Re: I need to lift a barn with jacks
Harry K
marad...@UNLISTED.com wrote:
> Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
> used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
> overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
> framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
> where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
> heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.
>
> The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
> end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
> but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
> inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
> the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
> to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
> it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
> corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
> get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
> to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
> stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.
>
> My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
> (ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
> Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
> ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
> use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
> then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
> the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
> horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
> barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
> close.
>
> I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
> considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
> concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
> above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
> the wood seems the easiest.
>
> Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?
> I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
> lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
>
> The other question is how much does something like this actually
> weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
> sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
> timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
> feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
> point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
> wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
> I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
> the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
> under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
> have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
> jammed under those posts.
>
> Mark
You do seem to know what you are doing and I hope you are aware of
safety. The bottle jacks are the only solution I know of but you need
more than one of them plus a lot of dunnage for blocking as you go.
Your project sounds much more intimidating (safety wise) than I would
care to tackle and I have done some strange things in my long life.
Harry K
David Martel
I suspect you're not going to like this advice but get help. A structural
engineer can make a reasonable guess as to the weight that you are lifting
and suggest where to locate temporary supports. Once you know where the temp
supports go you may want to pour some footings. You'll need support columns.
The type with screw jacks are good for this. See if you can rent the
columns, screw, and bottle jacks. Use a level to be sure that your support
columns are plumb. Now at each jacking point you'll have a bottle jack under
a 6x6 under the barn's sill plate. At each end of the 6x6 you'll have a
support column. Jack up, raise the support columns to support the weight,
move to the next jack and repeat.When you're done the barn will be up on the
support columns and you can remove the bottle jacks, pour footing and build
a foundation.
Dave M.
Duane Bozarth
>
...
> ...I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
> framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
> where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
> heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.
That's roughly same size as one grandad built--38x66. It's frame
construction, however on poured foundation w/ wood siding and shingle
(now shake) roof...
>
> The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
> end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
> but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
> inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
> the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
> to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
> it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
> corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
> get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
> to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
> stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.
Damn lucky you didn't kill yourself w/ that make-do contraption...
Raised ours enough to replace sill plate on one end and half of the
length using three 20-T bottle jacks and several 4x6 to spread load
across several rafters.
...
> Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?...
There are long-lift versions of bottle jacks that will do the job
although you will need several lifts even there. But, they're expensive
and I would be very reluctant to trust the really cheap Chinese imports
for this kind of work where my life is at stake.
If I had to make such a high lift, I think I'd call the guys local here
who do house moving and borrow/rent a couple of lifts from them as it
will be pretty pricey to find the capacity and the length I'm thinking.
As for how much you're trying to lift, would need a better picture more
data to actually guess, but probably not more than about 10T I'd guess
in a given lift.
My recommendation is to go slow and steady rather than try to get the
whole thing at one go. It's possibly going to get more unstable as you
get higher owing to the long-term "set" the building has taken over the
years. Whatever you do, be careful--I'm amazed you didn't have a
disaster already w/ the over-stressing of the jack you already did.
Elmo
> Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
> used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
> framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
> where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
> heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.
>
> end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
> but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
> inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
> the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
> to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
> it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
> corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
> get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
> to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
> stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.
>
> (ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
> Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
> ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
> use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
> then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
> the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
> horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
> barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
> close.
>
> I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
> considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
> concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
> above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
> the wood seems the easiest.
>
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
> lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
>
> The other question is how much does something like this actually
> weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
> sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
> timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
> feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
> point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
> wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
> I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
> the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
> under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
> have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
> jammed under those posts.
>
> Mark
I got to watch a church being raised up as 6 or 8 blocks worth of cinder block
foundation was built underneath it on the fly. (Across the street from where I
was working that year.) They did it with screw-type jacks spaced around the
entire sill and would move them a few block widths sideways as needed.
--
"The career politicians are keeping the elevator at the penthouse
floor and not sending it down for the rest of us." - Kinky Friedman
NotMe
<marad...@UNLISTED.com>
<snip>
| Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
| a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
| believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
| under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
| and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
| some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
| bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
|
| Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
| of thing?
| I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
| lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
|
| The other question is how much does something like this actually
| weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
| sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
| timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
| feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
| point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
| wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
| I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
| the outside until it is stabilized. Then I will work on the posts
| under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
| have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
| jammed under those posts.
|
Check with the local heavy truck wrecker company. Many have air bladders
that they place under a tipped load to ease it back into place with air
pressure. FWIW I've seen these things move a Mississippi river barge.
No
few screw jacks. . The key is, IMO, and I'm not a profesional, is to go
SLOW. Bring it up the capacity of the jack, put in cribbing, let it down,
raise the jack, repeat. My project required 16 footers at 48" deep, on top
of that I build my block piers. This building was on a hill. My tallest
piers were 48". On the up hill side I built right on the footings. I really
like the concrete suggestion. The materials are cheap. Once you get the barn
raised you can build your forms and call the concrete guy. If the rock
foundation is still there I may consider pouring my concrete over it (Inside
forms of course). You can also consider stem walls and retaining waslls
while you are at it. Once the concrete is set up, you can SLOWLY lower the
thing back down. I would NOT have any wood in contact with the earth. Thats
why the building probably failed to begin with.
<marad...@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message
news:i1m5g1t6j6lgvabgj...@4ax.com...
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?
> I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
> lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
>
> The other question is how much does something like this actually
> weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
> sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
> timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
> feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
> point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
> wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
> I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
> under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
> have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
> jammed under those posts.
>
SteveB
<marad...@UNLISTED.com> wrote>
Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4".
> Mark
Slow down, Mark!
Have you ever watched shows where they move barns, houses, and even
lighthouses?
They have a vast array of hydraulic jacks, and lift only a very small amount
at a time. You have to get the thing coming up evenly, or there's a kink, a
snap, and a collapse. I would get some more bottle jacks like you have,
plenty of crosstimbering, and do it just as slow as it takes to keep it from
tweaking, breaking, and collapsing into a messy pile. Bottle jacks are
cheap, and you could probably borrow enough to do the job without having to
go buy some. And even if you had to buy some, they aren't that expensive.
Think about it.
You're lifting up a barn. It ain't like using a car lift. It goes s l o w
l y.
Steve
Reynaud
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?
> I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
> lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
>
> The other question is how much does something like this actually
> weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
> sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
> timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
> feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
> point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
> wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
> I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
> the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
> under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
> have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
> jammed under those posts.
>
> Mark
@#@ Something as heavy as an barn needs heavy duty lifting power . I have
used railway jacks and H.D. 120 ton house movers jacks they work well. Any
thing lighter than that and you'll end up killing yourself or someone.
Whatever you do Don't use concrete blocks, they just explode under pressure
. Make yourself an crib out of timber and stack as you would an log house.
Good luck man.
Rey
MrC1
I once lifted a small cabin in small increments (for levellingpurposes)
using nothing more than a forklift! haha Hey, it worked and I didn't put
myself in too much danger. I simply made sure the forks were placed in a
reinforced area and let er rip. Slowly, of course.
Susan (CobbersMom)
Sue
Minocqua, WI
Yamaha '00 VStar 650 (old reliable)
'04 TW200 (mud = fun)
Kawasaki '95 Vulcan 1500 (new friend) V#15937
"Do what you want and say what you feel because those that mind, don't
matter and those that matter, don't mind". ~Dr. Seuss
Robert
balloon-framed barn my grandfather built in 1921. The undersized
footing had cracked and sections of the foundation had toppled over.
The central 8" by 8" posts were the main supports holding the barn
erect. To correct these problems we used braced, screw-top, post jacks
at 3' intervals under 4" by 8" by 8' beams which crossed under the
floor joists of the second floor. Sequential turning the screws first
leveled then slightly raised the second and third floors as a unit.
With the building lifted we sawed off and removed all of the first
floor walls and old posts. With the upper 2/3's of the barn lifted we
excavated, formed, and poured new footings and foundation walls around
the perimeter. When these cured we built new first floor walls using
2" by 6" studs and replaced the posts with new 8" by 8" and then set
the building down on the new plates and posts. All the jacks (over 50)
and beams were rented from an equipment rental outfit. My barn was
free-standing not dug into a hillside and the low points of its sagging
wasn't more the 12 inches in one corner so our post jacks with screw
tops could handle the task. I had 8 hydraulic bottle jacks that I was
ready to use in lifting low points but they were not needed. My use
of the term "we" in the above is not accurate in that the vast bulk of
the work was done by a talented friend of mine with an acquaintance of
his helping. Most of the job went well but for one jack kicking out
under load and cracking a bone in the helper's arm. We never computed
or learned what weight we were trying to lift but figured we would keep
adding jacks until we succeeded in lifting the building. Our first
guess at the number of jacks needed was sufficient.
Larry Caldwell
not that big a deal, as long as you have lots of jacks. I'm not clear
on the configuration of the framing, but it sounds sort of like you
need to cut any rot off, make the walls the same height above the rot,
and attach a honkin' big mud sill, like a 6x6 treated timber to the
bottom of the wall. Then you can put several jacks under the mud sill
and bring the whole building up as a unit. Avoid jacking much on one
point, or you will rack the framing, possibly beyond repair.
Once you have it jacked into position, crawl around inside and re-nail
or metal strap anything that looks loose. You would hate to do all
that work, only to have the barn blow over in the next wind storm.
Hmmm. 30x70 quonset hut on stone foundation with one side swinging
free. I STILL can't get a picture of this in my head.
Larry Caldwell
marad...@UNLISTED.com (marad...@UNLISTED.com) says...
> Which reminds me. If I use those rocks, would it be better to use a
> straight portland cement sand mix, rather than mortar? I want it
> strong, dont care about appearance, and portland seems stronger.
> Anyone know?
I don't think it makes much difference in your application. If you want
stronger mortar, just add a little more cement. The primary purpose of
the lime in the cement is to make the mortar stickier, so you can butter
blocks and not have the mortar fall off while you set the block. A rock
wall is not a brick wall, it is a concrete wall with really, really big
aggregate. In fact, if your rock is pretty irregular, you might mix
your grout out of turkey grit rather than sand. I dunno what is
available in your area.