AirTags: What will you be tagging? Conspicuous or discrete?

[Alan Browne]

Here's my OTTOMH list.

Keys: no.
Car: yes[1].
Cat: at least to try.
Drones: yes.
Wife[2]: no.
Mistress: no.
Girfriend: yes. I just have this feeling ...
Buddy's wife: no. (ref: "mistress" above).
Camera bag: yes. I can have my wife sew it into a hidden spot.
Baggage (travel): yes. Need up to 4 of these I guess.
Bugbackbag: maybe
Golf bag: no. Steal them please.

The other issue is discretion. While on a keyset they'd be pretty hard
to conceal, in my car I'd want it well concealed. Likewise baggage,
etc. A thief can so easily throw the tag away or throw it on the
crosstown bus...

Apple site: "AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking.
If someone else’s AirTag finds its way into your stuff, your
iPhone will notice it’s travelling with you and send you an
alert. After a while, if you still haven’t found it, the AirTag
will start playing a sound to let you know it’s there.

Of course, if you happen to be with a friend who has an AirTag, or
on a train with a whole bunch of people with AirTag, don’t worry.
These alerts are triggered only when an AirTag is separated from
its owner."

So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
iPhones that there is a tag present?

My SO forgets her phone at home at least once a month. So if she has a
tag in her purse (or with her keys), how long until she's annoyed by the
buzzing? Will her Watch suppress that?

And those Hermes accessories. Why no 4 packs? Or variety packs. You
know, to save some money.

----

[1] Not sure how long it will take car thieves to routinely detect the
BT coming off of these or how easy it will be to locate a cleverly
hidden tag. I'll look into modifying the tag to look like a car part,
ie: some interior decoration.
[2] Yeah. I know. Really.

[Chris]

On 22/04/2021 18:49, Alan Browne wrote:
>
> Here's my OTTOMH list.
>
> Keys:          no.
> Car:           yes[1].
> Cat:           at least to try.

Oi! That was my idea ;)

> Drones:        yes.
> Wife[2]:       no.
> Mistress:      no.
> Girfriend:     yes.  I just have this feeling ...
> Buddy's wife:  no.  (ref: "mistress" above).
> Camera bag:    yes. I can have my wife sew it into a hidden spot.
> Baggage (travel): yes.  Need up to 4 of these I guess.
> Bugbackbag:    maybe
> Golf bag:      no.  Steal them please.
>
> The other issue is discretion.  While on a keyset they'd be pretty hard
> to conceal, in my car I'd want it well concealed.  Likewise baggage,
> etc.  A thief can so easily throw the tag away or throw it on the
> crosstown bus...
>
> Apple site: "AirTag is designed to discourage unwanted tracking.
>     If someone else’s AirTag finds its way into your stuff, your
>     iPhone will notice it’s travelling with you and send you an
>     alert. After a while, if you still haven’t found it, the AirTag
>     will start playing a sound to let you know it’s there.
>
>     Of course, if you happen to be with a friend who has an AirTag, or
>     on a train with a whole bunch of people with AirTag, don’t worry.
>     These alerts are triggered only when an AirTag is separated from
>     its owner."
>
> So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
> iPhones that there is a tag present?

I also wonder about in a luggage compartment on a train or plane. Will
random train and airport staff get constantly pestered by people luggage
AirTags?

I can see totally why Apple have done this. We were talking them at
dinner the other night about who would you track with one until we found
out that it alerted the potential target. So need to only target people
with Android phones :)

> My SO forgets her phone at home at least once a month.  So if she has a
> tag in her purse (or with her keys), how long until she's annoyed by the
> buzzing?  Will her Watch suppress that?
>
> And those Hermes accessories.  Why no 4 packs?  Or variety packs.  You
> know, to save some money.

Have seen the price!? Need a second mortgage to get a 4-pack.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-04-22 14:56, Chris wrote:
> On 22/04/2021 18:49, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> Here's my OTTOMH list.
>>
>> Keys:          no.
>> Car:           yes[1].
>> Cat:           at least to try.
>
> Oi! That was my idea ;)

Did you put a tracker on your idea so you can prove it?

>> So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
>> iPhones that there is a tag present?
>
> I also wonder about in a luggage compartment on a train or plane. Will
> random train and airport staff get constantly pestered by people luggage
> AirTags?
>
> I can see totally why Apple have done this. We were talking them at
> dinner the other night about who would you track with one until we found
> out that it alerted the potential target. So need to only target people
> with Android phones :)

A shifty bunch if ever there were any. Need to be tracked. Hunted down.

>
>> My SO forgets her phone at home at least once a month.  So if she has
>> a tag in her purse (or with her keys), how long until she's annoyed by
>> the buzzing?  Will her Watch suppress that?
>>
>> And those Hermes accessories.  Why no 4 packs?  Or variety packs.  You
>> know, to save some money.
>
> Have seen the price!? Need a second mortgage to get a 4-pack.

We shop at Costco to save money. It's putting us into the poor house
with all the savings...

[Lewis]

In message <pGigI.10713$od....@fx15.iad> Alan Browne <Blac...@entropy.ultimateorg> wrote:
> The other issue is discretion. While on a keyset they'd be pretty hard
> to conceal, in my car I'd want it well concealed. Likewise baggage,
> etc. A thief can so easily throw the tag away or throw it on the
> crosstown bus...

These are not anti-theft tags, nor are they designed or intended to be
anti-theft tags, They are "where did I leave it" tags. Nothing more.

> So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
> iPhones that there is a tag present?

Yes. See above.

> My SO forgets her phone at home at least once a month. So if she has a
> tag in her purse (or with her keys), how long until she's annoyed by the
> buzzing?

A question only she can answer.

> Will her Watch suppress that?

Maybe?

--
The truth isn't easily pinned to a page. In the bathtub of history
the truth is harder to hold than soap, and much more difficult to
find...

[Chris]

On 22/04/2021 20:06, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2021-04-22 14:56, Chris wrote:
>> On 22/04/2021 18:49, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's my OTTOMH list.
>>>
>>> Keys:          no.
>>> Car:           yes[1].
>>> Cat:           at least to try.
>>
>> Oi! That was my idea ;)
>
> Did you put a tracker on your idea so you can prove it?

Obviously I'm not the first to think of this. Apple: "AirTags not
designed for tracking Children or Pets"
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/airtags-for-items-not-pets-children/

But they do confirm that:

"As for strapping an AirTag to a pet, Drance says, “If people do that,
they just have to make sure that their moving pet gets into range of a
device in the ‌Find My‌ network” so its location can be tracked."

So as long as you live in a populated environment pet tracking should
work more or less.

>>> So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
>>> iPhones that there is a tag present?
>>
>> I also wonder about in a luggage compartment on a train or plane. Will
>> random train and airport staff get constantly pestered by people
>> luggage AirTags?
>>
>> I can see totally why Apple have done this. We were talking them at
>> dinner the other night about who would you track with one until we
>> found out that it alerted the potential target. So need to only target
>> people with Android phones :)
>
> A shifty bunch if ever there were any.  Need to be tracked.  Hunted down.

There is a definite risk to non-iphone weilding individuals. I wonder if
Tile has the same issue?

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-04-23 06:09, Chris wrote:
> On 22/04/2021 20:06, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2021-04-22 14:56, Chris wrote:
>>> On 22/04/2021 18:49, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here's my OTTOMH list.
>>>>
>>>> Keys:          no.
>>>> Car:           yes[1].
>>>> Cat:           at least to try.
>>>
>>> Oi! That was my idea ;)
>>
>> Did you put a tracker on your idea so you can prove it?
>
> Obviously I'm not the first to think of this. Apple: "AirTags not
> designed for tracking Children or Pets"
> https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/airtags-for-items-not-pets-children/
>
> But they do confirm that:
>
> "As for strapping an AirTag to a pet, Drance says, “If people do that,
> they just have to make sure that their moving pet gets into range of a
> device in the ‌Find My‌ network” so its location can be tracked."
>
> So as long as you live in a populated environment pet tracking should > work more or less.

To be seen. Anyway, ordered a 4 pack a few minutes ago along with a
variety of Hermes straps.

(Spot the lie).

>>>> So would the AirTags be (after a while) alerting thieves who have
>>>> iPhones that there is a tag present?
>>>
>>> I also wonder about in a luggage compartment on a train or plane.
>>> Will random train and airport staff get constantly pestered by people
>>> luggage AirTags?
>>>
>>> I can see totally why Apple have done this. We were talking them at
>>> dinner the other night about who would you track with one until we
>>> found out that it alerted the potential target. So need to only
>>> target people with Android phones :)
>>
>> A shifty bunch if ever there were any.  Need to be tracked.  Hunted down.
>
> There is a definite risk to non-iphone weilding individuals. I wonder if
> Tile has the same issue?

Tile is generally a short range device. For long range it depends on
random people installing the Tile app to report Tile hits. Not popular
enough. But it can be abused, I suppose.

Apple have brute forced this on the world: all up to date iOS devices
will report hits via the Apple servers.

Ethically questionable? Some might say so. OTOH, nobody complains
about road traffic data - and that is mobile devices reporting position
and speed data (anonymously) to collectors who farm out the data to
buyers. (Not sure if Apple roll their own or use such a collector
agency - or both so that they also get Android collected traffic data).

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-04-22 19:24, Lewis wrote:
> In message <pGigI.10713$od....@fx15.iad> Alan Browne <Blac...@entropy.ultimateorg> wrote:
>> The other issue is discretion. While on a keyset they'd be pretty hard
>> to conceal, in my car I'd want it well concealed. Likewise baggage,
>> etc. A thief can so easily throw the tag away or throw it on the
>> crosstown bus...
>
> These are not anti-theft tags, nor are they designed or intended to be
> anti-theft tags, They are "where did I leave it" tags. Nothing more.

Apple do cast them as "lost item" locators, but to be sure people will
be tagging things in the hope of recovering them after a theft.

[cris]

On 23/04/2021 14:56, Alan Browne wrote:

> ordered a 4 pack a few minutes ago

The limit is 16 AirTags to any one Apple ID.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90628073/apple-airtag-privacy-security

They discuss how to track pets & children in that report & suggest this
https://wairco.com/pages/apple-airtags-cases-for-pets

[Lewis]

In message <xKzgI.127068$2A5.1...@fx45.iad> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2021-04-22 19:24, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <pGigI.10713$od....@fx15.iad> Alan Browne <Blac...@entropy.ultimateorg> wrote:
>>> The other issue is discretion. While on a keyset they'd be pretty hard
>>> to conceal, in my car I'd want it well concealed. Likewise baggage,
>>> etc. A thief can so easily throw the tag away or throw it on the
>>> crosstown bus...
>>
>> These are not anti-theft tags, nor are they designed or intended to be
>> anti-theft tags, They are "where did I leave it" tags. Nothing more.

> Apple do cast them as "lost item" locators, but to be sure people will
> be tagging things in the hope of recovering them after a theft.

People do all sorts of stupid things, relying on a tracker like a Tile
or a AirTag to locate stolen items would be one of those stupid things.


--
If life were to suddenly get fair, I doubt it would happen in high school.

[Alan Browne]

Good article (fast company):
QUOITE Tapping on the prompt will take the finder of your AirTag to an
Apple support page featuring the AirTag’s unique serial number and—if
the AirTag owner so chooses—the phone number of the AirTag’s owner so
the finder can call or text. /QUOTE

A better interface would be for the finder to enter information via the
Apple site and that could be relayed to the owner. Then the owner could
decide on contact method. This can be anonymized both ways until trust
is established.

QUOTE Right now, the AirTag needs to be out of range of its paired
device for three days for the sound to emit, but Apple could lengthen or
shorten this time via a software update in the future. /QUOTE

Aha! We're in the cat tracking business.

QUOTE Though you wouldn’t be able to find out the owner of the AirTag
from this serial number, Apple could determine the owner since the
AirTag’s unique serial number is associated with an Apple ID during its
initial Pair Lock setup.
“If you are concerned that there’s a risk of your being tracked you
could contact law enforcement,” Drance notes. /QUOTE

Sandpaper will slow that process to a crawl I expect.

QUOTE “What the [AirTag’s] serial number is used for is when you first
set up your AirTag it is paired with an Apple ID along with some
additional information such as your name, your email address, your date
of birth, and things like that, which [Apple] could provide to law
enforcement if asked for, with the proper warrants and process.”

How hard is it to fake an Apple ID on a 2nd hand iPhone? Not very.

16 is a reasonable limit I suppose though I don't see why it would be
limited. I assume that they can be de-commissioned at some point(?).

[cris]

On 23/04/2021 17:25, Alan Browne wrote:

> 16 is a reasonable limit I suppose though I don't see why

Maybe to prevent rampant abuse by well funded actors?

An example might be a company wanting to keep track of its assets?

Or LE who disables some of the privacy features but keeps the tracking?

[nospam]

In article <s5v4p1$2385$1...@neodome.net>, cris <cr...@removespam.me.com>

wrote:

>
> > 16 is a reasonable limit I suppose though I don't see why
>
> Maybe to prevent rampant abuse by well funded actors?
>
> An example might be a company wanting to keep track of its assets?
>
> Or LE who disables some of the privacy features but keeps the tracking?

or a troll who hasn't a clue how it works.

[Chris]

Is it not the same process for trying to find a lost/stolen phone?

[Alan Browne]

The phone itself is trackable and lockable.

My camera bag can be shed of its AirTag quite quickly, however.

[Rod Speed]

"Alan Browne" <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote in message
news:_tzgI.30818$Qf2....@fx38.iad...

In fact some jurisdictions have been stupid enough to ban that.

> (Not sure if Apple roll their own or use such a collector agency - or both
> so that they also get Android collected traffic data).

Nothing to do with apple, its done by the cellphone base tower operators.

[cris]

On 23/04/2021 16:23, nospam wrote:

>> Or LE who disables some of the privacy features but keeps the tracking?
>
> or a troll who hasn't a clue how it works.

Apple knows AirTags can be abused
https://mashable.com/article/apple-airtags-abuse-privacy-concerns/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=onsite

That the tiny tracking fobs might be used, whether by stalkers or abusive
partners, to keep tabs on unwitting victims is a real concern....

.... and when it comes to technology with the potential for abuse, it's
only a matter of time.

[Chris]

I imagine both of those already have workable solutions. AirTags are
consumer tech.