dealing with "meat" bees
Don Sawtelle
Except in winter we have an omnipresent bee population that is
attracted to water and to cat food (and presumably anything else of a
similarly bee-edible nature, like a picnic). In this season they form a
buzzing presence at the end of the house where we feed the cats.
Unfortunately we can't feed the cats inside. Besides, they come to
water also, and our two-year-old likes to play with water.
The people who lived here before us had hung a bleach bottle in a tree
and it's about 1/4 full of dead bees from the previous year(s?). I
don't know exactly how they set up their trap, but I wonder if a trap
like that can substantially reduce the overall supply of bees.
The locals call these "meat bees," and say that they bite.
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who can provide advice on reducing
the nuisance of these bees, or can perhaps provide any trivia about how
they're different from regular old honey bees. I am generally a live
and let live type, but it's hard to keep that attitude with so many
this close to the house, and with young children about.
Thanks!
---
Don Sawtelle:Stonecutter Software:Mariposa, CA
sawt...@stonecutter.com
Tom Perigrin
Hi, I'm a beekeeper.
The average hive has 20,000 to 100,000 bees, so a 1/4 gallon of bees is not
much of a % of the population.
I would supect from the timing of you message, and your location, that you
have gone into the fall "decline", where the number of flowering plants
has gone way down, and there are lots of idle surplus workers (kinda like
the US economy?). These workers look for any decent source of protein,
to store to help the colony over the winter. Generally the workers at
this time of year are older... and older bees tend to be grumpy bees.
If I'm right, you should see serious decline in your problems in 3 to 6
weeks, as the old ones die off and arn't replaced (the queen slows laying
WAY down as a response to fall decline).
Possibilities include;
1) put out some water for the bees. Take a plastic bucket, put some
hardware cloth in it so they can walk up and down, and then keep it filled
2/3 with water. You can fill it at night. They will prefer easily accesable
water without 2 yr olds, especially if it's closer to home.
2) find the hive, and then get a beekeeper to come out to move them. Small
problem is that the hive can be up to three miles away (although it is
most likely within 1/2 to 1 mile). And even when you do find it, no
beekeeper will take it this time of year. It would die over the winter
because of loses incurred in the move. "A swarm in may is worth a
rick of hay, a swarm after july isn't worth a dead fly"
3) You could make a bee proof cat feeding station. Make a medium sized
box (3' * 3' * 1.5 high) out of 2*4's, and window screening, with a normal
cat door in it. The cats can come and go, but the bees will be
excluded.
4) You could learn all about beekeeping, set up your own hive, and have
your bees outcompete the wild bees, get honey, entertainment, etc...
You can get bees that are very mild mannered. I have one hive I regularly
open and manipulate without any protective equipment to astonish guests
(this is actually a hard thing to do safely). But with the right
equipment (smoker, veil, gloves) you can easily manipulate a hive. Then
during the fall decline you can water and feed them. The feeding will
keep them happy, and away from the cat food. And then you harvest the
honey, and you feel like the feeding did two things; a) made honey which
YOU eat b) kept the bees away from trouble.
5) There is a compound known as "bee go", which is very effective at
repelling bees. It doesn't last long, stinks like heck. But it is
a good short term solution for emergencies.
I'll be happy to discuss anything about beekeeping.
Mark Crispin
mellifera) at all but rather a yellow-colored wasp of the Vespidae family.
They have a well-deserved reputation for ill temper and ruining picnics and
barbeques. My Venus Fly-Trap likes 'em though.
Yellow jackets are often attracted by perfume, cologne, or deodorant, so if
you use any of these watch out. They usually won't sting unless provoked, but
`provocation' can include trying to brush them away from your face or your
food...
They nest in thick brush (keep your bamboo thinned out if you know what's good
for you...) and, unfortunately, in attics. You have a *major* hassle if
yellow jackets build a nest in your attic -- it's time to call an exterminator
if that happens (and some exterminators charge extra to deal with yellow
jackets). They also build nests under the eaves.
It's impossible to get rid of them if you live in any kind of wooded area, but
frequent application of chemicals will chase them away from your house. There
are various folklore remedies for keeping yellow jackets away from your
barbeque, but most people just give up during the prime yellow jacket season.
Presumably the nasty things have some useful purpose for existing. I hope so,
since they're an inescapable part of rural life.
David Hinz Mfg 4-6987
:
: Hi, I'm a beekeeper.
:
(loads of fascinating stuff deleted)
: I'll be happy to discuss anything about beekeeping.
I've got an old oak log in my pasture that I was hoping to burn this winter.
It's about 3' in diameter, by 8' long. Lotsa wood. Problem is, the bees
(don't know for sure, but they look like honeybees) have taken up residence in
the hollow part in the middle. I'd hate to kill off the hive, but I'd hate
to have the log rot. Would you advise leaving it until spring, and having
a local bee-keeper take them out? I assume that you wouldn't reccomend doing
it at this time of year, especially in sunny Wisconsin.
--
Dave Hinz - Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. Obviously.
hi...@picard.med.ge.com
Dave Dabay
>Tom Perigrin (t...@lead.aichem.arizona.edu) wrote:
>:
>: Hi, I'm a beekeeper.
>:
>(loads of fascinating stuff deleted)
>
>: I'll be happy to discuss anything about beekeeping.
>
>
>I've got an old oak log in my pasture that I was hoping to burn this winter.
>It's about 3' in diameter, by 8' long. Lotsa wood. Problem is, the bees
>(don't know for sure, but they look like honeybees) have taken up residence in
>the hollow part in the middle. I'd hate to kill off the hive, but I'd hate
>to have the log rot. Would you advise leaving it until spring, and having
>a local bee-keeper take them out? I assume that you wouldn't reccomend doing
>it at this time of year, especially in sunny Wisconsin.
>
As a beekeeper also, I wish I were there....
If you take the hive now, you would need to leave them with enough
honey to winter over. Chances are that the log would not rot until
spring time tho, so I wouldn't worry with that one...
First you need to verify that they are in fact honey-bees
A local beekeeeper would more than likely be able to help you.
If they are not honeybees, then have them exterminated....
thanks
dave
--
Dave Dabay Senior Programmer/Analyst 703-831-5482 KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services Internet: dda...@ruacad.ac.runet.edu
Tom Perigrin
Wow, a swarm in an oak log. Neat. There was an American Bee Journal
article on how to remove such a hive this (or last) year. As the article
pointd out, with queens and bees selling for $30/5 pounds, it isn't
economically feasible to take such hives.
BUT
Beekeepers are kinda romantic ol' souls. So a lot of beekeepers do this
sort of thing as a "roots" kinda trip... back to the days when all bees
were obtained this way. Heck, people even go "hive hunting"... you
capture wild bees, feed them sugar ina little glass topped box, and
when they are completely full, let them go, one at a time and watch
which way she goes... walk a dozen steps in that direction, le tthe
next one go and eventually you can walk all the way back to the hive.
So I imagine that if you get in touch with beekeepers now, they will come
out, OOOOH and AAAAAH, and start making plans for next spring!
David Hinz Mfg 4-6987
:
: Wow, a swarm in an oak log. Neat. There was an American Bee Journal
: article on how to remove such a hive this (or last) year. As the article
: pointd out, with queens and bees selling for $30/5 pounds, it isn't
: economically feasible to take such hives.
:
: BUT
:
: Beekeepers are kinda romantic ol' souls. So a lot of beekeepers do this
OK, I have no problem leaving the log sit there over the winter, but I
will call the beekeeper to verify that a> he wants them, and b> they are
honeybees. That log would probably heat my house for a MONTH, but it'll
just be a month in 1994 instead of 1993. No big deal.
Thanks for the input!
Kenton A. Hoover
[talks about a problem bee infestation]
A number of years ago, a bee colony took up residence inside my second
cousin's house up in Bodega. Their new hive was inside an exterior wall,
and periodically a few bees would find their way into the house and sting
one of us, or at least bash its brains out against the wall.
The solution was a home-grown one, and was derived from some reading I
did on what would inadvertantly kill off bee colonies.
3/5ths sugar water
1/5th anise liquour
1/5th malathion
It works really well. The idea is to make sure that the dose of
pesticide isn't so big that the bees die off right away, but rather
go home to feed mom and the kids.
Or, if you are dealing with yellow jackets instead of bees, there
is an alternative formula. Get some meat you wouldn't eat yourself
or feed to your family, and marinate it in your pesticide of choice.
Leave it out for your insect friends. Keep it WELL AWAY from anyone
or anything you like (such as cats). Feeds a family of quite a few.
These solutions aren't very kind, I will admit. But its cheaper than
hiring an exterminator, and if you can't get a local beekeeper to
move the hive for you, you might give it a try.
As a 'PS', who buys those 'nice' yellow jacket traps and actually
releases the yellow jackets when their picnics are over?
(flames to /dev/null)
| Kenton A. Hoover |
| P.O. Box 882643 +1 415 957 3614 |
| San Francisco, Kalifornia 94188-2643 shi...@joes.garage.com |
|==============442.075+100=146.850+=444.625+131.8=440.900+114.8===============|
| There are really only two crimes in California: misdemenor bad attitude |
| and felony bad attitude |
Tom Perigrin
>The solution was a home-grown one, and was derived from some reading I
>did on what would inadvertantly kill off bee colonies.
>
>3/5ths sugar water
>1/5th anise liquour
>1/5th malathion
>
>It works really well. The idea is to make sure that the dose of
>pesticide isn't so big that the bees die off right away, but rather
>go home to feed mom and the kids.
As a beekeeper I was saddened to read this note. But I'm a realist and
know that bees occasionally have to be exterminated.
However, another little dose of reality here. The above idea probably
works, but not as the poster suggests.
Bees do not eat nectar or unripe honey. They eat pollen moistened with
honey, and aged honey. (except in certain rare cicumstances).
When a bee collects nectar they ingest it into a honey stomach. This
stomach is lined with absorbtive membranes, to start reducing the
60 - 90% water content of the nectar. By the time they reach the hive
the concentration is alredy down to 40%. The bees then regurgitate the
thickened nectar, and start kneading it on their mandibles to increase
surface area. When the water concentration is down to 17 - 20%, they put
it in uncapped cells, and allow it to stand. The hive has a flow of air
through it... if there isn't a natural one, they fan thier wings.
When the water concentration is low enough, they cap the cell.
The honey stomach is also highly absorbtive of insecticides. So you kill
off the workers, probably on their way home. In fact, hives post
guard bees , and if a worker actsa a little funny (signs of pesticide
ingestion) they refuse entry to the worker. The worker never fights,
just hangs around outside of the hive until it either gets better or
dies.
You don't need to kill off the queen to kill a hive. The social structure
is too rigid to enable them to adapt to a drastic change in propulation
distribution. The oldeest bees (3 - 7 weeks) are the foragers. The
younger bees (1-3 weeks) are the nurses. The nurses will go out to forage,
but then the very youngest bees (0-1 week) are pressed into survice as
nurses. It turns out that such young bees make very poor nurses. Over half
of the larvae die from over or underfeeding. The population takes a sudden
huge downturn, which further exacerbates the problem of nursing the eggs.
Bee hives have a crises point below which they are not self sustaining.
You can get below that crises population by just killing off all of the
workers who venture out of the hive over a couple of day period.
After that, the larvae start dying from poor nursing, the youngest bees try
to forage too early (before thier wings are fully hardened) and die after a
few days, and nobody feeds mom. She lays low quality eggs, and eventually
starves to death. Only bees of a certain age (2-3 weeks) are aloowed to feed
the queen. She cannot eat honey by herself, even if it is put right in
front of her. She only eats by mouth to mouth transfer of partly digested
food.
The drones (male bees) will often just move to another hive, where
pickings are better. Those that remain behind bully the few
remaining nurse bees into feeding them, instead of tending to the larvae.
Only foragers and guard bees stand up to drones, and they are generally
the first killed in a pesticide attack.
The hive may overheat or chill due to lack of fanning
or heat clustering, so the larvae and pupae die of cold or heat.
Those pupae who do hatch tend to be deformed due to temperature damage
during developmental stages. Often they die in the hive, and start to
rot, spreading contagion through the hive.
It's the bee equivalent of the black plague.
Fun, eh?
Better to just gas 'em or something. Your solution takes about 2 or 3 weeks
to run it's full course. You won't see most of the results, but it's
social disruption and starvation, not distribution of poison. So,
as I said, i imagine your method is effective, but not as you thought.
Jane Beckman
bees. I'd just like to observe (as a beekeeper) that if
you're going to put out delicious poison-cocktails for the
bees, make sure that's not poisoning the bees of the beekeeper
down the road. We get rather grinchy when our bees suddenly
start falling over on the floor of the hive, and poison in the
honey is also one of those things that doesn't make for happy
campers. Commercial beekeepers have been known to file
lawsuits for indiscriminant poisoning.
The bottom line is make sure your bait is damned close to your
problem hive. Not where every bee in the neighborhood is
going to imbibe.
Personally, I recommend calling up the ag bureau and seeing
if there's a local ag supplier that sells PT-110 Resmethrin
areosol spray, a popular way of disposing of problem hives.
--
Jilara [ja...@swdc.stratus.com]
"Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out." --Barry
Shein, on the net
carriep...@gmail.com
scf...@gmail.com
> I have the same pqroblem - all I want to do is feed my cats outside and some of them are kittens and the bees are always walking on their food and stuff. There are quite a few bees and they just keep hanging around I hope theqy are not dangerous to my cats but the cats don't seem to like them, they will just ignore the food if the bees don't leave. I try to clean the bowls frequently but it hasn't stopped the problem - I wish I could get the bees to leave.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
YK
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Neon John
>The problem you folks are dealing with are wasps and yellow jackets, not honey bees. If you put out a sweet poison you are killing honey bees. Put out a poison mixed in a high protein bait (cat food, obviously). Suspend it somewhere your cats cannot reach it like from a metal hanger and you will eliminate your problem.
with the bright yellow stripes. They'll eat meat when nothing else is
available but they much prefer sweets.
The german yellojacket's colors are much more subdued than US jackets.
They are very aggressive and will attack in swarms They build their
nests above-ground, usually in rotted structures or tree forks. Their
sting is much more painful than the US jackets.
The solution is Fipronil, a long delayed acting insectide that is the
main ingredient in FrontLine cat flea treatment. NOT FrontLine Plus
and NOT dog treatment.
The idea for the long delayed characteristic is so the workers take
the Fipronil back to the queen which is eventually killed.
About 5 years ago we had a horrible German yellow jacket and hornet
invasion. On a jar lid I mixed a bit of ground beef with a single
drop of Fipronil and on the other side I did the same with some honey
and another drop of Fipronil.
Within 3 weeks this area (about 50 acres) was sterile for stinging
insects. It's taken this long for them to start to recover. I'm
already seeing enough of those critters that I'm going to do another
treatment before it gets hot.
John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
roof...@yahoo.com
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
> Haven’t noticed any of the German varieties here in Upstate NY. Can’t wait - sounds fun. Biggest problem here are the mud wasps. Already some waking up and getting in the house somehow.
>
FUCKIN' PEASANT!