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Managing Gasoline For Small Equipment?
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(PeteCresswell)
Nov 3, 2012, 12:02:31 PM11/3/12
to
I'm currently using what many others use: OSHA-approved poly gas
containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
I've tried to find old, non-eco containers with the flexible
spouts, but no luck.
The requirements are:
- Don't spill fuel when fueling
- Avoid having to lift/hold a heavy container while
fueling
- At least six gallons of fuel available
First thing that occurs to me is to keep the cars topped up,
procure some sort of hand-operated pump, and use the cars as fuel
storage. Not so good for keeping track of vehicle MPG, but
otherwise simple and functional - although I don't know how the
residual gas in the pumping system would play out....
Second thing that comes to mind is NATO cans and a siphon: store
the cans a few feet off the floor, siphon into equipment as
needed.
Third thing that occurs to me is outboard motor gas tanks - which
I could also use as extended run tanks for a generator: store the
tanks high, do the siphon thing again, only using the snap-on
fuel lines that are used in boats.
Last one is the Smurf approach: get maybe a dozen 1 or 1.5
gallon fuel containers (which seem to have a more user-friendly
trigger-controlled spout).
Faults in the above?
Something better?
--
Pete Cresswell
containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
I've tried to find old, non-eco containers with the flexible
spouts, but no luck.
The requirements are:
- Don't spill fuel when fueling
- Avoid having to lift/hold a heavy container while
fueling
- At least six gallons of fuel available
First thing that occurs to me is to keep the cars topped up,
procure some sort of hand-operated pump, and use the cars as fuel
storage. Not so good for keeping track of vehicle MPG, but
otherwise simple and functional - although I don't know how the
residual gas in the pumping system would play out....
Second thing that comes to mind is NATO cans and a siphon: store
the cans a few feet off the floor, siphon into equipment as
needed.
Third thing that occurs to me is outboard motor gas tanks - which
I could also use as extended run tanks for a generator: store the
tanks high, do the siphon thing again, only using the snap-on
fuel lines that are used in boats.
Last one is the Smurf approach: get maybe a dozen 1 or 1.5
gallon fuel containers (which seem to have a more user-friendly
trigger-controlled spout).
Faults in the above?
Something better?
--
Pete Cresswell
Dean Hoffman
Nov 3, 2012, 7:24:58 PM11/3/12
to
On 11/3/12 11:02 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> I'm currently using what many others use: OSHA-approved poly gas
> containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
> age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
> tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
> tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
>
> I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
>
> I've tried to find old, non-eco containers with the flexible
> spouts, but no luck.
Some cut due to AIOE quotation limits.
> I'm currently using what many others use: OSHA-approved poly gas
> containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
> age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
> tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
> tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
>
> I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
>
> I've tried to find old, non-eco containers with the flexible
> spouts, but no luck.
Have you looked at fuel transfer tanks? Farmers have them in the
backs of their pickups. They use a hand pump or 12vdc pump to move the
fuel. This thing on Ebay might be something useful:
http://tinyurl.com/cjvnsm6
There are fuel can spouts on Ebay also.
(PeteCresswell)
Nov 3, 2012, 9:41:45 PM11/3/12
to
Per Dean Hoffman:
Thanks.
But, after reading a few reviews on the quality/efficacy of
various pumps, I'm starting to come around to the Smurf approach:
a dozen or so 1 or 1.5-gallon plastic containers.
--
Pete Cresswell
> Have you looked at fuel transfer tanks? Farmers have them in the
>backs of their pickups. They use a hand pump or 12vdc pump to move the
>fuel. This thing on Ebay might be something useful:
>http://tinyurl.com/cjvnsm6
That's the kind of thing I was trolling for.
>backs of their pickups. They use a hand pump or 12vdc pump to move the
>fuel. This thing on Ebay might be something useful:
>http://tinyurl.com/cjvnsm6
Thanks.
But, after reading a few reviews on the quality/efficacy of
various pumps, I'm starting to come around to the Smurf approach:
a dozen or so 1 or 1.5-gallon plastic containers.
--
Pete Cresswell
NotMe
Nov 4, 2012, 1:33:19 AM11/4/12
to
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:43fa985vu2i083556...@4ax.com...
cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
thing.
(PeteCresswell)
Nov 4, 2012, 8:41:27 AM11/4/12
to
Per NotMe:
I can't find anything like that in
http://www.fuelsafe.com/pdf/parts_accessories.pdf, but I think
I'm going to give those guys a call on Monday.
--
Pete Cresswell
>Tap into the high pressure side of you vehicle fuel system with a fuel safe
>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>thing.
Sounds promising. Have you done it?
>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>thing.
I can't find anything like that in
http://www.fuelsafe.com/pdf/parts_accessories.pdf, but I think
I'm going to give those guys a call on Monday.
--
Pete Cresswell
Neon John
Nov 4, 2012, 6:39:05 PM11/4/12
to
On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 12:02:31 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:
>Third thing that occurs to me is outboard motor gas tanks - which
>I could also use as extended run tanks for a generator: store the
>tanks high, do the siphon thing again, only using the snap-on
>fuel lines that are used in boats.
That's what I use (used - I now have an automatic propane powered
standby generator) on my standby generator. You can see my
arrangement here
http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
This is the ideal setup for that kind of application. The generator
has a fuel pump so I don't have to supply one externally. The tank is
pressure-tight when not connected which preserves the gasoline
indefinitely. And the 7 gallon tanks aren't too heavy to tote around.
Strap one to a 2 wheel dolly along with a small fuel pump and 12 volt
AGM battery and you have a portable refueling station.
(BTW, that generator setup is for sale.
http://www.neon-john.com/For_sale/index.html )
>
>Last one is the Smurf approach: get maybe a dozen 1 or 1.5
>gallon fuel containers (which seem to have a more user-friendly
Too much hassle. Especially at the gas station.
>Something better?
Have you looked at this?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200586486_200586486
Kind of expensive but it does work. The vapor pressure of the
gasoline pushes the gas through the hose even uphill. I think the
marine tank on a dolly with electric fuel pump is a better and a lot
cheaper solution.
Before I got the QuietPack generator and starting using marine fuel
tanks, I had a homemade standby generator and stored its fuel in a 55
gallon drum. I found that if I pressurized the tank with about 5 psi
propane (right out of a red top regulator), the dissolved propane
would maintain the Reid Vapor Pressure and the fuel would last for
years without preservatives.
The big hassle, and the reason I quit doing it that way, is the weight
of the tank. I had a medium duty truck with a lift gate but I still
had to wrestle the drum to and from my basement. A drum dolly helped
but it was still a real hassle. Now that I've sold the truck and
bought a pickup truck, handling the drum would be impossible without
an overhead lift of some sort.
IMO, the best solution is the marine tank, with or without the fuel
pump. If you keep the vent closed, the tank will self-pressurize to
5-7 psi (summer) to 9-10 (winter) and will drive fuel through a
"stinger", a piece of gas line with the mating connector on one end
and a ball valve on the other. I got one from a boat store complete
with squeeze bulb, in case I want to speed things up.
I use this to refuel all my portable gas devices. For my two
remaining 2-stroke appliances, I keep a 2 gallon can handy. One
device (the 1kW ChiCom generator) runs best on premium fuel so I
handle that separately.
The important thing is that your solution be air-tight. As long as
the gasoline is not exposed to air and the butane and propane the
refineries add to gasoline to maintain the RVP can't escape, the gas
will last for years without preservatives.
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
wrote:
>Third thing that occurs to me is outboard motor gas tanks - which
>I could also use as extended run tanks for a generator: store the
>tanks high, do the siphon thing again, only using the snap-on
>fuel lines that are used in boats.
standby generator) on my standby generator. You can see my
arrangement here
http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
This is the ideal setup for that kind of application. The generator
has a fuel pump so I don't have to supply one externally. The tank is
pressure-tight when not connected which preserves the gasoline
indefinitely. And the 7 gallon tanks aren't too heavy to tote around.
Strap one to a 2 wheel dolly along with a small fuel pump and 12 volt
AGM battery and you have a portable refueling station.
(BTW, that generator setup is for sale.
http://www.neon-john.com/For_sale/index.html )
>
>Last one is the Smurf approach: get maybe a dozen 1 or 1.5
>gallon fuel containers (which seem to have a more user-friendly
>Something better?
Have you looked at this?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200586486_200586486
Kind of expensive but it does work. The vapor pressure of the
gasoline pushes the gas through the hose even uphill. I think the
marine tank on a dolly with electric fuel pump is a better and a lot
cheaper solution.
Before I got the QuietPack generator and starting using marine fuel
tanks, I had a homemade standby generator and stored its fuel in a 55
gallon drum. I found that if I pressurized the tank with about 5 psi
propane (right out of a red top regulator), the dissolved propane
would maintain the Reid Vapor Pressure and the fuel would last for
years without preservatives.
The big hassle, and the reason I quit doing it that way, is the weight
of the tank. I had a medium duty truck with a lift gate but I still
had to wrestle the drum to and from my basement. A drum dolly helped
but it was still a real hassle. Now that I've sold the truck and
bought a pickup truck, handling the drum would be impossible without
an overhead lift of some sort.
IMO, the best solution is the marine tank, with or without the fuel
pump. If you keep the vent closed, the tank will self-pressurize to
5-7 psi (summer) to 9-10 (winter) and will drive fuel through a
"stinger", a piece of gas line with the mating connector on one end
and a ball valve on the other. I got one from a boat store complete
with squeeze bulb, in case I want to speed things up.
I use this to refuel all my portable gas devices. For my two
remaining 2-stroke appliances, I keep a 2 gallon can handy. One
device (the 1kW ChiCom generator) runs best on premium fuel so I
handle that separately.
The important thing is that your solution be air-tight. As long as
the gasoline is not exposed to air and the butane and propane the
refineries add to gasoline to maintain the RVP can't escape, the gas
will last for years without preservatives.
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.fluxeon.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Neon John
Nov 4, 2012, 6:45:59 PM11/4/12
to
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 08:41:27 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:
>Per NotMe:
>>Tap into the high pressure side of you vehicle fuel system with a fuel safe
>>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>>thing.
>
>Sounds promising. Have you done it?
Yes. I spliced a tee into the high pressure line on my 94 Caprice,
along with a WOG ball valve and a few feet of hose. Worked great and
the fuel was always fresh.
Nowadays you don't have to cut in. All OBDII compliant vehicles
(everything from about 95 and above) have an air conditioning-type
shraeder valve somewhere on the EFI fuel manifold. It is there so the
technician can measure the fuel pressure. All you really need to tap
that is a 6 ft refrigeration service hose, preferably an "eco-hose"
with a valve on the end.
All my marine fuel tanks will go with the QuietPack when it sells.
(see previous post). I just bought a new truck and will be using that
pressure tap for my small engine fuel needs. With a 35 gallon tank
that I keep full, I have plenty of gasoline for almost any
contingency.
wrote:
>Per NotMe:
>>Tap into the high pressure side of you vehicle fuel system with a fuel safe
>>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>>thing.
>
>Sounds promising. Have you done it?
along with a WOG ball valve and a few feet of hose. Worked great and
the fuel was always fresh.
Nowadays you don't have to cut in. All OBDII compliant vehicles
(everything from about 95 and above) have an air conditioning-type
shraeder valve somewhere on the EFI fuel manifold. It is there so the
technician can measure the fuel pressure. All you really need to tap
that is a 6 ft refrigeration service hose, preferably an "eco-hose"
with a valve on the end.
All my marine fuel tanks will go with the QuietPack when it sells.
(see previous post). I just bought a new truck and will be using that
pressure tap for my small engine fuel needs. With a 35 gallon tank
that I keep full, I have plenty of gasoline for almost any
contingency.
NotMe
Nov 4, 2012, 8:25:03 PM11/4/12
to
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
> Per NotMe:
>>Tap into the high pressure side of you vehicle fuel system with a fuel
>>safe
>>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>>thing.
>
> Sounds promising. Have you done it?
Yes. One thing I would add. Any vhicle with an electric fuel pump and you
>>Tap into the high pressure side of you vehicle fuel system with a fuel
>>safe
>>cut over valve. Turn on the engine and let the electric fuel pump do it's
>>thing.
>
> Sounds promising. Have you done it?
don't have to run the engine just have the key on.
Dean Hoffman
Nov 4, 2012, 8:48:06 PM11/4/12
to
On 11/4/12 5:39 PM, Neon John wrote:
> The important thing is that your solution be air-tight. As long as
> the gasoline is not exposed to air and the butane and propane the
> refineries add to gasoline to maintain the RVP can't escape, the gas
> will last for years without preservatives.
>
> John
>
That got me thinking about my dad's gas tanks for his farm tractors
> The important thing is that your solution be air-tight. As long as
> the gasoline is not exposed to air and the butane and propane the
> refineries add to gasoline to maintain the RVP can't escape, the gas
> will last for years without preservatives.
>
> John
>
long ago. They were gas burners. He had a fuel tank on a stand. The
gas would gravity feed through a hose to the tractor tanks. The tank
had a vent on top. I don't remember a fuel filter on the tank. The
tractors had sediment bowls with screens.
I don't remember many fuel problems.
We stored car gas in a couple 55 gallon drums mounted sideways. I
think the smaller hole was down and had a valve on it. We would fill
five gallon containers then pour the gas into the vehicles.
The gas was actually the same leaded stuff. The only difference was
which tank it was put in. The tractor fuel was tax free.
CRNG
Nov 5, 2012, 6:13:36 AM11/5/12
to
On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:39:05 -0500, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote in
<pitd98hqptm5ha2ki...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
For Small Equipment?:
>You can see my
>arrangement here
>
>http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
At that link, it states:
011022 Watts Delivered since 05/10/07
What does that mean?
<pitd98hqptm5ha2ki...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
For Small Equipment?:
>You can see my
>arrangement here
>
>http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
011022 Watts Delivered since 05/10/07
What does that mean?
Neon John
Nov 5, 2012, 11:39:53 AM11/5/12
to
counts the number of page views.
CRNG
Nov 5, 2012, 1:31:48 PM11/5/12
to
On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:39:53 -0500, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote in
<2tqf98toisaild7vl...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
as I get older.
<2tqf98toisaild7vl...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
For Small Equipment?:
>On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:13:36 -0600, CRNG <Sp...@uce.gov> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:39:05 -0500, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote in
>><pitd98hqptm5ha2ki...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
>>For Small Equipment?:
>>
>>>You can see my
>>>arrangement here
>>>
>>>http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
>>
>>At that link, it states:
>>
>>011022 Watts Delivered since 05/10/07
>>
>>What does that mean?
>
>That's just a little joke. The number is actually my hit counter that
>counts the number of page views.
Oooops. Sorry for missing the obvious. That happens more frequently
>On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:13:36 -0600, CRNG <Sp...@uce.gov> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 04 Nov 2012 18:39:05 -0500, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote in
>><pitd98hqptm5ha2ki...@4ax.com> Re Re: Managing Gasoline
>>For Small Equipment?:
>>
>>>You can see my
>>>arrangement here
>>>
>>>http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
>>
>>At that link, it states:
>>
>>011022 Watts Delivered since 05/10/07
>>
>>What does that mean?
>
>That's just a little joke. The number is actually my hit counter that
>counts the number of page views.
as I get older.
Larry
Nov 6, 2012, 8:50:07 PM11/6/12
to
In article <43fa985vu2i083556...@4ax.com>, x...@y.Invalid says...
> I'm currently using what many others use: OSHA-approved poly gas
> containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
> age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
> tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
> tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
>
> I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
I just ditch the spouts and use an old fashioned fuel funnel. If you want a
lighter can, use a smaller one. There are 1 gal. and 2.5 gallon cans
available.
> I'm currently using what many others use: OSHA-approved poly gas
> containers with those maddening eco-spouts that, with a little
> age on them, don't open up when the can is pressed into the gas
> tank opening and then jam while the can is inverted into a gas
> tank causing spillage when the spout is withdrawn while open.
>
> I'd like to convert to something more user-friendly.
lighter can, use a smaller one. There are 1 gal. and 2.5 gallon cans
available.
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