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Apple's Woes - Not Its Gadgets Overshadow Tech's Big Trade Show
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Leroy N. Soetoro
Jan 6, 2019, 1:37:38 PM1/6/19
to
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
show.
Typically, Apple casts a shadow over CES due to anticipation for the
iPhone maker’s next product, competitors racing to beat them to the market
and hundreds of accessory makers looking to make a buck on the iPhone
maker’s platform. This year, Apple’s reduced revenue forecast and whether
the flagging Chinese economy will hamper other big electronics companies
will vie for attendees’ attention.
The consumer electronics trade show is partly known for being divorced
from the real world. It’s a place where companies show off early
prototypes that may never turn into commercial products. While some attend
CES to see game-changing advances like the original Xbox in 2001, the Palm
Pre phone in 2009, and 3-D and 4K TVs in more recent years, the real noise
is made in backroom meetings among major companies and suppliers of the
potentially next big thing.
Many key suppliers are based in China and may have a harder time securing
deals this year, as trade tensions flare and companies in the U.S. seek to
avoid tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump’s administration or do
business with partners viewed as a national security threat.
“The health of the Chinese economy and the U.S. economy is an overhang for
the show,” said Gary Shapiro, the president and chief executive officer of
the Consumer Technology Association, which produces the annual trade show.
Still, he said, “there will be discussions with Chinese companies on the
buyer-and-seller relationship behind closed doors.” Some of the CTA’s
members with business in China have already adjusted and moved
manufacturing and sourcing out of the country, Shapiro added.
The CTA has organized a panel dedicated to tariffs and the show floor will
have a booth for U.S. attendees to contact the U.S. Trade Representative
and the White House and explain how tariffs have affected their
businesses.
Apple on Wednesday cut its revenue outlook for the first time in almost
two decades, citing weaker demand in China because of the country’s
slowing economy and rising trade tensions with the U.S. A big question is
how much of Apple’s problems can be blamed on China’s economy versus
Chinese consumers’ preference for home-grown brands. The falloff in demand
for iPhones is at least partly explained by its high price and the rise of
cheaper, more comparable rival devices in the world’s largest market. The
iPhone XS Max, the current top of the iPhone range, starts at 9,599 yuan
($1,400) in China. Flagship phones from Huawei Technologies Co. and Oppo
cost from 4,000 to 5,000 yuan, around half that of an iPhone.
“It’s going to be the elephant in the room at CES,” said Daniel Ives, an
analyst at Wedbush Securities. “This has been dark days for Apple and for
the tech industry. I think there’s a lot of questions in regards to the
smartphone industry going forward, especially with what Apple said about
with demand in China.”
Huawei supplanted Apple as the world’s No. 2 smartphone brand in 2018 and
remains the market leader in China, comprising 25 percent of smartphone
shipments in the third quarter of 2018, according to data from research
firm Canalys. Chinese smartphone makers Vivo, Oppo, and Xiaomi Corp. were
right behind Huawei, with Apple in fifth place for share of shipments.
Huawei in particular has become flashpoint in the U.S. trade dispute. The
U.S. has said the company poses a national security threat due to its
close ties to the Chinese government and that Huawei violated a trade
embargo against Iran. Canadian officials, acting at the behest of the
U.S., arrested Huawei’s CFO last month. The arrest contributed to Apple’s
brand damage in China, with some Chinese companies reportedly subsidizing
employees to buy Huawei devices. Huawei recently demoted and cut the pay
of two employees for tweeting from the company’s official account with an
iPhone.
“As Trump has locked horns with China, there are social media campaigns on
WeChat and Weibo asking people to boycott Apple’s products,” said Loup
Ventures Managing Director Gene Munster. “They can be powerful.”
At last year’s show, Huawei was set to reveal that it would bring a
flagship smartphone to U.S. carriers including AT&T Inc. But the deal
never happened. At the urging of the U.S. government, the carriers cut
ties with Huawei due to national security concerns, hurting the phone
maker’s ability to grow its business in the U.S.
Richard Yu, chief executive officer of Huawei’s consumer products
division, gave a keynote address at last year’s CES. He used some of his
speech to lambaste U.S. carriers for deciding not to sell Huawei’s latest
phones. This year, Huawei is an exhibitor at the conference and will be
showcasing its new tablet and laptop for the U.S. market.
Apple will just send employees to monitor upstarts and potential future
suppliers. Its main domestic rivals, Alphabet Inc.’s Google and Amazon.com
Inc. will be present at CES, however, with plenty of accessory makers
integrating their respective voice assistants. Microsoft Corp. will also
be on hand to discuss how hardware makers can implement their latest
software.
Chinese companies will attend the gathering in force. The CTA said it has
seen growth in the presence of large Chinese companies and the exhibit
area for Chinese companies represents a similar amount of square footage
space as last year, around 13 to 14 percent. There are more than 1,200
Chinese companies exhibiting at the show, and companies in attendance
include Alibaba Group Holding Ltd., Tencent Holdings Ltd., JD.com Inc.,
car manufacturer BYTON Ltd., TCL Corp., and Hisense Co., according to the
CES website.
The trade show also reflects the importance of 5G, or fifth-generation
wireless technology, in the worsening trade war. The coming faster
networks will be a topic of conversations and panels at the trade show,
with a slew of sessions dedicated to applications as both countries race
to become a leader in the technology. While China is poised to have a
strong variety of 5G devices on its networks across 2019, Apple won’t
release a 5G phone until 2020, Bloomberg News has reported.
Chetan Sharma, a consultant for the mobile industry who is scheduled to
moderate a CES panel on 5G, said the rollout is marching ahead despite
trade tensions. He said he’s heard “nervous chatter in the background”
about the trade war, but doesn’t expect to see any direct impact at CES.
“There’s a battle royale for 5G, and you can’t say 5G without Huawei in
the same sentence,” Ives said. “It’s become more important for U.S. and
Chinese executives to better understand the trends, dialogue,
opportunities and challenges going forward.”
— With assistance by Joshua Brustein
--
Donald J. Trump, 304 electoral votes to 227, defeated compulsive liar in
denial Hillary Rodham Clinton on December 19th, 2016. The clown car
parade of the democrat party ran out of gas and got run over by a Trump
truck.
Congratulations President Trump. Thank you for cleaning up the disaster
of the Obama presidency.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp.
ObamaCare is a total 100% failure and no lie that can be put forth by its
supporters can dispute that.
Obama jobs, the result of ObamaCare. 12-15 working hours a week at minimum
wage, no benefits and the primary revenue stream for ObamaCare. It can't
be funded with money people don't have, yet liberals lie about how great
it is.
Obama increased total debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight
years he was in office, and sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood queer
liberal democrat donors.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
show.
Typically, Apple casts a shadow over CES due to anticipation for the
iPhone maker’s next product, competitors racing to beat them to the market
and hundreds of accessory makers looking to make a buck on the iPhone
maker’s platform. This year, Apple’s reduced revenue forecast and whether
the flagging Chinese economy will hamper other big electronics companies
will vie for attendees’ attention.
The consumer electronics trade show is partly known for being divorced
from the real world. It’s a place where companies show off early
prototypes that may never turn into commercial products. While some attend
CES to see game-changing advances like the original Xbox in 2001, the Palm
Pre phone in 2009, and 3-D and 4K TVs in more recent years, the real noise
is made in backroom meetings among major companies and suppliers of the
potentially next big thing.
Many key suppliers are based in China and may have a harder time securing
deals this year, as trade tensions flare and companies in the U.S. seek to
avoid tariffs imposed by President Donald Trump’s administration or do
business with partners viewed as a national security threat.
“The health of the Chinese economy and the U.S. economy is an overhang for
the show,” said Gary Shapiro, the president and chief executive officer of
the Consumer Technology Association, which produces the annual trade show.
Still, he said, “there will be discussions with Chinese companies on the
buyer-and-seller relationship behind closed doors.” Some of the CTA’s
members with business in China have already adjusted and moved
manufacturing and sourcing out of the country, Shapiro added.
The CTA has organized a panel dedicated to tariffs and the show floor will
have a booth for U.S. attendees to contact the U.S. Trade Representative
and the White House and explain how tariffs have affected their
businesses.
Apple on Wednesday cut its revenue outlook for the first time in almost
two decades, citing weaker demand in China because of the country’s
slowing economy and rising trade tensions with the U.S. A big question is
how much of Apple’s problems can be blamed on China’s economy versus
Chinese consumers’ preference for home-grown brands. The falloff in demand
for iPhones is at least partly explained by its high price and the rise of
cheaper, more comparable rival devices in the world’s largest market. The
iPhone XS Max, the current top of the iPhone range, starts at 9,599 yuan
($1,400) in China. Flagship phones from Huawei Technologies Co. and Oppo
cost from 4,000 to 5,000 yuan, around half that of an iPhone.
“It’s going to be the elephant in the room at CES,” said Daniel Ives, an
analyst at Wedbush Securities. “This has been dark days for Apple and for
the tech industry. I think there’s a lot of questions in regards to the
smartphone industry going forward, especially with what Apple said about
with demand in China.”
Huawei supplanted Apple as the world’s No. 2 smartphone brand in 2018 and
remains the market leader in China, comprising 25 percent of smartphone
shipments in the third quarter of 2018, according to data from research
firm Canalys. Chinese smartphone makers Vivo, Oppo, and Xiaomi Corp. were
right behind Huawei, with Apple in fifth place for share of shipments.
Huawei in particular has become flashpoint in the U.S. trade dispute. The
U.S. has said the company poses a national security threat due to its
close ties to the Chinese government and that Huawei violated a trade
embargo against Iran. Canadian officials, acting at the behest of the
U.S., arrested Huawei’s CFO last month. The arrest contributed to Apple’s
brand damage in China, with some Chinese companies reportedly subsidizing
employees to buy Huawei devices. Huawei recently demoted and cut the pay
of two employees for tweeting from the company’s official account with an
iPhone.
“As Trump has locked horns with China, there are social media campaigns on
WeChat and Weibo asking people to boycott Apple’s products,” said Loup
Ventures Managing Director Gene Munster. “They can be powerful.”
At last year’s show, Huawei was set to reveal that it would bring a
flagship smartphone to U.S. carriers including AT&T Inc. But the deal
never happened. At the urging of the U.S. government, the carriers cut
ties with Huawei due to national security concerns, hurting the phone
maker’s ability to grow its business in the U.S.
Richard Yu, chief executive officer of Huawei’s consumer products
division, gave a keynote address at last year’s CES. He used some of his
speech to lambaste U.S. carriers for deciding not to sell Huawei’s latest
phones. This year, Huawei is an exhibitor at the conference and will be
showcasing its new tablet and laptop for the U.S. market.
Apple will just send employees to monitor upstarts and potential future
suppliers. Its main domestic rivals, Alphabet Inc.’s Google and Amazon.com
Inc. will be present at CES, however, with plenty of accessory makers
integrating their respective voice assistants. Microsoft Corp. will also
be on hand to discuss how hardware makers can implement their latest
software.
Chinese companies will attend the gathering in force. The CTA said it has
seen growth in the presence of large Chinese companies and the exhibit
area for Chinese companies represents a similar amount of square footage
space as last year, around 13 to 14 percent. There are more than 1,200
Chinese companies exhibiting at the show, and companies in attendance
include Alibaba Group Holding Ltd., Tencent Holdings Ltd., JD.com Inc.,
car manufacturer BYTON Ltd., TCL Corp., and Hisense Co., according to the
CES website.
The trade show also reflects the importance of 5G, or fifth-generation
wireless technology, in the worsening trade war. The coming faster
networks will be a topic of conversations and panels at the trade show,
with a slew of sessions dedicated to applications as both countries race
to become a leader in the technology. While China is poised to have a
strong variety of 5G devices on its networks across 2019, Apple won’t
release a 5G phone until 2020, Bloomberg News has reported.
Chetan Sharma, a consultant for the mobile industry who is scheduled to
moderate a CES panel on 5G, said the rollout is marching ahead despite
trade tensions. He said he’s heard “nervous chatter in the background”
about the trade war, but doesn’t expect to see any direct impact at CES.
“There’s a battle royale for 5G, and you can’t say 5G without Huawei in
the same sentence,” Ives said. “It’s become more important for U.S. and
Chinese executives to better understand the trends, dialogue,
opportunities and challenges going forward.”
— With assistance by Joshua Brustein
--
Donald J. Trump, 304 electoral votes to 227, defeated compulsive liar in
denial Hillary Rodham Clinton on December 19th, 2016. The clown car
parade of the democrat party ran out of gas and got run over by a Trump
truck.
Congratulations President Trump. Thank you for cleaning up the disaster
of the Obama presidency.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp.
ObamaCare is a total 100% failure and no lie that can be put forth by its
supporters can dispute that.
Obama jobs, the result of ObamaCare. 12-15 working hours a week at minimum
wage, no benefits and the primary revenue stream for ObamaCare. It can't
be funded with money people don't have, yet liberals lie about how great
it is.
Obama increased total debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight
years he was in office, and sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood queer
liberal democrat donors.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
arlen holder
Jan 6, 2019, 1:51:53 PM1/6/19
to
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:37:37 +0000 (UTC), Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> It’s going to be the elephant in the room at CES
I've been reading everything I can to figure out why Apple misguided.
> It’s going to be the elephant in the room at CES
I don't know the answer, but I think the answer may be simple.
o They made an entire line of expensive severely flawed phones
o They followed up with even more expensive barely better phones
To me, the answer is simple - but the answer involves two steps:
o Apple screwed their loyal customer with overpriced $1000 phones; then,
o Apple is trying to bleed the customer dry with overpriced $1500 phones
IMHO... Those two events, back to back, do not a sustainable market make.
I think it's _that_ simple.
Time will tell if Apple's two-part mistake was indeed _that_ simple.
I think it may very well be _that_ simple.
Do you _really_ think it's China's fault?
JF Mezei
Jan 6, 2019, 2:20:01 PM1/6/19
to
On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>
> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
> starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
> country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
> show.
Ahh, the art of misdirection. Sales warning, doom and gloom and subtle
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>
> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
> starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
> country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
> show.
attempt to blame Apple's lack of presence at CES on it being so close
to bankruptcy that it can't afford to go to CES... Right ?
When was the last time Apple attended CES ?
And yes, it may be significant that Apple has a cold and its earnings
are lower than predicted. A cold isn't terminal cancer.
Apple will adapt to new world econoky and the fact that smartphones are
now mature products, decreasing the drive to upgrade frequently. Note
how Apple has been pushing "services" for last couple of years, a nudge
to acknolwedge they saw this moment coming.
What is a shame is that Apple has been absolutely amazing with its chip
improvements year after year, on time. But if people stop upgrading
every year, it is still worth it for Apple to drive its chip designers
to come up with brand new chip every year?
Could Apple survive with phones being released every 2 years? Each
iteration might have more difference with previous and make it more
appealing to upgrade.
And while Apple takes the limelight, expect Samsung and others to feel
the same pain at the high end. The big question is whether the low end
can be profitable if this is where the market is at now.
Lewis
Jan 6, 2019, 3:10:08 PM1/6/19
to
In message <AxsYD.427991$_35.1...@fx46.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
>> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>>
>> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
Same as every year. Apple does not attend CES. I do not think they have
> On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
>> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>>
>> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
ever attended CES, and certainly not in the last 20 years.
> And yes, it may be significant that Apple has a cold and its earnings
> are lower than predicted. A cold isn't terminal cancer.
> And while Apple takes the limelight, expect Samsung and others to feel
> the same pain at the high end. The big question is whether the low end
> can be profitable if this is where the market is at now.
--
Seeing, contrary to popular wisdom, isn't believing. It's where belief
stops, because it isn't needed any more. --Pyramids
Joerg Lorenz
Jan 6, 2019, 4:33:33 PM1/6/19
to
Am 06.01.19 um 20:20 schrieb JF Mezei:
> On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
>> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>>
>> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
>> starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
>> country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
>> show.
>
> Ahh, the art of misdirection. Sales warning, doom and gloom and subtle
> attempt to blame Apple's lack of presence at CES on it being so close
> to bankruptcy that it can't afford to go to CES... Right ?
Why are you feeding this russian Troll?
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
>> gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
>>
>> Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
>> starting Sunday in Las Vegas, but its recent sales warning -- and the
>> country it blamed for the shortfall -- will undoubtedly be the talk of the
>> show.
>
> Ahh, the art of misdirection. Sales warning, doom and gloom and subtle
> attempt to blame Apple's lack of presence at CES on it being so close
> to bankruptcy that it can't afford to go to CES... Right ?
Savageduck
Jan 6, 2019, 5:13:41 PM1/6/19
to
On Jan 6, 2019, Lewis wrote
(in article <slrnq34o4v....@jaka.local>):
> In message<AxsYD.427991$_35.1...@fx46.iad> JF
> Mezei<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> > > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
> > > gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
> > >
> > > Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
>
> Same as every year. Apple does not attend CES. I do not think they have
> ever attended CES, and certainly not in the last 20 years.
Apple attended CES in 1985 when I made my first, and only visit to CES. At
some point since then, as far as I can recall (I don’t know exactly when)
they stopped so they could control their own events, first in venues in San
Francisco such as the Moscone Center, and now in their Apple Park HQ in
Cupertino where they control every aspect of the presentation, without the
Vegas mob. Why on earth would they play anywhere else?
--
Regards,
Savageduck
(in article <slrnq34o4v....@jaka.local>):
> In message<AxsYD.427991$_35.1...@fx46.iad> JF
> Mezei<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > On 2019-01-06 13:37, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> > > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-05/apple-s-woes-not-its-
> > > gadgets-overshadow-tech-s-trade-show
> > >
> > > Apple Inc. won’t be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
>
> Same as every year. Apple does not attend CES. I do not think they have
> ever attended CES, and certainly not in the last 20 years.
some point since then, as far as I can recall (I don’t know exactly when)
they stopped so they could control their own events, first in venues in San
Francisco such as the Moscone Center, and now in their Apple Park HQ in
Cupertino where they control every aspect of the presentation, without the
Vegas mob. Why on earth would they play anywhere else?
--
Regards,
Savageduck
nospam
Jan 6, 2019, 5:35:06 PM1/6/19
to
In article <0001HW.21E2B50F03...@news.giganews.com>,
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > > > Apple Inc. wonšt be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> > > > Apple Inc. wonšt be placing a giant booth at the big CES tech trade show
> >
> > Same as every year. Apple does not attend CES. I do not think they have
> > ever attended CES, and certainly not in the last 20 years.
>
> Apple attended CES in 1985 when I made my first, and only visit to CES. At
> some point since then, as far as I can recall (I donšt know exactly when)
> > Same as every year. Apple does not attend CES. I do not think they have
> > ever attended CES, and certainly not in the last 20 years.
>
> Apple attended CES in 1985 when I made my first, and only visit to CES. At
> they stopped so they could control their own events, first in venues in San
> Francisco such as the Moscone Center, and now in their Apple Park HQ in
> Cupertino where they control every aspect of the presentation, without the
> Vegas mob. Why on earth would they play anywhere else?
apple attended macworld expo through 2009, which was not their event.
> Francisco such as the Moscone Center, and now in their Apple Park HQ in
> Cupertino where they control every aspect of the presentation, without the
> Vegas mob. Why on earth would they play anywhere else?
B...@onramp.net
Jan 6, 2019, 5:35:59 PM1/6/19
to
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019 18:37:37 +0000 (UTC), "Leroy N. Soetoro"
<leroys...@hrc-rejected.com> wrote:
What a load of crap. Almost all lies.
Savageduck
Jan 6, 2019, 6:12:16 PM1/6/19
to
On Jan 6, 2019, B...@Onramp.net wrote
(in article<th053ehtkjgoucbtb...@4ax.com>):
<<Crap content flushed>>
Note, whack-job crossposts eliminated.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
(in article<th053ehtkjgoucbtb...@4ax.com>):
<<Crap content flushed>>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> What a load of crap. Almost all lies.
...and you had to compound the load by reposting it in full.
> -----------------------------------------
> What a load of crap. Almost all lies.
Note, whack-job crossposts eliminated.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
B...@onramp.net
Jan 6, 2019, 6:53:13 PM1/6/19
to
On Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:12:11 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 2019, B...@Onramp.net wrote
>(in article<th053ehtkjgoucbtb...@4ax.com>):
>
><<Crap content flushed>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> What a load of crap. Almost all lies.
>
>...and you had to compound the load by reposting it in full.
Only the sig and I meant to show all of it.
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 2019, B...@Onramp.net wrote
>(in article<th053ehtkjgoucbtb...@4ax.com>):
>
><<Crap content flushed>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> What a load of crap. Almost all lies.
>
>...and you had to compound the load by reposting it in full.
>
>Note, whack-job crossposts eliminated.
I realized that I screwed up on that as soon as I pressed Send. Sorry
Lloyd Parsons
Jan 7, 2019, 7:55:11 AM1/7/19
to
it seems to me the midline products could be both profitable and sell
well. Take the Moto Z3 series as an example, about 1/2 the price of a
current flagship with about 80% or more of the performance and
capability. The question is whether that is a profitable product for
Motorola. Other examples are out there.
Lewis
Jan 7, 2019, 9:13:46 AM1/7/19
to
In message <g9h0he...@mid.individual.net> Lloyd Parsons <em...@domain.com> wrote:
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet. But
> it seems to me the midline products could be both profitable and sell
> well.
And you base this on what? Are any of the midline producers making money
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet. But
> it seems to me the midline products could be both profitable and sell
> well.
(No, they're not).
> Take the Moto Z3 series as an example, about 1/2 the price of a
> current flagship with about 80% or more of the performance and
> capability. The question is whether that is a profitable product for
> Motorola. Other examples are out there.
money on phones are making money on top end phones.
JF Mezei
Jan 7, 2019, 3:46:51 PM1/7/19
to
On 2019-01-07 07:55, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet.
But you also need to look at the ecosystem as a whole. Apple makes money
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet.
from App Store, Apple Music/Itunes and the other services they are
developping.
So if selling a phone at little/no profit gets you additional profit
from services, then it makes sense to increase the installed base even
at the low end.
Lewis
Jan 7, 2019, 6:10:52 PM1/7/19
to
But I am sure you know best.
--
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
sms
Jan 7, 2019, 9:55:43 PM1/7/19
to
On 1/7/2019 4:55 AM, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet. But it
> seems to me the midline products could be both profitable and sell
> well. Take the Moto Z3 series as an example, about 1/2 the price of a
> current flagship with about 80% or more of the performance and
> capability. The question is whether that is a profitable product for
> Motorola. Other examples are out there.
Remember, the definition of profit varies widely. A Chinese phone maker
> I doubt the low end will ever be profitable since it hasn't yet. But it
> seems to me the midline products could be both profitable and sell
> well. Take the Moto Z3 series as an example, about 1/2 the price of a
> current flagship with about 80% or more of the performance and
> capability. The question is whether that is a profitable product for
> Motorola. Other examples are out there.
that is content with 5% margins and thrilled at 10% margins is very
different than a U.S. company that needs 30-40% margins.
Compare mid-line phones like the Lenovo/Moto X4 and the iPhone 7 or 8. I
don't know the profit on the X4 but it's definitely a mid-range phone
like the iPhone 7 and 8 (see
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HI-ejgQF5-OfJdS7yj-YL_we-v1PiMG0_JM8nGAlN38)
but the price difference is huge. Is Lenovo making money selling a
$180-225 phone? Probably, but the margins are very low. For Samsung,
high margins on the higher-end flagships offset the low margins on the
mid-range and lower-end products.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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nospam
Jan 7, 2019, 11:42:10 PM1/7/19
to
In article <q113fe$qp6$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
for what it is, but it's lacking a number of things that iphones have.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Compare mid-line phones like the Lenovo/Moto X4 and the iPhone 7 or 8. I
> don't know the profit on the X4 but it's definitely a mid-range phone
> like the iPhone 7 and 8
no, it definitely isn't like an iphone 7 or 8. the x4 is pretty good
> Compare mid-line phones like the Lenovo/Moto X4 and the iPhone 7 or 8. I
> don't know the profit on the X4 but it's definitely a mid-range phone
> like the iPhone 7 and 8
for what it is, but it's lacking a number of things that iphones have.
arlen holder
Jan 8, 2019, 11:43:02 AM1/8/19
to
On Mon, 07 Jan 2019 23:42:09 -0500, nospam wrote:
> no, it definitely isn't like an iphone 7 or 8. the x4 is pretty good
> for what it is, but it's lacking a number of things that iphones have.
*You'll _never_ get price-to-performance out of any new Apple iPhone.*
> no, it definitely isn't like an iphone 7 or 8. the x4 is pretty good
> for what it is, but it's lacking a number of things that iphones have.
As usual, nospam, you forget that there is tons of app functionality on
even a five year old Android phone that is not on even the most expensive
of the most expensive $1500 iOS iPhone.
You just can't compare the two ecosystems on price to performance because
you'll _never_ get price-to-performance on any new Apple iPhone.
It's basically impossible for simple reasons which we've discussed:
o Hardware
o Software
1. Apple new hardware, although astronomically priced, is slightly worse,
overall than similarly priced (usually a few hundred less) Android hardware
2. Apple software, while it works well inside a Mom/Pop walled-garden
ecosystem, is decidedly primitive when it comes to overall app
functionality as compared to Android.
You may not like those facts, nospam, but they are still facts nonetheless.
Hence, you will _never_ get good price-to-performance for new iPhones.
You can't.
It's basically impossible.
What ends up happening, interestingly, is that Apple has the effect of
partially ruining the price-to-performance of the best Android hardware,
where companies like Samsung "try" to garner the outrageous profit margins
that Apple enjoys.
The problem is that Apple is one of the best Marketing orgs on the planet.
Samsung is decidedly well below Apple when it comes to Marketing (IMHO).
So all Samsung can do, IMHO, is make a better phone (which isn't hard to
do), and then, they price that phone as close to an iPhone as they possibly
can (but always being below the iPhone in price).
Hence, my argument, which I believe is sound, is that you'll NEVER get
price-to-performance from the new iPhones. You can't.
o Apple prices the new iPhones stratospherically
o Apple hardware is, in general, slightly inferior to Android (overall)
I believe those are valid adult arguments.
I expect you to childishly say "nonsense" but you always do that.
You can't ever discuss things like an adult would discuss them, nospam.
Let's see how you respond to facts when presented in an adult manner.
sms
Jan 8, 2019, 1:59:52 PM1/8/19
to
On 1/8/2019 8:43 AM, arlen holder wrote:
<snip>
> What ends up happening, interestingly, is that Apple has the effect of
> partially ruining the price-to-performance of the best Android hardware,
> where companies like Samsung "try" to garner the outrageous profit margins
> that Apple enjoys.
Samsung is very different because they are willing to address multiple
markets, from low-end, to mid-range, to flagship, and they don't sell
all the different product lines in all the countries they operate in. To
an increasing extent, the top Chinese smart phone manufacturers are
doing the same thing.
Comparing the closest mid-range phones (quad-carrier, similar screen
size, similar functionality) highlights the problem. How do you get
normal consumers, that could afford an iPhone, to be willing to pay 3-4
times the cost for a product that offers no compelling advantages to
them (and this is even more the case in China).
My wife has her new iPhone 7 from work and her new personal X4. Each has
its advantages and disadvantages but she appreciates several features of
the X4 that are not present on the iPhone 7. The X4 has better cameras,
the X4 has a flash on the front as well as on the back, the X4 has a
headphone jack which she uses all the time, the X4 has a larger and
higher-resolution screen. On the flip side, even though the X4 has a
much larger battery than the iPhone 7, the X4 doesn't last as long
between charging but the X4 has fast charging which the iPhone 7 lacks.
While the flagship iPhone Xs does have better cameras than the X4, a)
there is no way she would spend that much on a phone, and b) she doesn't
want a larger phone.
I bought an iPhone recently but a) it will be paid for by my employer,
b) I bought it for reasons unrelated to functionality, c) I bought an
older model (6s Plus) at a very reasonable price ($230), mainly because
I wanted the headphone jack, both for headphones and for other
peripherals, and even though I could have bought a more expensive model
and I would not have had to pay for it I should set an example of frugality.
<snip>
> What ends up happening, interestingly, is that Apple has the effect of
> partially ruining the price-to-performance of the best Android hardware,
> where companies like Samsung "try" to garner the outrageous profit margins
> that Apple enjoys.
markets, from low-end, to mid-range, to flagship, and they don't sell
all the different product lines in all the countries they operate in. To
an increasing extent, the top Chinese smart phone manufacturers are
doing the same thing.
Comparing the closest mid-range phones (quad-carrier, similar screen
size, similar functionality) highlights the problem. How do you get
normal consumers, that could afford an iPhone, to be willing to pay 3-4
times the cost for a product that offers no compelling advantages to
them (and this is even more the case in China).
My wife has her new iPhone 7 from work and her new personal X4. Each has
its advantages and disadvantages but she appreciates several features of
the X4 that are not present on the iPhone 7. The X4 has better cameras,
the X4 has a flash on the front as well as on the back, the X4 has a
headphone jack which she uses all the time, the X4 has a larger and
higher-resolution screen. On the flip side, even though the X4 has a
much larger battery than the iPhone 7, the X4 doesn't last as long
between charging but the X4 has fast charging which the iPhone 7 lacks.
While the flagship iPhone Xs does have better cameras than the X4, a)
there is no way she would spend that much on a phone, and b) she doesn't
want a larger phone.
I bought an iPhone recently but a) it will be paid for by my employer,
b) I bought it for reasons unrelated to functionality, c) I bought an
older model (6s Plus) at a very reasonable price ($230), mainly because
I wanted the headphone jack, both for headphones and for other
peripherals, and even though I could have bought a more expensive model
and I would not have had to pay for it I should set an example of frugality.
JF Mezei
Jan 8, 2019, 2:09:38 PM1/8/19
to
On 2019-01-07 18:10, Lewis wrote:
> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion they make every year.
> But I am sure you know best.
Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion they make every year.
> But I am sure you know best.
isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
More importantly, Apple is now starting to visibly feel the changes in
the smartphone market in terms of how often people replace and
stabilizing penetration rates in large markets. This is more of a long
term concern than China which is currently experiencing a cold (which
hopefully Trump won't cause to turn to pneumonia with his ill conceived
trade wars/temper trantrums.
arlen holder
Jan 8, 2019, 3:02:08 PM1/8/19
to
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 14:09:37 -0500, JF Mezei wrote:
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
Actually, I think it's critical to note that "something" changed recently.
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
*It's important to realize that "something" _surprised_ Apple in the math.*
Apple didn't expect _that_ "something" to change.
Apple said that something was "China" (for the most part).
Most pundits don't agree (for the most part) that it's "China".
Hence...
The question is, what is that "something" that Apple didn't account for?
I think that "something" is very simply a one-two punch:
o Apple shipped an entire line of expensive highly flawed phones, & then,
o Apple followed up with a super expensive line of (similar?) phones.
Personally, I think what happened is simple:
o Apple _thought_ people would line up, like sheep, to buy the new phones.
o Apparently, they didn't.
I caveat those statements above as my "opinion" since the fact is that
nobody knows what the "something" was that recently changed that wasn't in
the original math that Apple had accounted for in their earlier guidance.
> More importantly, Apple is now starting to visibly feel the changes in
> the smartphone market in terms of how often people replace and
> stabilizing penetration rates in large markets.
and I have found reports to be from 32 to 35 months on average, for all
consumer mobile phones - which is up from 24 months).
However, that trend was well known - even to us here on m.p.m.i, so I doubt
_that_ trend could possibly have been the "surprise" in the math that
caused Apple to misjudge the numbers.
We have to look for something that Apple miscalculated.
For example, Tim Cook said the $30 battery caused people to purchase fewer
new $1000 to $1500 iPhones, which, again, any one of us could have forseen,
but maybe _that_ is what Apple miscalculated?
Personally, I think the miscalculation surprise was simply that the sheep
stopped coming to Cupertino's Infinite Loop to graze.
Personally, I think _that_ was the surprise.
> This is more of a long
> term concern than China which is currently experiencing a cold (which
> hopefully Trump won't cause to turn to pneumonia with his ill conceived
> trade wars/temper trantrums.
provided evidence that the "trade wars" are working to the advantage,
overall, of the USA (but they could easily backfire also).
If you *believe* Tim Cook that the "unexpected problem" was "China", then
the trade wars matter.
But, most pundits don't seem to believe Tim Cook's explanation.
Do they?
Do you find that a lot of the experts are agreeing with Apple about their
unexpected change in guidance?
If so, are we seeing *all* the similar Android phone companies saying the
same thing? (Note: Samsung won't meet expectations - but - Samsung did NOT
blame China, based on what was presented in this newsgroup).
My point is that if it's *only* Apple blaming China for their unexpected
math screwup, then we have to look critically at whether it's _really_
China, or something else that Apple miscalculated on.
Personally, I think there's evidence that Apple overpriced their new
phones, which we can see a bit of in the lack of sales but even more
directly, we can see in the 'discounts' that Apple is offering (via trade
ins).
Those "discounts" aren't proof, of course, but just an indication that
Apple simply thought they would catch more sheep than they did.
As one pundit said, the iPhone battery fiasco wizened the naive user!
--
DISCLAIMER: Nobody whispers in my ear what "mistake" Apple made so this is
just my opinion, based mostly on facts, but also an opinion - that Apple
overpriced their new phones after screwing up royally on the older phones.
arlen holder
Jan 8, 2019, 3:02:09 PM1/8/19
to
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 10:59:50 -0800, sms wrote:
> Samsung is very different because they are willing to address multiple
> markets, from low-end, to mid-range, to flagship, and they don't sell
> all the different product lines in all the countries they operate in. To
> an increasing extent, the top Chinese smart phone manufacturers are
> doing the same thing.
Hi sms,
> Samsung is very different because they are willing to address multiple
> markets, from low-end, to mid-range, to flagship, and they don't sell
> all the different product lines in all the countries they operate in. To
> an increasing extent, the top Chinese smart phone manufacturers are
> doing the same thing.
<Warning ... I rambled below ... sorry ... I was in a talkative mood.>
Thanks for explaining the Samsung business model, where, I do comprehend
that you're saying it's not an exact copy of the Apple iPhone marketing
model - which I would agree with you on.
The fact that Samsung strings out the models is a basic marketing move
(it's the classic "good-better-best" product differentiation strategy).
I appreciate your point that you distinguish this model from Apple's
product differentiation model - where - I agree - so I will amend my
statement to say that "some" of the Android manufacturers take their
high-end phones (only the high end) and then try to "copy" Apple's
admittedly very successful pricing-to-performance strategy.
In general, they Android phones are priced lower (but not always), where
I'm sure nospam can find one or three Android phones which have a WORSE
price-to-performance ratio to any particular iPhone (although nospam will
have to cherry pick on "benchmarks" because every iPhone will lose 100% of
the time on app functionality to any Android phone - even a five year old
Android phone).
Overall, I agree with you that Android marketing only copies Apple
marketing on the very few really high end phones - and even then - they're
not the same (e.g., many have hardware features that iPhones lack).
> Comparing the closest mid-range phones (quad-carrier, similar screen
> size, similar functionality) highlights the problem. How do you get
> normal consumers, that could afford an iPhone, to be willing to pay 3-4
> times the cost for a product that offers no compelling advantages to
> them (and this is even more the case in China).
met that I know well when they pull out their iPhone.
I ask them WHY on earth such smart people use such a dumb phone.
Most are smart people, by the way, but I do that as a dig to them, since
there is no good reason, on price-to-performance, to be so badly restricted
as what iOS offers the consumer.
What MOST of them say is that they like the "privacy", but that's just them
caving in to MARKETING since I can easily show that they completely lack
privacy because the weakest links on the iPhone are pretty damn weak.
For example, as just one recent situation, I use NewPipe on Android to
watch and subscribe to YouTube videos - which - as you know - can't be done
on iOS.
On iOS, you _must_ give Google everything - whether you like it or not - if
you're gonna use their YouTube player - hence - there is zero privacy using
YouTube on iOS and yet, on Android, there is privacy.
Most of the people I ask why they have the iPhone haven't really THOUGHT
about it. They just take in the propaganda without thinking.
They _think_ they get privacy - but - it's a phone for Christs' sake.
Nobody has privacy on a consumer grade mobile phone.
Apple has bamboozled them, just as mothers bamboozle kids by telling them
the monsters can't get out of the closet at night if you just shut the
closet door.
> My wife has her new iPhone 7 from work and her new personal X4. Each has
> its advantages and disadvantages but she appreciates several features of
> the X4 that are not present on the iPhone 7.
> The X4 has better cameras,
> the X4 has a flash on the front as well as on the back, the X4 has a
> headphone jack which she uses all the time, the X4 has a larger and
> higher-resolution screen.
In fact, I've always provided facts showing that the astronomically high
overall cost of ownership of iPhones, in general, is utterly astounding.
Note: The resale value of the iPhone is only 1 component of the overall
astoundingly high cost of ownership of iPhones and iPads.
> On the flip side, even though the X4 has a
> much larger battery than the iPhone 7, the X4 doesn't last as long
> between charging but the X4 has fast charging which the iPhone 7 lacks.
Of course, I don't use them much anymore - just because they don't actually
do anything that I don't already have on Android - but - the batteries are
fine.
That's why I was so shocked when I broke the news to this very newsgroup
about a year ago that Apple was secretly, permanently, and drastically
throttling iPhones - which - as we later found out - happens to EVERY
single phone in last year's lineup (even though Apple told Congress, in
February last year, that the throttling wasn't "as necessary" on the 8 and
X models.
Apparently the throttling was "necessary enough". :)
But, on my iPads, the battery is fantastic. I agree.
> While the flagship iPhone Xs does have better cameras than the X4, a)
> there is no way she would spend that much on a phone, and b) she doesn't
> want a larger phone.
ten in the dxomark tests, year after year after year. Often there are more
than a dozen Android phones which have better camera output.
Sometimes, particularly after a launch, Apple climbs into the top five, and
recently into the top slot (actually, without looking, I think the most
expensive iPhones ever are still not number one - but number two???).
I'd have to check on that detail - but the point is that the camera isn't
as good as Apple Marketing makes people think it is.
It's good. It's actually VERY GOOD. But there are always better Android
phones when it comes to camera output quality. That's a fact that has been
borne out over the years, so it's a general fact that most iPhone users
don't know.
As I said, most iPhone users don't know as much as people like you do, and
that's partly because they succumb to Apple Marketing ploys. I will ALWAYS
admit that Apple Marketing is FANTASTIC. The best of the best.
I don't say such nice things about the users - but Apple Marketing is
fantastic!
People like you and me own Android devices and iOS devices.
We KNOW the difference since it's visible instantaneously.
The lack of functionality on iOS is visible the moment you set up the
screen, for example. And you know this so I won't belabor that topic.
> I bought an iPhone recently but a) it will be paid for by my employer,
> b) I bought it for reasons unrelated to functionality,
It's actually impossible to purchase iOS devices based on functionality.
You know why so I won't belabor that issue.
Suffice to say it's impossible.
Nobody who is intelligent could ever purchase iOS phones based on
functionality. Nor price-to-performance.
They buy iPhones for OTHER reasons!
o Some of them wrong (e.g., they _think_ they get privacy), and,
o Some of them right (e.g., specific apps work great in the walled garden)
I think you and I have a very balanced and factual knowledge of what iOS
phones provide and what they don't provide, simply because we use both iOS
and Android all the time ourselves.
Most iOS users are ignorant of this.
Or, those who are like nospam or Jolly Roger are always trying to claim iOS
has functionality that it just doesn't have.
(As an aside, why the apologists incessantly claim iOS has functionality
that it just doesn't have is one of the strangest quirks of the apologists.
I don't know why they do that. They do it all the time. And they don't even
care that they're always dead wrong. It's a strange way for an adult to
act.)
> c) I bought an
> older model (6s Plus) at a very reasonable price ($230), mainly because
> I wanted the headphone jack, both for headphones and for other
> peripherals, and even though I could have bought a more expensive model
> and I would not have had to pay for it I should set an example of frugality.
many of my iPads for free (as gifts), and I give out iPhones as gifts when
I have to (i.e., mostly for teen girls who don't know any better).
I have to admit a few things about iOS, in that I use it every day myself:
o It has nothing over Android - but - the teen girls LOVE it.
o Lots of intelligent people whip out an iPhone - and they LOVE it too.
You can't deny that people LOVE their iPhones!
The main thing I can say is that they never have a good reason that is
based on facts as to WHY they love it.
The best they can say that is actually factual is that it works very well
when you stay completely inside the walled garden. That's a fact.
I don't deny that fact - but it doesn't work at all in the "real world",
which you know to be the case (perhaps not as well as I do since I use
Linux far more, I think, than you do).
Yet, interestingly, with Linux, I can instantly turn the iOS iPad into a
read and write 128GB USB stick (well, less than that) simply by plugging in
that iOS iPad into the USB port of a dual-boot Ubuntu.
Voila!
Instant iOS read/write USB stick!
Now that's working in the real world!
(It works better as a USB stick with Ubuntu than it does with Windows!)
Likewise, with SharePod (the older versions), I can plug any iPod into any
Windows computer and the entire iPod acts just like a read/write USB stick.
Voila!
The point is that, if you're intelligent about it, you _can_ make iOS work
in the real world. It's just not as easily done as with all other
platforms.
</warning>
BTW, did you see the big building-sized ad that Apple placed in Las Vegas?
Rod Speed
Jan 8, 2019, 4:21:35 PM1/8/19
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> More importantly, Apple is now starting to visibly feel the changes
> in the smartphone market in terms of how often people replace
> and stabilizing penetration rates in large markets.
It would be a fucking sight more surprising if it didn’t
given how the smartphone industry has matured.
> This is more of a long term concern than China which is currently
> experiencing a cold (which hopefully Trump won't cause to turn
> to pneumonia with his ill conceived trade wars/temper trantrums.
But nothing even apple can do about the maturing of the smartphone
market. Its not as if there is another market with anything like the same
potential that apple can get into now and turn that market on its head
like it did with smartphones and to a lesser extent tablets.
> Lewis wrote
>> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion
>> they make every year. But I am sure you know best.
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
You're mangling content with and expectations.
>> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion
>> they make every year. But I am sure you know best.
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
> More importantly, Apple is now starting to visibly feel the changes
> in the smartphone market in terms of how often people replace
> and stabilizing penetration rates in large markets.
given how the smartphone industry has matured.
> This is more of a long term concern than China which is currently
> experiencing a cold (which hopefully Trump won't cause to turn
> to pneumonia with his ill conceived trade wars/temper trantrums.
market. Its not as if there is another market with anything like the same
potential that apple can get into now and turn that market on its head
like it did with smartphones and to a lesser extent tablets.
Lewis
Jan 8, 2019, 5:23:31 PM1/8/19
to
In message <Rz6ZD.1680$G14....@fx29.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2019-01-07 18:10, Lewis wrote:
>> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion they make every year.
>> But I am sure you know best.
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
It doesn't mean that at all. Words are hard, aren't they.
> On 2019-01-07 18:10, Lewis wrote:
>> Apple seems to be content with the 300+ billion they make every year.
>> But I am sure you know best.
> Apple announcing it won't meet what it had expected to make means it
> isn't content with what it is making since it was expecting to make more.
> More importantly, Apple is now starting to visibly feel the changes in
> the smartphone market in terms of how often people replace and
> stabilizing penetration rates in large markets.
percentage points? Investors were expecting over 14 billion in profit
for the quarter and Samsung's revision is under $10, a drop of nearly
30%.
This is a world economy problem and not an Apple problem. As i said
weeks ago, this is only going to get worse. Samsung and LG's
disastrous revisions are only the beginning.
--
I've never seen religious faith move mountains, but I've seen what it does
to skyscrapers.
Alan Browne
Jan 8, 2019, 9:18:09 PM1/8/19
to
On 2019-01-06 14:20, JF Mezei wrote:
There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester
There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester
arlen holder
Jan 9, 2019, 1:19:18 PM1/9/19
to
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 21:18:03 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
> There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
> world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
I must agree with Alan Browne that Apple is one of the most successfully
> There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
> world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
marketed and run companies on this planet.
Specifically, Apple garners a brand LOYALTY that is almost unique in the
annals of business.
As a result, Apple enjoys PROFITS like you can't believe, particularly on
huge margins over costs based on the price points that they set.
The fact Apple garners such brand LOYALTY & PROFITS is the envy of
(almost?) every company on this planet - which I agree with Alan on.
Unfortunately, what this means, is that, sometimes, other brands try to
COPY what works for Apple - which is a bad thing for consumers, such as
o Removing headphone jack functionality
o Removing external storage functionality
o Removing battery-removal functionality
What's also VERY BAD for consumers is that some high end brands try to copy
Apple's PRICING model - which just makes everything worse for everyone.
Luckily, there's enough competition in the Android marketplace that, while
nospam will always tout the worst price-to-perofrmance phone he can cherry
pick, intelligent people like sms can always find a *better*
price-to-performance performer, when comparing apples to androids.
JF Mezei
Jan 9, 2019, 1:57:30 PM1/9/19
to
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 21:18:03 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
>> world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
Have some pity for that poor Church of Apple, who despite serious
>
>> There is not a single company, executive or board of directors in the
>> world that wouldn't LOVE to have Apple's "Woes".
attempts, must announce, every quarter, that it has failed to control
its finances and instead of moving towards it non-profit goal, must
relucatntly announce that its profits are out of control and keep
growing. It's appaling how mismanaged they are :-)
To make matters worse, its failure to move towards non-profit is
resulting in it still pouring cash into its piggybank, which, despite
stock buybacks and increased dividends, stands at $130b.
Instead of requiring every member donate 10% of their revenues, the
Mormons should have gone into the smartphone business, and they too
would have great difficulty in maintaining a not-for-profit status :-)
arlen holder
Jan 11, 2019, 12:19:03 AM1/11/19
to
On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:57:29 -0500, JF Mezei wrote:
> Have some pity for that poor Church of Apple, who despite serious
> attempts, must announce, every quarter, that it has failed to control
> its finances and instead of moving towards it non-profit goal, must
> relucatntly announce that its profits are out of control and keep
> growing. It's appaling how mismanaged they are :-)
If you're responding to me, then you completely misunderstood what I said.
> Have some pity for that poor Church of Apple, who despite serious
> attempts, must announce, every quarter, that it has failed to control
> its finances and instead of moving towards it non-profit goal, must
> relucatntly announce that its profits are out of control and keep
> growing. It's appaling how mismanaged they are :-)
I never once said Apple was "mismanaged".
In fact, I explicitly said it was "well run" for heaven's sake.
If your comment was directed to me, that's fine - but at least comprehend
what I said if it was. (If your comment was directed to someone else, then
my response here does not apply.)
> To make matters worse, its failure to move towards non-profit is
> resulting in it still pouring cash into its piggybank, which, despite
> stock buybacks and increased dividends, stands at $130b.
IMHO, that's not due to its product, which is not all that great.
That's due to it's stellar MARKETING.
Apple has, by far, one of the best MARKETING orgs on this planet.
Apple _knows_ its customer almost perfectly.
Did you listen, for example, to the recent Tim Cook interview?
The entire interview was filled with Tim Cook essentially saying how he
plans on fooling his customer, e.g.,
o He said the trade in "looks" like a subsidy to the customer
o He said spreading the payments "feels like" the old carrier model
The _entire_ interview, essentially, implied that the Apple customer is
ungodly stupid, since he even said (multiple times) the Apple customer
isn't even able to reliably transfer data from one phone to another.
He actually said that.
o Tim Cook just literally said his customer is unfathomably stupid!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/lRcSApyiCAAJ>
That entire interview simply said, for anyone with intelligence:
o The Apple customer is so stupid I can 'fool' them into buying iPhones
What's interesting is that even Apple admits the customer is stupid.
> Instead of requiring every member donate 10% of their revenues, the
> Mormons should have gone into the smartphone business, and they too
> would have great difficulty in maintaining a not-for-profit status :-)
don't actually have any adult argument.
My argument is simple:
1. Apple is a well run company
2. Apple MARKETING is the best of the best of the best of the best
3. Apple customers are about as dumb as any customers can be
(loop back to number 1)
Tim Cook clearly said so.
o Tim Cook just literally said his customer is unfathomably stupid!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/lRcSApyiCAAJ>
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