Stablizing dirt/gravel road
Mark H Bramhall
driveway is dirt with some 3/4 inch stone that has been put on it from tie
to time. This is great most of the year, but I'd like to do something more
to get us through mud season. The problem is not only driving over the
mud -- it is the damage done to the driveway.
What do people suggest? I saw a creative solution in England where a strong
steel mesh was laid down and grass allowed to grow up through it. I've never
seen that anywhere else. We'd like to preserve as much of the dirt road,
grass in the center, etc. as possible.
/s/ MarkB
Mark H Bramhall
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
What type of weather do you deal with? If you're in a freezing zone
you will have frost heave which is hard on roads. Here in N. Idaho we
use an underlayment which is essentially a strong cloth mesh. This
prevents the rock from being swallowed up by the road. You can drive
easily on the road all year round. You will essentially have a layer
that floats on top of the dirt/mud. It's essential here unless you
want to continually add rock to the road. Irregardless adding rock at
times is part of maintaining a gravel road.
I put a load of 3" rock on a slippery part of our road 3 years ago.
Can't find a rock unless you dig. I will put down underlayment next
time. A lesson learned.
Kirk
"There's a lot to be said
for a blow to the head", BOC.
www.sandpoint.net/captkirk
www.stormyacres.com
Keep your money in America
Drop EARTHLINK and get a local ISP
Clyde Gill
>
> What type of weather do you deal with? If you're in a freezing zone
> you will have frost heave which is hard on roads. Here in N. Idaho we
> use an underlayment which is essentially a strong cloth mesh. This
> prevents the rock from being swallowed up by the road. You can drive
> easily on the road all year round. You will essentially have a layer
> that floats on top of the dirt/mud. It's essential here unless you
> want to continually add rock to the road. Irregardless adding rock at
> times is part of maintaining a gravel road.
>
> I put a load of 3" rock on a slippery part of our road 3 years ago.
> Can't find a rock unless you dig. I will put down underlayment next
> time. A lesson learned.
>
>
>
> Kirk
Do you have any contact information about this cloth, Kirk?
How long is it effective?
Can it be used on top of an exsiting gravel road, with an addtional layer of
gravel?
thanx,
clyde
john
Mark H Bramhall <ma...@bramhall.org> wrote in message
news:v7egbbj...@corp.supernews.com...
still allowing grass to grow through.
The beauty of this system is that the underground grass root system is not
ripped or torn by either the action of individual stones cutting through or
being crushed by the vehicle, as a result the roots flourish and intermesh
which in time provides an undercroft which in turn supports the concrete
mesh that helps to hold the grass together in the first place.
During WW11 your US engineers laid rolls of wire mesh over crushed coral to
provide landing strips for fighters and bombers.
Fourteen years ago I personally saw them still intact and still in use in
the Solomon isles.
It then being some forty five years after they were first laid.
And yes there was grass growing through them:-))
Mark H Bramhall
> you will have frost heave which is hard on roads.
Believe it or not, we're within 30 minutes of Boston, but rural enough to be
an isolated 16 acres and off-grid. So, yes, definitely, freezing and front
heave issues.
> Here in N. Idaho we
> use an underlayment which is essentially a strong cloth mesh.
Can you supply details on vendors, costs, etc.?
/s/ MarkB
Mark H Bramhall
> still allowing grass to grow through.
That sounds mighty like what I saw in England. Do you have any idea how I
might found more information? Vendors?
/s/ MarkB
Michael
"Clyde Gill" <vi...@misn.com> wrote in message
news:b57kms$26i3g6$1...@ID-120048.news.dfncis.de...
Time for google... geotextiles underlayment roads are all key words.
>
>
Offbreed
Sounds like a heck of a landscaping problem. Might not be worth while
because every inch of it is probably going to need custom treatment,
unless you have a real fortunate climate.
Treat the two tracks like heavy wear foot paths?
Clyde Gill
>
> Time for google... geotextiles underlayment roads are all key words.
.........that produce nothing.
"Road underlayment" gets a few hits, but nothing for gravel, which, believe
it or not, is where I started before making my post.
As a
courtesy of course.
clyde
Michael
OK Clyde,
Do the above search and you get
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=geotextiles+underlaym
ent+road&btnG=Google+Search
Take the first one
http://www.roadauthority.com/database/Company.asp?comp=2223
Now it does get hard at this point...you will have to scroll down and read
the descriptions. About half way down you will see Geotex 135ST. Click
that and you will get
http://www.roadauthority.com/database/Product.asp?prod=2564
"Light duty paths and roadways paved and unpaved." Geotextiles are what is
going to solve your problem but finding the correct one is also your
problem.
Not exactly nothing.
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
wrote:
No contact info but check your local building supply.
Don't know the life span.
I have put it on gravel and dropped more on top. The stuff on the
bottom will eventually get pushed down but the stuff on top will
remain. I have a number of places where I don't have any but it was
rocky terrain to start. I will add underlayment on ALL areas where I
put down gravel from now on. Gravel is too damn expensive here as I
am about 15 miles from the pit. All transport costs.
One interesting attribute of a road built this way is during the
spring thaw you can see the road act like a wave. The road maintains
its structure but since it is sort of floating on the mush it will
deflect slightly. This is the extreme though.
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
wrote:
>
>>
As soon as I get ahold of the purchaser for the local building supply
I will post the vendor.
Clyde Gill
> "Light duty paths and roadways paved and unpaved." Geotextiles are what
is
> going to solve your problem but finding the correct one is also your
> problem.
>
> Not exactly nothing.
>
>
The answer was appreciated. The condescending tone was not. I had done
your search using quotes, which I tend to do automatically. Please accept my
apologies for having you post again. That is a helpful site.
thanx
clyde
Larry Caldwell
Ruts are a problem. Water gathers in the ruts and wheel action splashes
the water out of the ruts, which carries gravel along with it. You will
find much of your gravel along side the road and under the grass in the
center, rather than in the tracks where it belongs.
To limit water destruction, you need to raise the level of the road above
the surrounding soil, either by adding rock or by digging ditches along
the road. In any case, the road should be crowned to shed water off the
surface. A saturated road surface also is very subject to frost damage.
In order to have a durable road, you have to dispose of the water
somehow.
The discussed geotextile fabric is excellent if you have a soft base.
Another way of dealing with a soft soil is to use large crushed rock
ballast, which will interlock and form a supporting layer for the smaller
rock on the road surface. You might use both geotextile fabric and
ballast, with the fabric going down first. It will keep mud from
pumping up through the rock. If you have a solid shale or stone base,
you can dispense with the ballast. Whatever you do, grade the road
BEFORE you add the rock. This will greatly aid in shaping the road
surface.
It is important to compact the road surface so it will hold its crown.
Renting a vibrating roller will save you a lot of swearing in the long
run. You will have to grade it and compact it and grade it and compact
it again. Then all you have to worry about is the occasional lead footed
driver spinning his wheels and digging holes in the surface.
bherms
the means to get it from your creek, it's a great way to go. You get
lots of different sizes that lock together. I went back over mine by
hand to logistically lay the big rocks. It looks better than all that
"imported" white stuff too, imho :)
Bill
Bill Vajk
> What do people suggest? I saw a creative solution in England where a strong
> steel mesh was laid down and grass allowed to grow up through it. I've never
> seen that anywhere else. We'd like to preserve as much of the dirt road,
> grass in the center, etc. as possible.
I remember seeing interlocking steel panels of the sort you mention
being sold in the military surplus market in the early 1950's. The
original purpose was to be able to make a soggy field useful as an
aircraft runway as quickly as a ground crew could lay the panels,
interlocking them as they went. They were full of holes, as you
mention. From a military standpoint they were cheap enough to
leave behind during tactical exercises.
Suggested uses when sold in the surplus market, as I recall, included
instant driveways. They were cheap enough, in the early 1950's priced
at less than a buck a panel. I don't recall the size of a panel but
have a sense they were something on the order of 2 by 4 feet.
William J. Vajk
Techny, Illinois
Clear Cut
water on the road. Mud is the symptom.
Is there a way to improve drainage - knocking down berms, outsloping the
road bed, adding culverts or other drainage? Quickly moving water off of
the road surface without erosion is a key to a low maintenance road.
In article <v7egbbj...@corp.supernews.com>,
"Mark H Bramhall" <ma...@bramhall.org> wrote:
--
Due to SPAM filtering, please add NOSPAM
to email subject to improve your chances
of an actual reply.
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
Here is a site for the underlayment. I didn't look real closely but
this is the manufacturer of the stuff I'm using.
Hope it helps.
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
wrote:
>I suggest treating the problem, rather than the symptom. The problem is
>water on the road. Mud is the symptom.
Our problem with mud comes only during the spring breakup where the
ground is thawing. I doesn't matter the shape of the road nor any
ditching that is present. Having the underlayment prevents the mud
from pushing up through the rock.
>
>Is there a way to improve drainage - knocking down berms, outsloping the
>road bed, adding culverts or other drainage? Quickly moving water off of
>the road surface without erosion is a key to a low maintenance road.
>
>In article <v7egbbj...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Mark H Bramhall" <ma...@bramhall.org> wrote:
>
>> Our driveway runs 2/10 of a mile off of a hard-pack gravel (town) road. Our
>> driveway is dirt with some 3/4 inch stone that has been put on it from tie
>> to time. This is great most of the year, but I'd like to do something more
>> to get us through mud season. The problem is not only driving over the
>> mud -- it is the damage done to the driveway.
>>
>> What do people suggest? I saw a creative solution in England where a strong
>> steel mesh was laid down and grass allowed to grow up through it. I've never
>> seen that anywhere else. We'd like to preserve as much of the dirt road,
>> grass in the center, etc. as possible.
>>
>> /s/ MarkB
>> Mark H Bramhall
>>
>>