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Questions on buying an iPhone for AT&T BYOD
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Patty Winter
Feb 4, 2016, 8:05:04 PM2/4/16
to
I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
fine.
Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
let me buy theirs.
I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
but there was some dispute about whether, for example, a Verizon phone
could take full advantage of AT&T's LTE network. So should I stick to
an AT&T or unlocked direct-from-Apple phone?
I'd appreciate any recommendations on how to acquire a suitable phone.
Patty
or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
fine.
Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
let me buy theirs.
I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
but there was some dispute about whether, for example, a Verizon phone
could take full advantage of AT&T's LTE network. So should I stick to
an AT&T or unlocked direct-from-Apple phone?
I'd appreciate any recommendations on how to acquire a suitable phone.
Patty
nospam
Feb 4, 2016, 8:36:42 PM2/4/16
to
In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
expensive options.
> Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
> good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
> if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
> anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
> the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
> phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
> let me buy theirs.
the trade-in credit they get is convenient and guaranteed payment, but
it's less than what they can sell it on their own. if you know someone
who is upgrading, offer them more than whatever credit they'd be
getting.
there are places that sell used iphones in good condition, such as
gazelle. they check the phones before selling and you won't get
screwed.
there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
honest but not all.
also keep in mind that apple is rumoured to announce a new iphone to
replace the aging 5s next month, which will cause used prices to drop a
bit.
> I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
> carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
there is no lock code as there are with other phones. the unlock needs
to be requested from the carrier, then it's updated on apple's servers
and pushed to the phone.
> but there was some dispute about whether, for example, a Verizon phone
> could take full advantage of AT&T's LTE network. So should I stick to
> an AT&T or unlocked direct-from-Apple phone?
there is no dispute. all verizon lte-capable phones (not just iphones)
are unlocked out of the box, which includes the iphone 5 and later.
verizon also bulk unlocked all iphone 4ses, which does not have lte.
iphones for other carriers may or may not be unlocked. at&t will unlock
on request, even for non-customers. other carriers may be more
restrictive.
<pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> fine.
if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> fine.
expensive options.
> Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
> good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
> if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
> anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
> the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
> phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
> let me buy theirs.
it's less than what they can sell it on their own. if you know someone
who is upgrading, offer them more than whatever credit they'd be
getting.
there are places that sell used iphones in good condition, such as
gazelle. they check the phones before selling and you won't get
screwed.
there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
honest but not all.
also keep in mind that apple is rumoured to announce a new iphone to
replace the aging 5s next month, which will cause used prices to drop a
bit.
> I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
> carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
to be requested from the carrier, then it's updated on apple's servers
and pushed to the phone.
> but there was some dispute about whether, for example, a Verizon phone
> could take full advantage of AT&T's LTE network. So should I stick to
> an AT&T or unlocked direct-from-Apple phone?
are unlocked out of the box, which includes the iphone 5 and later.
verizon also bulk unlocked all iphone 4ses, which does not have lte.
iphones for other carriers may or may not be unlocked. at&t will unlock
on request, even for non-customers. other carriers may be more
restrictive.
Rod Speed
Feb 5, 2016, 1:35:55 AM2/5/16
to
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:040220162036411711%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
> <pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
> if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
> expensive options.
>
>> Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
>> good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
>> if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
>> anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
>> the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
>> phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
>> let me buy theirs.
>
> the trade-in credit they get is convenient and guaranteed payment, but
> it's less than what they can sell it on their own. if you know someone
> who is upgrading, offer them more than whatever credit they'd be
> getting.
>
> there are places that sell used iphones in good condition, such as
> gazelle. they check the phones before selling and you won't get
> screwed.
>
> there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> honest but not all.
If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
> <pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
> if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
> expensive options.
>
>> Of course, I would need a phone to go with the plan. :-) The 5s looks
>> good for my needs, but I don't want to buy a brand-new one for $450
>> if I don't have to. I've asked some friends, but so far haven't found
>> anyone who's about to upgrade and might have a spare phone. Also, with
>> the upgrade plans these days, people get good credit for their old
>> phones, right? So it might be hard to find someone who's willing to
>> let me buy theirs.
>
> the trade-in credit they get is convenient and guaranteed payment, but
> it's less than what they can sell it on their own. if you know someone
> who is upgrading, offer them more than whatever credit they'd be
> getting.
>
> there are places that sell used iphones in good condition, such as
> gazelle. they check the phones before selling and you won't get
> screwed.
>
> there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> honest but not all.
they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 2:50:02 AM2/5/16
to
In article <3fd8bbhueho8oa22a...@4ax.com>,
<c_mulh...@nym.hush.com> wrote:
>
>Too bad you were not aware the phone would not cost you as much if you
>signed a 2 year contract. That would have saved you alots of cash.
Not sure why you're talking in the conditional past tense. Are you saying
that I should have been psychic and known some time back that the subsidies
were ending and I should run out and get a smartphone?
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 3:00:03 AM2/5/16
to
In article <040220162036411711%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
>if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
>expensive options.
I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
>if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
>expensive options.
at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
that would give me more capabilities.
>the trade-in credit they get is convenient and guaranteed payment, but
>it's less than what they can sell it on their own. if you know someone
>who is upgrading, offer them more than whatever credit they'd be
>getting.
I guess the exact amount of their credit will depend on how far into their
plan they are.
>there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
>blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
>honest but not all.
who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
have been turned in to the carriers? I couldn't find any used iPhones on
AT&T's website.
>also keep in mind that apple is rumoured to announce a new iphone to
>replace the aging 5s next month, which will cause used prices to drop a
>bit.
phone next month or shortly thereafter.
>> I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
>> carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
>
>there is no lock code as there are with other phones. the unlock needs
>to be requested from the carrier, then it's updated on apple's servers
>and pushed to the phone.
most of the carriers locked iPhones to their networks.
Patty
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 9:02:25 AM2/5/16
to
In article <56b454c2$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
> >there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> >blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> >honest but not all.
>
> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
> have been turned in to the carriers?I couldn't find any used iPhones on
> AT&T's website.
buying a used cellphone (any make) from a place whose business is used
phones is fairly safe. if there's a problem, they'll deal with it.
buying a phone from an individual seller on ebay is riskier but it is
often less expensive.
> >> I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
> >> carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
> >
> >there is no lock code as there are with other phones. the unlock needs
> >to be requested from the carrier, then it's updated on apple's servers
> >and pushed to the phone.
>
> If there's no lock code, why would anything need to be unlocked?
an iphone might still be locked, but unlike other phones, the unlocking
method for iphones does not use a code.
it's done at apple's end by request of the carrier who originally
locked it. usually the carrier will then tell you to restore it with
itunes to update its new unlock status, but that's not always required.
> I thought
> most of the carriers locked iPhones to their networks.
not anymore. these days, it's locked if you get a subsidized phone and
usually unlocked if you pay in full.
verizon is required to not lock their lte phones so even if you do get
a subsidized verizon phone, it's unlocked, which is mainly why used
verizon phones tend to have a higher resale value.
<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> >> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> >> fine.
> >
> >if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
> >expensive options.
>
> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
> that would give me more capabilities.
what capabilities do you want?
> >> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> >> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> >> fine.
> >
> >if you don't need much of a voice or data plans, there are less
> >expensive options.
>
> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
> that would give me more capabilities.
t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
> >there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> >blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> >honest but not all.
>
> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
> AT&T's website.
buying a used cellphone (any make) from a place whose business is used
phones is fairly safe. if there's a problem, they'll deal with it.
buying a phone from an individual seller on ebay is riskier but it is
often less expensive.
> >> I've read varying reports about whether I can use a phone from another
> >> carrier on AT&T. Theoretically, I guess you can change the lock code,
> >
> >there is no lock code as there are with other phones. the unlock needs
> >to be requested from the carrier, then it's updated on apple's servers
> >and pushed to the phone.
>
> If there's no lock code, why would anything need to be unlocked?
method for iphones does not use a code.
it's done at apple's end by request of the carrier who originally
locked it. usually the carrier will then tell you to restore it with
itunes to update its new unlock status, but that's not always required.
> I thought
> most of the carriers locked iPhones to their networks.
usually unlocked if you pay in full.
verizon is required to not lock their lte phones so even if you do get
a subsidized verizon phone, it's unlocked, which is mainly why used
verizon phones tend to have a higher resale value.
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 9:02:26 AM2/5/16
to
In article <dhiu69...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> > honest but not all.
>
> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
not necessarily, but even if they did, it's still a huge hassle.
> >
> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> > honest but not all.
>
> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
Lewis
Feb 5, 2016, 9:03:24 AM2/5/16
to
In message <56b452e6$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>
It's hard to say what he's saying. Subsidized phones cost *more*, not
less.
--
First we must assume a spherical cow.
less.
--
First we must assume a spherical cow.
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 9:19:18 AM2/5/16
to
> I purchased an iPhone 5s for my wife and one for me; the day before AT&T
> stopped subsidizing their phones. Instead of paying $449.99 for each phone
> I was able to get both phones for $49.99 each with a 2 year contract.
>
> This made us both very happy.
>
> We were also able to keep our unlimited: data, voice & text plans plus my
> employee discount because of my employer.
the actual cost of subsidized phone is included in the contract, which
is why there's an early termination fee. you're paying for it one way
or another.
monthly plans from mvnos without a contract can be dirt cheap, then add
in a few hundred for the phone, and you'll be *way* ahead versus a
subsidized phone.
> stopped subsidizing their phones. Instead of paying $449.99 for each phone
> I was able to get both phones for $49.99 each with a 2 year contract.
>
> This made us both very happy.
>
> We were also able to keep our unlimited: data, voice & text plans plus my
> employee discount because of my employer.
>
> Too bad you were not aware the phone would not cost you as much if you
> signed a 2 year contract. That would have saved you alots of cash.
you're not getting a cheaper phone.
> Too bad you were not aware the phone would not cost you as much if you
> signed a 2 year contract. That would have saved you alots of cash.
the actual cost of subsidized phone is included in the contract, which
is why there's an early termination fee. you're paying for it one way
or another.
monthly plans from mvnos without a contract can be dirt cheap, then add
in a few hundred for the phone, and you'll be *way* ahead versus a
subsidized phone.
Jolly Roger
Feb 5, 2016, 12:15:09 PM2/5/16
to
Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
> have been turned in to the carriers? I couldn't find any used iPhones on
> AT&T's website.
Personally I would steer clear of eBay for something like an iPhone. It's
>
> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
> have been turned in to the carriers? I couldn't find any used iPhones on
> AT&T's website.
just too easy to get into a situation that is a real hassle to resolve,
IMO. My time and nerves are worth more than that to me. : )
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 12:50:11 PM2/5/16
to
In article <050220160902246233%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <56b454c2$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
>> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>> that would give me more capabilities.
>
>what capabilities do you want?
Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-
>In article <56b454c2$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
>> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>> that would give me more capabilities.
>
>what capabilities do you want?
hour phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone
is 10 cents a minute.
Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
>text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly
with the actual providers.
Patty
Zaidy036
Feb 5, 2016, 1:17:45 PM2/5/16
to
T-Mobile and customer chooses. Their plans are flexible and can be changed
by the user as required at anytime. I am paying half of what I paid AT&T
previously. 5% discount for AARP members. They sell phones using deposit
plus monthly fee without interest charge. $10 per device basic charge and
then shared minutes, text, and data.
--
Zaidy036
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 1:28:08 PM2/5/16
to
In article <56b4defa$0$32941$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
you might want to consider voip solutions, which can even be free,
especially if you're calling from home. voip over cellular data is not
always ideal.
> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
> >t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
> >text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>
> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>
> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly
> with the actual providers.
it's the same product, you'll just be paying less.
<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
> >> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
> >> that would give me more capabilities.
> >
> >what capabilities do you want?
>
> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-
> hour phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone
> is 10 cents a minute.
10c/min is high. many mvnos are 5c/min or less.
> >
> >> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
> >> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
> >> that would give me more capabilities.
> >
> >what capabilities do you want?
>
> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-
> hour phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone
> is 10 cents a minute.
you might want to consider voip solutions, which can even be free,
especially if you're calling from home. voip over cellular data is not
always ideal.
> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
<pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> fine.
and now you say unlimited voice and 2g data???
> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
> fine.
> >t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
> >text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>
> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>
> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly
> with the actual providers.
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 1:29:52 PM2/5/16
to
In article <u0q9bbp3cdu0t7npp...@4ax.com>,
<c_mulh...@nym.hush.com> wrote:
>
> The end of subsidies were advertised on Yahoo, Google, TV & Radio. That is
> how I found out about it.
if you paid $49 for a smartphone that required a 2 year contract, it
was subsidized.
<c_mulh...@nym.hush.com> wrote:
>
> The end of subsidies were advertised on Yahoo, Google, TV & Radio. That is
> how I found out about it.
if you paid $49 for a smartphone that required a 2 year contract, it
was subsidized.
Rod Speed
Feb 5, 2016, 1:33:55 PM2/5/16
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:050220160902256321%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> In article <dhiu69...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
>> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
>> > honest but not all.
>>
>> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
>> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
>
> not necessarily,
Yes, necessarily if you check the seller qualifies before buying.
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
>> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
>> > honest but not all.
>>
>> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
>> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
>
> not necessarily,
> but even if they did, it's still a huge hassle.
something as black and white as whether its
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 1:40:14 PM2/5/16
to
In article <dhk88g...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> >> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> >> > honest but not all.
> >>
> >> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
> >> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
> >
> > not necessarily,
>
> Yes, necessarily if you check the seller qualifies before buying.
>
> > but even if they did, it's still a huge hassle.
>
> Bullshit. It works fine and no hassle at all with
> something as black and white as whether its
> blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged.
it's always a hassle to return something and then buy another one.
> >> > there's always ebay, but you need to be very careful that it's not
> >> > blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged. most sellers are
> >> > honest but not all.
> >>
> >> If you pay using paypal, you will get a full refund if
> >> they can't deliver what they said you would be getting.
> >
> > not necessarily,
>
> Yes, necessarily if you check the seller qualifies before buying.
>
> > but even if they did, it's still a huge hassle.
>
> Bullshit. It works fine and no hassle at all with
> something as black and white as whether its
> blacklisted or icloud locked or otherwise damaged.
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 2:55:10 PM2/5/16
to
In article <dhk3ks...@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
>> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
>> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
>> have been turned in to the carriers? I couldn't find any used iPhones on
>> AT&T's website.
>
>Personally I would steer clear of eBay for something like an iPhone. It's
>just too easy to get into a situation that is a real hassle to resolve,
>IMO. My time and nerves are worth more than that to me. : )
But a company with a good rating on Amazon would be pretty safe, right?
>Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was browsing eBay and Amazon the other day, and there are some sellers
>> who've sold hundreds or thousands of phones with excellent seller ratings,
>> but that still wouldn't be my first choice. Do they get the phones that
>> have been turned in to the carriers? I couldn't find any used iPhones on
>> AT&T's website.
>
>Personally I would steer clear of eBay for something like an iPhone. It's
>just too easy to get into a situation that is a real hassle to resolve,
>IMO. My time and nerves are worth more than that to me. : )
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 2:55:10 PM2/5/16
to
In article <050220161328072770%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <56b4defa$0$32941$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
>> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
>> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>
>you originally said:
>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
>and now you say unlimited voice and 2g data???
The $40/month plan IS unlimited voice and 2G of data. (Actually
>In article <56b4defa$0$32941$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
>> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
>> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>
>you originally said:
>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>> fine.
>
>and now you say unlimited voice and 2g data???
unlimited data, but they throttle the speed after the first 2G/month.)
From what I see of the available plans, 2G really is "not much." It's
one of the lower tiers of data plans.
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 2:55:10 PM2/5/16
to
>On 05 Feb 2016 07:44:38 GMT, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>No offense intended.
considering getting a new phone then.
Patty
>
>No offense intended.
>
>The end of subsidies were advertised on Yahoo, Google, TV & Radio. That is
>how I found out about it.
Okay. That news probably didn't register with me because I wasn't
>The end of subsidies were advertised on Yahoo, Google, TV & Radio. That is
>how I found out about it.
considering getting a new phone then.
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 2:55:10 PM2/5/16
to
In article <n92oqs$9km$1...@dont-email.me>,
Zaidy036 <Zaid...@air.isp.spam> wrote:
>
>Consumer Cellular offers plans without contract. They use either AT&T or
>T-Mobile and customer chooses. Their plans are flexible and can be changed
>by the user as required at anytime. I am paying half of what I paid AT&T
>previously. 5% discount for AARP members. They sell phones using deposit
>plus monthly fee without interest charge. $10 per device basic charge and
>then shared minutes, text, and data.
I don't need any kind of sharing plan, which I presume is more expensive
>
>Consumer Cellular offers plans without contract. They use either AT&T or
>T-Mobile and customer chooses. Their plans are flexible and can be changed
>by the user as required at anytime. I am paying half of what I paid AT&T
>previously. 5% discount for AARP members. They sell phones using deposit
>plus monthly fee without interest charge. $10 per device basic charge and
>then shared minutes, text, and data.
than a non-sharing plan. Are there no downsides to using a reseller? It
seems too good to be true: lower price, same networks.
Patty
Jolly Roger
Feb 5, 2016, 3:22:48 PM2/5/16
to
through their web site. Even some that have relatively high ratings show
comments from buyers who receive the wrong products and so on. So the
devil is in the details. If you happen to purchase a used iPhone from
someone that has actually been stolen and is locked as a result, you're
in for some headaches while you work to return it and get your money
back. I'm simply saying my time and nerves are worth more than that to
me. So I'll purchase my Apple kit directly from Apple. Different strokes
for different folks, of course. If you want to take that risk, and don't
mind dealing with the potential headaches that come with it, I say go
for it!
Zaidy036
Feb 5, 2016, 3:34:56 PM2/5/16
to
--
Zaidy036
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 4:30:08 PM2/5/16
to
In article <56b4fc67$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
are you planning on streaming audio or video?
if not, 2g is a shitload of data.
> It's
> one of the lower tiers of data plans.
definitely not.
are you planning on streaming audio or video?
if not, 2g is a shitload of data.
> It's
> one of the lower tiers of data plans.
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 4:30:09 PM2/5/16
to
In article <56b4fd43$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
name, they're not called resellers.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
sell previously owned ones).
here's a list:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
ork_operators>
<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >Consumer Cellular offers plans without contract. They use either AT&T or
> >T-Mobile and customer chooses. Their plans are flexible and can be changed
> >by the user as required at anytime. I am paying half of what I paid AT&T
> >previously. 5% discount for AARP members. They sell phones using deposit
> >plus monthly fee without interest charge. $10 per device basic charge and
> >then shared minutes, text, and data.
>
> I don't need any kind of sharing plan, which I presume is more expensive
> than a non-sharing plan. Are there no downsides to using a reseller? It
> seems too good to be true: lower price, same networks.
although they buy bandwidth wholesale and resell it under their own
> >Consumer Cellular offers plans without contract. They use either AT&T or
> >T-Mobile and customer chooses. Their plans are flexible and can be changed
> >by the user as required at anytime. I am paying half of what I paid AT&T
> >previously. 5% discount for AARP members. They sell phones using deposit
> >plus monthly fee without interest charge. $10 per device basic charge and
> >then shared minutes, text, and data.
>
> I don't need any kind of sharing plan, which I presume is more expensive
> than a non-sharing plan. Are there no downsides to using a reseller? It
> seems too good to be true: lower price, same networks.
name, they're not called resellers.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
sell previously owned ones).
here's a list:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
ork_operators>
Rod Speed
Feb 5, 2016, 4:52:09 PM2/5/16
to
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
for a bullshit artist. And quite often you don't even have to return
it at all, and paypal pays for the return even if you do.
Hilo Black
Feb 5, 2016, 4:54:24 PM2/5/16
to
"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
news:56b4fc98$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Hilo Black
Feb 5, 2016, 4:56:35 PM2/5/16
to
news:56b4fd43$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net...
I haven't found any and use one myself. In fact much better customer
service than the operation they are reselling and I have used them both.
> It seems too good to be true: lower price, same networks.
Because they don’t have the massive bureaucracy that has to be paid for.
service than the operation they are reselling and I have used them both.
> It seems too good to be true: lower price, same networks.
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 5:10:03 PM2/5/16
to
In article <dhkekn...@mid.individual.net>,
find a used phone from a friend. And maybe the 5s prices will go
down next month if the rumors are true about Apple introducing a
new iPhone 5. But I thought I'd do a little research on other ways
to buy a phone as a backup plan.
Patty
Lewis
Feb 5, 2016, 6:25:03 PM2/5/16
to
In message <56b4fc67$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net>
2G is pretty slow, while 2GB is plenty of data for most people (not me,
but most people).
Last billing period I used 18.97GB of data on T-Mobile. This billing
period I have used 9.53GB with 15 days left in the nilling period.
--
Chico: You sing-a high. Connie: Yes, I have a falsetto voice. Chico:
That's-a funny; my last pupil she had-a false set-a teeth.
Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> In article <050220161328072770%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>In article <56b4defa$0$32941$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
>>> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
>>> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>>
>>you originally said:
>>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>>> fine.
>>
>>and now you say unlimited voice and 2g data???
> The $40/month plan IS unlimited voice and 2G of data. (Actually
> unlimited data, but they throttle the speed after the first 2G/month.)
That makes no sense. Either it is 2G data, or 2GB *of* data.
> In article <050220161328072770%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>In article <56b4defa$0$32941$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
>>> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
>>> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>>
>>you originally said:
>>In article <56b3f3de$0$32882$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, but I don't need much of a voice
>>> or data plan, so I think AT&T's prepaid $40/month plan will do me
>>> fine.
>>
>>and now you say unlimited voice and 2g data???
> The $40/month plan IS unlimited voice and 2G of data. (Actually
> unlimited data, but they throttle the speed after the first 2G/month.)
2G is pretty slow, while 2GB is plenty of data for most people (not me,
but most people).
Last billing period I used 18.97GB of data on T-Mobile. This billing
period I have used 9.53GB with 15 days left in the nilling period.
--
Chico: You sing-a high. Connie: Yes, I have a falsetto voice. Chico:
That's-a funny; my last pupil she had-a false set-a teeth.
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 7:05:02 PM2/5/16
to
In article <dhkk0e...@mid.individual.net>,
Hilo Black <hbk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
>news:56b4fc98$0$32900$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>
>> But a company with a good rating on Amazon would be pretty safe, right?
>
>Depends on how many transactions the rating is based on.
The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>> But a company with a good rating on Amazon would be pretty safe, right?
>
>Depends on how many transactions the rating is based on.
range of 1,500-2,000.
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 7:15:01 PM2/5/16
to
In article <050220161630088056%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>although they buy bandwidth wholesale and resell it under their own
>name, they're not called resellers.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
>
>at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
>for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
>
>there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
>fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
>sell previously owned ones).
>
>here's a list:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
>ork_operators>
Okay, I'll check into that.
>
>although they buy bandwidth wholesale and resell it under their own
>name, they're not called resellers.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
>
>at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
>for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
>
>there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
>fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
>sell previously owned ones).
>
>here's a list:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
>ork_operators>
I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
for newer features and longer iOS compatibility. They also didn't
say whose network they used, although maybe I could figure that out
by comparing their map with those of the major carriers. It all seemed
a bit squirrely to me, but I'll do more research.
Patty
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 7:28:30 PM2/5/16
to
In article <56b538b4$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
> They also didn't
> say whose network they used, although maybe I could figure that out
> by comparing their map with those of the major carriers. It all seemed
> a bit squirrely to me, but I'll do more research.
what's this mystery mvno called?
a quick search suggests it's affinity cellular
<http://community.autoclubgroup.aaa.com/t5/Share-Your-Views/Affinity-Cel
lular-sponsored-by-AAA/td-p/234702>
<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >although they buy bandwidth wholesale and resell it under their own
> >name, they're not called resellers.
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
> >
> >at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
> >for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
> >
> >there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
> >fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
> >sell previously owned ones).
> >
> >here's a list:
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
> >ork_operators>
>
> Okay, I'll check into that.
>
> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
> >although they buy bandwidth wholesale and resell it under their own
> >name, they're not called resellers.
> >
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator>
> >
> >at one time, apple was considering becoming an mvno (and might still be
> >for all anyone knows). google already has with project fi.
> >
> >there isn't really any downside. shop the plans and get whatever best
> >fits your needs. some even sell iphones (and i think some might even
> >sell previously owned ones).
> >
> >here's a list:
> ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_netw
> >ork_operators>
>
> Okay, I'll check into that.
>
> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
> They also didn't
> say whose network they used, although maybe I could figure that out
> by comparing their map with those of the major carriers. It all seemed
> a bit squirrely to me, but I'll do more research.
a quick search suggests it's affinity cellular
<http://community.autoclubgroup.aaa.com/t5/Share-Your-Views/Affinity-Cel
lular-sponsored-by-AAA/td-p/234702>
Jolly Roger
Feb 5, 2016, 7:33:48 PM2/5/16
to
complaints were described in those bad reviews? Like I said, the devil
is in the details.
Hilo Black
Feb 5, 2016, 9:32:12 PM2/5/16
to
news:56b536a1$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Those are pretty reliable but I personally look at
the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 10:35:02 PM2/5/16
to
In article <dhktbb...@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>On 2016-02-05, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>
>What percentage of those 2000 were 1-3 star (bad) reviews?
I don't know how to tell that. The only statistics I see are
>On 2016-02-05, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>
>What percentage of those 2000 were 1-3 star (bad) reviews?
what percentages are Positive (4-5 stars?), Neutral (3 stars?),
or Negative (1-2 stars?). The combination of Neutral and Negative
adds up to 1-2%.
>What sort of
>complaints were described in those bad reviews?
which presumably provides a higher level of confidence in case
there's a problem.
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 5, 2016, 10:35:04 PM2/5/16
to
In article <050220161928290117%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>In article <56b538b4$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
>> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
>> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
>> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
>
>personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>In article <56b538b4$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
>> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
>> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
>> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
>
>personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>what's this mystery mvno called?
>
>a quick search suggests it's affinity cellular
><http://community.autoclubgroup.aaa.com/t5/Share-Your-Views/Affinity-Cel
>lular-sponsored-by-AAA/td-p/234702>
Patty
nospam
Feb 5, 2016, 10:54:59 PM2/5/16
to
In article <56b568a7$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
it's the 6+ that's huge.
the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
> >what's this mystery mvno called?
> >
> >a quick search suggests it's affinity cellular
> ><http://community.autoclubgroup.aaa.com/t5/Share-Your-Views/Affinity-Cel
> >lular-sponsored-by-AAA/td-p/234702>
>
> Yes, that's the one. No iPhone 5 models.
so what. bring your own device, otherwise known as byod in the
industry, or look for an mvno that sells a 5s. some even sell pre-owned
phones.
<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> >> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
> >> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
> >> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
> >> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
> >
> >personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>
> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
> >> I had seen an ad in the California AAA magazine for an MVNO that
> >> has special deals for CSAA members, but the only iPhones they had
> >> were iPhone 4 models, and I think it would be better to get a 5
> >> for newer features and longer iOS compatibility.
> >
> >personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>
> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
it's the 6+ that's huge.
the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
> >what's this mystery mvno called?
> >
> >a quick search suggests it's affinity cellular
> ><http://community.autoclubgroup.aaa.com/t5/Share-Your-Views/Affinity-Cel
> >lular-sponsored-by-AAA/td-p/234702>
>
> Yes, that's the one. No iPhone 5 models.
industry, or look for an mvno that sells a 5s. some even sell pre-owned
phones.
Hilo Black
Feb 5, 2016, 11:59:25 PM2/5/16
to
news:56b5686a$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net...
> The only statistics I see are what percentages
> are Positive (4-5 stars?), Neutral (3 stars?),
> or Negative (1-2 stars?). The combination
> of Neutral and Negative adds up to 1-2%.
That's the answer to his question, you do know that.
>> What sort of complaints were described in those bad reviews?
> Stuff not working.
What really matters is what the supplier
didn’t fix by supplying one that did work.
Tho its obviously better if stuff always works.
>
> In article <dhktbb...@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>On 2016-02-05, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>>
>>What percentage of those 2000 were 1-3 star (bad) reviews?
>
> I don't know how to tell that.
Amazon shows you that.
> In article <dhktbb...@mid.individual.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>On 2016-02-05, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>>
>>What percentage of those 2000 were 1-3 star (bad) reviews?
>
> I don't know how to tell that.
> The only statistics I see are what percentages
> are Positive (4-5 stars?), Neutral (3 stars?),
> or Negative (1-2 stars?). The combination
> of Neutral and Negative adds up to 1-2%.
>> What sort of complaints were described in those bad reviews?
> Stuff not working.
didn’t fix by supplying one that did work.
Tho its obviously better if stuff always works.
Patty Winter
Feb 6, 2016, 12:10:15 AM2/6/16
to
In article <dhl49b...@mid.individual.net>,
>news:56b536a1$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>
>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>
>Those are pretty reliable but I personally look at
>the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
>someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
This is very confusing. If I search for iPhone 5s on Amazon and then
>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>
>Those are pretty reliable but I personally look at
>the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
>someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
select a specific color and RAM capacity, I get something like this
page:
http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-5S-16GB-Refurbished/dp/B00YD53YQU/
That shows only 59% 5-star reviews and 14% 4-star reviews, with 17%
1-star reviews.
This page has exactly the same number of reviews in exactly the same
percentages, yet for a different color/capacity from a different seller:
http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-Unlocked-Smartphone-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B00YD5400Y
But if I go to individual seller pages, I see things like 98-99% positive
and 1% negative:
http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A37VHTD60S0G3C&tab=&vasStoreID=
http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A3TBDBTCHAVT15&tab=&vasStoreID=
So I think there's a generic 5s page that collates reviews about all
sellers, meaning that it doesn't accurately represent customers'
experiences with individual sellers.
Patty
Hilo Black
Feb 6, 2016, 3:44:52 AM2/6/16
to
news:56b57dec$0$32864$742e...@news.sonic.net...
link.
This one is tho
http://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=AT5ZWRAJ36F48&tab=&vasStoreID=
> So I think there's a generic 5s page that collates reviews about all
> sellers, meaning that it doesn't accurately represent customers'
> experiences with individual sellers.
Looking at just your first one and the one I posted just above,
it looks more likely that with KLAMP Electronics, they haven't
moved a hell of a lot of iphone 5s and the 17% bads references
they have got is swamped by the much better total of all they
have shipped, 20 times as much other stuff in fact. They got
55 1 star references for the iphone 5s they sold, which isnt
even 1% of the total of 10,211 of all they sold.
So clearly if you want an iphone 5s, they are a seller to avoid.
>
> In article <dhl49b...@mid.individual.net>,
> Hilo Black <hbk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
>>news:56b536a1$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>>
>>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>>
>>Those are pretty reliable but I personally look at
>>the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
>>someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
>
> This is very confusing. If I search for iPhone 5s on Amazon and then
> select a specific color and RAM capacity, I get something like this
> page:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-5S-16GB-Refurbished/dp/B00YD53YQU/
>
> That shows only 59% 5-star reviews and 14% 4-star reviews, with 17%
> 1-star reviews.
>
> This page has exactly the same number of reviews in exactly the same
> percentages, yet for a different color/capacity from a different seller:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-Unlocked-Smartphone-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B00YD5400Y
>
> But if I go to individual seller pages, I see things like 98-99% positive
> and 1% negative:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A37VHTD60S0G3C&tab=&vasStoreID=
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A3TBDBTCHAVT15&tab=&vasStoreID=
Neither of those is the KLAMP Electronics that does so badly in your first
> In article <dhl49b...@mid.individual.net>,
> Hilo Black <hbk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote in message
>>news:56b536a1$0$32873$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>>
>>> The ones I was looking at had sold many hundreds of phones, in the
>>> range of 1,500-2,000.
>>
>>Those are pretty reliable but I personally look at
>>the 1 star comments and usually find it hard to find
>>someone who doesn’t have at least 10% of those.
>
> This is very confusing. If I search for iPhone 5s on Amazon and then
> select a specific color and RAM capacity, I get something like this
> page:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-5S-16GB-Refurbished/dp/B00YD53YQU/
>
> That shows only 59% 5-star reviews and 14% 4-star reviews, with 17%
> 1-star reviews.
>
> This page has exactly the same number of reviews in exactly the same
> percentages, yet for a different color/capacity from a different seller:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/Apple-Unlocked-Smartphone-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B00YD5400Y
>
> But if I go to individual seller pages, I see things like 98-99% positive
> and 1% negative:
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A37VHTD60S0G3C&tab=&vasStoreID=
>
> http://smile.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=A3TBDBTCHAVT15&tab=&vasStoreID=
link.
This one is tho
http://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=AT5ZWRAJ36F48&tab=&vasStoreID=
> So I think there's a generic 5s page that collates reviews about all
> sellers, meaning that it doesn't accurately represent customers'
> experiences with individual sellers.
it looks more likely that with KLAMP Electronics, they haven't
moved a hell of a lot of iphone 5s and the 17% bads references
they have got is swamped by the much better total of all they
have shipped, 20 times as much other stuff in fact. They got
55 1 star references for the iphone 5s they sold, which isnt
even 1% of the total of 10,211 of all they sold.
So clearly if you want an iphone 5s, they are a seller to avoid.
M. John Matlaw
Feb 6, 2016, 7:40:53 AM2/6/16
to
On 2/5/16 12:42 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
> In article <050220160902246233%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <56b454c2$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>> <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
>>> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>>> that would give me more capabilities.
>>
>> what capabilities do you want?
>
> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-
> hour phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone
> is 10 cents a minute.
>> text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>
> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>
> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly
> with the actual providers.
>
>
> Patty
>
Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
Also saw an ATT $30 a month unlimited talk/text 2gb data with rollover
plan - https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/data-plans.html - but that
might be a contract thing.
HTH
> In article <050220160902246233%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <56b454c2$0$32917$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>> <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line
>>> at home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>>> that would give me more capabilities.
>>
>> what capabilities do you want?
>
> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-
> hour phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone
> is 10 cents a minute.
>
> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>
>
>> t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had
> a real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan
> for my iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>
>
>> text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>
> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>
> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly
> with the actual providers.
>
>
> Patty
>
Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
Also saw an ATT $30 a month unlimited talk/text 2gb data with rollover
plan - https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/data-plans.html - but that
might be a contract thing.
HTH
nospam
Feb 6, 2016, 11:05:48 AM2/6/16
to
In article <n94pf8$g65$1...@dont-email.me>, M. John Matlaw
should be throttled.
> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
> the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
> data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
> to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
> with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
> was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
it's not so much the amount of data but the time needed to launch a
voip app to establish a connection (which for an incoming call might
mean you miss the call) as well as latencies.
<nou...@invalid.com> wrote:
> Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
who cares. anyone using 5g of data in a single month is a data hog and
> Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
should be throttled.
> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
> the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
> data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
> to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
> with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
> was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
voip app to establish a connection (which for an incoming call might
mean you miss the call) as well as latencies.
Jolly Roger
Feb 6, 2016, 12:44:49 PM2/6/16
to
On 2016-02-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <56b568a7$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>>
>> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>
> the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
> 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
> In article <56b568a7$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>>
>> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>
> the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
> 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
welcome it.
> it's the 6+ that's huge.
> the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
the lineup, IMHO.
Rod Speed
Feb 6, 2016, 1:09:39 PM2/6/16
to
M. John Matlaw <nou...@invalid.com> wrote
> Patty Winter wrote
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote
>>>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line at
>>>> home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>>>> that would give me more capabilities.
>>> what capabilities do you want?
>> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-hour
>> phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone is 10
>> cents a minute.
>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had a
>> real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan for my
>> iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>>> t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
>>> text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
>> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
>> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
>> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
>> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
>> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly with
>> the actual providers.
>>>> I currently have an $8/month AT&T plan, but if I drop my second line at
>>>> home, I could apply that money towards a higher-rate cellphone plan
>>>> that would give me more capabilities.
>>> what capabilities do you want?
>> Voice either a lot of minutes or unlimited. I recently made a two-hour
>> phone call from my home phone and it cost me $12. My cellphone is 10
>> cents a minute.
>> Maybe 1-2GB of data. I don't know how much data I might use if I had a
>> real data plan; currently I only have the 200MB T-Mobile free plan for my
>> iPad, so I don't use it much. I hit the limit once just doing
>> a bit of geocaching. I'm sure I would use the data capabilities of an
>> iPhone more, so I want to have a plan in the gigabyte range.
>>> t-mobile has a $30/mo plan with 100 voice minutes and unlimited
>>> text/data. mvnos can be less than $5.
>> I checked AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Based just on pricing,
>> not network coverage, they're all in the $30-50/month range. In some
>> cases, there's an "access fee" on top of that. The AT&T plan I'm
>> looking at is nominally $45/month, but if you sign up for automatic
>> refills they drop it to $40, and it actually has unlimited data usage,
>> except they throttle the speed after the first 2GB/month.
>> I'm aware of resellers but feel more comfortable dealing directly with
>> the actual providers.
> Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on the
> phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
> data use came to about a half a meg a minute.
I measured twice that, for voice only.
> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on the
> phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
> data use came to about a half a meg a minute.
> I recall that when I tried to find out how well Skype (or voip in general)
> might work before going with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup
> (forgot which one it was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not
> sure what that meant.
mine used it exclusively for more than a year and we hardly
ever got that on his calls when he used that in Australia.
Did have a lot of problems when he used it in China to call
Australia well over 5 years ago now, but it was much better
the last time he used it from there, over a year ago. China
does attempt to stop the use of skype and he normally
used it over an VPN recently, but it did work much better
the second time around. He doesn’t use it anymore tho,
uses a regular cellphone contract instead. Much more
expensive than using Skype. He did tell me what he pays,
but I forget now, likely $40 a month. He doesn’t put a lot
of effort into analysing stuff so that may just have been
a whim and not for any solid reason.
One real downside with Skype to normal landlines and
cellphones is that the presentation of caller id is very
unreliable so its impossible to know who is calling
quite a bit of the time and whether it’s a spam call.
nospam
Feb 6, 2016, 1:39:50 PM2/6/16
to
In article <dhmpof...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
most people add a case anyway, which makes the 5s with a case as big or
even bigger than a 6.
> > it's the 6+ that's huge.
>
> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
and a perfect size for others.
that's why apple now has 3 sizes.
> > the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
>
> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed the smaller form factor from
> the lineup, IMHO.
they didn't remove the smaller size. the 5s is still sold and about to
be updated.
<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
> >>
> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
> >
> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>
> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
> welcome it.
the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
> >>
> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
> >
> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>
> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
> welcome it.
most people add a case anyway, which makes the 5s with a case as big or
even bigger than a 6.
> > it's the 6+ that's huge.
>
> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
that's why apple now has 3 sizes.
> > the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
>
> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed the smaller form factor from
> the lineup, IMHO.
be updated.
Rod Speed
Feb 6, 2016, 1:44:35 PM2/6/16
to
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> In article <n94pf8$g65$1...@dont-email.me>, M. John Matlaw
> <nou...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
>> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
>> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
>
> who cares. anyone using 5g of data in a single month is a data hog and
> should be throttled.
>
>> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
>> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
>> the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
>> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
>> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
>> data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
>> to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
>> with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
>> was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
> it's not so much the amount of data
It is for me, it has no advantage cost wise unless I am using wifi for the
> <nou...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
>> plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
>> the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
>
> who cares. anyone using 5g of data in a single month is a data hog and
> should be throttled.
>
>> That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
>> month though I'm not streaming video much. I'm using the Skype app on
>> the phone ($60 a year gets me a Skype number and unlimited Skyping to US
>> landline and cell phones) but, as nospam mentioned, "voip over cellular
>> data is not always ideal." I believe when I tried to do the math, voip
>> data use came to about a half a meg a minute. I recall that when I tried
>> to find out how well Skype (or voip in general) might work before going
>> with the T-mobile plan, someone in the newsgroup (forgot which one it
>> was) mentioned the possibility of stuttering. Not sure what that meant.
> it's not so much the amount of data
data.
> but the time needed to launch a voip app
> to establish a connection (which for an
> incoming call might mean you miss the call)
is running, it says you have an incoming call.
> as well as latencies.
Don't get any of that either.
One real advantage of voip on an iphone is that you
can record the call for later reference. Jobs and Ive
are too stupid to allow you to do that if you want.
Rod Speed
Feb 6, 2016, 1:59:34 PM2/6/16
to
"Jolly Roger" <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:dhmpof...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2016-02-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <56b568a7$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>>>
>>> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>>
>> the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>
> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
> that area but is still just usable.
I wouldn’t say just usable. I prefer the 5 size to the
>> In article <56b568a7$0$32904$742e...@news.sonic.net>, Patty Winter
>><pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>>>
>>> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>>
>> the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>
> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
> that area but is still just usable.
4 size myself and I mostly use a phone one handed
except when browsing or entering text etc.
> The size of the 6 equates to even more sacrifices
> for those folks who like to use their phone with
> one hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make,
Apple Pay but I would prefer to stay with the 5 size.
> which is why I am still using an iPhone 5.
Amex here and fuck all of the places I want to using
it in for my routine payments in the supermarket
checkout etc will accept Amex and those that do
for larger stuff like white goods etc slug me a
surcharge and I get to use the visa or mastercard
tap and go card for no surcharge.
> Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized
> phone update with open arms.
> I know there are many more people
> out there who will also welcome it.
>> it's the 6+ that's huge.
> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
that is a very important factor for me because mine is in
my pocket most of the time when out and about. I never
wear proper jackets with pockets, at most I have a fleece
on top and don’t put the phone in the hand pockets in
those because it falls out to easily. It goes in the jeans
pocket. I don’t use the dedicated phone pockets in
pants, too easy to damage the phone against something.
>> the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed
> the smaller form factor from the lineup, IMHO.
to get a much better time on battery tho. Not
even that easy to just use a decent case which
has its own battery in it to fix that because
with apple playing silly buggers with the chip
in the lightning cable, you're very likely to find
it stops working when iOS is upgraded and the
last thing I want to have to do is keep using an
obsolete version of iOS so the case keeps working.
Jolly Roger
Feb 6, 2016, 2:05:37 PM2/6/16
to
On 2016-02-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <dhmpof...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>> >>
>> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>> >
>> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>>
>> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
>> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
>> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
>> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
>> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
>> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
>> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
>> welcome it.
>
> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
The core issue is less about exact measurements and more about how
><jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>> >>
>> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>> >
>> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>>
>> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
>> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
>> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
>> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
>> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
>> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
>> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
>> welcome it.
>
> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
usability is affected by ever-increasing screen sizes. The fact is
one-handed use suffers more with each increase in screen size, evidenced
by the fact that Apple had to add the Reachability feature to the
largest size phone as a work-around band aid. While it's true some
people don't care much about this issue because they often use their
phones with two hands, this usability issue is *very* noticeable to
many others who prefer to use the phone with one hand more often, or who
have physiological differences where it matters.
> most people add a case anyway, which makes the 5s with a case as big or
> even bigger than a 6.
screen sizes. What may be negligible to some people is a show stopper
for others, due to individual hand sizes and usage preferences. Beyond
that you are arguing simply for the sake of argument. And there's really
no need to discount the desires of people who appreciate the smaller
form factor when there are several sizes from which to choose.
>> > it's the 6+ that's huge.
>>
>> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
>
> and a perfect size for others.
keen to discard.
>> > the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
>>
>> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed the smaller form factor from
>> the lineup, IMHO.
>
> they didn't remove the smaller size. the 5s is still sold and about to
> be updated.
parity with other sizes though. That's what I wish they had not done. I
predict you will now argue that Apple didn't do that, and you can fee
free to carry on that senseless argument on your own. I'm out.
nospam
Feb 6, 2016, 2:43:51 PM2/6/16
to
In article <dhmufv...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
makes 3 sizes.
apple was losing sales to android because they didn't have larger size
phones prior to 1.5 years ago.
> >> > the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
> >>
> >> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed the smaller form factor from
> >> the lineup, IMHO.
> >
> > they didn't remove the smaller size. the 5s is still sold and about to
> > be updated.
>
> Removed was the wrong word. They did neglect it in terms of feature
> parity with other sizes though. That's what I wish they had not done. I
> predict you will now argue that Apple didn't do that, and you can fee
> free to carry on that senseless argument on your own. I'm out.
apple saw strong demand for larger sizes and addressed that market. now
they're updating the smaller size.
they can't do everything at once.
<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> > it's the 6+ that's huge.
> >>
> >> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
> >
> > and a perfect size for others.
>
> Clearly, but it's *not* perfect for everyone, which is my point you seem
> keen to discard.
i didn't discard it at all. in fact, i explicitly said it's why apple
> >> > it's the 6+ that's huge.
> >>
> >> Ridiculously huge for many of us, yes.
> >
> > and a perfect size for others.
>
> Clearly, but it's *not* perfect for everyone, which is my point you seem
> keen to discard.
makes 3 sizes.
apple was losing sales to android because they didn't have larger size
phones prior to 1.5 years ago.
> >> > the 5s is a three year old phone and about to be replaced.
> >>
> >> Woot! : ) Apple never should have removed the smaller form factor from
> >> the lineup, IMHO.
> >
> > they didn't remove the smaller size. the 5s is still sold and about to
> > be updated.
>
> Removed was the wrong word. They did neglect it in terms of feature
> parity with other sizes though. That's what I wish they had not done. I
> predict you will now argue that Apple didn't do that, and you can fee
> free to carry on that senseless argument on your own. I'm out.
they're updating the smaller size.
they can't do everything at once.
Rod Speed
Feb 6, 2016, 4:31:00 PM2/6/16
to
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> In article <dhmpof...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>> >>
>> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>> >
>> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>>
>> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
>> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
>> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
>> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
>> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
>> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
>> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
>> welcome it.
>
> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
>
> most people add a case anyway, which makes the
> 5s with a case as big or even bigger than a 6.
That line can't fly because they add a case to the 6 too.
> <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> >>> personally, at this point i wouldn't go lower than a 6.
>> >>
>> >> Well, that's your decision. Me, I don't want such a large phone.
>> >
>> > the 6 is only slightly bigger than the 5 series, at just 8.6mm wider &
>> > 14.3mm longer, while 0.7 thinner.
>>
>> That's big enough to make a difference to me. The iPhone 4 was the
>> perfect size for one-handed use, and the iPhone 5 made sacrifices in
>> that area but is still just usable. The size of the 6 equates to even
>> more sacrifices for those folks who like to use their phone with one
>> hand - sacrifices I'm unwilling to make, which is why I am still using
>> an iPhone 5. Personally, I'll welcome a smaller sized phone update with
>> open arms. I know there are many more people out there who will also
>> welcome it.
>
> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
>
> most people add a case anyway, which makes the
> 5s with a case as big or even bigger than a 6.
Patty Winter
Feb 6, 2016, 5:15:02 PM2/6/16
to
In article <dhmufv...@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>On 2016-02-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
>
>On 2016-02-06, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> the difference is a fraction of an inch and barely noticeable.
>
>That is irrelevant regarding the usability issue inherent with larger
>screen sizes. What may be negligible to some people is a show stopper
>for others, due to individual hand sizes and usage preferences.
If "nospam" is a man, he likely has noticeably larger hands that I do.
>screen sizes. What may be negligible to some people is a show stopper
>for others, due to individual hand sizes and usage preferences.
Also, I have a small pouch-style wallet I take to the gym so I don't
have to lock up my whole purse. My older iPod touch fits nicely in that,
but looking at Apple's website, the only iPhone that would is the 5s.
There's a possibility that a friend will soon be upgrading her iPhone
and will either sell me her existing one at a low price or give it to
me outright. I'm pretty sure it's a 5, but if it's a 6, then I'll get
a new wallet for the gym, deal with any hand-size issues, and be grate-
ful for not having had to spend $450 on a phone. But my preference is
still for a 5. It's a good size for my needs.
Patty
Patty Winter
Feb 6, 2016, 5:25:02 PM2/6/16
to
In article <n94pf8$g65$1...@dont-email.me>,
M. John Matlaw <mjoh...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
>plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
>the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
>That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
>month though I'm not streaming video much.
AT&T has an easy-to-use (and presumably fairly accurate) data-usage
>>
>Couple of things that nospam mostly mentioned. The T-Mobile $30/month
>plan is unlimited data but drops to something other than 4G speed after
>the first 5gb - http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/other-prepaid-plans .
>That's the plan I've got. I don't think I've used more than 2gb in a
>month though I'm not streaming video much.
calculator on its website:
http://www.att.com/att/datacalculator/
I played with that, guessing at how much more I'll probably do online
with a smartphone instead of just my 200MB/month free iPad data plan
from T-Mobile, and I came out with about 1.4GB/month. So the $40/month
AT&T prepaid plan with 2GB of data (any unused portion of which will
roll over for one month) looks pretty good for my needs.
Thanks for the link to the T-Mobile $30/plan. Interesting that they
don't feature those lower-cost plans on the main prepaid page. I might
want more than 100 minutes of talk, though, because part of the reason
for getting a new cellphone is to avoid toll-call charges on my landline.
>Also saw an ATT $30 a month unlimited talk/text 2gb data with rollover
>plan - https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/data-plans.html - but that
>might be a contract thing.
what AT&T is pushing these days. Since I won't be sharing the account
with anyone, having to pay $30/month plus a $25/month access charge
doesn't work out for me.
Patty
Jolly Roger
Feb 6, 2016, 5:36:43 PM2/6/16
to
bad, which is why so many still find them very useful - even desirable.
If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
for me.
JF Mezei
Feb 6, 2016, 7:46:15 PM2/6/16
to
On 2016-02-06 17:36, Jolly Roger wrote:
> If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
> I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
> rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
> for me.
March 15 is when it is launched, rumoured to be called the 5se
> If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
> I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
> rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
> for me.
Patty Winter
Feb 6, 2016, 7:55:04 PM2/6/16
to
In article <dhnarq...@mid.individual.net>,
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>On 2016-02-06, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>It's hard to beat free. : ) The iPhone 5s is stagnant, but not all that
>bad, which is why so many still find them very useful - even desirable.
Yeah, I'm sure it will be fine for me. It's new enough that I'll be
>
>It's hard to beat free. : ) The iPhone 5s is stagnant, but not all that
>bad, which is why so many still find them very useful - even desirable.
able to upgrade iOS for a while yet.
>If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
>I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
>rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
>for me.
a 5se if that's announced next month. But I think this person is going
for a 6, so she doesn't need to wait.
Patty
AV3
Feb 6, 2016, 9:57:19 PM2/6/16
to
there are more attractive offerings when iPhone 7 is announced might be
worth the time and money expenditure. Even a relatively new 5s would
face obsolescence a lot sooner than a suitable 7. And if there is
nothing attractive and/or worthwhile in 7, probably 5s would still be on
offer.
--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvi...@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
JF Mezei
Feb 7, 2016, 1:47:29 AM2/7/16
to
On 2016-02-06 21:57, AV3 wrote:
> I feel the same way about my iPhone 5, but I think waiting to see if
> there are more attractive offerings when iPhone 7 is announced might be
> worth the time and money expenditure.
Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more
> I feel the same way about my iPhone 5, but I think waiting to see if
> there are more attractive offerings when iPhone 7 is announced might be
> worth the time and money expenditure.
features. This makes it very hard for Apple to lower price when the 7
comes out.
Apple could make the 5se midrange (smaller 6s with 3d touch and taptic
engine, live view and other bells and whistles) putting the 6 as the low
end phone (despite being bigger screen).
Or Apple could make the 5se compatible with the 6 features (add
NFC/ApplePay to the 5s) and keep the 5se as the entry level phone.
Depending on where you live, you also have to worry about currency. The
rise of the USD has "forced" Apple to raise prices signifificantly in
many countries.
So in other countries than USA, the newly priced 5se may be
significantly more expensive than the 5s which may have had its price
not yet include full effect of USD rise.
Jolly Roger
Feb 7, 2016, 3:36:51 AM2/7/16
to
Rod Speed
Feb 7, 2016, 4:05:42 AM2/7/16
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> This makes it very hard for Apple to lower price when the 7 comes out.
They have one hell of a margin and can do that if they choose to.
> Apple could make the 5se midrange (smaller 6s with 3d touch
> and taptic engine, live view and other bells and whistles) putting
> the 6 as the low end phone (despite being bigger screen).
Or the 5se could be the low end model with the stuff like
3d touch and taptic engine so most apps support that stuff.
> Or Apple could make the 5se compatible with the 6 features (add
> NFC/ApplePay to the 5s) and keep the 5se as the entry level phone.
And I bet that is what they do.
> Depending on where you live, you also have to worry
> about currency. The rise of the USD has "forced" Apple
> to raise prices signifificantly in many countries.
But the price is still well below what many pay for a laptop.
> So in other countries than USA, the newly priced 5se
> may be significantly more expensive than the 5s
Or Apple may well decide to have an affordable
iphone at the low end as they normally do.
> which may have had its price not
> yet include full effect of USD rise.
And that may happen with the 5se too.
There is no reason why Apple has to have the same margin on all iphones.
> AV3 wrote
>> I feel the same way about my iPhone 5, but I think waiting
>> to see if there are more attractive offerings when iPhone 7
>> is announced might be worth the time and money expenditure.
> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more features.
Only with the top of the range new models.
>> I feel the same way about my iPhone 5, but I think waiting
>> to see if there are more attractive offerings when iPhone 7
>> is announced might be worth the time and money expenditure.
> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more features.
> This makes it very hard for Apple to lower price when the 7 comes out.
> Apple could make the 5se midrange (smaller 6s with 3d touch
> and taptic engine, live view and other bells and whistles) putting
> the 6 as the low end phone (despite being bigger screen).
3d touch and taptic engine so most apps support that stuff.
> Or Apple could make the 5se compatible with the 6 features (add
> NFC/ApplePay to the 5s) and keep the 5se as the entry level phone.
> Depending on where you live, you also have to worry
> about currency. The rise of the USD has "forced" Apple
> to raise prices signifificantly in many countries.
> So in other countries than USA, the newly priced 5se
> may be significantly more expensive than the 5s
iphone at the low end as they normally do.
> which may have had its price not
> yet include full effect of USD rise.
There is no reason why Apple has to have the same margin on all iphones.
Lewis
Feb 7, 2016, 9:59:03 AM2/7/16
to
In message <dhoe12...@mid.individual.net>
not to the level of confirmed-by-Apple-sending-invitations fact.
Too many people have confirmed the March 15th date for me to doubt it is
the intended date.
I am interested in the iPad Air 3.
--
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F16
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-02-06 17:36, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>> If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
>>> I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
>>> rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
>>> for me.
>>
>> March 15 is when it is launched, rumoured to be called the 5se
> That's one rumor, yes.
I think at this point we can treat it as somewhere well above rumor but
> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 2016-02-06 17:36, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>
>>> If I were in the market for a new phone to replace my aging iPhone 5,
>>> I'd wait to see what Apple announces in the next few months. If the
>>> rumors are true, an updated small form factor phone would be just right
>>> for me.
>>
>> March 15 is when it is launched, rumoured to be called the 5se
> That's one rumor, yes.
not to the level of confirmed-by-Apple-sending-invitations fact.
Too many people have confirmed the March 15th date for me to doubt it is
the intended date.
I am interested in the iPad Air 3.
--
I WILL NOT SELL LAND IN FLORIDA Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F16
Jolly Roger
Feb 7, 2016, 11:25:34 AM2/7/16
to
JF Mezei
Feb 7, 2016, 5:18:28 PM2/7/16
to
On 2016-02-07 04:05, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more features.
>
> Only with the top of the range new models.
Except for the 5c, Apple never introduced a NEW low end model. New
>> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more features.
>
> Only with the top of the range new models.
phones were always the high end, relegating the older existing phones as
low end.
Building a "cheap" phone like the 5C didn't seem to be a great endeavour
for Apple. It would still be more expensive than competitor's cheap phones.
My *guess* is that the 5se will have feature parity with 6s, but with
smaller form factor which is a market Apple realised is still big enough
to warrant serving.
WHile 5se will be cheaper than the 6s this march it isn't clear to me
how Apple will position it against the 6 which has fewer features,
slower CPU etc.
And by fall, when the 7 and 7+ are launched, the 5se becomes an "older
generation" phone, and if Apple ditches the 6 to make the 6s the lower
end, then the 5se becomes the most affordable phone (parity of featuires
with 6s but smaller screen)
In 2017, what is possible is that the iphone 8 will come out in 3 sizes
and Apple may then keep the 7 and 5se as low end.
> They have one hell of a margin and can do that if they choose to.
currency fluctuations, they decided to maintain margin instead of volume.
Also, as you recall, when the 5c came out, the Wall Street Casino
Analysts complained that it may drive Apple's margins down. Apple
unfortunatly can't ignore this. It has duty to shareholders to make
profits on its phones, the biggest part of the business.
Smasung , Xaomi, LG, Huawei don't have as much pressure to generate
profits from their handset business.
While 66% of its sales ate outside the USA, one would have to break that
down betwene countries whose currency dropped a lot and countries whose
currency remained stable or dropped just a bit. If most sales come from
coutries whose currency was more or less stable, then Apple has less of
a need to try to cut the retail price.
And if the iPhone is too expensive in Canada, they will just have lower
sales without much a huge impact on worldwide sales.
> But the price is still well below what many pay for a laptop.
problem because as phone prices rise, people will want to keep phones
for 3 years instead of 2 and this greatly affects sales in established
markets. This is why raising the phone prices too much has negative
consequences.
> There is no reason why Apple has to have the same margin on all iphones.
because Apple may be reaching the limits of how expensive a phone can
be, it may not be able to increase the high end phone margins to
compensate for lower low-end phone margins.
nospam
Feb 7, 2016, 5:26:07 PM2/7/16
to
In article <56b7c2b3$0$9118$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
historically, apple has 3 tiers: the new model, last year's model and
the 2 year old model.
the iphone 5 would have moved to mid-tier when the 5s came out, except
that apple decided to jazz it up and came out with the 5c, which was an
iphone 5 in a colourful shell. the iphone 5 was discontinued.
Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Except for the 5c, Apple never introduced a NEW low end model. New
> phones were always the high end, relegating the older existing phones as
> low end.
the 5c was not a low end model.
> Except for the 5c, Apple never introduced a NEW low end model. New
> phones were always the high end, relegating the older existing phones as
> low end.
historically, apple has 3 tiers: the new model, last year's model and
the 2 year old model.
the iphone 5 would have moved to mid-tier when the 5s came out, except
that apple decided to jazz it up and came out with the 5c, which was an
iphone 5 in a colourful shell. the iphone 5 was discontinued.
Rod Speed
Feb 7, 2016, 7:15:15 PM2/7/16
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
>>> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more
>>> features.
>> Only with the top of the range new models.
> Except for the 5c, Apple never introduced a NEW low end model.
Which just happens to be the only non top of the range model introduced NEW.
> New phones were always the high end, relegating
> the older existing phones as low end.
And the 5se may well be another like the 5c.
> Building a "cheap" phone like the 5C didn't
> seem to be a great endeavour for Apple.
Apple clearly feels otherwise given that
they are about to do it again with the 5se,
> It would still be more expensive than competitor's cheap phones.
Apple has never given a damn about their competitor's cheap
phones and has chosen to not bother with that end of the market.
They have in fact sold plenty of the low end iphones that they they
choose to continue to sell when they offer new high end models.
> My *guess* is that the 5se will have feature parity with 6s,
Or it might not have quite such a fancy camera...
> but with smaller form factor which is a market Apple
> realised is still big enough to warrant serving.
I bet its not identical to a 6s in all but size.
> WHile 5se will be cheaper than the 6s this march
Particularly if its not identical to a 6s in all but size.
> it isn't clear to me how Apple will position it against
> the 6 which has fewer features, slower CPU etc.
It remains to be seen how long they keep selling the 6 for.
> And by fall, when the 7 and 7+ are launched,
> the 5se becomes an "older generation" phone,
Apple has always continued to sell those.
> and if Apple ditches the 6 to make the 6s the lower
> end, then the 5se becomes the most affordable
> phone (parity of featuires with 6s but smaller screen)
I find it hard to believe it will be identical to the 6s in
all but size. IMO it makes more sense to have not such
a fancy camera given that that camera isnt that cheap
and that there are plenty that don’t need such a fancy
camera and would prefer a lower price.
> In 2017, what is possible is that the iphone 8 will come out
> in 3 sizes and Apple may then keep the 7 and 5se as low end.
Time will tell.
>> They have one hell of a margin and can do that if they choose to.
> The Apple financial telecomference made it pretty clear that with
> currency fluctuations, they decided to maintain margin instead of volume.
But that isnt necessarily true with the low end model.
> Also, as you recall, when the 5c came out, the Wall Street Casino
> Analysts complained that it may drive Apple's margins down.
And they got that wrong, as usual.
> Apple unfortunatly can't ignore this.
Corse they can.
> It has duty to shareholders to make profits on its phones,
No one is saying that they should make a loss on the 5se.
REDUCED margins isnt a loss.
> the biggest part of the business.
Still is even if they choose to REDUCE the margin on their low end iphone.
> Smasung , Xaomi, LG, Huawei don't have as much
> pressure to generate profits from their handset business.
But have a much bigger problem that their
margins on their other stuff is much worse
than Apple gets on their high end iphones.
> While 66% of its sales ate outside the USA, one would have to break
> that down betwene countries whose currency dropped a lot and
> countries whose currency remained stable or dropped just a bit.
There arent actually that many of the last, really only
China because its currency is loosely locked to the USD,
at least with countrys that matter to Apple sales wise.
> If most sales come from coutries whose
> currency was more or less stable,
It doesn’t.
> then Apple has less of a need to try to cut the retail price.
And when it doesn’t, it does.
> And if the iPhone is too expensive in Canada,
It isnt, you watch.
> they will just have lower sales without
> much a huge impact on worldwide sales.
Not if most of the non US countrys also see a similar result.
>> But the price is still well below what many pay for a laptop.
> People tend to keep laptops for far longer than a phone.
But FAR more see the price of the phone hidden
because they get the phone with their cell contract.
> And this is a problem because as phone prices rise, people
> will want to keep phones for 3 years instead of 2
Not those who get their phones on contract.
The percentage who buy their phone outright for cash is quite low.
> and this greatly affects sales in established markets.
No it does not when most don’t pay cash for the phone up front.
> This is why raising the phone prices too much has negative consequences.
In practice it doesn’t, essentially because most don’t buy their
phone for cash up front. And even with those who do, the price
paid for a top of the range iphone is still perfectly affordable
by most, even in most first world countrys outside the US.
>> There is no reason why Apple has to have the same margin on all iphones.
> Analysts only see the average margin.
Analysts are completely irrelevant.
> So the above is correct. However, because Apple may
> be reaching the limits of how expensive a phone can be,
Like hell it is. Plenty spend a lot more on a laptop
and that isnt hidden in the phone contract.
> it may not be able to increase the high end phone margins
> to compensate for lower low-end phone margins.
Apple doesn’t need to do that either. They are free
to reduce the margin on their low end iphones and
make up for that in the volume of those they sell.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
>>> Apple's pattern has been to make each new model loaded with more
>>> features.
>> Only with the top of the range new models.
> Except for the 5c, Apple never introduced a NEW low end model.
> New phones were always the high end, relegating
> the older existing phones as low end.
> Building a "cheap" phone like the 5C didn't
> seem to be a great endeavour for Apple.
they are about to do it again with the 5se,
> It would still be more expensive than competitor's cheap phones.
phones and has chosen to not bother with that end of the market.
They have in fact sold plenty of the low end iphones that they they
choose to continue to sell when they offer new high end models.
> My *guess* is that the 5se will have feature parity with 6s,
> but with smaller form factor which is a market Apple
> realised is still big enough to warrant serving.
> WHile 5se will be cheaper than the 6s this march
> it isn't clear to me how Apple will position it against
> the 6 which has fewer features, slower CPU etc.
> And by fall, when the 7 and 7+ are launched,
> the 5se becomes an "older generation" phone,
> and if Apple ditches the 6 to make the 6s the lower
> end, then the 5se becomes the most affordable
> phone (parity of featuires with 6s but smaller screen)
all but size. IMO it makes more sense to have not such
a fancy camera given that that camera isnt that cheap
and that there are plenty that don’t need such a fancy
camera and would prefer a lower price.
> In 2017, what is possible is that the iphone 8 will come out
> in 3 sizes and Apple may then keep the 7 and 5se as low end.
>> They have one hell of a margin and can do that if they choose to.
> The Apple financial telecomference made it pretty clear that with
> currency fluctuations, they decided to maintain margin instead of volume.
> Also, as you recall, when the 5c came out, the Wall Street Casino
> Analysts complained that it may drive Apple's margins down.
> Apple unfortunatly can't ignore this.
> It has duty to shareholders to make profits on its phones,
REDUCED margins isnt a loss.
> the biggest part of the business.
> Smasung , Xaomi, LG, Huawei don't have as much
> pressure to generate profits from their handset business.
margins on their other stuff is much worse
than Apple gets on their high end iphones.
> While 66% of its sales ate outside the USA, one would have to break
> that down betwene countries whose currency dropped a lot and
> countries whose currency remained stable or dropped just a bit.
China because its currency is loosely locked to the USD,
at least with countrys that matter to Apple sales wise.
> If most sales come from coutries whose
> currency was more or less stable,
> then Apple has less of a need to try to cut the retail price.
> And if the iPhone is too expensive in Canada,
> they will just have lower sales without
> much a huge impact on worldwide sales.
>> But the price is still well below what many pay for a laptop.
> People tend to keep laptops for far longer than a phone.
because they get the phone with their cell contract.
> And this is a problem because as phone prices rise, people
> will want to keep phones for 3 years instead of 2
The percentage who buy their phone outright for cash is quite low.
> and this greatly affects sales in established markets.
> This is why raising the phone prices too much has negative consequences.
phone for cash up front. And even with those who do, the price
paid for a top of the range iphone is still perfectly affordable
by most, even in most first world countrys outside the US.
>> There is no reason why Apple has to have the same margin on all iphones.
> Analysts only see the average margin.
> So the above is correct. However, because Apple may
> be reaching the limits of how expensive a phone can be,
and that isnt hidden in the phone contract.
> it may not be able to increase the high end phone margins
> to compensate for lower low-end phone margins.
to reduce the margin on their low end iphones and
make up for that in the volume of those they sell.
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