new phone

[badgolferman]

It’s time to get my wife a new phone to replace her iPhone 7. She wants a
bigger phone and is willing to stay with iPhones since I can support her
technically.

I was considering the iPhone 12 Mini instead of the full iPhone 12. I’ve
looked at the pictures and articles but it’s hard to gauge how much bigger
the Mini is than the 6/7/8/SE. Then there is the size when it comes to
using it one handed.

Please offer your experiences and opinions on what to purchase. What are
the advantages and disadvantages of each? Is it worth it to get the iPhone
11 instead?

[nospam]

In article <s8jiss$1tl2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It零 time to get my wife a new phone to replace her iPhone 7. She wants a

> bigger phone and is willing to stay with iPhones since I can support her
> technically.

don't you mean us? :)

> I was considering the iPhone 12 Mini instead of the full iPhone 12. I靶e
> looked at the pictures and articles but it零 hard to gauge how much bigger

> the Mini is than the 6/7/8/SE. Then there is the size when it comes to
> using it one handed.

the 12 mini is smaller than the 6/7/8/se2020.
the 12 and 12 pro (same size) are slightly larger than the 6/7/8/se2020.

<https://www.macrumors.com/guide/iphone-12-size-comparison/>

> Please offer your experiences and opinions on what to purchase. What are
> the advantages and disadvantages of each? Is it worth it to get the iPhone
> 11 instead?

the biggest difference between the iphone 11 and 12 is that the 12 has
5g, which doesn't matter right now but will in a couple of years. it
also has magsafe with various accessories. the 12 is also faster and
has a better display than the 11 (but same as 11 pro). the 12 pro (same
size as 12) has 3 cameras + lidar.

keep in mind that new iphones are expected in roughly 3 months.

[sms]

On 5/25/2021 12:24 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> It’s time to get my wife a new phone to replace her iPhone 7. She wants a
> bigger phone and is willing to stay with iPhones since I can support her
> technically.
>
> I was considering the iPhone 12 Mini instead of the full iPhone 12. I’ve
> looked at the pictures and articles but it’s hard to gauge how much bigger
> the Mini is than the 6/7/8/SE. Then there is the size when it comes to
> using it one handed.

<snip>

The 12 Mini is smaller than the iPhone 6/7/8/SE2020 but since it is
close to bezel-less the screen is larger.

I would get the regular 12. Even though 5G isn't a necessity right this
minute, if you're keeping your phones for 5 years, as it appears, then
don't buy something that lacks 5G.

The iPhone 13 (or 12s or whatever they end up calling it) may have some
compelling features like the return of TouchID, a smaller notch, a 120Hz
display, a better 5G modem, better cameras, and a larger battery. Of
course all of these are rumors though most of them are likely
considering that competing flagship Android phones have already had most
of these features for one to two years.

My wife is on the iPhone 7 still. She could get an upgrade from work if
she wanted but she's waiting for Touch-ID to return, Face-ID would be a
real hassle for her at work. The iPad Air and the iMac got Touch-ID so
Apple appears to be committed to rolling it out across product lines.

[paul]

nospam wrote on 25.05.2021 14:39

> the biggest difference between the iphone 11 and 12 is that the 12 has
> 5g, which doesn't matter right now but will in a couple of years.

I am coming in here because I like badgolferman & I'm always purposefully
helpful so I'm more offering my comparison services if you need the help.

I bought the iPhone 12 mini on my family plan (trading in an iPhone 7) and
the result is that the iPhone 12 mini is "about the same size" in the end.

Sure, in "pocket size" the iPhone 12 mini is physically smaller but in
contrast the iPhone 7 is also noticeably thinner (if that matters to you).

The biggest size difference is in the iPhone 12 mini screen which is much
larger even as the pocket size is slightly smaller (and of course I opted
for much more internal storage in the new iPhone 12 mini than the 7 had).

I don't have that iPhone 12 mini on me (as it's for a family member) but I
can get any real world data you need if you ask me to find out for you.

Contrary to what nospam claims the 5G is pretty useful because the iPhone is
in a much more congested area than where I live - but even where I live in
the boondocks - I get 5G on my new 5G Android phones (which I got for free).

I'm actually super surprised I can sporadically get 5G where I live but this
iPhone 12 mini gets 5G consistently 100% of the time where it resides.
--
Note I always get a "good deal" because I'm smart and because it doesn't
take any intelligence to get a really bad deal (which is what nospam always
compares things to). I paid essentially half price for the iPhone 12 mini.

[paul]

sms wrote on 25.05.2021 22:10

> she's waiting for Touch-ID to return

Does the new iOS 14.6 "voice unlock" serve her needs?
https://ios.gadgethacks.com/news/apple-releases-ios-14-6-for-iphone-introduces-voice-unlock-after-restart-apple-card-family-podcast-subs-more-0384676/

"Apple released the latest version of its iPhone OS, iOS 14.6, today,
Monday, May 24. This latest update (build number 18F72) introduces new
features like *unlocking your iPhone with Voice Control* after a restart"

[nospam]

In article <s8jlkn$7vs$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> The 12 Mini is smaller than the iPhone 6/7/8/SE2020 but since it is
> close to bezel-less the screen is larger.

it's physically larger, however, it displays approximately the same
content, which is what matters.

> My wife is on the iPhone 7 still. She could get an upgrade from work if
> she wanted but she's waiting for Touch-ID to return, Face-ID would be a
> real hassle for her at work.

she might be waiting a while.

> The iPad Air and the iMac got Touch-ID so
> Apple appears to be committed to rolling it out across product lines.

they're different products with different use cases.

for example, iphones are normally put in a case, which would block
touch id on the side button, as is found on the ipad air. ipads are
usually not put in cases and certainly not an imac keyboard.

face id also costs more and is not an option for the ipad air and one
reason why it's not on the se2020.

[nospam]

In article <s8jmdh$1hmd$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>
> > she's waiting for Touch-ID to return
>
> Does the new iOS 14.6 "voice unlock" serve her needs?

you might try to understand what that actually is for so that you don't
look dumber than you normally do.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 25.05.21 um 21:24 schrieb badgolferman:

> Please offer your experiences and opinions on what to purchase. What are
> the advantages and disadvantages of each? Is it worth it to get the iPhone
> 11 instead?

I switched from an iPhone 7 to an iPhone 11 in Ocotober 19. It took
quite a while until was used to the considerably bigger size. It did not
really fit into my shirt pockets anymore and it is to heavy for that
anyway but I was used to carry around my smartphones that way.

A month ago I wanted to replace may wife's iPhone 8 with an iPhone 12 or
11. She refused strongly and said only a phone of the same size like the
iPhone 8 is acceptable. My argument for the much stonger battery did not
work at all. She ended up with the iPhone SE 2020.

Jörg

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 25.05.21 um 23:07 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

Sorry for the typos and omissions.
My wife is absolutely happy with her new iPhone SE 2020.

[Rod Speed]

paul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> sms wrote

Unlikely she restarts it often.

[badgolferman]

I took the suggestion to get the iPhone 12 and went to T-Mobile.
Considering someday 5G will become prevalent that was a no brainer. They
took her iPhone 7 as a trade in and gave $200 credit, but only if I paid on
a monthly installment plan. I can pay it off any time but there is a 60 day
wait period after that before it’s unlocked. The contents were transferred
over seamlessly and she is using it now.

I didn’t get their insurance because it had to be an installment plan and I
prefer to just pay it off. I think I should get something considering the
expense of replacing screens. Other than Apple Care are there other options
you suggest. What are the advantages of the other plans? How much is Apple
Care? Thanks!

[nospam]

In article <s8jv01$vln$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took the suggestion to get the iPhone 12 and went to T-Mobile.
> Considering someday 5G will become prevalent that was a no brainer. They
> took her iPhone 7 as a trade in and gave $200 credit, but only if I paid on
> a monthly installment plan. I can pay it off any time but there is a 60 day

> wait period after that before itıs unlocked. The contents were transferred

> over seamlessly and she is using it now.

sounds good.

it's also additional evidence that shows what sms says is pure bullshit.

> I didnıt get their insurance because it had to be an installment plan and I

> prefer to just pay it off. I think I should get something considering the
> expense of replacing screens. Other than Apple Care are there other options
> you suggest. What are the advantages of the other plans? How much is Apple
> Care? Thanks!

generally, applecare is not needed for iphones.

whatever warranty the store was selling is a huge profit center and
mostly worthless. if you get any extended warranty, get applecare.

some credit cards offer extended warranties, with at least one
specifically for cellphones, but there are a lot of exclusions and it's
not as good as applecare anyway.

[sms]

On 5/25/2021 3:50 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> I didn’t get their insurance because it had to be an installment plan and I
> prefer to just pay it off. I think I should get something considering the
> expense of replacing screens. Other than Apple Care are there other options
> you suggest. What are the advantages of the other plans? How much is Apple
> Care? Thanks!

Since you didn't pay with a credit card with an extended warranty you
might want to sign up for a no-annual-fee World Elite Mastercard (not
Visa) that covers up to $800 in repairs with a $50 deductible. There are
several such cards. See
<https://www.reimastercard.com/credit/cellProtection.do> for one such
card. You also get a $100 REI gift card as a sign-up bonus.

I also have Visa card with coverage but it's capped at $250 with a $50
deductible so I don't use it to pay my bill. We'll see how long
Mastercard continues this feature, a lot of credit cards are removing
benefits.

I set up auto-pay with the REI Visa and auto-pay from my checking
account for the REI bill since I rarely will use that credit card for
anything else.

When you purchase a phone outright it makes sense to use the Costco
Citibank Visa which gives you two additional years of warranty coverage,
and actually has an advantage over Apple Care+ because the company
managing the warranty service will rarely be able to fix anything, they
just issue a refund and you start over with a new device with a new
warranty. You won't end up with a "remanufactured unit," like you might
with AppleCare+: "Apple will, subject to your payment of the service fee
described below, either (i) repair the defect using new or refurbished
parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, or (ii)
exchange the Covered Device with a replacement product that is new or
equivalent to new in performance and reliability."

[paul]

badgolferman wrote on 25.05.2021 17:50

> I took the suggestion to get the iPhone 12 and went to T-Mobile.
> Considering someday 5G will become prevalent that was a no brainer. They
> took her iPhone 7 as a trade in and gave $200 credit, but only if I paid on
> a monthly installment plan.

I'm surprised since I got over $400 tradein from T-Mobile in April for an
iPhone 7 (32GB) on an iPhone 12 mini (128GB) which listed around $750 as I
recall (I can check the exact numbers if you need them).

> I can pay it off any time but there is a 60 day wait period

If you're switching carriers it might matter to unlock it (or traveling) but
T-Mobile (to my knowledge) allows temporary unlocks for travel purposes.

Like you, I can always pay off any iPhone T-Mobile gives me at a discount
but why bother paying off the iPhone when it doesn't cost you any more to
pay whatever you owe in monthly installments?

And in the case of the Android phones, they were all free so there's nothing
to pay off, unless I leave T-Mobile in two years, in which case they charge
me for the phones at whatever is left on their cost accounting sheet.

> The contents were transferred
> over seamlessly and she is using it now.

Same here.
For both Android & iOS.
Nowadays nobody sweats the new phone.

Mine even brought over the entire homescreen, apps and all, all in the same
location I had them in the prior phone. It was like magic it was that easy.

> I didn¢t get their insurance because it had to be an installment plan and I
> prefer to just pay it off. I think I should get something considering the
> expense of replacing screens. Other than Apple Care are there other options
> you suggest. What are the advantages of the other plans? How much is Apple
> Care? Thanks!

T-Mobile, as you probably saw, tries really hard to get you to buy the
insurance but you did the right thing, IMHO, by resisting Satan's apple.

Personally I can understand Apple buyers falling for the insurance because
it seems Apple buyers buy more on fear than on logic and sense.

AppleCare+ is one reason iPhone cost of ownership is always so very high.

You might want to look at what Consumers Union (aka Consumer Reports) says.
*Is Smartphone Insurance Worth Buying?*
https://www.consumerreports.org/insurance/is-smartphone-insurance-worth-buying/

They cover AppleCare+, Samsung Premium Care, three AT&T insurance plans,
various Sprint plans (yes, I know, it's from 2018), three T-Mobile plans,
three Verizon plans (notice a pattern of "good better best" yet?) and
independent insurance plans like "SquareTrade").

They also cover how credit cards extend warranties which extend even to the
cellular service bill if you pay the service by credit card, and they say
some homeowners insurance policies also cover the cell phone.

Octavio Blanco Money Editor at CR covers insurance here at time 1:10
https://www.consumerreports.org/3b3606ce-ea38-440f-91ec-c0f546965609

Personally I think only a fool purchases insurance for an item that they can
easily replace (which is why I only have liability & catastrophic insurance
on my car and home) but a lot of people will pay good money for peace of
mind (particularly Apple owners) which I can understand (as I have similarly
emotional Apple owners in my family who are like that too).

If you want more information a search for "is cellphone insurance worth it"
pops up plenty of articles (some of which may be insurance company shills).
https://clark.com/insurance/should-you-buy-cell-phone-insurance/
https://www.toptenreviews.com/is-cell-phone-insurance-worth-it
https://moneyqanda.com/cell-phone-insurance-worth-it/
https://www.moneycrashers.com/cell-phone-insurance-worth-it/
https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/is-cell-phone-insurance-worth-it
https://www.progressive.com/answers/is-cell-phone-insurance-worth-it/

Here's one example out of the list above (which echoes my sentiments).
"*You should never insure something that is a consumer item*"
https://clark.com/insurance/should-you-buy-cell-phone-insurance/
--
Personally my opinion is anyone insuring anything they can replace has no
idea whatsoever as to how the insurance company is a profitable outfit.

[RonTheGuy]

On May 25, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:250520211644401442%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

> it's physically larger, however, it displays approximately the same
> content, which is what matters.

The size that matters is the screen size is bigger on the 12mini.

Ron, the humblest guy in town.

[nospam]

In article <1bjbmbdh...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > it's physically larger, however, it displays approximately the same
> > content, which is what matters.
>
> The size that matters is the screen size is bigger on the 12mini.

the advantage of larger displays is to show more content so that there
is less scrolling.

if both displays show the same content (or nearly so), there is no (or
very slight) benefit.

the pixel counts are misleading since they render at different scales.

[Rod Speed]

"RonTheGuy" <r...@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:1bjbmbdh...@news.solani.org...

> On May 25, 2021, nospam wrote
> (in article<news:250520211644401442%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>
>> it's physically larger, however, it displays approximately the same
>> content, which is what matters.
>
> The size that matters is the screen size

Not necessarily, for me it’s the physical size, it need
to be convenient in my jeans and shorts pockets.

> is bigger on the 12mini.

> Ron, the humblest guy in town.

Still don’t buy that and a real humble guy wouldn’t brag about being humble.

[RonTheGuy]

On May 29, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:290520211903581113%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

> If both displays show the same content (or nearly so), there is no (or
> very slight) benefit.

If both show the same amount of content but one has a larger display isn't
the content on the larger display then shown bigger (easier on the eyes)?

[nospam]

In article <3n5pel2wabc8$.d...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > If both displays show the same content (or nearly so), there is no (or
> > very slight) benefit.
>
> If both show the same amount of content but one has a larger display isn't
> the content on the larger display then shown bigger (easier on the eyes)?

bigger, yes.

easier on the eyes is subjective, with the tradeoff being a larger
device. some people want smaller devices. larger is *not* always
better.

in fact, when apple discontinued the original se (which is smaller than
the current se) there was enormous outcry wanting a smaller phone.

and as i said, the se and iphone 12 use very different display
technologies (lcd & oled) which render at different scales, so they
can't be directly compared.

[Ant]

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It???s time to get my wife a new phone to replace her iPhone 7. She wants a

> bigger phone and is willing to stay with iPhones since I can support her
> technically.

> I was considering the iPhone 12 Mini instead of the full iPhone 12. I???ve
> looked at the pictures and articles but it???s hard to gauge how much bigger

> the Mini is than the 6/7/8/SE. Then there is the size when it comes to
> using it one handed.

> Please offer your experiences and opinions on what to purchase. What are
> the advantages and disadvantages of each? Is it worth it to get the iPhone
> 11 instead?

Have you seen https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ yet?
--
RIP 2 my over decade old EVGA X58 SLI (132-BL-E758; BIOS date 5/11/2010; v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on 5/30/2021. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

[badgolferman]

I am in Florida visiting my mother and she hated her xfinity mobile plan so
I offered to add her to my Tmobile account so could she have unlimited
everything. Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here
I am now. It’s hard to say no to a free premium phone.

It took almost three hours to get out of the store. It started with the
customer before me berating the clerk when they found out his credit was
bad and consequently rescinded the free phone offer. Then it took forever
to get a transfer code from xfinity for my mother’s phone. Finally it took
even longer than forever to update to iOS 14.6 on the new phone before the
transfer would initiate.

For some reason my old phone became unresponsive to any inputs and we
couldn’t input the passcode during one of the final phases. He was forced
to look up some special combination of a forced restart to finally make it
work.

Right now I’m struggling with pairing my hearing aids and blood pressure
monitor to Bluetooth. The car radio connected so I can’t blame the phone
but the other devices won’t pair.

[sms]

On 6/6/2021 12:51 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> Right now I’m struggling with pairing my hearing aids and blood pressure
> monitor to Bluetooth. The car radio connected so I can’t blame the phone
> but the other devices won’t pair.

I remember porting my mother in south Florida to T-Mobile from Bell
South many years ago, including walking her through unlocking her phone.

T-Mobile was okay in the metro area but when she went to visit my sister
on the outskirts of Atlanta, or me in California, it was not okay
because of coverage issues. I ported her again over to PagePlus
(Verizon). I bought her a Verizon phone at Fry's, set it all up for her
on PagePlus, uploaded her contacts, and mailed it to her. She bought a
year of service at a time for $80 so she didn't have to add money every
120 days.

[nospam]

In article <s9jaia$qkv$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> T-Mobile was okay in the metro area but when she went to visit my sister
> on the outskirts of Atlanta, or me in California, it was not okay
> because of coverage issues.

bullshit. t-mobile is excellent where you live. it has to be because
it's a dense urban area which also happens to be home to a very large
well known company who designs and tests phones. t-mobile is probably
just as good in the 'outskirts of atlanta' too.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 06, 2021, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:s9j8vu$qrm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here
> I am now.

They gave you a FREE iPhone 12?
What's the catch?

[nospam]

In article <1qo21iux...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
> > swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
> > upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here
> > I am now.
>
> They gave you a FREE iPhone 12?
> What's the catch?

normally, it's by renewing a 2 year contract.

[sms]

All the carriers are doing this now. You have to keep postpaid service
active, at a minimum level, for a certain number of years, and you have
to finance the phone. See
<https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/att-verizon-free-iphones-long-term-customers>.

It's basically a return to the practice of long-term contracts in
exchange for a subsidized phone. The carriers want to keep postpaid
customers with higher ARPUs. Prepaid has been growing much faster than
postpaid and is no longer being used just by low-income people.

If you were planning to stick with a postpaid carrier, on a high-cost
plan, anyway, then it makes sense to take advantage of the subsidized
phone and go back under contract. If you're on a lower-cost prepaid
service then it's probably better to just pay for a new phone.

[badgolferman]

Yes, this is the catch. And it remains locked to T-Mobile for that period
of time.

On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.
It’s certainly faster than the anemic WiFi 10Mb speeds.

[nospam]

In article <s9lh2m$1t28$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>> Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
> >>> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
> >>> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet
> >>> here
> >>> I am now.
> >>
> >> They gave you a FREE iPhone 12?
> >> What's the catch?
> >
> > normally, it's by renewing a 2 year contract.
> >
>
> Yes, this is the catch. And it remains locked to T-Mobile for that period
> of time.

because you don't actually own it until it's fully paid off.

> On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.

> Itąs certainly faster than the anemic WiFi 10Mb speeds.

what kind of shitty wifi is that? is that at a hotel?

in any event, the real questions are how are you dealing with not
having a touch id button, and have you created a poop emoji yet? :)

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, badgolferman wrote
(in article<news:s9lh2m$1t28$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> Yes, this is the catch.

Not bad.
If you weren't going to change carriers you'd have to be on them anyway.

> And it remains locked to T-Mobile for that period of time.

You don't need to unlock it if you stay put so that won't matter either.

> On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.

What kind of 5G?
I don't know how 5G works but I heard a phone may not have all 5G bands.

How can I tell on my iPhone 12 which bands of 5G it supports?
And how can I tell on mine which 5G band I'm currently connecting to?

[nospam]

In article <crw8oyke...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.
>
> What kind of 5G?
> I don't know how 5G works but I heard a phone may not have all 5G bands.

iphones have all three types: low, mid and mmw. other phones vary.

[badgolferman]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <s9lh2m$1t28$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman
> <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
>>>>> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
>>>>> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet
>>>>> here
>>>>> I am now.
>>>>
>>>> They gave you a FREE iPhone 12?
>>>> What's the catch?
>>>
>>> normally, it's by renewing a 2 year contract.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, this is the catch. And it remains locked to T-Mobile for that period
>> of time.
>
> because you don't actually own it until it's fully paid off.
>
>> On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.

>> It¹s certainly faster than the anemic WiFi 10Mb speeds.

>
> what kind of shitty wifi is that? is that at a hotel?

My mother’s house. Free from homeowners association. 10/5 speeds.

> in any event, the real questions are how are you dealing with not
> having a touch id button, and have you created a poop emoji yet? :)
>

Honestly I miss touchid. If the phone is laying down and I’m sitting at the
table I have to raise the phone to unlock it or move my face over the
phone. With touchid I could just reach over and in one short motion unlock
it.

I don’t use emojis. Too old and unwilling to act like a kid.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:070620211412417999%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

>> What kind of 5G?
>> I don't know how 5G works but I heard a phone may not have all 5G bands.
>
> iphones have all three types: low, mid and mmw. other phones vary.

What specific set of buttons do I press on the iPhone 12 to see the specific
frequencies supported by the specific phone on the specific carrier?

[nospam]

In article <1dkktzzyfaujv$.d...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> >> What kind of 5G?
> >> I don't know how 5G works but I heard a phone may not have all 5G bands.
> >
> > iphones have all three types: low, mid and mmw. other phones vary.
>
> What specific set of buttons do I press on the iPhone 12 to see the specific
> frequencies supported by the specific phone on the specific carrier?

you don't, because that does not matter.

however, the specs lists it:
<https://www.apple.com/iphone-12/specs/>
5G NR (Bands n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n8, n12, n20, n25, n28, n38,
n40, n41, n66, n71, n77, n78, n79)
5G NR mmWave (Bands n260, n261)
FDD-LTE (Bands 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20,
25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 32, 66, 71)
TD-LTE (Bands 34, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 46, 48)
CDMA EV-DO Rev. A (800, 1900 MHz)
UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1700/2100, 1900, 2100 MHz)
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

5G (sub-6 GHz and mmWave)
Gigabit LTE with 4x4 MIMO and LAA4
Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) with 2x2 MIMO
Bluetooth 5.0 wireless technology
Ultra Wideband chip for spatial awareness
NFC with reader mode
Express Cards with power reserve

different carriers support different types of 5g, and then there's
bands within each type, but regardless, the phone will use whatever is
best in a given situation unless you explicitly disable 5g.

one reason to do that is to conserve on battery life since the early 5g
chipsets are still battery hogs, although they are much better than the
first 5g chipsets, which lasted about 1-2 hours on a charge and also
caused the phone to overheat.

[nospam]

In article <s9ltmu$2tn$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> On another note, I noticed 5G coverage where I am staying in Naples, FL.

> >> It1s certainly faster than the anemic WiFi 10Mb speeds.

> >
> > what kind of shitty wifi is that? is that at a hotel?
>

> My motheršs house. Free from homeowners association. 10/5 speeds.

what kind of son lets his mum suffer like that??

> > in any event, the real questions are how are you dealing with not
> > having a touch id button, and have you created a poop emoji yet? :)
> >
>

> Honestly I miss touchid. If the phone is laying down and Išm sitting at the

> table I have to raise the phone to unlock it or move my face over the
> phone. With touchid I could just reach over and in one short motion unlock
> it.

true, but while in a car, that's a plus.

> I donšt use emojis. Too old and unwilling to act like a kid.

you're no fun :)

[badgolferman]

I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.

[nospam]

In article <s9mfc4$hlp$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
> But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.

early 5g chipsets aren't that efficient. they'll get better.

the same thing happened with lte.

[Ant]

How long did it take for LTE to get better in iPhones?
--
RIP, my 10.44 yrs. old EVGA X58 SLI (132-BL-E758; BIOS date 5/11/2010; v6.00 PG; release number IX58SZ64) mobo that was just cleaned on 5/29/2021. :( Zikron job on da 7th tho. :)

[nospam]

In article <uqGdnTCbqN1TUyP9...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>
> > the same thing happened with lte.
>
> How long did it take for LTE to get better in iPhones?

the same as every other lte phone, a couple of years.

the first lte android phone was dead by lunchtime with lte enabled.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, badgolferman wrote

(in article<news:s9mfc4$hlp$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
> But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.

Which of these 4 T-Mobile 5G frequencies were you connected to at the time?

T-Mobile frequencies that can provide 5G:
Band n71 (600 MHz)
Band n41 (2.5 GHz)
Band n260 (39 GHz)
Band n261 (28 GHz)
https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/t-mobile-network

[nospam]

In article <1miu3m30...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
> > But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.
>
> Which of these 4 T-Mobile 5G frequencies were you connected to at the time?
>
> T-Mobile frequencies that can provide 5G:
> Band n71 (600 MHz)
> Band n41 (2.5 GHz)
> Band n260 (39 GHz)
> Band n261 (28 GHz)
> https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/t-mobile-network

why does it matter? the phone picks the best one wherever you happen to
be and will switch if needed as you move.

[badgolferman]

Damn if I know.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, nospam wrote

(in article<news:070620211636214581%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

> you don't, because that does not matter.

I hope he can because I've seen it done on other phones.

> however, the specs lists it:
> <https://www.apple.com/iphone-12/specs/>

Only four matter for T-Mobile.

Band n71 (600 MHz)
Band n41 (2.5 GHz)
Band n260 (39 GHz)
Band n261 (28 GHz)
https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/t-mobile-network

Badgolferman should be able to tell which one he was on when he tested it.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, badgolferman wrote

(in article<news:s9mjhp$1oj5$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):
> Damn if I know.

On every phone there should be a way to tell what you're connected to.
I've seen it done.
I've just never seen it done on an iPhone.
There must be a way.

[nospam]

In article <1qqjcgan4v1sk$.d...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > you don't, because that does not matter.
>
> I hope he can because I've seen it done on other phones.

field test mode might show it, but it's really only useful for those
who are configuring cell towers.

for end users it's irrelevant. the phone picks the best signal based on
existing conditions which are always in flux, especially for 5g.

[RonTheGuy]

On Jun 07, 2021, nospam wrote

(in article<news:070620212207479031%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

> why does it matter? the phone picks the best one wherever you happen to
> be and will switch if needed as you move.

You should be able to pick which 5G you want based on your needs.

Low-band (600-700 MHz): this is the slowest 5G connection, and provides a
marginal boost over 4G speeds. Categorized under Frequency Range 1 (FR1),
aka "sub-6," as in under 6 GHz.

Mid-band (2.5-3.7 GHz): this is the mid-level 5G connection, providing much
faster speeds than 4G. Also categorized under FR1.

High-band (25-39 GHz): Signals in Frequency Range 2, also known as mmWave.
This is 5G at its best, providing speeds and latency that rival or even
surpass what you can get with the best home internet connection.

Each has its own pros and cons.
https://smartphones.gadgethacks.com/how-to/make-sure-youre-getting-fastest-5g-speeds-your-phone-0309641/

[sms]

On 6/7/2021 5:58 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
> But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.

5G uses a lot of power Check your download speeds with 5G turned off. It
could be fast enough for most apps.

One advantage of Android flagships is that the 5G modem is integrated
into the SOC so it uses less power. Apple has to use a separate modem
since they don't yet have a 5G modem to integrate into their Bionic
chip. The iPhone 12 is not using the latest generation Qualcomm 5G
modem. The iPhone 13 should be using the Qualcomm X60 modem which is
more power efficient. But the big power savings will come when Apple has
its own modem integrated into the Bionic chipset; that should happen by
the iPhone 15.

[nospam]

In article <w6h61rz8ggb6$.d...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy

<r...@null.invalid> wrote:

> > why does it matter? the phone picks the best one wherever you happen to
> > be and will switch if needed as you move.
>
> You should be able to pick which 5G you want based on your needs.

absolutely not.

> Low-band (600-700 MHz): this is the slowest 5G connection, and provides a
> marginal boost over 4G speeds. Categorized under Frequency Range 1 (FR1),
> aka "sub-6," as in under 6 GHz.
>
> Mid-band (2.5-3.7 GHz): this is the mid-level 5G connection, providing much
> faster speeds than 4G. Also categorized under FR1.
>
> High-band (25-39 GHz): Signals in Frequency Range 2, also known as mmWave.
> This is 5G at its best, providing speeds and latency that rival or even
> surpass what you can get with the best home internet connection.
>
> Each has its own pros and cons.

what you don't get is that all three do not coexist for all carriers
everywhere.

the phone picks whatever is best at a given place & time, which can
change as you and others move about.

[nospam]

In article <s9mka5$4bh$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
> > But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.
>
> 5G uses a lot of power Check your download speeds with 5G turned off. It
> could be fast enough for most apps.

true.

> One advantage of Android flagships is that the 5G modem is integrated
> into the SOC so it uses less power.

very few phones have that.

> Apple has to use a separate modem
> since they don't yet have a 5G modem to integrate into their Bionic
> chip.

for now, but despite that, iphones get better battery life, largely due
to apple's processors being *significantly* more power efficient than
anything android has.

> The iPhone 12 is not using the latest generation Qualcomm 5G
> modem. The iPhone 13 should be using the Qualcomm X60 modem which is
> more power efficient. But the big power savings will come when Apple has
> its own modem integrated into the Bionic chipset; that should happen by
> the iPhone 15.

more made up nonsense.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:070620212229367614%nos...@nospam.invalid...

But cant know how you PLAN to use it.

[paul]

nospam wrote on 07.06.2021 22:29

>> One advantage of Android flagships is that the 5G modem is integrated
>> into the SOC so it uses less power.
>
> very few phones have that.

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21 Plus & S21 Ultra, Xiaomi Mi 11, Oppo Find X3 Pro,
Meizu 18 & 18 Pro, nubia Red Magic 6 & 6 Pro, Redmi K40 Pro & K40 Pro Plus,
Vivo Iqoo 7, Vivo X60 Pro Plus, Xiaomi Mi 11 Ultra, Realme GT, OnePlus 9,
OnePlus 9 Pro, and many others (as that list was from early 1Q 2021).

More every month.

>
>> Apple has to use a separate modem
>> since they don't yet have a 5G modem to integrate into their Bionic
>> chip.
>
> for now, but despite that, iphones get better battery life, largely due
> to apple's processors being *significantly* more power efficient than
> anything android has.

Total bullshit.
Apple's not even on the list of the top 20 in battery life tests.

Moto G Power: 16:10
Moto G Power (2021): 14:04
Nubia RedMagic 6: 13:20
LG V60 ThinQ 5G: 12:46
Kyocera DuraForce Ultra 5G UW: 12:29
Asus ROG Phone 5: 12:23
Samsung Galaxy A52 5G: 12:19
Moto G Fast: 12:17
Cat S62 Pro: 12:16
Moto G Stylus: 12:13
Motorola Edge: 12:12
Motorola One 5G Ace: 12:03
Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra: 11:58
OnePlus Nord N10 5G: 11:48
Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra: 11:25
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/smartphones-best-battery-life,review-2857.html

>> The iPhone 12 is not using the latest generation Qualcomm 5G
>> modem. The iPhone 13 should be using the Qualcomm X60 modem which is
>> more power efficient. But the big power savings will come when Apple has
>> its own modem integrated into the Bionic chipset; that should happen by
>> the iPhone 15.
>
> more made up nonsense.

Apple is almost always a few generations behind on integrated modem design.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 07.06.21 um 21:57 schrieb badgolferman:

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> what kind of shitty wifi is that? is that at a hotel?
>
> My mother’s house. Free from homeowners association. 10/5 speeds.

When you are sitting no more than 10 ft away from the router. Otherwise
it will drop sharply.

Bezeichnung IEEE Standard Maximale Linkrate
(sehr gutes Signal)

Wi‑Fi 4 802.11n 72–600 MBit/s[8]
Wi‑Fi 5 802.11ac 433–6933 MBit/s[8]
Wi‑Fi 6
Wi‑Fi 6E 802.11ax 600–9608 MBit/s[8]

[badgolferman]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 6/7/2021 5:58 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I ran a speed test today and got 126 Mbps download and 19.7 Mbps upload.
>> But the phone does often feel hot when connected to 5G. Carrier is Tmobile.
>
> 5G uses a lot of power Check your download speeds with 5G turned off. It
> could be fast enough for most apps.
>
>

How do you turn it off?

[nospam]

In article <ii8819...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > the phone picks whatever is best at a given place & time,
>
> But cant know how you PLAN to use it.

it doesn't need to.

[nospam]

In article <s9nj9p$6q9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > 5G uses a lot of power Check your download speeds with 5G turned off. It
> > could be fast enough for most apps.
> >
> >
>
> How do you turn it off?

settings>cellular>cellular data options>voice&data, choose lte.

[Rod Speed]

"paul" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:s9muih$11la$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

Fuck off Arlen.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message

news:080620210811196230%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Wrong with some of the situations you carefully deleted from the quoting.

[badgolferman]

This morning I left Naples FL at 4:00am and drove straight home to SE
Virginia arriving at 6:30pm. Total mileage 975. I had 5G coverage 99% time
except for some very small pockets of 4G coverage. I was using my phone for
navigation so I kept an eye on the cellular symbol the whole time.

Of course data coverage along major interstates is almost expected, but
even after I got off I-95 and headed toward the coast on the back roads I
continued to have 5G coverage all the way. This is T-Mobile. I thought sms
might like to know that.

[nospam]

In article <s9rpoq$pqv$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This morning I left Naples FL at 4:00am and drove straight home to SE
> Virginia arriving at 6:30pm. Total mileage 975. I had 5G coverage 99% time
> except for some very small pockets of 4G coverage. I was using my phone for
> navigation so I kept an eye on the cellular symbol the whole time.
>
> Of course data coverage along major interstates is almost expected, but
> even after I got off I-95 and headed toward the coast on the back roads I
> continued to have 5G coverage all the way. This is T-Mobile. I thought sms
> might like to know that.

he doesn't care, but at least others will realize that he's full of
shit.

[badgolferman]

sms, what say ye? nospam claims you don’t care but I’m not so sure.

————-

[sms]

On 6/10/2021 2:37 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> sms, what say ye? nospam claims you don’t care but I’m not so sure.

Sorry, I don't see nospam's posts.

You're lucky. Look at the coverage comparison for Florida at
<https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/Best-Coverage-in-Florida-USA>
where T-Mobile is a distant last place.

Also look at <https://www.reviews.org/mobile/best-cell-phone-coverage/>
for a comparison of the whole country.

Also look at
<https://www.jdpower.com/sites/default/files/file/2021-01/2021004%20U.S.%20Wireless%20Network%20Quality_0.pdf>.

Also look at
<https://www.comparecellular.com/coverage-maps/compare-coverage-maps/>.

As you are well aware by now, I cite referenced facts, while nospam,
well you know about his credibility or lack thereof.

Of course you had coverage along I-95. Good to see T-Mobile trying to
add coverage away from freeways. I think that in 3-7 years T-Mobile will
be a viable choice for those concerned about geographic coverage. I was
just in rural parts of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona (Zion, Grand Staircase,
Grand Canyon, and Bryce). Verizon had the best coverage in Bryce and
Zion, I was able to make and receive calls in areas where others were
asking what carrier I had because they had no coverage at all, even
though the T-Mobile map showed partner 3G coverage (the Verizon map
showed native 4G coverage). But there were rural stretches of US 50 in
Utah and Nevada where I had no coverage at all even on Verizon.

[badgolferman]

There aren’t a lot of people in the rural parts of the desert. T-Mobile
made a business decision to reach the most people with the least resources.
I think you also missed the part where I went off the beaten path and still
had 5G coverage. By the way, I pay $103/month for four lines and unlimited
everything. That includes Netflix. What do you pay to VZW?

[nospam]

In article <s9u3bn$c5t$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > sms, what say ye? nospam claims you donıt care but Iım not so sure.

it's perfectly clear he does not care.

>
> Sorry, I don't see nospam's posts.

that excuse won't work, and yes you do see them, one of which was
quoted in the post to which you replied.

the original post about t-mobile was from badgolferman.

> You're lucky.

no luck involved.

his experience is entirely consistent with t-mobile's actual coverage.

> Look at the coverage comparison for Florida at

real world experience beats some map found on a website, plus he drove
in at least *four* other states in addition to florida.

> Of course you had coverage along I-95. Good to see T-Mobile trying to

given badgolferman's departure and destination cities, he was *not* on
i-95 for almost the entire florida portion, picking up i-95 in
jacksonville, which is about 25 miles south of the georgia state line.

if you're going to base your fabricated criticism by looking at a map,
you should at least know the actual route.

he also mentioned excellent coverage on back roads after exiting i-95.

you are wrong yet again.

[nospam]

In article <s9u5uv$onf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > I was
> > just in rural parts of Nevada, Utah, and Arizona (Zion, Grand Staircase,
> > Grand Canyon, and Bryce). Verizon had the best coverage in Bryce and

> > ...
> >
>
> There arenšt a lot of people in the rural parts of the desert. T-Mobile

> made a business decision to reach the most people with the least resources.

as does any company.

> I think you also missed the part where I went off the beaten path and still
> had 5G coverage.

he didn't miss it.

he intentionally ignored it, just as he does everything that proves him
wrong.

> By the way, I pay $103/month for four lines and unlimited
> everything. That includes Netflix. What do you pay to VZW?

he has a financially beneficial relationship with verizon, which is why
he shills for them so much.

[sms]

On 6/10/2021 4:07 PM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> There aren’t a lot of people in the rural parts of the desert.

Well there aren't a lot of people that live in the places I referred to,
but there are a lot of people that travel to or through those areas so I
appreciate the effort that Verizon and AT&T made to provide at least
some coverage.

> T-Mobile
> made a business decision to reach the most people with the least resources.

Yes, that's always been the issue with T-Mobile.

> I think you also missed the part where I went off the beaten path and still
> had 5G coverage.

I did not miss it, I commented on it, " Good to see T-Mobile trying to

add coverage away from freeways."

By the way, I pay $103/month for four lines and unlimited
> everything. That includes Netflix. What do you pay to VZW?

$98 for four lines, including taxes and fees. 100GB of high-speed data
(10GB of Hotspot per line) then low-speed data after that though I've
never reached the 100GB limit. No free SD Netflix. But I am on a Verizon
MVNO, Total Wireless (which Verizon is in the process of purchasing).

I never claimed that being on Verizon was cheaper than being on
T-Mobile. Since my wife is a veteran I could sign up for Magenta
Military on T-Mobile for $100 per month for four lines with a basic
Netflix subscription and included low-speed foreign data and texting.
Nice features but I'd give up a lot of U.S. coverage that I actually
use. So I pay for Netflix separately.

[nospam]

In article <s9u6pp$muj$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> > I think you also missed the part where I went off the beaten path and still
> > had 5G coverage.
>
> I did not miss it, I commented on it, " Good to see T-Mobile trying to
> add coverage away from freeways."

they've been doing that for several decades, as have other carriers.

[badgolferman]

nospam wrote:

>> Look at the coverage comparison for Florida at
>
>real world experience beats some map found on a website, plus he drove

>in at least four other states in addition to florida.
>

Coverage maps have been known to be flawed. Of course all carriers do
it.

>
>> Of course you had coverage along I-95. Good to see T-Mobile trying
>>to
>

>given badgolferman's departure and destination cities, he was not on

>i-95 for almost the entire florida portion, picking up i-95 in
>jacksonville, which is about 25 miles south of the georgia state line.
>
>if you're going to base your fabricated criticism by looking at a map,
>you should at least know the actual route.

Florida I-75, State Route 301, I-10, I-295, I-95
Georgia I-95
South Carolina I-95
North Carolina I-95
Virginia I-95, State Route 58, various back roads to Newport News

>he also mentioned excellent coverage on back roads after exiting i-95.

The phone only goes up to four bars and I rarely ever saw anything
lower than three bars.

[nospam]

In article <xn0mz090d...@nntp.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> >> Look at the coverage comparison for Florida at
> >
> >real world experience beats some map found on a website, plus he drove
> >in at least four other states in addition to florida.
> >
>
> Coverage maps have been known to be flawed. Of course all carriers do
> it.

yep

> >> Of course you had coverage along I-95. Good to see T-Mobile trying
> >>to
> >
> >given badgolferman's departure and destination cities, he was not on
> >i-95 for almost the entire florida portion, picking up i-95 in
> >jacksonville, which is about 25 miles south of the georgia state line.
> >
> >if you're going to base your fabricated criticism by looking at a map,
> >you should at least know the actual route.
>
> Florida I-75, State Route 301, I-10, I-295, I-95
> Georgia I-95
> South Carolina I-95
> North Carolina I-95
> Virginia I-95, State Route 58, various back roads to Newport News

like i said, florida was almost entirely *not* i-95.

> >he also mentioned excellent coverage on back roads after exiting i-95.
>
> The phone only goes up to four bars and I rarely ever saw anything
> lower than three bars.

it's comical how often he's wrong.

[sms]

On 6/11/2021 6:04 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> Coverage maps have been known to be flawed. Of course all carriers do
> it.

Actually the references I provided were not based solely on coverage
maps. But the reality is that the coverage maps are pretty good since
there would be serious repercussions for outright lying. The most
egregious errors I've seen are when a carrier shows coverage as "fair"
since that generally means "none," and when a carrier shows partner
coverage that doesn't actually exist. Occasionally I've gotten Verizon
coverage where a map shows no coverage, because they're being
conservative in their maps.

When I was in Zion National Park two weeks ago, one place that I had
coverage in an area that was just outside what the Verizon coverage map
showed. The T-Mobile map shows partner 3G/2G coverage, but there was
actually no coverage, at least according to people in that area that
were trying to make calls. This was at the Angels Landing/The Grotto
area. And as an aside, the ranger there must explain, 100 times a day,
that no grotto actually exists at "The Grotto," it was destroyed by a
rock slide in the 1990's.

For my area (SF Bay Area) if a carrier claims native coverage they
provide it, and if they show no coverage you can be pretty certain that
there is no coverage. T-Mobile has far more places in the Bay Area with
no coverage, but at least they are honest about it.

[badgolferman]

I'm not going to argue that TMO has equal or better coverage than VZW,
which they obviously don't. The entire purpose of this sub-thread was
to inform you their coverage is not as bad as you constantly assert.
Remember that they do not have the resources of VZW or ATT, yet their
customer base has grown significantly over the past five years so they
must be doing something right. I switched from VZW to TMO because I
didn't like the cost or customer service. I have no such complaints
with TMO.

[sms]

On 6/11/2021 10:25 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> I'm not going to argue that TMO has equal or better coverage than VZW,
> which they obviously don't. The entire purpose of this sub-thread was
> to inform you their coverage is not as bad as you constantly assert.
> Remember that they do not have the resources of VZW or ATT, yet their
> customer base has grown significantly over the past five years so they
> must be doing something right. I switched from VZW to TMO because I
> didn't like the cost or customer service. I have no such complaints
> with TMO.

I can understand the cost of postpaid Verizon versus postpaid T-Mobile.
But the reality is that there are multiple ways to get Verizon service
other than postpaid. Verizon's Visible service is $25 per line per month
for unlimited if you join a group, and each line is billed separately
<https://www.visible.com/>. Total Wireless, which is in the process of
being purchased by Verizon as part of their attempted acquisition of
Tracfone, is around $98 for four lines
<https://www.totalwireless.com/serviceplan>.

As to customer service, the need for contacting the carrier for anything
once the service is set up is pretty rare. I actually like the Total
Wireless chat based customer service where I can ask very specific
questions and provide things like IMEIs of new phones over chat without
reading them to someone on the phone.

Your area may be very different than the western U.S. when it comes to
coverage. I just could not continue with T-Mobile because they lack
coverage in so many of the places we visit or drive through. For a while
I just kept a prepaid Verizon phone for trips but when my kids went off
to college they needed phones with good coverage in California, and
T-Mobile didn't provide that.

[nospam]

In article <xn0mz0fty...@nntp.aioe.org>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> sms wrote:
> > ...

> >
> >

> I'm not going to argue that TMO has equal or better coverage than VZW,
> which they obviously don't. The entire purpose of this sub-thread was
> to inform you their coverage is not as bad as you constantly assert.

t-mobile is nowhere near as bad as he constantly asserts.

he's clearly shilling.

> Remember that they do not have the resources of VZW or ATT, yet their
> customer base has grown significantly over the past five years so they
> must be doing something right. I switched from VZW to TMO because I
> didn't like the cost or customer service. I have no such complaints
> with TMO.

even before 5 years ago.

*all* carriers have dead spots, even verizon.

[RJH]

On 11 Jun 2021 at 7:09:54 PM, sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I can understand the cost of postpaid Verizon versus postpaid T-Mobile.

Tmo coverage is fine.
Verizon is only slightly better.
--
Cheers, Rob

[nospam]

In article <sa1knk$1e6i$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, RJH <patch...@gmx.com>

wrote:

>
> > I can understand the cost of postpaid Verizon versus postpaid T-Mobile.
>
> Tmo coverage is fine.
> Verizon is only slightly better.

it depends where.

for many people, t-mobile is the better choice. for others, it's at&t.

verizon is not the best for everyone everywhere.

[sms]

That is highly dependent on your location. If you're on the eastern
seaboard it's true. If you're on the west coast it's untrue, Verizon and
AT&T have far, far more geographic coverage.

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-06-07 11:43, RonTheGuy wrote:
> On Jun 06, 2021, badgolferman wrote
> (in article<news:s9j8vu$qrm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):
>
>> Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
>> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
>> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here
>> I am now.
>
> They gave you a FREE iPhone 12?

Nothing free about it.


--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Alan Browne]

On 2021-06-06 15:51, badgolferman wrote:

> I am in Florida visiting my mother and she hated her xfinity mobile plan so
> I offered to add her to my Tmobile account so could she have unlimited
> everything. Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and

> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here

> I am now. It’s hard to say no to a free premium phone.

There is nothing 'free' about it.

>
> It took almost three hours to get out of the store. It started with the
> customer before me berating the clerk when they found out his credit was
> bad and consequently rescinded the free phone offer. Then it took forever
> to get a transfer code from xfinity for my mother’s phone. Finally it took
> even longer than forever to update to iOS 14.6 on the new phone before the
> transfer would initiate.

I just buy my phones from Apple w/o any association to a carrier. Much
less hassle. Keep them for 5 years. Much cheaper than "free" carrier
provided phones...

[paul]

Alan Browne wrote on 12.06.2021 23:20

> I just buy my phones from Apple w/o any association to a carrier. Much
> less hassle. Keep them for 5 years. Much cheaper than "free" carrier
> provided phones...

I picked up an iPhone 12 for half price with the tradein of an iPhone 7.

I also got a bunch of Android Samsung 5G phones for free (with the tradein
of ANY phone - so I gave them the worst phones I could find).

So now I have more free phones than I know what to do with them.

[badgolferman]

Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2021-06-06 15:51, badgolferman wrote:
>
>> I am in Florida visiting my mother and she hated her xfinity mobile plan so
>> I offered to add her to my Tmobile account so could she have unlimited
>> everything. Of course they offer a free iPhone so I bit the bullet and
>> swapped in my iPhone 8 for the iPhone 12. Now both my wife and I have been
>> upgraded. Yes, I know I said I would never get a phone with FaceID yet here
>> I am now. It’s hard to say no to a free premium phone.
>
> There is nothing 'free' about it.
>
>>
>> It took almost three hours to get out of the store. It started with the
>> customer before me berating the clerk when they found out his credit was
>> bad and consequently rescinded the free phone offer. Then it took forever
>> to get a transfer code from xfinity for my mother’s phone. Finally it took
>> even longer than forever to update to iOS 14.6 on the new phone before the
>> transfer would initiate.
>
> I just buy my phones from Apple w/o any association to a carrier. Much
> less hassle. Keep them for 5 years. Much cheaper than "free" carrier
> provided phones...
>
>

I was going to pay $15/month to add my mother to my account no matter what.
I traded in my iPhone 8 for an iPhone 12. The only cost was sales tax for
the new phone so maybe technically it wasn’t free but they also waived the
activation fee. I also intend to keep TMO so there’s no issue there either.

[sms]

On 6/12/2021 5:30 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-06-06 15:51, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

>> I just buy my phones from Apple w/o any association to a carrier. Much
>> less hassle. Keep them for 5 years. Much cheaper than "free" carrier
>> provided phones...
>>
>>
>
> I was going to pay $15/month to add my mother to my account no matter what.
> I traded in my iPhone 8 for an iPhone 12. The only cost was sales tax for
> the new phone so maybe technically it wasn’t free but they also waived the
> activation fee. I also intend to keep TMO so there’s no issue there either.

It's actually foolish NOT to take advantage of these subsidized phones
if you plan to stay with your postpaid carrier anyway.

There's no discount for not taking the subsidized phone. Only if you're
on a low-cost plan through either an MVNO, or on a carrier's lower-cost
prepaid service (Cricket, Visible, Metro, etc.) does it make sense to
buy the phone outright from the phone manufacturer.

The carriers will unlock phones, even when you're under contract, after
45-60 days, since you're still obligated to stay on the postpaid plan
until the phone is paid off (or until you pay it off if you leave before
the contract period).

[nospam]

In article <sa3kgq$s6u$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> The carriers will unlock phones, even when you're under contract, after
> 45-60 days, since you're still obligated to stay on the postpaid plan
> until the phone is paid off (or until you pay it off if you leave before
> the contract period).

they will not unlock the phone until it's fully paid off, for obvious
reasons.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 02:30 schrieb badgolferman:

> I was going to pay $15/month to add my mother to my account no matter what.
> I traded in my iPhone 8 for an iPhone 12. The only cost was sales tax for
> the new phone so maybe technically it wasn’t free but they also waived the
> activation fee. I also intend to keep TMO so there’s no issue there either.

This $15/month are a rip-off.
Thats the way you pay for the iPhone. Get it?

[badgolferman]

No, that is the price to add a new line. It would be paid regardless of
whether I got the phone. Adding a new line made me eligible for the new
phone.

And even if I paid $15/month for an iPhone 12 I’m only obligated for 24
months. $15 x 24 = $360

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 12:16 schrieb badgolferman:

> Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 13.06.21 um 02:30 schrieb badgolferman:
>>> I was going to pay $15/month to add my mother to my account no matter what.
>>> I traded in my iPhone 8 for an iPhone 12. The only cost was sales tax for
>>> the new phone so maybe technically it wasn’t free but they also waived the
>>> activation fee. I also intend to keep TMO so there’s no issue there either.
>>
>> This $15/month are a rip-off.
>> Thats the way you pay for the iPhone. Get it?
>>
>
> No, that is the price to add a new line. It would be paid regardless of
> whether I got the phone. Adding a new line made me eligible for the new
> phone.

Cross subsidies from those not needing a new phone or not making use of
this "offer". It is absolutely incrdible how naive some people are.

> And even if I paid $15/month for an iPhone 12 I’m only obligated for 24
> months. $15 x 24 = $360

100% margin for your provider at least. Marginal cost for adding your
Mom to your account: $ 0. In words: Zero.
And the probability that you cancel the arrangement after 24 months
tends towards Zero too. How to explain that to your Mom?

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 15:32 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:

> 100% margin for your provider at least. Marginal cost for adding your
> Mom to your account: $ 0. In words: Zero.
> And the probability that you cancel the arrangement after 24 months
> tends towards Zero too. How to explain that to your Mom?

Telecommunication services are the purest form of a fixed cost business.
That applies to almost all utility services.

[sms]

Sigh, now it's not a ripoff. $15 is the cost for adding another line,
not for the phone

All the carriers charge for each additional line, often with each
additional line costing slightly less (though some have plans where the
fourth line or fifth line is at no extra charge).

On the family plan I have, on a Verizon MVNO, the first two lines are
$28.50 each, the third line is $23.70, and the fourth line is $14.30.
Current iPhones aren't discounted. The T-Mobile plan badgolferman has
would be only slightly more expensive for me but I could get "free"
phones in exchange for a long term contract. If T-Mobile were usable in
my area I'd switch to them, but coverage issues don't permit that option
at this time. It's rare to find T-Mobile subscribers in my area.

[nospam]

In article <sa52q3$qde$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> It's rare to find T-Mobile subscribers in my area.

bullshit. t-mobile's market share in your area as well as the rest of
the country is substantial, especially after merging with sprint.

<https://www.wsj.com/articles/t-mobile-overtakes-at-t-to-become-no-2-car
rier-11596754162>
T-Mobile US Inc. said it vaulted ahead of rival AT&T Inc. in the race
for wireless customers to become the country零 second-largest
cellphone carrier.

[sms]

On 6/13/2021 6:32 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:

<snip>

> 100% margin for your provider at least. Marginal cost for adding your
> Mom to your account: $ 0. In words: Zero.
> And the probability that you cancel the arrangement after 24 months
> tends towards Zero too. How to explain that to your Mom?

Do you not understand that whether he took the iPhone 12 or not, he
would be paying $15 more for an additional line? This is irrespective of
how much it costs the carrier to provide an additional line, and every
carrier charges for additional lines.

The fact that it makes no sense to not take a fully subsidized "free"
phone has been an issue for decades with postpaid contracts. You get no
benefit from not taking the subsidized phone if you were planning to
stay with the carrier anyway. Worst case you take the subsidized phone
and sell it to someone else (however in the past there was no trade-in
requirement so even if you sold the new phone you still had your current
phone to use).

It doesn't matter that the carrier's marginal cost for adding additional
lines is low, the carrier spreads the fixed costs of building and
operating the network among all the lines. The fixed costs are unequally
spread because there are so many different plans offered, postpaid,
prepaid, personal, business, and MVNO, but each line contributes
something to the fixed costs.

And BTW, the marginal cost per line is not zero since each phone number
from the number pool does cost the carrier a small amount.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 16:40 schrieb sms:

> It doesn't matter that the carrier's marginal cost for adding additional
> lines is low, the carrier spreads the fixed costs of building and
> operating the network among all the lines. The fixed costs are unequally
> spread because there are so many different plans offered, postpaid,
> prepaid, personal, business, and MVNO, but each line contributes
> something to the fixed costs.

Every additional $ is contribution to pre-tax profit.
You really don't understand the whole execise either. The carrier never
cares about the "justified" contribution. It only wants to maximise the
Cash Flow in Dollars. The parameters of the offerings are dictated by
the competition.

> And BTW, the marginal cost per line is not zero since each phone number
> from the number pool does cost the carrier a small amount.

It is zero after the first year and in the first year amonts to $ 0.01.
The carrier is owning blocks of millions of numbers by virtue of its
licence to operate the network. The licence is part of the fixed costs.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 15:56 schrieb sms:

> On 6/12/2021 10:10 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 13.06.21 um 02:30 schrieb badgolferman:
>>> I was going to pay $15/month to add my mother to my account no matter what.
>>> I traded in my iPhone 8 for an iPhone 12. The only cost was sales tax for
>>> the new phone so maybe technically it wasn’t free but they also waived the
>>> activation fee. I also intend to keep TMO so there’s no issue there either.
>>
>> This $15/month are a rip-off.
>> Thats the way you pay for the iPhone. Get it?
>
> Sigh, now it's not a ripoff. $15 is the cost for adding another line,
> not for the phone

Bullshit.
Lines do not exist in the digital world of 5G and 4G.

[nospam]

In article <sa55d3$auf$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> And BTW, the marginal cost per line is not zero since each phone number
> from the number pool does cost the carrier a small amount.

almost zero.

[nospam]

In article <sa56lq$i6o$2...@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
wrote:

> >> This $15/month are a rip-off.
> >> Thats the way you pay for the iPhone. Get it?
> >
> > Sigh, now it's not a ripoff. $15 is the cost for adding another line,
> > not for the phone
>
> Bullshit.
> Lines do not exist in the digital world of 5G and 4G.

the phone number does.

[badgolferman]

I know English is not your native language so maybe something is getting
lost in translation. I’m certainly having a hard time understanding you…

Despite what you think I am pleased with the whole arrangement. Other than
it taking three hours and having to witness the customer ahead of me being
a complete asshole to the representative, everything worked out as I
expected. We transferred my mother’s number from xfinity to T-Mobile, I got
a new phone, I paid some sales tax, and my bill increased by $15/month for
the additional line. And even that is better than it seems because my
mother paid me cash for her line the whole upcoming year. The real cost to
me was sales tax for an iPhone 12.

[sms]

On 6/13/2021 8:21 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> I know English is not your native language so maybe something is getting
> lost in translation. I’m certainly having a hard time understanding you…

That must be it. Perhaps in Jorge's country the way mobile service and
phones are sold is completely different than how it's done in the U.S..

The bottom line is that in the U.S., if you plan to remain with your
postpaid carrier anyway, it is foolish to not take advantage of the
subsidized phones because you're paying that subsidy as part of your
monthly charges whether you use it or not.

For the carrier, these contracts have the effect of reducing churn.

[sms]

Not sure what country you're in, but they definitely do exist in North
America. Each 10 digit phone number in North America has a cost to the
carrier.

[nospam]

In article <sa58nr$l5$1...@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> >>> This $15/month are a rip-off.
> >>> Thats the way you pay for the iPhone. Get it?
> >>
> >> Sigh, now it's not a ripoff. $15 is the cost for adding another line,
> >> not for the phone
> >
> > Bullshit.
> > Lines do not exist in the digital world of 5G and 4G.
>
> Not sure what country you're in, but they definitely do exist in North
> America. Each 10 digit phone number in North America has a cost to the
> carrier.

true, but the cost is negligible, even more so for an additional number
to an existing customer.

the cost is so low that there are many apps that offer free phone
numbers.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 17:28 schrieb sms:

> On 6/13/2021 8:21 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I know English is not your native language so maybe something is getting
>> lost in translation. I’m certainly having a hard time understanding you…
>
> That must be it. Perhaps in Jorge's country the way mobile service and
> phones are sold is completely different than how it's done in the U.S..

The economics of telecommunication are the same everywhere.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 13.06.21 um 17:37 schrieb sms:

They get the numbers with the public licence to operate the network,

[sms]

The way carriers price their services is very different. For many years,
and possibly still, European carriers had "caller pays" where the
receiver of a call was not charged. The price per received call was
higher than in the U.S. but in the U.S. both the calling and receiving
party were charged and the net cost was similar.

Similarly, the model of charging monthly fees that were high enough to
subsidize the cost of providing free or low-cost phones to subscribers
was used early-on to get more people to sign up for service. Then for a
while carriers touted "no contract" and instead had payment plans for
expensive phones. Now they seem to be returning to the contract model
with subsidized phones. If your monthly cost is based on subsidized
phones then it's a bad idea to not use that subsidy, as long as you plan
to stay with your carrier.

[sms]

Not sure where you are located, but in the U.S. each phone number has a
fixed cost. It's small, but not negligible.

How cellular companies price their service is that they distribute all
the costs among the subscribers. It's irrelevant what the marginal cost
of one additional line is.

[nospam]

In article <sa812c$ahd$2...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Not sure where you are located, but in the U.S. each phone number has a
> fixed cost. It's small, but not negligible.

it's negligible enough to where many apps offer numbers for free.