Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
SE simple to set up?
0 views
Skip to first unread message
Brian Gordon
May 23, 2020, 12:48:54 PM5/23/20
to
I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
involved?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Brian Gordon -->bri...@panix.com<-- brian dot gordon at cox dot net |
+ bgo...@aol.com Bass: NSC Frank Thorne +
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
involved?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Brian Gordon -->bri...@panix.com<-- brian dot gordon at cox dot net |
+ bgo...@aol.com Bass: NSC Frank Thorne +
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joerg Lorenz
May 23, 2020, 12:55:17 PM5/23/20
to
Am 23.05.20 um 18:48 schrieb Brian Gordon:
Before you swap the SIM-card make sure that you backed up either to
iCloud or to your Mac.
Connect the new SE to iCloud and things will be the same as before, just
speedier and snappier.
When everything works as wished disconnect the old SE from the iCloud.
Have fun with your new phone!
Joerg
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
The carrier(s) has nothing to do with the setup of your iPhone.
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
Before you swap the SIM-card make sure that you backed up either to
iCloud or to your Mac.
Connect the new SE to iCloud and things will be the same as before, just
speedier and snappier.
When everything works as wished disconnect the old SE from the iCloud.
Have fun with your new phone!
Joerg
nospam
May 23, 2020, 1:00:33 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rabk5l$fs0$1...@panix3.panix.com>, Brian Gordon
power on the new iphone and it will walk you through the process.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
<bri...@panix.com> wrote:
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
quick start will migrate the old phone to the new one.
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
power on the new iphone and it will walk you through the process.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
nospam
May 23, 2020, 1:00:34 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rabkhk$eq9$1...@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
wrote:
> Am 23.05.20 um 18:48 schrieb Brian Gordon:
> > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > carrier
> > involved?
>
> The carrier(s) has nothing to do with the setup of your iPhone.
> Before you swap the SIM-card make sure that you backed up either to
> iCloud or to your Mac.
backups are important, however that's not required to set up the new
phone since it can directly migrate from the old phone.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
wrote:
> Am 23.05.20 um 18:48 schrieb Brian Gordon:
> > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > carrier
> > involved?
>
> The carrier(s) has nothing to do with the setup of your iPhone.
> Before you swap the SIM-card make sure that you backed up either to
> iCloud or to your Mac.
phone since it can directly migrate from the old phone.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
sms
May 23, 2020, 1:15:52 PM5/23/20
to
On 5/23/2020 9:48 AM, Brian Gordon wrote:
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
to be put into their system.
Joerg Lorenz
May 23, 2020, 1:24:16 PM5/23/20
to
Am 23.05.20 um 19:15 schrieb sms:
For what reason?
That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 1:29:31 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rablo7$lvv$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > carrier
> > involved?
>
> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> to be put into their system.
that happens automatically when the sim is swapped.
> > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > carrier
> > involved?
>
> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> to be put into their system.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 1:29:31 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rabm7v$om7$1...@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
their infrastructure.
carriers may change rate plans for some devices or even ban certain
classes of devices.
however, his claim that the imei must be manually entered is false.
swap the sim and any updating will automatically occur.
wrote:
> >> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> >> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> >> carrier
> >> involved?
> >
> > It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> > to be put into their system.
>
> For what reason?
> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> >> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> >> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> >> carrier
> >> involved?
> >
> > It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> > to be put into their system.
>
> For what reason?
> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
their infrastructure.
carriers may change rate plans for some devices or even ban certain
classes of devices.
however, his claim that the imei must be manually entered is false.
swap the sim and any updating will automatically occur.
sms
May 23, 2020, 1:43:16 PM5/23/20
to
never needed to put the IMEI into their system for GSM devices.
Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
always needed to be registered.
From the Sprint web site at
<https://www.sprint.com/en/shop/bring-your-phone-to-sprint.html?flow=BYOD>:
"Why do you need my device's IMEI number?
The International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number is a 15-digit
serial number that identifies your wireless device. It is important to
have the correct IMEI number for your device registered with Sprint to
ensure that your device can be activated on our network."
Also remember that if you put your SIM card into a phone with a blocked
IMEI it won't work even if the phone is unlocked.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 2:01:49 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rabnbk$14n$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
verizon and sprint have been using sims for years.
actually, sprint uses a uicc, which might need to be replaced for the
new phone.
<https://justaskthales.com/en/what-uicc-and-how-it-different-sim-card/>
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> >> to be put into their system.
> >
> > For what reason?
> > That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
>
> I think that it may be related to CDMA service. IIRC, AT&T and T-Mobile
> never needed to put the IMEI into their system for GSM devices.
> Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
> always needed to be registered.
cdma is dead.
> >> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> >> to be put into their system.
> >
> > For what reason?
> > That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
>
> I think that it may be related to CDMA service. IIRC, AT&T and T-Mobile
> never needed to put the IMEI into their system for GSM devices.
> Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
> always needed to be registered.
verizon and sprint have been using sims for years.
actually, sprint uses a uicc, which might need to be replaced for the
new phone.
<https://justaskthales.com/en/what-uicc-and-how-it-different-sim-card/>
JF Mezei
May 23, 2020, 3:08:05 PM5/23/20
to
On 2020-05-23 13:29, nospam wrote:
>> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
>
> it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> their infrastructure.
The GSM architecture was designed expresslly to seperate device from
>> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
>
> it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> their infrastructure.
service, hence all your indentity is stored in your SIM card. (and in
the past, all your contacts, SMS , phone log etc).
The network does not need your IMEI to function. However, it does see
it, and will check it against stolen phone database and can cut service
if fdound in that database (so better do that when you register service
rather than later).
Knowing your hone model also allows it to send service updates to it,
configured to your phone (for instance whether to enable VoIP if you are
on a supported phone or not).
If it is a new IMEI, the carrier can also sent profile updates to your
phone (such as APN etc). (remember that while the iPhone has carrier
settinsg for most carriers within IOS, other phones don't).
It should be noted that AT&T does request IMEI when you register for
prepaid service.
Blocking service because you use a smartphone on a non smartphone plan
was a means to prevent lawsuits because you got a $50,000 bill of
overages because you didn't realise your non-martphoen plane charged
$1000 per byte. These plans could simply block data alltogether and
truly limit them to voice/SMS.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 3:18:41 PM5/23/20
to
In article <pweyG.133470$zj.1...@fx36.iad>, JF Mezei
for example, a sim with a tablet data-only plan likely will not work in
a phone and vice versa. stolen phones are blacklisted. usb data sticks
usually require a specific plan for data sticks. the list goes on.
> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
nonsense. of course it does.
rest of your crap snipped.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> >> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
> >
> > it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> > their infrastructure.
>
> The GSM architecture was designed expresslly to seperate device from
> service, hence all your indentity is stored in your SIM card. (and in
> the past, all your contacts, SMS , phone log etc).
carriers can (and do) ban devices or restrict them based on imei.
>
> >> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
> >
> > it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> > their infrastructure.
>
> The GSM architecture was designed expresslly to seperate device from
> service, hence all your indentity is stored in your SIM card. (and in
> the past, all your contacts, SMS , phone log etc).
for example, a sim with a tablet data-only plan likely will not work in
a phone and vice versa. stolen phones are blacklisted. usb data sticks
usually require a specific plan for data sticks. the list goes on.
> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
rest of your crap snipped.
Joerg Lorenz
May 23, 2020, 4:58:24 PM5/23/20
to
Am 23.05.20 um 19:43 schrieb sms:
The OP has already a SIM-card. No need for involvement of the Provider.
I do not believe that the provider has to be involved even in the US. In
the European networks it is possible to use another device every day.
That is what I exactely do quite frequently.
The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
Why are you claiming such utter crap?
The OP just asked what precautionary actions have to be taken to switsch
from one iPhone to another.
> Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
> always needed to be registered.
This is/could be a valid technical reason.
> always needed to be registered.
The OP has already a SIM-card. No need for involvement of the Provider.
I do not believe that the provider has to be involved even in the US. In
the European networks it is possible to use another device every day.
That is what I exactely do quite frequently.
The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
Why are you claiming such utter crap?
The OP just asked what precautionary actions have to be taken to switsch
from one iPhone to another.
Joerg Lorenz
May 23, 2020, 4:59:43 PM5/23/20
to
Am 23.05.20 um 19:15 schrieb sms:
involvement of the provider needed.
Joerg Lorenz
May 23, 2020, 5:21:32 PM5/23/20
to
Am 23.05.20 um 19:29 schrieb nospam:
As so often you miss completely the subject of the thread. And the
operaqtor is only interested to know whether the device is data-only or
phone connection+data.
operaqtor is only interested to know whether the device is data-only or
phone connection+data.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 5:44:16 PM5/23/20
to
In article <rac44s$m9r$1...@dont-email.me>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
> And the
> operaqtor is only interested to know whether the device is data-only or
> phone connection+data.
as so often, you are wrong.
the carrier is interested in *much* more than just that.
wrote:
> >
> >>>> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter
> >>>> of
> >>>> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> >>>> carrier
> >>>> involved?
> >>>
> >>> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> >>> to be put into their system.
> >>
> >> For what reason?
> >> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
> >
> > it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> > their infrastructure.
> >
> > carriers may change rate plans for some devices or even ban certain
> > classes of devices.
> >
> > however, his claim that the imei must be manually entered is false.
> >
> > swap the sim and any updating will automatically occur.
>
> As so often you miss completely the subject of the thread.
i haven't missed a thing.
> >
> >>>> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter
> >>>> of
> >>>> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> >>>> carrier
> >>>> involved?
> >>>
> >>> It depends on the carrier. Two, at least in the U.S., require the IMEI
> >>> to be put into their system.
> >>
> >> For what reason?
> >> That is none of their business which phone is using the service.
> >
> > it very definitely is their business since the phone is connecting to
> > their infrastructure.
> >
> > carriers may change rate plans for some devices or even ban certain
> > classes of devices.
> >
> > however, his claim that the imei must be manually entered is false.
> >
> > swap the sim and any updating will automatically occur.
>
> As so often you miss completely the subject of the thread.
> And the
> operaqtor is only interested to know whether the device is data-only or
> phone connection+data.
the carrier is interested in *much* more than just that.
Ant
May 23, 2020, 6:22:22 PM5/23/20
to
made a back up before it dies too.
--
..!.. illness like COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2!
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )
nospam
May 23, 2020, 7:24:44 PM5/23/20
to
In article <582dnUnpnLGEP1TD...@earthlink.com>, Ant
in any event, backups are always a good idea.
<a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> > > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > > carrier
> > > involved?
>
> > quick start will migrate the old phone to the new one.
>
> > power on the new iphone and it will walk you through the process.
>
> > <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
>
> Assuming his old iPhone still works since it is dying. Hopefully, he
> made a back up before it dies too.
dying is not dead.
> > > I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> > > swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get
> > > carrier
> > > involved?
>
> > quick start will migrate the old phone to the new one.
>
> > power on the new iphone and it will walk you through the process.
>
> > <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210216>
>
> Assuming his old iPhone still works since it is dying. Hopefully, he
> made a back up before it dies too.
in any event, backups are always a good idea.
Chris
May 23, 2020, 8:08:18 PM5/23/20
to
Brian Gordon <bri...@panix.com> wrote:
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
Yes. In order to be able use it as a phone and connect to the mobile data
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
network all you need to do is swap the SIM. For everything else to work as
before - apps, documents, settings - you need to back up the old phone and
transfer it to the new phone.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 8:14:28 PM5/23/20
to
In article <racdtf$i9a$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
or use quick start which is both easier and much faster.
JF Mezei
May 23, 2020, 9:12:33 PM5/23/20
to
On 2020-05-23 15:18, nospam wrote:
e a specific plan for data sticks. the list goes on.
>
>> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
>
> nonsense. of course it does.
Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
e a specific plan for data sticks. the list goes on.
>
>> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
>
> nonsense. of course it does.
continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
The fact that some carriers who came from old CDMA or TDMA play games
with IMEI to emulate their old business practices does not change the
fact that at the techical level, the GSM stack is designed with IMEI
independance. It is 100% dependant on the SIM for service.
Where there are now exceptions is VoLTE where the carrier looks at the
IMEI in service to see if voice calls can be made via VoLTE or not (only
supported devices get VolTE service on many carriers, and some carriers
such as in Japan will push their VoLTE config specific to a phone model
when they first see you on their network.
Consider when someone from another country comes in to roam. Their
foreign, unregistered (with local network) handset with their foreign
SIM card works just fine on their network. And if they buy a local SIM
card with prepaid service, they can insert into their handset and
service works just fine. That is how GSM was designed to work and the
whole reason for SIM cards.
in the early days of GSM, SIM cards were credit card sized and handset
had a credit card slot. You could pull the card out, lend your phone to
a friend who woudl put his card in to make calls. Or if your phone ran
out of battery, you could easily borrow someone else's phone to make a
call on you SIM card. Again, back then, EVERYTHING was stored on the SIM
and the handsets had no local storage. (subscription, contacts, phone
log, SMS messages were all on SIM, so moving SIM to another phone moved
100% of your digital belongings).
With phones gaining features beyond telephony (music, photos, games
etc), local storage began to be used, and the GSM contacts database on
the SIM stopped being used (it is limited to name and telephone number,
whereas modern contact apps store name, address, picture etc)
However, in tersm of your relationship with the cellular network, it is
all within the SIM and when you move your SIM to a new phone, you
establish a connection to the network with same credentials, same
encryptio keys etc because theya re all in the SIM card.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 9:31:40 PM5/23/20
to
In article <4SjyG.328792$mf1.2...@fx45.iad>, JF Mezei
> The fact that some carriers who came from old CDMA or TDMA play games
> with IMEI to emulate their old business practices does not change the
> fact that at the techical level, the GSM stack is designed with IMEI
> independance. It is 100% dependant on the SIM for service.
cdma has nothing to do with it.
rest of your ignorant babble snipped.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
> >
> > nonsense. of course it does.
>
>
> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
the imei is required. full stop.
> >
> >> The network does not need your IMEI to function.
> >
> > nonsense. of course it does.
>
>
> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
> The fact that some carriers who came from old CDMA or TDMA play games
> with IMEI to emulate their old business practices does not change the
> fact that at the techical level, the GSM stack is designed with IMEI
> independance. It is 100% dependant on the SIM for service.
rest of your ignorant babble snipped.
JF Mezei
May 23, 2020, 9:59:19 PM5/23/20
to
On 2020-05-23 21:31, nospam wrote:
>> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
>> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
>
> the imei is required. full stop.
Funny how you go accusing all others of being trolls.
>> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
>> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
>
> the imei is required. full stop.
IMSI is what is required and that is a number stored in the SIM card.
The SIM card also transmkits its own ID. The IMEI is eventially
transmitted but it is for informational purposes only, not required for
any communications.
Since you are from Verizon-land, you are confusing the old CDMA with
GSM. CDMA, TDMA and AMPS relied on the telephone identity (IMEI in GSM
terminology). GSM has never relied on it.
Being a hybrid, Verizon still needs some IMEI in order to do the CDMA
connections. And their systems may still be setup to collect it at
registration time even if CDMA has been shut down in some areas (has
it?). But it ahs never been required for GSM.
nospam
May 23, 2020, 10:03:11 PM5/23/20
to
In article <WxkyG.136677$Us2....@fx07.iad>, JF Mezei
> IMSI is what is required and that is a number stored in the SIM card.
> The SIM card also transmkits its own ID. The IMEI is eventially
> transmitted but it is for informational purposes only, not required for
> any communications.
except when it is
> Since you are from Verizon-land, you are confusing the old CDMA with
> GSM. CDMA, TDMA and AMPS relied on the telephone identity (IMEI in GSM
> terminology). GSM has never relied on it.
cdma is dead.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> >> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
> >> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
> >
> > the imei is required. full stop.
>
> Funny how you go accusing all others of being trolls.
nope. just two.
>
> >> Go read the GSM specs. Seperation of service from device was and
> >> continues to be a core architectural design integral to implementation.
> >
> > the imei is required. full stop.
>
> Funny how you go accusing all others of being trolls.
> IMSI is what is required and that is a number stored in the SIM card.
> The SIM card also transmkits its own ID. The IMEI is eventially
> transmitted but it is for informational purposes only, not required for
> any communications.
> Since you are from Verizon-land, you are confusing the old CDMA with
> GSM. CDMA, TDMA and AMPS relied on the telephone identity (IMEI in GSM
> terminology). GSM has never relied on it.
Lewis
May 23, 2020, 10:21:11 PM5/23/20
to
In message <rabk5l$fs0$1...@panix3.panix.com> Brian Gordon <bri...@panix.com> wrote:
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> I now have a dying old SE. If I aquire the new one, is it just a matter of
> swapping in the old SIM card to get it working, or will I have to get carrier
> involved?
shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
keep you from using other SIMs.
With t-mobile I swapped the SIM and transferred everything off the old
phone to the new phone directly. Dead simple and I didn’t have to talk
to anyone.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain. But Trojans won’t arrive on the scene for another
300 years."
sms
May 23, 2020, 10:39:52 PM5/23/20
to
On 5/23/2020 1:58 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 23.05.20 um 19:43 schrieb sms:
>> Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
>> always needed to be registered.
>
> This is/could be a valid technical reason.
> The OP has already a SIM-card. No need for involvement of the Provider.
>
> I do not believe that the provider has to be involved even in the US. In
> the European networks it is possible to use another device every day.
> That is what I exactely do quite frequently.
>
> The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
>
> Why are you claiming such utter crap?
On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> Am 23.05.20 um 19:43 schrieb sms:
>> Remember, pre-LTE, there were no SIM cards for CDMA-only phones and they
>> always needed to be registered.
>
> This is/could be a valid technical reason.
> The OP has already a SIM-card. No need for involvement of the Provider.
>
> I do not believe that the provider has to be involved even in the US. In
> the European networks it is possible to use another device every day.
> That is what I exactely do quite frequently.
>
> The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
>
> Why are you claiming such utter crap?
number. YMMV.
nospam
May 24, 2020, 6:04:56 AM5/24/20
to
In article <racmpn$tft$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
the only reason why they might ask (but not require) is to check if the
device is whitelisted.
verizon has no such requirement:
<https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/how-to-activate-4g-phone-upgrad
e/>
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
> >
> > Why are you claiming such utter crap?
>
> On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> number. YMMV.
which mvno might that be?
> >
> > The IMEI-Number also is absolutely no reason to involve the Provider.
> >
> > Why are you claiming such utter crap?
>
> On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> number. YMMV.
the only reason why they might ask (but not require) is to check if the
device is whitelisted.
verizon has no such requirement:
<https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/how-to-activate-4g-phone-upgrad
e/>
sms
May 24, 2020, 8:55:14 AM5/24/20
to
U.S. the provider _is_ involved. They have their reasons.
On Verizon's prepaid brand, "Visible" a limited subset of
Verizon-compatible phones will work. Many phones that work on Verizon's
MVNOs will not work on Visible (I have three such phones, a Samsung Note
9 and two of Moto X4). It is something related to the firmware in the
phone and the fact that Visible does not support CDMA, only VoLTE.
<https://www.visible.com/help/compatible>. The want to know the IMEI
before they activate the phone.
Some Verizon MVNOs forbid certain non-phone devices that actually would
work if you registered the SIM with an IMEI from a phone then moved the
SIM to a forbidden device, at least until the carrier figured out what
was going on. These are "Mi-Fi" devices or tablets. It's odd because the
MVNOs do finally allow tethering, but I think that their contract with
Verizon limits them to phones only. So they want the IMEI when you sign
up to be sure that the device is not banned from their service.
In the U.S., Verizon has the widest coverage so people put up with all
this. If you're always in a city then you can get by with any of the
three carriers, but if you venture out into less populated and more
remote areas, like National Parks, you really want to stick with
Verizon, especially in the western U.S.. Here's a coverage comparison of
an area we often stay when we go to Yosemite:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/FjBBiC9EDFhNwCjVA> (A=AT&T, S=Sprint,
T=T-Mobile, V=Verizon); though Sprint postpaid customers are able to
roam onto Verizon for calls and texts and some data.
Joerg Lorenz
May 24, 2020, 2:33:54 PM5/24/20
to
Am 24.05.20 um 14:55 schrieb sms:
Sorry but you are completely OT.
JF Mezei
May 24, 2020, 4:45:54 PM5/24/20
to
On 2020-05-23 22:21, Lewis wrote:
> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> keep you from using other SIMs.
If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> keep you from using other SIMs.
since they aren't and haven't paid for it. They only have the power to
lock phones which they purchased.
Apple wouldn't let carrier X lock your phone because Apple knows your
phone was not purchased from X.
JF Mezei
May 24, 2020, 4:47:55 PM5/24/20
to
On 2020-05-23 22:39, sms wrote:
> On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> number. YMMV.
That is because of the CDMA heritage and still running CDMA network.
> On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> number. YMMV.
Remember that prior to Verizon adopting LTE, it did not support any GSM
features, except on certain phones which customer used when roaming
oustide the USA. With deployment of LTE, tghey hgad to go hybrid to
support both the old CDMA tied to a phone and GSM tied to a
subscriptioN/SIM.
nospam
May 24, 2020, 4:50:47 PM5/24/20
to
In article <52ByG.288783$p44.1...@fx05.iad>, JF Mezei
m-card-after-activation/>
AT&T has confirmed in a statement that the new universal Apple
SIM card in iPad Air 2 and iPad mini 3 becomes locked to the
carrier after being activated on its network.
> Apple wouldn't let carrier X lock your phone because Apple knows your
> phone was not purchased from X.
apple has no control over that.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> > shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> > keep you from using other SIMs.
>
> If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> since they aren't and haven't paid for it. They only have the power to
> lock phones which they purchased.
<https://9to5mac.com/2014/10/24/att-confirms-it-locks-ipads-new-apple-si
>
> > Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> > shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> > keep you from using other SIMs.
>
> If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> since they aren't and haven't paid for it. They only have the power to
> lock phones which they purchased.
m-card-after-activation/>
AT&T has confirmed in a statement that the new universal Apple
SIM card in iPad Air 2 and iPad mini 3 becomes locked to the
carrier after being activated on its network.
> Apple wouldn't let carrier X lock your phone because Apple knows your
> phone was not purchased from X.
nospam
May 24, 2020, 4:50:48 PM5/24/20
to
In article <%3ByG.288784$p44....@fx05.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> > number. YMMV.
>
>
> That is because of the CDMA heritage and still running CDMA network.
nope.
> > On my Verizon MVNO they need to know the SIM card number and the IMEI
> > number. YMMV.
>
>
> That is because of the CDMA heritage and still running CDMA network.
Lewis
May 24, 2020, 5:40:45 PM5/24/20
to
In message <52ByG.288783$p44.1...@fx05.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-05-23 22:21, Lewis wrote:
>> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
>> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
>> keep you from using other SIMs.
> If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
> On 2020-05-23 22:21, Lewis wrote:
>> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
>> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
>> keep you from using other SIMs.
> If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
Why this is not a criminal act, I will never know, but I assume they
bribed enough polititians.
Sorry CONTRIBUTED to election warchests.
> They only have the power to lock phones which they purchased.
fuck they want to do, and they do.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
nospam
May 24, 2020, 5:50:01 PM5/24/20
to
In article <slrnrclqet....@ProMini.lan>, Lewis
purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
sim for another company.
i'm not sure if they still do, but verizon refused to activate an apple
sim at all, also defeating the purpose of an apple sim. a verizon sim
is/was required.
such companies need to be boycotted.
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
>
> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
>
> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
>
> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
>
> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
sim for another company.
i'm not sure if they still do, but verizon refused to activate an apple
sim at all, also defeating the purpose of an apple sim. a verizon sim
is/was required.
such companies need to be boycotted.
JF Mezei
May 24, 2020, 7:13:18 PM5/24/20
to
On 2020-05-24 16:50, nospam wrote:
>> Apple wouldn't let carrier X lock your phone because Apple knows your
>> phone was not purchased from X.
>
> apple has no control over that.
Of all the manufactuersr, Apple stands out because the lock status of
>> Apple wouldn't let carrier X lock your phone because Apple knows your
>> phone was not purchased from X.
>
> apple has no control over that.
devices is maintained by Apple in an Apple database. When a carrier
unlocks a phone, it is a transaction between carrier and Apple and Apple
then allows the device to be unlocked when software is reloaded on it.
And you know that.
When AT&T bulk buys from Apple, these serial numbers are marked locked
at time of sale by Apple to AT&T. When when the device is activated,
Apple sees this is a decice locked to AT&T and will send the lock
command. (even if you insert a T-MO SIM).
When you purchase at an Apple store, things are different. The phones in
stock in the back are marked "unlocked" in the Apple database because
Apple doesn't know whether the phone will be sold unlocked, or will be
sold with contract to carriers X Y or Z.
If you buy the phone at full price, the phone,s status remains unchanged
as "unlocked".
If you buy the phone on contract with a carrier with subsidized price,
then Apple will apply the carrier,s locking policy and will/may lock the
phone to that carrier in the Apple database.
This has 2 effects: the phoe now belongs to AT&T and AT&T can
access/change its status in the Apple database (can unlock it).
Secondly, when that device first contacts Apple, it will receive its
updated lock status and become locked to AT&T (or whomever).
Once a phone has been unlocked, the previous onwer no longer has control
over it and cannot relock it. So if AT&T unlocks you phone, they lose
control and can no longer relock it. If a phone was locked to T-Mo, At?T
can't unlcok it or can't change the lock to At&T since it doesn't "own"
the phone in the Apple database.
The unlocking process is done solely by the owner of the lock accessing
the Apple database to change the phone's status, after which the new
status is eventually sent to the phone.
JF Mezei
May 24, 2020, 7:20:26 PM5/24/20
to
On 2020-05-24 17:50, nospam wrote:
> they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> purpose of the apple sim.
Oh, this is TOTALLY different from locking the handset. TOTALLY.
> they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> purpose of the apple sim.
When you get an AT&T SIM card, it was manufacturerd for AT&T and AT*T
(and NSA) have a database of SIM identification numebrs and they keys.
When you subsvribe, you provide the id number and ATT?T already has the
keys to communicate to it and then then remotely program your
subscription ifnroation onto the SIM card.
The Apple scheme is similar except Apple buyts generic SIMs and has all
the info on the SIM card (keys etc). When you subscribe, Apple will
transmit that info to the carrier who is then able to access the card
and programe it with your subscription ifnormation. That card then
belongs to the carrier. The SIM has been "burned" with that Carrier's
info and the carrier has the keys to it. So yes, it is "locked" to that
carrier. But that is just the SIM card, not the device (oPhone, iPad ,
iWatch etc)
nospam
May 24, 2020, 7:32:08 PM5/24/20
to
In article <ZiDyG.111277$gN7....@fx03.iad>, JF Mezei
the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
those who travel (at least, used to).
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
if you choose at&t, the sim is locked to at&t forever.
if you choose sprint or t-mobile, the sim is *not* locked, and you can
switch whenever you want, including to at&t, but that will be the last
time you can switch, as it will be locked upon doing so.
also note the absence of verizon.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> The Apple scheme is similar except Apple buyts generic SIMs and has all
> the info on the SIM card (keys etc). When you subscribe, Apple will
> transmit that info to the carrier who is then able to access the card
> and programe it with your subscription ifnormation. That card then
> belongs to the carrier. The SIM has been "burned" with that Carrier's
> info and the carrier has the keys to it. So yes, it is "locked" to that
> carrier. But that is just the SIM card, not the device (oPhone, iPad ,
> iWatch etc)
nope.
>
> The Apple scheme is similar except Apple buyts generic SIMs and has all
> the info on the SIM card (keys etc). When you subscribe, Apple will
> transmit that info to the carrier who is then able to access the card
> and programe it with your subscription ifnormation. That card then
> belongs to the carrier. The SIM has been "burned" with that Carrier's
> info and the carrier has the keys to it. So yes, it is "locked" to that
> carrier. But that is just the SIM card, not the device (oPhone, iPad ,
> iWatch etc)
the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
those who travel (at least, used to).
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
if you choose at&t, the sim is locked to at&t forever.
if you choose sprint or t-mobile, the sim is *not* locked, and you can
switch whenever you want, including to at&t, but that will be the last
time you can switch, as it will be locked upon doing so.
also note the absence of verizon.
nospam
May 24, 2020, 7:32:09 PM5/24/20
to
In article <hcDyG.172732$AE7....@fx41.iad>, JF Mezei
the carrier decides on lock status.
rest of your babble snipped.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Of all the manufactuersr, Apple stands out because the lock status of
> devices is maintained by Apple in an Apple database.
irrelevant.
> Of all the manufactuersr, Apple stands out because the lock status of
> devices is maintained by Apple in an Apple database.
the carrier decides on lock status.
rest of your babble snipped.
Arlen Holder
May 24, 2020, 8:09:42 PM5/24/20
to
On Sun, 24 May 2020 19:32:09 -0400, nospam wrote:
> the carrier decides on lock status.
Hmmm....
> the carrier decides on lock status.
Long ago, on my first iPhone (a gift for a kid), I jailbroke the iPhone so
that it would work on T-Mobile - where I doubt the carrier had anything to
do with that.
--
Has nospam ever made a claim that didn't parrot Apple MARKETING mantra?
sms
May 25, 2020, 12:36:07 AM5/25/20
to
On 5/24/2020 11:33 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
<snip>
> Sorry but you are completely OT.
LOL, I was trying to explain to you why a SIM swap does not necessarily
work in the U.S., despite your experience in Europe. No one would think
any worse of you if you simply admitted that you were unaware of why
some carriers require the IMEI of devices that you activate on their
network.
<snip>
> Sorry but you are completely OT.
work in the U.S., despite your experience in Europe. No one would think
any worse of you if you simply admitted that you were unaware of why
some carriers require the IMEI of devices that you activate on their
network.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 12:57:07 AM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-24 19:32, nospam wrote:
> the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
> without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
> those who travel (at least, used to).
That was the original intent by Apple.
> the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
> without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
> those who travel (at least, used to).
A SIM card was never meant to be portable across carriers. And a SIM
card has protections against cloning and modification of certain fields
that are in ROM, not NVRAM.
At the time of manufacture, the fixed fields in a SIM card are also
stored in a computer and transmitted to the carrier who ordered the SIM
card. This includes the association of SIM card ID and the keys
assocated with the card. (that is the database the NSA wants from SIM
card manufacturers)
While in Canada, I can insert a blank AT&T SIM card, get on AT&T and
provision it for prepaid service. There is enough on the card to allow
the canadian carrier to send a message to AT&T "hey, I have one of your
blank cards here". And this allows AT&T to send Rogers and then to my
phone the provisioning infor for my account, at which point I have a
phone number etc and can connect via roaming.
It isn't clear to me how the Apple SIM works. Assuming it has an ID,
neutral network code, and encryption keys, one would assume Apple would
have the database of ID, encryption keys etc. So when you use the app
to configure the card to be on AT&T, presumably, Apple would send to
AT&T the ID of the card and the various encryption keys associated with
the key.
**IF** transfering the SIM to someone else results in just the network
code being changed, it woudl mean the new network would receive the
infor about SIM card (keys etc) eithet from Apple or from AT&T.
Ay block of the transfer operayion would be at the Apple app that
changes a SIM card level, not at the GSM level. And if the Apple app
refuses to rewrite info on a SIM that has been configured to AT&T, then
it is a business decision. There is no mechanism to "lock" a SIM to a
etwork becayse they is no mechanism to change the network code in
normal SIM cards since they are permanentl;y assigend to the network
which had the SIM cards made.
The one issue I can see: if the card retains the same ID and keys when
being moved from AT&T to T-Mo, it would require AT&T to delete that info
from its datyabases, and not many carriers agree to do this. And as long
as the card ID remains in the database, it is quite possible that if the
use attempst to connect in an area where there is only AT&T, the netwrok
would recognize the SIM card, and see there is no subscription
associatefd to it anymore and stop there, instead of treating the card
as a T-Mo card and asking T-Mo if it is willing to pay to allow this
user to roamd on AT&T.
On the other hand, if the SIM is *totally* programmable, Apple could
simply give it a new ID, new keys etc and AT&T wouldn't even know about it.
So what media have written about this issue is imcomplete and does not
prob=vide full picture of what is really happening and why AT&T has
asked Apple to write it's app to prevent changing a card from AT&T to
soemone else.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 1:01:31 AM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-25 00:36, sms wrote:
> any worse of you if you simply admitted that you were unaware of why
> some carriers require the IMEI of devices that you activate on their
> network.
>
"require" does not need "won't work without".
> any worse of you if you simply admitted that you were unaware of why
> some carriers require the IMEI of devices that you activate on their
> network.
>
You can enter the IMEI of your old iPhone and insert SIM in new iPhone
and service will work perfectly fine.
They will have logs of you iusong a new IMEI that doesn't match with the
IMEI you entered in the profile and could make the busines decision to
not like you. But that does not mean the IMEI is required to work.
the GSM stack has the IMEI indepedance as a core principle. And US
carriers use the same Ericcson, Huawaei etc providers than other
carriers in the world. They have different manabegtement systems and
that is where they may make business decisions. But at the network
level, the network does not car what IMEI you use.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 1:25:50 AM5/25/20
to
On October 25 2014 @JohnLegere tweeted about the then new Apple SIM.
At the time:
-Devices shipped by Apple to Verizon and Sprint came with Verizon/Sprint
SIM cards. Not Apple SIM
-Devices shipped to T-Mo and AT&T came with Apple SIMs preconfigured to
those networks.
Both Verizon and Sprint required IMEI be in their nwtrok database
(understandable since they are CDMA carriers).
The "Blank" Apple SIM were not available at the time to carriers but
were available at stores.
Those tweets contain no information on exactly how the card works and
what is involved in programming a SIM to be on one specific network when
it is blank, and what is involved to reprogram a card from one network
to another.
So at the time, buying that iPad from Apple was the only way to get a
blank App]le SIM where you could then choose between AT&T or T-Mo, or
haggle with Verizon to have them add your IMEI to their database.
Until the info on why reprogramming a SIM from AT&T to T-Mo was blocked,
and why AT&T also didn't want to get Apple SIM assigned to )Mo
reprogrammed to AT&T, it is hard to understand exactly what was happening.
(and what the actual situation is today).
The Apple SIM is apparaently available in Canada, so perhaps I can
inquire on how it works.
At the time:
-Devices shipped by Apple to Verizon and Sprint came with Verizon/Sprint
SIM cards. Not Apple SIM
-Devices shipped to T-Mo and AT&T came with Apple SIMs preconfigured to
those networks.
Both Verizon and Sprint required IMEI be in their nwtrok database
(understandable since they are CDMA carriers).
The "Blank" Apple SIM were not available at the time to carriers but
were available at stores.
Those tweets contain no information on exactly how the card works and
what is involved in programming a SIM to be on one specific network when
it is blank, and what is involved to reprogram a card from one network
to another.
So at the time, buying that iPad from Apple was the only way to get a
blank App]le SIM where you could then choose between AT&T or T-Mo, or
haggle with Verizon to have them add your IMEI to their database.
Until the info on why reprogramming a SIM from AT&T to T-Mo was blocked,
and why AT&T also didn't want to get Apple SIM assigned to )Mo
reprogrammed to AT&T, it is hard to understand exactly what was happening.
(and what the actual situation is today).
The Apple SIM is apparaently available in Canada, so perhaps I can
inquire on how it works.
Joerg Lorenz
May 25, 2020, 5:47:50 AM5/25/20
to
Am 25.05.20 um 06:36 schrieb sms:
As I said: The OP has a SIM-card and an iPhone sends the IMEI over the
network automatically. We are enot discussing your remote scenario.
You seem to understand nothing at all.
network automatically. We are enot discussing your remote scenario.
You seem to understand nothing at all.
nospam
May 25, 2020, 8:24:24 AM5/25/20
to
In article <DeIyG.273871$Ff6.1...@fx40.iad>, JF Mezei
>
> It isn't clear to me how the Apple SIM works.
that much is very clear.
> Assuming it has
there you go again.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
> > without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
> > those who travel (at least, used to).
>
> That was the original intent by Apple.
and it works, except when carriers like at&t fuck with it.
>
> > the point of an apple sim is to easily switch carriers at any time
> > without needing to obtain another sim. this is particularly useful for
> > those who travel (at least, used to).
>
> That was the original intent by Apple.
>
> It isn't clear to me how the Apple SIM works.
> Assuming it has
there you go again.
nospam
May 25, 2020, 8:24:25 AM5/25/20
to
In article <yFIyG.313102$yo4.1...@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
> -Devices shipped to T-Mo and AT&T came with Apple SIMs preconfigured to
> those networks.
an apple sim was not preconfigured to anything.
it's only configured *if* the user activates cellular service, and can
be reconfigured at any time should the user cancel and choose another
carrier.
except for at&t, who somehow locked the sim, forcing the user to get a
new sim should they want to change, completely defeating the purpose.
that's yet another reason why at&t should be avoided.
> Both Verizon and Sprint required IMEI be in their nwtrok database
correct, and they still do, although that may change with the
t-mobile/sprint merger.
it also doesn't matter since all ipads that came with an apple sim were
whitelisted for both sprint & verizon. ipads that came with a verizon
sim were whitelisted for verizon, and the same for a sprint sim.
verizon ipads came with a verizon sim because verizon did not have the
interests of the customer as a priority.
what's worse is that if the device had been initially activated on
another carrier, it could not be activated on verizon, despite it being
unlocked and whitelisted. however, a verizon sim that had been
activated in another device could be swapped to it.
that's yet another reason why verizon should be avoided.
> (understandable since they are CDMA carriers).
cdma is dead.
you still have a stick up your ass about cdma. get over it.
> The "Blank" Apple SIM were not available at the time to carriers but
> were available at stores.
of course not. why would an apple sim be available at a carrier?
replacement apple sims were available at apple stores.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> At the time:
> -Devices shipped by Apple to Verizon and Sprint came with Verizon/Sprint
> SIM cards. Not Apple SIM
false. only verizon included a verizon sim.
> At the time:
> -Devices shipped by Apple to Verizon and Sprint came with Verizon/Sprint
> SIM cards. Not Apple SIM
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
> -Devices shipped to T-Mo and AT&T came with Apple SIMs preconfigured to
> those networks.
it's only configured *if* the user activates cellular service, and can
be reconfigured at any time should the user cancel and choose another
carrier.
except for at&t, who somehow locked the sim, forcing the user to get a
new sim should they want to change, completely defeating the purpose.
that's yet another reason why at&t should be avoided.
> Both Verizon and Sprint required IMEI be in their nwtrok database
t-mobile/sprint merger.
it also doesn't matter since all ipads that came with an apple sim were
whitelisted for both sprint & verizon. ipads that came with a verizon
sim were whitelisted for verizon, and the same for a sprint sim.
verizon ipads came with a verizon sim because verizon did not have the
interests of the customer as a priority.
what's worse is that if the device had been initially activated on
another carrier, it could not be activated on verizon, despite it being
unlocked and whitelisted. however, a verizon sim that had been
activated in another device could be swapped to it.
that's yet another reason why verizon should be avoided.
> (understandable since they are CDMA carriers).
you still have a stick up your ass about cdma. get over it.
> The "Blank" Apple SIM were not available at the time to carriers but
> were available at stores.
replacement apple sims were available at apple stores.
Lewis
May 25, 2020, 11:56:27 AM5/25/20
to
In message <240520201750006888%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <slrnrclqet....@ProMini.lan>, Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
>> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
>> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
>>
>> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
>> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
>>
>> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
>> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
>> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
> they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
> sim for another company.
They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
> In article <slrnrclqet....@ProMini.lan>, Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
>> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
>> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
>>
>> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
>> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
>>
>> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
>> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
>> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
> they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
> sim for another company.
> i'm not sure if they still do, but verizon refused to activate an apple
> sim at all, also defeating the purpose of an apple sim. a verizon sim
> is/was required.
> such companies need to be boycotted.
--
'It's a lovely morning, lads,' he said. 'I feel like a million
dollars. Don't you?' There was a murmur of reluctant agreement.
'Good,' said Cohen. 'Let's go and get some.' --Interesting Times
nospam
May 25, 2020, 12:20:00 PM5/25/20
to
In article <slrnrcnqla....@ProMini.lan>, Lewis
<https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/att-verizon-face-doj-invest
igation-for-allegedly-trying-to-lock-esims/>
...eSIMs are supposed to let customers switch carriers without
changing to a different SIM card or device, but AT&T and Verizon
are accused of "try[ing] to establish standards that would allow them
to lock a device to their network even if it had eSIM technology,"
the Times report said.
verizon is also locking phones in violation of fcc rules, but since
ijit ź used to be a lawyer for verizon, they get away with it and a
whole lot more.
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> >> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> >> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
> >>
> >> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> >> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
> >>
> >> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
> >> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
> >> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
>
> > they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> > purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
> > sim for another company.
>
> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
i forgot about that. they're scummier than i thought.
> >> >> Depends on the carrier. Some require you to contact them (usually the
> >> >> shitty ones like AT&T so they can lock your phone to their network to
> >> >> keep you from using other SIMs.
> >>
> >> > If youa re bringing your own phone, a carrier has no business locking it
> >> > since they aren't and haven't paid for it.
> >>
> >> Doesn't stop the world's shittiest cell phone company from doing this.
> >> In fact, IIRC when they lock you cellular iPad they will not, under and
> >> circumstances, ever unlock it. It is tied to AT&T forever.
>
> > they just locked the apple sim to at&t, completely defeating the
> > purpose of the apple sim. it can still be removed and replaced with a
> > sim for another company.
>
> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
<https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/att-verizon-face-doj-invest
igation-for-allegedly-trying-to-lock-esims/>
...eSIMs are supposed to let customers switch carriers without
changing to a different SIM card or device, but AT&T and Verizon
are accused of "try[ing] to establish standards that would allow them
to lock a device to their network even if it had eSIM technology,"
the Times report said.
verizon is also locking phones in violation of fcc rules, but since
ijit ź used to be a lawyer for verizon, they get away with it and a
whole lot more.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 3:42:12 PM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-25 08:24, nospam wrote:
> false. only verizon included a verizon sim.
> false. only verizon included a verizon sim.
> an apple sim was not preconfigured to anything.
I was quoting 2014 Tweets from John legere in explaining why people
couldn't easily change to T-Mobile with those fancy cards.
> it's only configured *if* the user activates cellular service, and can
> be reconfigured at any time should the user cancel and choose another
> carrier.
pre-configured to that carrier, only those sold at Apple store were
vanilla Apple SIMs that could go to any carrier, except the CDMA
carriers required the IMEI be in their database so you couldn't just
configure the Apple SIM.
Again, all from 2014.
> except for at&t, who somehow locked the sim,
AT&T locked the SIM. They may have had a deal with Apple to prevent the
IOS app from reprogramming an Apple SIM already programmed to AT&T.
> correct, and they still do, although that may change with the
> t-mobile/sprint merger.
coverage and T-Mo didn't. Once that is done, all new activations can be
GSM only and no IMEI needed and no ability to connect to CDMA which
would only support those with existing phones.
> it also doesn't matter since all ipads that came with an apple sim were
> whitelisted for both sprint & verizon. ipads that came with a verizon
> sim were whitelisted for verizon, and the same for a sprint sim.
automatically gets the IMEI of those phones for its database (and can
implement whatever locking poilicy it wants).
And when Apple stores sells a retail phone that is being attached to a
Verizon contract, then the apple employee acts as a reseller for Verizon
and implemehts those same policies on behalf pf Verizon, just like any
kiosks in a shopping mall would.
> cdma is dead.
As long as CDMA is up and running at Verizon and Sprint it isn't dead.
If someone activates with an older phone not able to do VoLTE, they
still need to activate the CDMA portion on the phone. (or el cheapo
voice only CDMA phone). Remember, there are also MVNOs to deal with.
I goes this way;
-stop selling phones that need CDMA
-stop activating used phones that need CDMA
-make offers to those who still have CDMA phones
-turn off CDMA.
In the case of T-Mobile, this will be far faster because T-Mo wants to
migrate surviving Sprint towers to its own network and turn off Sprint
towers that are duplication of existing T-Mo ones. So thye first 3 steps
will happen start on the day the deal is signed.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 3:47:01 PM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-25 11:56, Lewis wrote:
> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
How can they prevent an e-Sim from being deleted?
> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
If that is the case, it is severely anti-competitive as it woudl amount
to locking handset to AT?T even though the handset was purchased
unlocked and the carrier has no lien on handset.
There is no point in changing an e-sim since it doesn't reside on a SIM
card and can just be zapped from NVRAM and a totally unrelared new one
loaded.
Apple allowed AT&T SIMs to cause the iPhone to disable/hide the menu to
search for available networks. Bad boy. If Apple allowed AT?T to
really pour AT&T e-sSIM into concrete and even unable to remove them,
then Apple is the really bad boy because that is an IOS feature under
Apple's control. That would be tantamount to allowing AT&T physical SIM
cards to be coated with epoxy which is actuvated to cure once inserted
into a phone.
nospam
May 25, 2020, 4:24:38 PM5/25/20
to
In article <ncVyG.159838$2e3.1...@fx35.iad>, JF Mezei
note the carrier at the bottom of the list:
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
verizon is missing from the list. they were the only ones who didn't
support the apple sim.
> > it's only configured *if* the user activates cellular service, and can
> > be reconfigured at any time should the user cancel and choose another
> > carrier.
>
> Legere specified that units shipped to a carrier had the Apple SIMs
> pre-configured to that carrier, only those sold at Apple store were
> vanilla Apple SIMs that could go to any carrier, except the CDMA
> carriers required the IMEI be in their database so you couldn't just
> configure the Apple SIM.
ipads shipped to t-mobile had a t-mobile sim.
the only way to get an apple sim was buy the ipad from apple.
> > except for at&t, who somehow locked the sim,
>
> Without knowing how the Apple SIM really worked, you can't state that
> AT&T locked the SIM. They may have had a deal with Apple to prevent the
> IOS app from reprogramming an Apple SIM already programmed to AT&T.
yes i can, since it was widely reported.
<https://9to5mac.com/2014/10/24/att-confirms-it-locks-ipads-new-apple-si
m-card-after-activation/>
AT&T has confirmed in a statement that the new universal Apple
SIM card in iPad Air 2 and iPad mini 3 becomes locked to the
carrier after being activated on its network.
anyone who chose at&t was forever locked to at&t and could no longer
choose any other carrier without replacing the apple sim.
> > correct, and they still do, although that may change with the
> > t-mobile/sprint merger.
>
> All depends on how fast T-Mo deploys GSM in areas where Sprint has
> coverage and T-Mo didn't. Once that is done, all new activations can be
> GSM only and no IMEI needed and no ability to connect to CDMA which
> would only support those with existing phones.
gsm is dead, along with cdma.
both t-mobile and sprint have been using lte for *years*.
the only issue is to merge the two systems, so that sprint devices now
use t-mobile bands and vice versa. they also need to combine billing
and renovate the stores.
>
> > cdma is dead.
>
> As long as CDMA is up and running at Verizon and Sprint it isn't dead.
> If someone activates with an older phone not able to do VoLTE, they
> still need to activate the CDMA portion on the phone. (or el cheapo
> voice only CDMA phone). Remember, there are also MVNOs to deal with.
what part cdma is dead is not clear??
cdma is no longer used except for those who have very old phones that
do not have lte at all, phones that date back a decade or more.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> I was quoting 2014 Tweets from John legere in explaining why people
> couldn't easily change to T-Mobile with those fancy cards.
yes they could.
> I was quoting 2014 Tweets from John legere in explaining why people
> couldn't easily change to T-Mobile with those fancy cards.
note the carrier at the bottom of the list:
<https://i.insider.com/54413df36bb3f714696dbf37>
verizon is missing from the list. they were the only ones who didn't
support the apple sim.
> > it's only configured *if* the user activates cellular service, and can
> > be reconfigured at any time should the user cancel and choose another
> > carrier.
>
> Legere specified that units shipped to a carrier had the Apple SIMs
> pre-configured to that carrier, only those sold at Apple store were
> vanilla Apple SIMs that could go to any carrier, except the CDMA
> carriers required the IMEI be in their database so you couldn't just
> configure the Apple SIM.
the only way to get an apple sim was buy the ipad from apple.
> > except for at&t, who somehow locked the sim,
>
> Without knowing how the Apple SIM really worked, you can't state that
> AT&T locked the SIM. They may have had a deal with Apple to prevent the
> IOS app from reprogramming an Apple SIM already programmed to AT&T.
<https://9to5mac.com/2014/10/24/att-confirms-it-locks-ipads-new-apple-si
m-card-after-activation/>
AT&T has confirmed in a statement that the new universal Apple
SIM card in iPad Air 2 and iPad mini 3 becomes locked to the
carrier after being activated on its network.
choose any other carrier without replacing the apple sim.
> > correct, and they still do, although that may change with the
> > t-mobile/sprint merger.
>
> All depends on how fast T-Mo deploys GSM in areas where Sprint has
> coverage and T-Mo didn't. Once that is done, all new activations can be
> GSM only and no IMEI needed and no ability to connect to CDMA which
> would only support those with existing phones.
both t-mobile and sprint have been using lte for *years*.
the only issue is to merge the two systems, so that sprint devices now
use t-mobile bands and vice versa. they also need to combine billing
and renovate the stores.
>
> > cdma is dead.
>
> As long as CDMA is up and running at Verizon and Sprint it isn't dead.
> If someone activates with an older phone not able to do VoLTE, they
> still need to activate the CDMA portion on the phone. (or el cheapo
> voice only CDMA phone). Remember, there are also MVNOs to deal with.
cdma is no longer used except for those who have very old phones that
do not have lte at all, phones that date back a decade or more.
Lewis
May 25, 2020, 4:37:33 PM5/25/20
to
In message <VgVyG.388028$Xk.3...@fx46.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-05-25 11:56, Lewis wrote:
>> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
> How can they prevent an e-Sim from being deleted?
> If that is the case, it is severely anti-competitive as it woudl amount
> to locking handset to AT?T even though the handset was purchased
> unlocked and the carrier has no lien on handset.
Really? That is shocking! How clever of you to figure this our mere
> On 2020-05-25 11:56, Lewis wrote:
>> They lock the eSIM as well, and you cannot remove or unlock it.
> How can they prevent an e-Sim from being deleted?
> If that is the case, it is severely anti-competitive as it woudl amount
> to locking handset to AT?T even though the handset was purchased
> unlocked and the carrier has no lien on handset.
YEARS after everyone else has. How many times in those years have you
made ignorant and wrong claims about how carriers cannot do this and
cannot lock devices you purchased outright? Why, just this week.
--
And what group was that, Gail? The Menstrual Cycles.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 5:30:36 PM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-25 16:24, nospam wrote:
> ipads shipped to t-mobile had a t-mobile sim.
According to John Legere, they shipped with an Apple SIM provisioned to
> ipads shipped to t-mobile had a t-mobile sim.
T-Mobile but which could be changed to another carrier.
UNits shipped to AT&T had the Apple SIM pre-provisioend to AT&T (which
is stupiod if it coudln't be changed).
units shipped to Verizon had Verizon SIMs , not Apple SIMs.
Can't rememebr what he said about Sprint (whether they have Sprint SIMs,
or Apple SIMs provisioned to Sprint).
Blank Apple SIMs were only avauilable at Apple stores. As per October
25 2014 tweets by John Legere.
> yes i can, since it was widely reported.
The reporting never explained how the Apple SIM card works so it cannot
state what is locked. All that is explained is that the Apple supplied
application would grey out AT&T as a choice to configure an already
configured Apple SIM, and grey out all choices if the SIM was configured
to AT&T.
Whether the functiionality to prevent an Apple SIM provisions to AT&T
from being changed was done inside the SIM card or by the app that
provisions the card, it doesn't matter because that is a functioality
that was provided by Apple.
GSM has provided facilities to lock a handset
-to a particular SIM card
-to a netowrk
-to a country
#2 is the most widely known.
There is no facility to lock a "SIM" card itself since SIM cards were
never meant to be re-programmed.
So how Apple gave AT&T the ability to prevent something an Apple
provided app does is between Apple and AT&T. But I am still inetrested
in how this was done.
> gsm is dead, along with cdma.
protocols, and Veriozon wouldn't have joined the GSM association when it
started to have SIM cards if GSM were dead.
At the regulatory level for instance, Canada mandated roaming on GSM
networks not what was left of CDMA at the time of ruling, and it was
used specifically to include both 3G and 4G.
> both t-mobile and sprint have been using lte for *years*.
handsets sold. VolTE is still enabled handset model by handset model.
So if you get on Sprint with a handset not supported by Sprint, you risk
not being able to do voice. (think roaming customer).
> the only issue is to merge the two systems, so that sprint devices now
> use t-mobile bands and vice versa.
of its MVNOs need to be replaced before CDMA can be shut. And that is
the short term "urgent" challenge for t-mobile so it can shut CDMA
alltogether.
Note that Print has never succeeded in integrating networks and kept
Nextel up and separate for years and years and years.
In the case of Bell and Telus in Canada, it took them about 9 years from
he time they lit up their GSM network (with HSPA/UMTS) until the last
CDMA tower was shutdown. That was due to a large extent to embedded
devices. However, as the writing has been on the wall for CDMA since
roughly 2010, this has given plenty of time for embedded devices to be
updated (and GM updated its OnStar systems during those 10 years) so
there is likely a lot less still attached to CDMA, so it won't take that
long for T-Mo to shut Sprint's CDMA.
> cdma is no longer used except for those who have very old phones that
> do not have lte at all, phones that date back a decade or more.
JF Mezei
May 25, 2020, 6:00:20 PM5/25/20
to
On 2020-05-25 16:37, Lewis wrote:
> Really? That is shocking! How clever of you to figure this our mere
> YEARS after everyone else has.
Please explain to me why Apple would build its e-SIM software to prevent
> Really? That is shocking! How clever of you to figure this our mere
> YEARS after everyone else has.
a SIM card from (virtually( be removed from a phone? There is something
really really fishy there.
That is akin to a SIM lock where the phone is locked to a specific SIM
card (as opposed to being locked to any SIM card of a particular
network). And the only times this type of lock was used was by the owner
of the phone (think dad locking kid's photo to a specific SIM attached
to a serviec with restrictions, preventing kid from getting a sim from a
gfroend that doesn't have restrictions)
nospam
May 25, 2020, 6:20:08 PM5/25/20
to
In article <%NWyG.172897$AE7....@fx41.iad>, JF Mezei
ipads shipped to carriers normally had their own sims because they did
not want you to switch to another carrier.
i'm pretty sure that included t-mobile, but if those had an apple sim,
all the better, since that meant that users could switch to another
carrier if they wanted without needing to obtain another sim.
> Can't rememebr what he said about Sprint (whether they have Sprint SIMs,
> or Apple SIMs provisioned to Sprint).
they had a sprint sim, which is really a uicc.
>
> The reporting never explained how the Apple SIM card works so it cannot
> state what is locked.
there is no need to know how it worked.
the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
on the other hand, if you chose sprint or t-mobile, the sim was not
locked and you could switch at any time. if you traveled, then any
international carrier that supported apple sims would also work, which
eliminated the need to find a suitable sim upon arrival.
as long as you never chose at&t, you could switch as many times as you
wanted, whenever you wanted, but the moment you chose at&t, you were
stuck with it because at&t locked the sim while others did not.
oh, and at&t also sim-locked prepaid phones too. the sim in the package
would only work with the phone in which it was activated, which had to
be a certain type of device, and they intentionally blocked
smartphones.
> All that is explained is that the Apple supplied
> application would grey out AT&T as a choice to configure an already
> configured Apple SIM, and grey out all choices if the SIM was configured
> to AT&T.
in other words, it's locked to at&t.
you're catching on, slowly.
> > gsm is dead, along with cdma.
>
> 2G, GPRS/EDGE, HSPA/UMTS, LTE, VoLTE and now 5G are all part of GSM
> protocols, and Veriozon wouldn't have joined the GSM association when it
> started to have SIM cards if GSM were dead.
gsm refers to 2g. hspa is 3g. lte is 4g.
>
> > both t-mobile and sprint have been using lte for *years*.
>
> But VoLTE is far more recent in terms of being a requirement for all new
> handsets sold. VolTE is still enabled handset model by handset model.
> So if you get on Sprint with a handset not supported by Sprint, you risk
> not being able to do voice. (think roaming customer).
false.
volte has been widespread for *years*.
> > the only issue is to merge the two systems, so that sprint devices now
> > use t-mobile bands and vice versa.
>
> handsets that still rely on CDMA for voice and/or data on Sprint or any
> of its MVNOs need to be replaced before CDMA can be shut. And that is
> the short term "urgent" challenge for t-mobile so it can shut CDMA
> alltogether.
there are very, very few such devices still in use.
> Note that Print has never succeeded in integrating networks and kept
> Nextel up and separate for years and years and years.
nope. sprint transitioned to their own push to talk system, although it
wasn't very good.
> > cdma is no longer used except for those who have very old phones that
> > do not have lte at all, phones that date back a decade or more.
>
> So you admit it isn't dead.
it doesn't need to be zero to be dead.
film is dead, even though there's an extremely tiny minority who still
shoot film. there is no money in film anymore. camera makers abandoned
it long ago. kodak went bankrupt. polaroid is just a name that can be
put on a variety of products.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> > ipads shipped to t-mobile had a t-mobile sim.
>
> According to John Legere, they shipped with an Apple SIM provisioned to
> T-Mobile but which could be changed to another carrier.
>
> UNits shipped to AT&T had the Apple SIM pre-provisioend to AT&T (which
> is stupiod if it coudln't be changed).
>
> units shipped to Verizon had Verizon SIMs , not Apple SIMs.
ipads with apple sims were available from apple.
> > ipads shipped to t-mobile had a t-mobile sim.
>
> According to John Legere, they shipped with an Apple SIM provisioned to
> T-Mobile but which could be changed to another carrier.
>
> UNits shipped to AT&T had the Apple SIM pre-provisioend to AT&T (which
> is stupiod if it coudln't be changed).
>
> units shipped to Verizon had Verizon SIMs , not Apple SIMs.
ipads shipped to carriers normally had their own sims because they did
not want you to switch to another carrier.
i'm pretty sure that included t-mobile, but if those had an apple sim,
all the better, since that meant that users could switch to another
carrier if they wanted without needing to obtain another sim.
> Can't rememebr what he said about Sprint (whether they have Sprint SIMs,
> or Apple SIMs provisioned to Sprint).
>
> The reporting never explained how the Apple SIM card works so it cannot
> state what is locked.
the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
on the other hand, if you chose sprint or t-mobile, the sim was not
locked and you could switch at any time. if you traveled, then any
international carrier that supported apple sims would also work, which
eliminated the need to find a suitable sim upon arrival.
as long as you never chose at&t, you could switch as many times as you
wanted, whenever you wanted, but the moment you chose at&t, you were
stuck with it because at&t locked the sim while others did not.
oh, and at&t also sim-locked prepaid phones too. the sim in the package
would only work with the phone in which it was activated, which had to
be a certain type of device, and they intentionally blocked
smartphones.
> All that is explained is that the Apple supplied
> application would grey out AT&T as a choice to configure an already
> configured Apple SIM, and grey out all choices if the SIM was configured
> to AT&T.
you're catching on, slowly.
> > gsm is dead, along with cdma.
>
> 2G, GPRS/EDGE, HSPA/UMTS, LTE, VoLTE and now 5G are all part of GSM
> protocols, and Veriozon wouldn't have joined the GSM association when it
> started to have SIM cards if GSM were dead.
>
> > both t-mobile and sprint have been using lte for *years*.
>
> But VoLTE is far more recent in terms of being a requirement for all new
> handsets sold. VolTE is still enabled handset model by handset model.
> So if you get on Sprint with a handset not supported by Sprint, you risk
> not being able to do voice. (think roaming customer).
volte has been widespread for *years*.
> > the only issue is to merge the two systems, so that sprint devices now
> > use t-mobile bands and vice versa.
>
> handsets that still rely on CDMA for voice and/or data on Sprint or any
> of its MVNOs need to be replaced before CDMA can be shut. And that is
> the short term "urgent" challenge for t-mobile so it can shut CDMA
> alltogether.
> Note that Print has never succeeded in integrating networks and kept
> Nextel up and separate for years and years and years.
wasn't very good.
> > cdma is no longer used except for those who have very old phones that
> > do not have lte at all, phones that date back a decade or more.
>
> So you admit it isn't dead.
film is dead, even though there's an extremely tiny minority who still
shoot film. there is no money in film anymore. camera makers abandoned
it long ago. kodak went bankrupt. polaroid is just a name that can be
put on a variety of products.
nospam
May 25, 2020, 6:20:09 PM5/25/20
to
In article <TdXyG.155361$FY5....@fx39.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> That is akin to a SIM lock where the phone is locked to a specific SIM
> card (as opposed to being locked to any SIM card of a particular
> network). And the only times this type of lock was used was by the owner
> of the phone (think dad locking kid's photo to a specific SIM attached
> to a serviec with restrictions, preventing kid from getting a sim from a
> gfroend that doesn't have restrictions)
at&t did that too.
> That is akin to a SIM lock where the phone is locked to a specific SIM
> card (as opposed to being locked to any SIM card of a particular
> network). And the only times this type of lock was used was by the owner
> of the phone (think dad locking kid's photo to a specific SIM attached
> to a serviec with restrictions, preventing kid from getting a sim from a
> gfroend that doesn't have restrictions)
JF Mezei
May 26, 2020, 12:56:28 AM5/26/20
to
On 2020-05-25 18:20, nospam wrote:
>
> there is no need to know how it worked.
>
> the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
> at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
Understanding how the APPLE SIM (physical) works or worked is important
>
> there is no need to know how it worked.
>
> the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
> at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
n trying to understand hos"why AT&T worked the way it did.
If this was a purely NVRAM storage for an e-sim it is quite different
from an actual SIM card provisions to a MMC/MNC belonging to Apple and
then provisioned with carrier X as not only prefered partnert but also
considered "home" carrier.
Apparently, an e-SIM is not a virtualized SIM card, but the same as the
physical Apple SIM, except permamnently soldered into the phone. So
understanding how it works matters.
Does AT&T play the same tricks with an Apple Watch which an never leave
AT&T once its eSIM has been attached to AT?T ?
It all depends whether the "neutral" SIM card is actually a real SIM
card and Apple gives the network the info needed to manage that card
(its ID, encryption keys etc), or whether the SIM remains Apple's SIM
and only sees AT&T as a home network, or whether the card is truly
empty, and the carrier which adiopts it feeds it with a complete new SIM
card, including the SIM ID, encryption keys etc.
Until one understand hhow it is implemented, you can't understand how
AT&T or others can place a lock on it, or whether this lock is purely in
the IOS app written by Apple bcause AT&T bribed Apple to enforce those
restrictions.
> gsm refers to 2g. hspa is 3g. lte is 4g.
addition to the GSM protocol. Evolving GPRS to EDGE was evolution of GSM
protocol. UMTS/HSPA was a new version of the GSM protocol, and provided
for seamless trasistion of phone calls from 2G to 3G.
In the early GSM, there was no support for AMPS, so early handsets in
canada which had an APMS add on to allow phones to roam outside of
limited GSM footprint, you would lose call when switching from GSM to
AMPS and vice versa.
But when Bell moved from 2G CDMA to 3G GSM, it did not have that
seamless call transition because it wasnt moving within the GSM family.
Similarly, within the GSM family, you could use data and voice at same
tim. This was true of GPRS/EDVE and HSPA days, and for the 4G/3G days,
when you made a voice call, your connection switched to 3G in order to
use UMTS for voice call, but your data connection was maintained.
And "LTE"'s last letter is for Evolution, and was evolution from 3G GSM.
The protocol is part of GSM association protocol.
North America was about 6 years late on digital telephony and most
carriers decided on old TDMA or proprietary CDMA, with a few using
proven GSM tech which had been in use worldwide for many years already.
Verizon and Sprint dipped into the GSM family only once phones started
to allow both CDMA and GSM and made it possile for their customers to
start to roam outside of USA with a GSM SIM card. The introduction of
LTE requred a SIM card because that is how GSM provisions service and
has done so since 2G days.
Keys have grown since 2G so you need more modern SIM cards to connect to
an LTE network compared to a 2G network, but that SIM card that lets you
connect to a 4G GSM (LTE) servive lets you connect to a 2G GSM service
if it still runs and if your phone still supports it.
nospam
May 26, 2020, 2:54:49 AM5/26/20
to
In article <%j1zG.218969$cJ2.1...@fx47.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> >
> > there is no need to know how it worked.
> >
> > the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
> > at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
>
> Understanding how the APPLE SIM (physical) works or worked is important
> n trying to understand hos"why AT&T worked the way it did.
the why is because at&t is a sleazy company.
> >
> > there is no need to know how it worked.
> >
> > the fact is that the moment you chose at&t, you were forever stuck with
> > at&t unless you obtained a replacement sim.
>
> Understanding how the APPLE SIM (physical) works or worked is important
> n trying to understand hos"why AT&T worked the way it did.
0 new messages