Water softener: brine blocks in place of bag salt?
Lee Roth
or pellet salt?
I have a Hague water softener that's been working great on rock
salt (it was designed to use that). I chose the Hague years ago
because its resin could handle my high iron level (5.5 ppm).
The brine tank is separate from the resin tank/valve body/timer
head. There is a platform grid in the bottom of the tank that
holds the salt about 3.5 inches above the bottom. If I use rock
salt (cheapest) I have to take the tank outside every few years
to clean the sand and dirt out of the bottom of the tank.
At Sam's Club today I saw the usual skid piled up with Morton
Brine blocks - 50lb. for $3.48. These things don't even have
a cardboard wrapper on them- just a block of salt with some
purple printing on the side. The fine print on the price sign
said "formed from high purity, food-grade salt that can be
used in softeners with grid or platform tanks that accommodate
blocks."
Well, heck I figured - why not try one? The price for the block
is about the same as I'd been paying for rock salt and to me
it's a lot easier to heft one to the tank. (My salt tank holds
about 250-300 lbs. of rock salt normally). Being pure salt means I
won't have to clean the tank out every couple of years. My water
use is such that I only regen once every 4 days anymore, so
there is plenty of time for it to dissolve. If I recall correctly,
my softener uses about 14 lbs. of salt per regen.
I set the block in upgright (right on the grid.. I was out of salt)
and to my surprise it 'ate' about 3/8 inch. away all the way around
in just 2 hours, so it seems to me like it will work fine as long
as I keep an adequate supply in the tank (I will have to see if two
blocks can fit side-by-side).
I know there is probably some brand of softener that is
specifically designed to use these blocks but I don't know what
one that would be- does anyone know?
Don Bruder
lee...@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote:
> Has anyone switched to using brine blocks instead of rock
> or pellet salt?
> I know there is probably some brand of softener that is
> specifically designed to use these blocks but I don't know what
> one that would be- does anyone know?
I know nothing about specific brands that are set up for block, but I do
know one thing:
Salt is salt, whether it comes as rock-salt and leaves sand/mud in the
bottom of the tank, as little white pellets that leave nothing in the
tank, or as 50 pound blocks that behave the same as the pellets. NaCL is
NaCL.
The only time I'd be worried about the shape/size/form-factor is if your
regen tank makes brine by spraying water over/through a "dry", or
suspended salt source, rather than submerging the salt completely and
leaving it that way until the brine gets used the way the most common
"wet" units do.
In the case of the "dry" style, the size, shape, and purity of the salt
source could have a marked impact on how strong the final brine is,
which could in turn impact the rest of the softening system adversely.
With the "wet" system, it's your basic case of "no such thing as too
strong" - The tank fills, and since the salt (block, rock, or pellet)
remains submerged, as much salt as that volume of water can hold in
solution at whatever temperature it's at during the time the salt
remains submerged will be dissolved, and no more. To get it "too strong"
would require heating and/or agitating the water to make a
"supersaturated" solution.
Up to a point, "too strong" could actually be a good thing, since the
purpose of the regen cycle is to swap Fe and Ca ions for Na ions, the
more Na ions are available in the brine, the better and quicker the
process is able to work. After a certain point, though, it becomes more
expensive, in terms of energy expended (heating and/or stirring the
tank) and material used (the salt) to increase the ion concentration in
the brine than what the benefit is worth, thus my "Up to a point"
qualifier.
To be sure, I'd suggest this little trial:
Load your regen tank with a known weight (suggest 50 pounds to make the
math we'll do later a bit simpler) of "regulation" salt.
Allow the system to cycle one time as normal.
Remove the salt that remains, dry it (toss it in the oven at low heat
for a while, or spread it out on a tarp and leave it in the sun for a
while) and weigh it. Record how much was washed away in the cycle.
Put a 50 pound block (or 50 pounds of pellets, or 50 pounds of whatever
form you come up with) in the tank. Cycle the system as normal.
Remove the remains of the block/pellets/whatever, let it dry (help it
along in the oven or sunshine if you like) and weigh it. How much washed
away? How does that compare to the amount that washed away when it was
loaded with 50 pounds of rock salt?
If the numbers come out reasonably close (I'd say about 2-3 pounds
either way is probably fine), go with whichever form of salt tickles
your fancy or saves you money.
If they don't match reasonably, stick with the manufacturer's
recommended stuff.
--
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Gary Slusser
"Lee Roth" <lee...@my-deja.com> wrote
> Has anyone switched to using brine blocks instead of rock
> or pellet salt?
>
> I have a Hague water softener that's been working great on rock
> salt (it was designed to use that). I chose the Hague years ago
> because its resin could handle my high iron level (5.5 ppm).
Rock salt or solar crystal salt? Rock salt is not made for use in water
softeners but I'm sure many use it anyway. When it comes to ion exchange,
water softening or other ion removal (nitrates, sulfates etc.), salt is
salt. The marketing that says a unit is made for this or that type 'salt' is
at best lying.
Solar crystal salt usually causes the fewest if any salt related problems.
Pellets and blocks don't always fully dissolve. Then the salt lays in the
bottom of the brine tank like sand. And the stuff gets hard and displaces
water which reduces the salt dose the unit gets, which leads to resin
failure and poor water quality.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Lee Roth
> "Lee Roth" <lee...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > Has anyone switched to using brine blocks instead of rock
> > or pellet salt?
> >
> > I have a Hague water softener that's been working great on rock
> > salt (it was designed to use that). I chose the Hague years ago
> > because its resin could handle my high iron level (5.5 ppm).
>
> Rock salt or solar crystal salt? Rock salt is not made for use in water
> softeners but I'm sure many use it anyway. When it comes to ion exchange,
> water softening or other ion removal (nitrates, sulfates etc.), salt is
> salt. The marketing that says a unit is made for this or that type 'salt' is
> at best lying.
The manufacturer's rep stated that the unit would work with "rock salt",
which obviously contains impurities. Pellet salt is cleaner but more
expensive. I've use rock salt with success since 1987 and as I mentioned
before, an every-other-year cleanout has been necessary.
> Solar crystal salt usually causes the fewest if any salt related problems.
> Pellets and blocks don't always fully dissolve. Then the salt lays in the
> bottom of the brine tank like sand. And the stuff gets hard and displaces
> water which reduces the salt dose the unit gets, which leads to resin
> failure and poor water quality.
How can it be salt (NaCl) and not dissolve? The sandlike substance that I
clean out of the bottom of my brine tank every few years certainly doesn't
disolve - the sandy spot in my gravel driveway where it got washed out
stays there.
So far the softener appears to be working normally on the block salt, so
I may just continue to use it.
Gary Slusser
"Lee Roth" <lee...@my-deja.com> wrote
> "Gary Slusser" <qwas...@ptd.net> wrote.
Next time you clean it out of the tank, put some in a few gallons of fresh
water and crush it some after it softens a bit and it will dissolve. The
reason it doesn't disslove in the tank is due to the solution strenght being
so that the fresh salt dissolves first and the water can't take up any more
salt (2.7#/gal). IOWs, it takes too long to dissolve it in partial to full
strength brine; brine goes to the bottom of the tank where the hard salt is.
And full strength brine won't dissolve any more of any type salt. Solar
crystal salt fully dissolves.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Gary Coffman
What "magical" chemical property does this "Solar crystal" have that
any other NaCl doesn't which allows it to dissolve to a greater saturation
than 2.7 pounds to the gallon?
Gary
Gary Slusser
"Gary Coffman" <ke...@bellsouth.net> wrote
A... I'm missing where you get that I said that but.... In the vast majority
of softeners, a gallon to 3 gallons or so of brine is left in the tank at
the end of the brining/slow rinse cycle of regeneration. In the brine refill
postion, fresh water is added to the tank. It rises to the top of the brine
as it exits the brine pickup tube due to the two very different viscosities
of the two different waters. That leaves the hard stuff in the brine that is
under the fresh water and which then if there's no salt grid, or when the
water covers the grid, it starts dissolving the other frsh/loose salt. Then
that water reaches full saturation and no more salt can be dissolved,
including the hardened salt on the bottom of the tank.
If you think it's only a theory, during brine refill measure the brine
strength in a tank that has a hard layer of mushed pelltized or block salt
in the bottom of the tank. This is the primary reason people are told to
always have some dry salt above the water level in their salt tank.
Otherwise they may not get the proper salt dose their softener should have
(if all the the salt is covered by a few inches of water). Of course that
does not apply to a salt tank with a salt grid.
If this explanation doesn't 'fit', give me/us your idea as to why there's
always some hardened block or pellitized salt that won't dissolve in every
brine tank that doesn't have a salt grid although it's always under water in
the/on the bottom of the brine tank. Or was the question 'why does solar
crystal salt always fully dissolve'? It does because it can't mush and
become compacted which restricts penetration and thereby dissolving by the
fresh water. The reason for that is due to solar salt is very irregularly
shaped pieces in either regular or course versions.
Gary
Quality Water Associates