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Fully discharged battery once a month?
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Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 8:05:17 AM7/27/13
to
When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how far
does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have to
watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level, what
level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have to
watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level, what
level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
Pat
Jul 27, 2013, 8:35:42 AM7/27/13
to
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:05:17 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Where does Apple say such a thing? That was good advice years ago
with older battery technologies but not with today's batteries.
wrote:
with older battery technologies but not with today's batteries.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 8:37:30 AM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month,
No it does not.
> how far does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point,
Yes.
> or do I have to watch the battery level, or what?
What. Don't do that at all.
> When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month,
> how far does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point,
> or do I have to watch the battery level, or what?
Message has been deleted
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 10:21:05 AM7/27/13
to
In article <8qd7v8p1e95fdketv...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
don't bother. lithium ion batteries have a limited capacity and a
discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
use the phone normally and don't worry about it.
all that fully discharging does is recalibrate the battery indicator
that the phone thinks it has, so if you think it's not accurate, let it
run down in normal use (i.e., use it for a couple of days w/o charging
it) and then fully charge it. it's unlikely you will need to do this
more than once or twice a year, if that.
the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
use the phone normally and don't worry about it.
all that fully discharging does is recalibrate the battery indicator
that the phone thinks it has, so if you think it's not accurate, let it
run down in normal use (i.e., use it for a couple of days w/o charging
it) and then fully charge it. it's unlikely you will need to do this
more than once or twice a year, if that.
the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 10:21:07 AM7/27/13
to
In article <michelle-72BDD3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
non-stop, as some people do with laptops. for a phone, that's highly
unlikely to happen.
charge cycles waste the battery. the only time they're needed is to
recalibrate the battery level.
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
non-stop, as some people do with laptops. for a phone, that's highly
unlikely to happen.
charge cycles waste the battery. the only time they're needed is to
recalibrate the battery level.
Message has been deleted
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 11:37:42 AM7/27/13
to
In article <michelle-6048E7...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
they said the same for laptops. it's still not needed.
keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery life
because they benefit from selling you a replacement. batteries are
considered 'consumable items' and only replaced if defective (although
sometimes they make exceptions).
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> > > <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> > > "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> > > the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> > > charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> > > running it down)."
> >
> > that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
> > non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>
> If that's what they meant, that's what they would have said. I doubt that
> > > <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> > > "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> > > the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> > > charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> > > running it down)."
> >
> > that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
> > non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>
> anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
they said the same for laptops. it's still not needed.
keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery life
because they benefit from selling you a replacement. batteries are
considered 'consumable items' and only replaced if defective (although
sometimes they make exceptions).
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 12:06:24 PM7/27/13
to
Pat writes:
> Where does Apple say such a thing? That was good advice years ago
> with older battery technologies but not with today's batteries.
http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html
> Where does Apple say such a thing? That was good advice years ago
> with older battery technologies but not with today's batteries.
Last paragraph. I've seen similar advice elsewhere. But with batteries it's
hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 12:06:49 PM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 12:07:25 PM7/27/13
to
Michelle Steiner writes:
> That's what I thought, but Apple actually does say that:
> That's what I thought, but Apple actually does say that:
>
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
So is this reliable advice, or obsolete, or just battery mythology?
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 12:09:24 PM7/27/13
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nospam writes:
> the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
> keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
Interesting ... where did you see the 5-year figure? Apple seems to only say
> the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
> keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
that it still works at 80% after 400 charge cycles (which apparently means
only complete discharges and recharges, not small "topping off" charges).
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 12:22:06 PM7/27/13
to
In article <o3s7v85ac6e90airq...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
somewhere at apple's site but i can't seem to find it right now.
400 cycles is a little more than a year with daily full cycles, which
almost nobody does. that means most people will easily get 2-3 years
and have 80% left, so 5 years is not unreasonable overall lifetime.
it's also a guide, so some might get a bit less and others might get a
bit more.
400 cycles is a little more than a year with daily full cycles, which
almost nobody does. that means most people will easily get 2-3 years
and have 80% left, so 5 years is not unreasonable overall lifetime.
it's also a guide, so some might get a bit less and others might get a
bit more.
JF Mezei
Jul 27, 2013, 1:29:31 PM7/27/13
to
prevents that (full discharge damages battery permanently).
2- Lithium ion batteries do not need to be discharged at regular
intervals. But it is good now and then to run the device to the ground
to calculate its babttery autonomy (and there is some circuitry inside
which re-evaluate charging process to better show % of battery remaining)
Both the iPhone and Laptops will eventually shutdown on their own. The
Laptop will give final warning and then same memory to disk before
shutting down. When you power on, the system is restored to its full
state before shutdown.
For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
JF Mezei
Jul 27, 2013, 1:33:22 PM7/27/13
to
chemicals starts to lose effectiveness. So apart from charge/discharge
cycles, batteries age over time, and apparently, this becomes very
noticeable after 2 years. My laptop (2009) has shorter battery autonomy
these days compared to when I bought it. But my iPhone4 (2010) is still OK.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 2:21:47 PM7/27/13
to
In article <michelle-3ED73D...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> It is in their best interest to extend battery life because if the iPhone
> gets the reputation of requiring battery replacements too often, sales of
> the iPhone will suffer.
>
> The short-term myopic view is not to extend battery life so you can sell
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
it's a balance (and is part of how a battery charger is designed), but
at the end of the day, a replacement battery is another sale. iphones
are already selling like crazy.
> gets the reputation of requiring battery replacements too often, sales of
> the iPhone will suffer.
>
> The short-term myopic view is not to extend battery life so you can sell
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
it's a balance (and is part of how a battery charger is designed), but
at the end of the day, a replacement battery is another sale. iphones
are already selling like crazy.
Wayne C. Morris
Jul 27, 2013, 3:55:20 PM7/27/13
to
In article <270720131021059603%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
> don't bother. lithium ion batteries have a limited capacity and a
> discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
Nonsense. It's only wasted if you purposely configure your iPhone to drain the
battery faster without doing anything useful, instead of just using it normally
-- unless your idea of "normal" means using the iPhone only when it's plugged
into a charger.
Partial charges count proportionately towards the battery's charge/discharge
limit. If you use the device until it's at 50%, charge it to 100%, use it some
more until it's at 50% again, then charge it back to 100%, that counts as 1
cycle from the battery's limit. If you use the device twice as long, so it's
almost at 0 before you recharge it, that's also 1 cycle; there's no waste
because you've gotten just as many hours of use out of that cycle as you did
from the two half-cycles.
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <8qd7v8p1e95fdketv...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
> <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how far
> > does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have
> > to watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level,
> > what level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
The advice I've read is to recharge it to 100%, use it normally until it's below
> In article <8qd7v8p1e95fdketv...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
> <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how far
> > does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have
> > to watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level,
> > what level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
> don't bother. lithium ion batteries have a limited capacity and a
> discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
battery faster without doing anything useful, instead of just using it normally
-- unless your idea of "normal" means using the iPhone only when it's plugged
into a charger.
Partial charges count proportionately towards the battery's charge/discharge
limit. If you use the device until it's at 50%, charge it to 100%, use it some
more until it's at 50% again, then charge it back to 100%, that counts as 1
cycle from the battery's limit. If you use the device twice as long, so it's
almost at 0 before you recharge it, that's also 1 cycle; there's no waste
because you've gotten just as many hours of use out of that cycle as you did
from the two half-cycles.
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 4:23:17 PM7/27/13
to
nospam writes:
> it's a balance (and is part of how a battery charger is designed), but
> at the end of the day, a replacement battery is another sale.
What percentage of iPhones actually have their batteries replaced at some
> it's a balance (and is part of how a battery charger is designed), but
> at the end of the day, a replacement battery is another sale.
point?
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 4:23:40 PM7/27/13
to
Michelle Steiner writes:
> You'll have to ask Apple; they wrote it.
They don't build the batteries, though.
> You'll have to ask Apple; they wrote it.
They don't build the batteries, though.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 4:35:13 PM7/27/13
to
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month,
>> No it does not.
wrong.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month,
>> No it does not.
> That's what I thought, but Apple actually does say that:
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least
> one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
Damn, I did read that and didn't notice that stupidity. It's just plain
> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to keep
> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least
> one
> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
> running it down)."
wrong.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 4:41:25 PM7/27/13
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> what they really mean is don't leave it plugged
> in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
I doubt that is what they really mean, essentially because as you
say next, its very very unlikely to happen with many phones and
if that's what you wanted to say, you wouldn't say it like that.
And it works fine with well designed laptops.
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote
>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to
>> keep
>> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least
>> one
>> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
>> running it down)."
> that's unnecessary.
Yes, and pointless too.
>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important to
>> keep
>> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least
>> one
>> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
>> running it down)."
> that's unnecessary.
> what they really mean is don't leave it plugged
> in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
say next, its very very unlikely to happen with many phones and
if that's what you wanted to say, you wouldn't say it like that.
And it works fine with well designed laptops.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 4:51:19 PM7/27/13
to
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it's important
that they would have phrased it as badly as that,
particularly with an operation like Apple. It looks
much more like someone who doesn't have a
clue about the technical basics has just copied
that over from much older technology and no one
has noticed, or the other reason for doing that,
recalibrating the battery meter has got deleted.
> I doubt that anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
Some might, particularly those who don't have a landline phone
at all and are just using it as a fixed phone replacement. Particularly
with the phones that can be put in a charging system like cordless
phones can when they are not actually being used.
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it's important
>>> to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through
>>> at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100%
>>> and then completely running it down)."
>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it
>> plugged in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>>> at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100%
>>> and then completely running it down)."
>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it
>> plugged in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
> If that's what they meant, that's what they would have said.
Yeah, and its very unlikely that if they meant to say
that they would have phrased it as badly as that,
particularly with an operation like Apple. It looks
much more like someone who doesn't have a
clue about the technical basics has just copied
that over from much older technology and no one
has noticed, or the other reason for doing that,
recalibrating the battery meter has got deleted.
> I doubt that anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
at all and are just using it as a fixed phone replacement. Particularly
with the phones that can be put in a charging system like cordless
phones can when they are not actually being used.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 4:54:49 PM7/27/13
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
because that is the only mention of it in any of the iphone
documentation that I could find. If they wanted you to
deliberately use up the battery it would be in the user
manual so that more see it there. It isnt.
> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote
>>>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important
>>>> to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through
>>>> at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100%
>>>> and then completely running it down)."
>>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it
>>> plugged in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>> If that's what they meant, that's what they would have said.
>> I doubt that anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
> they said the same for laptops. it's still not needed.
> keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery
> life because they benefit from selling you a replacement.
I don't believe that that is the reason its there, essentially
>>>> <http://www.apple.com/batteries/iphone.html>
>>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it零 important
>>>> to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through
>>>> at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100%
>>>> and then completely running it down)."
>>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it
>>> plugged in non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>> If that's what they meant, that's what they would have said.
>> I doubt that anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
> they said the same for laptops. it's still not needed.
> keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery
> life because they benefit from selling you a replacement.
because that is the only mention of it in any of the iphone
documentation that I could find. If they wanted you to
deliberately use up the battery it would be in the user
manual so that more see it there. It isnt.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 4:57:47 PM7/27/13
to
"Michelle Steiner" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-3F960B...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <41s7v8t6s15achfmm...@4ax.com>,
> You'll have to ask Apple;
No you don't, just someone who understands the technology or wikipedia etc.
> they wrote it.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 5:01:39 PM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Pat wrote
Yeah, there is a lot of mindless copying of the prescriptions
that did make sense with older technology batterys to newer
ones where it doesn't anymore.
The other obvious example is with the claim that its absolutely
essential to fully charge any battery powered system before you
use it to get the best battery life.
> Pat wrote
that did make sense with older technology batterys to newer
ones where it doesn't anymore.
The other obvious example is with the claim that its absolutely
essential to fully charge any battery powered system before you
use it to get the best battery life.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 5:04:06 PM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> nospam wrote
I've never noticed Apple saying even what
percentage they change themselves and they
have no way of knowing how many are charged
by others, particularly with the older iphones.
> nospam wrote
percentage they change themselves and they
have no way of knowing how many are charged
by others, particularly with the older iphones.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 5:39:19 PM7/27/13
to
> thing is to calibrate the device's state of charge reporting, but in the
> iPod section, they repeat what's in the iPhone section.
Yeah, looks like someone stuffed up that editing into the various subgroups.
> After reviewing the articles and the discussion here, I have to
> agree with whoever said that there's no need to fully charge and
> completely discharge the battery in order to maintain its life.
Yeah that last made any sense with NiCads.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 5:41:47 PM7/27/13
to
>>> I doubt that anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
>> Some might, particularly those who don't have a landline phone
>> at all and are just using it as a fixed phone replacement. Particularly
>> with the phones that can be put in a charging system like cordless
>> phones can when they are not actually being used.
> That's assuming that they don't use it like a cordless phone when at
>> Some might, particularly those who don't have a landline phone
>> at all and are just using it as a fixed phone replacement. Particularly
>> with the phones that can be put in a charging system like cordless
>> phones can when they are not actually being used.
> home and always leave it at home when going out of their home.
Yes, but there are sure to be some like that.
Plenty do leave their cordless phones plugged into
the charger all the time they aren't actually talking on it.
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 6:31:24 PM7/27/13
to
Rod Speed writes:
> The other obvious example is with the claim that its absolutely
> essential to fully charge any battery powered system before you
> use it to get the best battery life.
I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
> The other obvious example is with the claim that its absolutely
> essential to fully charge any battery powered system before you
> use it to get the best battery life.
The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 6:32:14 PM7/27/13
to
Michelle Steiner writes:
> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007; I've never
> had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've never had one for more
> than 2 1/2 years.
That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be able to use a phone for more than
2.5 years (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and I've used cell
phones for much longer than that).
> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007; I've never
> had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've never had one for more
> than 2 1/2 years.
That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be able to use a phone for more than
2.5 years (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and I've used cell
phones for much longer than that).
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 6:35:37 PM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The other obvious example is with the claim that its
>> absolutely essential to fully charge any battery powered
>> system before you use it to get the best battery life.
> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75%
> charged.
I wasn't, because I understand how that battery technology works.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> The other obvious example is with the claim that its
>> absolutely essential to fully charge any battery powered
>> system before you use it to get the best battery life.
> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75%
> charged.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 6:38:28 PM7/27/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Michelle Steiner wrote
>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
Yeah, me too.
> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
Yeah, me too.
That's always been one thing I don't like about
the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
I bought one anyway, mainly because they are
much more polished designs than the androids.
> Michelle Steiner wrote
>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
That's always been one thing I don't like about
the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
I bought one anyway, mainly because they are
much more polished designs than the androids.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 6:45:58 PM7/27/13
to
In article
<wayne.morris-994B...@news.eternal-september.org>, Wayne
> > don't bother. lithium ion batteries have a limited capacity and a
> > discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
>
> Nonsense. It's only wasted if you purposely configure your iPhone to drain
> the battery faster without doing anything useful, instead of just using it normally
> -- unless your idea of "normal" means using the iPhone only when it's plugged
> into a charger.
it's not nonsense. batteries have a fixed life. if you cycle charge it
you are wasting cycles for no good reason.
if you're out and it runs down, that's fine. intentionally draining it
is dumb.
> Partial charges count proportionately towards the battery's charge/discharge
> limit. If you use the device until it's at 50%, charge it to 100%, use it some
> more until it's at 50% again, then charge it back to 100%, that counts as 1
> cycle from the battery's limit. If you use the device twice as long, so it's
> almost at 0 before you recharge it, that's also 1 cycle; there's no waste
> because you've gotten just as many hours of use out of that cycle as you did
> from the two half-cycles.
that's correct.
<wayne.morris-994B...@news.eternal-september.org>, Wayne
C. Morris <wayne....@this.is.invalid> wrote:
> > > When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how
> > > far does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I
> > > have to watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery
> > > level, what level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
>
> The advice I've read is to recharge it to 100%, use it normally until it's
> below 20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
where did you read that???
> > > When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how
> > > far does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I
> > > have to watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery
> > > level, what level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
>
> The advice I've read is to recharge it to 100%, use it normally until it's
> below 20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
> > don't bother. lithium ion batteries have a limited capacity and a
> > discharge cycle only serves to waste it.
>
> Nonsense. It's only wasted if you purposely configure your iPhone to drain
> the battery faster without doing anything useful, instead of just using it normally
> -- unless your idea of "normal" means using the iPhone only when it's plugged
> into a charger.
you are wasting cycles for no good reason.
if you're out and it runs down, that's fine. intentionally draining it
is dumb.
> Partial charges count proportionately towards the battery's charge/discharge
> limit. If you use the device until it's at 50%, charge it to 100%, use it some
> more until it's at 50% again, then charge it back to 100%, that counts as 1
> cycle from the battery's limit. If you use the device twice as long, so it's
> almost at 0 before you recharge it, that's also 1 cycle; there's no waste
> because you've gotten just as many hours of use out of that cycle as you did
> from the two half-cycles.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 6:46:00 PM7/27/13
to
In article <t0b8v8hosmd85b1ok...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
ask apple, but why does that matter?
if *your* phone needs a battery replacement, then get it replaced. if
it happens under warranty, it's free. they do it while you wait too.
if *your* phone needs a battery replacement, then get it replaced. if
it happens under warranty, it's free. they do it while you wait too.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 6:46:01 PM7/27/13
to
In article <2gi8v8d47m63cd5jc...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
shipped with ~50-75% charge.
shipped with ~50-75% charge.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 6:46:02 PM7/27/13
to
In article <8ii8v8h32m8gj4ap8...@4ax.com>, Mxsmanic
you can use it as long as you want, but you won't be able to run the
latest apps or take advantage of new features in the new os or with new
hardware.
latest apps or take advantage of new features in the new os or with new
hardware.
nospam
Jul 27, 2013, 6:46:03 PM7/27/13
to
In article <b5j0fm...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
phone instead, especially when it's subsidized and costs little to
nothing.
free new phone or $50-100 for a battery...tough choice.
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's always been one thing I don't like about
> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
most people don't ever replace their battery. they end up getting a new
> That's always been one thing I don't like about
> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
phone instead, especially when it's subsidized and costs little to
nothing.
free new phone or $50-100 for a battery...tough choice.
Rod Speed
Jul 27, 2013, 7:27:44 PM7/27/13
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> they end up getting a new phone instead, especially
> when it's subsidized and costs little to nothing.
I don't buy phones like that. And they cost a hell of a lot
in the fees you pay. I'm not stupid enough to do that.
> free new phone
Its never free.
> or $50-100 for a battery...tough choice.
None of the batterys for my previous phones
cost anything like that. Try a few dollars.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> most people don't ever replace their battery.
Sure, but I'm not most people.
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> most people don't ever replace their battery.
> they end up getting a new phone instead, especially
> when it's subsidized and costs little to nothing.
in the fees you pay. I'm not stupid enough to do that.
> free new phone
Its never free.
> or $50-100 for a battery...tough choice.
cost anything like that. Try a few dollars.
Mxsmanic
Jul 27, 2013, 8:13:04 PM7/27/13
to
nospam writes:
> most people don't ever replace their battery. they end up getting a new
> phone instead, especially when it's subsidized and costs little to
> nothing.
I prefer to buy a phone without the extra encumberment of a subsidy.
> most people don't ever replace their battery. they end up getting a new
> phone instead, especially when it's subsidized and costs little to
> nothing.
Message has been deleted
xfile
Jul 27, 2013, 8:59:05 PM7/27/13
to
> The short-term myopic view is not to extend battery life so you can sell
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
I fully agree with you and that's the different mentality between a
higher-end brand and the rest.
One would never want to get additional sales by jeopardizing the core
product, because durability has always been one critical element to
distinguish a higher-end and the rest, and should strive to come up
additional sales from other areas, and in this case, - Apple Store in one.
On 7/28/2013 02:18, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <270720131137425472%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> gets the reputation of requiring battery replacements too often, sales of
> the iPhone will suffer.
>
> The short-term myopic view is not to extend battery life so you can sell
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
>
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
I fully agree with you and that's the different mentality between a
higher-end brand and the rest.
One would never want to get additional sales by jeopardizing the core
product, because durability has always been one critical element to
distinguish a higher-end and the rest, and should strive to come up
additional sales from other areas, and in this case, - Apple Store in one.
On 7/28/2013 02:18, Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <270720131137425472%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery life
>> because they benefit from selling you a replacement. batteries are
>
>> keep in mind it's not in their best interest to extend the battery life
>> considered 'consumable items' and only replaced if defective (although
>> sometimes they make exceptions).
>
> It is in their best interest to extend battery life because if the iPhone
>> sometimes they make exceptions).
>
> gets the reputation of requiring battery replacements too often, sales of
> the iPhone will suffer.
>
> The short-term myopic view is not to extend battery life so you can sell
> more batteries; the long-term view is to extend battery life so you can
> sell more iPhones to more people.
>
xfile
Jul 27, 2013, 9:35:14 PM7/27/13
to
> They don't build the batteries, though.
Apple is no different than any other finished product providers in the
sense that Apple has the obligations to provide correct instructions
about how to use their products.
Any questions about any component should ask the final finished
product/service provider. Who build the components doesn't matter, and
it's who sells and provides the integrated and finished piece.
Again, that's why the majority of consumers buy finished products, and
don't build their own houses, cars, computers, and just about everything
in our life. They don't want to deal with every piece of components
involved.
On 7/28/2013 04:23, Mxsmanic wrote:
> Michelle Steiner writes:
>
>> You'll have to ask Apple; they wrote it.
>
> They don't build the batteries, though.
>
Leonard Blaisdell
Jul 28, 2013, 12:09:13 AM7/28/13
to
> That's always been one thing I don't like about
> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
The battery in the iPhone4 is dirt easy to replace with
> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
<http://www.ifixit.com/iPhone-Parts/iPhone-4-Replacement-Battery/IF182-00
0>. You even get a OEM battery. The exchange isn't expensive and could
probably be done on your lap if the screws weren't so teeny tiny. There
are some great free videos available to help you along. I'm unfamiliar
with replacing the battery on any other iPhone, but the 4 is easy.
iPhones are worth far more after the carrier contract expires than most
people think they are.
leo
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 12:57:52 AM7/28/13
to
On 07-27-2013 11:20, Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it¹s important to keep
can't quote exactly, obviously) that unlike older technology (NiCd ?),
iPhone batteries do not lose the ability to access all of their charge
if you keep them charged all the time. Instead, too much charging and
discharging accelerates their demise. It will take about a thousand
full discharge/charge cycles or two thousand half-cycles to "wear them
out" to the 80% level. So keep them charged as much as possible, but
occasionally, say once a month, give them a full workout.
Which you can do by leaving it on until it shuts down on its own, then
plug it in.
But really, if you do the FULL cycle every day, it will still take three
years to get to that 80% point. If you're like most people,
you'll have bought a replacement before then anyway.
And if you're like me, it will be broken or stolen before then. :-)
--
Wes Groleau
“There are more people worthy of blame
than there is blame to go around."
>>> "For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it¹s important to keep
>>> the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one
>>> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
>>> running it down)."
>>
>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
>> non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>
> If that's what they meant, that's what they would have said. I doubt that
>>> charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely
>>> running it down)."
>>
>> that's unnecessary. what they really mean is don't leave it plugged in
>> non-stop, as some people do with laptops.
>
> anyone leaves any cell phone plugged in non-stop.
No, it's not what they meant. An older version of the page suggested (I
can't quote exactly, obviously) that unlike older technology (NiCd ?),
iPhone batteries do not lose the ability to access all of their charge
if you keep them charged all the time. Instead, too much charging and
discharging accelerates their demise. It will take about a thousand
full discharge/charge cycles or two thousand half-cycles to "wear them
out" to the 80% level. So keep them charged as much as possible, but
occasionally, say once a month, give them a full workout.
Which you can do by leaving it on until it shuts down on its own, then
plug it in.
But really, if you do the FULL cycle every day, it will still take three
years to get to that 80% point. If you're like most people,
you'll have bought a replacement before then anyway.
And if you're like me, it will be broken or stolen before then. :-)
--
Wes Groleau
“There are more people worthy of blame
than there is blame to go around."
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 1:04:47 AM7/28/13
to
>>> So is this reliable advice, or obsolete, or just battery mythology?
>
>> You'll have to ask Apple;
>
> No you don't, just someone who understands the technology or wikipedia etc.
If it were bad advice, the Apple-haters would be gleefully pointing it
>
>> You'll have to ask Apple;
>
> No you don't, just someone who understands the technology or wikipedia etc.
out. In fact, I sort of surprised some of them aren't claiming it's bad
advice anyway.
--
Wes Groleau
“To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying
Amen to what the world tells you you should prefer,
is to have kept your soul alive.”
— Robert Louis Stevenson
Rod Speed
Jul 28, 2013, 1:05:20 AM7/28/13
to
Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
removable batterys do it on the case opening alone.
> You even get a OEM battery. The exchange isn't expensive
Sure, but Nokia batterys are much cheaper,
essentially because there are so few different ones.
> and could probably be done on your lap if the screws weren't so teeny
> tiny. There are some great free videos available to help you along.
Yeah, but you don’t need anything with phones with replaceable batterys.
> I'm unfamiliar with replacing the battery on any other iPhone,
> but the 4 is easy. iPhones are worth far more after the carrier
> contract expires than most people think they are.
Yeah, that’s very striking.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> The battery in the iPhone4 is dirt easy to replace with
> <http://www.ifixit.com/iPhone-Parts/iPhone-4-Replacement-Battery/IF182-000>.
Sure but I much prefer the way the phones with
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> The battery in the iPhone4 is dirt easy to replace with
> <http://www.ifixit.com/iPhone-Parts/iPhone-4-Replacement-Battery/IF182-000>.
removable batterys do it on the case opening alone.
> You even get a OEM battery. The exchange isn't expensive
essentially because there are so few different ones.
> and could probably be done on your lap if the screws weren't so teeny
> tiny. There are some great free videos available to help you along.
> I'm unfamiliar with replacing the battery on any other iPhone,
> but the 4 is easy. iPhones are worth far more after the carrier
> contract expires than most people think they are.
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 1:06:04 AM7/28/13
to
On 07-27-2013 10:21, nospam wrote:
> the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
> keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
The web page used to say one thousand full charge/discharge cycles.
--
Wes Groleau
What kind of smiley is C:\ ?
> the battery is rated to last 5 years, which is longer than most people
> keep their phones. worst case, you have the battery replaced.
The web page used to say one thousand full charge/discharge cycles.
--
Wes Groleau
What kind of smiley is C:\ ?
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 1:08:21 AM7/28/13
to
On 07-27-2013 12:09, Mxsmanic wrote:
> Interesting ... where did you see the 5-year figure? Apple seems to only say
> that it still works at 80% after 400 charge cycles (which apparently means
> only complete discharges and recharges, not small "topping off" charges).
Ouch. Four hundred! Last time I saw that page, it was a thousand.
Or maybe I'm confusing it with some other battery. And it had extra
text saying that half a cycle twice has approximately the same effect as
a full cycle.
--
Wes Groleau
Change is inevitable.
Liberals need to learn that “inevitable" is not a synonym for “good."
Conservatives should learn that “inevitable" is not a synonym for “bad.”
> Interesting ... where did you see the 5-year figure? Apple seems to only say
> that it still works at 80% after 400 charge cycles (which apparently means
> only complete discharges and recharges, not small "topping off" charges).
Ouch. Four hundred! Last time I saw that page, it was a thousand.
Or maybe I'm confusing it with some other battery. And it had extra
text saying that half a cycle twice has approximately the same effect as
a full cycle.
--
Wes Groleau
Change is inevitable.
Liberals need to learn that “inevitable" is not a synonym for “good."
Conservatives should learn that “inevitable" is not a synonym for “bad.”
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 1:10:19 AM7/28/13
to
On 07-27-2013 15:55, Wayne C. Morris wrote:
> The advice I've read is to recharge it to 100%, use it normally until it's below
> 20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
You did not read that on Apple's site,
> The advice I've read is to recharge it to 100%, use it normally until it's below
> 20%, then recharge it to 100% again before using it.
unless it was more than two years ago.
--
Wes Groleau
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you
what can't be done and why. Then do it.
— Robert A. Heinlein
Wes Groleau
Jul 28, 2013, 1:11:44 AM7/28/13
to
On 07-27-2013 13:29, JF Mezei wrote:
> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
--
Wes Groleau
“What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing;
it also depends on what kind of person you are.”
-- C.S.Lewis
> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
--
Wes Groleau
“What you see and hear depends a good deal on where you are standing;
it also depends on what kind of person you are.”
-- C.S.Lewis
Rod Speed
Jul 28, 2013, 2:07:19 AM7/28/13
to
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote
>>>> So is this reliable advice, or obsolete, or just battery mythology?
>>> You'll have to ask Apple;
>> No you don't, just someone who understands the technology or wikipedia
>> etc.
> If it were bad advice,
It is.
> the Apple-haters would be gleefully pointing it out.
I doubt any of them are bothering with this thread.
> In fact, I sort of surprised some of them aren't claiming it's bad advice
> anyway.
See above.
>>>> So is this reliable advice, or obsolete, or just battery mythology?
>>> You'll have to ask Apple;
>> No you don't, just someone who understands the technology or wikipedia
>> etc.
> If it were bad advice,
> the Apple-haters would be gleefully pointing it out.
> In fact, I sort of surprised some of them aren't claiming it's bad advice
> anyway.
Rod Speed
Jul 28, 2013, 2:09:10 AM7/28/13
to
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote
> JF Mezei wrote
>> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
> How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
That’s not the final shutdown.
>> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
> How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
Mxsmanic
Jul 28, 2013, 2:19:23 AM7/28/13
to
Wes Groleau writes:
> The web page used to say one thousand full charge/discharge cycles.
I believe the 1000 figure was given for the iPad, not the iPhone.
> The web page used to say one thousand full charge/discharge cycles.
JF Mezei
Jul 28, 2013, 2:55:56 AM7/28/13
to
On 13-07-28 01:11, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 07-27-2013 13:29, JF Mezei wrote:
>> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
>
> How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
Oh, you get those warnings. And you get warnings now and then below
> On 07-27-2013 13:29, JF Mezei wrote:
>> For the iPhone, the final shutdown happens without warning.
>
> How did you manage to turn off the 20% and 10% warnings?
10%. But no "this is your final warning, shutting down in 60 seconds"
type of warning.
This happened to me at the most odd time. I was walking back from the
copy shop with my presentation due the next day against Bell Canada at
the CRTC. I walked past 160 Elgin , where Bell Canada's 10,000
regulatory lawyers work and decided to take a picture of the lobby for a
funny tweet.
As I got close to the building and raised my phone to take a picture, it
shut down without warning.
So when I did plug it back in, I tweeted that bell Canada had managed to
remotely shut down my iPhone to prevent me from taking a picture of
their lobby :-)
I knew my batteries were low. But as I said, there was no final warning.
Now, while walking back fro that place, when I tried to power the iPhone
back, I did get the red "empty battery" logo on the screen and realised
what had happened.
Ant
Jul 28, 2013, 12:41:40 PM7/28/13
to
On 7/27/2013 3:46 PM PT, nospam typed:
>> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
>> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
>> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
>
> nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
> shipped with ~50-75% charge.
Why is that? Why not near 100%? Unless they have been not used for so long.
--
"Whoops, there goes another ambulance ant." --Seymour and Pepe (Rick
Moranis episode from The Muppets)
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
>> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
>> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
>> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
>
> nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
> shipped with ~50-75% charge.
--
"Whoops, there goes another ambulance ant." --Seymour and Pepe (Rick
Moranis episode from The Muppets)
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
nospam
Jul 28, 2013, 1:01:14 PM7/28/13
to
In article <RqmdnTujqO1Z1GjM...@earthlink.com>, Ant
unknown how long a new product will sit on a shelf, although with
iphones it's fairly short.
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> >> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
> >> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
> >> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
> >
> > nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
> > shipped with ~50-75% charge.
>
> Why is that? Why not near 100%? Unless they have been not used for so long.
it's best for the battery to be stored at a partial charge. it's
> >> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
> >> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
> >> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
> >
> > nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
> > shipped with ~50-75% charge.
>
> Why is that? Why not near 100%? Unless they have been not used for so long.
unknown how long a new product will sit on a shelf, although with
iphones it's fairly short.
Chris Blunt
Jul 28, 2013, 6:29:17 PM7/28/13
to
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:38:28 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>
>>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
>
>> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
>> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
>
>Yeah, me too.
>
>> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
>> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
>
>Yeah, me too.
>
>That's always been one thing I don't like about
>the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
That deterred me from buying an iPhone for a while, but when I thought
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>
>>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
>
>> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
>> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
>
>Yeah, me too.
>
>> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
>> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
>
>Yeah, me too.
>
>That's always been one thing I don't like about
>the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
about it more I realised I had only ever had to replace a battery in a
phone once in all the phones I had ever owned. I have had to replace
parts like displays and keyboards far more often.
Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that difficult
to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour, or you can take it
to a store to have it don't for you. For something that's only likely
to have to be done once in the life of the phone it's not a big deal
really.
Chris
Rod Speed
Jul 28, 2013, 6:35:47 PM7/28/13
to
Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote
because the battery had dies, but I have replaced a couple of
them with higher capacity batterys, one each in a cellphone
and a laptop.
And have got replacement batterys for quite a few other
people for both sorts of devices.
And I only buy cordless phones that use standard
AA batterys and have changed some of those too.
> I have had to replace parts like displays and keyboards far more often.
I haven't had to do either, but have had
to open one phone to fix a problem.
> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
> difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour,
Sure, but it takes only seconds with a user replaceable battery.
> or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
I've always preferred to do that sort of thing myself.
> For something that's only likely to have to be done
> once in the life of the phone it's not a big deal really.
Sure, that's why I bought the iphone anyway.
And the tablet that doesn't have a user replaceable battery either.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>>>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>>>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>>>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
>>> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
>>> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
>> Yeah, me too.
>>> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
>>> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
>> Yeah, me too.
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> That deterred me from buying an iPhone for a while, but when
> I thought about it more I realised I had only ever had to replace
> a battery in a phone once in all the phones I had ever owned.
I have never done it either with any cellphone or even laptop
>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Michelle Steiner wrote
>>>> I got my first cell phone in 1997, and my first iPhone in 2007;
>>>> I've never had to replace a battery in any of them. But I've
>>>> never had one for more than 2 1/2 years.
>>> That's reassuring, although I'd hope to be
>>> able to use a phone for more than 2.5 years
>> Yeah, me too.
>>> (I certainly use desktops for longer than that, and
>>> I've used cell phones for much longer than that).
>> Yeah, me too.
>> That's always been one thing I don't like about
>> the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
> That deterred me from buying an iPhone for a while, but when
> I thought about it more I realised I had only ever had to replace
> a battery in a phone once in all the phones I had ever owned.
because the battery had dies, but I have replaced a couple of
them with higher capacity batterys, one each in a cellphone
and a laptop.
And have got replacement batterys for quite a few other
people for both sorts of devices.
And I only buy cordless phones that use standard
AA batterys and have changed some of those too.
> I have had to replace parts like displays and keyboards far more often.
to open one phone to fix a problem.
> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
> difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour,
> or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
> For something that's only likely to have to be done
> once in the life of the phone it's not a big deal really.
And the tablet that doesn't have a user replaceable battery either.
nospam
Jul 28, 2013, 9:58:42 PM7/28/13
to
In article <t16bv8dveccgfl5ks...@4ax.com>, Chris Blunt
a thinner and more reliable phone has continuous benefit, whereas an
easily removable battery helps once or maybe twice in its lifetime.
plus, it's something that can break, such as with the original motorola
droid, where the battery cover would often pop off. verizon's fix was a
verizon sticker.
<http://www.ubergizmo.com/2009/12/band-aid-for-your-motorola-droid-batte
ry-cover/>
and it's not only iphones that have internal batteries. quite a few
android phones do too.
<http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57367017-251/its-time-to-kiss-that-
removable-smartphone-battery-goodbye/>
<ma...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >That's always been one thing I don't like about
> >the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
>
> That deterred me from buying an iPhone for a while, but when I thought
> about it more I realised I had only ever had to replace a battery in a
> phone once in all the phones I had ever owned. I have had to replace
> parts like displays and keyboards far more often.
>
> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that difficult
> to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour, or you can take it
> to a store to have it don't for you. For something that's only likely
> to have to be done once in the life of the phone it's not a big deal
> really.
exactly the reason.
> >That's always been one thing I don't like about
> >the iphone, the battery isnt user replaceable.
>
> That deterred me from buying an iPhone for a while, but when I thought
> about it more I realised I had only ever had to replace a battery in a
> phone once in all the phones I had ever owned. I have had to replace
> parts like displays and keyboards far more often.
>
> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that difficult
> to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour, or you can take it
> to a store to have it don't for you. For something that's only likely
> to have to be done once in the life of the phone it's not a big deal
> really.
a thinner and more reliable phone has continuous benefit, whereas an
easily removable battery helps once or maybe twice in its lifetime.
plus, it's something that can break, such as with the original motorola
droid, where the battery cover would often pop off. verizon's fix was a
verizon sticker.
<http://www.ubergizmo.com/2009/12/band-aid-for-your-motorola-droid-batte
ry-cover/>
and it's not only iphones that have internal batteries. quite a few
android phones do too.
<http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57367017-251/its-time-to-kiss-that-
removable-smartphone-battery-goodbye/>
Rod Speed
Jul 28, 2013, 10:40:13 PM7/28/13
to
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:280720132158428292%nos...@nospam.invalid...
> <http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57367017-251/its-time-to-kiss-that-
> removable-smartphone-battery-goodbye/>
Leonard Blaisdell
Jul 30, 2013, 1:39:06 AM7/30/13
to
In article <b5lkmt...@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote
> > Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
> > difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour
When I was a young man, it was considered important that all male kids
be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car. Otherwise, we
might have to thumb it on the side of the highway. There was heavy
grease and swearing involved. Knuckles got barked. The whole operation
took about an hour if you knew what you were doing. I did that sorry
task yearly. Electronic ignition has saved two generations of young men
(so far) from that task. In a way, it's a tragedy.
> > or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
> I've always preferred to do that sort of thing myself.
I now use tiny tools on a clean desk instead of a 3/4-inch wrench in the
driveway. Electronics are complicated for me. Replacing defective boards
and batterys in electronics hasn't been so far.
leo
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote
> > Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
> > difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour
be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car. Otherwise, we
might have to thumb it on the side of the highway. There was heavy
grease and swearing involved. Knuckles got barked. The whole operation
took about an hour if you knew what you were doing. I did that sorry
task yearly. Electronic ignition has saved two generations of young men
(so far) from that task. In a way, it's a tragedy.
> > or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
> I've always preferred to do that sort of thing myself.
driveway. Electronics are complicated for me. Replacing defective boards
and batterys in electronics hasn't been so far.
leo
Rod Speed
Jul 30, 2013, 3:29:25 AM7/30/13
to
Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> Otherwise, we might have to thumb it on the
> side of the highway. There was heavy grease
Never had any of that myself with changing those.
> and swearing involved.
Not much of that either.
> Knuckles got barked.
Not doing those.
> The whole operation took about an hour if you knew what you were doing.
Not for just changing the plugs. Most didn’t change the others routinely.
> I did that sorry task yearly.
I never did with changing the points and the condenser.
> Electronic ignition has saved two generations
> of young men (so far) from that task.
Yes.
> In a way, it's a tragedy.
No.
>>> or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
>> I've always preferred to do that sort of thing myself.
> I now use tiny tools on a clean desk instead
> of a 3/4-inch wrench in the driveway.
I always did both.
> Electronics are complicated for me.
Not for me, but then I have been doing it for more than 55 years now.
> Replacing defective boards and batterys in electronics hasn't been so far.
I've done a hell of a lot of design work over the years, both hardware and
software.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
>>> difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour
> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all male
> kids be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car.
That’s rather over stated on the all male kids.
>> Chris Blunt <ma...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Given the correct set of screwdrivers its actually not that
>>> difficult to replace an iPhone battery in about half an hour
> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all male
> kids be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car.
> Otherwise, we might have to thumb it on the
> side of the highway. There was heavy grease
> and swearing involved.
Not much of that either.
> Knuckles got barked.
Not doing those.
> The whole operation took about an hour if you knew what you were doing.
> I did that sorry task yearly.
> Electronic ignition has saved two generations
> of young men (so far) from that task.
> In a way, it's a tragedy.
>>> or you can take it to a store to have it don't for you.
>> I've always preferred to do that sort of thing myself.
> I now use tiny tools on a clean desk instead
> of a 3/4-inch wrench in the driveway.
> Electronics are complicated for me.
> Replacing defective boards and batterys in electronics hasn't been so far.
software.
Wes Groleau
Jul 30, 2013, 8:36:23 PM7/30/13
to
On 07-30-2013 03:29, Rod Speed wrote:
> Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
to figure out why we had only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8
hidden under the alternator, which had to be removed to get the spark
plug out!
1966 Rambler Ambassador.
> Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>> The whole operation took about an hour if you knew what you were doing.
>
> Not for just changing the plugs. Most didn’t change the others routinely.
Depends on the model. my father and I spent five or ten minutes trying
>
> Not for just changing the plugs. Most didn’t change the others routinely.
to figure out why we had only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8
hidden under the alternator, which had to be removed to get the spark
plug out!
1966 Rambler Ambassador.
Rod Speed
Jul 30, 2013, 8:55:22 PM7/30/13
to
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote
> my father and I spent five or ten minutes trying to figure out why we had
> only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8 hidden under the alternator,
> which had to be removed to get the spark plug out!
Sure, but even then, it still wouldn’t take an hour once you had done it the
first time.
> 1966 Rambler Ambassador.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>>> The whole operation took about an hour if you knew what you were doing.
>> Not for just changing the plugs. Most didn’t change the others routinely.
> Depends on the model.
Not if you knew what you were doing it didn’t.
>> Leonard Blaisdell <leobla...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>>> The whole operation took about an hour if you knew what you were doing.
>> Not for just changing the plugs. Most didn’t change the others routinely.
> Depends on the model.
> my father and I spent five or ten minutes trying to figure out why we had
> only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8 hidden under the alternator,
> which had to be removed to get the spark plug out!
first time.
> 1966 Rambler Ambassador.
Mxsmanic
Jul 30, 2013, 11:01:34 PM7/30/13
to
Leonard Blaisdell writes:
> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all male kids
> be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car. Otherwise, we
> might have to thumb it on the side of the highway.
What did young women do?
> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all male kids
> be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car. Otherwise, we
> might have to thumb it on the side of the highway.
I never even opened the hood of my car. If it stopped working, I had a
mechanic look at it. I was not interested in getting dirty with car
maintenance. Cars have always been nothing more than transportation to me.
Rod Speed
Jul 30, 2013, 11:54:25 PM7/30/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Leonard Blaisdell wrote
>> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all
>> male kids be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car.
>> Otherwise, we might have to thumb it on the side of the highway.
> What did young women do?
A few of them did too.
> I never even opened the hood of my car.
Yes, there were always a few like that, a tiny minority tho.
> If it stopped working, I had a mechanic look at it. I was
> not interested in getting dirty with car maintenance. Cars
> have always been nothing more than transportation to me.
That's not the case with many males.
We already know you are a freak.
> Leonard Blaisdell wrote
>> When I was a young man, it was considered important that all
>> male kids be able to replace "plugs, points and condenser" in a car.
>> Otherwise, we might have to thumb it on the side of the highway.
> What did young women do?
> I never even opened the hood of my car.
> If it stopped working, I had a mechanic look at it. I was
> not interested in getting dirty with car maintenance. Cars
> have always been nothing more than transportation to me.
We already know you are a freak.
Mxsmanic
Jul 31, 2013, 2:35:55 PM7/31/13
to
Rod Speed writes:
> We already know you are a freak.
But I'm not mean.
> We already know you are a freak.
News
Jul 31, 2013, 3:28:14 PM7/31/13
to
Rod Speed
Jul 31, 2013, 3:52:38 PM7/31/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> We already know you are a freak.
> But I'm not mean.
You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> We already know you are a freak.
> But I'm not mean.
Doug Anderson
Jul 31, 2013, 3:57:47 PM7/31/13
to
Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean. He/she may be ignorant,
misguided, naive, pig-headed or many other things. But s/he hasn't
been insulting people or calling them names or anything else mean.
Rod Speed
Jul 31, 2013, 5:50:31 PM7/31/13
to
Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
I was referring to mean in the sense
of stingy, tight with his money etc there.
> He/she may be ignorant, misguided,
> naive, pig-headed or many other things.
No maybe about it with any of those.
> But s/he hasn't been insulting people
Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose
to always have the latest high end smartphone.
> or calling them names
He just did above. And he also did
when he called them geeks too.
> or anything else mean.
Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose
to always have the latest high end smartphone.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> We already know you are a freak.
>>> But I'm not mean.
>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
> Why bother with the vitriol?
There is no vitriol there.
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> We already know you are a freak.
>>> But I'm not mean.
>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
> Why bother with the vitriol?
> Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
of stingy, tight with his money etc there.
> He/she may be ignorant, misguided,
> naive, pig-headed or many other things.
> But s/he hasn't been insulting people
to always have the latest high end smartphone.
> or calling them names
He just did above. And he also did
when he called them geeks too.
> or anything else mean.
Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose
to always have the latest high end smartphone.
Doug Anderson
Jul 31, 2013, 8:25:59 PM7/31/13
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> writes:
> Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> Rod Speed wrote
>
> >>>> We already know you are a freak.
>
> >>> But I'm not mean.
>
> >> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>
> > Why bother with the vitriol?
>
> There is no vitriol there.
> > Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
>
> I was referring to mean in the sense of stingy, tight with his money
> etc there.
You have no idea if s/he is stingy though.
> Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> Rod Speed wrote
>
> >>>> We already know you are a freak.
>
> >>> But I'm not mean.
>
> >> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>
> > Why bother with the vitriol?
>
> There is no vitriol there.
> > Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
>
> I was referring to mean in the sense of stingy, tight with his money
> etc there.
> > He/she may be ignorant, misguided, naive, pig-headed or many other
> > things.
>
> No maybe about it with any of those.
> > But s/he hasn't been insulting people
>
> Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose to always have the
> latest high end smartphone.
> > or calling them names
>
> He just did above. And he also did when he called them geeks too.
> > or anything else mean.
>
> Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose to always have the
> latest high end smartphone.
Calling someone a freak is an insult. Saying that their motivations
are psychological, not practical, might be wrong, but isn't an
insult.
Rod Speed
Jul 31, 2013, 9:38:40 PM7/31/13
to
Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> We already know you are a freak.
>>>>> But I'm not mean.
>>>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>>> Why bother with the vitriol?
>> There is no vitriol there.
>>> Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
>> I was referring to mean in the sense of
>> stingy, tight with his money etc there.
> You have no idea if s/he is stingy though.
Yes I do, he said that himself in one of his posts.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> We already know you are a freak.
>>>>> But I'm not mean.
>>>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>>> Why bother with the vitriol?
>> There is no vitriol there.
>>> Mxsmanic hasn't done anything mean.
>> I was referring to mean in the sense of
>> stingy, tight with his money etc there.
> You have no idea if s/he is stingy though.
>>> He/she may be ignorant, misguided,
>>> naive, pig-headed or many other things.
>> No maybe about it with any of those.
>>> But s/he hasn't been insulting people
>> Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose
>> to always have the latest high end smartphone.
>>> or calling them names
>> He just did above. And he also did when he called them geeks too.
>>> or anything else mean.
>> Yes he did, most obviously with those who choose
>> to always have the latest high end smartphone.
> Um. You are very sensitive if you consider _that_ to be an insult.
that it clearly is calling someone names.
> Calling someone a freak is an insult.
> Saying that their motivations are psychological,
> not practical, might be wrong, but isn't an insult.
And saying someone is mean is clearly intended
to be an insult anyway if he didn't mean stingy etc.
Mxsmanic
Jul 31, 2013, 10:24:36 PM7/31/13
to
Rod Speed writes:
> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
It's impossible to be mean to inanimate objects.
> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
News
Jul 31, 2013, 10:35:51 PM7/31/13
to
Rod Speed
Jul 31, 2013, 11:06:59 PM7/31/13
to
>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
> It's impossible to be mean to inanimate objects.
Wrong. It is perfectly possible to throw them against
> It's impossible to be mean to inanimate objects.
the wall, stomp on them, drive over them deliberately,
etc etc etc if by mean you mean nasty, cruel etc.
Mxsmanic
Aug 1, 2013, 1:11:45 PM8/1/13
to
Rod Speed writes:
> Wrong. It is perfectly possible to throw them against
> the wall, stomp on them, drive over them deliberately,
> etc etc etc if by mean you mean nasty, cruel etc.
Only conscious entities can be affected by nastiness or cruelty.
> Wrong. It is perfectly possible to throw them against
> the wall, stomp on them, drive over them deliberately,
> etc etc etc if by mean you mean nasty, cruel etc.
News
Aug 1, 2013, 1:16:30 PM8/1/13
to
How many "times less" is that?
JF Mezei
Aug 1, 2013, 3:37:35 PM8/1/13
to
So yesterday, I fully discharged my ..... iPhone4...
Cycled to Qu�bec City. And like last year, it appears that as I pass
through an area (probably weak coverage), the phone drains at higher
rate. However, this year, I was able to make it to Qu�bec City with
about 20% left. (last year, it drained about 2/3 of the way and
completely shut off).
So I put the phone in airline mode and was able to listen to music for
about 3 hours on the bus. Arriving back in montreal, I figured I would
enable cellular and tweet a "arrived in montreal, about do no midnight
bike ride through montreal to get home", but alas, as I turned it on, it
shut down within seconds... So i had good timing since I at least got
music on the long bus ride back.
And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery gets
to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts down and
doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown since there are
few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
Once home, I plugged it back in to recharge.
Cycled to Qu�bec City. And like last year, it appears that as I pass
through an area (probably weak coverage), the phone drains at higher
rate. However, this year, I was able to make it to Qu�bec City with
about 20% left. (last year, it drained about 2/3 of the way and
completely shut off).
So I put the phone in airline mode and was able to listen to music for
about 3 hours on the bus. Arriving back in montreal, I figured I would
enable cellular and tweet a "arrived in montreal, about do no midnight
bike ride through montreal to get home", but alas, as I turned it on, it
shut down within seconds... So i had good timing since I at least got
music on the long bus ride back.
And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery gets
to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts down and
doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown since there are
few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
Once home, I plugged it back in to recharge.
Rod Speed
Aug 1, 2013, 4:15:34 PM8/1/13
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> So yesterday, I fully discharged my ..... iPhone4...
> Cycled to Qu�bec City. And like last year, it appears that as I pass
> through an area (probably weak coverage), the phone drains at
> higher rate. However, this year, I was able to make it to Qu�bec
> City with about 20% left. (last year, it drained about 2/3 of the
> way and completely shut off).
> So I put the phone in airline mode and was able
> to listen to music for about 3 hours on the bus.
I prefer to listen to podcasts of my favorite radio programs myself.
And I prefer podcasts to listening to the radio live,
because I separate myself entirely from when they
choose to broadcast what I am interested in.
One of the real advantages of a smartphone
over a phone with just a media player IMO.
> Arriving back in montreal, I figured I would enable
> cellular and tweet a "arrived in montreal, about do
> no midnight bike ride through montreal to get home",
Just like a teenager would do... |-)
> but alas, as I turned it on, it shut down within seconds... So i had
> good timing since I at least got music on the long bus ride back.
> And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
> warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery
> gets to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts
> down and doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown
> since there are few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
There is no reason why it can't do that shutdown a tad earlier
while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
> So yesterday, I fully discharged my ..... iPhone4...
> Cycled to Qu�bec City. And like last year, it appears that as I pass
> through an area (probably weak coverage), the phone drains at
> higher rate. However, this year, I was able to make it to Qu�bec
> City with about 20% left. (last year, it drained about 2/3 of the
> way and completely shut off).
> So I put the phone in airline mode and was able
> to listen to music for about 3 hours on the bus.
And I prefer podcasts to listening to the radio live,
because I separate myself entirely from when they
choose to broadcast what I am interested in.
One of the real advantages of a smartphone
over a phone with just a media player IMO.
> Arriving back in montreal, I figured I would enable
> cellular and tweet a "arrived in montreal, about do
> no midnight bike ride through montreal to get home",
> but alas, as I turned it on, it shut down within seconds... So i had
> good timing since I at least got music on the long bus ride back.
> And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
> warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery
> gets to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts
> down and doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown
> since there are few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
Rod Speed
Aug 1, 2013, 4:18:06 PM8/1/13
to
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>>> It's impossible to be mean to inanimate objects.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> You clearly are with what you choose to buy gadgets wise.
>>> It's impossible to be mean to inanimate objects.
Don't be TOO surprised when they just laugh in your face like we do.
JF Mezei
Aug 1, 2013, 4:30:14 PM8/1/13
to
On 13-08-01 16:15, Rod Speed wrote:
> There is no reason why it can't do that shutdown a tad earlier
> while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
Thinking about it:
> There is no reason why it can't do that shutdown a tad earlier
> while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
final warning should stated "will shutdown once batteries dip below x%",
no more warnings will be issued".
(I believe it is 7&).
Leonard Blaisdell
Aug 1, 2013, 6:24:51 PM8/1/13
to
In article <kt9lqa$2mk$1...@dont-email.me>,
closest to the firewall. This car took well over an hour for one man to
change the plugs. Chevy mechanics probably had a trick to speed things
up, but the compressor had to be moved out of the way, regardless.
leo
Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> Depends on the model. my father and I spent five or ten minutes trying
> to figure out why we had only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8
> hidden under the alternator, which had to be removed to get the spark
> plug out!
>
> 1966 Rambler Ambassador.
1968 396 Camaro with the A/C compressor sitting over one of the plugs
> Depends on the model. my father and I spent five or ten minutes trying
> to figure out why we had only seven spark plugs. Finally found #8
> hidden under the alternator, which had to be removed to get the spark
> plug out!
>
> 1966 Rambler Ambassador.
closest to the firewall. This car took well over an hour for one man to
change the plugs. Chevy mechanics probably had a trick to speed things
up, but the compressor had to be moved out of the way, regardless.
leo
Rod Speed
Aug 1, 2013, 6:26:31 PM8/1/13
to
JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote
> final warning should stated "will shutdown once batteries
> dip below x%", no more warnings will be issued".
I still think it makes sense to warn just before turning it off,
so even the most stupid person or someone who was not
holding the phone at the time of the earlier warnings is
aware that the shutdown is deliberate and not just a fault.
> (I believe it is 7&).
I think I have got well below that myself.
> Rod Speed wrote
>> There is no reason why it can't do that shutdown a tad
>> earlier while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
> Thinking about it:
Too radical...
>> There is no reason why it can't do that shutdown a tad
>> earlier while there is still time to warn about the shutdown.
> Thinking about it:
> final warning should stated "will shutdown once batteries
> dip below x%", no more warnings will be issued".
so even the most stupid person or someone who was not
holding the phone at the time of the earlier warnings is
aware that the shutdown is deliberate and not just a fault.
> (I believe it is 7&).
Message has been deleted
Mxsmanic
Aug 1, 2013, 7:11:32 PM8/1/13
to
JF Mezei writes:
> And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
> warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery gets
> to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts down and
> doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown since there are
> few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
My phone was down to 7% a few days ago, after almost three days without a
> And no, it did not warn about shutting down. It just did. (I adid get
> warnings about battery low before). My guess is that when battery gets
> to a certain level, it just saves everything to flash and shuts down and
> doesn't take the time to warn about impending shutdown since there are
> few previous mAh left in batteries to waste any time.
recharge, but I recharged it before it shut down on its own. I did get a
couple of warnings starting at 20%.
Mxsmanic
Aug 1, 2013, 7:12:59 PM8/1/13
to
Lewis writes:
> I've have my iphone 4S at 1% more than once.
Keep in mind that 1% of the actual charge left in the battery and 1% from the
standpoint of the phone may be two different things. The phone is designed not
to literally discharge the battery completely, since that could damage it.
> I've have my iphone 4S at 1% more than once.
Keep in mind that 1% of the actual charge left in the battery and 1% from the
standpoint of the phone may be two different things. The phone is designed not
to literally discharge the battery completely, since that could damage it.
DevilsPGD
Aug 2, 2013, 1:58:17 AM8/2/13
to
In the last episode of <280720131301143416%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> said:
>In article <RqmdnTujqO1Z1GjM...@earthlink.com>, Ant
><a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> >> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
>> >> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
>> >> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
>> >
>> > nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
>> > shipped with ~50-75% charge.
>>
>> Why is that? Why not near 100%? Unless they have been not used for so long.
>
>it's best for the battery to be stored at a partial charge. it's
>unknown how long a new product will sit on a shelf, although with
>iphones it's fairly short.
On the shelf, you can mostly count on the date being relatively short.
But some people don't open or use the device right away, oddly enough.
--
The nice thing about standards, there is enough for everyone to have their own.
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> said:
>In article <RqmdnTujqO1Z1GjM...@earthlink.com>, Ant
><a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>
>> >> I was surprised when I got my iPhone that it was already about 75% charged.
>> >> The Apple Store activated it for me and when I asked if it needed to be
>> >> charged up first, they said "Oh no, it's already charged out of the box."
>> >
>> > nothing surprising about that. lithium ion batteries are generally
>> > shipped with ~50-75% charge.
>>
>> Why is that? Why not near 100%? Unless they have been not used for so long.
>
>it's best for the battery to be stored at a partial charge. it's
>unknown how long a new product will sit on a shelf, although with
>iphones it's fairly short.
On the shelf, you can mostly count on the date being relatively short.
But some people don't open or use the device right away, oddly enough.
--
The nice thing about standards, there is enough for everyone to have their own.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu
Aug 3, 2013, 5:02:56 PM8/3/13
to
Jim Higgins <ILi...@Privacy.invalid> writes:
> Turn on the % charge indicator and try it with the iPhone using the
> Apple-suppplied charger. The phone will reach 100% charge. Leave
> it on charge and come back a long while later and it will be below
> 100%. It will continue to drop until I don't know when because I
> haven't tested that and don't plan to. Perhaps it resumes charging
> at some point, perhaps not. In any case, it seems to protect itself
> to some degree against chronic overcharge.
I'm not sure how much time you mean by "a long while later", but if I
leave *my* iPhone (4S) plugged in after it reaches 100% charge, it
stays at 100% indefinitely. It doesn't drop in the next 12 hours
(about the longest I leave it plugged in) and probably never would
drop. I'm using Apple chargers.
Martin
> Turn on the % charge indicator and try it with the iPhone using the
> Apple-suppplied charger. The phone will reach 100% charge. Leave
> it on charge and come back a long while later and it will be below
> 100%. It will continue to drop until I don't know when because I
> haven't tested that and don't plan to. Perhaps it resumes charging
> at some point, perhaps not. In any case, it seems to protect itself
> to some degree against chronic overcharge.
I'm not sure how much time you mean by "a long while later", but if I
leave *my* iPhone (4S) plugged in after it reaches 100% charge, it
stays at 100% indefinitely. It doesn't drop in the next 12 hours
(about the longest I leave it plugged in) and probably never would
drop. I'm using Apple chargers.
Martin
nospam
Aug 3, 2013, 6:51:07 PM8/3/13
to
In article <k5iqv8doijhuusu0n...@4ax.com>, Jim Higgins
macbook and powerbook.
what's happening is when the battery is fully charged, charging shuts
off (no surprise there). the battery then starts to discharge, either
from normal use or self-discharge, and when it reaches 95% or so,
charging resumes.
it's completely normal.
<ILi...@Privacy.invalid> wrote:
> Turn on the % charge indicator and try it with the iPhone using the
> Apple-suppplied charger. The phone will reach 100% charge. Leave it
> on charge and come back a long while later and it will be below 100%.
> It will continue to drop until I don't know when because I haven't
> tested that and don't plan to. Perhaps it resumes charging at some
> point, perhaps not. In any case, it seems to protect itself to some
> degree against chronic overcharge.
i've never seen that happen on an iphone but i have seen it on a
> Turn on the % charge indicator and try it with the iPhone using the
> Apple-suppplied charger. The phone will reach 100% charge. Leave it
> on charge and come back a long while later and it will be below 100%.
> It will continue to drop until I don't know when because I haven't
> tested that and don't plan to. Perhaps it resumes charging at some
> point, perhaps not. In any case, it seems to protect itself to some
> degree against chronic overcharge.
macbook and powerbook.
what's happening is when the battery is fully charged, charging shuts
off (no surprise there). the battery then starts to discharge, either
from normal use or self-discharge, and when it reaches 95% or so,
charging resumes.
it's completely normal.
nospam
Aug 3, 2013, 6:51:09 PM8/3/13
to
In article <kshqv8lmr1jdlu1ba...@4ax.com>, Jim Higgins
<ILi...@Privacy.invalid> wrote:
> >When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how far
> >does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have to
> >watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level, what
> >level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
>
> The advice to :"completely run it down" about once a month is
> misleading IMHO. "Completely" should be no lower than 20% remaining
> charge and I question the need for that other than MAYBE to reset the
> phone's charge reference point. I think software improvements long
> ago took care of any problems in that area.
that's false.
to calibrate the device, the battery should be run down until the
device shuts off, not 20%. that's how it can know what the actual
usable capacity of the battery is. stopping at 20% doesn't tell the
device anything.
note that the battery itself has protection circuitry, so you can't
actually discharge to 0%, which is a bad thing with li-ion batteries.
when it reports it's discharged, it's actually slightly higher than
fully discharged, although still not enough to run the device.
the goal of discharging it to calibrate it is so the device knows when
it will reach that point.
> The "run it down completely" myth began with the earlier versions of
> NiCd cells. It isn't necessary for current manufactured NiCd and
> definitely not for the Li-Ion cells in the iPhone.
it is for li-ion every once in a while. it definitely doesn't need to
be done once a month, however.
<ILi...@Privacy.invalid> wrote:
> >When Apple says I should fully discharge the battery once a month, how far
> >does that mean? Does the phone turn itself off at some point, or do I have to
> >watch the battery level, or what? If I have to watch the battery level, what
> >level corresponds to a "full discharge"?
>
> The advice to :"completely run it down" about once a month is
> misleading IMHO. "Completely" should be no lower than 20% remaining
> charge and I question the need for that other than MAYBE to reset the
> phone's charge reference point. I think software improvements long
> ago took care of any problems in that area.
that's false.
to calibrate the device, the battery should be run down until the
device shuts off, not 20%. that's how it can know what the actual
usable capacity of the battery is. stopping at 20% doesn't tell the
device anything.
note that the battery itself has protection circuitry, so you can't
actually discharge to 0%, which is a bad thing with li-ion batteries.
when it reports it's discharged, it's actually slightly higher than
fully discharged, although still not enough to run the device.
the goal of discharging it to calibrate it is so the device knows when
it will reach that point.
> The "run it down completely" myth began with the earlier versions of
> NiCd cells. It isn't necessary for current manufactured NiCd and
> definitely not for the Li-Ion cells in the iPhone.
it is for li-ion every once in a while. it definitely doesn't need to
be done once a month, however.
JF Mezei
Aug 3, 2013, 7:36:18 PM8/3/13
to
On 13-08-03 17:02, Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu wrote:
> drop. I'm using Apple chargers.
technmically, the charger is inside the iPhone (or any iToy), as is the
> drop. I'm using Apple chargers.
protective circuitry that is embedded inside the battery assembly.
The "charger" block that you plug into the mains is just a transformer
to provide 5vdc (USB voltage) and provides the correct resistance on the
2 data leads to indicate it is a charge capable of x milliwatts of
charging power. It has no knowledge of battery type/state and just
blindly supplies power to the iDevice.
JF Mezei
Aug 3, 2013, 7:43:24 PM8/3/13
to
On 13-08-03 18:51, nospam wrote:
> that's false
But contrary to rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries, it is highly
recommended that men fully discharge at least every 4 days. This not
only keeps the plumbing in working order but is also good cardio
vascular workout that lengthens the body's life.
If this disharge requires the viewing of videos on a laptop, it may also
have the side effect of discharging the laptop's batteries. (videos tend
to do that quickly :-)
> that's false
But contrary to rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries, it is highly
recommended that men fully discharge at least every 4 days. This not
only keeps the plumbing in working order but is also good cardio
vascular workout that lengthens the body's life.
If this disharge requires the viewing of videos on a laptop, it may also
have the side effect of discharging the laptop's batteries. (videos tend
to do that quickly :-)
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