Dauven Family
Metalryder wrote:
> Why go through all the trouble of making a new island? Why not just buy
> one of the many little islands that dot the Pacific ocean? As to your
> idea? Some overbearing overconfident government would squash your dream
> as soon as they got wind of it.
>
> James
> Survivalist
> Militia member
The problem with buying land is that in the final analysis the land you
buy eventhough you hold title to it still belongs to some governemnt.
The beauty of new land is that there is not government that has a prior
claim to it. So if you delcare your self a citizen to the solvern state
of New poop on the planet earth, who the hell is going to argu with
you. But you are probably right, the last thing a King wants is to see
one of his former subjects declare himself king. After all, it set a
bad president you know, serf thinging they can form and run a government
better than us professional government leaders.
Gott'a keep them riff raff from getting uppity you know.
Jim in Ore.
richie
What does "solvern" mean?
Jim Kleinschmit
Metalryder (metal...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>Jim Writes
: Now I know this sounds like science fiction, but I would like general
: comment on this.
: I know that some of you guys have heard of seamounts. These are
: mountains that rise up from the ocean floor up to within a few hundred
: feet of the surface of the ocean. Now what would happen if some
: enterprising person with more money than brains, loaded a drag line
: excavation device on a barge an positioned it over a sea mount. Then
: using the drag line he dreged up sufficient material to break the
: surface of the ocean. Now assumeing that this is in tropical oceans,
: the corals would start to grow and then then impor mangrove trees to
: build even more land. With the drag line, the mangrove trees, and coral
: the Island would be self perpetuating. Once dry land appeared he
: delclared the land a solvern state of whatever, complete with a code of
: laws and a government. Now apply of admission to the United Nations so
: to get some protection from the world community. Next open banks for
: the laundring of money and as a haven for property that tax dodgers
: around the world. Then no extridition with any state and with now sea
: ports or airstrips, and all the waters mined to prevent access by
: anything larger than a row boat. Just wonder what would happen. There
: I go with dangerous thingking again.
: Jim in Ore.<<
: Why go through all the trouble of making a new island? Why not just buy
: one of the many little islands that dot the Pacific ocean? As to your
: idea? Some overbearing overconfident government would squash your dream
: as soon as they got wind of it.
:
: James
: Survivalist
: Militia member
:
---
When I was researching deserted islands I came accross an article where
a person, with a dredger I believe, started building his own island. It
states that he worked on it right up to the moment a small force from
the island of Tonga put a stop to it.
Jim Kleinschmit
---
--
Jim Kleinschmit
atDarren (gonadozemail.com.au) wrote:
: x-no-archive: yes
:
: Dauven Family <jam...@spnt.com> wrote:
:
:snip snip
:
: What calibre of people are you trying to attract?
:
: >I go with dangerous thingking again.
: >Jim in Ore.
:
This project should satisfy and tickle your imagination.
Jim Kleinschmit
---
:
:
:
:
:
:
: _______________________________________________________________
: **Not all posts are received here - Email if it's important.**
:
--
pyotr filipivich
}>comment on this.
}>I know that some of you guys have heard of seamounts. These are
}>mountains that rise up from the ocean floor up to within a few hundred
}>feet of the surface of the ocean. Now what would happen if some
}>enterprising person with more money than brains, loaded a drag line
}>excavation device on a barge an positioned it over a sea mount. Then
}>using the drag line he dreged up sufficient material to break the
}>surface of the ocean. Now assumeing that this is in tropical oceans,
}>the corals would start to grow and then then impor mangrove trees to
}I assume this is a LONG term plan if you're going to wait for coral to "build
}even more land". I'm sure your grandchildren would be appreciative though.
Long term.
Long, long, _long_ term.
Them sea mounds are very often former volcanic islands that have
eroded below current sealevel. Probably the best example is the
Hawaiian islands - stretching from Kure atoll (just west of Midway) east
and south to Hawaii (and the new volcano coming up SE of Hilo) - Kure is
about gone, Hawaii has enough altitude to ocassionaly get frost at the
summit. The hotspot responisble hasn't been doing anything about the
erosion anywhere but on the Big Island.
}>build even more land. With the drag line, the mangrove trees, and coral
}>the Island would be self perpetuating. Once dry land appeared he
}>delclared the land a solvern state of whatever, complete with a code of
}>laws and a government. Now apply of admission to the United Nations so
}>to get some protection from the world community. Next open banks for
Your thinking of trying to build your own version of the Spratly
Islands. "If you build it, they will come."
}I thought that one had to hand over huge amounts of money for the privilege(?)
}of United Nations membership.
}>the laundring of money and as a haven for property that tax dodgers
}>around the world. Then no extridition with any state and with now sea
}>ports or airstrips, and all the waters mined to prevent access by
}What calibre of people are you trying to attract?
He's thinking of Port Royal, just before the great Earthquake
pitched it into the sea. "A greater sink of inequity one will be hard
pressed to find."
}>anything larger than a row boat. Just wonder what would happen. There
}>I go with dangerous thingking again.
Wild ideas are one thing, half-cocked are another.
But an intersting one. Too bad the mechanics are agin ye.
--
pyotr filipivich, sometimes owl, Nikolai Petrovich in the SCA.
[Insert snappy sig line here]
[This line left blank]
Steven F. Scharff
Jim Kleinschmit <jkl...@tincan.tincan.org> wrote in article
<1996Dec27....@tincan.tincan.org>...
> Metalryder (metal...@aol.com) wrote:
> : >>Jim Writes
> : Now I know this sounds like science fiction, but I would like general
> : comment on this.
> : I know that some of you guys have heard of seamounts. These are
> : mountains that rise up from the ocean floor up to within a few hundred
> : feet of the surface of the ocean. Now what would happen if some
> : enterprising person with more money than brains, loaded a drag line
> : excavation device on a barge an positioned it over a sea mount. Then
> : using the drag line he dreged up sufficient material to break the
> : surface of the ocean. Now assumeing that this is in tropical oceans,
> : the corals would start to grow and then then impor mangrove trees to
> : build even more land. With the drag line, the mangrove trees, and
coral
> : the Island would be self perpetuating. Once dry land appeared he
> : delclared the land a solvern state of whatever, complete with a code of
> : laws and a government. Now apply of admission to the United Nations so
> : to get some protection from the world community. Next open banks for
> : the laundring of money and as a haven for property that tax dodgers
> : around the world. Then no extridition with any state and with now sea
> : ports or airstrips, and all the waters mined to prevent access by
> : anything larger than a row boat. Just wonder what would happen. There
> : I go with dangerous thingking again.
> : Jim in Ore.<<
> :
> : Why go through all the trouble of making a new island? Why not just
buy
> : one of the many little islands that dot the Pacific ocean? As to your
> : idea? Some overbearing overconfident government would squash your
dream
> : as soon as they got wind of it.
> :
> : James
> : Survivalist
> : Militia member
> :
> :
> ---
> When I was researching deserted islands I came accross an article where
> a person, with a dredger I believe, started building his own island. It
> states that he worked on it right up to the moment a small force from
> the island of Tonga put a stop to it.
>
> Jim Kleinschmit
You're referring to Michael J. Oliver's attempt of establishing a
Libertarian country on the Minerva Reefs (260 miles northeast of Tonga, at
179 deg. W./ 23 deg., 40 min, S). The whole story is detailed in "How To
Start Your Own Country" by Erwin S. Strauss (Loompanics Unlimited, Box
1197, Port Townsend, WA 98368 USA). The country was to be called "The
Republic of Minerva", and the most that was established was a small tower
with a flashing light and a Minervan (?) flag. Even a coin was minted. The
"35 Minervan Dollar Coin" was silver (24 grams) with an image of the
goddess Minerva sintered on with gold (10 grains). The King of Tonga
rounded up a "defense force" (taken from a collection of convicts), sailed
out to the reefs, knocked over the tower, played the Tonganese anthem, and
read a proclamation of ownership of the reefs. Oliver stated he had no idea
what the King wanted with them.
Recently, the King has started renting out the space over Tonga for
commercial satellites, so I guess he was thinking ahead.
Starting a country on a barge is nothing new. Leicester Hemmingway (Ernie's
kid brother) once attempted to start the Republic of New Atlantis on an
8x30 foot barge off of Jamaica's west coast.
Building platforms isn't new, either.
Georgio Rosa, an Italian engineering professor, built a platform 8 miles
off of the coast of Rimini, Italy. About 4,000 square feet big, it had a
bar, post office , and promenade. No one took any legal notice, until 1 May
1968, when he proclaimed the platform "Isle of the Roses". 55 days later,
Rosa was arrested for a litany of charges, ranging from maritime
obstruction, tax avoidance, and pornography. The platform was dynamited by
Navy frogmen in 1969. Rosa said he wouldn't try again because, "This
country (Italy) is all Mafia!"
However, Paddy Roy Bates (British fishing fleet owner, former radio pirate,
and accused tax evader) and his wife Jean (a fashion model), have had
better luck. Occupying an old gunnery platform (about as big as a baseball
diamond) in the English Channel, they started the Principality of Sealand.
"Prince Roy" and "Princess Jean" have issued stamps & coins, bestowed
titles, issued amateur radio licenses (unofficially using the prefix "S1")
and have fought off British authorities with rifles and Molotov cocktails.
Charges against them in British court fell through since their country (!)
was "outside British geographic jurisdiction". Officially, Bates and
company are occupying abandoned military property (i.e.: squatters who have
claimed salvage rights). Little has been heard from both the Bates' and
Sealand recently, so the present activity is a mystery.
Strauss' book details many attempts of sovereignty, from the serious
(Mollucas, Hutt River Province*), to the whimsical (Celestia,
Transcaucasia). It is a worthy and eye-opening read.
*Hutt River Province webpage at <http://www.wps.com.au/hutriver/hut1.htm>
There are a number of "micronation" and "model country" projects running,
ranging from serious attempts at sovereignty to diplomatic versions of
model railroads. Some with their own websites. A good source of links is
The Micronations Page:
<http://www.execpc.com/~talossa/patsilor.html>
Attempts at starting a new country are not new...getting official
recognition from existing ones is.
Keep in mind the ill-fated venture of Justus Township, and the current
dubious situation of the Republic of Texas**. Just because you say it's a
sovereign and free territory doesn't mean it will hold up in court!
**<http://web.republic-of-texas.by.net/rtx> or
<http://www.flash.net/~robertk/>
Care to try? Buy the book, do your research, "send lawyers, guns and money"
(to quote Warren Zevon), and I wish you the best of luck! (Believe me, you
_will_ be needing it!)
--
=======================
Steven F. Scharff <sch...@wizard.com> If returned as unsendable, forward
to <sfsc...@juno.com>
"The greatest disappointment is when you let yourself down." - Jennifer
Holzer
=======================