iOS 15 support

[*Hemidactylus*]

To what extent and how long will iOS 15 receive important updates from
Apple once iOS 16 is released and older devices (iPhones 6 and 7) are left
behind? The security updates would be most important down the road.

[nospam]

In article <GA6dneeZqNT-QHf_...@giganews.com>,

it mostly depends on orphaned devices. given that ios 16 won't run on
an iphone 6s & 7, it's likely it will get at least a few updates. ios
12 was unusual in that it received a few years of updates.

ios 12.5.5 was released september, 2021
ios 13.7 was released september, 2020
ios 14.8.1 was released october 2021

[Chris]

It depends. With iOS 15 Apple had a dual release model for a while where
people could chose to stay on iOS 14 and get updates. Not sure how well
that worked and whether they'll do that again.

But I wouldn't expect more than one or two updates after iOS 16 is
released.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> it mostly depends on orphaned devices. given that ios 16 won't run on
> an iphone 6s & 7, it's likely it will get at least a few updates. ios
> 12 was unusual in that it received a few years of updates.

Notice how soon iOS dies compared to _every_ non-Apple platform.

Why?
There are lots of reasons iOS dies sooner than all other platforms.
a. The main reason is that Apple kills it
b. But the secondary reasons is it's a primitive monolithic joke
c. Worse, the key apps are tied into that stone-age monolith

Hence, while consumer OS platforms are updated essentially forever...
iOS simply dies

[News]

Planned elimination (if not obsolescence)

[*Hemidactylus*]

Piss off worthless troll.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Thanks.

[Your Name]

The usual anti-Apple troll bollocks. Try updating an old mobile device
to the latest Android ... can't be done. Try updating an old computer
to the latest Windows ... can't be done.

Every OS developer on Earth eventually drops support for old devices,
no matter how many people are still using them.

[Hank Rogers]

Nonsense. Arlen tells us that the very first android device can
download the latest version. I believe him because he has the
highest IQ and has even posted evidence of his brilliance. I have
even seen rare pictures of the books he has.

I trust him exactly the same as I trust donald trump. So there.

[Andy Burnelli]

*Hemidactylus* wrote:

>> Hence, while consumer OS platforms are updated essentially forever...
>> iOS simply dies
>>
> Piss off worthless troll.

Why do you hate the fact that only Apple products kill off the operating
system sooner than any other common consumer operating system out there?

By way of comparative example, Android has the key apps available back to
the time that the Android operating system was still nascent - and they're
being updated daily as we speak, many years later.

Likewise with Windows operating systems and key apps, although Internet
Explorer had it reign for too long (much like Safari) if you ask me.

[Andy Burnelli]

Your Name wrote:

> The usual anti-Apple troll bollocks. Try updating an old mobile device
> to the latest Android ... can't be done.

The fact remains a fact that Apple kills operating systems sooner than
any other maker of common consumer operating systems...

Such that... *Apple products just die on you.*

You _hate_ the fact Apple products have the shortest support lifecycle.
But the fact you hate that fact doesn't change the fact it's a fact.

> Try updating an old computer
> to the latest Windows ... can't be done.

My desktop is from 2008 and, as such, it has had _many_ versions of Windows
on it since then, and currently it runs Windows 10 just fine.

By way of stark contrast, due to the stone-age iOS monolithic design and
Apple marketing strategy of killing off its old products, try to run a
modern iOS on an Apple device from that same time frame.

Note the _adult_ observation: It can't be done.
Why not?

Because Apple kills off their operating systems sooner than anyone else.

> Every OS developer on Earth eventually drops support for old devices,
> no matter how many people are still using them.

My desktop was built in 2008 and it runs the key Windows 10 apps just fine.

My point is clearly that you iKooks don't realize this fundamental fact:
*Apple kills off their operating systems sooner than anyone else.*
--
I realize iKooks not only hate me, but they fear me, because they have no
adult defense to the facts that I present to them (which they hate).

[Alan]

Computers and smartphones are different devices, and computers haven't
changed nearly as much since 2008 as smartphones have.

iOS 15 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 6s...

...which was released nearly 7 years ago.

What is the oldest Android phone supported by the most current version
of Android, hmmm?

[Jolly Roger]

One example: The HTC Dream was released in 2008 as the first device to
use the Android operating system, and can't run anything past Android
*1.6* (Donut): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream> For those
keeping track, the current Android release is Android *12* which was
released on October 4, 2021.

The resident Apple-hating troll, Andy (Arlen), reeeeally wants you to
ignore this FACT. ; )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Wade Garrett]

On 8/5/22 3:24 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2022-08-05, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-04 17:14, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>
>>> My desktop was built in 2008 and it runs the key Windows 10 apps just
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> My point is clearly that you iKooks don't realize this fundamental
>>> fact: *Apple kills off their operating systems sooner than anyone
>>> else.*
>>
>> Computers and smartphones are different devices, and computers haven't
>> changed nearly as much since 2008 as smartphones have.
>>
>> iOS 15 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 6s...
>>
>> ...which was released nearly 7 years ago.
>>
>> What is the oldest Android phone supported by the most current version
>> of Android, hmmm?
>
> One example: The HTC Dream was released in 2008 as the first device to
> use the Android operating system, and can't run anything past Android
> *1.6* (Donut): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream> For those
> keeping track, the current Android release is Android *12* which was
> released on October 4, 2021.
>
> The resident Apple-hating troll, Andy (Arlen), reeeeally wants you to
> ignore this FACT. ; )
>

Gave up on Android phones several years back after several of the fairly
recent model nice ones I had couldn't be OS updated.

Certainly not happy paying the Apple Tax but at least Tim does seem to
support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which has
given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.

[nospam]

In article <tcjtaq$1og8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Wade Garrett

<wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> Certainly not happy paying the Apple Tax

myth. similar android phones cost about the same.

> but at least Tim does seem to
> support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which has
> given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.

the 6s is 7 years old. that's a long time to keep a phone.

[Andy Burnelli]

Wade Garrett wrote:

> Gave up on Android phones several years back after several of the fairly
> recent model nice ones I had couldn't be OS updated.

What these low IQ uneducated iKooks don't comprehend is the _adult_ concept
of a layered update mechanism, which the primitive iOS monolith lacks.

Hence every other operating system supports devices far longer than iOS.

For example, the Android default browser run on almost every Android.
So does the Android default messenger.
As does the Android default dialer.
etc.

And system updates are now down for all Android phones over the Internet.
Note the carrier is no longer involved (even for firmware updates!)

As such, Android is updated essentially forever (there is no EOL date).
By way of contrast with the stone-age laughably primitive iOS monolith...

*iOS... it just dies*

[Alan]

Oh, look!

Statements of purported "fact" without any supporting citations!

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> The resident Apple-hating troll...

What is consistent about iKooks is they fear facts more than anything else.

What's clear is that Jolly Roger is _completely clueless_ how Android (and
all modern operating systems) are updated... in layers... essentially
forever.

Which is why the default Android browser works on almost all Android
phones, as does the default Android messenger, as does the default Android
YouTube app, as does the default Android map app, as does the default
Android phone dialer, as do _all_ the default Android apps.

Unlike iOS...

These low IQ completely uneducated iKooks only know what Apple feeds them.
They're completely unaware almost all of Android is updated over the web.

Heck... they're clueless that even the firmware is now updated that way.

[Alan]

On 2022-08-05 13:23, Andy Burnelli wrote:

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> the 6s is 7 years old. that's a long time to keep a phone.

The fact remains that Android is layered, as are almost all modern
operating systems... except iOS (which is a stone-age monolith).

Over two dozen of the core modules are now updated over the Internet.
Even the firmware is now being updated over the Internet for Android.

The carrier isn't even involved anymore.

A simple working example that even the low-IQ uneducated iKooks can
comprehend (let's hope) is that the default web browser for iOS is Safari
while the default web browser for Android is Chrome, which is continually
and almost ceaselessly updated on almost all Android phones extant.

Likewise (and even more so) for the default messenger, the default dialer,
the default video player, the default map app, the default search app, the
default app store app, the default calendar app, the default file browser,
etc.

By way of stark contrast, even the ill-educated low-IQ iKooks know that is
definitely not even close to the case for the default iOS Apple apps.

Android: It's updated essentially forever now.
iOS: *It still just dies*

[nospam]

In article <tcjufb$7e7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> As such, Android is updated essentially forever (there is no EOL date).

as such, you are lying again.

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/google-will-kill-off-very-old-v
ersions-of-android-next-month/>
Starting September 27, devices running Android 2.3.7 and lower
will no longer be able to log in to Google services, effectively
killing a big portion of the on-rails Android experience.
...
This isn't the first time Google has killed off older versions of
Android because of higher login security. The Android 1.0-era
apps have been broken for years

<https://www.gsmarena.com/google_will_stop_updating_play_services_for_de
vices_running_android_jelly_bean-news-49967.php>
Google will soon stop updating Play Services for phones running
Android Jelly Bean ­ this covers all three versions, 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3
(API version 16 through 18, respectively).

there's more, but that's sufficient to prove you wrong yet again.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> As such, Android is updated essentially forever (there is no EOL date).
>
> as such, you are lying again.

Facts... are what iKooks are afraid of... since *iOS just dies*

What is interesting about you, nospam, is not that you have a low IQ nor
that you were never educated, nor even that you defend all of Apple's flaws
to the death... as all you iKooks own the confluence of those three traits.

No. What is interesting about you, nospam, is that you are the _smartest_
of the iKooks, in that you didn't try to defend Apple's flaws (in this case
anyway) by claiming all facts you _hate_ about Apple products are wrong.

Instead, you simply said all facts you hate about Apple products are lies.

Since you're the smartest of the low-IQ uneducated iKooks nospam, let's
take the _simplest_ possible case of default apps, shall we?
a. iOS === Safari
b. Android === Chrome

As you may be well aware, Chrome is updated at least way back to icecream
sandwhich (as I recall - but we can look up the exact date).

Simple question of fact:
*How many years ago was it that icecream sandwhich was released?*

Now, let's take the case of the default iOS browser, shall we?
*What is the oldest iOS version the latest version of Safari supports?*

[Jolly Roger]

On 2022-08-05, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> On 2022-08-05, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On 2022-08-05, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> >> On 2022-08-04 17:14, Andy Burnelli wrote:

Notice how Andy (Arlen) snips pertinent quoted text from his replies
(which I have graciously restored below) because his unhealthy obsession
and hatred of Apple forces him to refuse to acknowledge factual
discourse here. Just lame!

> >>> My desktop was built in 2008 and it runs the key Windows 10 apps
> >>> just fine.
> >>>
> >>> My point is clearly that you iKooks don't realize this fundamental
> >>> fact: *Apple kills off their operating systems sooner than anyone
> >>> else.*
> >>
> >> Computers and smartphones are different devices, and computers
> >> haven't changed nearly as much since 2008 as smartphones have.
> >>
> >> iOS 15 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 6s...
> >>
> >> ...which was released nearly 7 years ago.
> >>
> >> What is the oldest Android phone supported by the most current
> >> version of Android, hmmm?
> >
> > One example: The HTC Dream was released in 2008 as the first device
> > to use the Android operating system, and can't run anything past
> > Android *1.6* (Donut): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream> For
> > those keeping track, the current Android release is Android *12*
> > which was released on October 4, 2021.
> >
> > The resident Apple-hating troll, Andy (Arlen), reeeeally wants you
> > to ignore this FACT. ; )
>

> What is consistent about iKooks is they fear facts more than anything
> else.
>
> What's clear is that Jolly Roger is _completely clueless_ how Android
> (and all modern operating systems) are updated... in layers...
> essentially forever.

What is clear is that no matter how many words Arlen throws at the wall,
he can't change the FACT that many Android smartphones CANNOT AND WILL
NEVER run the latest version of Android, which is why he tries to move
the goal post below to talk abut apps instead of the operating system.
He'll do *anything* to avoid acknowledging FACTS that disagree with his
LIES. He's a pathetic and useless troll who spends his every waking
moment trolling the Apple news groups due to his irrational and
obsessive hatred of all things Apple. He serves no actual useful purpose
on this planet. He lives a life of pure hatred and anger. He's a piece
of shit human being who is a net negative to society. He's a pathetic
fucking turd. : )

> Which is why the default Android browser works on almost all Android
> phones, as does the default Android messenger, as does the default
> Android YouTube app, as does the default Android map app, as does the
> default Android phone dialer, as do _all_ the default Android apps.

BLAH BLAH BLAH... Just *desperately* trying to move the goal posts.
*Anything* but acknowledging the FACT that many Android devices CANNOT and
WILL NEVER run the latest Android OS. : )

> Unlike iOS...
>
> These low IQ completely uneducated iKooks only know what Apple feeds
> them. They're completely unaware almost all of Android is updated
> over the web.
>
> Heck... they're clueless that even the firmware is now updated that
> way.
>
> As such, Android is updated essentially forever (there is no EOL
> date). By way of contrast with the stone-age laughably primitive iOS
> monolith...
>
> *iOS... it just dies*

LIES are all poor, little Arlen has. He DESPERATELY wants you to ignore
the FACT that iOS devices DO NOT "just die" after Apple stops supporting
them with major OS upgrades, and many of them remain useful for YEARS
afterward. ; )

[nospam]

In article <tcjvct$jnh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Facts... are what I do not have and never have had.

ftfy

[Your Name]

But does she even want, let alone need, the new OS?

These days all operating systems are simply adding more and more
useless/niche gimmickry that 99% of users don't ever use. They should
instead be concentrting on fixing all the bugs (many that have existed
for years) and making the OS more efficient. Anyone who actually wants
any of the gimmickry can add it as an App Store extra.

[Hank Rogers]

Indeed. I think phones simply should expire when 2 years old.
Should display only purchasing ads, or maybe something like
microsoft's "your system can't run windows 11"

TELEPHONES SHOULD BE SOLD WITH AN EXPIRATION DATE ON THE BOX!

Like a jug of milk, or a loaf of bread.

[Hank Rogers]

He has a hell of a lot of books though. And he's an *ADULT*

Doesn't that make him a genius?

[*Hemidactylus*]

Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
> *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>
>>> Hence, while consumer OS platforms are updated essentially forever...
>>> iOS simply dies
>>>
>> Piss off worthless troll.
>
> Why do you hate the fact that only Apple products kill off the operating
> system sooner than any other common consumer operating system out there?
>

I hate the fact that worthless trolls like you kill off informative
discussion and ruin threads sooner than any other loser basement dweller
with internet access. You’ve effectively destroyed this newsgroup. Proud of
yourself for that?

[snip irrelevant open mouth drooling]

[nospam]

In article <T6hHK.567208$vAW9....@fx10.iad>, Hank Rogers

<ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> TELEPHONES SHOULD BE SOLD WITH AN EXPIRATION DATE ON THE BOX!
>
> Like a jug of milk, or a loaf of bread.

like sour milk, phones should have an odor so you know it needs to be
discarded.

[nospam]

In article <cfhHK.146986$%i2.6...@fx48.iad>, Hank Rogers

<ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > In article <tcjvct$jnh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
> > <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> Facts... are what I do not have and never have had.
> >
> > ftfy
> >
>
> He has a hell of a lot of books though.

at least four.

> And he's an *ADULT*

evidence suggests otherwise.

> Doesn't that make him a genius?

it does not.

[John]

Yet Win 11 is not made for PCs older than about three years old. Won't
even let you install unless you apply a hack.

[Your Name]

Plus, nobody is forcing you to upgrade your OS or hardware anyway
(unless your hardware breaks of course).

I continued to use MacOS 9 for years after Apple changed over to OS X.
Later I used OS X 10.2 for many years, long after Apple had moved
upwards. Now I'm still using 10.13 even though Apple will soon be
releasing MacOS 12 - if I really needed to I could easily upgrade my
nearly-10 year old Mac to use MacOS 11, without any need of any hack or
workaround.

Then of course there's the fact that MacOS upgrades are free, while you
have to pay to be a Windoze fool.

[Andy Burnelli]

John wrote:

> Yet Win 11 is not made for PCs older than about three years old. Won't
> even let you install unless you apply a hack.

I never disagree with facts.
Only fools disagree with facts.
That's _why_ they're fools, in fact.

Agree that Windows 11 has very specific hardware requirements which negates
its installation on quite a few not even that old desktop & laptop systems.

Also agree Microsoft finally pulled the anti-privacy trick Apple has been
using for years of _requiring_ a mothership tracking account on Win11 Home.

Also agree that Windows 11 is essentially Windows 10 dressed up in costume,
which is good because we can allow the corporate world who has the big
bucks to expend their resources to upgrade their systems to Win11 specs.

Meanwhile, a PC from circa 2005 runs Windows 10 just fine, as does mine.
It's only Apple platforms where the operating systems "*just die*" on you.

By way of example, Android is now updated essentially forever.
And, most of Android is updated completely outside the carrier nowadays.
Even Qualcomm firmware is now updated using the Google Play Store nowadays.

Maybe you can find a common operating system that dies sooner than iOS.
Otherwise, iOS is the worst in terms of the operating system dying on us.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> snips pertinent quoted text from his replies

FACTs are things that low-IQ uneducated people like jR can't process.

FACT #1:
It's common Internet courtesy to snip (anyone who wants to can go back and
see _exactly_ what's posted unless people purposefully put X-no-archive
in their headers, which I do not do because it's common courtesy not to.

FACT #2:
I snip _every_ response, and have been doing so for decades on Usenet.
For Jolly Roger to complain now is proof he doesn't comprehend basic facts.

> and hatred of Apple forces him to refuse to acknowledge factual
> discourse here. Just lame!

FACT #3:
It's common knowledge I own Linux, Windows, iOS, and Android products, and,
as such, it's common knowledge I post on all the common operating system
newsgroups. It's not just Apple newsgroups that I post facts to.

FACT #4:
It's common knowledge I post facts about Linux (e.g., canonical trying to
get us to buy their crappy desktop), about Windows (e.g., Microsoft trying
to take away our privacy by requiring a mothership tracking account), about
Android (e.g., Google removing login/password from their mail servers, etc.

FACT #5:
Nobody on the adult operating system newsgroups complains about these
facts. It's ONLY on the child-like Apple newsgroups where facts are hated.

> What is clear is that no matter how many words Arlen throws at the wall,
> he can't change the FACT that many Android smartphones CANNOT AND WILL
> NEVER run the latest version of Android

FACT #6:
Windows 10 runs essentially everything Windows 11 does, as does Windows 7,
8, and Vista, which goes back something like almost two decades in time.

There is nothing special about the operating system version on _all_
platforms other than the primitive monolithic laughably archaic iOS.

What matters are the applications you can run, where, in the case of
Android, all the default applications work just fine on almost every
Android phone out there today, whether that's the default browser, the
default mail user agent, the default youtube client, the default map
client, the default messenger, the default contacts app, the default
gallery app, the default camera, the default dialer, etc.

On iOS... *everything just dies*

> which is why he tries to move
> the goal post below to talk abut apps instead of the operating system.

The apps in iOS _are_ the operating system.

The fact that Jolly Roger is completely clueless that iOS is _different_
from all modern operating systems is yet another indication of his low IQ.

> He'll do *anything* to avoid acknowledging FACTS that disagree with his
> LIES.

And yet, the fact is Android is updated essentially forever nowadays.
*iOS just dies*

> He's a pathetic and useless troll who spends his every waking
> moment trolling the Apple news groups due to his irrational and
> obsessive hatred of all things Apple.

I probably own more Apple products than does Jolly Roger, so I find it
indicative of all iKooks that anyone who speaks facts about Apple producdts
is a danger to them.

I get it that Jolly Roger is afraid of facts.
I get it that Jolly Roger is therefore afraid of me.

But the fact JR hates facts doesn't change the fact they're still facts.

> He serves no actual useful purpose
> on this planet. He lives a life of pure hatred and anger.

And yet it's you, Jolly Roger (and Lewis too) who spew your fifth-grade
vitriol every tome someone speaks a fact about Apple that you hate.

And note, that's a _lot_ of facts you hate, Jolly Roger.

> He's a piece
> of shit human being who is a net negative to society. He's a pathetic
> fucking turd. : )

It's interesting that you can't discuss the facts like an adult, JR.
You act like a fifth grade bully told that Santa Claus isn't real, JR.

The fact that's how you respond to facts shows how _desperate_ you are.
You actually _hate_ it's a fact iOS dies sooner than all other systems.

Otherwise you wouldn't respond to that fact like a fifth grade held-back
bully does when he's told by other fifth graders that Santa Claus is a
marketing gimmick, Jolly Roger.

Otherwise, you'd act like an adult when faced with the facts, JR.

Here's a fact for you to discuss, for example, as an adult, JR:
*Find any common consumer operating system that dies _sooner_ than iOS*
*Find just one*

HINT: You can't.

> BLAH BLAH BLAH... Just *desperately* trying to move the goal posts.

The goal posts are that iOS dies sooner than all other operating systems.

> *Anything* but acknowledging the FACT that many Android devices CANNOT and
> WILL NEVER run the latest Android OS. : )

Android is now updated essentially forever.

You _hate_ that fact.

But the fact you hate that fact doesn't change the fact that's a fact.

> LIES are all poor, little Arlen has. He DESPERATELY wants you to ignore
> the FACT that iOS devices DO NOT "just die" after Apple stops supporting
> them with major OS upgrades, and many of them remain useful for YEARS
> afterward. ; )

If they truly are lies, then you should be able to act like an adult and
tell us which operating system dies _sooner_ than does iOS Jolly Roger.

Name just one.
--
HINT: An operating system is _everything_ you need, which includes the key
apps, the core services, the kernel, the graphical user interface, etc.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> ftfy

The _adults_ on this newsgroup will note that when I brought up the clear
and obvious evidence that *iOS dies sooner than other operating systems*,
the _only_ response nospam could come up with is this childish taunt.

Yet the fact remains a fact that iOS dies sooner than all other systems.

Why?
Because it's a primitive monolith, that's why.

On all other operating systems, the _layers_ are updated independently of
the operating system; but not on the stone-age iOS operating system.

So *iOS just dies*.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Doesn't that make him a genius?
>
> it does not.

If the only way you can respond to all facts you hate is to act like a
child, then that clearly and obviously shows you for what you are, nospam.

Remember... I'm on this newsgroup for _two_ reasons:

1. To learn from others and teach others about Apple products, and,
2. To show the world (for the permanent record) what you iKooks are.

In this case, you're so frightened by facts, you respond as a child.
Let's see if you can bring yourself to the adult level, shall we nospam?

*Name one common operating system that dies _sooner_ than does iOS.
*Name just one*

HINT: You can't.

[Andy Burnelli]

Your Name wrote:

> Then of course there's the fact that MacOS upgrades are free, while you
> have to pay to be a Windoze fool.

I never disagree with facts as only fools disagree with facts.
Where do you get the idea that Windows upgrades costs additional money?

I bought a desktop in circa 2008, and it had whatever Microsoft operating
system at the time (pro version) and then it has been upgraded so many
times I can't count the number of times it has been updated.

All for free.

Again, I never disagree with facts so I am wondering where you get your
facts from if you think that I paid for those upgrades, when I didn't.

I even updated some of the hardware and Windows _still_ recognized it as
the same computer. And I've wiped out and reformatted the hard drives many
times (as a bunch failed over the years since 2008).

If you're claiming that I paid for all those upgrades, then why don't I
know this "fact" you seem to be aware of that nobody else knows about.

If my circa 2008 desktop could support Windows 11, even _that_ would be
free (although Microsoft pulled the sleazy trick following Apple's lead of
requiring a mothership tracking account, so I'm perfectly happy to NOT
install Windows 11 since all the apps work just fine anyway as the
operating system is the sum total of everything you need to do what you
need to do).

In summary, I have been using the _same_ Windows license since circa 2008.
Yet you claim that's not what is happening.

Please explain your reasoning.

[Andy Burnelli]

*Hemidactylus* wrote:

>> Why do you hate the fact that only Apple products kill off the operating
>> system sooner than any other common consumer operating system out there?
>>
> I hate the fact that worthless trolls like you kill off informative
> discussion and ruin threads sooner than any other loser basement dweller
> with internet access. You¢ve effectively destroyed this newsgroup. Proud of
> yourself for that?

The permanent record clearly shows that the instant a fact is provided on
the child-like Apple newsgroups, the iKooks instantly devolve to their
kindergarten responses.

The fact remains a fact that iOS is _different_ than all other common
consumer operating systems, where the primitive monolithic iOS is NOT
updated in layers - but as a stone-age monolithic design.

Hence, for example, Chrome is updated on my Windows 10 desktop which
started its life as whatever Windows was around in 2008, and that Windows
has successively been updated for free over the years on my desktop.

And Chrome still is updated on it.

Likewise, Android is designed in layers where those layers are now updated
over the Internet completely outside the carriers and the manufacturers.

Having said that, I do realize low-IQ uneducated people like Hemidactylus
do NOT understand that Android and Windows are updated in layers.

Hence I dumb down the message to ask them a simple adult question...
*Name a modern operating system that dies _sooner_ than does iOS*
*Name just one*

Hint: You can't.

[Andy Burnelli]

Your Name wrote:

> These days all operating systems are simply adding more and more
> useless/niche gimmickry that 99% of users don't ever use. They should
> instead be concentrting on fixing all the bugs (many that have existed
> for years) and making the OS more efficient. Anyone who actually wants
> any of the gimmickry can add it as an App Store extra.

It's interesting that Your Name is telling it like it is, which is that
most common consumer operating systems are "mature" by now.

Hence, Android is mature; iOS is mature; Windows is mature; and Linux is
mature such that each successive "version" is no different than the last.

What matters are the applications that you can run on the operating system,
where we add a long thread on the Windows newsgroups each time Microsoft
"claims" a new operating system asking:
What can you do on Window "X" that you can't do on Windows "X-1"

Here's just one example:
*Is there any useful new Win11 functionality that isn't already in Win10?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/NCuZDp9k_nU/m/PnVEsFwsBgAJ>

Note that in many cases, the operating systems get _worse_ over time.
For example:
*How is Microsoft planning on making money from the future forced mothership login requirement?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/Nb5_b7aM-dI/m/FWFeeOAFAgAJ>

Note that Microsoft is following the sleazy lead that Apple did already:
*If Apple can permanently lock your hardware for not logging into it - why can't Microsoft do it too?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/IbpQSemnfmo/m/QFCmy0G5AQAJ>

Never forget iOS is _different_ from all common consumer operating system
in that iOS is a primitive monolithic stone-age all-or-nothing design.

So for iOS, the actual version number _does_ matter.
A lot.

But the version is meaningless for other common consumer operating systems.
You can install Chrome, for example, or Edge, or whatever default app you
want to on my Windows 10 which is on a desktop from circa 2008.

Likewise with almost all Android phones.
It's only iOS that "*just dies*" on you.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> like sour milk, phones should have an odor so you know it needs to be
> discarded.

Luckily for you nospam, iOS essentially does that as the stone-age monolith
"*just dies*" (unlike all other common consumer operating systems which are
layered and where those layers are updated essentially forever nowadays).

[Jolly Roger]

On 2022-08-06, Andy Burnelli <sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> What is clear is that no matter how many words Arlen throws at the
>> wall, he can't change the FACT that many Android smartphones CANNOT
>> AND WILL NEVER run the latest version of Android
>

> FACT #6: Windows 10 blah blah blah...

Note how Arlen *desperately* tries to move the goalpost to desktop
operating systems when confronted with the FACT that many Android
smartphones CANNOT AND WILL NEVER run the latest version of Android.
He's a pathetic and useless troll.

> On iOS... *everything just dies*
>

>> LIES are all poor, little Arlen has. He DESPERATELY wants you to
>> ignore the FACT that iOS devices DO NOT "just die" after Apple stops
>> supporting them with major OS upgrades, and many of them remain
>> useful for YEARS afterward. ; )

Pathetic troll. : )

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> Note how Arlen *desperately* tries to move the goalpost to desktop
> operating systems when confronted with the FACT that many Android
> smartphones CANNOT AND WILL NEVER run the latest version of Android.

You still don't get it Jolly Roger... because you don't own any intellect.
*It's not about the silly operating system version number... you fool*

Apple has you trained like a subservient dog, Jolly Roger.
You are salivating over something as silly as a meaningless version number.

You actually don't care that iOS dies sooner than all other operating
systems because all you seem to care about is the silly version number.

[nospam]

In article <tckopp$ab6$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Meanwhile, a PC from circa 2005 runs Windows 10 just fine,

no it doesn't

[nospam]

In article <tckq9c$mmm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> The apps in iOS _are_ the operating system.

nope. that is very much false, and is not unique to ios either.

go learn about what an operating system and apps actually are before
you dig yourself an even deeper hole.

[nospam]

In article <tckko8$18po$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> I continued to use MacOS 9 for years after Apple changed over to OS X.
> Later I used OS X 10.2 for many years, long after Apple had moved
> upwards.

where 'many years' was using a beige powermac g3 from 1997 running mac
os 9 and then mac os x 10.2 until just a few years ago, when that mac
finally stopped working.

> Now I'm still using 10.13 even though Apple will soon be
> releasing MacOS 12 -

mac os 12, aka monterey, was released last year.

> if I really needed to I could easily upgrade my
> nearly-10 year old Mac to use MacOS 11, without any need of any hack or
> workaround.

you won't.

> Then of course there's the fact that MacOS upgrades are free, while you
> have to pay to be a Windoze fool.

then of course there's the fact you haven't a clue. windows updates are
free and have been for many years.

[nospam]

In article <tckr4p$tdr$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> Remember... I'm on this newsgroup for _two_ reasons:

trolling and lying.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> The apps in iOS _are_ the operating system.
>
> nope. that is very much false, and is not unique to ios either.
>
> go learn about what an operating system and apps actually are before
> you dig yourself an even deeper hole.

Facts

What's _different_ about iOS, nospam, is it's built as an ancient monolith.
*The result is there is no operating system with a _shorter life_ - than iOS.*

When operating systems evolved, they learned to release in layers.
a. As such, Windows is updated essentially forever (my Win10 PC is 2008).
b. As is Linux (that same circa Win10 PC runs almost every linux around).
c. My Android is also layered such that its updated essentially forever.
Dozens of core operating system layers are updated over the Internet
Even the firmware layers are now being updated over the Internet
Certainly the key default apps are constantly updated over the Internet
etc.

That's not possible with the primitive stone-age monolithic iOS design.

You low-IQ uneducated iKooks have no idea operating systems are layered.
*As a result no common operating system has a _shorter life_ - than iOS.*

[nospam]

In article <tcm27b$uno$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:


> *The result is there is no operating system with a _shorter life_ - than iOS.*

windows phone says hello.

microsoft kin says howzit.

beos says bonjour.

palm os says aloha.

amiga os says hola.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Remember... I'm on this newsgroup for _two_ reasons:
>
> trolling and lying.

You iKooks can't form an _adult_ response to facts about Apple products.

The facts are:
a. iOS is a monolith while _all_ other common consumer OS's are layered
b. The primitive iOS monolith contains _all_ the layers in one release
c. All modern operating systems break the release into their layers

With iOS, it's all or nothing - and - worse - iOS dies soonest of all.

HINT: My circa 2008 desktop is _still_ running a free update of the
original Windows that it came with an decade and a half ago.

HINT: Android is layered into scores upon scores of layers, each of
which is independently released to the users over the Internet.

HINT: *iOS just dies*

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Meanwhile, a PC from circa 2005 runs Windows 10 just fine,
>
> no it doesn't

FACTS

I just snapped this screenshot for you nospam, where the PC I was
sitting at (which isn't my oldest PC running Windows 10) is from 2009.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3x3pZBfP/version01.jpg> Windows & Android updates

Why is it that you iKooks must resort to denying facts, like flat earth
proponents, just to maintain intact your completely imaginary beliefs?

Why must iKooks declare all facts are wrong - just because they hate facts?

Your beloved iOS operating system *just dies* on you so you "think" all
operating systems are built as a laughably primitive stone-age monolith.

My desktop is almost fifteen years old, nospam, and it was born with a
Windows version which has been constantly updated, for free, ever since.

Just like my modern Android phone, Windows updates in asynchronous layers.
But due to the primitive iOS archaic monolith - *iOS just dies* on users.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Then of course there's the fact that MacOS upgrades are free, while you
>> have to pay to be a Windoze fool.
>
> then of course there's the fact you haven't a clue. windows updates are
> free and have been for many years.

This is where nospam shows that he's the _smartest_ of the low-IQ iKooks.

It's no longer shocking the low-IQ uneducated iKooks like 'Your Name'
actually believe that Windows upgrades haven't been free for many years.

*Where do low-IQ uneducated iKooks get their belief systems from anyway?*

Here's a screenshot I just made of my 2009 desktop (which isn't even my
oldest) which is still upgraded for free to Windows 10 as are all the apps.

<https://i.postimg.cc/3x3pZBfP/version01.jpg> Windows & Android updates

Bear in mind, the zillions of default and add-on apps are what make an
operating system work for you. With Windows, Linux & Android - virtually
everything is updated almost forever because they update in layers.

*With the laughably primitive iOS monolith - all that suddenly just dies*

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> *The result is there is no operating system with a _shorter life_ - than iOS.*
>
> windows phone says hello.
>
> microsoft kin says howzit.
>
> beos says bonjour.
>
> palm os says aloha.
>
> amiga os says hola.

Note the best comparison you can find to iOS, are dead operating systems.

I never disagree with facts nospam, and I appreciate that your facts proved
my point in that I said all _common_ consumer operating systems many times.

What you found out were facts that _many_ nascent operating systems died.
And that's true. (Only a fool would dispute facts.)
(That's why they're fools.)

What you need to understand is I'm talking about _common_ consumer
operating systems, such as Linux, Android, & Windows compared to iOS.
<https://i.postimg.cc/W39XTWWZ/version01.jpg> Windows & Android updates

Those common consumer operating systems essentially are updated almost
forever which, in the case of Windows, for me, is my 2009 desktop is
still running Windows 10 with the constant free upgrades from Microsoft.

In addition, _all_ the apps run just fine as they are updated
asynchronously, which is important because with iOS - it all just dies.

Note the best comparison you can find to iOS, are dead operating systems.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

>> What is the oldest Android phone supported by the most current version
>> of Android, hmmm?
>
> One example: The HTC Dream was released in 2008

If the _best_ you can do to compare the iPhone to is the "HTC Dream",
then that shows how _desperate_ iKooks are to defend the demise of iOS.

*The fact remains Android is updated in _layers_ (while iOS is not).*

That means the default Android *web browser* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *messenger* isupdated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *mail client* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *calendar* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *file mgr* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *map app* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *gallery* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *camera app* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *av player* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *app store* is updated essentially forever.
That means the default Android *contact mgr* is updated essentially forever.
etc.

In addition, over two dozen core components of the underlying operating
system are updated now essentially forever asynchronously over the net.

By way of stark contrast, iOS just dies on you.
*All of it*

Gone.
*poof*

[sms]

On 8/5/2022 1:07 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:

<snip>

> Gave up on Android phones several years back after several of the fairly
> recent model nice ones I had couldn't be OS updated.
>
> Certainly not happy paying the Apple Tax but at least Tim does seem to
> support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which has
> given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.

I just installed 15.6 on my 6s Plus. Impressive that Apple is still
updating a phone released in 2015.

On my older flagship Android devices there are no upgrades to the latest
Android version, but they are still receiving security updates. My Note
9 shipped with Android 8 and received two updates and is now at Android
10, and won't get Android 11 or future new Android versions. But it gets
security updates, the most recent one was pushed out in June 2022, so
the device is still supported.

OTOH, the el-cheapo Android phones are getting only two years of
security updates--I checked my old LG Stylo 3 Plus and it received its
last security update in 2019.

It's also really not fair to base the choice of Android versus iOS on
how many complete OS updates you get. Android devices have OS features
that don't appear on iPhones until years later, if ever, so there's less
of a need for full OS upgrades. For example, my Samsung Note 9 had some
features in Android 8 (Oreo) that did not appear in iOS until iOS 15.
The Note 9 is running Android 10 now, which has features that are still
not yet present on the latest iOS version, though some of those features
are rumored for iOS 16. Even Android 8 had features that are not yet
present in iOS 15.6.

I expect that I'll retire my iPhone Xr in favor of an iPhone 15 Pro Max
in 2024. I'll wait for USB-C before upgrading again.

I have the 6s Plus active on a no-cost plan just in case I want to bring
along a cheap, smaller, phone when I go kayaking or bicycling, and will
only use it in case of emergency.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2022-08-06, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> It's also really not fair to base the choice of Android versus iOS

The only people comparing them are you and your troll buddies. The rest
of us couldn't care less because we don't have unhealthy obsessions and
irrational hatred of other operating systems or platform.

--

[nospam]

In article <tcmgv9$293u$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Android devices have OS features
> that don't appear on iPhones until years later, if ever, so there's less
> of a need for full OS upgrades.

false. you're trolling again.

very few features appear on android first. the vast majority of
features appear on ios first and later on android, if ever.

ios firsts are numerous, including retina displays, wide gamut
displays, 64 bit processors, bluetooth le, face id, 3d touch, secure
enclave, colorsync, truetone, arkit, airprint, homekit, healthkit, uwb,
airdrop, magsafe, live photos, private relay, universal control, object
capture, shortcuts, continuity & handoff, matter & thread, promotion,
heif/hevc, app tracking transparency, sign-in with apple, javascript in
hardware, animoji, passkey, apple pay later, tap to pay payments,
continuity camera, facetime handoff, cinematic mode, share extensions,
instant hotspot, bluetooth pair sync, lockscreen widgets, lidar and
roomplan.

many times, if they do appear on android, the implementation is not as
good, notably bluetooth le, which took several *years* until android
bluetooth le caught up to where apple had been.

> For example, my Samsung Note 9 had some
> features in Android 8 (Oreo) that did not appear in iOS until iOS 15.

only a few.

ios devices have had numerous features that the samsung note 9 does
not, or not implemented as well.

[Wade Garrett]

On 8/5/22 4:20 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <tcjtaq$1og8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Wade Garrett

> <wa...@cooler.net> wrote:
>
>> Certainly not happy paying the Apple Tax
>

> myth. similar android phones cost about the same.

>
>> but at least Tim does seem to
>> support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which has
>> given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.
>

> the 6s is 7 years old. that's a long time to keep a phone.

Since release, yes-- but she bought it new about three-plus years ago
from Tracfone.

[Wade Garrett]

On 8/5/22 6:15 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2022-08-05 20:07:54 +0000, Wade Garrett said:
>> On 8/5/22 3:24 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> On 2022-08-05, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-08-04 17:14, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My desktop was built in 2008 and it runs the key Windows 10 apps just
>>>>> fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is clearly that you iKooks don't realize this fundamental
>>>>> fact: *Apple kills off their operating systems sooner than anyone
>>>>> else.*
>>>>
>>>> Computers and smartphones are different devices, and computers haven't
>>>> changed nearly as much since 2008 as smartphones have.
>>>>
>>>> iOS 15 supports iPhones back to the iPhone 6s...
>>>>
>>>> ...which was released nearly 7 years ago.

>>>>
>>>> What is the oldest Android phone supported by the most current version
>>>> of Android, hmmm?
>>>

>>> One example: The HTC Dream was released in 2008 as the first device to
>>> use the Android operating system, and can't run anything past Android
>>> *1.6* (Donut): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream> For those
>>> keeping track, the current Android release is Android *12* which was
>>> released on October 4, 2021.
>>>
>>> The resident Apple-hating troll, Andy (Arlen), reeeeally wants you to
>>> ignore this FACT. ; )

>>
>> Gave up on Android phones several years back after several of the
>> fairly recent model nice ones I had couldn't be OS updated.
>>

>> Certainly not happy paying the Apple Tax but at least Tim does seem to

>> support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which
>> has given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.
>

> But does she even want, let alone need, the new OS?

>
> These days all operating systems are simply adding more and more
> useless/niche gimmickry that 99% of users don't ever use. They should
> instead be concentrting on fixing all the bugs (many that have existed
> for years) and making the OS more efficient. Anyone who actually wants
> any of the gimmickry can add it as an App Store extra.
>

Really, the only issue is continuing security and anti-malware updates.

Like you said, most of the new features are gimmickry. Even the ones
that aren't-- she neither uses nor cares about them...and I'm about the
same way. I have an SE-2 that meets my needs just fine.

[Wade Garrett]

Andie-boy, you remind me of a guy who hates his hometown team but can't
stay away from the ballpark where he regularly shows up to boo them and
yell invectives...

[nospam]

In article <tcmraq$pjb$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Wade Garrett

<wa...@cooler.net> wrote:

> >
> >> but at least Tim does seem to
> >> support them a decent while. Unfortunately my wife's 6s Plus-- which has
> >> given long and good service-- isn't eligible for the coming upgrade.
> >
> > the 6s is 7 years old. that's a long time to keep a phone.
>
> Since release, yes-- but she bought it new about three-plus years ago
> from Tracfone.

3-4 years is typically how long people keep their phones.

[Hank Rogers]

Yep. i Phones always work FOREVER.

I have one from august 2021, and by god it still works. A whole
year later (almost). That's outstanding for a phone that only costs
$400.

I expect apple will throttle it down next year. But by by god, its
a whole year old and still working OK. That's phenomenal! Thanks
Steve, wherever you are!

Cue Arlen ...

[Andy Burnelli]

Wade Garrett wrote:

> Andie-boy, you remind me of a guy who hates his hometown team but can't
> stay away from the ballpark where he regularly shows up to boo them and
> yell invectives...

Hi Wade,

Why can't you respond to the _facts_ instead of playing childish games?

The facts are that only Apple operating systems die on you such that you
can no longer update the default apps to the latest version on iOS.

That's just a fact.
It's a fact you _hate_ perhaps.

But the fact you hate that fact doesn't change the fact that fact is a fact.

*No other common consumer operating system _just dies_ like iOS does*
The adult question is why.

Are you an adult Wade?
Or a child?

Do you have an adult point of view Wade?
Or only that of a child?

Given you the benefit of the doubt, here's an adult question for you Wade:
*Why can't an older iOS update the default apps to the latest version*
*like all other common consumer operating systems habitually do?*
--
Please answer this adult question... like an adult would.

[Andy Burnelli]

sms wrote:

> On my older flagship Android devices there are no upgrades to the latest
> Android version, but they are still receiving security updates. My Note
> 9 shipped with Android 8 and received two updates and is now at Android
> 10, and won't get Android 11 or future new Android versions. But it gets
> security updates, the most recent one was pushed out in June 2022, so
> the device is still supported.

What most people, including Steve, on this newsgroup don't seem to
comprehend is that a phone includes lots more than simply a meaningless
version number.

For example, a phone contains default apps, such as the default web
browser, the default messenger app, the default mail user agent, the
default navigation app, the default calendar app, the default file manager
app, etc., all of which are updated on Android well after the meaningless
operating system version has expired.

In addition, a phone contains layers of core functionalities and services,
again which are updated nowadays (after about Android 10) essentially
forever, where those updates are completely independent of the carrier and
the manufacturer of the phone.

In addition to those critical operating system components outside the
meaningless version number, there are the security patches, which do
require (most of the time) the manufacturer to be involved.

Lastly, and definitely the least important, is the almost meaningless
Android version, which, let's be clear, provides almost zero value to the
user since almost everything (but not always everything!) that any one
version adds, the older versions can back port.

Having said that, _none_ of this is possible on iOS, so Steve is correct in
saying that comparing the operating system update mechanism between Android
and iOS requires a knowledge level that I don't think many people here
have.

Certainly not the iKooks, and it seems, from what Steve wrote, not him.

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> The only people comparing them are you and your troll buddies. The rest
> of us couldn't care less because we don't have unhealthy obsessions and
> irrational hatred of other operating systems or platform.

Actually you do care, Jolly Roger.
You care a lot.

You _hate_ that iOS uses a laughably primitive archaic update mechanism.

With every common consumer OS other than iOS, when the almost meaningless
operating system version number expires, nothing changes becuase the
devices maintains almost full functionality in terms of updates.

yet...

on iOS...

Unfortunately for you, Jolly Roger...

On iOS... Everything *just dies*.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

> very few features appear on android first. the vast majority of
> features appear on ios first and later on android, if ever.

How long did it take for iOS to include even a rudimentary app drawer?
What about default app selection nospam?
And, um, er., when is IOS gonna get the ability to change the launcher?

The list is almost endless what Android has and what iOS can't do,
but the list of what Android did first and iOS could barely catch up is
shorter.

[nospam]

In article <tcnpn0$gfi$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

>
> > very few features appear on android first. the vast majority of
> > features appear on ios first and later on android, if ever.
>
> How long did it take for iOS to include even a rudimentary app drawer?
> What about default app selection nospam?
> And, um, er., when is IOS gonna get the ability to change the launcher?

almost nobody cares about any of those.

meanwhile, you snipped the lengthy list of things ios had first, and
that list isn't even complete.

here it is again:

retina displays, wide gamut displays, 64 bit processors, bluetooth le,
face id, 3d touch, secure enclave, colorsync, truetone, arkit,
airprint, homekit, healthkit, uwb, airdrop, magsafe, live photos,
private relay, universal control, object capture, shortcuts, continuity
& handoff, matter & thread, promotion, heif/hevc, app tracking
transparency, sign-in with apple, javascript in hardware, animoji,
passkey, apple pay later, tap to pay payments, continuity camera,
facetime handoff, cinematic mode, share extensions, instant hotspot,
bluetooth pair sync, lockscreen widgets, lidar and roomplan.

i realize that you haven't any clue what most of those are, but that
doesn't negate the fact that ios is almost always first with new stuff.

> The list is almost endless what Android has and what iOS can't do,

nope. it's the other way around, which is why you snipped the list.

very few things appear on android first. very few.

[Wade Garrett]

Sure thing guy...you've reaffirmed my point. Give it a rest ;-)

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> How long did it take for iOS to include even a rudimentary app drawer?
>> What about default app selection nospam?
>> And, um, er., when is IOS gonna get the ability to change the launcher?
>
> almost nobody cares about any of those.

This is an ADULT CONVERSATION which most iKooks won't be able to fathom...

My point is that I agree that Apple innovated a _lot_ of smartphone
niceties that the Android market duly copied to provide to Android users.

However, I'm not like you who only takes Apple's propaganda or like Steve
who only shills for Verizon. I don't care if Apple comes up with a better
tool than Android as long as Android can copy that tool (which the market
will do for the Android users if it's a useful thing & not just a gimmick).

On the other hand, a _lot_ of functionality was pioneered by Android, which
is why I mentioned the app drawer, which, if you claim "nobody cares" then
that's another reason why I know you have a low IQ because people do care.

But for you to claim that "nobody cares" about setting app defaults is to
simply prove you don't own the adult cognitive skills to recognize they do
care. They care very much. Which is why Apple finally relented and copied
Android's lead (albeit not very inclusively) in allow app default settings.

> meanwhile, you snipped the lengthy list of things ios had first, and
> that list isn't even complete.

Look nospam, i.f you're going to have a conversation here, act like an adult.
Again, I'm going to speak to you as if you own adult comprehensive skills.

Nobody who is an adult disputes the fact that Apple came up with a _lot_ of
nice features for the mobile phone audience that the Android market copied.

Certainly I won't dispute that fact because only a fool disputes facts.

A classic example of what Steve Jobs came up with is the fundamental
interface we all use that Android copied and then allowed to be improved
myriad ways (with the result that there are myriad launchers out there).

Another example given Apple (admittedly falsely) markets itself as "privacy
conscious" of where Android shamelessly copied Apple was in the privacy
controls and in the privacy indicators that Android recently added.

Most of the examples you gave are bullshit (or more accurately, trademarked
marketed silly gimmicks); but some of the examples you provided were fair.

Some were dead wrong (e.g., Apple Pay), but we've discussed this ad
infinitum, so I didn't go down that rathole with you as you don't own the
mental capacity to understand the history of electronic payment systems
(nor do I care about them myself anyway so it wouldn't be worth my while).

What you did is what you low-IQ no-education iKooks _always_ do, which was
you brainlessly cut and pasted off the Internet a bullshit list (e.g.,
"sign-in with apple"... WTF?) that had no meaning whatsoever, even to you.

You actually think if we see a long list of trademark bullshit that we'll
be duly "impressed" at all the great bullshit gimmicks Apple decided to
name spending more researching the name than R&D creating the product.

In that long list of bullshit, you add silly childish things (e.g.,
"animoji") that show you have no concept of the difference between a mere
marketing gimmick for kids versus actual functionalities for adults.

> many times, if they do appear on android, the implementation is not as
> good, notably bluetooth le, which took several *years* until android
> bluetooth le caught up to where apple had been.

This is an ADULT conversation...

While this belated copying of Apple by the Android market may be true in
some cases that Android's copy of Apple features isn't "as good" as the
actual Apple feature (e.g., "RCS"), the opposite is also true (e.g., Apple
copying of app drawers" and "app defaults" is vastly substandard to
Android's many implementations).

Suffice to say the market dynamics determine the functionality.

That's just a fact.

Unfortunately, in overall summary, the creative market for Android is vast
compared to the creative market for iOS in that Apple _restricts_ what the
market can supply.

Apple severely cripples that supply market in fundamental ways:
1. Apple vastly restricts the APIs available to the app developers
(e.g., it's impossible to get a torrent app on the app store)
2. Apple vastly restricts some functionality to only Apple solutions
(e.g., the default messenger app must be the Apple messenger app)
1. Apple restricts technology innovation (e.g., webkit requirements)
(e.g., the Tor Browser functionality is impossible on iOS)

In summary, I realize this conversation contained far too many adult
concepts for you to comprehend - but the point is that Apple products will
_always_ have _lesser_ functionality than open market products simply
because it's the MARKET who provides the functionality and yet, Apple
vastly restricts what that open market is able to provide.

They don't call it the walled garden for no reason.
It's far more like a walled institutional prison cell if you ask me.

Yet you iKooks _love_ being restricted and that's just fine.
Just stop saying that it's not what it is, that's all I ask of you.

[Jolly Roger]

The level of unhappiness and hatred to cause this behavior must truly be
hellish. And he does this to himself *willingly*. His existence is just
pathetic.

[Andy Burnelli]

Wade Garrett wrote:

> Sure thing guy...you've reaffirmed my point. Give it a rest ;-)

Notice the fact you can't respond to a fact like an adult should.
You _hate_ that the primitive iOS monolith lacks support longevity.
*iOS just die*

That's just a fact.

Your belief system, however, isn't based on any actual facts.

Your entire belief system is based purely on bullshit Apple marketing.

Much like flat earthers are wont to do, in order to maintain your
completely imaginary belief system, you respond with childish retorts.

Yet the fact remains a fact when you understand what operating systems are.
a. All modern operating common consumer operating systems update in layers.
b. Except the laughably primitive stone-age iOS monolith.

*That fact alone is why _iOS support dies sooner_ than all the others do*

[Andy Burnelli]

Jolly Roger wrote:

> The level of unhappiness and hatred to cause this behavior must truly be
> hellish. And he does this to himself *willingly*. His existence is just
> pathetic.

And yet none of you iKooks has any adult response to the facts I presented.

*No other modern operating system dies sooner than does iOS.*

That's just a fact.

The fact is due to the primitive stone-age monolithic iOS design...
*iOS just dies*

You _hate_ that fact.
But the fact you hate facts doesn't change the fact it's still a fact.

[nospam]

In article <tcp1r8$1h1j$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Nobody who is an adult disputes the fact that Apple came up with a _lot_ of
> nice features for the mobile phone audience that the Android market copied.

except for you and the other resident troll, which means by your own
metric, you are both children.

> Certainly I won't dispute that fact because only a fool disputes facts.

then by your own metric, you are also a fool.

> Most of the examples you gave are bullshit (or more accurately, trademarked
> marketed silly gimmicks); but some of the examples you provided were fair.

all of them were fair.

> Some were dead wrong (e.g., Apple Pay),

apple pay was not mentioned, however, i'm glad you mentioned that,
because apple pay did predate google pay (previously android pay) by a
few years. thanks for mentioning something that i forgot to include.

what was mentioned was apply pay later, a new feature that's *part* of
apple pay and not currently available with google pay. it lets people
split a larger purchase into four interest-free payments over a six
week period, thus the name 'later'.

another feature in the list is tap to pay, which lets the iphone owner
*accept* contactless payments from others, and not just from other
iphones using apple pay, but also from android phones via google pay or
just tapping a contactless card. that means that just about anyone can
now accept credit/debit card payments, even a kid mowing lawns.

>
> What you did is what you low-IQ no-education iKooks _always_ do, which was
> you brainlessly cut and pasted off the Internet a bullshit list (e.g.,
> "sign-in with apple"... WTF?) that had no meaning whatsoever, even to you.

sign-in with apple is a way to sign in to web sites without the web
site knowing anything about you, since all they get is a unique and
cryptic apple email that forwards to your actual email, which is kept
hidden from said web site, something that a paranoid individual like
you would want.

it's a feature android does not have. it's that simple.

> You actually think if we see a long list of trademark bullshit that we'll
> be duly "impressed" at all the great bullshit gimmicks Apple decided to
> name spending more researching the name than R&D creating the product.

almost none of what was listed is trademarked, and that's irrelevant
anyway.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Nobody who is an adult disputes the fact that Apple came up with a _lot_ of
>> nice features for the mobile phone audience that the Android market copied.
>
> except for you and the other resident troll, which means by your own
> metric, you are both children.

Only a fool disputes facts.

I never dispute facts, nospam, except then they aren't facts, e.g., when
Steve incessantly shilled for Verizon using calculated FCC coverage maps
based on what the carriers provide and which didn't show _any_ 5G signal.

Steve claimed those maps showed what they did not show.
So I (successfully & correctly) disputed what Steve "claimed" was a fact.

Either Steve knew that fact, or Steve didn't know that fact.
Either say, it showed Steve lacked adult comprehensive skills.

Rest assured, I do not lack basic adult comprehensive skills, nospam.
Which means that I see right through almost every 'fact' you claim.

>> Certainly I won't dispute that fact because only a fool disputes facts.
>
> then by your own metric, you are also a fool.

In this thread nospam, it's _you_ who trolled the thread by claiming
imaginary functionality for iOS that either you knew does NOT exist, or,
that you "think" exists, either way it shows lack of adult comprehensive
skills.

The fact is Steve was _correct_ when he said iOS can't do the mock location
the way Android does it - using the phone and the phone alone.

Given you disputed that fact without providing a single credible fact to
back up your (fabricated) claims, it's _you_ who is trolling this group.

>
>> Most of the examples you gave are bullshit (or more accurately, trademarked
>> marketed silly gimmicks); but some of the examples you provided were fair.
>
> all of them were fair.

You always play this game nospam.
You think everyone owns the same lack of adult comprehensive skills as you.

Stop it.

You found on the net some bullshit marketing list of bullshit from Apple
and you cut and pasted that bullshit list thinking it would "impress" us.

Wow. Oh wow. Oh my gawd! Apple can create marketing trademarks. Gee! Wow.
Apple trademarks things _decades_ after others pioneered them, nospam.

The fact Apple likely spends far more in trademark research than actual R&D
of the products is an indicator that Apple also feels its users are stupid.

But I'm not stupid nospam.
You are stupid if you think I am.

Stop it with the bullshit cut and paste of meaningless bullshit assuming
I'll be duly impressed with a list of bullshit Apple trademarks. I'm not.

Pick _one_ important item that I'd care about which you think Apple
pioneered that the _current_ Android didn't copy as well as the _current_
Apple implementation, and I'll check it out.

But stop it with the bullshit pasting of a list of bullshit trademarks that
even you don't know what they all stand for (since most are bullshit).

>> Some were dead wrong (e.g., Apple Pay),
>
> apple pay was not mentioned,
> however, i'm glad you mentioned that,
> because apple pay did predate google pay (previously android pay) by a
> few years. thanks for mentioning something that i forgot to include.

Bullshit. Android had electronic payment well before Apple did, but I
really don't care as we've been down that rathole many times and you don't
seem to own any adult comprehensive skills to even remember that fact.

Just name _one_ important item that I'd care about that you think Apple
pioneered that either Android does NOT have or that you think the Android
implementation is substandard.

The reason I have to care is that I'm not going to waste my time on your
silly claims that Apple emoji matter because that's a bullshit item.

> what was mentioned was apply pay later, a new feature that's *part* of
> apple pay and not currently available with google pay. it lets people
> split a larger purchase into four interest-free payments over a six
> week period, thus the name 'later'.

Android has electronic payment. Apple has electronic payment.
Android is better in some ways. Apple is better in some ways.

The fact is both have electronic payment so for your entire argument to be
based on that means you have no argument, nospam.

Stop basing your entire argument on bullshit.
That works on dumbshits like the rest of you iKooks.

But it doesn't work on intelligent people.

Name one important functionality that you feel I would care about (because
I'm not wasting my time on the stone-age dysfunctional webkit for example),
that you feel iOS has that Android does not, and I'll take a look at it.

Can you do something like that?
It's what an _adult_ would do.

> another feature in the list is tap to pay, which lets the iphone owner
> *accept* contactless payments from others, and not just from other
> iphones using apple pay, but also from android phones via google pay or
> just tapping a contactless card. that means that just about anyone can
> now accept credit/debit card payments, even a kid mowing lawns.

Again, your entire argument is based on Apple's marketing bullshit.
Stop it.

*Base your argument on facts like an adult should.*

Name a single app functionality that you claim is on iOS that you claim is
not on Android that I will care about (since I'm not wasting my time on
privacy destroying marketing gimmicks like the ones you seem to favor).

Name just one.

>> What you did is what you low-IQ no-education iKooks _always_ do, which was
>> you brainlessly cut and pasted off the Internet a bullshit list (e.g.,
>> "sign-in with apple"... WTF?) that had no meaning whatsoever, even to you.
>
> sign-in with apple is a way to sign in to web sites without the web
> site knowing anything about you, since all they get is a unique and
> cryptic apple email that forwards to your actual email, which is kept
> hidden from said web site, something that a paranoid individual like
> you would want.
>
> it's a feature android does not have. it's that simple.

If you think that I care about that bullshit Apple marketing gimmick, you
don't own adult comprehensive skills nospam. First off, if it requires 2FA,
you don't seem to own the adult comprehensive skills to know that Apple
refuses to allow you to _ever_ turn 2FA off once you set it up (after the
short grace period expires).

Interestingly the judge threw out the court case against Apple for that
because of the "caveat emptor" tenet of law which says, essentially, if
you're so stupid that you click on the Apple "OK" button to agree to those
Draconian terms, then the law isn't going to protect you from your own
stupidity.

Pick something that isn't something only fools do, nospam.

>> You actually think if we see a long list of trademark bullshit that we'll
>> be duly "impressed" at all the great bullshit gimmicks Apple decided to
>> name spending more researching the name than R&D creating the product.
>
> almost none of what was listed is trademarked,

Apple is the master of marketing gimmicks, nospam.
I understand that stupid people fall for those marketing gimmicks.

But let's keep this conversation at the adult level.
So cut out the stupid marketing tricks, willya'.

> and that's irrelevant anyway.

First off, that's wrong, but I don't care as I want to move forward on your
claim that there is even one useful iOS app functionality that I'd care
about (because I don't care about fancy childish bullshit like animoji
gimmicks) that Apple has on the iPhone that isn't on Android.

Certainly there is plenty of useful Android app functionality (such as what
Steve wrote about in the mock GPS location thread) which isn't on iOS...

But is there _anything_ on iOS that's useful to me that isn't on Android?

Maybe. Maybe not.
You claim there is.

OK.
*Name just one.*
--
HINT: It's what an adult would do.

[Your Name]

> On 8/7/22 3:16 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Wade Garrett wrote:
>>>
>>> Andie-boy, you remind me of a guy who hates his hometown team but can't
>>> stay away from the ballpark where he regularly shows up to boo them and
>>> yell invectives...
>>
>> Hi Wade,
>>
>> Why can't you respond to the _facts_ instead of playing childish games?
>>
>> The facts are that only Apple operating systems die on you such that you
>> can no longer update the default apps to the latest version on iOS.

<snip>

As usual, the moronic troll, having been proven wrong, now changes his
fictional nonsense to yet more brainless crap.

Try running the latest version of Microsoft's Edge web browser on
Windows 3.0 computer. Try running the latest version of whatever crappy
Android web browser on an Android 1.0 mobile device.

[nospam]

In article <tcpbd9$1445$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Try running the latest version of Microsoft's Edge web browser on
> Windows 3.0 computer.

no need to go back that far. it doesn't work on early win10 versions.

[nospam]

In article <tcp9v1$l2b$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Only a fool disputes facts.

why do you keep calling yourself a fool?

> But I'm not stupid nospam.

the evidence shows otherwise.

>
> >> Some were dead wrong (e.g., Apple Pay),
> >
> > apple pay was not mentioned,
> > however, i'm glad you mentioned that,
> > because apple pay did predate google pay (previously android pay) by a
> > few years. thanks for mentioning something that i forgot to include.
>
> Bullshit. Android had electronic payment well before Apple did,

except what google had required merchants to have a custom reader,
which almost none did, plus all payments went through google using a
single registered card, which mean google tracked everything you bought
and purchases showed up as from google and not the actual store. that
meant it's both hard to track things on your statement and credit cards
didn't see the categories, so the user loses out on any rewards. not
only was it very rare, but it didn't work well.

apple pay is built upon industry standard emv instead of a proprietary
system, which means the user can use it *anywhere* contactless cards
are accepted, using any or all of their existing cards. purchases show
up on the credit card statement as they normally would and apple has no
idea what anyone bought.

google immediately started working on android pay, which was released
about two years later, later renamed to google pay.

> Android has electronic payment. Apple has electronic payment.
> Android is better in some ways. Apple is better in some ways.

goalpost movement.

>
> > another feature in the list is tap to pay, which lets the iphone owner
> > *accept* contactless payments from others, and not just from other
> > iphones using apple pay, but also from android phones via google pay or
> > just tapping a contactless card. that means that just about anyone can
> > now accept credit/debit card payments, even a kid mowing lawns.
>
> Again, your entire argument is based on Apple's marketing bullshit.

it's not marketing bullshit. tap to pay is an extremely useful feature,
one that you clearly don't understand.

> First off, if it requires 2FA,
> you don't seem to own the adult comprehensive skills to know that Apple
> refuses to allow you to _ever_ turn 2FA off once you set it up (after the
> short grace period expires).

good thing google doesn't do that.

oh wait...

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/google-wants-every-account-to-u
se-2fa-starts-auto-enrolling-users/>
Google announced earlier this year that it is planning to forcefully
transition as many of its users as possible to two-factor
authentication (2FA). The company elaborated further in October,
saying it was planning to auto-enroll 150 million Google accounts
in 2FA by the end of the year.
...
Google's support page details the auto-enrollment process. The
company says accounts that have been flagged for 2FA will get an
email or notification about seven days before the requirement is
enforced.

note that google is *forcefully* *transitioning* users.

[Andy Burnelli]

Your Name wrote:

> As usual, the moronic troll, having been proven wrong, now changes his
> fictional nonsense to yet more brainless crap.

I find it interesting that "Your Name" said that Windows costs money when
you upgrade, and multiple people (some of whom are his fellow iKooks) had
to explain to him that his belief system was based on exactly zero facts.

The fact was that the _entire_ belief system of Your Name... was imaginary.

Then... after _that_ event occurred in this very thread... he calls
everyone else... a "moronic troll". You have to see the humor in that.

HINT: He's so stupid that he doesn't even realize how stupid he really is.

> Try running the latest version of Microsoft's Edge web browser on
> Windows 3.0 computer. Try running the latest version of whatever crappy
> Android web browser on an Android 1.0 mobile device.

Assuming anyone on this child-like Apple newsgroup is an adult, here is a
"fair fight" factual comparison we can make that will provide some facts.


a. Tell us what the oldest iOS is that the newest Safari loads & works on.
b. I will look up the oldest Android that the newest Chrome does the same.

That's an objective starting point for an _adult_ discussion, is it not?
--
This comparison was requested moments ago in this adult factual thread.
*Why do Apple operating systems *just die* while all modern operating systems last, essentially, almost forever?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/T_-7sEITUKs>

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Try running the latest version of Microsoft's Edge web browser on
>> Windows 3.0 computer.
>
> no need to go back that far. it doesn't work on early win10 versions.

As someone already said in this thread, it might not be fair to compare
desktops to mobile devices, because desktops are so mature that Windows 10
will still work just fine on desktops built before iOS even existed.

Given Widnows 10 is the most common version out there today, a more fair
comparison would probably be to compare what Windows 10 works on versus
what the most common current Mac OS works on.

But this thread is more about mobile devices, not the fact that Windows
works on desktops built before the first release of iOS ever shipped.

What would be more appropriate is to compare mobile platforms instead.

Here's a fair comparison, is it not?

[nospam]

In article <tcpe4s$1vpt$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Windows 10
> will still work just fine on desktops built before iOS even existed.

no it doesn't. at best it's very, very slow and not the latest version
either.

15 year old pcs no longer get win10 updates, stopping around 1903 or so
(give or take), which has been eol'ed and is no longer supported by
microsoft.

<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/windows-10-190
3-end-of-servicing>
Windows 10, version 1903 will reach the end of service on December 8,
2020.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Again, your entire argument is based on Apple's marketing bullshit.
>
> it's not marketing bullshit. tap to pay is an extremely useful feature,
> one that you clearly don't understand.

You don't seem to own the cognitive skills to comprehend that you can
cherry pick _any_ functionality on the planet, and then compare two
different makers of that functionality, and then argue one is better than
the other using your own personal comparitive assessment weights.

It's like comparing a Bimmer to a Mercedes.
There will _always_ be differences you may care about.

Say one doesn't come in red for example - and you happen to like red.
Then you'll claim the functionality is better.

Just like iPhone colors are a desperate attempt at differentiation.

But this is a digression which you foisted upon us because you _hate_ the
fact that iOS app updates die far sooner than apps on any other platform

>> First off, if it requires 2FA,
>> you don't seem to own the adult comprehensive skills to know that Apple
>> refuses to allow you to _ever_ turn 2FA off once you set it up (after the
>> short grace period expires).
>
> good thing google doesn't do that.

This is an _adult_ conversation...
The problem with iKooks is you think everyone is as gullible as you are.

Google is eager to follow Apple's anti-privacy lead so I wouldn't doubt
that Google would hope its customer base is as gullible as Apple's base is.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YqWvzF4W/fairemail02.jpg> Android OTP options

As you may be well aware, I've been following the recent May 30th 2022
attempt by Google to trade our privacy for security - where only very
recently the free ad free GSF free privacy based apps finally recovered
from Google's attack on privacy with the implementation of web OAUth.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhHFRK3L/fairemail03.jpg> web-OAuth example

Until then, I wasn't able to privately read Google gmail on Android from
May 30th, 2022, to about July 25th, 2022 (but I can now - which is what
matters - but which took work by Marcel & Christian to update web-OAuth).

> note that google is *forcefully* *transitioning* users.

As you may be aware from the adult OS newsgroups, I was in frequent contact
with the developer of Fair Email and that of K-9 Mail (now part of
Thunderbird's suite of tools) where Marcel & Christian worked together to
overcome Google's not-so-hidden attempt at forcing users into 2FA/2SV.

While Google certainly pulled an anti-privacy trick out of Apple's own
2SV/2FA playbook, as far as I'm aware, web-OAUth overcomes that attempt.

At this point, I'm unaware of any "successful" attempt at forcing typical
privacy-conscious Android google email server users into the hated 2FA/2SV.

However, if you know more than I do about Google "forcing" 2FA/2SV on
people like me who simply want to read mail on Google servers, please
post facts - not bullshit.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jz0TvyKQ/fairemail01.jpg> FairEmail auth options

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Windows 10
>> will still work just fine on desktops built before iOS even existed.
>
> no it doesn't. at best it's very, very slow and not the latest version
> either.

I noticed you are afraid of the question nospam, about what the oldest
hardware is that the current macOS works on... versus that of Windows 10.

Normally that means you _hate_ what the answer is to that question, nospam.

> 15 year old pcs no longer get win10 updates, stopping around 1903 or so
> (give or take), which has been eol'ed and is no longer supported by
> microsoft.

Again, you bullshit nospam.

Again you bullshit because you _hate_ all facts showing how poorly iOS and
the macOS are updated compared to Android and Windows (and/or Linux).

The fact remains a fact, nospam, whether or not you _hate_ that fact.
*No common operating system dies _sooner_ than does your beloved iOS*

> <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/announcements/windows-10-190
> 3-end-of-servicing>
> Windows 10, version 1903 will reach the end of service on December 8,
> 2020.

And yet, my ancient circa 2009 desktop (which likely started as Windows 7)
is still updated frequently by Microsoft as far as I can tell.

But more importantly than the fact Windows support lasts far longer than
does macOS support, *iOS support is the _shortest_ of all common OSs*.

*No common consumer operating system has _shorter_ support than does iOS*

That simple fact is what you _hate_ nospam.
And yet, you have no _adult_ response to that simple fact.

In fact, most of the iKooks already tried to lie their way around that fact
by claiming that they could update Safari outside the iOS update cycle.

And yet that is a lie.

The iKooks either know it's a lie, or the iKooks don't.
a. If they lied, then that shows how much they _hate_ the facts, and,
b. If they didn't purposefully lie, then they're incredibly ignorant.

Pick one.

[*Hemidactylus*]

I think this has gotten far afield from the OP which was narrowly about how
long after iOS 16 is released will phones stuck with iOS 15 be supported
with updates. Some might not want the iPhone 13 yet not want to wait
through the buzz over iPhone 14 dying down after its release.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Server hiccups.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Yup!