Bear/mountain lion Fence
iceman
800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
Electric in my opinion is a joke especially in an area that gets
measures snow in meters.
It requires to much maintnence and really isn't that effective since a
bear would have to touch it with his toungue(ie fur insulates). The
fence would have to be too powerful and then it becomes a significant
danger.
Here's my plan;
A 20 foot high reinforced chain link fence with reinforcing crossbars
with multiple lines of razor wire. Two lines of razor wire at the
bottom. Two in the middle. Two at the top.
I live in a extremely remote area and this fence would be about 1/2
mile back into my property from the public "road" so risk to humans is
non-exsistant unless the blind are considering taking nature hikes on
private property!
Also, are there any laws conderning razor wire in the middle of
private property(were taling 800 acres here). I'm almost not even in a
township.
Some treehuggers might say the bears will get hurt, give me a break
there extremely intelligent animals and it will be VERY clear to the
animal how dangerous the fence is with one feel from his paw.
What do you think?
Woodswun
>I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
>800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
>proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
>
>Electric in my opinion is a joke especially in an area that gets
>measures snow in meters.
>It requires to much maintnence and really isn't that effective since a
>bear would have to touch it with his toungue(ie fur insulates). The
>fence would have to be too powerful and then it becomes a significant
>danger.
>
>Here's my plan;
<snip>
I'd advise seeing an attorney (that specializes in real property / real estate
law) and finding out what you're permitted to do in your area. The cost of
going to an attorney would be a pittance in comparison to the cost of the
fence you're proposing, and would give you much, much more accurate
information than what you can get off an internation forum like usenet.
Good luck!
Woods
Steve Dunlop
"iceman" <z6ic...@home.com> wrote in message
news:f0170fa7.02012...@posting.google.com...
> I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
> 800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
> proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
>
> Here's my plan;
>
> A 20 foot high reinforced chain link fence with reinforcing crossbars
> with multiple lines of razor wire. Two lines of razor wire at the
> bottom. Two in the middle. Two at the top.
If it is your goal to provide positive exclusion of such animals,
you'll have to do better. A concrete wall (or concrete block) would
work. So might bars made from 2" square steel tubing,
10 gauge or heavier, and spaced about every six inches. Either way
you would need something to deter climbing at the top.
You could also check into cable fences. Or used highway guard
rails might work, and are less expensive than many other materials.
Get ones from the warmer states where salt is not used on the
roadways -- they're in better shape that way.
I think a large bear could tear through chain link. The wire
just isn't that strong.
Razor wire is a deterrent. A bear could run through it, if
motivated. If you use razor wire, you would want to have
a safety fence on either side to prevent accidental contact,
I would think, even in a remote area.
If your goal is to deter animals rather than provide positive
exclusion, your choice of materials is wider. H-T wire, with
electric, might help. Despite what you say there are some
nice fence chargers that use a brief pulse at about 10 kV,
that are effective deterrents to animals with fur. The narrow
pulse width keeps the fence safe even though the instantaneous
voltage and current are high. Such a fence would be far less
expensive than one providing complete exclusion.
Steve
Charles Stoyer
Bob Adkins <bo...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:8p7m4us48i25eiodl...@4ax.com...
> On 20 Jan 2002 08:30:58 -0800, z6ic...@home.com (iceman) wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> I think a 10 foot fence with the familiar out-leaning 4 strands of barbed
> wire should do it. Few critters in the world could jump it, and none would
> try.
>
> "From the Heart of Cajun Country".
Remember he said snow is measured in meters. 3 meters means you wouldn't
know the 10 foot fence was there unless you had a metal detector. I once got
a snowmobile stuck on top of a fence post I didn't know was there.
Charles.
ConnieG999
> want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
>800,
Whew, 800 there and wanting to buy more in North Dakota....
Either you won the lottery, inherited big, or robbed a bank...!!(G)
Have fun; you're in a place I envy. Always said if I won the lottery I'd live
so far up the holler that it would take a 4WD just to get home.
Janet Baraclough
from z6ic...@home.com (iceman) contains these words:
> I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
> 800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
> proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
> A 20 foot high reinforced chain link fence with reinforcing crossbars
> with multiple lines of razor wire. Two lines of razor wire at the
> bottom. Two in the middle. Two at the top.
Have you ever seen what zoos use to hold back bears and big cats?
It's not reinforced chainlink. What you need is a high sheer concrete
wall, and on the outside of that, a deep water filled moat...a
swimming bear can't get a handhold on the wall. Remember to fell
every tree in a 50 metre wide band round the moat, in case they fall
onto the wall and make a bear bridge.
Then there's the gates.There would have to be a double set, either
side of a safety cage, made of really thick high iron bars. So that
the bears don't lie in wait for people getting out of their vehicle
to open the outer gate, or kids are waiting for the school bus,
you'll need to employ armed guards..they could be positioned in
gunhouses mounted on top of the concrete wall.
Janet
Phxbrd3
>a snowmobile stuck on top of a fence post I didn't know was there.
Been there. I once stepped off, and barely caught the running board as I went
shooting past - straight down. Turned out to be a 15' drift masquerading as a
flat level area....
Eric Murray
iceman <z6ic...@home.com> wrote:
>I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
>800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
>proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
[..]
>What do you think?
I think someone's way more scared of big critters
than they ought to be.
Fur doesn't insulate against electric shock. If it did then
electric stock fences wouldn't work. However, a determined
(or more often, scared) critter can go through an electric fence.
If I were you (and wasn't the one scared of critters), I'd
buy a decent shotgun _and learn how to use it_. Remove
anything that might bring the big critters by, like garbage,
tasty plants (bears love wild strawberries for example), and
den sites. And finally, get a good farm dog (not a little yappy
dog, they are lion food).
Unless you put up a huge wall and cut down trees nearby so
the critters can't use them to get over the wall, you won't
be 100% sure that no critters can get inside. If that doesn't make
the person who's afraid of the critters satisfied, then they
wont be happy in the country and should stay in town.
Lots of people live in the middle of cougar/bear/wolf country
and don't have a problem. In fact, you're much more likely
to be killed by a rattlesnake, bees, lightning, or by hitting
a deer in your car than you are to be killed by a mountain lion.
(http://virtual-markets.net/vme/ARNHA/graph3.html, see also main site at
http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html). I beleive that the
number for humans killed by bears and wolves is similar.
Of course you're forgetting the most dangerous big predator of all: humans.
--
Eric, who wouldn't consider putting up a fence to keep
the predators out but might put one up to keep people out.
iceman
What about around 80 acre bear "farms"/"sanctuaries"?
They don't use that type of setup. I'm not exactly sure what they use,
but I know it's not like that. Many zoos have a setup like that, but
again, its a different situation. The animal is confined and all he
probably thinks about it getting out of there vs. a animal who is in
the wild who really doesn't care about getting over my fence/wall ect.
Its like comparing a estate security system/fence to a maximum
security prison fence with lethal electric wire.
Obviously for complete exclusion a 25 foot concrete perimter wall with
a moat with a pull up bridge(castle setup) will keep out practically
everything, but that would cost an absolute fortune. A 25 foot
concrete wall surrounding 30 acres? Just think about it, the
foundation alone would cost more than I could get from 10 bank
robberies! Also, in a zoo razor wire is not exactly appealing looking.
To say a bear could get through a razor wire is ludicrous.
Do you understand what razor wire is? NOT barb wire, razor wire, it
would tear the bear to shreds, you need a special machine to cut barb
wire, it can't be cut with a fence cutters, forget an animal getting
through it. The only animal that would have a chance would be a rhino
or an elephant.
http://www.security-fencing.com/security-fencing-razor-wire.htm
Check it out.
Maybe I'm wrong that a bear could get through razor wire, I just
wanted to make sure everyone understands what razor wire is. Remember
a simple pocketknife can kill a bear, razor wire is like 10,000 times
sharper.
I'm assuming this person is joking(or she is more crazy than I am):
"Then there's the gates.There would have to be a double set, either
side of a safety cage, made of really thick high iron bars. So that
the bears don't lie in wait for people getting out of their vehicle
to open the outer gate, or kids are waiting for the school bus,
you'll need to employ armed guards..they could be positioned in
gunhouses mounted on top of the concrete wall."
Yeah I was thinking of 4 guntowers with highered mercs with steel
mounted heavy machine gun 50 caliber full auto chain guns(terminator 2
cop scene). And inside the concrete wall, I'll have a 40 foot high
lethal electric fence. lol.
Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<200201211...@zetnet.co.uk>...
Janet Baraclough
from z6ic...@home.com (iceman) contains these words:
A 25 foot
> concrete wall surrounding 30 acres? Just think about it, the
> foundation alone would cost more than I could get from 10 bank
> robberies!
You didn't mention before that you had a financial constraint; so I
just offered you optimum solutions. It pays to aim high, especially
in your line of work.
Janet.
iceman
LOL!!
I've never gone in bear country without my alaskan copilot .50 rifle
and a backup 9mm or 44.
I am scared, for good reason. Ever been attacked by a pitbull or
rotweiller? Just multiply times 1000.
There's a BIG difference between a hike in the wilderness on the
appalation trail once a year and LIVING in bear country or for that
matter stepping out of your car at night in remote british columbia.
Even been to B.C.? They have signs up around the alaskan border about
not getting out of your car because of extreme danger from killer
bears. Only very foolish people would go into that area without being
armed with lethal force(ie pepper spray is a joke, better than nothing
though).
Let me give you a prime example what usually happens with a black bear
that has !!NO habituation to people or does and is finally getting up
the guts to attack.
You'll be chopping wood, when all of sudden you'll see what looks like
a bear from a distance. Unlike in the movies, this bear is not going
to charge you right away. You realize its a black bear, ahhh no big
deal, just a blackie! Isn't he cute. All of sudden he stares directly
into your eyes with a vicious stare(unmistkable) and starts walking
crouched down/stalking you very slowly.
He's testing you out as prey. Your reaction here is what is going to
decide if you live or die. As he's walking towards you matching
whatever speed your at he's looking to see what your reaction is and
if you'll be easy to kill. This is the same thing that happens if you
go to prison and the inmates size you up.(thus the term fresh meat).
If you run, your a dead man(99.99% of people know that one thank god).
If you slowly back up and don't show "much" fear.(a bear/dog doesn't
smell your fear, they see it, just the way a prison inmate can tell
your afraid just by looking at you) the bear will match your speed and
keep following you very slowly closing the distance. Some very
misinformed people will play dead after backing up doesn't work, their
dead...
Predadory behavoir makes a black bear more dangerous than a grizzly
mother unless you know what your doing. Predatory black bear behavoir
is unmistakable.
Here's what should have happened in that encounter,
The person should have shot the bear immediatly(case closed, no big
deal)
Assuming the person didn't have a gun(very foolish been reading too
many save the bear pamphlets and been listening to forest ranger bob
who himself carries a weapon, yet tells you, you don't need it). The
person should have challenged the bear ferociously. You probably
should stare down the bear, show absolutely no fear and charge the
bear yourself trying to throw a rock and do anything to make yourself
too much trouble for the bear to bother with. Some people think I'm
crazy when I say this, they just haven't spent anytime with these
animals and don't understand their behavoir. Never EVER do that with a
mother grizzly and you HAVE to be able to understand their body
language in order to really understand this. If their huffing and
puffing and cracking their jaws just back away, but don't show fear,
never show fear.
Also, most attacks are recorded incorrectly. A mother grizzly is very
dangerous, but not all mother grizzly attacks are cub defensive. Some
are predatory, so playing dead is not always correct, watch her
body language.
Grizzlies are predatory, big eats small, and their VERY big. Only when
the attack a tent do the stupid attack recorders say it was predatory.
Bears are not good killers, if you get attacked by a previous man
eating mountain lion, you won't even see it coming and you won't know
what hit you, you'll practically be dead before you hit the floor.
NOW, if you get in between her cub and her then your almost
guarenteed to get attacked. If the cub is standing at your foot, your
a dead man unless it happens to be a picnic basket bear and by some
miracle it doesn't attack you.
Grizzly mothers are probably the most ferocious animals on the planet.
Most maulings are really just "lessons" don't fuck with me or my cub.
They could easily kill you. If I see a mother and her cub hanging
around me, I kill both of them period. There just too dangerous.
Saying that, any dangerous predator I see, I kill unless I'm hiking.
I'm at the top of the foodchain... period. Thus the reason for my
fence.
People say your more likely to be killed in a car accident, absolutely
wrong.
Those are "spinned" statistics by bear huggers. Your in your car
EVERYDAY, this includes everyone. How many times/how many people enter
bear country? You think there are over a 1 billion people hiking in
the backcountry of the selkirks EVERY SINGLE DAY. I don't think so.
Thats like saying your more likely to be killed by slipping and
falling then in crashing a stock car in the indianopolis speedway....
yeah no shit, thats because the entire population is not a race car
driver, while everyone walks. Give me a break.
If you live in bear country, its not a matter of if, but when.
BIG EATS LITTLE, I'M LITTLE COMPARED TO A BEAR.
COMMON SENSE.
When I see a grizzly, my legs shake especially since I really can't
just kill them because its illegal.(notthat that a few payoffs to bear
conservation groups wouldn't solve that problem..lol).
Most people are dumb enough to say that people are the cause and were
in their terriroty, LOL!!! Last time I checked, we were at the top of
the foodchain because of our brains(that nature gave us) that allow us
to build tools to defend ourseleves. Most people don't this, but
prehistoric man was almost wiped out by big cats. We came very close
to extinction. Look at some of the skulls from thousands of years ago,
most deaths included canine punctures in the skull or vertebrae. If we
kill off tigers, it's natural selection/survival of the fittest, were
the fittest period...
Not politcally correct, but true.
This post has gotten WAY WAY to long, you've gotten me offtopic.
If you want more great bear attack advice, read the deadly truth bear
attacks, by gary shelton. TOTALLY HONEST ADVICE, GREAT STORIES with no
agenda.
People have no idea what most of these conservation groups are like.
There supposedly non-profit... lol. There the most crooked of anyone.
Its just politics and "campain contributions" can get bear hunting
season extended in certain areas or make them turn there heads. In all
reality, if you have enough money, you can make your own laws by
giving contributions to a politician. What most people don't realize
is that exxon runs this country, not the president. All presidents are
bought and sold, capitolism. Now I'm really on a rant!
Finally, if a grizzly is chargind don't aim your high powered rifle/12
gauge at this forehead, it won't pierce it, aim for the eyes/mouth or
shoulder or if you can get a stomach shot, even better.
The mountain lion is just starting to realize were easy prey and their
population is coming back just wait my friend....
The #1 Rule when dealing with large predators:
UNPREDICTABILITY.
Be ready to kill. I've lived in bear country for years and have shot
MANY MANY bears in self defence(ie in mid charge) Don't give me that
bluff crap. They only bluff once or twice and then its for real. Some
don't bluff at all.
I've only shot one mountain lion. He missed my neck by about a quarter
of an inch. After he missed the hit(by some miracle) I gunned him
down. I practically blew him in half with my .50. Lions are easy to
kill, just like killing a human with a gun, with a bear you have to be
a skilled shot.
Finally, I could tell you a million horror stories about how people
and sometimes childrenwere KILLED and eaten or sometimes just killed
for fun(yes predators do that, especially cats) by blacks and
grizzlies totally unprovoked.
Wolves are generally RIGHT NOW non-oportunistic and will NOT attack,
but thats because we've hunted them ferociously, there an animal you
ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT TO FEED. You want no habituation with wolves.
The most dangerous large predator to humans?
The polar bear follwed by lions and tigers.
Trash? strawberries? LOL, I'm an expert in this field and your telling
me about trash. It's insulting, but "all is good in usenet discusion",
no offence taken!
sp...@lne.com (Eric Murray) wrote in message news:<a2hv4j$haa$1...@slack.lne.com>...
guar...@webtv.net
guar...@webtv.net
dogsnus
<f0170fa7.02012...@posting.google.com>:
>Learn how to use a shotgun?
>LOL!!
snipped over 190 lines of rant...
Dude, lay off the testosterone.
Terri
Walter Daniels
>On 20 Jan 2002 08:30:58 -0800, z6ic...@home.com (iceman) wrote:
>
>>I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
>>800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
>>proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
>>
>>Electric in my opinion is a joke especially in an area that gets
>>measures snow in meters.
>>Here's my plan;
>>
>>A 20 foot high reinforced chain link fence with reinforcing crossbars
>>with multiple lines of razor wire. Two lines of razor wire at the
>>bottom. Two in the middle. Two at the top.
>>I live in a extremely remote area and this fence would be about 1/2
>>mile back into my property from the public "road" so risk to humans is
>>non-exsistant unless the blind are considering taking nature hikes on
>>private property!
>>What do you think?
>I think you must have a LOT of money, and a huge fear of some
>relatively harmless critters. You are really thinking about fencing
>in 25 acres with a fence the size of a softball backstop with added
>razor wire? I guess it would slow a bear down and make him think
>twice about whether he should knock the fence down to get where he
>wants to go. That is unless it's a grizzly, which might not notice
>the fence as he walked through it.
IMO, a _far_ better "fence" would be to plant thorn bushes. Plant thm
initially in a 3-5 deep pattern like below. Over time, they will grow
larger and interlace. After a few years, it should be nearly
impenetrable. If you make the inside "layer" something like
rasberry/blackberry/etc. you can have fruit as well.
* bush first year
* * *
* *
* * *
>-Rick
Walter Daniels FBN Graphics Promotional Consulting.
Is your advertising working with your marketing to help with your selling? If
they aren't working together, you may be spending too much.
http://www.digiserve.com/fbngraphics
*******fbng...@earthlink.net**************
Walter Daniels
<janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> from z6ic...@home.com (iceman) contains these words:
>> I want to construct a bear proof fence on 25 acres of land. I own over
>> 800, but just want 25 acres and my house to be large predator
>> proof(wolves/mountainlions/black bears)
>> A 20 foot high reinforced chain link fence with reinforcing crossbars
>> with multiple lines of razor wire. Two lines of razor wire at the
>> bottom. Two in the middle. Two at the top.
> Have you ever seen what zoos use to hold back bears and big cats?
>It's not reinforced chainlink. What you need is a high sheer concrete
>wall, and on the outside of that, a deep water filled moat...a
>swimming bear can't get a handhold on the wall. Remember to fell
>every tree in a 50 metre wide band round the moat, in case they fall
>onto the wall and make a bear bridge.
Janet, shame on you for throwing cold, hard reality at him. :-)
However, i do agree if his "bear problem is that bad, he is in
*deeeeeepppppp* doo doo.
> Then there's the gates.There would have to be a double set, either
>side of a safety cage, made of really thick high iron bars. So that
>the bears don't lie in wait for people getting out of their vehicle
>to open the outer gate, or kids are waiting for the school bus,
>you'll need to employ armed guards..they could be positioned in
>gunhouses mounted on top of the concrete wall.
>
> Janet
C. Brunner
Daniels) wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:14:00 GMT, Janet Baraclough
><janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Have you ever seen what zoos use to hold back bears and big cats?
>>It's not reinforced chainlink. What you need is a high sheer concrete
>>wall, and on the outside of that, a deep water filled moat...a
>>swimming bear can't get a handhold on the wall. Remember to fell
>>every tree in a 50 metre wide band round the moat, in case they fall
>>onto the wall and make a bear bridge.
[etc.]
>
> Janet, shame on you for throwing cold, hard reality at him. :-)
[snip]
Yeah, when I read the question I immediately thought of "Jurassic
Park".
C. Brunner